#so i think s2 should focus on her

[satohqbanana]

I think this is how I'd like Arcane S2 to go based on what the fandom and LOL players have posted so far on socmed and other media sharing sites (and if I miss any plot point, my apologies, I'm neither watching it off Netflix or the pirate's bay).

For starters, S2 would open with a timeskip. Both Piltover and Zaun are in a mess. Neither have their leaders, after all, and potential candidates are currently fighting their way to the top, none strong enough like the previous ones.

Various factions are scrambling to take control over the borders and all known (and secret) passageways between the cities. Jinx is one of the faces at the front. Every Piltovan is out to get her if they can; kill her or turn her in, they'll win political power. She's even more ruthless this time, and she's enjoying the act of killing. It's also as if she wants to find someone strong enough to kill/stop her.

Meanwhile, the Chembarons are fighting for leadership over Zaun, but first of all, they are trying to court Sevika's loyalty. She has the charisma that helps her rally supporters towards anyone she finds fit. They do not know that Jinx is holding her captive exactly because of this. Their second priority is claiming monopoly on shimmer - or making an alternative. Since Silco's gone and Singed is holed up in his lab, production has gone places, and no one's brewed anything better yet.

Ekko has made efforts to support struggling Zaunites, but the Firelights' territory is growing smaller by the day. Thanks to the conflict, he now knows Jinx has survived their fight on the bridge, but he fully regrets having tossed away her bomb. (It is clear that he still struggles to separate Powder from Jinx. This is his actual arc.)

Heimer has started to shed his immortal naivety; now he's actively helping Ekko's community thrive. Particularly he's leading the Firelights in research endeavors. They have a working tonic for shimmer, though still imperfect, so Heimer thinks of sending Ekko and friends to Piltover to make things better.

On the side of Piltover, we have Vi. She's been forced into becoming an enforcer thanks to Caitlyn, who attempted to put her back in jail in grief and rage. Thanks to the conflict, one of the jail guards tattled about Vander and Grayson and Silco and Marcus, then suggested the team-up. Vi initially refused the offer, but she eventually agreed to it, because she has no allies aside from Ekko and she can't wait for him while Jinx is destroying both cities. She keeps on wondering why Vander agreed to acquaint himself with them, as day in and day out she's just assisting Piltovans and fighting Zaunites. A colleague suggests she's better off helping out in Zaun instead, and she punches him.

Caitlyn is exhausted to say the least. She has just buried her mother, Jayce and Mel (and Victor) have disappeared and nobody can say where they've gone, and Noxus is breathing down her neck. At the very least, she does have Ambessa guiding her, even if her words feel demanding. Caitlyn promised to comb all over Piltover and Zaun for Mel to prevent Ambessa from rallying Noxian forces, under the condition that if Caitlyn can't bring the cities to an acceptable state, Noxus is free to take control of both as it pleases. Caitlyn has also accepted Noxians into the military force of Piltover, sent by Ambessa under the guise of searching for Mel.

(And Ambessa is thirsty for blood. She has chosen to hold back for now, for she does worry that little peace-loving Mel might actually die in the crossfire between Noxus and Pilt/Zaun and Ambessa is not willing to go through the loss of a child again this soon. But she is getting impatient, and she is also considering taking the hexcore for herself.)

Overall, the season deals with themes of power and control. Naturally Vi and Jinx meet each other and clash twice or thrice during this leg of the story. But most of all, it's about Vi becoming Vi, much like how Powder became Jinx last season. Even if this doesn't solve all plot threads, it would at least give Vi the center stage to tell her "side" of the story, especially with regards to the Piltover/Zaun conflict.

In fact, I think it'd be great if Caitlyn captures Jinx, but keeps her incarcerated to get a better hold on both Piltover and Zaun and get things in order. As Jinx is lashing out in her cell, crying and screaming and begging to be let out, Vi is there, tearfully apologizing for all her shortcomings as Powder's sister. The series ends with Caitlyn giving some speech to promise a better relationship and system between Piltover and Zaun, then the speech getting interrupted by a jailbreak, one Vi initiates to free Jinx. As chaos again breaks out, Vi apologizes to Vander and grieves the fact that she truly is a bad sister.

I'd prefer letting the LOL players bridging the gaps between Arcane and LOL by themselves since they have better grasp of the lore, and also to help cover some obvious plot holes. Anyway that helped me cope; hope this helped you cope in some way too 💗

[p4nishers]

ok but the fact that "aziraphale is softening. they haven't spoken in a hundred years: he's realizing they're still friends" and "there's no need to thank me that's what...friends...are for" was in the same night is making me go INSANE

[ineffable-suffering]

„It‘s always too late“ (ft. Crowley‘s watch)

I‘m currently on vacation in Greece and, naturally, re-reading Good Omens (the book) for the nth time. And you know what keeps bugging me and has been nagging at my brain ever since S2 dropped?

Crowley‘s line, right after he threatens Jim at the bookshop („If anything happens to Aziraphale because of this–“) which he follows up by saying: „It doesn’t matter. It‘s always too late.“

I cannot tell you just how much this silly line has been festering at some back end corner of my brain. Because what do you mean, „it‘s always too late?“ Too late for what? Has it ever been to late before? To change an outcome? Seemingly not, since they stopped the literal end of the World barely a few years ago. That‘s the most „too late“ definition there is, and they still turned it around so that it wasn‘t. Too late, that is.

So why say this? With such defeat, as well?

I don‘t remember if it‘s series canon, however, in the book, we get this little foot note about Crowley‘s watch:

„This watch gave the time in twenty world capitals and in a capital city in Another Place, where it was always one time, and that was Too Late.“

Knowing Neil, this specific wording resurfacing in S2 cannot be a coincidence. „It was custom made for Crowley“ – by who? I‘d wager that human watch makers certainly couldn’t make a watch that shows a time such as „Too Late“ in „Another Place“.

We know and see Crowley‘s watch in S1.

I think the prop department left out the „Too Late“ bit of it, which is understandable. But it‘s book canon anyway and what matters more to me here, is that Crowley definitely wears a different watch in S2.

It‘s very nicely and accurately framed in many shots as well, including the promotion pictures. Yet another thing I‘d wager to not be a coincidence. But that‘s merely speculation, of course. A lot of props and a lot of Crowley‘s appearance changed since S1 and changes even throughout S2.

Whether or not this has any deeper meaning or is simply a red herring, is for Neil and the prop department only to know.

All I‘m saying is: The mysterious custom-made, possibly non-human-made watch that said it was always „Too Late“ is gone or at least changed with some focus shifted onto it, and yet: It‘s still always too late, according to Crowley.

Is it a metaphore? For Crowley‘s Fall and it always having been „Too Late“ for him in „Another Place“ (e.g. Heaven)?

Or is it a hint? To the Second Coming? To Armageddon not having been the only end of the World? To the unofficial picture where the whole world seems to have been destroyed and the last thing standing is the bookshop? To that version of world, where it seems to be too late after all?

Or is it just a watch? And just a line? And I should just put my book down and go for another swim in the ocean in case this is just a sun-induced conspiracy theory?

Let me know your thoughts, I‘m sure this has been wondered about before!

[formyloveoflove]

The Bear S3 and the Choices We Make

Ok. After a second watch of S3, I'm feeling a little bit more optimistic about the future. Trust - it's a sad ending. It's my worst nightmare for Sydney. But there's still hope, and that all lies in what Carmen and Syd decide to do next. Season 3 Spoilers - read at your own risk :)

In S3 E10 Forever, we see our two mains go through a breakthrough. Starting with Carmen, he finally confronts his former boss (who has a name, i think, but fuck him, I ain't using it). It's the first (and only time) that we see Carmen proactively voice his resentment. He avoids his mom (rightfully so imo). He never got the chance with Mikey. But he approaches him, expects the man to have repent (maybe), or at the very least, have a little remorse.

He doesn't. He regrets nothing. In fact, he takes credit for Carmen's success: his hard work, his skills, and his talent. He tells Carmen that he should be thanking him, and that's not even the worst of it. No, for me, it is when he says

Carmen: My life stopped. Chef: That's the point, right? [...] You wanted to be great. You wanted to be excellent. So you got rid of all the bullshit, and you concentrated, and you got focused, and you got great. You got excellent. It worked. You're here. Look at all this

Sound familiar? It should. It's the same sentiment that Carmen said in the Season 2 finale. Remember, he said,

I wasn't here. Right? What the fuck was I thinking? Like I was going to be in a relationship? I'm a fuckin' pyscho. That's why I'm good at what I do. That's how I operate. I am the best because I didn't have any of this fuckin' bullshit, right? I could focus, and I could concentrate.

Carmen's thoughts about himself aren't even his own. They were drilled into him by a man who wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. He was emulating the abusive behaviors and patterns that crushed him, that gave him "uclers, panic attacks, and nightmares" on the people that he cares about. On his sister, on Richie, on Tina and Marcus. and especially on Sydney, who is the only one who knows exactly how bad it can get. He's hurt those closest to him. He hurts them daily. And for what? And for why? For his own ego.

And this realization leads us to Carmen's first cry.

For three whole seasons, we see this man lose his idolized brother to suicide, witness his alcoholic mother physically, emotionally, and mentally abuse him, and experience mental degradation to the point where it affects his physical health. Not once did he shed a tear. This is the first time Carmen Berzatto lets himself cry. And I think this is the best thing for him. If he chooses to acknowledge the err of his ways, turn back course, and begin again, I think The Bear could be what he wanted it to be. He needs to decide to stop running, stop fighting himself and everybody around him. He needs to let go. Let it rip, right?

However, if this is what he decides to do, the cards ultimately fall into Sydney's hands.

If anybody's been through hell and back, it's Ms. Sydney Adamu. All season she's been forced to work in a volatile environment, putting herself between Carmen and whoever's the victim of his anger. She has her ideas shut down, her skills demeaned, and her credit is outright non-existent. Staff keeps quitting; they're not making any money; and Cicero and Co. is doing some shady background shit.

She's trapped, but not really. Not until she signs that Partnership Agreement. But like she told her dad in S2 E9 Omelette, she doesn't think she has another one in her. She can't have The Bear fail like Sheridan Road. She doesn't want to make the same mistakes she did last time. She wants to grow and learn and make her mark on the industry - prove she's not a failure.

She's waiting for Carmen to make good on his promises from The Table Scene, but he's not.

"You deserve my full focus." But his focus is not on her. Remember the Carmen that noticed when something was off with her? Remember the "say more?" or the "what's up with you?" Remember when they worked together, when the menu was truly theirs? Where was Sydney's "margin" moment? What did Carmen do this scene that signaled to Sydney that he was there and present.

"I couldn't do this without you." He does everything without her. Don't even get me started. From the menu to the list of nonnegotiables. Syd gets to make no decisions after being forced to make ALL the decisions. What is she there for? To be Carm's wrangler, his doormat? What has he does to convince her that she is invaluable?

He's egotistical. He's verbally abusive. He's the exact person that she warned him not to be. That he assured her that he wouldn't be in S1 E3 Brigade. She said,

You know I think this place could be so different from all the other places we've been at. But, in order for that to be true, we need to run things different. [...] But you just didn't really listen, and if this is going to work the way I think we both want it to work, I think we should probably try to listen to each other. The reason why I'm here, and not somewhere else or for someone else, is because I think I can stand out here. I can make a difference here. We could share ideas. I could implement things that make this place better. And I don’t wanna be wasting my time, working on another line or tweezing herbs on a dish that I don’t care about.

He didn't follow through the first time, so she left. But now, it's different. She's put her blood, sweat, and tears into this place. She's made a place (a home even) at The Bear. Leaving is not as simple anymore.

S1 Syd would've taken that CDC offer in a heartbeat. But building something and it failing (like The Bear. like Sheridan Road.) is terrifying. Slowly but surely, Carmen has been chipping away at her confidence and her fire. So much so that good things, like The Offer or the review of her risotto from The Beef, don't feel like good things.

Sydney's Panic Attack is HUGE for her character. We see Sydney at her lowest: her most frightening and vulnerable. She's uncertain. She's in a constant state of panic. And the person that she trusted with her fears and insecurities facilitated this, drove her to this point. It's heartbreaking. I cried when I saw it. No one would blame her for jumping ship. At this point, I encourage it (but she has to talk about it, acknowledge it. no running).

Now, if Carmen decides to change his ways, he'd have apologized to Sydney twice without changed actions. She'd have to believe him after many, many broken promises. At this time, she doesn't trust him, can't rely on him. But when having to decide between staying or going, will she try to trust him again?

Will she? Should she?

That's where I'm at so far. I have more thoughts, but I'll write those out when I get back from my weekend trip.

[genericpuff]

hi, i know the episode came out weeks ago, but i wanted to talk about ep 277 and your essay on it. i thought it was very well thought out and had brought up lots of concerns abt apollo's other victims and the harm persephone caused to others that i just. hadn't really thought about myself because honestly this webcomic is a BLUR to me LOL. thank you for writing these insights and putting them online for others to read ! i think you manage to keep a respectful distance to rachel [1/]

Yeah, regarding how the SA was handled...

I think Rachel did exactly as well as anyone might have expected someone like her to write a plotline like that.

Honestly if Rachel really did want to do the arrow thing, I think it would have worked WAY better if she had used the arrow of hate. First of all, because it had already been established back in S2 when it was shot at him by Psyche, but ALSO because making it an arrow of love confirmed that Eros literally did what Apollo asked despite the fact that he's Persephone's best friend and should have been more suspicious of what he was going to use it for. Why not just do a bait & switch where Apollo is under the impression that it's an arrow of love but Persephone trusts in her friend and pieces it together that it's probably an arrow of hate? It would also payoff the whole "news crew being nearby" thing (as well as all the other gods that just randomly showed up) because uh oh now they all see his true nature and he can't hide behind his lies anymore!

After all, as I mentioned in my previous post about this (the one I believe you're referring to) it's not like there wasn't already foreshadowing that Apollo was going to fall on his own sword the way of Mr Waternoose from Monster's Inc, he was already showing signs of cracking under the guilt that he was feeling towards how he treated Persephone/Eris/Hermes/etc. so why did it have to be Persephone taking a massive risk by sticking him with an arrow of love that still doesn't fully explain why he would even suddenly be a changed man? Loads of people like Apollo think they're in love / define their infatuation as love so I don't see how an arrow of love would suddenly make him empathetic to her pain. Especially when, again, he still begs her not to make him confess, so the guilt he's feeling is still completely empty and unmotivated.

I will leave this with one final thing that I saw the other day that very much reminded me of the Apollo SA plotline and I think it rings very true for the misdirected conclusion of the plot itself:

One of the biggest issues of the Apollo SA plotline, at least in my opinion, is that it never really gets to the root of why people like Apollo exist. There absolutely were strong foundations for this - he's the son of a guy who's known for being a serial cheater, he's popular and egotistical and is used to women wanting him, etc. - but all of those foundations kind of fell to the wayside in favor of turning Apollo into just another boogeyman, especially to lift Hades up as a "good man" by comparison (when Hades himself also falls on this spectrum). But many people like Apollo aren't just random guys in an alleyway or conspiring with some "higher power" that's manipulating them, they're men who fundamentally do not understand consent and assault on the varying spectrums in which it exists from "SA just exists, oh well" passiveness to "I'm an actual monster who gets pleasure out of victimizing women" aggressiveness. I think there's a lot to discuss about how people like Apollo exist WITHOUT sympathizing with them, but LO manages to do neither - not only does it give us uncomfortable and unnecessary looks into the rapist's POV more than we get the victims, but it does it in a way that doesn't actually address the issue of how people like Apollo come to be, it's just "Apollo is the big evil boogeyman who raped Persephone". Not only does it not actually put enough focus on the victims, but it reduces the societal and cultural complexities of where Apollo's brand of egotistical entitlement comes from to just "some guys just be evil like that". Guys like Apollo don't just come out of the womb like that, they're often shaped into what they are by a society that both excuses them for awful behavior towards girls ("Boys will be boys!") and enables - if not outright encourages - them to objectify women as trophies that they're entitled to. Even the seemingly innocent and sentimental practice of "giving away a bride" at a wedding is rooted in these patriarchal systems, with the belief that a woman first "belongs" to her father before being "given to" her husband.

It's the part of feminism that often gets overlooked - it's not just about uplifting female voices and helping survivors speak up about and heal from SA, it's also about deconstructing and challenging the patriarchal systems that lead to SA victims being created in the first place. Sure, Apollo got sentenced to building temples in the Mortal Realm, but what is that actually doing to address the bigger topic of how men like him come to exist in the first place? Especially when it was also treated as a good thing for TGOEM to be disbanded, instead of, idk... reworking it into a women's support group for survivors like Persephone?

IDK, it's a very complicated subject that you can approach from a million different angles, I don't think that my criticizing it should outweigh the opinions of those who were satisfied with the punishment that was given to Apollo (my saying the SA plotline sucked doesn't mean you're not allowed to find your own validation in it) but I do think that, at best, Rachel ended the SA plotline the only way she could because she herself is just not equipped to tackle such broad subjects that require a lot more education, experience, and nuance than what she's capable of writing. There are definitely 1298423108 better ways that plotline could have been resolved, but not with Rachel Smythe at the helm.

And that's my many cents on that.

[teambyler]

Will's anti-Vecna song should be David Bowie's "Heroes"

We know from the new BTS pic that he has headphones and a Walkman. Like Max, he might be fending off Vecna:

Max's anti-Vecna song was highly personal to her. It helped her through her guilt and depression and feeling like she deserved to die.

For Will, "Should I Stay or Should I Go" is cute, but it doesn't have emotional weight. It might have helped a child Will in the Upside Down in s1, when it made him think of home and Jonathan, but he's all grown up now. He's changed.

If Byler becomes realized, David Bowie's "Heroes" is the perfect song for Mike and Will's relationship that would help Will resist Vecna. It's canon that Will likes David Bowie: kid Mike prefers the androgynous rock star over Kenny Rogers (s2e1).

@surferbeto on YouTube comments:

This is a heroic love song. Bowie starts out crooning but pretty soon he ramps up and belts it out hard. This song is about risking getting shot by East German border police and dragged over barbed wire for love. This is about young love against impossible odds. It's about that gloriously tragic fantasy... of giving our life in some grandly romantic way to save the life of our beloved. Maybe by taking a bullet for them and dying in their arms in the shadow of the Berlin Wall.

Having David Bowie's "Heroes" in the show would call-back to Peter Gabriel's somber 2010 cover from s1, when Mike hugged his mom thinking Will was dead. But Bowie's original is defiant, triumphant, and bittersweet. (Seriously, if you haven't yet, listen to it before reading further. It's perfect.)

It would play when Mike and Will have their first kiss. Their song of losing each other is now of finding each other.

If Byler is realized, it could play as Mike and Will dare to hold hands in the school hall, as we fade out to the end credits.

Will would put it on his Walkman. If Will and Mike are bullied for their relationship, "Heroes" perfectly expresses their defiance and willingness to love each other despite the harm that might come to them.

It's the song that would most help Will in case he gets Vecna'd. It doesn't just remind him of Mike; it culminates his journey over the five seasons. As a kid he told Jonathan he's not a baby, not just a victim. Despite seeming shy and weak, he has a huge amount of quiet courage, but his struggle in s3 and s4 was largely internal. ("I'm not gonna fall in love.") Show creator Matt Duffer says about s5: "Will's going to be a big part and focus... We're starting to see his coming of age, really... You're starting to see him come into his own." If Byler becomes real, then his fight becomes external, confronting the homophobia in Hawkins and the literal hell threatening his friends. He will rise to the occasion.

"Will really takes center stage again in [season] 5," Ross Duffer told Variety. "This emotional arc for him is what we feel is going to hopefully tie the whole series together. Will is used to being the young one, the introverted one, the one that’s being protected. So part of his journey, it’s not just sexuality – it’s Will coming into his own as a young man."

In s2, Will only allowed Mike to protect him because he didn't feel pitied by Mike; Mike saw his strength. A stronger Will will pay him back and protect him from the twin dangers they face.

It's Will's turn to be the hero. His fight for others is his fight for himself. "Heroes" perfectly expresses his journey of defying all odds to fight for HIS RIGHT TO LOVE.

-teambyler

[dragonfly0808]

How the Squad Found Out About that One Time Riven and Flora Kissed

First part of the chapter takes place during s4, second part is back in s2 ch28, right after the end of the chapter.

I’d originally planned to have Flo and Riv kiss in that chapter but decided against it last minute cause I just wasn’t sure how to make it clear that, while there could’ve been something there, and they both feel that, there are no actual romantic feelings between the two.

The possibility of them? Yes. the reality of them? No.

I feel like Riven and Flora have the most distinct platonic soulmate relationship, mainly because they’re the main ones I really could see falling for each other if things had been different and if they hadn’t meet Musa and Helia and I wanted to get that across in a poetic way but not a tragic way ya know? They didn’t lose anything for not falling for each other in this universe and they are still a huge part of each other’s lives if that makes sense?

Whatever, I’ll stop rambling, hope u enjoy this little drabble! I will be posting it on AO3 probably later on

***

It’d been a slow week, no activity from the Wizards and Roxy’s classes progressing nicely.

The squad had decided to have a quiet game night, with some alcohol coming into the mixture at some point.

At the moment, they were playing Truth or Dare.

In all honesty, there was very little they didn’t know about each other, but even after so long, there were still a few things that could surprise them from time to time.

Stella considered her turn, the bottle on the ground dictating that she’d gotten Riven.

The coward had chosen truth.

There were few things she could ask him that could result in anything majorly interesting.

Unless… Stella glanced towards Flora, who was leaning against Helia, his arm wrapped around her shoulders.

Anyone who had eyes could tell Flora and Riven had adored each other since their first year. That was obvious. At this point it was also obvious that, while they didn’t see each other as siblings, they didn’t see each other in any kind of romantic light either.

…but she would be lying if she said that she wasn’t curious about whether or not they ever had, even for a fleeting moment. Especially since she did remember one particular evening during their second year in which they’d both seemed… almost bashful with each other.

Should she?

Stella slowly leaned back against Brandon’s chest, meeting Riven’s challenging look, “Okay, I know what I want to ask.”

Riven spread his hands, “Go on then buttercup.”

“Have you ever… kissed someone in this room-” she ignored the snorts, continuing, “who wasn’t Musa?”

Riven froze for a split second, clearly flabbergasted before casting a single quick glance towards Flora, who had sunk into Helia’s arms, covering her face as she flushed.

“Listen-”

“I FUCKING KNEW IT!” Stella shouted, slamming a hand against the ground.

Musa broke down into giggles as she turned to Riven, “What?”

“No- it- it was before we were dating obviously. It was dumb we just…”

“We were fucking up a lot with you two so we got a little drunk and we kissed to seal our depressing marriage pact.” Flora explained.

Helia chuckled under his breath before turning to Riven with mock anger, “You got a marriage pact with my girl? What happened to the bro code?”

“We were drunk, depressed and hating on love. She was obsessed with you, I was obsessed with Musa but we were fully convinced we’d just fucked everything up for good- cut us some slack man!”

They all burst out laughing, clinging to each other as they Flora somehow sunk further into the floor and Riven hid his face in Musa’s neck.

***

Flora was thinking, unable to focus on the book in her hand. She could feel the alcohol at the base of her skull, a dull thump, barely there but just present enough to make her think.

She’d freaked out on Helia.

Riven loved her. He was her person.

Did that mean something? Or did she just want a connection that her baggage didn’t impede?

She turned to him, watching him as he tinkered on one of his projects, trying to think objectively.

He noticed after a moment, meeting her gaze, “Something wrong?”

“No, I was just… thinking.”

“About?”

He’d freaked out on Musa.

Flora loved him. She was his person.

But how did she love him? Was her mind playing tricks on her?

“Have you ever thought… that maybe… you and I should try?”

One of his eyebrows slowly rose up as he set down his tools and fully turned to face her, crossing his arms and leaning back, “I won’t lie… the thought did cross my mind once or twice… before I really started catching feelings for Musa. You?”

“Same. Before I fell for Helia… I don’t know, maybe I thought about it in passing.” But she would’ve never acted on it even back then because she knew Musa had a crush.

“It’s weird isn’t it… if not just sad. That we’ve had so little love in our lives that now we’re doubting what we have.” Riven muttered under his breath, letting his head fall back as he sighed.

“Yeah… should we… do something about it?”

“Like what?”

“I don’t know.”

Riven raised his head, inspecting her before going to join her on the small couch, sitting besides her.

“Should we kiss?” He asked, it sounded like he was asking himself just as much as he was asking her.

Flora considered, “I mean… could be like… sealing the marriage pact?” She took a deep breath, shaking off her nerves, this was her person, worst case scenario, it might be a bit gross, “Okay. I’m in if you’re in.”

Riven nodded along, “Okay.”

He leaned down to meet her halfway. It was a hesitant, yet gentle kiss, soft and slow as they both tried to figure out how they felt about it.

Seconds passed and they pulled apart, both leaning against the couch, staring at the wall before them.

“I mean… it didn’t feel… wrong.” She started hesitantly.

“But it didn’t feel right either.”

“Exactly.”

They glanced at each other before laughing light-heartily. Blushing out of embarrassment and awkwardness.

“If things were different… maybe then.” He said after a long minute.

She shrugged, bumping her shoulder against his, “Maybe in another life.”

He snorted, “Yeah, maybe in another life.”

[stackslip]

so after a second watch, the thing with arcane s2 so far is that near all the plot beats are really good and exactly what i wanted, but they also almost all desperately needed more buildup. it's like we're missing 10-15 extra minutes an episode for the scenes that would really flesh out a lot of the characters' motives for the choices they make and to build up the world! it's so painfully obvious that they're craming in plot bc they're missing a season or have cut time per ep, and as a result while im ecstatic at a lot of the developments v few of them feel earned!

vi choosing to become an enforcer, her agonizing feelings re jinx in particular feel like they're missing. we should have seen the moment cait chose to use the vents to target the undercity and others' reaction to this, especially vi. it's great to see the hole silco left, but we needed to see the underground falling apart in something that's not a shiny league amv. we needed to see the kid spend more time with jinx for her choice to defend jinx to hit harder. we needed to see more of jinx's suicidality and her voices disappearing. i would have been so grateful to see mel trying to do more to rally to counter her mother's influence and being foiled at every turn. more hints of ambessa's manipulation too! would have loved to see ekko and his peers rescuing undercity people and dealing with the aftermath of the war there directly!

and like tbc i think they v clearly considered what they did have the time with and chose to trim or cut off near anything that wasnt a super cool fight scene or important plot beats. the ACTUAL beats are near all a win to me tbh! i am ecstatic about cait's character arc, her using the vents made me gasp; the mel and ambessa situation is sooooo fascinating and fucked up; i love the revelation about hextech poisoning the ground; sevika and jinx dealing with the gaping wound of silco's death is so good; viktor's ominous messiah arc is hitting for me; i loooooved cait hitting vi and vi just breaking down.

in terms of missteps, i wish ekko didnt feel like he's just being explained plot at (i like his dynamic with jayce so far tho), i think vi of all the characters suffered by far the most of the sacrificed time to make her choices and words mame proper sense, caitvi kiss felt far more like they had to kiss before they broke up but in context did not work, and made me roll my eyes so hard, we did not need a five minute cait angst montage, i did not care for how "league" the zaunite chembarons felt instead of an organic part of zaun like they did in s1, half the songs are a complete miss to me, etc etc

i dont think the season is a loss and again im interested in the actual beats, and tbh i kinda feel sorry for fortiche and the writing team bc it's obvious that this is less like, active clumsiness on their part or shite writing and far more that time was a deeply limited resource for the story they wanted to tell and they had to make choices. you could argue if it would have been better to drop some plot threads entirely and focus more deeply on others but imo it wouldnt work for a series like arcane where the cast' actions have such massive ramifications on each other so. i get it. it's just really unfortunate considering how tightly written s1's tragedy was

[crismakesstuff]

so from what ive been seeing in the show so far it seems they’re gonna pair off paul with debbie and here’s why I don’t rly like it

btw in case anyone is wondering yes this happened in the comic and here’s comic paul vs show paul for comparasion

(At least they wont have debbie fucking a hospice patient in this)

while im normally all for “yes girl get that dick” in terms of Debbie’s character it just seems ,, cheapening to chain her to another man to show she’s “whole” now. Debbie as a character/person has little to nothing to gain out of this relationship realistically. Women can live without “needing”a relationship to make them complete. Especially after what she’s gone through, like thats a 20 year relationship its gonna leave emotional scars.

Also the show seems to have this AVERSION to giving debbie actual female friends for longer than 1 scene at a time. Like im happy she has Art as a friend but she needs a woman in her life. Like I loved the scene with Olga at the start of s2 and the interaction w Carol of the SOS group but! Olga went back to Moscow and debbie can’t return to the group of bc of alana’s ugly ass ex husband. Like if they MUST pair her off with Paul just like the comic at least idk show that her past trauma is affecting her? Show her being messy and making mistakes or even Paul pointing out like “hey I don’t think you’re in the headspace for this” and breaking it off

Maybe then have debbie realize she’s better off single and begins to focus more on herself now! She could get a good friend group (or at least one female bestie pls) and in that stability of being single and with more immediate support in new friends! Show her taking up new hobbies to occupy her time outside of her job and enjoying life without ‘needing’ a partner, no characters growth should be dependent on a romantic partner!

It will make whenever nolan drags his sorry ass back to earth to see her that much more hard hitting because she doesn’t need him, he needs her. it’ll add so much more depth and struggle to him just trying to regain her trust and then if the show does do them getting back together it’ll actually feel more earned instead of happening off screen which I hated.

Also bc in the comic debbie breaks it off with paul bc after she sees nolan again she says “it didnt feel right being with paul anymore” like,, its so bs. Comic debbie has no self respect.

Ok thats all bye bye

[cringefailvox]

i hope that valentino doesn't die in s2, and not just because i like him and want to see more of him.

i actually think val is a really good opportunity for hazbin to dig into how it defines redemption. every character in the show has a different ethical outlook on hell and the idea of redemption, but the two main ones seem to be charlie (everyone is capable of changing for the better when offered support and safety, and everyone should be provided those things regardless of what they've done) and alastor/lucifer/adam (people are naturally inclined towards wrongdoing, there are no second chances, and hell is both a punishment and cosmic justice). val is the perfect character to exemplify the struggle between these two different outlooks. CAN someone as awful and abusive as val be redeemed? and if so, what would that look like? how would we ensure his victims are safe from him while also giving him space to grow and change? if he can't be redeemed, what's the threshold for irredeemability? can we agree on what makes someone so bad there's no hope? can we quantify which sins are worse than others, and how?

(and by the way, what even gets someone into heaven, and who decides? hazbin seems like this is the main question it's beginning to focus on, so i have a lot of hope for how this one will get resolved. because at the moment, it seems like self-sacrifice is what gets you there, and that is deeply unsatisfying to me—you shouldn't have to give up everything, up to and including your life, to be considered "good enough". it's a vehemently christian idea that martyrdom is righteous and i fucking hate it.)

and if charlie's ethics are universal, she'll have to commit to redeeming people like val, otherwise she undermines her entire mission by picking and choosing who gets to have support and who doesn't. if charlie's ethics aren't universal, we could start really digging more into how her personal attachments to angel dust could present a conflict of interest in her values, like we did with vaggie; are people only worthy of her unconditional encouragement if she loves them? what are the implications of THAT?

my personal value system believes that there's no such thing as someone being irredeemable. there's only people who actively choose not to try, even after they've been provided love, support and well-intended challenges from people who want to see them grow. there needs to be space for people to be safe from their abusers and space for abusers to reform themselves and participate in society, otherwise our options become banishment or execution and i doubt that's the ethical message hazbin wants us to walk away with. val's positioning in the narrative and his close connection to angel makes him the perfect candidate to really challenge charlie's commitment to her ideals, since she doesn't already love him (like vaggie) and he isn't actively trying to be better (like angel or pentious). killing him would be unsatisfying, as well as letting everybody off the hook too easy. i want these bitches neck-deep in painful ethical dilemmas.

ultimately, i hope that hazbin goes the teshuvah route regarding sin. in judaism, teshuvah is the process of repentance for sin, but it also means "return" because the hebrew word for sin, chet, means missing the mark. sin is when we don't quite hit the target how we should have. it's not something you're born with, it's something you do, and it's something you can choose not to do. teshuvah is slow and difficult and a lifelong process, not a one-time golden ticket to heaven. i hope hazbin ends up in the same vein as this, where reforming sinners becomes more about repairing broken relationships, crafting a better society, and harm reduction instead of the ultimate goal being entry to heaven. i think that would be far more interesting and cathartic to me than anything else

[bridgertonnteas]

Are they trying to shift Bridgerton into more of an ensemble show like Grey’s instead of the anthology feel we’ve been getting in s1 and s2?

Do you think Polin will have a big subplot next season?

Yes, that's what I have been getting & what I have been hearing too. They slowly started it in s2 in a subtle way but went with it full force with s3 because both Pen & Colin are already known characters that have been building up through past seasons, so they felt that it wasn't needed to give them extra focus

Things I already know about s4:

1-Fran & Michaela will have a side plot to build Michaela as a character

2-If Ben is the lead, they are going to make Eloise the biggest side story and build for her romance/season with Phillip, some of the rumored production locations are related to Eloise story actually. In Ben season think of her side story as Fran side story in Polin season. If Eloise is the lead, Ben will have the biggest side story of him searching for the person he met at the masquerade ball. Again I will say that so far the talks around is that s4 is Ben's season, but we shall see when they are done with rewrites & make an official announcement

3-Polin will be back and possibly going to get more plot based on the success of their season. They are both important to Ben & Eloise's seasons, so they should get a decent side plot regardless. Pen keeping her column opens a door for a bigger storyline for them. The heir plot in s3 was to get them to live near the Bridgeton house so they could always be there too

[darkstarofchaos]

Having seen some frankly irritating opinions from both sides of the aisle, I think some of y'all need to chill about the way the Decepticons were handled in EarthSpark.

Decepticon fans are allowed to be upset that the faction's depth and potential for development was tossed aside in favor of "Decepticons are just evil".

However, depth and potential doesn't mean the Decepticons have to be buddy-buddy with the Autobots. Depth is amoral, you can be a villain who resists "redemption" and still be a well-rounded character.

My issues with S2 vs S1 are as follows:

The lack of good explanation for why the sides are fighting again. I am not upset that the Cons are villains again. They have no reason to like or trust any human or Autobot, and gratitude for having your life saved only goes so far. My issue is that S2 literally opens by saying the Cons started the fight again just because that's what Cons do. Obviously the story is from the perspective of the main cast, and there are hints that they could be intentionally unreliable narrators (Starscream refers to them as oppressors, Breakdown challenges Bumblebee about giving up on Cybertron), but we aren't given enough time with the Cons to draw a solid conclusion about the intentions here.

The way the heroes treat Spitfire, i.e. a literal newborn. She was 100% in the right when she said that she didn't know the moral rules she was being expected to follow. But because she wasn't born with morals and an understanding of mortality preinstalled, the heroes condemned her instead of trying to de-escalate and take responsibility for their part in the situation (granted, Megatron was the only flight-capable adult present and he argued against de-escalation. Which tracks because he's Megatron. But someone should have pushed for a peaceful resolution).

How much depth do individual Decepticons still have? Who knows, Starscream, Shockwave, and Breakdown are the only ones with any focus. The others are only seen fighting, causing trouble for fun, or just standing around growling. Twitch - i.e. one of our main characters - literally spends an entire episode in the Con camp and we still manage to see nothing of Decepticon life when they're just hanging out. And yes, I know that the more characters you have in a scene, the harder it is to show their personalities. You can still show them playing cards or arm-wrestling or something. Anything to show that they're actually people and not just a hive mind that exists to fight.

Starscream. Specifically the last 20 minutes of the S2 finale, because everything else in his characterization fit S1 until that point. He literally calls the Autobots oppressors, so of course he's going to fight them. He wants Aftermath kept out of the way (that's a child, so that's perfectly reasonable) and he's frankly patient with Twitch-as-Spitfire, in spite of Skywarp's incredulity that he lets her "get away" with causing trouble (again, that is a child. Patience is the correct response). He even seems to like Spitfire after meeting the real her. The only issue I had with Starscream leading up to the second half of the finale was that his motivations didn't seem to be much deeper than "I want power" (I could be misremembering that point - there may have been an "Earth is going to be our home, let's make it better to live on" when he and Shockwave discussed Cybertron). And then the last 20 minutes happened and I can't see any logical extrapolation from S1 to that. It was just a generic "Starscream goes mad with power", and it came completely out of left field. Not even any remorse about what he "needed" to do or any attempt to justify himself, it was just, "Yeah, I'm worse than the people I called out for being oppressors, isn't it great?"

If there is some big plot twist where it turns out the heroes were unreliable narrators all along, some of my issues will actually be fixed. However, I find that extremely unlikely, for one major reason: all of the non-Decepticon characters who disagree with the heroes are either villains or they "come around". The Quintessons felt betrayed by Quintus? Nah, Quintus was a great guy, you can tell because he tortured a kid for wishing she had never been chosen by him. Prowl doesn't like the Autobots' reliance on children? Silly Prowl, those kids are special, we want them to fight. The narrative never, at any point, entertains the idea that those dissenting voices might have a point. Which means we're probably meant to take the heroes at face value on most, if not all things.

TL;DR: the Decepticons being villains makes perfect sense, even with the context of S1; it's the heroes acting like they're only fighting for power after we had several episodes about second chances and not all Decepticons being the same that makes it feel like a cop-out. And Decepticon fans are allowed to be upset that some of their favorite characters had interesting stuff going on only to be functionally relegated to Voiceless Grunt Number 3 (and yes, several Autobots have also been relegated to Voiceless Grunts. If one of your favorite characters has fallen victim to this affliction, regardless of faction, you have my sympathies).

[pink-ninja]

Dragons rising s2 part 2 spoilers and a bit of a rant about arin

Honestly I could rant about it for a long time but to me Arin acted just so selfishly this entire half of the season, I get it, he wants to find his parents, but he's not the only one who lost someone important to them.

It made me so mad that he threw a fit and ignored Sora for half the episodes cause she "lied to him about his object spinjitzu" like no Arin, the world was at stake and nobody could afford for you to miss that throw, she didn't tell you about it because your self confidence in your skills was low and she didn't want to make it worse. And don't get me started on him thinking that Lloyd promised Arin they'd find his parents but haven't yet after he heard Lloyd promising Nya they'd go look for Jay after the tournament.

I get the ninja are arin's idols, but sometimes it seems like he forgets the ninja are way more than what the public sees, etc all the stuff they did before they got famous, how they were super young when they became ninja. And Lloyd from the very start told Arin he couldn't be their master, that he wasn't good enough to be one, he agreed to be their teacher but constantly insisted they need master Wu, obviously he couldn't give them the best training from the start because he'd never trained anyone and was just trying to use Wu's old teachings because that's how all the other ninja were taught. Lloyd never lied to Arin and gave him false promises (like Wu telling Morro he'd be the green ninja) he told Arin he has amazing potential, Lloyd never said he was some amazing teacher, he was transparent about his doubts from the start. But in my opinion Arin is still idolizing the ninja, and obviously they can't do everything at once like finding arin's parents, Lloyd mentioned from the very start they still didn't know everything about the new merged realms or how the merge happened. Plus Arin isn't the only one who lost someone, Zane is still missing pixal, wyldfyre misses Kai, Nya is clearly distraught over Jay, I'm sure they'd want nothing more than to go out looking for the people they care about, but they don't because they know they a responsibility to keep the world safe (as asked of them by a source dragon who went down to the mortal world specifically to ask them)

My other beef with Arin is after the ghost of sensei Wu appeared, he asked if sensei Wu was responsible for the merge, Wu said yes, Arin then proceeds to tell Lloyd in the middle of a pretty chaotic fight where one of the five has pretty much all the elemental powers, we can tell Lloyd is shocked by the information, but he quickly burries those thoughts because he knows he has to focus on the current situation. Even Zane tells Arin it's a lot to process, Arin should know that they have to stop the 5 and protect the source dragons but instead he chooses to hold a grudge against Lloyd for focusing on their current situation instead of something nobody can change, especially at the current moment, and then chooses to side with Ras, even after everything Ras had done to them in the past, just because Ras told him part of the truth, Arin didn't take a moment to wonder if Ras was hiding something else, because he's after the source dragons and then says he only trusts Ras now. Like I get it Arin wants to find his parents, but Lloyd never forced Arin to become a ninja, Arin started calling Lloyd his master, Arin was the one that wanted to train to be a ninja first

And maybe I'm a little biased cause Lloyd is my favorite (but I also love jaya so if Nya could pause her search for Jay because she knows she's needed elsewhere) Arin should be able to understand that the ninja's first priority is to keep the world safe, one of lloyd's biggest priorities since a bunch of things about the merge are tied to his grandfather and the source dragons (plus he's the conduit) and that even if they wanted to the ninja can't just drop everything and search the entire merged realms for arin's parents.

Like I want nothing more than to give Arin a well needed lecture about how he is the one that wanted to join the ninja in the first place and honestly he could've easily told Lloyd "hey I'm leaving on a journey to go find my parents because unlike you, finding my parents is my top priority, not saving the world"

I know I've got a long rant but ever since I finished the last episode of season 2 it's been on my mind, and of course this is just a personal opinion

[sissytobitch10seconds]

My suggestion for how to fix the Stolas Problem

Don't know what the Stolas Problem is? Don't worry! I'll explain it to you. The Stolas Problem is an issue that the Helluva Boss show is having in which the entire premise of the show has basically been scraped to instead focus on a character that was supposed to be a love interest only. The end of the first season and beginning of the second also majorly ret-conned him so that he is no longer a sympathetic or fun character. It transformed him from someone that was horny all the time and rather bad, but typical for what a demon in Hell should have been, to a sadistic delusion narcissitic jerk that coerced a lower being into having sex with him or else Blitz's only friends and daughter would be out on the street. It went from them using each other to Stolas coercing and raping Blitz in what's called a quid pro quo relationship. So that being said, let's get going!

Instead of having him be sad that he's not loved by Blitz, have him be oddly excited about the date and trying to figure out why his feelings are so weird, maybe through the song Stella yells at him for.

Get rid of The Circus entirely, it's unnecessary and makes the quid pro quo rape really uncomfortable because Stolas thinks they're basically dating instead of just using him back.

Get rid of Seeing Stars. We already had a "Stolas trying to love his daughter the way she needs" episode and this is just making him look far worse. If you want to show more Stolas then have him out with Via when Blitz is calling him for help with the DHORKS or something.

Make Stella an actual person and show her in the background with Via. If you want her to be abusive, make sure that none of her actions mimic Loona or Stolas or any of the other characters that are seen in the show like they currently do.

Put Western Energy at the end of S2 and put more episodes specifically just about IMP. Maybe develop Millie more as a character, have the episode where Blitz tells Loona that she needs to be nicer be a full thing where he has to try and hire other secretaries but finds that she's the only one that works for them. The show is about Blitz, the protagonist, not about Stolas the love interest.

The "He can get hurt?" is the perfect thing to perk up Blitz's love for Stolas so it should definitely be at the end.

Show more of them liking each other after the awkwardness of their first 'date' at Ozzie's. Show them cuddling in bed or laughing about something or deciding that they don't want to have sex after trying awkwardly for an episode and so they just sit and eat ice cream while bonding over a shared interest. Right now the only thing drawing these two together is the narrative.

I also think making him a serial cheater would explain the fetishization of Blitz' demonic race, by having previous partners enjoy being degraded and talk to that way. It could end up with them having a fight and that's how Stolas confesses by saying he wants to learn Blitz more than he did them because he loves him.

Have Blitz still get back with Fizz as friends but explore more of their romantic feelings to show what Blitz thinks a relationship should be except it's not what all relationships had to be because they had puppy love and not grown adult with kids love.

If you have any ideas of other things that might help make their relationship more believable or make more sense, feel free to add to this last!

[queen-of-hawkins-why-ler]

The genius of Byler in s1 (the significance of Mike and Will spending all season separated)

Y'all, I started a ST rewatch from season 1, and I just wanted to make a post about how genius the setup of Byler and Mike and El's relationship is from the very beginning of the show. Actually, I believe that Byler has only been able to progress as a slowburn love story and eventual plot twist because of how strategically it was initially set up.

Mike and Will are introduced as having a "different" sort of relationship with each other, as opposed to the standard friendships they share with Dustin and Lucas. Right off the bat, we see that Will values being honest and vulnerable with Mike more than he values things that would otherwise benefit him. Around Lucas and Dustin, he acts as though he is fine with winning the DND game as long as Mike doesn't see the roll, but as soon as they leave, he admits to Mike that he lost and that the demagorgon got him.

We can also see that Mike has a different sort of relationship with Will than he has with the other boys. What is important to note, though, is that in s1 we only see the special care and affection Mike has towards Will in the context of Will not being physically present, as he has been taken by the demagorgon. Mike acts a good deal more concerned about Will and more eager to find Will than Lucas and Dustin do. He is the character of focus or the "protagonist" in s1, so we see him talking about Will to his family, and we see how upset he gets when he sees Will's "corpse" at the lake. El, Lucas, and Dustin all stay at the quarry, and Mike has an emotional meltdown and bikes home crying and hugs his mom. In this way, the show is suggesting from s1 that Will is special to Mike in a way that is different from how Mike views/treats Lucas and Dustin. But the thing is, we assume that Mike's perspective is only highlighted BECAUSE he's the protagonist/character of focus and not because his relationship with Will is unique and something we should be paying attention to.

I fully believe that if Mike and Will had been together in s1 the way they are in s2 and if we'd seen the way Mike acts around Will in s2 from the very beginning, then Byler would have been a lot more obvious, and I think we would've been able to recognize from the very beginning that Mike and Will are gay and that their relationship is building up to a romance. But because we only see Mike's care and affection for Will in light of Will's absence in s1, we can't connect those dots and recognize the love they have for each other. Also, we are introduced to El right after Will gets taken, and Mike spends all season with El, developing a relationship with her: a relationship that for all intents and purposes holds the appearance of a romance, even leading to a kiss. It's no wonder why the audience ships M*leven in the beginning instead of Byler, because all we have to go off of is Mike and El's close relationship and the high amount of screentime they spend together vs Mike and Will's one shared scene. We don't see Mike's sweetness and protectiveness over Will until season 2, but by that time, we have already had the expectation set for us that Mike and El are in love, so we never stop to consider that maybe the show is actually building up Byler. S2 is a direct reversal of Mike's relationships with El and Will in s1, with him looking for and missing El the way did with Will in s1, and sharing a lot of screentime/sweet moments with Will the way he did with El in s1. But because s1 already set the precedent that M*leven is romantic and Byler is platonic, we have no reason to assume that the roles are actually opposite from what we were initially shown.

The only reason Byler works the way it does is because 1. we are tricked into thinking that we are only shown how much Mike cares about Will because he is the protagonist and not because his relationship with Will is special, and 2. s1 builds up Mike and El's relationship while never properly showing us Mike and Will's relationship, only introducing the true prospect of Byler once we have already grown attached to Mike and El's relationship and the idea of Mike and El being in love. In s3, Mike and El date and make out all the while Mike and Will's relationship is rocky, so we have reason to believe that Mike is in love with/cares about El primarily and struggles in his friendship with Will because he is too focused on El. Even leading into s4, we assume that Mike and Will's friendship is still rocky bc Mike has been neglecting Will in favor of El and not because he's coming to terms with his feelings for Will and dealing with internalized homophobia. Yet, once Byler becomes canon and people go back and watch the show in light of it being canon, they will see that Will has always been special to Mike and that their relationship has always been highlighted as being noteworthy and different. We simply weren't able to recognize it from s1 because we never saw Mike and Will together: only how much Mike cared about Will while he was gone. And by the time their relationship turned blatantly romantic and special in s2, we still couldn't recognize it because of the expectation of M*leven. The writing for Byler is just so genius and well thought out even from the start.

[bullagit]

honestly it's just funny to me when people are like "aziraphale had to be talked into even trying to save the earth blah blah blah" trying to make him out to be a Bad Person. meanwhile in canon it took like, 1.5 conversations and less than a day because he DID want to do it and jumped on the first feasible idea.

and then they conveniently ignore that he spends the rest of season one actively continuing to do everything in his power that he can think of to save the earth, despite every obstacle and despite CROWLEY actively saying they should give up on that and run away together instead

(which all these same people conveniently... never seem to mention or frame as crowley being a Bad Person. the same way they never seem to try to frame him calling aziraphale stupid or his little "i'm leaving forever and when i'm gone i'll never even THINK ABOUT YOU AGAIN" moment as him being a bad person, instead suddenly being much more willing to sympathize and give him the benefit of the doubt. hmm go figure).

like he literally tries to talk to GOD up close and personal to change her mind. he throws down his uniform, refuses the war, and goes AWOL back to earth determined to save it, even knowing that he's pretty much signing up to lose EVERYTHING that he's built on earth for himself, even thinking he possibly lost crowley already by pushing him away, like.

when satan is en route to the airbase, wouldn't you know, crowley is the one who says it's over we're fucked there's nothing we can do and aziraphale is the one who says no, we can't give up now after everything, and gives crowley the push he needs to buy them some time.

i'll never say he's a perfect uwu bean or that he always goes about things the right way but like, this weird thing (especially post s2) where people try to project some different character onto him just never goes over. he's not self-absorbed or callous or power-hungry or stupid or too naive or completely selfish. fundamentally.

also he wouldn't take angel crowley over modern crowley. he loves crowley in every capacity and every form and through every change and tbh like. he understands that those aren't actually two completely separate entities, and crowley is one person who's been through so much and had to change so much, and he loves all of him.

their relationship is not toxic or abusive. they understand each other in ways nobody else ever will. they push each other to be better and appreciate each other for everything that they are, that they have been, that they could be, and they continually choose to come back to each other no matter what fight they have or challenge they face.

every day i gotta get out here like you know you can just like the character crowley better... and relate to him more... without having to twist around to justify it as some moral superiority thing. like that's fine and normal, to just like a character better than a different character and focus on them more.