#spirk meta

[hollowwhisperings]

VLD Retrospective: My POV as a Queer Biracial Asian Aspie

I don't generally enjoy listing my demographics in public spaces but for a Voltron Retrospective, I find it Quite Necessary to better convey how much VLD meant to me personally. This is one fan reconciling with a work I enjoyed for years, remain saddened for, and felt betrayed by. lf I'm good for anything, it's my being a Living Statistical Outlier.

VLD gave me explicit representation within its main cast: it gave me Shiro, who I clocked as chronically ill well before it was confirmed (Like Knows Like) & struggled with mental illness too (I'm not a war vet but Shiro's implicit Medical Trauma was Also There). Shiro is also, very obviously, an Asian &, as later revealed, a Queer Asian. There are few Queer Asians in western media who are Actual Characters: Shiro was (& remains) fun to have on board. It was, primarily, his struggles with his physical & mental health that most resonated with me.

Pidge is someone a lot of fans identified with, being a quirky genderbender maligned for her relative youth: I'm an autistic female who is gender "meh" so Pidge was "Representation" but she wasn't New nor Almost Unprecedented like Shiro or, as I'll elaborate further on, Keith. Every AFAB, every youth has felt undermined by their assumed gender & their youth: this is Not New. Pidge is fun but she wasn't Groundbreaking, not to me.

Keith and, to a lesser degree (as in assocoation with him), the "Half-Galra" Misfits were who I most identified with. Even before Keith was having Existential Crises over being Half-Galra, Keith read as someone biracial: his name, "Keith Kogane", makes him a white-passing Asian . I think current consensus is that Keith's Dad was "Mixed Asian*" but Keith's "orphan" (& secret alien) status prevented him from engaging with his heritage.

I am Not Galran (so far as I know) but I am a white-passing Asian & someone of "Two Worlds" (half white, half east asian). Star Trek's Spock established how most subsequent works of the sci-fi genre depicts half-human aliens: all the vibes of being Biracial, existential crises about Passing & feeling Disconnected ("rejected") by either/both halves of one's identity. Keith checks those boxes and Lotor's Halfsie Squad are similarly Coded (to lesser degrees).

Aliens, half-human ones especially, are very easily read as Neurodivergent as in "has ADHD &/or ASD": Keith continued this tradition & it further isolated him from his peers, especially because (like many of us on The Spectrum) he grew up "Undiagnosed". Keith knew he was Different but no one had the correct Context for his "Difference": this lead him to feeling Wrong, Rejected and Alien. This is an experience Familiar to anyone belatedly recognised as having ASD and also to Literally Any Queer Person.

To summarize the above: Shiro meant A Lot to me because he struggled with his health in silence (& was Asian); Keith meant a lot because his Human Demographics & Coding match almost entirely with my own. Shiro became "more" Important to me through his being Keith's Most Important Person (KH fans: you see where this is going): I was already Attached to Shiro, Keith made me invested in him.

KH fans knew from my invoking of "Taihetsu no Hito" [JP for "Most Important Person"] that, through being Invested in Keith & thus Shiro, I quickly Recognised that Keith? Desperately in love with Shiro. I did not, however, consider Shiro likely to Act on any Reciprocating of such feelings (which he did show signs of developing, as early on as that Stranded From Everyone Else and "when I die, you be Black Paladin" episode) due to the implied age gap between them. I knew Shiro was Younger Than Assumed (very early 20's at oldest, I figured from Contextual Clues), that Lance & Hunk were about 17 & that Keith was Older than Lance (so, 18). The age gap between Shiro & Keith was never that much of an issue: it was their difference in Rank & the ages they were at their First Meeting that were the "real" obstscles, to my mind. Season 6 or 7 did a Flashback that made Keith 14 when he first met Shiro: that very much explains why Shiro was reluctant to acknowledge attraction to Keith & unlikely to act on it. Keith did, however, read as Crushing On Shiro pretty much from their first encounter (Keith stealing Shiro's car was a very obvious effort to gain Shiro's attention & respect: something Keith was unlikely to recognise as Crush Evidence but Shiro definitely did).

And then Shiro lost 3 years to Time Dilation while Keith gained 2: their Reunion post-Space Whale was very telling. For the first time, Sheith actually seemed genuinely plausible to me. Keith had had a Glow Up that allowed Shiro to stop thinking of Keith as the kid he'd been when they first met & actually admit that his excuses to not act on any attraction had stopped holding weight. I remain completely convinced that "Kuron" had fallen, equally & just as desperately, in love with Keith over the series and that the Aggression Kuron exhibited toward Keith was as much caused by That (Gay Pining he refused to act on, even as Keith ran around in his Infamous Blades Uniform) as it was by Haggar (& Kuron's growing suspicions on his "true" nature).

Then there was the "You're my brother... I love you!" scene. Initially, given The Current Events of the time, I was irritated by the Abrupt Brother-Zoning from the Very Obviously Pining Keith to Shiro.

Then I noticed the order of these sentences: first, "you're my brother" (neither Shiro nor Keith have any siblings: in asia, there's MLM equivalent to "they were Roommates" in "they're sword/sworn brothers") and THEN, more desperately and while at the cusp of death... "I love you".

VERY ON BRAND, KEITH. It's also the "I love you" that gets through Kuron's programming enough for Keith to save them both. From my observations of VLD, the sole remaining obstacles to Sheith sailing were "will Shiro retain Kuron's memories and, if so, will he accept Kuron as being another Him" and "will the writers be able to get the execs to sign off on TWO queer paladins being queer with EACH OTHER"?

and then... the love confession was never addressed & Shiro stopped interacting with any of the Paladins beyond a professional setting.

By then, a lot of the show was looking Off and I actually looked at the online Voltron fandom to see if other people were Connecting Dots: some Meddling had happened, Shiro was being OOC as all heck, Allura and Keith seemed pretty miserable, Romelle was Sus as Heck, why was Allurance happening, where the heck is Lotor (etc)....

I was, like everyone else, greatly upset by Allura's needlessly being Killed Off and by Shiro's Stock Photo husband. I was also Not Impressed by the alleged "happiness" found by any of the Paladins: Shiro retiring his greatest dream, of flying and exploring the galaxy when he had just found out he Wasn't Going To Die from his Chronic Illness? Jim Kirk, another charismatic spaceship captain who loved to explore the universe, had a similar "retirement" ending for its Heroic Captain.

The first Star Trek film, set post-series, conveyed exactly how Shiro's "happy" ending played out for a character Shiro was almost certainly inspred by: Captain James "Jim" Tiberius Kirk.

Captain Kirk's "happy ending" was introduced in TMP as being: a promotion/retirement, marriage, & settling on Earth. Sound familiar, Shiro? TMP then shows how that "happy ending" plays out for someone like Jim (or Shiro): barely a handful of years later, Jim is miserable in his "retirement" (he was Promoted to a desk job); his Very Sudden marriage to a Previously Unknown Character is crumbling (& is even implied as being arranged by Starfleet's Brass to keep their Poster Boy on earth!); he clearly misses his Team (his Found Family) & at his first "valid" opportunity to get his Team together to fly into space again? That's exactly what Jim does.

Star Trek: TMP also, incidentally, features Jim living out some kind of Space Divorce Drama with his Right-Hand Man, the Half-Human Alien Spock. The two had apparently spent all those years apart and Spocks's "logical response" to [everything post-TOS] was... becoming a Vulcan Monk in order to Purge All His Emotions. (Krolia, please tell me that the Galra do not have an Equivalent to Vulcan's kolinahr & that, if it DOES, you Forbade Keith From Doing It).

Jim & Kirk saved each other, often very impossibly, in every other episode of TOS. They were also so widely shipped by fans that the "founding" of modern fandom cukture is often attributed to those first K/S shippers.

The easy Parallels between Spock/Kirk to Keith/Shiro were something that seemed to increase as VLD continued, likely as its creative team started recognising how naturally Keith & Shiro played out that epic space romance. The relationship between the Black Paladins was consistently emphasized within the series (until it abruptly Wasn't) and their bond was considered the strongest shared by any two paladins. A Sheith required very little effort from VLD's creative team and, given the Time Dilation plot point, that effort WAS made: Keith shows up Older & Blade-ier, Shiro Visibly Reacts and seems perfectly set up to Reevaluate his relationship with Keith, both of them visibly Adult and already established as "Equals".

Reading the research done by Team Purple Lion helped me understand the many degrees of unpleasantness caused by the Forced Removal of Lotor from VLD's endgame: the series' overall plot, key themes and multiple character arcs were contingent to the ugly consequences of Voltron's [murdering] him, the emotional effects Lotor had on Allura, the ways Lotor was integral to the show's themes of Redemption & Recovery & Love (of all forms). Just about every main character (and the imexplicable presence of several other characters) had their Arc underminded by Lotor's staying [murdered]: Lotor (obvs), Allura (VLD's Actual Main Character), Lance (who suddenly became Every Creepy "Nice" Guy), Pidge, Axca, Romelle, Merla, Yzor & her girlfriend, Honnerva...

I was invested in the plot, characters and themes of VLD: its ending wasn't just upsetting, it was contradictory to its own story. Though I am not invested in any VLD ships other than Sheith (for the way the characters are individually Important to me, the ways Shiro is important to Keith, the ways their relationship parallels K/S down to the syllables), the series had set certain ships up through its Themes and within its plot: Allura/Lotor, a reclamation of Allura's agency & a thematic resolution to the major conflicts of the series; Shiro/Keith, a love story the series spent 7 seasons telling; the tentative beginnings of Lance/Pidge, a Chekhov's Gun that would round their individual character development through better understanding each other; Hunk & Recognition of his Ingenuity, Bravery, Compassion (which would, incidentally, feature Hunk/Shay and Hunk's central role in the intergalactic Recovery proces). All of these ships serve a Purpose within VLD's plot, aid individual character development, reinforce the series' overarching themes, and have a solid basis within the text of VLD (as well as outside of it, in interviews and statements from the creative team).

I was able to "recover" from the betrayal of how VLD ended, largely through the detective work of fans like Team Purple Lion and reading many "fix-fic" wherein Allura Lives and Shiro is not OOC as all heck. VLD was one of many series, at the time, whose Betrayal of its themes & characters made Waves all over Fandom. It was, however, one of the Betrayals that hurt me more "personally". It was also a fantastic example of Creatives having horrid working conditions, Corporate Interests actively Hurting their consumers, of Fans being forced to Play Detective due to the modern Media Landscape: the culture of creatives being under strict NDAs, of their being without Unions, of how abruptly Projects can be undermined by the Whims of singular entities (creating additional work on an already overworked labour force, often in ways that betray their own work).

So, uh, surprise: this was a Retrospective inspired by the current Writers Strike & growing awareness (that we have known & ignored for years) of how unethical the working standards of animators are. There are Actual Americans and Actual Artists who can speak on these issues more specifically, as well as the best ways to help the affected: this was a more individual Take, from One Fan, and the ways that media has affected That Fan emotionally (though, being an Aspie, i'm pretty distanced from articulating any Specifics beyond "upset" because "this is narratively inconsistent"). The purpose of writing this was personal catharsis, a means of discovering how I feel about VLD all these years later, and perhaps as an act of microcosm within a greater fandom macrosm RE: engagement with media & correctly identifying how the faults of its business structure sabotage excellent works of fiction from staying "excellent" or becoming "magnificent".

*"Korean-Japanese" seems to ne the current consensus but as Sourced outside the text of the series. It is not his "exact amounts of Asian" that Keith is "relevant" to me but his being both Mixed & disconnected from his asian Heritage.

[thegeminisage]

i'm just going to go ahead and make this its own post. when kirk teases spock he is SO GENTLE. "why mister spock are you feeling emotion?" and he lets spock do the vulcan equivalent of giggling and kicking his feet and going "haha nooo silly i'm a VULCAN i don't do that!!" and kirk's like "oh my apologies mister spock of COURSE not" and then they make consensual loving eyecontact with one another while smiling. when BONES senses blood in the water (spock having an emotion) he will grab spock by the scruff of his fucking neck and shake until dead. like a dog with a squirrel.

[mischievous-thunder]

Did Wade really think that Logan was going to let him do this? All alone?

This was the very moment when realisation came crashing down on both of them that they wouldn't be able to live without each other. So, they saved the world together and in turn saved their souls.

[tprings-hair]

I'm going to say something about the new unification short film that I haven't seen anyone here say yet.

I love the handholding scene. massively impactful. I love the echo of "this simple feeling" from the motion picture and the genesis reference and the idea that spock did not die alone or among strangers. it's just so satisfying after all this time to know that even shatner knew it was wrong and needed to be approached with more compassion for nimoy and the fans who loved these characters and knew they should be together at the end, whatever that looked like.

but you know what really got me?

this minute or so. kirk confronting his old selves. because that's obviously original series kirk right there in the gold uniform.

and the other? THAT'S HIM!!

(I'm linking it this way because you apparently can't add more than one video to a post and I need it here for demonstration.)

so we have present kirk walking down a dark hallway. at the end is spock, but at the end is also spock's death. how can he step forward and face that? what happened to the way he used to think about death?

yellow shirt is TOS kirk, who had always found a way around the problem and never (if the movies are to be believed) had to face death straight on. he's looking forward with confidence. there's no way spock is dying. there's a way out of this somehow, if only he can find it.

TOS kirk looks back the way he came, because he believes he can go back. he can always go back. the series always resets to the same characters who can be depended on to take similar actions, because that's what a serial is, and that's who he is. things have taken their toll on him, but he knows he can take the hit and keep moving.

but he stops when he's faces with WOK kirk. the one in the red dress uniform, who has lost spock and knows what it is to live without him. who has faced death in a way he had never had to before, because the constraints of the series never allowed it. he has been changed because of it.

TOS kirk sees that, and does that sort of posturing that he always does in front of someone who's threatening him. but WOK kirk isn't threatening him. he's just living through something TOS kirk hasn't had to face yet. it's him staring his past self in the face and telling him, kindly and firmly, you know nothing about how it will feel. you will never be the same without him.

and TOS kirk looks back again, and there's a present kirk, wearing his generations uniform. this is kirk having turned that grief to a desperate search for the most important person in his life, and emerged with spock by his side. he's not the same, but he's made it through. of course TOS kirk would look to that.

and as our kirk looks at these people he used to be, they vanish in front of him. he remembers the way he used to think about losing spock. the fear, the grief, the hope. there's no hope left. when he reaches the end, spock will be there, and it will be their last time together.

but he puts the pin back on, and reminds himself of his duty not just to a fellow officer, but to a friend, to the most important person in his life, and to himself. spock should not be alone, and he never got to say goodbye properly before. doing it now is the least he can do.

that's his ultimate responsibility in that moment: being there for spock. that's been his ultimate responsibility from the beginning. and this is shatner acknowledging that they deserved an ending that fit that truth.

[wwillywonka]

rewatching where no man has gone before and it's wild how different spock's characterisation is in this versus the rest of the series. like i know logically (haha) that the episode was so early that the show and nimoy didn't really have a grasp on the character yet (made evident by the "one of my ancestors married a human woman" line), but it also strikes me that this is technically kirk's first episode in timeline (production) order, meaning jim and spock have barely started to get to know each other. it's obvious from the chess game that they're already very close and likely have been joined at the hip since their very first meeting, so i like to think that spock is almost, ya know, giddy at this point, adjusting to the comforting warmth and joy and security he feels just by being around jim all the time because it's all so new, because he's never had anything like this before. spock likes jim so much and so immediately and wants to get to know him better and feels safe enough around him to let jim get to know him better, too. the interaction at the end, "i felt for him, too" and "there might be some hope for you yet, mr. spock." followed by a very not-subtle, fond smile from our dear vulcan first officer, just stands out so much against the rest of the series. young spock and his brand new blossoming crush for his captain and he hasn't gotten to the point where he's afraid of those feelings yet, just basking in how nice it feels to have a proper friend. so damn cute. it fills me with butterflies.

[teacup-gathering-itself]

The depth of Kirk being a big himbo in his slut era all the time in a very overt human way, while also being a huge nerd brainiac supercomputer on legs.

Contrasting Spock, who is a supercomputer on legs, but ALSO a big himbo in his slut era in a very overt Vulcan way.

Proof: He is so TOUCHY with his captain. He lets touch be a staple in their relationship and just. Doesn’t mention its significance to his culture. Lets people think it’s just him “putting up with” his captain. To non-Vulcans, sure that excuse works. But any Vulcan with working eyes knows what he’s up to. They’re silently scandalized.

[dustykneed]

prompt fill for @mcspirkevents' mcspirk bingo prompt "who did this to you?"

[thomas-jefferson-miku-binder]

Something about how Jim became so accustomed to Starfleet parlance that it’s the only parlance he can speak at all. Something about how his relationship with his ship and his work as Captain extends to language as well, to the way he handles and expresses his emotions.

Amok Time – Kirk is confronted with the fact Spock keeps a dangerous secret that, if not shared, might end up with his first officer killed

The Apple – With the landing party marooned on a strange planet and the USS Enterprise being pulled ever closer to the ground, Kirk asks Scotty something beyond excellence.

The Doomsday Machine – Commodore Matt Decker stands in the maw of a monster with a dead crew and stripped of any will to live. Kirk tries to bring his old friend to reason, but nothing else can be done for Decker as he looks death in the eye.

I understand how, especially in the third instance with Matt Decker, he might've seemed cold (your buddy is about to off himself, and you remind him the higher-ups spent too much money on his formation), but I see it more as Kirk trying to ground both himself and his friend (who is also a Commodore, might I remind you) than simply reducing Decker to his position.

It also accidentally reveals a lot about Jim (although reveal is not the best word, as that same thought has been explored in numerous episodes before), how much his sense of worth is tied to his job—to how well he can perform and excel at it.

But that's not all he's saying. In both instances (Amok Time and Doomsday Machine), Kirk puts himself in the Federation's place because he sees its recognition as more valuable, more "worth living for" than his own.

It's his way, the way of a man who knows no life other than that of servitude, of saying I care about you, and I don't want to lose you.

It's really tragic that it is not enough to save Decker. If both Matt and Jim share the belief (which appears more often than not in Starfleet overachievers) that your inner worth is tied to how well you can perform it, Matt is left face to face with the rather morbid fact that he failed severely and his whole crew is dead because of it.

To sin is human, yes, but if the Doomsday Machine is the Devil, as the Commodore himself put it, it truly is a shame Decker did not view himself as deserving of forgiveness

[sapsuckers-and-stardust]

I feel like discourse about soulmates really cheapens a lot of what I (and I think many other people) love about Kirk and Spock's relationship to each other.

The biggest thing for me is that soulmates are boring. Love isn’t fated (fate isn’t real); it’s hard work. Like to use Spirk as an example, the idea of them being destined to be together is boring. Especially because they weren’t. At the start of TOS, both men are neurotic, closed off, and incapable of being in a relationship with anyone. Their love story is so beautiful because they have to change and grow to be with each other, and despite their obvious affection for each other, them ending up together is NOT a forgone conclusion. They have to work and fight, not only external threats but internal obstacles to be together and love one another. That is the entire climax of their arc from “The Naked Time” in TOS to “this simple feeling” in TMP to their reunion and reconnection in The Search for Spock and The Voyage Home.

Idk to me the idea that “they’re one soul, destined to be together in every universe, forever intertwined blah blah blah” is so… uninteresting. So many depictions of love in media are boring (and unrealistic).

The interesting thing is that these two damaged, hurt men worked so hard to love each other. In a way they changed their entire lives and who they were to be BETTER for each other.

Like. We know Spock had to learn to accept his humanity and emotions and that is a beautifully told story. But! Kirk also has to radically change himself.

In the beginning of TOS he keeps going on about being married (and in many ways chained) to his ship because of his duty as a captain and we see him very actively sabotage and deny himself affection from Rand and (many) other women in the name of keeping himself apart and committed to the service. Then after the development of his relationship with Spock, cut to TSFS and he literally steals and then BLOWS UP the Enterprise, knowing he's not only destroying his entire career and life's work but very literally the ship he has loved and adoringly served on for decades. All for Spock!

Like to me the work, the grit, the determination to survive and keep the other alive is what makes them so enduring in fandom. These men don't even really know themselves or what they want from life when we meet them but by the end of it all it is obvious that their relationship to each other is one of the core pillars of their raison d'être.

[onwhatcaptain]

To Star Trek TOS fans that say "TOS was so bad, but I love it."

One thing I noticed is that Star Trek TOS fans really will throw their own show under the bus out of pure self-consciousness. Star Trek TOS fans hate themselves a bit and will immediately make it known so others won't attack them for liking it, as if pre-emptively admitting TOS was bad will protect them from any criticism of it. They'll be like "yeah I know it's garbage YEAH everything sucks the plots the costumes the effects the acting blah blah BUT I LOVE IT!"

I mean, not really. Actually, I don't think it's bad. I think plenty of it is fantastic and has some misses and moments that warrant criticism... like everything does.

But frankly, it's no worse than shows they make today. I mean, Riverdale exists. Even Star Trek today can be garbage, like the SNW episode where they said Spock's bowl cut and every single Vulcan behavior is genetic.

You're allowed to like TOS, people. It's really not that bad and tbh the insistence that it was just awful totally contributes to the popular culture image of the whole womanizing rash captain in space concept. Star Trek TOS was great. The costumes and the effects and yes, the acting. Star Trek would not have survived without every single aspect you insist is really bad. I have no idea why we insist on being embarrassed. The effects and costumes were actually fantastic given what they were working with. Let's not be so quick to admit that TOS was shit but we love it. We love the fun, the characters like our lovely and amazing Uhura, Chekov, Scotty, the plots, we love the intense chemistry between the leads and if you're in the same circles as me then, especially K/S, and there's a lot to love—and plenty that was good.

It was good and we love it.

[pavel-chekov-appreciator]

The thing about Spirk and canon is. Spock loves Kirk So Much. And Kirk also loves Spock So Much. This isn’t subtext this is just text.

But.

They are also both So Afraid of their own happiness.

Spock for The Obvious Reasons Presented In The Text (feelings are shameful, feelings are scary, feelings are dangerous, if I allow myself to love him how I want to it will consume me)

And Kirk because Trauma, because He Loses People He Loves, because deep down he self sabotages and doesn’t think he deserves or is meant to have happiness. His deep surety that he will die alone becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

So they go their whole lives orbiting each other, but they never allow themselves to be truly together, truly happy, and torture themselves and each other with close-enough, good-enough, friendship-is-enough. Because they’re both so, so scared of what being More would mean.

It’s just life-long mutual pining.

[wwillywonka]

SPOCK: CHILD OF TWO WORLDS

[your-name-is-jim]

"Ted, why doesn't Spock die when he doesn't get laid?"

Listen, I have to make a post about this because I'm laughing out loud :D

In 1967, Gene L. Coon (Star Trek showrunner) wrote to Theodore Sturgeon after reading the first draft of Amok Time:

First of all, Ted, let me say that we are all generally pleased with the first draft of "Amok Time," although, of course, a certain amount of polishing and so on will be necessary. [...] We have to learn why Spock will die if he doesn't get to Vulcan in eight days. What kills him? Swollen gonads?... [And] since we have established that Spock either gets to Vulcan within eight days or dies, why doesn't he do so when he doesn't get married or laid? We must establish a sound explanation and have it explained or a lot of people will be unhappy with us…

The source unfortunately doesn't report if Sturgeon ever gave an answer about this. We just know that in the actual episode we never got it.

What I find hilarious is that Coon was worried about a lot of people potentially being unhappy about the lack of "a sound explanation"… But what actually happened is that a lot of people found their own based on what we saw on screen… aaand they wrote and drew a lot about it :)

[spockandstars]

I was thinking about how Spock is intentionally paralleled with Sydney Carton from A Tale of Two Cities in The Wrath of Khan, and now I am unwell!

At the beginning of the movie, Spock famously gives Kirk A Tale of Two Cities as a birthday present. This book was specifically included for its themes of sacrifice and resurrection, which obviously mirror Spock’s decision to give up his life to save the crew. Notably, Kirk’s final lines reference the famous closing of the novel.

Kirk: It is a far, far better thing I do than I have ever done before... a far better resting in place I go to than I have ever known...

Carol: is that a poem?

Kirk: Something Spock was trying to tell me. On my birthday.

So what’s the importance of this line? The famous “far better thing” quote is from the book’s ending when Carton has just sacrificed himself for his beloved Lucie, giving himself up to be executed in place of her husband so that she may find happiness. (Live long and prosper, anyone?)

Interestingly, both Spock and Carton are emotionally repressed characters, and anguish over the depth of their love for the people who uniquely see them for who they are — in this case, Jim and Lucie. While I’d argue that Spock is more at peace with himself and his feelings for Jim after the events of the first movie, the point still stands that Jim is the one to truly understand him in a world that labels him as a cold and calculating being.

I believe that this is what Kirk’s line calling Spock’s soul “the most human I have ever encountered,” is supposed to represent. (Even though I agree with the criticism that it could have been worded better!) Similarly, Lucie is the one to recognize Carton’s inner nature in spite of his aloof facade, begging “I would ask you to believe that [Carton] has a heart he very, very seldom reveals, and that there are deep wounds in it.” (Book 2, Chapter 20.)

When Carton finally admits his love to Lucie, it’s hard not to see the resemblance to Spock’s dilemma in the first movie. You know, that time when Spock, in his heartbreak over something related to Jim (that were not given an explanation for), cries out “Jim! Good-bye my . . . my t’hy’la. This is the last time I will permit myself to think of you or even your name again!” before attempting to purge himself of all feelings in an ancient ritual, and failing because the Vulcan priestess can totally sense that he’s still thinking about Kirk. (Yup, that totally straight time!)

Well, Carton is in a similarly agonizing predicament, because he can’t get his feelings for Lucie to go away. He tells her, “I break down before the knowledge of what I want to say to you” and “I have had the weakness, and have still the weakness, to wish you to know with what a sudden mastery you kindled me, heap of ashes that I am, into fire—a fire, however, inseparable in its nature from myself, quickening nothing, lighting nothing, doing no service, idly burning away.” (Book 2, Chapter 13)

He also expresses that he could never separate his love for her from himself, saying that “Within myself, I shall always be, towards you, what I am now.” (Book 2, Chapter 13) Yeah, I know the fact this mirrors Spock’s famous “I have been and always shall be yours” is probably a coincidence, but I’ll be damned if I don’t mention it.

Finally, Carton expresses his love for her in his willingness to sacrifice himself for her sake: “For you, and for any dear to you, I would do anything. If my career were of that better kind that there was any opportunity or capacity of sacrifice in it, I would embrace any sacrifice for you and for those dear to you… there is a man who would give his life, to keep a life you love beside you!” (Book 2, Chapter 13.) Of course, Carton’s story ends when he sacrifices himself for her, fulfilling this promise. Hmm, now who else does that sound like?

This is definitely not a perfect parallel: Spock doesn’t start out as a lazy alcoholic, although there is an argument to be made that Carton’s low self-worth reflects Spock’s before he went on his conversion therapy fueled journey of self discovery. Additionally, I wouldn’t say that Spock’s love for Kirk is unrequited like Carton’s for Lucie, (as evidenced by many things, but I’ll primarily point to the events of The Motion Picture and The Search for Spock), but you could potentially cast Carol in the role of Darnay, Lucie’s husband.

The most important thing to glean from this is that Spock was very deliberately set up to be the Carton figure, which is interesting given that Carton’s actions are driven by his willingness to do anything to see his beloved be happy and prosper.

[onwhatcaptain]

@flippyspoon I really like these tags and I want to expand on them!

The wider implications of Spock doing such a thing are extremely interesting to me. And I also do like to think of it as an enormous overstep that would have consequences, rather than something Kirk wants him to do. We think of Kirk and Spock as soulmates (and they are)—but this doesn't make their relationship without conflict, or difficulty.

Spock is very used to suppressing and sublimating difficult emotions. For him, not having to feel his emotions is easier than dealing with them head-on, to the point where an ethical overstep might actually be preferable for him to confront.

In the fic I'm currently publishing, I wrote that it wasn't the first time Spock had done something like this without Kirk's awareness. (Saying so actually even made some reader on AO3 get mad about it, but I think that's a story for another day.) A lot of us think that Spock has a strict moral code, therefore he does not make mistakes or err in human ways. While the former is true, the latter is not. If Spock's moral code includes helping his closest friend (which it absolutely does), then he would believe that he had done the right thing for Kirk.

Many have also argued that he is not erasing the memory, but the pain, or dulling it. The simplest, most straightforward way to interpret the scene is that he's erasing the memory, so I'm sticking with that. It's canon that Spock thinks erasing the memory is an act of love—

MCCOY: [...] You see, I feel sorrier for you than I do for him because you'll never know the things that love can drive a man to. The ecstasies, the miseries, the broken rules, the desperate chances, the glorious failures, the glorious victories. All of these things you'll never know simply because the word love isn't written into your book. Goodnight, Spock. SPOCK: Goodnight, Doctor. MCCOY: I do wish he could forget her. (McCoy leaves. Spock goes over to Kirk and initiates a mind meld) SPOCK: Forget.

And I would argue this is an act of love. It absolutely is. But it's also Spock thinking he knows what's better for Jim. And maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But he doesn't actually give Kirk a choice, and that's where the overstep is. We see that in Star Trek V, Kirk considers his pain a really essential part of who he is, and wouldn’t want that changed:

KIRK: You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand. They're things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away. I need my pain.

Anyways, this is getting long, but the implications of such an overstep are worth exploring and I love to see fanon tackle those difficult moments in their relationship. In my own work I used it to talk about Spock's martyr-like tendencies, his self-directed hatred, his need to protect others from feeling pain, all while holding onto it himself:

But I think there are so many interesting ways to explore the deeper consequences of this for their relationship, because, for Spock at this stage in his life, it would be logical to believe that mistakes and difficult emotions, if they could be undone, should.

spock erasing kirk's memory in 3x19 while he's asleep has so much implications. Is this the first time he's done so? If not, then how many other memories of kirk has he erased because kirk expressed wanting to forget? Is kirk the only person he erases the memories of?

[woman-of-many-fandoms]

My Vulcan/Spock/other head canons and general thoughts:

Vulcans:

With Vulcans being stronger, their utensils are heavier and harder for humans of average strength to use

They have more children than the average human couple but spaced out due to longer life spans and wanting to fully devote themselves to their kids. The emphasis is on properly raising the kids you have. They are considered better parents then human.

Their bond with their babies allows them to know what the baby need before they can speak 

Since they age slower, they are also youths for longer.  An 18-year-old Vulcan is not the same maturity wise as an 18-year-old human. Spock ages like a human

A parent with poorly raised / poorly educated child is judged. Sarek takes this personally.

They have a green tint in the same area humans have a pink tint (corners of eyes, finger beds, tongue, ect) Those with white skin are have a green-ish undertone.

When in space, they can’t have a fully human diet (even without the meat) or they will get iron poisoning, or end up with extremely low copper levels 

While female humans have the hardest time biologically, it the males in Vulcan society. The males are the only ones who go through pon farr. The women don’t have periods.

After the kids are paired up, they generally don’t meet again or ‘date’ until it’s pon farr time. I was not feeling the whole ‘engagement ritual’ with T’pring’s parents

During adolescents before they can fully control their emotion they do act out and have crushes. This is expected to be controlled by their 40s.

Vulcan / non Vulcan hybrid are not fertile unless the other pairing is Romulan 

Vulcans have green lips but it’s their style to wear red

Make up and fancy hair dos are considered meditative

Vulcans have larger ships so they have private spaces to meditate 

Spock:

Spock’s family is basically aristocracy but with content drama that upsets the status quo. I agree with the post that said if Amanda married a random Vulcan farmer they wouldn’t care but she married Sarek.

This is also why Spock Pon Farr was considered scandalous and most people on Vulcan know what happened.

Spock’s a designer baby

Sarek and Amanda tried several times for a child before having success with Spock

Sarek is not a bad dad but doesn’t understand his child and pushes him in ways that are not supportive

Sarek and Spock are both girl dads

TOS Spock never had romantic relationships prior to TOS, he also didn’t have friends on Pikes enterprise 

AOS Spock got with Uhura because T’pring’s family rejected Spock due to Vulcans becoming even more racist after Nero and Spock decided to woo the first woman who seemed interested

The Vulcans in AOS would not match with Spock after Nero because they would want to rebuild the population so even if Spock could have kids, he’d ‘taint’ the bloodline

Spock’s home is one of the oldest in the city and made of stone. Not the Boston style house we saw in DIS

SNW Spock was more emotional rather than less after become human because Vulcans  have an area of the brain they use to control emotions, the Cthia. Spock’s is under developed so he struggles but when it was gone as a human he didn’t know how to function 

Saavik is Spock’s non blood related daughter. She is half Romulan. She doesn’t exist in AOS. She was the traitor. She was never pregnant with spocks or davids kid.

Spock knew how to play the lyre from childhood. Not from being given the instrument from M’banga

TOS Spock was not born in a cave and imminently insulted by Sarek. That was Sybok influencing the narrative 

Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet

TOS and SNW Spock have a parental authority kink due to Sarek’s lack of praise and affection.

TOS Spock is more emotional then SNW and AOS. It’s all the sass

Sarek was more strict on Spock after what happened with Sybok

AOS Sarek re marries a Vulcan woman and Spock has a bunch of full Vulcan siblings 

AOS Spock ad Uhura tried to have child though medical intervention but the child was never viable. After the 3rd failed attempt they broke up

Other:

Starfleet is military. Kirk in errand of Mercy “I’m a soldier not a diplomat’

In the future people can decided how long they want to be married for. Ie, 1, 5, 10, or forever years

I will be forever mad that the actor who played Picards son was not chosen to play kirk in SNW instead of Wesley. He was up for the role.

Both kirks cheated on the Kobayashi Maru in the same way but TOS Kirk was such a suck up/teacher’s pet they let him slide

All kirks went to Tarsus

All Kirks would have a hard time dealing with someone with an eating disorder, whether it be binge eating, bulimia or anorexia

AOS SNW and TOS are different timelines

The AOS versions would not get along with the SNW or TOS counterparts

After 09 trek there was a 1-2 year time gap where the rest of the crew finished up their studies and Kirk got practical experience. He was made captain soon after as a moral booster to make the fleet look better after losing Vulcan. Spock prime also pushed for Kirk to be captain. 

AOS McCoy went to Starfleet academy, TOS McCoy did not

TOS McCoy raised is daughter mostly to adulthood. AOS had to leave her as a young child

AOS kirk falls first but Spock falls harder (just barley)

In TOS it’s bottom Spock, in AOS it’s bottom kirk. And with what little info I have I’m learning towards SNW Spock being bottom

McCoy went to Dolly Parton high school

AOS Kirk still got Carol pregnant. He considered leaving so his son would have a dad but something happened and both carol and david died not long after