#stormlight isn't better in that way

[dayscapism]

Brando Sando defenders should learn the difference between theology and criticism of religion/faith. Also learn to understand thematic undertones and subtlety...

[jochi-the-veristithaylen-baker]

Kelsier: *solves everything by killing noblemen*

Everyone on Scadrial: If only Kelsier was here, he'd have a great way to solve this problem.

Every nobleman on Roshar when they meet an assassin: I bet Kelsier planned this, it feels like something he'd do.

[third-doctor]

I think Rhythm of War is my favorite Stormlight book but man. Oathbringer has so may moments that just stick with me.

Moments that live rent free in my brain, in no particular order:

Veil basically being like "yes I would like to buy an alcohol" and then chugging horneater white. then when someone puts a hand on hers she stabs them through both their hands

"he's learning to read? isn't that kinda... feminine?" "Drehy you are literally courting another man" "and? what does that have to do with it" "yeah don't be homophobic Kal ://"

Kaladin being unable to think about sex without imagining Syl giving him pointers and being so disturbed by it that when someone asks what's wrong he passes it off as reliving a traumatic memory

no mating!!!

"what'd you do, punch a lighteyes?" "yes" *punches the brightlord*

Shallan doing the family guy death pose and flashing everyone for science

Shallan getting stabbed through the chest and Kaladin frantically trying to tear her shirt off without thinking to see where the blood was coming from because he forgot about tits existing

Adolin managing to acquire a nice outfit in Shadesmar and Kaladin's complete bafflement

Dalinar: Adolin, I am putting you in charge of finding who killed that guy. Adolin, who killed that guy: what

Shallan: another murder done exactly the same way! the murderer must've struck again! Adolin, who did not kill this one: what

Lift just appearing in visions when Dalinar tried to talk to Yanagawn and talking about his butt

the Assassin in White joining the final battle and everyone just going okay this might as well happen. everything about this is already so damn weird

Dalinar's solution to EVERYTHING being challenge someone to a fight. this is how everyone communicates they engage in combat. what better strategy could there be than making it clear to someone that I could destroy them by force at any time it worked great on my nephew

young Dalinar walking out into the highstorm to get his knife, stabbing an assassin with it, then rinsing it off in his wine and using it to cut his meat

"stormfather!" "what?" "that was a curse"

[cosmerelists]

If Other Stormlight Characters Served as the King's Wit

As requested by anon. :)

"The King's Wit" is there to insult people in the king's stead. In this role, Hoid basically gets to stand at the entrance to feasts and make fun of people. It's a good gig for him. But what if other characters had this job?

1. The Stormfather

Stormfather (rumbling with displeasure): You have broken an oath today. Stormfather: You promised your son that you would play "Shattered Plains" with him this afternoon, but you did not. Stormfather: Though you feast for today, my storm winds shall one day scatter your dishonored bones. Elhokar (visibly sweating): Ha ha my new Wit sure is, ah, intense!

2. Kaladin

Kaladin: Ew. Another Lighteyes... Kaladin: Sniff, sniff! Smells like the exploitation of the powerless in here! Kaladin: I can name a dozen men better than you and guess what--they're ALL darkeyed. Kaladin: Nice outfit--did it come free with your ancestral privilege?  Elhokar (muttering to himself): I will not put him in jail again, I will not put him in jail again, I will not...

3. Shallan

Shallan: [sketching] Hapless Lighteyed guest: Is that...me? Shallan: It is! [shows Ideal Self portrait--it's the same person, only their sadness and distrust is gone and they shine with an earnest and honest light, looking out toward their future] Hapless Lighteyed Guest (visibly tearing up): I...It's beautiful. Shallan: Please, go ahead & take it! Elhokar: Shallan-Wit, why is everyone at my feast introspective and crying? Shallan: I'm really good at art.

4. Adolin

Adolin: Wow! You are so brave to put those colors together, and in a style from two years ago ago! Adolin: You are almost pulling it off. 

5. Dalinar

Dalinar: Hello. I could not help but overhear your heated argument, my friends. Dalinar: It reminds me of a tale from the Way of Kings, which I will now quote from memory... Dalinar: ... Dalinar: Aaaaand, they fled. Dalinar: That's the third time that's happened this evening.

6. Ialai

Ialai: [hands hapless lighteyed guest a folded-up sheet of paper] Hapless Lighteyed Guest: W-Where did you get this information about me? And my husband? And my...former boyfriend's sister's cousin? Ialai: [merely smiles] Hapless Lighteyed Guest: W-What do you want? Please! I'll do anything! Ialai: Why...nothing at all. Yet. Please enjoy the feast.

7. Lift

Lift: Mmmm....4. Lift: A solid 6! Lift: Perhaps a 5, but ONLY because of those pants. Lift: Wow! An 8! Wyndle: P-Please mistress, I don't think the job of the King's Wit is to rank the butts of all attendees! Lift: They need to know.

8. Jasnah

Hapless Lighteyed Guest: Ugh, I don't think it's right for the king to employ a heretic as his Wit! Jasnah: It's strange--one might think that your faith in the Almighty would inspire you to strive to be a good man, yet in reality your mother weeps each and every night to have produced a son who loves drinking and gambling more than he loves his children, his wife, or indeed the Almighty. Jasnah: Should you wish to inspire faith in others, perhaps you should try to demonstrate even the smallest reason why yours has produced an iota of good for anyone in this world aside from yourself. Elhokar (across the room, watching): I...am afraid.

9. Lopen

Lopen: Hey, I know you! I got a cousin in your army! Lopen: He always laughs 'bout how weird it is that your officers make the men pay for their own boots 'n' stuff 'cause it's an army not a charity, right? But then your officer son gets an allowance which is funny 'cause that kinda seems like the 'charity' thing that an army isn't! Lopen: We Herdazians tend to use a word to mean a thing, yeah? But you Alethi sure like to make a word mean whatever it is you want!

10. Szeth & Nightblood

Nightblood: Evil. Evil. Evil. Definitely evil. Big evil! Little evil, but still evil. Szeth: You've identified every guest so far as evil, sword-nimi. Nightbood: Yeah, I'm so good at detecting evil! So when does the slaying start? Szeth: I told you. I don't murder entire parties anymore. That is my past, but it does not have to be my future. Nightblood: But you're the King's Wit! You got wit-tle down the evil, right? Szeth: That is not what that means, sword-nimi. Nightblood: ... Szeth: ... Nightblood: People sure do speed up when they have to walk past us, huh? Szeth: I am pretty sure that means we're doing a good job.

[sweetteaanddragons]

So! It's been long enough now that someone else has almost certainly already said all this and said to better, but laying it out will help me sort through my own thoughts on it. Let's look at Epic: The Musical and ruthlessness.

Throughout the musical, the question of whether or not goals should be pursed ruthlessly has been emphasized. Odysseus's arc, unquestionably, is one of learning to accept ruthless action, and this ends with him achieving his goal. Looking at his arc alone, this would suggest a theme like, "Ruthlessness is effective."

. . . of course, looking at his arc a little more closely, we also see that ruthlessness, like mercy, has a cost. Yes, letting Polyphemus live cost him Poseidon's wrath. (Of course, his pride played just as big a role in creating that particular bill . . . ) On the other hand, his ruthless action with Scylla cost him the trust of his men, leading to the mutiny, the deaths of the cattle, the deaths of his crew . . . and, as is plainly seen in later songs, a good chunk of his peace of mind.

He kills the suitors, explicitly turning down any chance of a more merciful resolution! Interestingly, the musical then ends before exploring the consequences of this as the original poem does. All of the suitors had families . . . and those families are going to want payback of their own. Since the musical chooses not to address this, though, we'll leave it out of any discussion of the theme.

What the musical does choose to do is have Athena present her final thoughts on the matter. Athena has been going through the opposite arc to Odysseus: she starts the musical urging him to put his emotions aside and be more ruthless and ends it worrying that she's led him wrong. Athena herself has embraced more merciful actions, choosing to forgive Odysseus's disobedience to her and to fight for him even without any guarantee that she would gain his renewed friendship as a reward. By the end of the musical, Athena has the Odysseus she originally wanted . . . and she's no longer sure this is the kind of world she wants to live in. ("What if there's a world where we don't have to live this way?" which is an interesting echo of Polites: "Tell me is this how we're supposed to live?")

Odysseus decides he can't afford to work for that world . . . but he doesn't reject it as something not worth wanting, only as something he can't have. As the show's final (direct) comment on ruthlessness, it would seem to suggest the theme is something like, "In some situations, ruthlessness can be necessary, but a world where it isn't is something to strive for." (In which case, it's interesting to start dissecting whether the story believes that the modern world has achieved that second state, or whether the story still sees it as aspirational.)

(Side note: this definitely reminded me of one of Dalinar and Nohadon's conversations in Stormlight Archive about the kinds of codes of honor written by kings in times of peace vs. the actions kings take to get to those times of peace.)

Looking at some of the other side characters:

Telemachus attempts mercy in "Odysseus" but it backfires on him.

On the other hand, Eurylochus, one of the original proponents of ruthlessness in the musical, utterly fails to survive the play.

. . . of course, neither does Polites, the proponent of mercy.

Polyphemus denies Odysseus's crew mercy and suffers for it, while if he had taken their bargain, he probably would have been fine. Poseidon falls into the same category. Circe offers Odysseus mercy and is fine . . .

. . . but the whole reason she is initially ruthless is because failing to be has cost her before, and she only resorts to mercy when her ruthless attempt to kill Odysseus fails.

Which brings us to an interesting line in her final song:

"Maybe one day the world will need a puppeteer no more/maybe one day the world will need a puppeteer MORE."

Which ties in interestingly to Athena and Odysseus's conversation wherein Athena hopes for a better world someday.

So where does that leave the musical's message?

I'd argue that the musical's ultimate message on it is that, "Ruthlessness is effective so long as you have the power to back it up . . . which is one reason why a better world is one to strive for."

If you're powerful enough and you make sure to always shut anyone down before they can hurt you, you can ensure you don't get hurt.

The problem, of course, is making sure you're always the biggest monster in the room - and as Poseidon's fall demonstrates, you are never, ever going to be powerful enough to ensure that forever.

Odysseus, however, is convinced that Poseidon was right: "the world is dark." Ruthlessness may lead to a dark path that ultimately leads to your own gruesome death, but it's the only way to achieve even a moment of victory.

Which then brings us to Circe and Athena's lyrics that point to the future world - or, from our perspective, our world. Is it a world that can be safely greeted with open arms? Is it a world that can't?

And if it's a world that can't, can we afford the cost of letting it remain that way? Is Odysseus's world, where every threat is shut down as quickly and cruelly as possible until WE'RE the threat that's cut down, actually the world we want to live in?

. . . ooooh, wait a minute. Hold on.

Because the musical doesn't end with his scene with Athena. It ends with his reunion with Penelope.

Ruthlessness can get him to Penelope. It can bring him home alive.

It can't force her to still love him.

And in a worldview strictly defined by it . . . she shouldn't. She shouldn't be able to forgive him for failing her for twenty years. At most, she should accept him back on the grounds that he's clearly still the strongest warrior around, so for practical reasons - sure, yeah. We can still be married.

But that's not her perspective. Her perspective is of course she still loves him. Of course nothing can have destroyed the roots of their relationship.

In the end, she greets him with open arms.

[zibiscusinfandoms]

the stormlight archive characters, in a modern au, if they went to university:

- kaladin stormblessed: med school, obviously. he will become one of the best surgeons ever, would probably be a general surgeon? could just be an emergency doctor too. maybe an army medic, but i don't really think he would be a paramedic. those are the options.

- shallan davar: natural sciences/ biology major with her minor being liberal arts. she would love doing field work. would probably stay in academia after graduation, with jasnah's influence too. (jasnah is a professor at her university.)

- adolin kholin: if his family's bussiness is corporate, then he would major in bussiness. if it's politics (like in the books), then he would major in political science. he would also take martial arts classes and that would be his real passion though. might even want to go to the olympics.

- dalinar kholin: again, depends on their family bussiness, i don't have an au mapped out for this lol. political science or bussiness major. he might go back for a philosophy degree after discovering the way of kings though haha.

- jasnah kholin: double major in history and political sciences. even if their family bussiness is corporate, she will use politics to navigate it. but she stays in academia and becomes a professor.

- renarin kholin: also either bussiness or political science but he double majors and gets a literature degree too. also goes to writing classes.

- szeth-son-son-vallano: i kind of have no idea. might be religion/philosophy. people who finished wind and truth would know better.

- navani kholin: engineering, obviously. maybe electrical and electronics engineering. which engineering would she prefer? she's also from a rich family, and her family does run a corporate, with many engineers hired. she studies engineering instead of bussiness though, could lead a team of engineers there maybe (as she does in the books).

- elhokar kholin: also either bussiness or political science.

- sylphrena: there is not a single universe where she isn't right next to kaladin, so she has to work in medicine. (i also think that she would genuinely want to help people and choose medicine.) she could be a nurse, or like the anaesthesiologist to kaladin's general surgeon. or maybe a med student always following kaladin (he would be a resident) around, then a resident always following him (as an attending) around. she is a whimsical, energetic addition to the staff. also let kaladin and syl be roommates.

- pattern: mathematics. also shallan's dorm roommate and they are weird together. he stays in academia, at the university after graduation too, with shallan. and they keep living together.

i think that's all? these are always so fun to do honestly. i'd love to know what everyone thinks.

[milkyway-or-bust]

Just finished Stormlight Archive: Way of the Kings and there's so much I want to discuss about it without chewing the ears off my friends. So I put a review on Story graph and realised you couldn't comment on others reviews so I'm just going to dump all my feelings here ahhh (Spoiler heavy btw) :

Very long book and I loved it for it. Great start to what will hopefully be a brilliant series.

The action is stellar. The book starts on a brilliant action scene to draw you in and then isn't afraid to slow down and let the characters develop through self-reflection.

The Fantasy elements were first class and their implications are explored well: The world is mostly rocks and crustaceans and you rarely forget that. The consequences of the ecology and logistics of having to live in such a world are explored well especially in the Shattered Planes. When armies use their Shard plate as a weapon and not just as protection for the elite it changes the tactics of their whole army.

Some notes on the POVs:

Dalinar was my favorite POV. His struggles were fascinating; he is a man who is dealing with a lot of self doubt after the death of his brother and from his new visions. He is a man of action who finds himself having to play politics and philosophy that he once could leave to his brother. His exploration of this self doubt and the mistakes he makes trying to make sense of his visions and retain his honour give him a great depth. His willingness to give up power at first wholly and then by sacrificing his Shardblade to free the bridgemen is refreshing for a general/warlord character. Throughout the book he is contrasted with the other Bright lords as someone who actually holds up the ideals expected of him and we see the benefits of this in his men's loyalty and his camps organization. But we also see where these ideals falter: He doesn't have allies among the other Bright lords, who at best see him as the kings eccentric overly traditional better than  uncle and at worst see him as a weak coward hiding behind the Codes and the king. His honour gets in the way of military tactics, he commits more soldiers to general civil enforcement and the kings protection without demanding anything return and in the ultimate battle it costs men their lives. Even had Sadeas not betrayed him his refusal to cross onto the Tower at two point so as not to hurt the bridgemen under his command is ultimately cost more lives as it meant the rest of the bridgemen were under more fire at their crossing. Dalinar's stringent honour is both his greatest strength and greatest weakness and his path to overcoming his self doubt leads to a very strong final POV chapter in this book Beating up the king to prove that he couldve killed him at any moment without the convoluted plot is very cathertic especially since Elhokar spends a lot of this book being a nuisance and then the final btw I'm courting your mum now  A few things I would love see/speculations about Dalinar in the next book :

I want a confident and in charge Dalinar, at the end of the book we see Dalinar finally get assertive. There will definitely be consequences for doing so  and if this first book is anything to go by this position will be hard to keep hold of but I would at least like to see him in this role for at least the first half of the book

A Dalinar Kaladin mentorship, the start of this was explored at the end of the book. Dalinar being the first in a long time to comment on Kaladins youth. I hope they will butt heads as they go. Both are good and honourable but their methods are very different (Dalinar being too stringent in honour, Kaladin committing bribery and corpse desecretion to do the honourable thing). With Kaladins now in charge of Dalinar's security I can see this difference in methods becoming an issue.

Complete speculation:I think Dalinar will die in the course of the series. Not next book, he has too much mystery to uncover yet (though it would be a very bold choice to do it early next book) I can see as the books go on his POV becoming less and less common until eventually he is killed off to advance some of the younger characters. Strongest speculation: With the tension in this book, his death will be what either brings together or causes all out war between Adolin and Kaladin

Second favorite protagonist Kaladin (specifically non flashback Kaladins): Going in I had heard a lot of praise for Kaladin as a protagonist so I had very high hopes and this probably ruined his first few chapters for me. My first impression was that he was Mr Perfect Boy who always made the most perfect protagonist choices but had the world there  ready to beat him down at any chance possible for plot and tragedy reasons. This was correct. But the trick was that he grew on me, his decision to keep choosing to do the right thing, to keep making the choice to keep caring, that is what makes him a great character. And starting from a point of disliking him added a great dimension of growing to like and respect him in parallel with Bridge Four growing to like and respect him His scencerity is what makes him a great character. The progression of Kaladin and his allies in the book is great, it is a slow and steady raising up from nothing that is full of pit falls. Bridgemen who seem to be throwaways to the churn of the narrative become some of the best characters in the book. We see these bridgemens personalities as hope let's them find themselves again. Kaladin contrasts with Dalinar with in terms of honour in a really interesting way. Dalinar is honourable for sticking to his Codes no matter the consequences, Kaladin sticks to his people no matter the consequences, even if it means breaking the rules of engagement. By halfway through the book it was Kaladin chapters that I was most looking forward too with one exception: the flashback scenes. Maybe these scenes will be relevant later in the story however in this book they mainly act as a way to explain why Kaladin is the way that he is, but Kaladin's "present day" chapters do a fine job of this already. I think some of these scenes especially Tiens death would have been more poignant if they hadn't happened "on-screen". In a such a long book every chapter should justify being included and I don't know if Kaladin's flashbacks all did. Some Kaladin speculations:

I want to see Kaladin struggle with his promotion. Kaladin's leadership style has always been personal acts to inspire loyalty. Freeing the Bridgemen will probably have done that and given him his core support. But now that he has more men to command then he can spend time personally rescuing, I want him to run into the pitfalls of having a large group to command. I want  to see him have to make decisions where whatever option he takes someone suffers. I want him to make a selfish decision at some point lose sight of his very reason for doing what he does before something that snaps him back. I want him to make foolish decisions that a nineteen year old would make

I want more Bridge Four cozy dynamics, plenty in this book but I want MORE

Kaladin dealing with politics, he'll be either brilliant or terrible at it

Next Shallan. I enjoyed her chapters. Like with Kaladin I had heard things about her before, but with her it was that her chapters were boring and I can see it. But what struck me was that it wasn't when she was researching that it got boring it was when she was worried about the source of tension in her plotline her plan to steal the Soulcaster throughout the plot she wishes she didn't have to do it  and tempted to continue her studies and I found myself more interested in the patron ward system and Jasnahs studies than the stakes Shallan had. It doesn't help that in some ways Jasnahs wardship might be a way for Shallan family to escape their faith regardless. The ending of this plotline has a bunch of interesting twists that all hit in rapid succession at the end of the book. I enjoyed it, but not as much as the other chapters and not for the heist aspects.

Szeth son son Vallano, badass character. Spent the whole book waiting for his back story still waiting, but waiting in anticipation. The twist at the end of his final chapter made me want to reread the whole book for the clues I missed

Navani - only one POV scene but very poignant, I want to know more about her fabrial work and her relationship with her daughter 

Adolin - last POV worth mentioning (there's a lot of PoVs) only two -three chapters which basically affirm with Dalinar thinks of him. Apparently he gets more and more interesting as the series continues.

[isdalinarhot]

thinking about dalinar dying. thinking about about how dalinar renounced his oaths before dying to Prove A Point but also because he was about to break "life before death" and sacrifice himself for the greater good. thinking about how, in a book series where "there is no moral value in dirt time" is enshrined into the code of ethics virtually every main character must follow, brandon wanted to have his cake and eat it too and have dalinar do the religious figure thing and Die For The Cause. thinking about how literally the only two deaths in wind and truth are leyten getting ganked (who lets be real nobody on earth gave a singular shit about) and dalinar essentially killing himself (but it's legally distinct from suicide because it was ideological and was to prove a point, even though that's so outside what stormlight's whole everything goes for). thinking about how during the time goop they showed dalinar on the day of gavilar's murder specifically trying to get more drunk after he had been cut off for safety concerns, which means even if he was not explicitly actively suicidal back then it did mean he did not care whether he lived or died, and a character that felt like that a mere 8 years before sacrificing himself for the cause feels so incredibly gross. thinking about how wind and truth in the early outlines back in 2014 was meant to be the dalinar book, meaning we would have had dalinar relapsing and then sacrificing himself for the greater good the exact day he stopped his bender (you can never try again, you can never do better, if you fuck up after a long streak of keeping yourself together the only option is to die). thinking about how this isn't even the first example; in wax and wayne the series finale is wayne hating himself immensely and explicitly for an entire book, having like 2 chapters where he finds some self-confidence, and then sacrificing himself for the greater good at the end, (and it's all okay because wayne wasn't explicitly suicidal, he just hated himself and his life). thinking about how brandon's favorite way to end a book series is with a beloved character nobly sacrificing their life and how that conflicts so heavily with the core thesis of the stormlight archive that he had to make the character doing it literally break the rules all the main characters are governed by that are metaphors for the process of healing from trauma and recovering from mental illness to do so. thinking about dalinar dying.

[sailorspren]

Top 5 things you're looking forward to/want in stormlight arc 2?

Oh I'll be 100% real with you, I hated WaT and I don't know if I'll even read era 2. But in my wildest fantasies here are some things I would want from the series:

1. Gavinor and Moash breaking the cycle of violence together (forgiving each other/creating something better together etc)

2. Honestly any Moash arc that isn't wildly racist

3. Honestly just the series in general not being racist would be great. I'd like the system of racial oppression to be acknowledged in a way that's not just window dressing for people's trauma, I'd like oppressed people's anger to not be villainized, I'd like more darkeyed and singer characters, and especially more darkeyed and singer characters who resist the system in meaningful ways, I'd like Kaladin's internalized racism and model minority behavior to be acknowledged, I'd like Shallan's and Dalinar's and Navani's and everyone else's deeply ingrained racism to be acknowledged, I'd like less arcs about how hard it is to be privileged and the superficial guilt of the ruling class, I'd like history to not be revisited and told only from the oppressors' point of view. I'd like it if race and class issues weren't brushed aside in favor of dramatic epic fantasy plots moved along by the actions of individuals from the ruling class

4. A trans main character + more queer characters in general who are part of the main cast. Personally I'm a trans/nonbinary Lift believer I think it's a perfect continuation of her arc

5. More Navani and more Rysn and more Leshwi. Actually please Kaleshwi. Kaleshwi could fix this series

[nevertheless-moving]

stormlight au number 27. Elhokar and Kaladin time travel from Oathbringer to Way of Kings.

IMPORTANT: kaladin and elhokar develop weird unhealthy codependent situationship.

(MAJOR Oathbringer spoilers below)

...

...

Kaladin isn't pulled away by Adolin when he has his meltdown over Elhokar's death, over not being able to Save Everyone, and instead clings to Elhokar's dying body as a symbol of his failures. When Kaladin is killed in the confusion, something - the universe/ sja anat/ tattered pieces of honor and odium / hey maybe even adolnesium themselves who knows is like - errr. What. nope. Not my special boy!  Go back, Try Again. 

Kaladin wakes up in Way Of Kings, maybe a highstorm or two before the Tower. Kaladin is just like ah i see eternal damnation. Eternal damnation for my failures. Takes a little time before even considering the idea of time travel. Fortunately his attitude and response to thinking he's been consigned to everlasting ironic torment is remarkably similar to his response to the events of the first book, so a few days go by before the bridgecrew notices he's more fucked up than usual. 

Elhokar wakes up and (i enjoy the idea of THE COSMERE ITSELF SAVING KALADIN STORMBLESSED! and also Elhokar is there!) has no idea what to do. Testy with both thadeus and dalinar. Figures out some lightweaving. Maybe passes an order that the bridgemen should all have shields, in case Kaladin doesn't remember the future either, as a little goodwill present. After a couple more days he sneaks out to thadeus's bridgemen barracks to ask the hero for help, since none of the other kholins are responding to his leading mention of things he saw in 'dreams'.

Obviously he's not going to show his actual face when the guy who murdered him is in the room.

Dark amorphous blob with glowing blue eyes entering the barracks: Greetings Stormbles - do you all just sleep on the floor? And what is that smell? Heralds, this is depressing. Bridge four: WHAT THE - VOIDBRINGER! VOID- Kaladin : calm down, men, that's not what a voidbringer looks like. I think...its an unmade? Are there unmades in damnation? Only - that voice...do i...know you... Dark amorphous blob with glowing blue eyes: well, looking around, i suppose i can see why you would think this is braize, but come on, we're not actually dead and the almighty sent us ...here... for a reason. I need you to do your hero thing, huphup. Kaladin: ...shallan? Dark amorphous blob with glowing blue eyes: I suppose I am glad for the memory confirmation, but do i look - ugh - okay for hopefully obvious reasons i'm not going to put my true face on, so don't be an idiot and blurt out my real name, but i can probably wear the, ah, outfit she picked for me in Kholinar [Amorphous dark blob turns into pretty light eyed woman]: tada! Bridgefour: uh Teft: storms...you're one of them too...i think... Skar: does anyone else feel like we're in more danger now? Like better we were found with a voidbringer in our quarters than a brightlady? Drehy: no, i agree Hobber: shh! We're finally getting the captain's mysterious backstory ! Bissig: i TOLD you guys he must have got involved with a brightlady Leyten: and i bet on voidbringers which we all agreed was 10 to 1 so i'm pretty sure i'm winning Kaladin: Kaladin: [starting to tear up] Brightlady: uh Kaladin: [grabbing brightlady and audibly sobbing] Brightlady: UH Teft: storms you really broke him  Brighlady: what! I have no idea whats happening! He doesn't even like me! You all must have done something to him! Kaladin:  i thought...i failed you...that I cohldnt save you...i saw you get stab ed Brightlady: oh...huh. you really take that 'protect everyone' thing seriously. Do you do this every time someone you're guarding gets hurt? Moash: yeah... he's pretty much always like this Bridge four: [general nods of agreement] Brightlady: [awkwardly patting kaladin on the back]: well. The good news is i'm much more stab resilient now! Aha. Still would prefer not to... Kaladin: [weeping] Brightlady: come on bridgeman, there's a desolation coming remember? Saving the world and all that? Rest of bridge four: 

Anyway Elhokar somewhat intentionally leads the non Kaladin members of bridge four to believe that the actual Elhokar is dead, and that he (she? No, he, i think. Maybe they? Just - just go by what face i'm wearing!) has taken the king's place through dark magics. He assumes that the bridgemen will like him better if they think he's some sort of unholy kingkilling blood sorcerer, as opposed to the actual elhokar kholin.

Depressingly, he's right.

Unhealthy situationship! They both see each other as a Symbol. Elokhar is the Chance to Save Everyone. Kaladin is the True Hero and Leader. Kaladin starts tutoring elohkar on how to be a good person and leader, blaming his death on not doing so earlier. 

Kaladin's ability to do so is somewhat hindered by his deep unwillingness to see elhokar in danger, and his extreme tendency to take control when he sees something wrong. He objectively recognizes that this was also dalinars problem, but still shakes like a chihuahua sometimes to avoid grabbing elhokhar by the scruff of the neck when he does something stupid. Definitely questionable how qualified kaladin is for teaching, but like. There is progress.

Elhokar uses kaladin ruthlessly as a glowing flying tool to instill fear in his highprinces, which makes kaladins skin crawl a little, but it is helping enforce a lot of social changes protecting darkeyes that he never dreamed could happen. 

Elhokar at somepoint offers to lightweave kaladin and make him king elokhar instead. 

Kaladin doesn't even know where to start unpacking that.

Intriguingly, the whole not seeing the man for the symbol thing, while being Not Great, is also the source of a bit of solid common ground for each other. A few dizzy moments in private where they connect uniquely on what it is to have no friends who are not followers. Of never being allowed to be just a man.

Also some incredibly specific trauma bonding of living through the actual apocalypse. Both have some serious issues regarding dying in the absolute shitshow that was that the unmade palace. Mutual extreme distress when elokhar accidentally lightweaves a flashback. Please imagine a servant walking in on King Elhokar and Lord Stormblessed clinging to one another and shaking on the ceiling while a nightmareish orgy of death takes place beneath them. Paid off extremely well to never discuss what she saw, not that she'd be able to explain it.

Hard to completely cover up because she ran away screaming. Couple people assume the two men were fucking, but honestly most assume by her genuine distress, i mean jokes aside, those are two very good looking men and she was, you know, screaming in terror, so almost definitely not that. Some sort of vision from the almighty? Maybe a voidbringer?? 

Bridgefour, under the impression that 'elhokars' 'true form' is closer to the shadowy nightmare blob they initially saw (do you know how hard it is to lightweave invisibility? It was a rough draft, alright?), are largely convinced that she walked in on that. And maybe them fucking, uncertain about that part. They are initially supportive of their captain's potential monsterfucking (the man deserves to relax) but grow increasingly concerned about some of the red flags in their relationship. 

Anyway, needless to say, dalinar and kaladins dynamic is weird in this one. Still a fair amount of instant mututal respect. But now elhokar is cribbing shamelessly from dalinars hero journey and calling him out  on his tendency to seize power, undermining elokhar. So dalinar feels a lot more wobbly about his place. 

Apparently not even the visions from god are special, elhokar and his secret radiant (a real radiant!) had been receiving some too? Better, more useful ones even? 

And the radiant is taking his place in elhokars trust, and calling him out even MORE for not teaching elhokhar how to be a leader when he was younger, stormfather,  did you want him to fail? how did it get this bad? Fortunately, Dalinar is willing to get humble and Grow. Honestly, dalinar and kaladin are probably in a better place. More mutual trust. Less constant exchange of unpayable debts. Kaladins rank is really confusing, but theyre closer to equals than they were in canon.

Teft: lad we need to talk about you and the Uh. Lightweaver. shapeshifter? Kaladin : what? I thought you guys were warming up to eachother Lopen: gancho they're the best unholy creature i've ever met. Proper respect for herdassian women. Skar: lopen does not agree with this intervention but the rest of us are...concerned. Rock: is how he looks at you that we are worried. Like starving man looks at beloved pet axehound. Kaladin: Kaldin: what? Moash: you know i'm fond of the guy, it's like Skar said, we're a little...concerned. That he wants to, you know, kill and eat you so he can take your place. Kaladin: he wouldn't - he definitely wouldn't eat me. Teft: see, the fact that you didn't immediately argue with the 'murder you to take your place' part of that is concerning. Kaladin: he's just going through a lot. Rock: yes, but way you circle one another...again, like axehound and man, only you change places Kaladin: hes my king! and im secretly tutoring him on how to be a leader! of course our dynamic is going to be odd!  Teft: look its - he's not a normal person. He doesn't know how to...be a human, i don't think.  Kaladin: yeah, sure, I'll give you that. but he's getting better! You saw how he said thank you to sigzil the other day! Moash: kal... Kaladin: i can fix him Moash: kal

Sure hope dalinar never overhears bridgefour and elhokar talking about how glad they are that his nephew is dead and that new elhokar took his place! He definitely wouldn't go into a murderous rage and do something regrettable if he believed that were true!

Alternate Version with Solo Elhokar Time Travel Stormlight AU Masterlist

[natequarter]

consequences of a stormlight archive au in which elhokar and jasnah switch places as kids i'm currently planning out in my head:

no vengeance pact, no war with the listeners. gavilar still got murdered tae fuck by szeth; that goes unchanged. likewise, the highprinces are still pretty disunited and the alethi regularly "explore" (read: raid) the shattered plains, but they're not actively at war with the listeners. this is because "king elhokar" isn't elhokar, it's jasnah, and she's not fucking stupid

shallan's way of kings plotline starts off seemingly the same, except "princess jasnah" is extremely dramatic and not known for heresy, but her art. this is because this isn't jasnah, it's elhokar. elhokar instantly decides to take shallan on as his ward when he realises she's an artist and nothing goes wrong ever except for all the problems

whilst amaram's army is still out fighting border skirmishes, roshone was not sent to hearthstone; as such tien didn't die and kaladin was sent to kharbranth to train as a surgeon... only to uncover the shit taravangian is up to with death rattles. obviously, he eventually runs into shallan. it goes badly.

the highprinces are... not necessarily better off for having the king that they have, because the king of alethkar regularly and violently disagrees with the highprinces and alethi laws/traditions/hierarchy, and as a consequence jasnah regularly risks going too far and being deposed or assassinated, but on the bright side, dalinar and his sons have an ally and no one thinks he's the one trying to assassinate the king this time round

[onlycosmere]

Brandon Sanderson: It is, frankly, a bit of a miracle that this [Secret Project Five] manifests in the middle of Stormlight Five. And it only did because I had a little bit of momentum on it from a number of years ago.

And you'll find out once that is once we do more of the reveals. But it's something I've been writing on for maybe seven, eight years.

I wrote a bunch of this in Hawaii last year. I took some time and relaxed; I actually had two trips to Hawaii last year, one with the whole family, and then one with just myself and Emily. And that's where the bulk of this was written, was during those two trips.

Dan Wells: Secret Project Five is much shorter and more compact. It's got, I think, really only two POVs.

Brandon Sanderson: Something else I wanted to talk about with this. You mentioned High Cosmere Connectivity; I worked forever trying to figure out how to write that phrase. Because it had to fit in, like, two or three words on the screen. And it had to explain... and I'm not sure if people will understand, even still, what we're getting across.

Because what I really wanted to say is: this book isn't intended for first-time Cosmere readers (though if you are a first-time Cosmere reader and you understand that, you'll probably have a good time). The rest of you probably should read a few Cosmere books before you pick this one up, then you will really enjoy it better.

That's what I wanted to write; that's not three words.

If they know they're jumping into future era where there's a lot more Cosmere connectivity... but, the story reads just fine on its own. There are plenty of people who could read this book, not know anything, and enjoy it quite a bit. It doesn't require you to have read other books to understand. But...

And some people don't like a lot of Cosmere connections. And this one does have them. It's got characters from multiple different planets; some you've seen, some you haven't. And it's taking place, kind of dealing with future era sort of stuff. I think most readers will enjoy it, but I do want you to be aware of that, right? There are some people who are just like, "I just want to read Stormlight Archive, and I don't want to worry about the larger mess."

And this is probably not something they would like.

Dan Wells: One of the things, as I was reading it (because I was keeping this idea in mind of how accessible is it to new readers), in a lot of ways I think... Imagine Lord of the Rings, except it starts after they've already left the Shire.

So you don't actually get to see the homeland of anyone in the Fellowship. But you hear about their homeland, and they brag about their homeland to each other. That still works, right?

It's very Guardians of the Galaxy; other than Earth, you don't really see anyone's homeworld. But you can accept, "Okay, these are all the adventurers that have come together to do the thing."

[smoldering-violets]

So I've had some Thoughts lately as I've been rereading Oathbringer about a post I saw at some point just after finishing reading the Stormlight Archive for the first time and starting to get into the fandom. The basic premise of the post was that both Elhokar and Jasnah would have both led better lives if they were trans and effectively switched roles.

I disagree with that in regards to Jasnah. Her problems are mostly from the strict gender roles put on her by Alethi culture and vorinism, not from just being a woman. Also, as an elsecaller her oaths are supposed to revolve around meeting her potential and becoming better, and she's shown to be at at least the fourth ideal in RoW. If she were trans I'd expect that to have come up at some point. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm transfem not transmasc but I don't see that for Jasnah.

Elhokar on the other hand, I get the argument. There's not a lot of textual evidence, but more than for Jasnah. Like Jasnah, the strict gender roles of their culture seems to cause Elhokar distress, but he's way worse at making his own place despite them than Jasnah is. Elhokar was made king after his father's death due to being the only male heir, but as is shown throughout the series he's not good at being a king. Like at all. Jasnah does a much better job ruling Alethkar and that's during the apocalypse! Anyway, being a bad king doesn't mean he's trans, but it does help illustrate that the place he's put in life doesn't fit him.

The strongest evidence for Elhokar being trans is that he's attracted the attention of cryptics and if he wasn't killed he would have become a lightweaver. Lightweavers tend to be people who have deeply hidden truths about themselves that they refuse to admit even to themselves (assuming Shallan isn't a complete outlier). As someone who is trans, it's pretty easy to imagine that being a powerful truth someone would be reluctant to admit to.

Additionally, in Oathbringer when the team is infiltrating Kohlinar, Shallan suggests disguising Elhokar as a woman. Kaladin and Shallan both expect him to resist that idea, but he goes along with it eagerly and never seems uncomfortable with the experience or role while wearing that disguise. It seems like a similar thing to a lot of trans women dressing up as women for Halloween before realizing who they are/coming out because it gives them plausible deniability. I know I for one would have been delighted to have the opportunity to have an illusion that changes both my appearance and voice to be more feminine (I'm slowly working on that without the illusion, but anyways).

The last thing that's less directly evidence of being trans, but still contributes to the argument imo is that Elhokar seems to be kinda depressed most of the time. It'd be pretty easy to read the cut saddle strap situation in TWoK as a potential suicide attempt that could be explained away as trying to find assassins. In WoR after Dalinar sets off into the shattered plains Elhokar immediately starts drinking and goes to Kaladin to talk about how bad he is a being a king. On the night of the assassination attempt he's extremely drunk and moping in his rooms. In early Oathbringer he tries to abdicate the throne to Dalinar and constantly talks about how he always fails and makes a mess of things.

Anyway that's about it for my random thoughts and rambles about this that have been rattling around in my head for a while. I doubt this'll really persuade anyone, but I just wanted to put my thoughts out there

[kaiasky]

so spoilers for wind and truth the latest stormlight book

jasnah has this whole debate thing with odium where she starts out as a utilitarian and odium proves to her and the judge that she's a hypocrite because 1) she cannot know the greater good for certain especially not when an immortal god is saying he knows for certain his way is best. 2) while she'd sacrifice a stranger to save her kingdom she wouldn't sacrifice her family and that makes her a hypocrite for not truly caring about the greatest good for the greatest number of people etc. and so actually her utilitarianism is just cover over more petty noble-squabbling look-out-for-you-and-yours philosophy.

and overall this works for me right. Jasnah losing a debate and having her world shaken is very fun and I like where she arrives at the end where she's like shit. I have to reassess my whole philosophy. what do I still believe in. like I think she holds the Clown Stick for much of the scene but it does mean she gets scenes of her nobly trying to be intellectually honest as she rebuilds and reconsiders her ideology.

And like. I like that she's put in the vulnerable position of feeling on a gut level that Odium is wrong but not being able to articulate that rationally yet. Particularly in a book about like. what it means to make wrong choices and then make better choices later, I like that it isn't that Jasnah's scholarship is useless when she finds she's wrong, and instead it provides an orderly way for her to rebuild.

However. part of me feels like. look. I dont think Jasnah is actually lying about "greatest good" shit. I think if Teravangian could credibly tell her that he served the greatest good she would be like. for real? Convince me that a war in the cosmos is necessary. why not something more subtle. can we put checks and balances in this? sure you wield the Shard of unbridled hatred and scorn but like. That's why we set up checks and balances. idk.

idk. there's an alternate way to write it where Jasnah ends up being the spark of the idea to fuse Odium with a balancing Shard somehow or to like. create the Council Of Feelings to manage the power etc.

and. Idk. I think probably id be a little cynical about it. Ohhh now mister liberal Mormon is going to preach to me how even seemingly reasonable tolerant atheists will make deals with the devil if they don't have a code to give them morals.

buuut. idk.

first off I think Jasnah/Teravangian is a fun dynamic. and in particular if there's not Hoid, I want her to have someone who can be like damn she's smart.

Secondly like. IDK. I think in order to sell Teravangian as an extremely dangerous person to be holding Shards you'd really like him to say like. "yes this power is driven by strong feelings. This scares me and I am thinking of how to manage this through Establishing Systems." a thing that I think Jasnah could find pretty appealing

I think it would be excellent to have a non-Yolen non-Shard who is cosmere-aware and has has strong thoughts on what the future of the Shards and cosmere should be. particularly bc she's exes with Hoid.

Like. from a doylist perspective the goal is for Thaylenah to fall from a seemingly sure position, and from a watsonian perspective it's bc Odium isn't trying to recruit Jasnah, he's trying to get Thaylenah by proving her a hypocrite. And also even if her arguments are defeated she's still ideologically opposed to tyranny and so there's nothing a tyrant can offer her. I get it. but c'mon give me Dark Jasnah

[cosmerelists]

Top 10 Adolin Friendships I Want to See More Of

[THIS POST CONTAINS WAT SPOILERS!!]

If Adolin has one superpower, it's the Power of Friendship. And in Wind and Truth, we saw this superpower on full display. Here are the friendships I really want to see more of in the back half of Stormlight!

#10: Adolin & Gavinor

Now, we haven't really seen Adolin and Gavinor interact so far, I know, but hear me out. Gavinor is now a twenty-something, PTSD-having, manipulated-by-an-evil-god, saw-his-grandfather-die-in-front-of-him messed-up guy. And Kaladin is gone, so the newly minted Kaladin therapy isn't available for poor Gavinor. But there is one other man who knows how to temporarily push back the darkness in his friends' minds through the power of friendship--and that's Adolin. I would like to see Adolin just being Gavinor's friend, hopefully making his life just a little bit better.

#9: Adolin & Hmask

Hmask is a new character in Wind & Truth--a Thaylen man who is devoutly loyal to Adolin due to Adolin having saved his son from that Thunderclast. Hmask seems incredibly cool--when Adolin makes his dash through the center of the enemy encampment in the dome, Hmask is the only one who is able to stay with him. When Adolin falls during a fight with Abidi, Hmask puts himself in between them. I mean.... Due to language barrier, we don't see them actually conversing all that much, but I hope to see more of that in the future!

#8: Adolin & Zabra

Zabra is a new character in Wind & Truth, a small girl who tries to dress as a boy to join the army, but is helped by Adolin to find other ways of fighting beyond, like, being in a pike block. And now she's a member of the Unoathed! We didn't see as much of this particular friendship in Wind and Truth, but I liked Zabra and I look forward to seeing more of their interactions.

#7: Adolin & May

Speaking of members of the Unoathed...May Aladar was sure a surprise favorite for me! I liked that she and Adolin did not have the best relationship to start--given that he kinda sorta dated her, I guess--but that over the course of the book even she could not resist the Power of Adolin Friendship.

#6: Adolin & Syl

It was just a brief moment in Wind and Truth, but I loved how Adolin was so delighted by Syl's new fashion choices, and their brief but earnest conversation about it. Hell yeah! I want to see more of Adolin and Syl bonding over clothing and fashion history and helping Kaladin. I haven't forgotten that when Syl needed someone to help Kaladin without being intimidated, she went straight for Adolin. A-And, I know that Syl is also not around anymore, but in the event that she and Kaladin come back, I'd really like to see more of her and Adolin being friends.

#5: Adolin & Nightblood

I was so charmed by: "We chat about swords. He likes swords." When did Adolin & Nightblood chat??? Was it during meetings while Szeth was skulking in a corner?? Do Adolin & Nightblood just have a silent, telepathic conversation whenever they're in the same room together?? I don't know, but I desperately need more of it. Leave it to Adolin to befriend the soul-eating-possibly-evil-magical-sword because, well, it's a sword. Swords are cool.

#4: Adolin & Rlain

I don't honestly recall if Adolin & Rlain have really interacted yet? But given that Rlain is now dating Adolin's brother, I really do want to see Adolin & Rlain become closer. Both Adolin & Rlain are good at understanding other people's perspectives, at bridging difficult social gaps. Together they shall be an Unstoppable Force of Friendship!

#3: Adolin & Yanagawn

I really loved the development of Adolin & Yanagawn's friendship in Wind & Truth. Adolin recognized that this isolated kid needed a friend, and he provided it, despite, you know, everything else going on during Adolin's chapters in Wind & Truth. Leave it to Adolin to see through the layers of pomp & circumstance & bureaucracy and recognize that this guy needed to learn how to play Towers. Especially since Adolin appears to be staying (?) in Azir for now, I'm looking forward to seeing more of this in books to come.

#2:Adolin & Notum

Notum ranks high on this list in part because I think I'm just interested in Notum: a spren who wants to fight in the human realm but does not want to swear oaths with a Radiant. And in being that way, he is such a fascinating parallel with Adolin himself, who also refuses to swear oaths with a spren despite forming incredibly close relationships of trust with so many of them. I definitely want to see more of these two!

#1: Adolin & Maya

But the #1 friendship I want to see more of has got to be Adolin & Maya. Those two were AWESOME in Wind & Truth, from their close bond of trust, to Maya calling Adolin a slut. I love how Maya is developing into what I read as a sarcastic butch, and that is exactly the BFF I want Adolin to have. Super excited to see more of them in, uh, a few years? Whenever we get the next Stormlight book?

I can maintain my excitement until then.

[thatboreddrake]

So a while back I finished the third book of the Stormlight Archives, Oathbringer. As I was thinking back over the characters and plotlines, it occurred to me, "It's all about pain, isn't it." Each of the major plot beats seem to focus on how characters deal with and cope with their own personal pains.

Adolin is dealing with the feeling that he has betrayed everything that he and his father stood for, but he can't bring himself to feel guilty about it. Shallan is dealing with everything that happened in her childhood and feeling as though it was all her fault. Dalinar has to deal with the pain of the fact that he killed his wife and put an entire city to the sword: men, women, and children. Venli is dealing with the fact that her sister, her people, and everyone that she's ever known has died, and it's all her fault. Teft is still struggling with the guilt of bringing death to his whole family. Kaladin is dealing with the same darkness that nearly led him to cast himself into the chasm and feels powerless to prevent the deaths of those he feels responsible for. Moash is wrestling with the fact that he betrayed Kaladin: the only person who he feels was ever worthy of his respect or loyalty.

And each of them deals with the pain in their own ways. Adolin puts on a brave face and desperately tries to pretend that he's the same person as he always has been, despite the turmoil that is eating him alive. Shallan retreats further into the protection of disguises, faces, new personas, in a bid to be anybody but herself, anyone but the person who feels her pain. In his flashbacks, Dalinar nearly drinks himself to death in a vain attempt to drown the memories of those he murdered. Venli throws herself into her work, determined that she is going to make her people's sacrifice mean something. Teft falls into a depression and isolates himself from Bridge Four to prevent them from seeing his pain and his shame. Kaladin tries desperately to push it all down and focus on the next mission to keep himself from having the time to dwell on everything that he has lost. And Moash tries to rationalize his actions, convincing himself that the whole world is broken. Just like him.

And in the end, none of these coping mechanisms help them to move forward or deal with their pain. So long as they hold onto them, they only prolong their suffering. Adolin's conflict is only resolved when he finally comes clean to Shallan and receives her confirmation that he did the right thing. Shallan comes inches away from completely losing herself to her illusions until Hoid confronts her and asserts that, no matter what has happened and what she has done, she must never believe that she deserves to hurt. Venli has to mentally break from the work of the Fused and, with the prompting of Timbre, instead take the next step to try and rebuild what she has lost. Teft is forced to confront his own self-loathing and affirm that he will protect those he hates, even if the one he hates the most is himself. Moash falls fully into his self-rationalization and refuses to accept the idea that he could still change for the better.

Kaladin... well, Kaladin doesn't overcome his pain here. When he comes to the critical moment, he knows what he has to do to move on and become a better man. But he can't. Instead, he is forced to reckon with the fact that, despite his best efforts, sometimes all he can do is to take a step back and let somebody else save him. But that doesn't mean that he's any closer to accepting and healing from the pain of losing the ones he swore to protect.

In this, Kaladin's character mirrors that of Amaram, in a way. In their fight, Kaladin forces Amaram to strip away his rationalizations. Despite all his talk of working for the greater good of Roshar, Amaram still has to deal with the pain of the damage which his actions have inflicted on others. But instead of learning from his pain, he gladly surrenders it to Odium's reassurance: "You didn't do this. I made you do this. It wasn't your fault."

And all of this is what makes the conclusion of Dalinar's arc so powerful in this book. Dalinar, who so recently had to come to terms with a crushing amount of pain. Who once more was faced with a truth that in the past had driven him to self-destruction and desperation. Dalinar, who, despite all his attempts to be a better person, has to reckon with the fact that he has wrought untold amounts of death and destruction on people whose only crime was being in his way. And when he is given Odium's same offer? The choice to surrender his pain, his choice, his responsibility? He gives but one response: "YOU CANNOT HAVE MY PAIN"

Because in the end, it's all about pain. How we deal with it. How we accept responsibility and move on with our lives. Because the pain will never truly leave us. All that is left for us, then, is to turn the pain into a spark. To let it light a fire beneath our feet, that we may be a better person tomorrow than we were today.