#talia & renee

[jokey05]

I genuinely think that by some paradox DC was WAY more inclusive and "woke" in the '90 than now. Like so many POC characters, the firsts queer relationship in comics, many more disabled characters and representation than today. Not all of them were written well, mind you, but at least they were doing something instead of just showing up during Pride moth and then disappearing in limbo forever after a couple of cheesy lines. And we are not talking enough of all the disabilities erasure in the last years.

[theflashjaygarrick]

How it feels right now as a Batman comic reader

[punch-aholic]

Practice part 2, girls this time!

You can see the boys here

[2004hitalbumsevenswans]

I really enjoyed Batman: Caped Crusader. I was worried (like everyone else) that Bruce Timm would push his Bruce/Barbara obsession, but they barely interact when Bruce is out of costume, and he’s all business as Batman. Barbara is (presumably) about the same age as Bruce in this adaptation, she’s a young public defender, who still lives at home with her dad. Commissioner Gordon is mentioned to have 30 years on the Gotham police force at one point. And the series is loosely based on Batman: Year One by Frank Miller, and has Matt Reeves as a producer. It’s definitely an interpretation of the early years of Batman.

The setting is vaguely and aesthetically set in the 1940s, mirroring the original Batman and riffing on DC comic stories and character interpretations from that time. Clayface’s story and appearance is based on the original interpretation of the character, which I really enjoyed - especially as someone’s who’s read the first couple years of the original Detective Comics/Batman stories. (There’s also a lot of great references to the Adam West show, and a couple of its themes are reimagined for this more noir story.)

I could see the series setting up something between Bruce and Barbara potentially, but their interactions are really blink-and-you’ll-miss-it. There’s a moment where Bruce’s is climbing back onto the Iceberg Lounge yacht and he uses a pick up line on her, which she scoffs at, then he proceeds to use the line on two other young women. There’s another moment that you could say is pre-flirting, or is at least setting up a foundation to further a relationship between the two. Where Barbara makes a comment about Batman letting himself into her office unannounced whenever he feels like it, and she tells him she needs a way to contact him, and he gives her the Batphone number. At this point I think you could make more of an argument for a Harleen/Barbara pairing than her and Bruce.

I think the characters would both individually need a lot more development to be in a romantic relationship. I’ll say this even though I know it will be an unpopular opinion: in this interpretation I wouldn’t mind putting Bruce and Barbara together. I know that’s practically sacrilege coming from someone who’s favourite character is Oracle but hear me out.

My main issues with Bruce and Barbara together (especially when it comes to Timm’s work) is the age difference. It’s often debated but Barbara in most iterations (including current comic canon) is around the same age as Dick, usually a couple of years older, 2-3 at most. Bruce is depicted as having at least 15 years on her, if not more. And most stories that have Bruce and Barbara together also fixate on her being batgirl. Then there’s the tendency to make a Nightwing-Batgirl-Batman love triangle which I don’t want to get into but I hate completely.

None of that is happening here. Barbara has her own storylines that are just as prominent as Bruce and Harvey’s. She’s an adult with agency and flaws and is just as fleshed out as any of the other characters are. I wouldn’t be surprised if the show takes a season or two to develop a romantic relationship between the two of them. Bruce is completely focused on being Batman and sees Bruce Wayne as a persona. He’s callous with peoples feelings (Harvey, notably) and is shown to struggle with smaller acts of empathy, opening himself up to people, and honestly, social skills. The last of which doesnt doesn’t affect him too negatively because he’s a rich and well known man in Gotham.

Compared to the Bruce Wayne of BTAS it was a smart choice to show a Bruce/Batman who struggles with people and emotions. It reminded me a lot of Reeves’ the Batman. In wider Batman media you usually see two types of depictions: a compassionate Batman (which is where I would place BTAS) or a more emotionless, be-stoic-and-punch-the-bad-guys-and-look-badass version that is usually just a male power fantasy.

This version of Batman sets up the foundation for a storyline that is relatively unexplored, and I’m sure they’re going to explore it more in the next season (which has already been greenlit).

I was surprised at the lack of adult themes in the show, it was marketed for an adult audience but could easily fit into a PG13 rating, but that was probably on purpose. I was impressed they managed to have so many strong, fleshed out storylines in only 10, 30 minute episodes. But I wouldn’t expect anything less of Bruce Timm, or some of the other names I recognized attached to the project in various ways (Greg Rucka, JJ Abrams, Matt Reeves, and Ed Brubaker).

While there are a lot of critiques of Timm I agree with, I generally enjoy his work and the care he puts into it. I love Greg Rucka and was really excited to see that he wrote the episode that was more Renee Montoya centric. And while I have my issues with Ed Brubaker, I do enjoy his work.

While the series is visually and technologically based around the 1940s, the politics are more modern. Harleen asks Renee out on a date and she talks about it with Barbara openly. I saw one review call the show “race blind” which I would not agree with. Most of the racism is implied through euphemism (the scene with Lucius Fox and Gentleman ghost), but it’s still felt as a point of friction for multiple characters, it affects how they interact with the world around them. There’s also a line spoken by either detective Flass or Bullock that implies no one in the GCPD wants to follow Renee because she’s gay. It’s cut off before the last word, but again, the meaning is implied.

An issue I always had with the Timmverse is its depictions of female characters. They always feel less real than their male counterparts, less important and less visually stylized. All the important (read: desirable) women have the same body shape. They’re thin and extremely, unnaturally curvy. I’m aware that these characters are supposed to evoke that 50s comic pinup imagery but I always thought it was a bit much. Male characters - even before the animation downgrade in BTAS season 4 - were always way more unique from each other than the female characters. That wasn’t something I felt with Caped Crusader. The three most prominent female characters (Barbara, Renee and Harleen) were all different from each other, with different heights, body shapes, hair and clothing styles. They also all had 3 distinct personalities that were built up through the series. I would argue that the show was as much about the “supporting cast” (characters like Harvey, Commissioner Gordon, Renee and Barbara) as it was about Batman.

Overall I was really impressed by the show. I was disappointed with how short it was. I hope that Renee’s personal life gets a focus with the next season, and I hope they bring back Greg Rucka to write it. I love how he wrote her in Gotham Central. I was a little annoyed that they introduced the Joker at the end of the series (as a peak into the next season). I think he’s too over saturated as a character, and sometimes his introduction into a Batman story takes over everything else, and he’s depicted as Batman’s Moriarty. I do have hope that this won’t happen in Caped Crusader, because it seems that villains will be reoccurring, but there’ll be a large cast, just like in BTAS. That aspect did remind me of the way characters were introduced in those early Batman comics, it really has the same vibe. I also really really do not want Harley to be involved with the Joker in any way. Please keep her as a separate character, this new interpretation of her is great as is, he doesn’t need to be involved.

I would also be interested to see if the show develops Barbara’s character into Oracle. I could see that happening with the introduction of the Joker at the end of season one. Maybe they’re going to rework the Killing Joke? I couldn’t see them having her as batgirl, but I would be interested to see how they worked Oracle into a world with 1940s technology. I’m thinking back to her as Oracle in the Doom that Came to Gotham, and how clever that was. I’m sure they could do something just as interesting with her here. Something more supernatural feels like a long shot, because Timm usually sticks to the more “realistic”, street-level versions of Batman, but they did introduce Gentleman Ghost. So it’s a possibility.

One thing I did think could have been better was some of the voice work. Not the voice acting itself, but the design. It felt too polished alongside the score and the animation. I wish the voice acting had been more atmospheric, had more depth. It felt too clean. Hamish Linklater was great as Bruce/Batman. Following Kevin Conroy is no small feat, and Linklater’s performance felt reminiscent of Conroy without sounding like an impression. It was quiet and unassuming, yet strong.

I’m not usually someone who watches things more than once, but I’m definitely going to be rewatching Caped Crusader soon.

[artilumi]

hii im gonna say all my fav batfam ships for funsies:

- dickkory

- jayroy

- timkon

- i dont really ship cass or steph w anyone ngl

- i loove daminika theyre very cute little teen romance adorable

- cant decide which bruce ahip i like better, superbat, batcat, or brutalia

- i fw pennywaynes ngl

- dinahbabs

- idk id they have a Name but i like kate w renee

this is it for now :D

[nighttime-thoughts]

'Cause now I'm half of myself here without you, You're the best in my life and i lost you.

Where do we go now? - Gracie Abrams

[momachan]

"I listen to the sound of bells... to water, air, and light... The laughter of the children playing down below--alive, and happy, and free. And it's then that, for the first time, I don't grieve for our son. He is here with us. He is here with the birds, and the boys, and the freedom he bought with his choice, his love, his sacrifice. I remember our son and that last thing he asked, that last question... Where do the birds go when it rains? Where do the birds go when it rains... They take shelter. And when the rain have passed... they take flight."

Bombshells: United (2017-2018) Vol. 2: War Bonds.

Jason's so brave. 😭

[sisaloofafump]

i think lesbian sex would fix lois. thank god she's straight <3

[blackbatcass]

real talk though shoutout to the current tec run for actually letting often ignored or villainized asian women have a voice

[taliaalghulhub]

Talia Al Ghul in DC Bombshells: United Issues 19 and 21

In this comic Kate and Renee adjust to having their son Jason alive again and Talia urges them to think about the outside and world and what Blank Adam is planning

Shortly after this Black Adam finds the lazarus pit and confronts them

[slumberingrose-fandom]

Time Travel S2 (Comic) #9

[thankfullyimgay]

Did I like Gotham Knights? Not really, no. It's not bad bad but it's also not good. But is my mental health hanging on by a thread? Yes. So excuse me while I frantically ship Batgirl with almost every woman she has interacted on this game. "Oh but Montoya is older than her" yes but she's pretty???? "Oh but Harley tried to bash her with a huge ass hammer" that funny and also they're childhood best friends to enemies to lovers???? Plus that's very sexy of both of them??????? "Oh but Talia is eEeViL" and I want her to be worse!!!!!! That white suit was the best part of the ending of the game!!! She's hot and I want her to stab me repeatedly!!!!!!

[insomniac-jay]

How us scholars and intellectuals look everytime we know there's a woman in comics with the same traits as the "woman coded" cis man character

The very important distinction between afrolatino Jason vs female-coded Jason is that afrolatino Jason was come up with by black DC fans who sometimes see themselves in him on a very personal level but generally it's because he falls under so many black character aspects and irl black cultural aspects that we feel it makes way more sense for him to be black than for him to be white so to us,he just is and we design him as looking like a black man and explicitly write him as one too and the latino part is added on for reclamation from the racist gringos who popularized the just 'latino' Jason with no real heritage to him out of fetishization rather than out of love for latin people

And female-coded Jason is literally just.Gender essentialism with underlying transmisogyny by cis women and other tmes LMFAO because when a character who's intended as a cis man in canon is accidentally written like a woman instead,that's transfem-coding and i'm all for tgirl Jason even if i see Jason as transmasc agender within canon but unfortunately that's not what they mean because they think he's a binary man and actively ignore the canon Batfam girls and even the girls in Jason only Batfam lore to the point they refuse to even learn they exist!A side thing gets me is that they don't even make Jason fem presenting which while dosen't universally equal female is at least closer to it than how masc he is canonically and they somehow make him even but not in a positive and healthy masculinity way that is again a canon and important part of his character so it's just.A very bad faith take with very bad implications as opposed to afrolatino Jason,which is very VERY good faith take that beyond improves his character and is made out of nothing but love by black people and support from our allies

Anyway.........Go find Cassandra Cain,Barbara Gordon and Kate Kane reading lists and i can provide Stephanie Brown,Rose Wilson and Talia Al-Ghul ones if asked

[webshood]

I know it's nowhere near mother's day, however, headcanons how Mother's Day works in the Batfam:

Dick, Tim, Cass and Duke usually get a thoughtful gift for Selina every year, she's not their mom, but whenever she's with Bruce, she treats them all very well and is a good stepmother overall. Dick and Tim go visit their mothers grave together, Duke will usually spends his day taking care of his mom and Cass likes to accompany him sometimes.

Damian usually makes big paintings for his mom, Talia enjoy his art a lot, so Damian likes to make paintings that occup a lot of space, so his mother can display it. He usually gives Selina a card or a flower, it depends on if she's currently with father or not.

Stephanie likes to spend the day with her mom and she'll sometimes invite Cass over so she can spend the mother's day with her soon to be mother-in-law, Steph is still gathering the courage to formally ask Cass out.

Mother's day for Jason is a workout. He has to start preparing things with a week in advance, because he keeps getting adopted by random women left and right, he lost count of how many gifts he has to prepare. Flowers for Catherine's grave, flowers for Natalia's, flowers for Ducra's, depending on his mood flowers for Sheila too. Gifts for brunch with Kate and Renee, gifts for his dinner with Talia, gifts to give Selina while on patrol and to finish the night off, as the resident "mom vigilante", during the whole night he'll be getting cards, drawings, gum, candy and cool rocks from the kids on the alley who don't have a mom or a someone to share the day with.

bonus:. After Bruce visits the graveyard, he goes home and watches the Gray Ghost movies on repeat until he sleeps, the kids then will leave him little trinkets for mother's day, like a murder of crows with their favorite human.