#some TOH criticism

[asherisawkward]

What did you think of Season 3 and its episodes? Also, do you think fans who weren't satisfied with Belos, Caleb, or Wittewife being ungrateful? I saw on Twitter that people who are upset are because Philip, Caleb, and Wittewife got more compared to other characters. Also that we didn't need to see a flashback because we already know from the Hollow Mind portraits what happened. Finally, what do you think of the Wittewife interpretations? How do you interpret her?

Get ready, because you’re in for a doozy of a rant, because Season Three was full of mixed feelings for me.

Thanks To Them:

I loved TTT because it felt incredibly suspenseful and horrifying to watch Luz and Hunter search for Philip. The exploration of Hunter’s personality and interests are heartwarming, and I can completely relate to him about wolves. It’s also interesting to see the ways Hunter grows and reacts to his Grimwalker situation and the similarities between him and Caleb.

Masha was obviously amazing, and I loved their depiction of the Wittebane Brothers’ Tale. I did notice that the local legend supposedly took place about twenty years before Gravesfield was reported to have been founded on the sign. That may be a sign that their story was incorrect, but who knows.

What really interested me was the implications of the story. Philip was an orphan with very little connection to his parents due to losing them when he was very young. Clearly, he was heavily dependent upon Caleb for his sense of safety and security, as well as his stable point to interact with the world. With Caleb leaving with Evelyn, Philip must have been left traumatized and terrified.

And Caleb…If Evelyn truly wasn’t evil, then he abandoned his brother by choice. It doesn’t really matter if he thought he’d be better off. His brother needed him, and he left.

Evelyn shares less of the blame, in my opinion, because Caleb might not have mentioned that he was an older brother or spoken of Philip. I tend to imagine her as a kind but spirited person who likely made Caleb realize there was more to life than the strict rules of Puritan society. She would likely have been a friend before they became lovers.

With that analysis done, I’ll get back to TTT.

During the possession scene, I was pretty conflicted. The animation was beautiful, and the voice acting was amazing. But I feel like it was needlessly cruel to Hunter to possess him, scar him for life, kill his therapy animal, and re-grow his hair so that he looked like his Ortet when his whole arc was about becoming his own person and learning he is not Caleb. Additionally, I’m mildly bothered by the writers making him want to carve palismen like Caleb when he had already demonstrated interest in sewing.

For The Future:

Philip’s travels were so interesting. It was horrific to watch him slowly fall apart as he desperately searched for a new body, even possessing an unfinished grimwalker to try to do the job. Some story boards and behind the scenes content revealed that Caleb and the Golden Guard ghosts were, in fact, hallucinations.

This was extremely impactful to me because it indicates that Philip had some inkling that what he’s doing is wrong, but he has fallen into the sink cost fallacy: the idea that something can’t be wrong because you invested so much time, energy, and resources into it. To put it simply, his guilt is driving him mad, but he has to continue because he knows there is no redemption for him.

New Hexside was okay. It was mildly annoying due to the change in tone feeling forced and disrupting compared to the extremely serious tone of Philip’s section. It was cool to see the way society had turned out for those who survived. I adore that it was an absolute mess, because it’s incredibly accurate for something run by teenagers.

I disliked the bit with Kikimora because it felt like a retcon of her arc in Kings Tide. She had been so obsessed with pleasing and serving someone in the pursuit of approval and greater power that she forgot she was also in danger from her hero’s plans. To restate it a way I’ve heard, “she was so focused on the boot she had on others’ necks that she didn’t notice the one on her own.” It was very gratifying to see her get retribution against Philip and play a part in saving the Isles. So FTF felt like a backslide to her.

Boscha was an interesting parallel to Philip in feeling abandoned by someone she cared about. So she attempted to force that person to stay. However, she is able to move on and accept that things have changed. It’s what would have happened if Philip had been able to let go, and I like that.

Willow’s breakdown was understandable, but not handled the best, and I dislike that she was “saved” when she doesn’t really like that sort of thing. It would have been better if Hunter and Gus had talked to her and let her slowly unload her feelings instead of being “saved” by Hunter.

I also dislike where their arcs end with them holding pinkies. Don’t get me wrong, I think that Huntlow is adorable and has a lot of potential. I just think that should be dealt with after they are more emotionally stable.

King and the Collector’s story was the least interesting to me, though I think the “new” Collector is adorable. I loved the dynamic they had as a somewhat malicious and irreverent being that will poke and prod at anything for some amusement. It really made him feel like a threat, and I liked that.

The new interpretation revealed by the interactions with King was sweet but less compelling to follow. I would have found it much more interesting for King to help him slowly come to understand human/demon/witch morals and the way what they did was wrong.

Philip’s tricking of the Collector felt like a little bit of a stress, but potentially in character as someone who was desperate to regain the power he had likely lost due to Vee. King’s dialogue for that bit felt kind of forced, but I can excuse it.

Watching and Dreaming:

Oh crud, here’s the real doozy. Watching and Dreaming was the biggest let down for me. It was stunning visually, and the animation was fluid as a whole. It looked amazing, and I was thrilled with the episode the first time I watched it. But the more I thought on it, the more issues I’ve found.

I thought the nightmare sequence was going to be far more significant than it was. I was hoping for a deep analysis on the ways that Luz and Philip mimicked each other in their desire to be the hero, protect the people they care about, and escape the unsatisfactory reality that they had previously lived in.

I thought we would see Eda face and potentially live out some of her greatest fears. Maybe she would accidentally hurt King or Luz. It would have been interesting to see her grapple this during an intense battle that would decide the fate of the Isles! It was disappointing for that to be over in fewer than ten minutes without any of the depth. I don’t really have much to say for King’s nightmare sequence.

On a far more minor note, I disliked Philip’s design during this episode. Yeah, Kaiju Philip was interesting looking, but he doesn’t carry any of the same weight or fear that he used to. The lack of detail and speech from him felt off, because he is a character who puts so much weight into words and manipulation, and we never really get to see him.

I also dislike the way that his color scheme changed. I really liked the dark green and glowing blue thing he had going on. It felt like ooze and rot, like the decay and destruction of a person’s very soul until it’s so twisted it’s no longer human. The lighter green feels sickly, and it gives me the same feeling I get when I touch a grainy eraser. I shudder, and I don’t know why. However, that’s about all on Philip’s design, now to the more major concerns and thoughts.

Luz’s death would have been far more effective if she had died more slowly and if people had noticed she was dead. Without anyone else acknowledging it, I just felt kind of hollow for the whole thing.

I thought that Papa Titan was cool, but I really dislike what he did to the narrative. This fight was set up to be horrific and challenging, that it would take every ounce of the characters’ strength. And King’s parent just kind of took that away.

Additionally, she denied all the buildup that was put into Philip’s character. Philip was set up to be tragic and sympathetic. It implied that anyone could become an extremist and hurt others because they got in too deep, and I related to Philip a lot as a character, as well as Hunter. To see him called just plain evil was disrespectful to the rest of the work put in and everything Wittebro fans hoped to see.

Some people believe that the backstory we got was sufficient for Philip’s character. Respectfully, I disagree. The pictures that were in the background of Hollow Mind were exactly that—background. It implied a tragic character that went off the deep end when he lost the only person he loved.

It suggests that, in a better world, Philip could have moved past his biases and the manipulation he experienced the way Boscha and Caleb did. He could have had a happy ending and been the person that Luz thought he was. By saying he was just evil and ignoring his backstory, Papa Titan and Luz do the exact same thing that Philip does: dehumanize the enemy and say that the group/person should be killed without remorse. It also dehumanizes or hurts those that connect with him due to religious trauma or other reasons.

It feels wrong when only a scene ago, Luz was telling the Collector that things weren’t that simple. But now, they magically are.

Papa Titan also breaks all of the themes that were set up earlier: the idea that you have to choose yourself, that there is no divine being that is going to make you special, and that Luz got where she did because she was open minded and hard working. By making the Titan gift her the runes, it discredits all the hard work she did and supports Philip’s comment that the reason he couldn’t get glyphs easily was because the Titan was making it difficult (as opposed to him being a closed minded individual who couldn’t connect to the Isles).

Luz didn’t really have a choice, and it’s never really addressed the way that the found family theme is ignored as a result of her being chosen. It also implied that all the growth she did over the previous two seasons was pointless, because she was the chosen one.

After that, the tone is distinctly more action based and exciting as opposed to the horrific and stressful encounter I was expecting. It felt like the fight wasn’t being taken seriously by the characters or the writers, and it made it hard to stay invested or take the stakes seriously.

The fight could have been the whistle Hexsquad taking on Philip and supporting each other. Hunter could have helped get people out of the way when they were being attacked. Gus could have distracted Philip and help people escape or even left him open to attack. Willow and Amity could have grappled him and harmed him. Camila could have given it her all with the bat. It could have really pushed the theme of community and connection and the way they impact people.

Finally, I want to talk about one last thing: Philip’s death. I laughed at it the first time I saw it. It was amusing and more than a touch satisfying, but it’s not what Philip deserved.

Philip was a tragic, hurt character who sacrificed his health, his morals, and everything about himself in the pursuit of protecting humanity from witches. He was evil and irredeemable, and I do not want him to be redeemed.

I wanted him to learn that it was all for nothing and that his guilt was justified, that he was fed lies by the people he admired and told what he did was right when it wasn’t. I wanted to see him break down at the knowledge of his actions and their consequences, the sins he committed. Then, I wanted him to die.

In later watching, the scene where Raine, Eda, and King stomp him to death feels cruel. I agree that he needed to die, but Philip couldn’t fight back. It doesn’t feel like something that good guys would do. And Luz just watching them do that felt wrong.

Epilogue:

I liked the epilogue as a whole, except for a bit on Hunter. The thing with him and Willow was cute, but he didn’t cut his hair again, and he went on to carve palisman. I feel as if it violates everything previously set up about him choosing to be himself, and that makes me a bit sad.

In Conclusion:

I think that the people who weee unsatisfied with the Wittebane lore have every right to be. It was the most impactful series of events for the future of the Isles. It was built up for ages and never carried through. Obviously, my opinion would change if there was a series or movie on them.

Evelyn was “spring” to Caleb, as she introduced him the first life and light that allowed him to be who he wanted to be.

Season Three had amazing animation and visual depiction, but it fumbled on the themes it had previously established and some of the character development.

I am so sorry for rambling/ranting so much on this. I hope I haven’t scared or upset you. Have a great day!

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Lumity: Controversial Opinion

I have a lot of mixed feelings regarding Lumity. As a young queer, it was important for me and my development. It did a lot for queer representation and the fact that Luz is human means people can’t deny the queerness of it like some tried to do with Ruby and Sapphire by claiming they were aliens so it didn’t count. It is a cute sapphic romance and was very groundbreaking.

That said, it’s not the perfect romance it’s stans make it out to be. In many ways, it’s a wish fulfillment story, Luz gets to be with the rich, popular girl and be the hero of the Boiling Isles. They had some problems that they never really resolved. Luz kept lying and keeping secrets even after promising to be more open. On Amity’s end, her bullying in season 1 was sort of retconned to her parents and Boscha forcing her to act that way when there were several instances of her being nasty to Luz or Willow for no reason. Them breaking up or even taking a break would have taught both consequences. Amity’s bullying did play a role in Luz keeping secrets and she never got called out for it and was woobified.

Hardcore fans may dislike this but them breaking up wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would teach queer youth that queer relationships can have their own issues and breakups like cishet romance and you have to accept that because sapphic relationships are not inherently more pure than het ones. I may be biased towards Lunter but the latter ending up together would show that M/F couples can be queer as well and that it’s not “gay erasure” for a bi woman to end up with a bi man. Again, it was a groundbreaking ship for representation but isn’t the perfect romance and not everyone who dislikes it is a homophobic “parents rights” activist.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

there's a difference between a complex villain and a morally grey character. catra is not morally grey, and she never was.

[aquaaquila]

My very long rant about The Owl House many will have issues reading

Felt like writing my hot takes within The Owl House and its fan base after witnessing some crazy drama all over the blogs I follow and followed:

First things first, I want to establish that there's nothing wrong with liking other ships that are non-canon or ships that are canon. We can all co-exist peacefully, but we won't if we're going to assume that shippers of other ships by default must be sexist or delusional or just the worst. There are plenty of bad apples among all the shippers here, but they're not necessarily the norm (though to be fair the norm usually enables the worst behaviors of such shippers). As a whole TOH isn't a healthy collective and could never be as this fan base is much larger than people realise (you can't have so many people invested with this show for the fan base to be supposedly chill, like Fat Chance).

Like really you can go from canon purists who will keep everything wholesome and silly but because of how starved the actual canon left them they will include a hundred different headcanons that are not in any way related to actual canon and still be upset as if the canon was threatened when you can just to agree with the headcanons alone. There's still, of course, an issue of canon purists literally rejecting everything that's in their mind is supposedly not okay because it strays away from canon in a more direct way. Then you will have Wittelore enjoyers who just love everything about Belos, Caleb, and Evelyn in various different expressions, but it can at times go to becoming lowkey colonist apologist territory along with pretty much-appropriating everything that applied to the character of color into these three when two of them canonically were never given a proper characterisation and Belos is not supposed to be just a victim that deserves grace but the very force that creates victims and the one to continue the cycle without remorse or second thoughts becoming the cycle itself, thus not making it any wrong to unceremoniously end it, though plenty of people will still have problem with it and wish the show validated Philip's feelings. However, you will also have POC defenders who will give the attention and love to characters of color they deserve and even the demon characters like King for example, and acknowledge how they're in fact the main characters while pointing out the clear white favoritism. But this can also go to an extreme territory where you will be called racist for actually finding white characters your favorite and still being interested more in their characters, which as I said is in fact incredibly extreme and disingenuous and also, something that will invalidate all the other good arguments by the virtue of this extreme being the underlying reason behind all of them and thus completely diminishing the problem because people will no longer take it seriously. Then you will have shippers of non-canon ships that are literally harassed by canon persists and were like that for years until they snapped and started to return the favor in the same way to the point of being delusional about how the canon pairings were not the original plan and how they actually suck and it's the non-canon pairing that should be canon which also further fuels the cycle and validates those who believe that somehow the shippers of other ships are after them specifically and how they mean o good when in fact they're the monsters they created themselves. This also leads to the infamous "critics" of the show who will pretty much hate anything within it to also inaccurate extreme that is based on assumptions born from the collective gaslight of some headcanons being canon, along with people judging the show on the surface and assuming things that were never the plan because they made a connection to something else they liked and got disappointed when those two things turned out to be unrelated (for example Hunter's arc being not like Zuko's arc when clearly it was never the point) and thus shushing away any potential criticism the show actually could get by the virtue of getting criticism that holds no water upon the closer look and thus makes people believe the show is, in fact, flawless or that the flaws don't matter in the slightest (when they do as they help improve future stories to not make the same mistakes and create something better). And of course, you will have people collectively gaslighting everyone around them that everything is fine and there's no drama in the show even though everyone hates each other here and fuel toxicity together by constantly drawing distinctions between "us and them" but never talking about how toxic it is.

Congratulations, we created our Emperor's Coven at home! This entire thing is pretty much the reason why I'm making this thing.

But back to the rest of the actual meat of this post, that was mere appetizer.

Second of all: Multishippers exist. Some people like both Lumity and Lunter and there are Lunter shippers who like Amity, me included as Amity's one of my favorite characters. It's disingenuous to assume Lunter shippers are by default lesphobic or just hate Amity. Heck, the reason Lunter shippers dislike Amity is less about her and more about the fan base's attitude. Imagine being constantly harassed that you don't ship mainstream ship by being specifically reminded that a specific lesbian exists, even if this isn't about her. You would be tired of her too because "good for her to be a happy lesbian", but Lumity may still not satisfy people as it's basically all fluff at this point. People are so overjoyed with them being together they hardly explore now possibilities of them going through something. At most, they will use green-haired Amity but people still will be waiting for green to turn into periwinkle, and fluff will just overwhelm anything else. And don't get me started on how both of them also end up being flanderised and dirty because of each other (as it goes both ways). People can just not vibe with that or be indifferent, but because people get harassed for daring to not love Lumity or Amity, they just end up hating it more. The issue is not Amity, the issue is Amity being the only option allowed. And gatekeeping people from enjoying other ships isn't ok. It really makes you feel like people erase aspects of their characters just to conform to a specific image of them and how can you accept something like this when the show is all about embracing weirdness and differences and not conforming to anything. Loving Lumity is a norm in this fan base, not a break with convention.

Third of all: I'm sorry to y'all but I think that considering Evelyn and Willow as literal parallels because they both fell in love with "Caleb" is disingenuous to both of them. No one would draw this connection if Willow wasn't romantically involved with Hunter. And while I don't disagree that Huntlow is goated and canon/semi-canon, their relationship is still left to interpretation and they are only implied to have a thing but not confirmed to be downright an item. We don't know 100% if they're dating, playing the long game, engaged, or amicably broken up. And that's great as both of their characters work in their own right and they don't need an established relationship to be fulfilled and people can interpret their relationship however they like, no need to throw pitchforks at one another. And Willow being dressed up AS A STEREOTYPE just doesn't help the case of her somehow being Evelyn's foil. Luz was dressed as an actual witch character (even if said witch is also not how real witches operate either, but it's still closer in meaning than Willow being dressed up as a devil as if Evelyn indeed charmed Caleb and he didn't fall in love with her like a normal person or that Evelyn was ever in the wrong to like a boy).

And as for Evelyn: please stop just summarising her up to Caleb's love interest for Titan's sake. We may not know much about her but we know that they did start as friends according to Dana's livestream and later on they would become parents to their child (if Belos didn't ruin it). Not only it's different from Huntlow as Huntlow didn't establish where they stand in their relationship at the end while it's clear that Evelyn and Caleb fucked, but Evelyn and Caleb had their love story that did take time (Huntlow at most is just getting started but for all, we know they could still break up in the future cause why not, it's their choice, first love isn't necessarily the only option). My point is that Evelyn's life didn't revolve around her love for Caleb alone so saying Willow and Evelyn are parallels because of them being lovers of our favorite white boys pretty much erases both of their characters. Evelyn's worth as a character doesn't end on getting pregnant, but also being a catalyst of all the events within the story, along with being a Clawthorne ancestor and original wild witch living between worlds.

Fifth point: this is where I bring Luz into this as the parallel, the infamous "Luz is Evelyn" everyone just loves to discard because it's only used as Lunter's argument and further making Evelyn only Caleb's bitch and nothing else, but here's a thing: you can use this parallel platonically to further spite Philip. People draw the connection because aside from having no romantic feelings towards "Caleb" (which is the only distinction between the two), Luz is also a wild witch (wild as in both wild personality-wise, wild as in everything Belos stands against (and side note: Willow being someone Belos wouldn't approve of is not a high bar because Belos would literally not approve of ANYBODY within our cast, so Willow's not special in this regard, heck Belos doesn't even know Willow all that much), wild as in using the very magic that came from the titan and wild as in a wild card that changed the course of history) that traveled between realms and came from another world (let's be real, Hunter is a witch from boiling isles, not a human from the earth, so Luz by a longshot matches the description better than Willow who's just a regular witch born in the demon realm to Hunter that frankly wouldn't be hurt or restrained by the coven system as she only uses plant magic from her bile sac and didn't go against the empire until season 1 finale and even then she didn't do it as a wild witch but child witch railing witches belonging to the coven to release Eda). Both of them also have loose association with Clawthornes as Luz isn't legally one but just a surrogate daughter of one and Evelyn's surname isn't known, the clan could've been established much later down the line or Evelyn's descendant married into Clawthorne's family, making Evelyn just an ancestor at best and distant at worst. I also already mentioned how both of them are catalysts to both the rise in power and the death of Philip while having massive guilt over it (Philip died on the inside as he killed Caleb, crossing the moral event horizon along with setting on the journey of destroying the entire realm. Plus I cannot imagine the survivor's guilt Evelyn must have felt over Caleb dying and orphaning their unborn child - which parallels Luz thinking she doomed her palisman by carving into an egg thinking it could never hatch because of how "she keeps on messing up constantly"). And of course, it's clear as day that Luz kickstarts Hunter's redemption arc by introducing Flapjack (and Evelyn did the same with Caleb, meanwhile Willow's only interaction with Flapjack is her giving him flowers on his grave; and it's worth noting as I doubt that Evelyn intentionally 'fixed" Caleb, much like Luz didn't intentionally "fixed" Hunter, though people sure love to think otherwise), making him question what he knows (a witch hunter falling in love with a witch - existential crisis is warranted, along with tones of guilt) and making him "betray" Belos (Hunter disobeyed Belos in HP and then questioned him directly in HM; Caleb "left Philip behind"). Like I'm sorry but Willow did nothing but wait till Hunter gets his shit together by himself (the only thing she actively tried to change his mind about is not judging a book by its cover but that's where it ends; she didn't call him out on doing the utterly terrible thing of kidnapping them to his cult nor anything else he did that wasn't morally correct) while Luz openly defied him and his worldview for him to come to his senses ("You're really going to take all those Palismen? I know what he does with them. I thought you were a good guy, but that was just wishful thinking" Hunter then proceeds to protect Luz from Kikimora, reveals his name, and lets Luz go with the Palismen just like that). Trivia: Evelyn also has brunette hair that is wild and tied back, Luz used to have them too early on but shorter, and currently they're curly.

That's where parallel comes from. That's what Evelyn us to Caleb: catalyst of change. Yes, Luz isn't in love with Hunter, but we could headcanon away that Caleb would be merely an uncle of Evelyn's kid, who's going to stop us from doing that? We can even make it that Philip felt replaced by Evelyn by her being Caleb's "new sibling" just for the fun of interpretation of the character.

But even if we won't do that (as no one forces us) then we must remember that parallel characters are not 2 characters being one and the same. Evelyn and Luz would still be separate entities and there's no crime in that. Luz not falling in love with a blond white boy is fine because that isn't and shouldn't be Evelyn's defining trait. Evelyn's defining trait is kickstarting change in Caleb which kickstarts Belos's vendetta against Witches. Romance was a bonus.

My sixth point: Last but not least let's finally talk about the elephant in the room that is parallel between Philip and Luz. All interpretations are valid, if you're choosing to interpret them like that, it's your valid choice and opinion. But saying that it's THE thing that happened within the show is just not correct and let me explain why before you discard me altogether if you haven't already.

Luz projected into Belos and Belos took advantage of that.

There, I said it, that's the ultimate truth of the show, you literally cannot deny this isn't how it happened.

Luz pretty much only had Philip as a point of reference to someone who shared her experience of a human in the demon realm. However, if she got to know Caleb instead of Philip, he would be the one Luz would compare herself to him. Ironically, she would be more correct as both of them are humans who run away to the demon realm after being possibly rejected by the closed-minded society and leaving behind unpleasant reality and their only living family member who they didn't realize how much they've hurt for choosing to leave them for the world that made them happy and helped them flourish (compare starved Caleb in Belos's vision to Caleb living in the demon realm and introducing Philip to Evelyn before he decided to kill them,). You could even say that Luz is a fusion of both Caleb and Evelyn at once. But unfortunately, Luz doesn't know Caleb as well as the audience does, all she knows is that he used to be a witch hunter who fell in love with Evelyn but that's about it. She doesn't know that he even has a connection to the portal door or Clawthorne ancestry.

So with no one else as a point of reference, Luz is going to compare herself to Philip Whattabitch. She assumed that she must be as bad as Belos because she thought he sincerely thought he was doing everything for a genuine reason and not because he was just a douchebag. Sure Philips's motivations are complex, but they don't come from a good place in the slightest. The Titan himself literally asks Luz if she's drunk on Eda's apple blood for thinking she's just as bad as Belos.

Like seriously, Luz stumbled on the Isles by pure accident. It was never for a reason or a higher purpose. She was never "destined" to go there, but it was her actions and decisions that led her there and changed the world around her. She didn't know the reason why she landed on Boiling Isles because there never was any reason or a prophecy to justify her presence there as it was never needed. This is not the same as Belos who willingly went to the demon realm to both find his brother and destroy all the witches. Luz very quickly grew out of "I'm the chosen one" whereas Belos made himself a false messiah. Even the Titan said that she's not chosen to be given Titan powers by fate but for her actions and kindness she's given them to support her and it was her decision to accept them. Not to mention that she respected the Isles, the inhabitants, and the magic that was part of this world, while all Belos ever did was destroy, murder, and steal it all for himself.

The show doesn't tell you Luz and Belos are foils, the show tells you that Luz VIEWS herself as Belos's foil, but she's nothing like him. Even their respective hero complexes are different. Luz seeks self-improvement to find a community for herself to belong to. But Belos? Belos wants to get praise and glory for slaughtering "the evil". Those two are not the same because Belos doesn't care about anyone but himself while Luz is all about what other people feel and think about her and she sacrifices herself multiple times for other people's sake. Belos would never do that. Belos wasn't even happy that Caleb was actually well and healthy in the demon realm, in contrast to the vision where Caleb is starved and sleep-deprived because he had to look after him ever since they were little orphans, sacrificing his own well-being. But Luz would rather give up her own hopes and dreams just to not see anyone she cares about ever put themselves on the line like that.

At most, I can agree that Luz represents what's best in humanity and Belos represents the worst, but that is still an incredibly broad concept that just doesn't contribute much to the actual story of TOH which isn't about humanity as a whole. And I'm sorry but this parallel is just used to woobify Belos and villanise Luz, something that certainly is not right. Because even if you made Belos a hero and Luz a villain, they'd still be nothing like one another.

Even Luz's dynamic with Hunter is nothing like Caleb and Philip. Caleb and Philip grew up together and they were the entire world to one another growing up. But Luz and Hunter didn't even have each other when growing up, they didn't get to know them until their teens, and the first time they meet they were at each other's throats which is different from Wittebane brothers having a loving relationship early on only for Belos to stab Caleb. Arguably, even if liked the idea of Luz and Hunter being siblings, I'd be disappointed with how much the show didn't do anything with them and it's always the fan base that pulls heavy weight on them being sibling-like. Like Hunting Palismen is them not even being friends let alone family and it's still supposed to be the pinnacle of their sibling rivalry, even though they were actual enemies and Luz is just as petty and immature here as she is with Kikimora? Luz supposedly didn't go after Hunter after he ran away from the Owl House whereas she did chase King when he learned the truth in Echoes of the Past? Supposedly we never had an on-screen scene where Hunter officially becomes a Noceda? I'm sorry but I will take a "You're family" from Afro-Latina as not confirmation that I'm a sibling but a friend who is close enough to be as valued as a family member, especially followed by Willow's "You're one of us now" and preceded with Camila's "I'm a mother of six". Are Hunter and Willow siblings too now? Hunter didn't even get to be in a photo of the Noceda family in the epilogue, what kind of brother would that be?

Camila is more of a Caleb to Luz considering it was her who raised Luz through trials and tribulations, sacrificing her own quirks and encouraging Luz to do the same just to conform to the norms of Gravesfield. But quite frankly it's Luz who ultimately runs away because of a certain Clawthorne Witch leaving Camila behind. Hunter literally has no such story with Luz, unless you count him running away in HM, only to return to COTH a week later and then finally live under Nocedas' roof.

Even when Luz didn't like Hunter's guts, she would never kill him. And despite being dressed up as Belos in the nightmare sequence, there's never a parallel between Philip and Caleb, because truly this isn't their relationship. And while we're at it, the whole nightmare sequence is once again a play on Luz's insecurities and doubts, but none of them are the truth. None of Luz's friends blame her for what happened, none of Belos's crimes are her crimes, and Luz would never willingly destroy the Boiling Isles because she doesn't destroy the things or people she hates. Even Belos was not finished off by Luz but by boiling rain and her family.

Ok, I finished venting about everything that's been going on inside my head. Might add more on the way, but those were the issues that were bugging me so now do whatever you want with it.

[amiizuki]

it will be forever funny to me how the flashback portraits of Wittebrothers made Caleb seem like he's had packing peanuts for a brain

(this post ended up becoming quite lengthy, and so did the tags somehow, because I kinda devolved into a rant closer to the end of writing this whole thing, so bear with me here)

so we know that Philip and Caleb became orphans when both of them were still kids. after that, they ended up in Gravesfield and, to fit in with everyone else who lived there, picked up witch hunting and started thinking that witches are pure evil. Caleb knew perfectly well that he's the only family Philip's had left and that he even may be his his only friend, since, judging by the portraits, they've only ever hung out with each other and we don't know if those two ever made any other actual friends.

until one day, during a witch hunt he and Philip were both a part in (something Caleb seemed happy to do, judging by his smirk there), he met a witch – Evelyn – someone he's been taught to hate and want dead by the townsfolk. someone who, again, in his mind, should be evil.

but he just suddenly does a 180 and goes "damn, you can make fire with your hands, you're actually pretty cool"

and then a few days (?) of talking to her later, he's running off to live with her in the Demon Realm, while simultaneously not giving a single fuck about the brother he's abandoning.

(he even runs off with a smile, with a literal :D face, I fucking can't lmao)

Philip ends up seeing Caleb get dragged off through a weird portal and later follows along, thinking something like "no, my brother wouldn't just up and abandon me without saying anything. he probably got captured by that witch we saw together that one time! she probably used some demon magic to bewitch Caleb and took him through that portal to kill him or worse! I gotta go save him!". and, after spending god knows how long in that realm, searching endlessly for his missing older brother, he eventually finds him. but he also finds that Caleb is not only perfectly okay and not hurt in the slightest, he's also peacefully walking together with the same witch who "captured" him, even holding hands with her.

and when enraged Philip tries to attack Evelyn, to protect Caleb from the witch who took him from his home, from his brother, still thinking that Caleb's under her control, Caleb just... gives him a hug and goes on to introduce the witch as his new wife to him (I'm assuming that portrait is the same day as the other three, if not the same scene), also adding on top of that that they're having a child. all as if nothing happened. treating the whole thing like everything's perfectly okay and just another normal day, fully ignoring the fact that he threw his brother away with no care or thought, leaving him completely alone, a full orphan, now with zero actual family left (in TTT, during their backstory, it's said that "Caleb did his best to take care of his younger brother", meaning that either they never got adopted in Gravesfield, or whoever adopted them didn't give a shit about the two, so they still mostly had to fend for themselves), all to go smash some random 5 out of 10 witchussy he talked to, like, 3 times. no fucking wonder Philip killed him!

(btw, jokes aside, it didn't seem like he intended to kill Caleb, because in that portrait where he's ready to kill with a knife in his hand, he's facing forward, while Caleb is actually to his left. so it just looks to me like Philip was gonna try to kill Evelyn again, and Caleb either jumped in front of her to protect her and got accidentally stabbed or he attacked Philip back, to, again, protect Evelyn, and Philip ended up winning that fight. but that's just my theory)

my brother in literal christ and literal titan – why in the FUCK are you just hugging it out with a smile on your face??? you ran off while giving absolutely no warning to anyone, especially your younger brother! why do you think he's here and actively trying to attack you and your new wife? you're not even trying to address the fact that you left him! at least when Luz ran off to a different realm without warning, she had a "I'm still at the camp" cover, so Camila wouldn't worry that much about where her daughter is, and even then she still felt bad for leaving her mother and planned to go back home once summer was over. this chucklefuck, on the other hand, just permanently portaled away to the Boiling Isles, knocked up a witch and fully settled down there, walking around with a big ol' smile and no care in the world. "Philip who? never heard of him"

the only thing that would sorta make this situation seem better (as in, not make Caleb seem like an overly naive ignorant brick), in my opinion, is if they added one more portrait – after the one where he meets the witch, but before the one where he leaves. in that portrait, Caleb would look like he's trying his best to convince Philip that witches aren't actually evil, and perhaps even try to get him to go live with them in the Demon Realm, all the while Philip's looking at him with either disagreement/disappointment/disgust or just rolling his eyes and full on ignoring him, while sharpening his witch hunt tools or something. then it would look like Caleb at least tried to make his brother change his mind, like he tried to offer him a chance to go with them. but no. with the way the portraits look in the final version it just seems like Caleb was fully on-board with killing witches since he was young, even pulling his younger brother along to think the same way, Philip also thought that Caleb was perfectly fine with killing witches, but once he actually meets a real witch (assuming they've never met one before) he instantly pulls an uno reverse card and just runs off with her, without so much as telling his brother beforehand.

I'm not trying to say that "Belos should've been redeemed, because he's the victim here and Caleb is bad and it's all his fault". he still murdered his brother and went on to manipulate everyone on Boiling Isles for centuries, with his end goal being the death of all witches, while simultaneously being stuck in the loop of "denial" and "bargaining" stages of grief – repeatedly trying and failing to recreate a perfect copy of Caleb, but also killing each one that came out wrong or went against him. Belos not being redeemed in the end was the right choice (ignoring the "Belos was always le bad" from King's dad), I agree with that. frankly, if he actually got redeemed in the end, I'd probably be seething for the next 3 to 5 years, like how I did after the Diamonds' "redemptions" in SU (yes I'm still pissed about that lol). I'm just saying that, from what was shown to us, Caleb didn't seem like that good of a person either, not as bad as Belos ended up being, but still not that great. and, once again, seemingly had a raisin for a brain.

(off topic, but during Masha's retelling of Wittebane's backstory, their "sounds like big bro got a hot witch girlfriend and little bro got upset" line was so fucking cringe, it gave me a fever for 3 days the first time I watched the episode)

k, rant over, I dunno what else to add

TL;DR: I think Caleb was dumb as a brick, because, from what was shown to us in their backstory, he seemed to have run off to Demon Realm and abandon Philip without telling him anything beforehand. when Philip came to BI to look for his brother, who he assumed was under control of the witch who "took" him, since he thought his last living family member wouldn't just abandon him, and when he eventually found him, and it turned out he wasn't in any danger at all, Caleb just brushed the whole "I left you for witchussy" thing under the rug and pretended everything was and is perfectly fine, even though it clearly isn't. rip bozo

[cosmicgamer]

It's insane to me how Willow went from unknowingly dragging someone in her enraged state and then stopping the moment she realized, to forcefully dragging someone else without any remorse

[daystarvoyage]

I often see fans demonize some characters like Belos,The Blights, Camila, into far worse versions of themselves like fans portraying Camila as abusive since she wants Luz go to Reality Check Camp to correct her behavior and certain people interpret that of her sending her to a conversation therapy camp or the Blights while they are bad parents for sure they are sometimes depicted as physically abusive or homophobic despite that sort of thing not existing in the boiling isles and Finally Belos gets made into a bigot who is sexist,racist, homophobic because he a white Christian male despite not making any insults for Luz being a woman or POC while his stance of sexual orientation or gender identity is unknown the fact he didn’t insult Luz for being a woman or POC is remarkable progressive for a Man who is born in the 1600’s also He FICTIONAL and we already have enough of those people in real life what do you think?

I do say this, people need to start separating the art from the artist and fantasy from reality,

this type of writing and fictional perspective, a lot of viewers and fans sit through, its been done throughout animation, Even in real life affecting how we see our adult figures.

hope i say this, the best way i can cause the show did the adults and supporting characters dirty with its ill pacing in storytelling and character exposure

The Fans Of their favorite media love to exaggerate disliked characters (be it villains or unpopular ones) cause of how there perceived physically or in writing in the creator's eyes. We get this at the start of the first episode introducing Camila (whos a great mother who I relate to cause, I also was on the spectrum being raised by a single mom) I feel I look at her as a character who carries a burden with her being a single mother) yet relatable cause she does her best to take care of her daughter on earth cause she to is a single mother protecting her daughter from the harsh reality cause its not all huckydorey (like the ending of the show),when she wants luz to conform. the way fans see luz assomeone needing protecting, might villanize camila firsthand(DEMONIZING ADULT MOMENT BY FANDOM) as a cheerful person luz is, fans forget that she's also impressionable, impulsive, don't think far on consequneces and needy, might gloss over the fact she needs proper mannerisms (to get by in the world at times), cause shes young & fits the viewers mold of perception, that no one should be punished cause of sexuality, it might show she doesn't need help. Let's be clear the fans are gonna gloss the fact shes a troublemaker who brings harmful items to school WHICH fans should be concerned, i mean neurodivergent character doesn't mean good personality,

2. The blight situation I swear they did Odalia dirty with this GRRR & how talented and amazing Rachel MacFarlane is (Her VA voicing hayley from American Dad.)

She also over exaggerated for being ( DEMONIZED BY FANDOM cause SHE's an ADULT) to being just an abusive mother, but however others will see it is a character who was a dark and humorous character at least & she has great writing tools to be & alador was just a plot device to make amity look good even the twins, & get rid of odalia even though her had his hand in amity's abuse, which I feel no one in the blight fam is not innocent (neither was amity, also which the twins didn't get fleshed out more & used as plot device for lumity, Which fans at times gloss over. Fans will over-exaggerate that Odalia was physically abusive to the kids but NEVER WAS! cause that's a negative perception on the fandom that (We have a adult hater situation nowadays of how this new age of Gen Z & alpha kids are raised,

i also wrote a post on the matter btw

The Belos Treatment (we al know how the creator treated him, such good potential DOwn the Drain.)

Bruh or GiIIIRRRRLL, I commend the Belos fans for being on their own ship supporting and adding more to his BG in fanfic & art

Belos was an intriguing villain who rivaled not only Frollo, the horned king, & Prof. Screweyes. This man also has a perception amongst the fans who followed the creator's way of how he was written (basically the new Chloe bourgeois treatment from miraculous.) He was only a character who was hell-bent on piping witches out and saving his humankind NOT BEING Racist Homophobic, or BIgoted, However, Chloe made racist & prejudiced remarks To Marinette in the cooking episode,(BUT BELOS DIDNT!) So he's an equal villain Who is all about equal rights means equal fights (falls under the neutral evil cause of how he was depicted into a person of tragedy upbringing to now a one-sided character (getting tired of how creators write villains in a one-sided manner.) oh and some people need proper knowledge of the 1600s cause belos was born in that era and I heard someone saying he was born in 1700s which I feel the show does suffer from anachronisms.

And don't get me started of how the fans go about Darius cause that has angry black man written all over it, along Manny being ONLY relevant in Luz's dire moment not being explored more,

hope i put down a lot of tea & crumpets for everyone hope you also can look at my video essay on my YouTube.

hope you enjoy comment and subscribe for more.

[inannasdream]

i think the reason why i gravitate towards belos on a deeper level a lot more than any of the other characters in toh is bc my preference in characters and stories is in how they are affected by institutions and the messiness that results from understandable character flaws exacerbated by those institutions, whether they are the oppressed or are enabled to become the oppressor. belos is a mix of both in a way that i like — it's possible to read him as nd & left handed (both heavily stigmatized in his day and society) yet both are possible to hide. in the demon realm he yet again had a trait that made him a possible outcast, as he was a lowly human, yet he transformed himself into a magic user through painful mutilation of his skin all so that he could conform to that society, even when it was one he couldn't stand. his conformity in the demon realm supports the idea of him having to conform in the human realm. but because he was enabled for being a white man in the human realm and could reasonably hide anything that made him a nail to be hammered down, he clung to that power and dominion over others that it gave him for the rest of his life like a security blanket, represented literally with him lording his magical prowess over other witches and demons. it's a lot of layers that i think are very fun and i'm 90% sure are unintentional when put together into this cohesive of a picture for reasons i will state later.

compare that against almost every other character in toh (w maybe the exception of darius??) — every good guy has flaws that can reasonably be blamed on other people as a freudian excuse or that are downplayed by the narrative (eg. amity going from an active bully in her debut to a passive enabler of bullying in understanding willow). there's a dire lack of messiness in them all, from their appearance (all the witch kids could easily be mistaken for humans, fairly good looking ones at that, if it weren't for the ears), to how they deal with pain, etc. it gave me the impression that they really wanted only the villain to be allowed to be messy and ugly because those are traits for villains, when i think it's a lot nicer to see stigmatized traits (ugliness, childishness, hallucinations, mental illness, etc) in everyone. i really wanted the heroes to get in on that kind of action too.

another thing that drew me away from connecting with and trying to deeply understand most of the characters in toh is the lack of meaningful bigotry on the isles. i'm not criticizing the race-, queer-, and gender-blindness of the demon realm on an objective level bc the writers wanted to accomplish a v specific thing w that bit of world building and that's ok and it's a wonderful aspiration for usamerica. it's ok if it's not for Me and the world can't have a million yasuda sayos (i say with difficulty through tears). but because there is a lack of bigotry in what's supposed to be an oppressive society and there's no highlighted underclass in its place (covenless witches should theoretically be the underclass, but the show tends to undermine this aspect of its society, eg. letting wild witches like eda and luz roam perfectly free and having the government-funded school allow witches to study multiple covens without pushback from said government funding them), it becomes just another part of the show that makes it so much more squeaky clean and made me disinterested in a lot of the characters — i connect so much better with characters when i feel their pain and struggle against a world that can't find it in itself to care about them, witnessing all the ways they try to fight for their right to be happy frantically and imperfectly, and that is what makes their happiness so meaningful to me and makes me care abt them deeply.

contrast that w belos: i really love that he came from a society infamous for its conservatism and religious extremism grounded in the real world, and it's so thought provoking for me to think abt the layers of that society and how he interacted with it. which parts he rejected, conformed to, wanted to conform to, etc. that's a challenging character to understand (and then, after having fully understood them, condemn with so much more feeling) and i adore the idea of that being intentional if it wasn't for the fact that almost every other character in toh is boringly easy to understand because they lack enough material in the layers that can make them feel like real, messy people to challenge the viewer in a meaningful way. (side note: a lot of the layers created simply by belos being from colonial connecticut also disappear if you're solely looking at his background based on the text in the show, bc you're expected to fill in the gaps with, like, wikipedia basically lol. similar thing w luz where they show very little of her being bullied/outcasted bc of her adhd and you're mostly supposed to fill that in w your own experience & irl knowledge of adhd.) it results in the show being weirdly liberal about the bigotry/lack of bigotry certain characters have and only being able to halfheartedly say "idk some people are just evil i guess", instead of examining the material conditions that shape people to act the way they do. Bigot Phil vs Weirdgirl Luz could've been "these characters are shaped by their circumstances and have been encouraged to respectively become their worst/best selves through ideals instilled in them" but instead it's "some people are bad and we won't attempt to look at what made them 'bad' in the first place" and then pretending this is a groundbreaking message and not the laziest takeaway they could've possibly written.

basically i like my characters messy with hearts that you have to go out of your way to understand and sympathize with who come from understandable circumstances and i think all girls should be allowed to kill freely. i hope you can understand my position.

[pinksilvace]

I really do wish that the Owl House had managed to stick with its original goal of being subversive for so many reasons, but right now I'm thinking about the finale again and how Belos was framed as a downright evil dude. A lot has already been said about this decision, from how it hurts the development and arcs of multiple characters to how it neglects a lot of the subtext that made Belos such an interesting villain to begin with, but it also just generally falls into common tropes from a character design standpoint.

Belos is designed, inside and out, in such a way that ensures the viewer KNOWS he's the villain based on pre-existing stereotypes prevalent in media. He's not young or conventionally attractive; I've seen fans go so far as to call him ugly because of what is essentially a skin condition. Season 3 confirmed that he has OCD and psychosis. The curse is shown to give him some sort of chronic pain (+limited access to relief medication, which loses effectiveness [note that Eda will likely always have access to elixirs while the same can't be said for Belos and palismen]). He has a foreign accent. He was given a rough childhood (that the audience is expected to disapprove of) to "explain" how he got to where he is.

Something about it feels really rotten. He's a villain, no doubt about it, but a lot of his traits - many of which are heavily stigmatized - are not present in any other cast member (the closest I can think of is Hunter, who has facial scarring and undefined trauma symptoms potentially (?) including psychosis [the big difference here is that Belos is shown to have had episodes repeatedly while Hunter was shown to have one moment of non-possessed hallucinations for what looked like the first time]). It would have been nice to see a show shooting for subversion not use such commonly villainized attributes for the villain, or at least, for the villain and only the villain. It especially stinks considering how the showrunners pressed the message that he's evil through and through.

[theprinceandthewitch]

What is annoying about the updated Hollow Mind portraits is that they legit think this amends the fact they didnt bring Caleb and Evelyn up in the show… like dude, I shouldnt have to read sources OUTSIDE OF THE SHOW to get story clues. And they STILL dont show us what Evelyn looks like? Even though they added new portraits? Um�� okay…

[azural83]

I firmly believe that this should've been addressed in the previous episodes

Giving hints about gus knowing belos' secrets would've actually given him something to do (foreshadowing a possible illusion fight in the final?) Instead of having him do absolutely nothing except being hunter and willow's supportive friend

[verdantmeadows]

Hey Eda is literally shown to be able to remove her arms and not as an illusion so why didn't she just remove her arm and then put it back on during the draining spell 😭 or even if it disappeared forever why didn't she think to do this on her own

[deadwardiann]

the toh reddit page being 90% mor*ngmark stuff is so dull 😭

[adorawasright]

i think it's interesting that i often sympathize with the "annoying" characters that ppl hate. not just swift wind and kyle, but, in other fandoms, characters like: hooty (toh), steven, ronaldo and lars (su)... just to name a few.

i guess i just relate to being that weird person that has no friends (or very few friends)

[imminent-danger-came]

continue being a little mean to toh fans please it is really irritating how some act like its got the best writing of any modern cartoon

Daawwwww I don't have it in me. TOH fans love it for a reason, and there are legitimately good moments! It's just not the most complex or well-written show out there—which it doesn't need to be—but I also totally get your exhaustion. It gets tiring seeing people praise it so highly over and over again when it's just like...fine. It didn't do nothing but it also didn't do something, you know? It's main couple is cute and queer, but that's pretty much all there is to them. It has a fun cast of characters, but they all tend to fall into archetypes. Luz is a sweet main character, but she doesn't have any real flaws and kinda takes a back seat to Hunter and Eda (the white people lol). Her foil with Philip was interesting...but then they kinda backed off and went the "you and Belos are nothing alike" direction.

((I'm also going to answer this anon with another: ))

And It's not that an unsympathetic villian is bad, or that Belos would even be sympathetic with added backstory, it's just that...there were a lot of interesting things to explore with his character that were left hanging.

Like, while he's definitely not at all a good person, it's intriguing that he would bother to recreate his brother over and over again knowing that each time the grimwalker was going to betray him. It's intriguing that he was even willing to kill his brother to begin with (though Caleb was super underutilized in general). Like, you can give a villain depth without justifying or victimizing them (hi Finnegran from tdp, I'll also add Spider Queen & LBD here). So it just feels like a missed opportunity all across the board. It's still surprising to me that we got a confirmation on the Wittebane backstory through an unrelated background character, rather than Philip himself (who had literally possessed a main character, and mindscapes had already been well-established....the pieces were all there me thinks).

And obviously it's like, people can love something despite it's flaws, and they can cherish it for the good it has, but they still don't need to praise it as an ultimate form of media, you know? We don't need to pretend toh was this dark and complex story—it was just a story a lot of people liked and resonated with. Which I'm glad it's there for those people, and I'm glad there are options when it comes to queer pieces of media!

That said the show with the best writing of any modern cartoon is The Dragon Prince (streaming on Netflix).

[flower-boi16]

Honestly, Raeda used to be my favorite (canon) ship in the show - but over time I kinda lost interest in it and it became my least favorite of the show's main three ships. That's probably because of the fact that I kinda stopped caring for Raine as a character (Read this post if you want to see why) but a major issue I have with Raine is the fact that their character is heavily based around Eda; the show never really develops them beyond "Eda's Ex", though it sadly couldn't because Disney fucked it over. Raine has the same problem that Vaggie and Millie from HH and HB do; they are heavily defined by their lovers and they don't have much of a personality or any real development outside of that.

And I really I think this is what hurts Raeda as a ship to me; I don't hate it, but I would've liked Raeda so much more with Raine wasn't so attached to Eda and had more independence from her. The other two of the show's main three ships, Lumity and Huntlow, don't really have this problem; both characters in their respective relationships aren't solely defined from each other and are their own characters.

Again, Raine feels heavily defined by their relationship with Eda and I think that really harms Raeda as a ship. I don't hate the ship, Eda and Raine's interactions are kinda cute, but I still don't really care too much for the ship because again, it's harmed by the fact that Raine feels solely defined by Eda.