#sith discourse

[kateeorg]

Between the gods discourse from Critical Role and the Force/Jedi/Sith discourse from The Acolyte, I'm just like... even fictional religion is stressful to talk about, man. Really interesting, sure, but the implications and different factions and multitude of things to consider just make my head hurt and I need to stop looking at it and take a break.

[asteroids-and-tractorbeams]

Everyone saying “boo hoo if only Anakin had a therapist” sure is forgetting that scene with Yoda where he was trying to figure out if Anakin was okay and he completely denied that there was anything wrong at all

[underwaterspiderbird]

you know it, i know it, your pet rock knows it, your kyber crystal knows it, we all know it.

[the-far-bright-center]

In my view, ‘Star Wars’ is the Prequels and Original Trilogy—aka, the story of Anakin’s rise, fall, and redemption. In other words, the Skywalker saga. I simply cannot relate to the (imo, fanon) idea that the Jedi are the MAIN protagonists of the story. This was never the case, not in the Lucas saga, at least. It’s not that the Jedi are the ‘bad guys’, either—it’s just that the Skywalker family is what the saga is actually about. The Sith vs. Jedi struggle is simply the *backdrop* against which the story is set. The fact that so many fans seem to insist otherwise is one of the many reasons I struggle to engage with current SW fandom.

[dathomirdumpsterfire]

(credits to @matt-murdvck and @former-ly-darth for orig gifs)

[vigilskeep]

sorry for that post i watched the start of a new star wars show with my brother and i briefly went into the tags to see what people are saying and i couldn’t quite believe how much it sucks in there. wow. the memories

[redstuffs-ig]

star wars fans when a show doesn't lick the jedi's boots a new shine: 🤯

star wars fans when a show doesn't beat the shit out of the jedi with lead pipes: 🤯

[bluntblade]

Every time someone utters a "Palpatine would have protected his people from the Vong or the Gryssk" kind of take in my presence, they very nearly get bludgeoned to death by the historian in me and the Warhammer 40K fan in me.

The historian is clubbing then with a copy of Barbarossa: History's Bloodiest War, while the 40K fan dual-wields Wrath of Iron and a lore book on Tyranid invasions.

[mandalora]

It’s probably an inevitability of a franchise being this far reaching and this popular and this long lasting but it is so baffling how much of the wider star wars fanbase tries to “fix” star wars

[bereft-of-frogs]

…

To the person with the villain manifesto in the acolyte tag this morning, I’m not going to pretend I don’t understand where your point is coming from and I understand it’s reactionary, and I’ve certainly been on the villain-stan side plenty of times before…

But also I have not been fighting for my life on Reddit for weeks defending Vernestra’s character and having to see people call her a bitch, and challenging everyone accusing Indara of being a secret Sith Lord because I suspect audiences just don’t know what to do with reserved female characters and are looking for a more comfortable explanation for her demeanor, to have someone imply that I’m upholding the conservative patriarchy for favoring them over the male villain now.

I’m sorry to wade into the discourse. I also love Manny Jacinto. But…my Jedi ladies 😭

UPDATE: I’m getting downvoted for calling out the sexism in Darth Plagueis and agreeing with someone that I hope Osha ends up being Plagueis (fairly obviously joking as well lol, I know it’s not going to happen but it would be hilarious), yup, there I go upholding the patriarchy for favoring the heroes

[christensen]

there is truly no moderation in the star wars fandom, it's either "here's how the jedi were acktchually evil and the real villains of the series" or "protecc my baby space wizards who have never done anything wrong and are the perfect unflawed heroes and have absolutely no depth whatsoever uwu"

[maloosh-baloosh64]

lowkey very happy im not the only one who dislike the jedi in star wars holy shit i thought i was losing my mind

[garaviel]

Being a legends mando fan and a legends mando critic at the same time feels like holding my hand in the garbage disposal for funsies

[underwaterspiderbird]

there’s no such thing as “light” or “dark” sides of the force, there never was. its all just different expressions & experiences of the same energy field. “falling to the dark side” is but a religious scare tactic akin to “you’re good and are going to heaven if you believe what we believe but if you don’t you’re gonna burn in hell for all eternity”, no amount of palpatine’s generation of fuckery, the psychos within the sith that could also be found within any group of ppl, or jedi worship will ever convince me otherwise.

suck it bitches

[the-far-bright-center]

In discussions of TCW-Anakin vs. film-Anakin, I understand why some people see them as being incompatible or entirely different portrayals. But whatever problems I personally have with TCW are more to do with certain OOC dialogue lines that I don't agree with, or the overly-contrived situations that TCW tends to force him into just so an episode or scene can function as a 'meta-commentary' on his character or storyline. Believe me, I have issues with specific aspects of TCW's writing for Anakin, but the fact he's more outwardly 'suave' or 'dashing' than some people expected is not one of them. If anything, I see the 'Skyguy' persona as perfectly in keeping with Anakin as portrayed at the beginning of RotS, and I would argue that a great deal of the TCW characterisation is pulled directly from those Battle of Coruscant scenes. TCW Anakin is also heavily inspired by Jake Lloyd's Little Ani in TPM, which, lest anyone forget, counts as FILM-Anakin. Seriously, do people not recall how much swagger and self-confidence little Ani has at the beginning of TPM? (🎵Do you see him hitting on the queen, though he’s just nine and she’s fourteen.’ 🎶 😅) He's a hotshot little ace podracing pilot and he knows it! And in AotC, the only reasons Anakin comes across as more 'awkward' at the beginning is that he's nervous about seeing Padme again after so long. Once he knows for sure she reciprocates his feelings at the battle of Geonosis, the suave, confident Anakin is back! And thus by the time of the Clone Wars, it makes sense that after being a general in the war in charge of many men, he'd have to have a certain level of outward charisma no matter how much inner doubt or turmoil he might be feeling. So, in my opinion, the actual baseline 'persona' for both versions of the character isn't as different as some seem to think. I'm tired of the idea that film-Anakin ISN’T supposed to be seen as ‘cool’ in-universe, just as much as I’m tired of the idea that TCW-Anakin ISN’T supposed to be viewed as a figure of pathos by the audience, either.

Imo, they’re both takes on the same character coming from different angles, set at different stages in his life, and portrayed through different mediums — an animated series heavy on self-aware, darkly ironic humour in a more contemporary style intended to entertain and increase enjoyment of the Prequels-era and its characters. vs. a more serious Greek tragedy with Shakespearean overtones made with old-Hollywood-style sensibilities as part of a mythic six-film saga.

While there are plenty of things that TCW gets wrong about Anakin (see my 'TCW discourse' tag for more on that), dismissing him because he is ‘too macho’ seems to miss the mark a bit. Just because TCW Ani doesn’t shed literal tears on-screen doesn’t mean he’s not emotional or emotionally vulnerable. As far as I remember, there's even a scene where Obi-Wan and Anakin discuss the fact that Anakin has trouble keeping his emotions hidden, especially when it comes to his feelings for his loved ones, which is the opposite of the stereotypical stoic, self-reliant 'macho' ideal. And the amount of times we're constantly bashed over the head with dramatic irony about his fate as Vader in that series surely drives home the point that his trajectory is a decidedly tragic one. (The way he cries out in agony in the Mortis arc, 'I will do such terrible things!' gets to me, every time.) Despite his powers and prowess, TCW Anakin is even shown as being physically vulnerable at times, as well — see the Jedi Crash storyline which he spends mostly knocked-out unconscious, the nod to his mechanical arm as a liability in the Zillo Beast and Citadel arcs, and the scene of him futilely struggling like a wild beast before being captured with ropes in the Zyggerian arc, or the fact he gets captured and tortured by Dooku in 'Shadow Warrior'. I see endless jokes about TCW Ani getting electrocuted every other episode, but then fandom uses this to fuel the dismissive view of him as just some dumb himbo instead of understanding that this, too, is supposed to add to the character's pathos.

Likewise, fandom claims that Prequels-Anakin is 'uncool' and 'cries all the time', which is simply not true. As noted above, film-Anakin banters, jokes, laughs, makes daring jumps out of speeders, does bold piloting moves, is in fact an imposing duellist, and so on. Sure, his character is not supposed to be seen as aspirational (obviously!) and the most memorable and dramatic moments of the latter two Prequels films feature him in the midst of extremely intense emotions. But the oft-repeated view of him as 'uncool' completely ignores the fact that by the time that RotS starts, film-Anakin is supposed to be a well-known and widely-admired charismatic general, aka the Hero With No Fear, who is viewed as almost singlehandedly saving the Republic. The audience may be privy to Anakin's inner struggles with his fear of loss, but in-story he is supposed to be seen as THE golden boy of the Jedi Order and the Republic. The RotS novelization frequently mentions that Anakin has 'dash', 'boldness', and a 'presence' 'like the Holo-Net hero that he is'. It literally says he's the best at what he does and he KNOWS it. He's not just supposed to be an awkward idiot in the way some people seem to perceive him solely based on certain scenes in AotC. Rather, he's supposed to be shown as falling from a 'great height'. By the time of RotS, film Anakin has just as much swagger and self-confidence in his role as General Skywalker as he does in TCW. Just because that side of him is not the main focus of the film doesn't mean it's not supposed to be there.

[mlichaelm]

just thinking about how any Sith-turned-Jedi character arc absolutely needs to include the dialogue around how hard it would be to change your mental patterns. the Sith channel their rage, loneliness, insecurity, bitterness, etc. to gain power. the Jedi tap into mindfulness, kindness, confidence, and love to use their abilities. a Sith becoming a Jedi is not just about a change of heart. you'd need to change your entire way of thinking. if a Sith is practicing Jedi meditation, for a while they're gonna be super uncomfy, because serenity is the opposite of rage, and sitting in silent mindfulness is not the turbulent mind-chaos that the Dark Side draws from. the Sith to Jedi methodology pipeline isn't so much a spectrum of extremes as it is two parallel roads of learned behavior and thought patterns. that shit doesn't happen overnight; ask any therapist. i wanna see your Sith of choice struggle and fight to relearn and unlearn. i want to see them use their ego turn into true confidence they can draw from. i wanna see them learn to be vulnerable, or fidgeting during long silences. it would be so cool to have real play-by-play redemption arcs