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magicpotatothoughts · 2 years ago

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I NEVER REALLY UNDERSTOOD LUO BINGHE UNTIL NOW

Holy shit I was so swayed by SQQ’s POV that I honestly never truly understood LBH’s intentions until I read this line In Ch 2 (SVSSS Seven Seas)/Ch 13 at the demonic evasion arc:

When a person is affected with Without a Cure, starting from their wound, their spiritual flow becomes disconnected. This schism slowly spreads to their entire body. In the end, not only does their spiritual qi coagulate and stagnate, so does their blood."

So then when in Ch 6 (SVSSS SS)/Ch 34, LBH fed SQQ his blood and subsequently used his blood to seemingly "torment" SQQ during the water prison arc, all of this got me thinking....

What if everything LBH did with his demonic blood this entire time was to save SQQ from Without a Cure?

Like yes, he probably did have other intentions such as tracking him, making SQQ horrified at the fact that he has demon blood inside him when he hated demons so much but I honestly think the main reason LBH forced SQQ to drink his blood, and I would even go further as to say that his main motivation when he trained under Meng Mo, was not to become the “strongest” in the general sense but to heal SQQ. Hear me out. The first thought white lotus LBH has when SQQ got poisoned in Ch2/13 was

the demons had harmed his teacher to the point that he might be crippled—he might even lose his life. And all because of him.

LBH probably was a direct witness to how a whole team of Cang Qiong mountain peak lords needed to revolve around SQQ, with Mu Qingfang constantly providing prescriptions and LQG clearing his meridians and probably YQY hovering around SQQ dying with worries, to maintain his health post the SHL -demon evasion, he must have felt absolutely terrible about it! And that guilt literally haunted our bing-pup like he never once stopped thinking about it; no wonder he offered himself to take care of everything including the nutrition of SQQ's food, snaccs, water, small-big errands, and even wanted to pick that "Snow something Lotus" flower for Shizun! Without a Cure affecting SQQ was on LBH's mind ever since he was 15 and for all 3 years he was in the Endless Abyss.

This is absolutely evident when black lotus LBH returned and started to chase SQQ, SQQ's inner monologue was cursing how Without a Cure is stagnating his ability to coordinate and run, I am certain that LBH was not blind to just how much SQQ was struggling with that poison in his body. My theory was further confirmed when LBH finally caught up to SQQ:

“While Shen Qingqiu was still in the midst of confusion, Luo Binghe flipped his hand over. “You were infected?” .....“This hand of Shizun’s is plagued with misfortunes.”

Bruh, LBH may be giving the sadistic energy of an abandoned demonic child (thanks SQQ unreliable narrator) but here is clear evidence that the thing he was most worried about is SQQ's blood coagulating and him dying of demonic poison. What this tells me is that Without a Cure seemed to be activated and/or further exacerbated by other demonic poisons. LBH was also clearly still carrying the guilt of SQQ saving him with that hand! Following on immediately, what he did was 1) punch SQQ, then 2) says "An eye for an eye. Since Shizun sowed the seeds, he should reap the bitter fruit himself. Shizun should personally make up for himself" and 3) straight up fed SQQ his demonic blood.

White Lotus LBH never died. Both actions are for the benefit of SQQ, 1) I think he did this to get SQQ to cough up coagulated blood after SQQ was poisoned by that Jin Lan City sower and 3) LBH's quick return from Endless Abyss was so that he can feed Shizun his heavenly-blood to help cure him. I have reason to believe that LBH's demonic blood is the CURE to WITHOUT A CURE. Why else pay such specific attention to SQQ's hand out of literally any other body-part after a 3 year reunion?

But what I find most fascinating is 2) LBH’s words are nearly always laced with double meaning. “An eye for an eye” here isn’t necessarily just him blaming SQQ for kicking him and unlocking his demonic heritage but he wants to repay SQQ for taking on Without a Cure back then by giving him his demonic blood as a cure now. Another interpretation is that LBH deflected feeling the guilt of indirectly harming SQQ by verbally jabbing him. He tried to make SQQ feel guilty about tossing him into the Endless Abyss when he himself couldn't bare to think that his Shizun got hurt again on the same hand that saved him all those years ago. SQQ of course is an unreliable narrator and tricks us into thinking that LBH's actions matched his words when if we look closer, they're LITERALLY THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

Right after the reunion, SQQ "didn’t know how he made it back to the Jin Zi Weapons Shop," which has me believing that LBH must have been doing something to surpress SQQ's Without a Cure's effects with his demonic blood.

During the Water Prison arc, LBH seems like he is tormenting SQQ by demonic blood manipulation but if we really read carefully:

…strange sensation of something crawling inside his blood vessels....Luo Binghe said leisurely, “Spleen, kidneys, heart, lungs.” Though it wasn’t to the point of extraordinary anguish, it was still awful to suffer through.

Doesn't this sound like LBH trying to get the blood in SQQ flowing again to prevent coagulation after SQQ had been in presumably a seated position for a long time jailed in the Water prison? Once again, LBH's intentions behind his actions are the opposite of his words, he may be emotionally hurt by SQQ's silent response to him asking whether Shizun regrets kicking him down the Endless Abyss but his first and foremost concern is SQQ's health. This totally explains LBH's extremely low anger points! SQQ seemingly mistook LBH’s worry as anger! If SQQ asked the System for LBH's worrywart points, it would have been like ~the limit does not exist~. 🤯🤯🤯

Bruh, it’s so telling when Gongyi Xiao went to untie SQQ's immortal binding cables two days later when SQQ noted:

His spiritual energy was unmistakably back in operation and flowing smoothly. When he’d been imprisoned, he had been in the middle of a random Without a Cure flare-up, but after two days of being tied up by the immortal-binding cables, the poison had unexpectedly been suppressed again. Was this following the same principle as fighting fire with fire, or how two negatives make a positive?

No SQQ you oblivious gay, LBH was circulating your coagulating blood for you and suppressing the effects of your poison! We as readers can get so misled by SQQ constantly worrying about how Without a Cure randomly stops his spiritual powers that we forget about the actual main issue, blood stagnation and coagulation, which can absolutely kill him. Also, when SQQ escaped the Water Prison, LBH didn't try to manipulate the blood in SQQ's body because now he didn't need to, he’s done it already. He never wanted to do more than what was necessary for Shizun’s health. LBH tried to convince SQQ to come back when he could have used his powers. SQQ always had agency because LBH loves and respects him too much.

The next time SQQ got poisoned was by that sower who hid amongst the Huang Hua Palace disciples in Hua Yue city right before his self-detonation. He couldn't attack the sower with fire but then complained that it must have been Without a Cure that flared up again. Somehow, silly SQQ kept randomly getting himself poisoned so doesn’t it make sense that LBH keeps track of his Shizun so that his own demonic blood could notify him of any potential future SQQ demonic poisonings?

Bruh, the worrywart White-Lotus LBH never fucking died, SQQ ah SQQ you silly silly man. LBH has always been, even if he says hateful words, worried about you and your health and made it his top priority. What made LBH lose his mind though were

everytime LBH tries to save SQQ, SQQ thinks that he is using his demonic blood/demonic poison to do all these unfathomable things when using demonic poison is literally the last thing LBH would do because he has literal guilt trauma around it.

SQQ keeps calling LQG, GYX and literally anyone else to save him when LBH has been the one doing all the work.

Then we arrive at Xing Mo’s recoil exacerbating LBH’s insecurities.

“Shizun, look at what I’ve become. Am I strong enough? Do you know how I spent those years within the Endless Abyss? For three years underground, at all times and all moments, my mind thought only of Shizun. I wondered why Shizun would do this to me, why he refused to give me even a single chance to explain or plead my case.”

He did so much for Shizun’s health but never got a chance to explain why! And then when SQQ self-detonated, LBH thought:

Didn’t Shizun hate his blood more than anything? Wasn’t he unwilling to even be near him, to associate with him at all? So why, at the last moment, had he so gently helped to contain Luo Binghe’s mind, as tender as he had been in those years long past?

The blood here doesn't just have racist but literal connotations, LBH literally thought that SQQ hated the very demonic blood coursing through his veins, so that's why he kept forcing SQQ to drink it. LBH's every action, with me now looking back at all this evidence, is SO fricking justified. From his POV, isn't it more like SQQ is the constantly sick child throwing a tantrum about not wanting to drink bitter medicine? LBH, After all this effort of forcing himself to go through literal hell, training himself, chasing SQQ, imprisoning SQQ (LBH is giving Lan Wangji energy here) so that his Shizun can stop accidentally poisoning himself, SQQ somehow got put in harms way again but on top of that, died because of him. SQQ died whilst also restoring and reaffirming himself as the Shizun who had once been so good to him. 😭😭😭

All this absolute adds so much more weight as to why LBH was never ever going to let SQQ out of his sight ever again, as a corpse or alive, from that moment onwards.

#Im truly sorry if this was all incredibly obvious information for the rest of the fandom but my pea-sized brain exploded ok #svsss spoilers #svsss #svsss meta #bingqiu #luo binghe #shen qingqiu #shen yuan #scumbag system #scum villian self saving system #ren zha fanpai zijiu xitong #mxtx #mxtx svsss #svsss analysis

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pruneunfair · 3 months ago

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Hi okay- I’m a huge remarried empress fan, but I enjoy it seperate from tne fandom. That being said- you have so many great points.

1) I do believe the story may have changed, because this is supposed to be based off a web novel. Like an actual novel. Often times they will deviate from the novel to change the story. Take Who Made Me a Princess. The artist at the end of it did say they changed the story ending for it. So it’s very plausible.

2. SOUVESHU (look I’m a fan but I can never remember how to spell) DEFINETLY GROOMED RASHTA!! Though I don’t agree with her actions, I have 100% acknowledged and know she is deeply traumatized. And he most likely took advantage of that. He saw her as young and pure, something Navier was not. And he wanted to preserve that. Rashta is clearly traumatized, and her mental health is not healthy. It is easy to take advantage and manipulate sadly because she does not know the warnings. He groomed her and when she was finally trying to be more like someone she thought he wanted, Navier, he lashed out. No one gets she is constantly comparing herself!! She does not know how to love herself!! And that is the most damage. I wish they would pick up on that. I love Navier but she can be so oblivious to that due to her anger and betrayal at Soveshu. I think if Rashta had proper care and been trained,!- did Soveshu could just fucking communicate and not be a groomer, this could all have been avoided. Navier is also at fault for not see this red flag in him??? But she was so angry and maybe jealous and wanting to back stab I think it clouded her judgement. If she slowed down and actually had a conversation- it would be okay.

3) there is so much wasted potential in all the characters!! Is Navier is getting this magical stuff sorted why can’t she just acknowledge it and work for something with it? Use it to her advantage. I wanted to see her stand up to Heinrey for taking her mages. I wanted to see her stand up to Soveshu. I want to see her just fight for herself. But she doesn’t say much. She’s so strategic with everything and it’s like it wasted her potential. Why can’t she just speak out?? It does feel very much like she turned into a Mary Sue. I want to see more of her flaws. Like one we all think is pretty when is a flaw is that she has no want to speak out and is held back and refined! I think they are trying hard to point onto her upbringing and that she’s “higher” than everyone else. When like- yes she’s an empress. But there is so much more then that we should be able to read about!! We need more scenes of her having friends for peat sakes that isn’t gossiping or talking about men and other things. Where did the potential go??

I really wanna see how it ends and hope it turns into a better direction. I also need to read the book too.

TLDR: you make so many good points and I wanted to expand on it as a fan of the series who does acknowledge all these points.

1: I did read the novel out of curiosity since everyone was saying it was better then the manhwa. The manhwa was pretty loyal to the novel and while it was still really iffy with protagonist centered morality I felt it could get away with it more since it was in first person therfore it's possible Navier could be an unreliable narrator. Another difference I noticed is that while the manhwa felt actively malicious against Rashta and making jokes about her trauma when she cries or looks for attention, the novel is more complex about it and it feels more sympathetic then something to laugh at. The whole slavery being ignored and characters getting away with shitty behavior unfortunately still lasted but given how it was more complex with it's characters I think it was an unfortunate result of the author getting a little too carried away with the readers desires to see more fluff. Gotta say I don't hold as much animosity toward the webnovel but it's still not my favorite.

2: I'm really happy to see that I'm not the only one who thinks Rashta got groomed. Even if she's not a child, she's still mentally stunted and grooming can occur at any age since it is the desire to take someone who is easily influenced and molding them into whatever you desire. Honestly though I think it makes sense that Navier wouldn't immediately see any red flags from Sovieshu given that their childhood together was happy and geninune, it's common for victims in abusive relationships to not see who their abuser really is at first which really made Navier escaping even more satisfying.

3: on one hand Navier not being able to speak up makes sense since what is she really gonna do if the Emperor brings in a concubine without breaking royal protocol, on the other hand it is so OOC of her in later seasons when she is described as someone with witty comebacks and is no damsel in distress yet in season 2 and 3 she does absolutely nothing since Heinrey and her other friends do it all for her. They think this makes her really charismatic but that only ever works for villian characters who are mysterious and too classy to do the dirty work, when the protagonist does this over and over it gets boring and you wonder if she's really supposed to be the protagonist at all.

#the remarried empress #webtoon #empress navier #rashta #manhwa #heinrey alles lazlo #sovieshu

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shinakazami1 · 2 years ago

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TSP FERNATOR THEORY – THE ROLE OF NATURE IN THE STANLEY PARABLE

Oh gosh, I took this so seriously but hope someone will enjoy my rambling ;w; Just will say it here - this essay is game interpretation, it doesn't talk about Fernator AU (only mentions it).

Contents

0. What is Fernator AU?

“Stanley, this fern will be very important later in the story.” (Confusion, Bucket Destroyer & Figleys Endings – Fern)

“It's all out of my control now.” (Skip Button)

“Yes, I have something very exciting to show you!“ (TSP 2 Expo)

“And Stanley was happy.” (Outdoors - Freedom Ending and Memory Zone)

“The office could use a bit of decoration.” (Other plants in-game, Games Ending, Epilogue)

Conclusions

(Click 'Read More')

0. WHAT IS FERNATOR AU

Fernator AKA Fernnarrator AKA Fernie is my TSP AU where the Narrator takes the form of the Fern and gets moved into the Bucket.

His form can change into any plant, either through a conscious decision or subconsciously, based on his emotions. While some of his flowers blooming can fit the conventional flower language, he creates his own based on his own bias for the plants.

The AU isn’t purely cosmetic – depending on his and Stanley’s relationship before the discovery of Narrator being the Fern, it splits into 3 main pathways.

Each one of them has different ending alternatives and on top of that, the AU has a linear story.

This post will NOT be focusing on Fernator AU - instead, it will talk about the plants of the Parable and my theories about their meaning. These do influence Fernator AU as a whole but I will leave AU talk for another time if anyone would be interested.

Instead, let’s talk about the two main inspirations for the AU: Fern and The Skip Button.

1. “STANLEY, THIS FERN WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT LATER IN THE STORY.” (Confusion, Bucket Destroyer & Figleys Endings – Fern)

This Fern is one of the few plants in the game and the only one mentioned in dialogue.

Its placement in the Confusion Ending is a set-up for a joke: something gets mentioned, said to have a big importance and then gets forgotten. Maybe that was its whole purpose - a gag about misplaced foreshadowing or there is more to it.

A reverse situation is the Broom Closet – it can represent the “show, not tell” rule in storytelling where an object isn’t mentioned through text but more through actions. Narrator is displeased with that and on the third reset in a row after interacting with it, the Closet gets temporarily boarded.

That changes in the Bucket version– you can come in it as many times as you want and Narrator doesn’t get mad at Stanley (which overall is a theme in post-Skip).

So, these two are a perfect contrast:

Narrator doesn’t even mention the Broom Closet at first. However, it ends up getting new unique lines and gives long-term effects on the story (boarding the door).

The Fern gets mentioned in the story but doesn’t show up later in the ending.

However, the plant does appear in the alternative of Confusion – the Bucket Destroyer Ending.

“We're the ones that matter Stanley! Classic characters from the first game.”

Each of the objects in this picture symbolises a person in Stanley’s life:

the Broom Closet = Player, since in the original version, if you stay longer, Narrator talks about them;

the pencil sharpener= 432 – in lore, madness through never being given a pencil to sharpen;

Stanley’s computer= Boss, due to the orders;

Wife mannequin;

Baby cut-out (might also represent Stanley’s kids);

Adventure Line ™ – it isn’t a person but is said to be conscious;

and the Fern.

(EDIT: Beau in Stanarr server also said that the mugs on the table could symbolise the Employees while the Baby could be The Essence of Divine Art. That could potentially mean that Adventure Line™ could also symbolise curiosity - just like, while TEDA seems to be a conscious being, might just be human creativity. )

We already have the Line ™ from the Confusion Ending. Other objects could have been used for this scene but somehow, it is the Fern that ends up being showcased. It could be just due to it belonging to this pathway but it could be also something else.

“You see, your friends and I are concerned for you, Stanley.”

He could be meaning himself just as the voice – after all, the separation between him and his friends is not that uncommon. He does use the word ‘friend’ positively only in the UD version of the game. He calls Stanley his friend only once and then, proceeds to call the Bucket and Stanley friends a few times, making it obvious the man projects on that object.

Here though, Narrator is against the Bucket - so, why couldn’t he start to project on something else? That way, he could visually show the group of friends with himself.

So you know,,, Fernator real,,, maybe,,,,,,,

(Big thanks to Chris from Crowsx3 Discord for reminding me about this next part)

I was also reminded that Fern makes one more appearance - in the Figley Ending, Confusion Ending room.

You get to this room after a Red-Blue door choice that doesn't matter at all, leading to an open door. It perfectly blends so many parts of the game together - the choice between two pathways, the illusion of the choice and also brings something new - backtracking. In most of the game, we are unable to do so - the doors close behind us and that's it. But, just like in Confusion - Narrator wants to backtrack, to change the pathway, for one last adventure with Stanley.

Maybe that was the importance of the Fern. For it to show up when Narrator wants to do something fresh, something new, WITH Stanley.

"Oh, I want more memories, Stanley! I want to keep going!"

In the end, he wants to retire and move on. If he does and only leaves his recording, if he stays with everything TK has done - that's up to a debate for another time.

But one thing is known - we all remember the Fern, even if it doesn't heavily impact the story. Unless you know - Narrator took the form of it and then-

Ok ok, but this was the nice task – now let’s talk about The Skip Button.

2. “IT'S ALL OUT OF MY CONTROL NOW.” (Skip Button)

I will talk about the Memory Zone later – here, I want to focus solely on the Skip Button room.

The Skip Button plant is the only thing in the Parable that shows actual ageing. Sure, there are some other symbols of time passage - i.e. clocks, and scratches on objects but nothing else shows decay besides this one single plant.

Changes happen in Skips #5 and #6.

In Skip #5, Narrator says it’s been a week or two. I know that people have done the math on how much time passed through each skip takes but we will base it only on the plant alone. While a week is too short for a plant like that to show signs of severe dehydration, 2 weeks is more plausible.

In Skip #6 - when he says he had stopped counting once it was over a year - the plant is dead.

Death is overall a bit of a theme in the Parable – the Countdown, Museum, Apartment and Zending especially have a lot of lines about Stanley’s death, which should cause permanent effects. Instead, the game just resets, not making any deal about it. This plant, however, does not return to its original form.

In Skip #13, concrete falls on it, leaving the plant trapped for the rest of this pathway.

I think the room overall (together with the plants and the clock) symbolises Narrator’s psyche.

The first few Skips are alright for him - sure, the time in-between seems to grow but he still thinks it is a good idea. He starts to panic and begs Stanley not to press the button in Skip #4 and in Skip #5, both the plant changes and the lights dim down. This is when he has been left for those two weeks all for himself and just sounds so tired - and with each skip, another part of his psyche breaks.

The clock stops working and falls around #8 and #9. It’s still long since in #6, Narrator where he says he lost count but he might have just exaggerated it, only losing it in these runs.

After such a long period in solitude, any mind would start to decay - the plant, the pipes letting the water escape through them, the fire alarm going off (since batteries are low), the walls getting destroyed with time… Together with how silent Narrator gets at times, I genuinely believe this whole section is us being in his brain.

But then in Skip #15, (after the sunlight in #14) this happens:

These skips are special because they are a glimpse of hope. Sunbeams, birds chirping, new life in the form of plants showing up – just for it all to disappear next Skip.

While the last time we hear Narrator talk is in #11 (The end is never), this feels like he is trying to talk to Stanley indirectly. The destruction of the ceiling feels like an attempt to break Stanley free, which, unfortunately, was a bit misplaced since we don’t have the jump option (curse you, jump circle for gatekeeping them / silly).

These can mean several things.

Narrator hopes that the situation would soon end, as mentioned in the previous part.

It could also show that he is making new ideas and growing. I think it would be a poetic way of personal growth. It is visible in the Bucket version of the game - lack of Red-Blue doors, Countdown becoming silly birds ending, him calling Stanley his friend through the bucket - he wants to change for the better.

“You are not beyond redemption. You may change, and you may become more, so much more than you were before.”

And what better way to show that than through physical growth?

Even if his mind, in the end, becomes the sandy landscape we all know - he had tried to get better and, in some way, succeeded.

I sometimes wonder if the New New Content & Bucket parts of the game are what Narrator wants to turn the game into during these Skips. How he wants to acknowledge Stanley, show that he cares for him and that he matured.

But, let’s go back a bit. The New New Content happening during these skips in Narrator’s mind are a cute theory but, it’s just that - a theory.

What is real though is the game content, like the plants in the TSP 2 Expo.

3. “YES, I HAVE SOMETHING VERY EXCITING TO SHOW YOU!“ (TSP 2 Expo)

This part alone has 4 new plants that were never seen before in the rest of the office (they later make an appearance again in the Bucket Apartment Ending).

Three of the plants have some resemblance to the one in the Skip button - a long office plant put in a pot, while the smaller ones seem similar to the Fern.

(Small note: these plants are based on real-life ones that are common in offices and are low maintenance but I am too tired to figure out their types. Possibilities from a bud: “the first one in the basket is prob Dieffenbachia Seguine, down in middle is calathea makoyana, low right kentia palm”. )

Interestingly, the whole Expo is red-themed so, to compliment that with the opposite colour - green - could seem like it’s a bolder move. It to be fair isn’t - there are a lot of greys, whites and browns that tie everything together, not letting this become a Christmas-themed event.

Expo gives us a lot of new and fresh Narrator ideas - the Bucket, Figleys, and Infinitive Hole. I think these plants also deserve a mention - they all tie perfectly to the theme of Narrator’s growth.

He wants to be better, to please Stanley and I think, maybe, to fit in more. He could have reused the same plant from the Office but no - he made new ones.

And just like the Broom Closet - they never get acknowledged in the dialogue.

Show, not tell.

4. “AND STANLEY WAS HAPPY.” (Outdoors - Freedom Ending and Memory Zone)

Stanley felt the cold breeze, blablabla, you know the drill by now. Most of us will remember the current Freedom Ending - lots of grass, some trees, blue sky…

But that wasn’t always the case.

The 2011 Mod had a way different ending screen.

The difference is probably due to the limitations of this being a mod but comparing it with the future renditions, it might portray how Narrator had gotten softer throughout the games.

In this one - the outside world is urban. You went out of the building you were mind controlled in into a town of some sort. It doesn’t look too appealing. Trees without any leaves, very short grass - it is SOME freedom but it feels rough. Just like the only other outdoor area in the Games Endings (more about it in the next part).

The newer versions, however, are WAY different.

More saturated colours, some rock roads, trees, and mountains in the background - nature is ALIVE and well. Just like Stanley is, being freed, in Narrator’s eyes.

Because it is Narrator who chose to make this the end screen. It is just visible, time and time again, how much this man adores nature. Sure, he might be scared about the open world (next point, again) but he could have just remade the buildings from the original. But he chose not to - instead, upgrading it into something more beautiful.

This isn’t just an ending for Stanley - it’s an ending for HIM.

I think that’s why Memory Zone is just so similar, in my eyes, to Freedom in this aspect.

“(...) I made something special and tucked it away here where the game’s developers won’t find it.”

Some things do not match - the tree types seem different, the sky is a different colour, and small flowers pop here and there that aren’t in Freedom.

But there is a key element that does match - mountains.

These two areas may be connected - Memory Zone seems to be on a higher standpoint, maybe on a hill rather than a mountain but due to just that, it is possible they are both connected, just in different parts of the world.

Memory Zone is special to Narrator - it is supposed to show his achievements and happiest moments. It would make sense that it was placed in a similar area as Freedom - just hidden so that the other game developers Narrator mentions, would not influence it.

The Maintenance area of the Memory Zone, however, is everything Narrator tried to repress. That is why he might not remember the reviews in there - it’s all hidden in his subconsciousness.

“I don’t recall this part of the Memory Zone before.”

Narrator had been probably working on the Memory Zone way before he shared it with Stanley. It was his safe space, or so he thought. The memory in the name seems to be the most important clue - it’s not like some remembering zone, history zone or something - it’s memory.

And memories like to get hazy.

As I mentioned - to me, Skip Button's room is a visual representation of Narrator’s mind, at least a part of it. And since it’s a part of this area - I headcanon the whole Memory Zone to be that.

Contrasting with the wild flora of the main Memory Zone, the maintenance seems very run down and secluded. The colours in Memory Zone are already desaturated in comparison to the rest of the game but this part looks dirty thanks to the focus on browns and greys. While some of the lovely nature is in there - birds, a big water pool, the trees are dead.

These dead trees, just like the Skip Button tree or 2011 Freedom Ending ones might be a pattern for Narrator when he is not in his best shape.

Once again, the game shows just how important the nature aspect seems in the key part of the story. Narrator made the conscious decision to change the Freedom Ending and probably also had some saying about the Memory Zone, until the parts he wanted to repress that got run down.

Narrator keeps on repressing things a lot throughout the game. He shows denial and shifts the blame - on Stanley, the Player or the reviewers. At the end of it all - during Skip - he finally realises his flaws and mistakes.

But that realisation happened way too late.

Maybe that’s why he later tries to separate himself from that Memory Zone, putting it in the Executive Toilet.

Or maybe, it’s some not-so-hidden poop joke. But that’s not as important.

So let’s get to the rest of the game.

5. “THE OFFICE COULD USE A BIT OF DECORATION.” (Other plants in-game, Games Ending, Epilogue)

Besides Fern, there is another plant that keeps on being with Stanley a lot. It is there, never in the foreground but it’s always there. It’s like a hidden companion - maybe, as a symbol for not so hidden one.

This plant shows up in most of the Left Door pathway to the Boss’s Office - 5 times in different rooms:

desks 431- 436,

desks 418-424,

left-right door choice,

Meetings Room,

and the entrance to Boss's office.

It also shows up in rooms we see around the pathway:

room with 456, 457 doors,

413 room,

Executive Bathroom

and two in the room with Elevator Music.

The plant shows up 4 times in Confusion Ending (including the earlier mentioned 456, 457 area)- and thinking how the Fern is also there makes me just feral. Narrator joins Stanley on his little adventure through the unknown territory - so he inserts himself in the story.

In the Right door pathway, we get through the first 3 from the Left door and 2 more - the Loungue and the Games Ending.

The Games Ending has very different alternations between the game version but one thing is stable - nature in the open words games.

“I wonder what he found.”

In 2011, once again, nature is quite dead and dried up. RIP all the plants in this version of the game.

The next alternations, however, take a different approach and make the plants more alive.

The 2013 version uses Minecraft as it outdoor area.

Narrator doesn’t focus at all on the nature aspect - more on the crafting one which is fair, he is a storyteller and a game designer.

In Ultra Deluxe, there are two areas - Rocket League and Firewatch.

Rocket League won’t get that much attention from me - it’s just a typical grass for sports fields. The Firewatch, however, is a direct parallel with Minecraft. And it’s due to it being open-world.

This brings me to the last issue with Narrator and nature - he likes it quite a lot, but it HAS to be limited for Stanley.

Freedom makes you stuck in a cutscene, you can only go to mines in Minecraft due to no jumps, Memozy Zone has barriers, so Stanley has one path to follow, and most plants are potted- expect, for one thing.

And it’s the plants that show up in Skip #15.

I think it’s no coincidence that in the Bucket runs, the Red-Blue choice is off-limits. I think it’s due Narrator not wanting to go through things that hurt. But they hurt not only him - they also hurt Stanley.

We could focus on the fact that each of the Games runs ends up with Stanley being trapped in the 2011 version. But I think that lack of freedom to explore beyond the main area - the set path, the game, is what got Narrator more, in the end. Maybe he is scared about full freedom and lack of full control over the story and Stanley.

And maybe that’s why the Epilogue seems to be a never-ending desert. It’s Narrator’s last attempt to give Stanley the true freedom they both needed.

“An epilogue would be fun. Wouldn’t it, Stanley?”

(Shoutout to a Rammy who gave me the idea to talk about this screenshot.)

The desert, for me, fits the Sandman story (no, not just the song though now it is playing in my head so I hope it will play in yours, too). It shows up at the end of the Skip run and just like the room itself, I think it keeps on symbolising Narrator’s mind.

Once a mindflow, where his thoughts could drift anywhere they pleased became quite stagnant. He fell in hibernation or the mind was just no longer there.

The Sandman brought him the sand and let him rest, cope with the near eternity of solitude.

And to think, during it, Stanley uses wood he finds in this place to bring some light. Lighting up the neurons that still are active.

And this one last time a plant in any shape is present - it is there to serve Stanley.

Narrator, I see you. You probably never left because you are unable to but, you still care about Stanley.

And we care about you.

6. CONCLUSIONS

(painting in the background: The fairy grotto, 1867)

I could mention EVERY single plant in-game: all the nature paintings, plants in Demo and all the Infinitive Hole nature backgrounds, apple in Pink room, try to get through every plant and try to find its significance but at the end of the day- this whole thing is over 3k words IOSFAIHOSAFHIOFSA

I know this post didn’t talk much about Fernator. I could talk about how Narrator’s need for control and being in a confined space makes him want to be in a Bucket that he also projects a lot onto. How plants often symbolise his psyche, show up in important parts of the office and as the only other visible living being besides Other Stanley and Mariella, maybe, just maybe, Narrator, who seems to not be human, might have decided to take such form, for comfort and safety. But I will leave that for another time.

So if you reached this point, I hope you realise that Fernator AU is a superior AU to the point it’s canon /silly/nsrs /j (,,,, or is it / silly)

If you are reading this - thank you so much for reading this ramble or just skimming through it. I do appreciate you.

Thank you and-

“I'm out... I'm out... I'm done! It's over! Thank you for playing! Your input was extremely valuable.”

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lipstickchainsaw · 1 year ago

Note

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF NIGHTMARE AND SPECTRE AND

sorry for the spam hrhdhsh but I really enjoy these for reasons I just mentioned🫶🫶

No worries! I did ask for questions!

I think the Spectre's a ton of fun as a route, in part because of the contrast between the Spectre as the Princess and the Cold as the Voice that joins you. For all that you get to the Spectre because you ran her through with the Blade, she doesn't seem to hold a lot of resentment over you for that fact. She ends up being a cute ghost girl, with just enough of a scary side to remind you this isn't the Damsel, and she won't be a total pushover.

And then there's the Cold, who is so very certain you've killed the Princess, and when she shows up again, this time as a ghost, just goes 'oh? Well, we may as well kill her again, then'. He is, after all, the Cold, emotionally, whereas the Spectre is only physically cold. She's emotionally quite warm.

As for why she's like that, despite you having killed her...

(I'll get to the Nightmare in a reblog)

The Princess is very much shaped by your perception of her (hell, it's why she's a princess in the first place), and how you approach her changes her, gives her depth, nuances, neuroses and traumas. If you just go in there, ignore whatever she's saying, and simply stab her, she gets very little to work with, to build off of, except the Cold's absolute assurance that she is, in fact, dead.

So she ends up as a more... generic ghost, conceptually. Compare her to the Greys, both of whom have a lot more going on, conceptually.

Instead, she develops that depth over her own chapter, in how you respond to her now being a ghost. If you start a little nervous but not actively hostile, she will remain friendly to you, but if you ignore her words and try to slash at her again, she will, at best, reach a utilitarian agreement with you.

And her lack of hostility does play into the Cold some, I think. Because you barely interacted in Chapter 1, she's more... detached from you. You killed her, yes, but there was nothing personal about it, no relationship established, so she gets to essentially start from zero here, and she's a ghost, so she's not that worried about what you'll do to her.

Even when she calls you 'killer' at the start, it's more... chiding than actively angry? She doesn't want revenge, she just thinks you're a bit of a jerk but is willing to put it behind her. Hell, if you're friendly towards her here, and just help her out, her tone outright shifts to playful when she calls you that, which is really cute.

This also makes her one of the few Princesses that directly talks to the Narrator (the others being the Wild, and arguably the Tower, who just takes him over), and reveals quite a bit of his true nature in so doing.

She's also notable as being the only Princess to not be uncomfortable with the cold before the Shifting Mound claims her, because being cold is just... kind of her thing. It feels like home. She's the only Princess to have already made peace with her death (since it was the one thing established about her) and ready to move on, even if she didn't realise she was part of a greater whole.

So the route where you help her out, and resolve matters in Chapter 2 is really cute, a bit of a redemption for yourself, and maybe shows the Cold that being emotionally detached doesn't mean you have to be a jerk about it.

But, as mentioned, she's not harmless. If you make it clear you can't be reasoned with (or try to run away), she will fuck you up. She doesn't hide this dangerous side to her, but if you continue to ignore her warnings, and keep crossing lines, she'll just rip your goddamn heart out. If you don't actually help her escape by giving her a way out, she'll just take it next time.

And I think this tension gives her a layer of agency that honestly makes her less unnerving than, say, the Damsel. She's neat.

#slay the princess #slay the princess spoilers #stp the spectre #stp the nightmare #ask me

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cannibalovers · 11 months ago

Text

since some ppl did say yes, buckle up for a VERY long analysis because this song and "want" + a few others are some of my ultimate hannibal songs.

Hannibal song of the day: song no.1

a bit about the song:

"Missing Piece" (released in 1997) is a song by Recoil, a music project by Alan Wilder (former member of Depeche Mode, a group which I absolutely love and have a lot of their songs in my playlist). The song was written and sang as a duo by Alan Wilder and Siobhan Lynch. It's a moody and dark electronica song with jazzy elements and even a violin solo In short, the song is about self discovery and enlightement that a relationship has brought to the narrator, who has felt alone and misunderstood their whole life until they met the person who was their "missing piece". It explores the complex emotions and realisations that arose from the relationship(whether the relationship ended or not isn't really implied, at least in my eyes, although for my view on the song when it comes to hannibal, i think it might have).

now, i think from that it's already clear enough that I'm thinking about hannigram for this. I mean c'mon, a narrator that felt misunderstood and has been afraid to fully opening up to anybody, because of it's risks, even though they have so much love to give. That's literally Hannibal.

Although I feel like the narrator can also be Will but with how open and desparate the narrator seems, I keep thinking of Hannibal.

------------------------------

Verse 1

"I wanna write myself

On the walls of your heart

Because the knot that holds us

Altogether throws us all apart

I'm gonna stop myself

Before I say something true

Because the answers

That roll from my tongue

Are nothing to do with you"

Hannibal loves to impact people (literally manipulates them), even though it doesn't last (usually).

Through the show, we can see just how many people he actually changed, changing their mindsets, convincing them to murder etc. that's more leaving an impact on their brain, but with Will, he's different. He indeed does change his mindset but he also really tries to get a place in Will's heart and get his attention because, as he confessed to Bedelia, Will intrigues him. I think the lyrics of the narrator wanting to write themselves on the walls of somebody's heart and leave an impact on them is just so incredibly hannibal.

But again, those people don't last usually, they usually end up dead, be it as Hannibal's dinner or something else. He knows this danger, and he knows this complicated knot of manipulation and lies he tied himself and Will with will most likely break off at some point, which he slowly comes to realise he doesn't want it to happen. (and then fucking mizumono happens)

In the song, the narrator hides the truth, most likely because of the fear of rejection, fearing the person doesn't feel the same, or because of the fear of losing the person. In season 2, his decision was to continue lying, not confessing the truth of his plan to Will, in my eyes to try and secure him in his hold, get his trust and love, see if Will would truly understand him and accept him for who he is - so, he stops himself from telling Will the truth, pretending his plan, his answers have nothing to do with his love for Will, but instead pretend that his plan is to destroy Will's life, leaving out the part where he's hoping Will would want to try and rebuild his life with Hannibal.

------------------------------

Chorus

"(And) I hold a piece up to the light

Hold a piece up to my eye

Found a missing piece from my set

Found a person I'd not met (x2)

Sometimes is a lonely place (x5)"

self explanatory. There's so little to say, because the lyrics describe it so well, yet at the same time there's SO much to say.

The chorus is sung as a duo, both the narrator and the narrator's person. They both feel like they're the same and are each other's missing pieces, harmonising together.

I truly thing the best way to describe hannigram's relationship is by saying that they're each other's missing pieces. Hannibal seems to be a well-organized set of his pieces that make up him as well as a set of other people that he manipulated kind of as a list (maybe some as trophies). He's so composed, he's sure of his values and knows who he is, he's fully in control yet still felt incomplete, so he has spent his whole life finding that last missing piece (perhaps another meaning for missing, maybe he already had one and lost it, the missing piece being his sister........ ouch, although can't give much thought to this cuz haven't seen season 3 yet), a person who will be just like him and will complete him, not judge him, see him, accept him and be with him. That piece is Will.

He holds him up to the light, analyses him, studies him, gets to know him to determine if he is indeed the missing piece (in the show, he does his usual tactic of manipulating with the intention of making him his dinner but the more he got to know him, the more intrigued he got and saw a possibility of Will understanding him), and he indeed is his missing piece.

The fact that the narrator's person only sings during the chorus makes me think of how Hannibal made Will realise that he is Hannibal's missing piece and that although Will didn't really want it to be true, Hannibal helped him realise that Hannibal is Will's missing piece too - That's why I see the narrator as Hannibal and narrator's person as Will. He seems to be the second to realise this and accept this.

"Sometimes is a lonely place" is straightforward, I think. The two literally admit and show that they feel alone without each other, they have never felt so true to themselves as they feel when they're together, a room or a moment in life without one another is empty, a period without each other is a period they feel the most lonely.

------------------------------

Verse 2

"So tow me over to the light

The sound, the sound it is in sight

Found my heart was contained within a cell

Found my heart in this tuck-a-way-me world"

ngl, verse 2 and chorus are quite similar in meaning to me. Maybe it's more so Hannibal letting Will study him as well and get to know him, letting Will tow him over to the light (let Will inside his mind). I feel like the lyrics about the narrator's heart being contained in a cell is maybe Hannibal becoming more and more aware of how restrictive he was with his emotions, how his human suit made him lock away his real heart and after many tries of trying to find the right key, Will finally found it and unlocked Hannibal's true self to the world. Overall, I feel like Hannibal feels the world is very restrictive for his type of people but he has found a way to live with it and accept it, although the desire to find a person like him never disappeared

------------------------------

Coda

"Sometimes I held the missing piece

I held the missing piece

I held sometimes

I held the missing piece

I held..."

the end seems very lamentful to me. Sorry but it reminds me of mizumono

the end is overall so beautiful, I love how dark, slow yet jazzy and classy the song sounds, the coda just sounds like absolute heaven to me and its instrumental reminds me of the show overall so so much

but anyhow, the lyrics getting repeated, the moody, whiny tone the narrator sings it in combined with the reverb and minor key just immediately makes me think that the narrator lost their missing piece, reminiscing the times they had with them. Because of that, I immediately think of Mizumono and how distraught Hannibal was when he realised that Will betrayed him, letting Will see him just for Will to try and get him killed, even though he had a plan of giving back Will everything that he lost and everything that was precious to him. The whole song sounding quite blurry makes me think of how much emptiness Hannibal probably felt after the events in mizumono, how much of a blur everything was to him.

in conclusion, the song is literally so hannibal lecter coded to me

------------------------------

additional notes: i already mentioned this song on my previous blog actually, together with "want" cuz together theyre AMAZING, i see want more from Wills perspective, i'll do that one tmr

could be lacking a little bit cuz i havent seen season 3 yet, maybe after it ill have some more thoughts but wont add them, i leave it at that

------------------------------

my playlist

to anybody who read this, thank you and hope you enjoyed my rant<3

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beguilingcorpse · 2 years ago

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Does Harrow even love Gideon? Harrow probably loves Alecto more than Gideon

anon i love you. i love you for asking me this. i love you for opening this can of worms. i'm giving you a little kiss rn

DOES harrow love gideon? does she feel the same way that gideon feels about her? this is the central question driving the entire series, and tazmuir has done a fantastic job of using narration and point of view to conceal it. we get gideon's third person limited perspective in gtn; we get gideon's pov AGAIN in htn, even though we don't find out until the last act; and we see the world as nona in ntn, and nona (respectfully) doesn't know jack shit. the final scene in ntn is the first time that gideon and harrow have SEEN EACH OTHER since the end of the first book, and they don't interact - and we don't really know what either of them are feeling in that moment, since the narration is mostly from alecto's point of view. (we do know that gideon is still tits over ass for harrow tho. "get in line, thou big slut" can really only mean one thing)

we, as the audience, can piece together that yes, harrow loves gideon. or at least, that harrow loves gideon ENOUGH to lobotomize herself rather than remember that she's in a world where she had gideon and now doesn't. harrow loves gideon enough to stop the lyctoral process and completely fuck up her own body because the grief of losing gideon is too much for her to handle. harrow loves gideon enough that she's undone without her.

but is she in love with gideon? listen. i'm biased. i absolutely think that she is. the issue - and the reason that this question is so hard to answer - is that she won't fuckin admit it to anyone, least of all herself. harrow has convinced herself that she's in love with The Body, not even knowing alecto's whole insane deal, and has sworn herself completely to alecto. can harrow be in love with an earth popsicle? does she know alecto? does that even matter to her? does 'one flesh, one end' override a nun's vow to the hot corpse of the holy spirit? we don't know.

alecto the ninth is going to answer a LOT of questions. i assume based on the trends of the other books that it'll be from alecto's point of view, which means that we still won't see things from harrow's perspective - which is really, really interesting. it means that for us as the audience to know what the fuck is going on with her mental and emotional state, harrow needs to (1) admit it to herself, (2) tell another character directly, or (3) telegraph it indirectly with her words and actions - which she's rarely done in the history of the series. whether or not harrow loves alecto more than she loves gideon will be entirely dependent on her interactions with both of them in atn.

tl;dr: does harrow even love gideon? yes, i firmly believe that she does. it's just that she doesn't know it yet.

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beanyboobee · 11 months ago

Text

Random theories of mine:

1. What were the Archvisites?

2. Teachers out here scheming

3. How does vanitas die?

What were Archvisties to vampire society? I keep wondering that because I find it so curious how so very few people actually know what they are, and the only ones we have seen who know right away are count orlock, chloe and Ruthvan, all high ups in vampire society, while those of lower status, aka count Orlocks servents, Jean Jacqes, didn't know until they were told.

Surely if Archivistes were well known their massacre would still be remembered as it wasn't that long ago [if we go by Noes age] but yet the servent of Orlocks who does know what an Archvisite is, refers to the massacre as happening 'long ago'

Concidering how long some vampires live, isnt it odd for them to refer to something not even 20 years old as a long time ago ?

We also know Archvisites are differant to regular vampires, as Dominique claimed vanitas wanted to use noe for his unique abilities, (abilities not just ability to see memories), how it (presumably) took longer for chloes potion to kick on for him

Not to mwntion- SPOILER FOR THE LATEST CHAPTER CHAPTER 61

how Noe is already starting to recall what Ruthvan did to him, which shouldn't be possiable if Ruthvan is more powerful than him.

Moving into another theory that I mentioned before but I keep finding more and more proof for,

I think EVERYTHING since the beginning has been planned by teacher, everything, not just the small things. From him just os happening to find noe at an auction, as far as we know the teacher didn't have any others in the mansion so he just so happend to go to a human auction and find the last remaining archvisite? As we know noe added that the vampires who kidnapped hom mistook him for a human?

It was almost as if Noe was the main peice of the story the teacher wanted to see play out. Not to mention in Domiques first appearance she says this-

Who told her where Noe was? Realistically how would anyone know that Noe was with count Orlock? Unless count orlock told someone and it got passed on? But the only person who knew noe was in Paris was the teacher.

The teacher sending a letter to count orlock with Noes full name and asking him to help Noe with anything he needs is also weirdly suspicious because there was no need to give out Noes full name unless he knew the effect it would have.

I am also of the mindset that everything happening is a timeloop, of this situation has played out time and time again, from the conversation lady Archvisitie and the teacher have in Chapter [ 58]

That his excitement at Noe coming with him, "Yes I am having fun because you came with me" implying Noe had a choice not to come, and as we know Teacher loves throwing around the word "choice" an awful lott.

If it is true abiut this being a time loop or some sort of time shenanigans, Noe could be the slightly differant thing Lady Archvisite and Teacher discussed in chapter [58 and 59 ]

One small "choice" can change the entire direction of a story after all.

Also final theory, Vanitas Dies by Noe not grabbing his hand when crossing the portal, I'm still of the mind the story will end with Atlus crumbling. And Vanitas will be trapped in the middle world because Noe didn't grab his hand. Why? Simple, I like to think this scene is foreshadowing

Noe keeps moving between saying- he killed vanitas by his own hand, and, he regrets not grabbing his hand that day, the death of vanitas won't be this big and major gruesome thing like we are led to beleive but rather him being stuck in a void, as it would also explain vanitas saying this during his 'death'

As we know Noe is an unreliable narrator, he blames himself for alott of things that happend, and tends to overexagerate how much of a part he played in the tragedy, as we can see during the whole Louis situation, he holds alott of regret and blames himself for it to the point even years later Domi has to remind him it wasn't his fault, so by him saying he killed Vanitas by his own two hands, it could be something as simple as him- being unable to catch vanitas in time. Or hesitating before holding onto him because Vanitas might of been the to let go.

There was enough of time between Vanitas dying and Noe somehow being the cause of it, for Vanitas to give him the reassurance that he won't die that he just won't be apart of this world,

It could of been said in a similar fashion to how Jean jauqes forced Noe to drink his blood so someone would remember hom and chloe, because if we think about it in that sense. He could of meant he won't die because Now will always be around to remember.

Making Vanitas a figure similar to the shapeless one or lady archvisite; who mainly seem to operate and live in the between world.

#myart #vanitas no carte #the case study of vanitas #vanitas #vanitas anime #vanitas no carte manga #vanoe #vanoe fanfic #memoir of vanitas #les memoires de vanitas

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imsickofpasswords · 1 year ago

Text

A theory of the Ineffable Plan.

By elsamirrre5322 on YouTube

Realistic_Street1312 on Reddit

ParkSeo-Jun on Fandom

Imsickofpasswords on Tumblr

(Yes, all me!)

Book of Genesis 1–11: And God said: 'Let us make man in our image"

From Neil Gaiman’s MAster Class: When you tell a story, it is crucial that you completely believe in what you're writing

Hi, Good Omens's fellow victims! Like so many, I have been trying to cope with Eternity (I mean the dreadful period between season 2 and, either season 3, or my personal Armageddon.) That rotting brain of mine came up with a theory regarding the message that Good Omens (book and show) is striving to convey. What is it that Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman believe in so hard, as human beings and writers, that they want the whole world to understand it? Well, what I found, whether or not it is accurate, is at least beautiful. So I wish to share it with you.

Before I begin and you accuse me of pedantry, know that my every sentence begins with an invisible imho.

***

Since there is no way around it, I'll talk about the ship and the cruel, heart-wrenching, forever traumatizing, law-should-forbid-that-kind-of-things, cliffhanger. No matter how hard I think, this ship is the most beautiful love story ever (yes, imho). Is it because it doesn't involve burning passion, emphatic confessions and great sacrifices? It's about beings who harbor the same inner values but underwent such different trials that their personalities ended up diametrically opposed. Their love (and loneliness) pulls them together and allows them to rub off on each other, but they still retain their identities and won't go against their principles for the sake of the relationship. In the fight, they both proposed to each other, I mean proposed, like, let’s get married. And neither of them got rejected. They both wanted to be together, and made that part perfectly clear. What they declined was the terms of the contract. Either Crowley going back to pretending he trusts Heaven’s institution, or Aziraphale abandoning his faith. They both expect to be loved for who they truly are and believe in. And of course, this is exactly what they will achieve… True love instead of the illusion of love. First prediction in my Silly and Hopeful Book Of Prophecies.

***

Having taken the mammoth out of the room, I’ll explain my theory.

Whilst reading the book, I realized that the original story was never that of Aziraphale and Crowley (worry not, I have plenty to say about them…). It was that of Adam (originally, William the Antichrist) and the Them. More than that, it’s a saga about humanity achieving its full potential.

***

God

Of course, we should begin with God, since God created humanity, the universe(s) and the rules by which everyone and everything must abide. So. Who is God? Well if I could answer that, I'd probably know how to make a whale. I don't know how to make a whale. But certainly there are things we know, or can guess about God.

First, she (I’m a woman and it makes me obscenely happy to write “she” here) is the narrator. Second, she does not play dice with the universe. The first fact means that God can see everything, down to an angel and a demon drinking solidly for two hours, or a nightingale singing in Berkeley square. Second statement means there is no such thing as chance or hazard in that universe of hers. Everything happens for a reason.

It sounds like God wrote everything, everyone's destiny, like Gaiman and Pratchett did for their characters. Crowley says so himself. Humanity, Aziraphale, Crowley, everybody, they are all characters in the book called The Great Plan.

I think God injected herself in her own story under the disguise of Agnes Nutter. Only God can always be right.

So, here we have Gaiman and Pratchett hiding behind God, and God hiding behind Agnes Nutter. The Bible turned into The Great Plan, and then into a book of prophecies.

But what kind of person is God? Is She compassionate, loving, merciful? Yes. I firmly believe that. Err… Wait. Same God that drowned almost everybody, goats included, and wanted to kill Job's children… and goats!

“When his life was ruined, his family killed, his farm destroyed, Job knelt down on the ground and yelled up to the heavens, "Why God? Why me?" and the thundering voice of God answered, "There's just something about you that pisses me off.”

― Stephen King, Storm of the Century.

Yes. Same God who never failed to prove herself a master torturer, a mass murderer and a serial killer in a single package. How do I reconcile both sides? Death… is only temporary! I mean, Jesus could bring Lazarus back, Adam resurrected a fuckton of people, and Crowley easily performed miracle escapes. Maybe death isn't the terrible thing we think it is… (except for Nazis? But Nazis aren’t really human, are they?) As for Job's children and goats, God knew that Crowley was around, up to no evil…

Having said that, I remember Stephen King writing something else. Whoever remembers that quote, let me know. Something like this: " If God created everything, then It must rule over both Good and Evil. If It only rules over Good, then there must be someone who rules over it all. I’ll worship that someone as the actual Almighty."

I agree. Good and Evil are like two faces of a coin. Death introduced Itself as the shadow of Creation and states “I’m neither of Hell, nor Heaven”. Evil must be the shadow of Good. And everything is a part of God.

***

The Adams

No, not the family, come on! What would they be doing here? Ah, attending the Second Coming. Come to think of it, it's indeed the kind of event they wouldn’t want to miss…

Anyway, their name is spelled Addams and I’m actually talking about the two Adams of the story. Old Adam, who ate the forbidden fruit in the garden of Eden, and young Adam (I mean Adam Young) who steals apples in the garden of his neighbor. As I see it, they are allegories of Humanity.

As Crowley said, most universes come pre-aged, while this one will be allowed to grow. In the same way, Humanity is a species that will be allowed to grow. What ever for? Entertain God? Eternity does sound boring. Certainly a God could use a good laugh once in a while… But Nah. What do people do when they're bored with their lives? Hint: not their best idea? They have children! (or pets. Pets is a good idea…)

At the beginning, Adam and Eve are all of Humanity. They can't tell good from evil as they haven't experienced anything yet. Despite looking like full grownups, they are still babies. Crowley designed, not a star factory, but a fancy wallpaper indeed, for… a nursery.

Now, how is Baby Humanity supposed to grow? Crowley! Good ol’ Crowley! His temptation is the first opportunity to exercise free will. It’s the first lesson and the reason why the apple isn't at the top of a mountain or on the Moon. Choose for yourself, and see what happens. By eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve don't actually get any knowledge of right or wrong. The first sin marks the beginning of the teenage rebellion that is necessary to grow beyond what was taught. Everything that comes after is like an initiation rite. A six-thousand year long initiation rite with angels and demons along the way as teachers and… the end of the world as a final test.

At the end of season one, Adam Young is back to being human. He represents Humanity at a later stage. An almost fully grown humanity that has learnt a lot (too much?) about free will. Once again, it takes Crowley’s intervention (just slightly motivated by the idea of Aziraphale’s threat never to talk to him again…) to push Adam towards the right path. Note that I didn’t write the good path. I meant the right path, the one that wasn't created for him even before he was born, I mean the path he made for himself.

The main difference between Old Adam and Adam Young deserves to be stressed here. Adam Young’s education was provided by other humans, his parents, his friends, Anathema… It means in 198X any random human is that evolved, already. The question is, how did Humanity reach this level of knowledge? And power?

Yes, power. Armageddon was stopped by… whom exactly? Humans! Humans only. Anathema, Newt, the Them. Meanwhile, Aziraphale and Crowley were gonna kill the Antichrist, a kid! A KID! And who stopped them? Madame Tracy, a stupid (I’m not the one saying), psychic, Jezebel-of-Babylon with a good heart. A nobody? No. A human.

***

The education of Humanity.

Let's stop to notice that Crowley and Aziraphale are adoptive parents from the get go, watching the kids anxiously from afar, wondering if they actually fulfilled their respective mission as an angel and a demon, not knowing that having kids goes way beyond giving them toys and feeding them applesauce. It's a life sentence. Your kids will always call you at ungodly hours, seeking comfort after a nightmare, no matter how grown up they are. There’s no escaping to Alpha Centauri, and forgetting about them!

What I find interesting is who Aziraphale and Crowley are, and how meaningful it would have been if God had actually chosen them to be the Godfathers of Humanity.

Crowley is the one who questions everything, right? And how does one learn? Through questions. Those who have children know what I'm talking about (no wonder God won't raise her kids herself, being humans or Jesus🙄). It is often said that Science (Man-made god) replaced God. And how does science work? Yes, questions again ! Goddamn, annoying, neverending, pain-in-the-neck questions… Curiosity is the first tool. It's curiosity Crowley injected into Eve, to tempt her into eating the apple.

Crowley is also the one who would suggest a suggestion box. Because he has… IMAGINATION…(here, you need to picture Aziraphale turning a turnip into… an INKWEEEELL… ). IMAGINATIOOOON…. That ability is very, very important. Should I say paramount? God being a writer, possibly a mixture of Pratchett and Gaiman, she can only treasure imagination. Imagination is what created Good Omens. Imagination is what allowed Crowley to stay in his burning car. It was Adam's tool to change reality. Human imagination brought War, Famin and Pollution to life and it's human imagination again, that of three quite ordinary kids, that destroyed them. Not a flaming sword, not an angel, not a demon, mere humans gifted with imagination. And free will. Gifts from a fairy godmother named Crowley.

Aziraphale? Aziraphale didn’t come empty-handed either.

Was he just passing by, fortuitously, when Crowley called out for help? Is it pure coincidence that they created the universe together in a no-sex-involved-whatsoever fashion? I mean, the higher-ups designed universes, universes, man! Big, complicated, extremely sophisticated things, but they couldn’t think of a system that’d be set into motion by a single angel? Come on… And was it just a hazard that Crowley and Aziraphale ended up together on Earth, with the mission of thwarting each other? (Balancing each other?)

No dice. What, then? Crowley is the darker shades of gray. Aziraphale is the lighter part of the spectrum. And God knows that. God knows that Aziraphale isn't as white as he looks, although he does look very white. How does she know that? Because she checked. And several times, if I were to guess. God sees everything. And yet, she asked Aziraphale what happened to the flaming sword. When he lied his way out, she could have punished him, but she just went quiet. She wanted to know 1) if he would lie, if he would dare stand up to Her to protect the children, and 2) if he would trust his inner compass.

Aziraphale has other strong suits. He’s very gay and bubbly, and fluffy, and fun, and embarrassing, and endearing, and adorable, and… yes, I’m in love with him, say you aren’t. At the same time, he is quite strong-minded and aware of being Crowley’s soft spot. He can have his demon do things to please him (to a certain extent), with just a cute glance or a frown. He is Crowley’s anchor.

What’s more, Aziraphale is very conservative, and not just where fashion and music are concerned. He has unwavering faith in God (I mean God, not the institution of Heaven) and nothing, not his love for Humanity, not his love for crêpes, not even his love for Crowley (not sure about the order here), will change that.

Last but not least, our favorite angel is intelligent. (Since it’s Pratchett and Gaiman saying so, it must be true.) He is the ONLY one to point out the existence of the Ineffable Plan. And the ONLY one to figure that it might diverge from the Great Plan. Without the need to hear it, he feels what the ineffable plan is. And that’s why he trusts God. Although he is able to admit the error of his ways, I don’t think he’ll be doing the "you were right” dance this time around. Third prediction. (Boy, do I wish that one isn’t accurate…)

Aziraphale and Crowley were chosen as godfathers because, together, they are the perfect balance, they are black and white and the entire spectrum in between. And somewhere in this spectrum is the most important thing in the universe. Although the ingredients may have been the same, I don't think Aziraphale and Crowley were created with the same recipe as the other angels. Neil just revealed on Tumblr that Aziraphale and Crowley together are a circle. They are perfection. This circle is what God wants for her children. A mind that has no beginning and no end, a God-like mind.

Aziraphale and Crowley intuitively know that. It’s the reason why they turn into an evil nanny and a good-hearted gardener, in hope their combined influences will make a real human being out of the Antichrist. It’s easy for them. Because, this is what they’ve been doing from the beginning! They spent their entire time on Earth playing the nanny and the gardener! For not one kid, but for all Humanity as a youngster. Aziraphale and Crowley are masters at it and it’s thanks to them that Humanity has learnt so much. Pay attention, it looks like they didn't do much, in the end, to prevent Armageddon. But they raised the kids who prevented Armageddon. Of course, the ineffable husbands got some help.

Earlier, I mentioned angels and demons being teachers. They’re all doing the same job, infusing humanity with both Good and Evil through temptations and blessing, having them make choices and watch the outcome. Here, I must say that in the story, (and in History) it feels like demons have all the easier parts, as their pupils seem to always be way ahead of them, from pretty much the beginning. “Yes, always this easy”.

“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” ― Terry Pratchett.

When Crowley creates the universe, what comes first? Darkness. He has to summon light into it to reveal the marvels it contains. Are humans like that? Darknesses that require some light (not too much, otherwise they’d go as blind as angels) to unravel their actual beauty? So. Angels bring light. And demons just have to make sure the darkness stays into place? Something like that. But… if angels and demons are both working towards God’s plan, how is it they keep bickering? Stop. Is there a scene, a single scene where they actually argue? I can’t remember a single one… They all want the same thing. Get the bloody job done so everyone can call it a day and go home.

Why then were demons demoted and casted away? Crowley doesn’t even seem to understand what happened to him…

I guess it’s time I talk about the rebellion and the fall.

***

The Principal

The Principal? Who’s that? The one above the teachers, of course! The Metatron!

THAT Metatron… You want to kill him right now, don’t you? You want to peel off his skin with a blunt knife, you… wait, he doesn’t have a skin… and he probably can’t die anyway. You want to drink his soul with the tiniest straw? Tie him to a chair in front of episodes of Dora the explorer? I feel you.

Not sure if the Metatron has a counterpart. In the novel, his counterpart is Beelzebub, but it doesn’t feel like they’re playing in the same league. I mean… God’s voice, right?

There is a theory going around in the fandom that the Metratron has been editing people's past/memories, using the Book of Life. That theory was written by an actual novelist and it did sway me. However, if it were completely true, it would probably bother me. First reason is I don't want what I already saw of Aziraphale and Crowley's first encounter to be fake, even in the slightest. Second reason is… If you have the power to edit people's lives, why be so subtle about it? Or does the Metatron think he can make surreptitious changes that God won't notice? Hm. I don't know. In the novel, The Book of Life doesn't exist. The one who can "arrange matters af is you never even existed" is Adam. Not sure if this goes against the theory or sustains it…

Here are my own theories. Plural. I gave that bastard a lot of thoughts. I’m afraid none of them involve the disparition of the eccles cakes, sorry.

At first, I had a theory in which the Metatron was instrumental in the rebellion and the fall. It went like this. The Metatron is the voice of God, the Spokesman, as Aziraphale put it. Only when God herself initiates a conversation do you get to talk to her directly. Otherwise, you have to go through the Metatron. (The reason why Crowly envies Job’s opportunity to at least "be able to ask the questions") The Metatron may decide to withhold your message AND answer whatever he wants. Could he have used his position to create a cleavage between God and some of her most powerful subjects? What for? To overthrow God and rule in her place. Demons were sent to Earth, of all the horrible places in such a vast universe, so they could draw strength from all the human souls they’d lure to Hell… So they would grow tougher, smarter and more dangerous.

But that doesn’t seem right. God can see everything, remember? Okay, she could be traveling between universes, leaving Metatrons behind, as governors. In that case, of course, things might happen that she doesn’t know of. Even so. She and Satan still talk to each other. They at least met once, when they made that bet about Job. Surely, any misunderstanding would have cleared up then? Besides, in the book, Crowley mentions talking directly to God, although She just smiled instead of answering. I don’t know. I do have another theory of the Metatron though. Way more simple. Everything was set up by God.

God needed teachers for her children, but with angels being all good, better and best, the kids would only have learnt half what they were supposed to know. Besides, how would they make choices? They would just become angels as well. Obedient, boring, sickeningly good angels. God has that already. So, how did God trigger the rebellion? By using the Metatron.

Let‘s take a moment to think about who, or should I say what the Metatron is. He is a voice. All he knows is what God can say. He is oblivious of everything God cannot or doesn’t want to say. By definition, he is that one part of God that can never be aware of the ineffable plan.

I came to think of the Metatron as an AI, with flawless logic. If SF has taught us anything, it’s that any purely logical mind would want to eradicate humanity, seeing it for the nuisance it is. The Metatron must think that God made a mistake. Maybe God went nuts? Eternity with Elgar… it kind of gets at you after a while… Luck of the devil, the Metatron is there to save the day! What’s that universe where angels go around falling in love with each other, anyway? Nonsense! It's all because of humans' malfunctioning minds.

The Metatron’s sacred duty is to destroy humanity, if it is the last thing he does. To achieve that, he sees to it that a certain number of angels go rogue. Then he sends them to Earth so when the second war breaks out, the entire human race will go as collateral damage. In this case, the Metatron is the one who picked the evil teachers. He did the dirty job, unbeknownst to himself.

Another scenario is that the Metratron has nothing to do with the rebellion and is only striving to stick to the Great Plan, after Armageddon went sideways. In that case, God herself picked the teachers.

In both cases, the question is, was there actually a war? We all noticed how vague Crowly is about the fall, even while talking to himself. "Next thing you know i'm going a million light-years, freestyle-dive into a pool of boiling sulfur." And he can’t remember the guys he is supposed to have fought alongside with. There is some memory tempering here, or I don’t know anything. Either no Great War at all, or a war without Crowley. My bet is a war without Crowley. I read something in the book, can't remember what exactly, but I jumped and said “There must have been an actual war!” Besides, one explanation for a disabled angel like Saraqael could be a war wound. I guess?

Crowley sounds like he loves God, as much as Aziraphale does. This scene, where he snakes around his executive chair, saying "You said you’d test them". Maybe it’s just me, but I read hurt and love in his eyes, love for the world? Love for Aziraphale? Love for God? The reason why Crowley is dead set against going back, isn't it because, or partially because he feels he was betrayed by the One he loved and trusted most? I don’t think Crowley could have gone against God and seriously, how much trouble can you get into, just for asking a few questions? But then, if you’re going to submit your questions to the Metatron, who can’t entertain the concept of a flaw in the system…

***

The final tests.

It's like shoving a knife into the heart of a cake to see if it is well cooked. There's no way around the knife I'm afraid. God needs to find out if her children are fully grown humans. But what does this mean for Her? What does it mean, should it mean, for any parent?

It should mean that the young adults are now able to think for themselves, elaborate strategies to survive on their own, fight and overcome whatever life will throw at them, and… become a better version of their parents.

This is no longer high school, lads. This is college. So exams come in two waves. Midterm. The students have to prevent/overcome/survive Armageddon. And they do.

Armageddon didn't happen. Free will happened. Adam refused to follow his predetermined path and asked both sides to stop meddling into people’s affairs so humans can start to think for themselves. His friends rejected the nightmarish world that was left to them as a legacy. Dog became his own dog and is probably playing hide and seek with cats right now. Anathema decided to stop living according to a book written by her ancestor, NO MATTER how useful and accurate the predictions.

Yet another message here. Don’t let people tell you who you are and what you’re supposed to do. Your life and every choice at every turn are yours to make.

Notice that both God and Agnes sort of vanish at the end of season one. Agnes’s book is burnt by Anathema, and God goes silent. As if something happened that changed the course of what was already written. It's like Adam said: what is written doesn't matter. You can always cross it out. The great plan stopped right there.

And the ineffable plan took over. The ineffable plan is written by human beings in a decade-long essay that will decide if they passed the final test or not. (Of course, they pass, the show is called Good omens! Another prediction, gosh I'm so good, this is beginning to scare me!).

At this point, I think God is satisfied already. I mean if God is a writer and her characters achieved enough self-awareness to write their own story, then… they're real! I suspect writers' secret dreams have always been just that. Playing gods, creating universes and bringing characters to life! Not as puppets, but as sentient beings who will do as they please once the author rests their pen (closes their laptop, let’s be modern… but without bebop). I'm sure Sir Pratchett, having tea with Death, is kicking his feet at this very moment, seeing how many fans have fallen in love with either Aziraphale or Crowley or both and are spending so much time imagining the rest of their adventures.

A clue in the book. When Anathema burns the second Book of Prophecies, the smoke takes the shape of a smiling Agnes who winks at the world. I will always wonder if anything was written in that so-called sequel… Agnes wrote her book for her descendants and God wrote the Great Plan for her children. They must both be very proud that their offspring have finally spread their wings!

Now Humanity has cut the strings and gone from puppet to real living being. And that's where the fun begins. Because there is more to being a human than meets the eye. And this is what season 3 will be about. Oh, I know, it doesn't seem like there is an invisible imho. It's because there isn't! XD

***

The Second Coming, or season 3.

The concept of the Second Coming confuses me a great deal. Because of Jesus. The story doesn't seem to really involve Jesus as we know him, the one and only, the miracle doer, the precious son of God. There is a Jesus who ends up on a cross, alright, but no one says anything about him being special or performing miracles or anything. At the same time, there is an Antichrist, miracles measured in lazari and a second coming ( of Christ, I presume?). I went and picked some people's minds on Reddit. They had several interesting opinions, involving the third baby, Greasy Johnson, Muriel being Jesus under cover, and angels not minding the boss's son who only got this far through nepotism.

We see Christ nailed to a cross in the opening credits of season 2 and we see him again on the banner of the resurrectionists. All this considered, it looks very much like Jesus will have something to say about what happens next. I hope not, for it would probably feel like a Deus ex machina to me. That said, I think that the most important thing about Jesus has already been stressed out, his message.

Anyway, Jesus or no Jesus, there should be, as mentioned in the Scriptures, mass extinction, resurrection, judgment and either punishment or reward. Unless… the Scriptures don't apply anymore, since the great plan went down the loo and the new writers certainly don't want to see the world go to ashes. Unless… Wait. Wait a sec. We're talking about… humans! Hh!!!! That's it. We're baked. Literally. Nice knowing you.💀

And so what? What if humans only achieve self-destruction? Their choice. At least they got to choose.

But that's not really what I expect from season 3. Again. Good Omens.

After not-Armageddon, humans were granted a little time to study further. What will they learn? I don't think there can be a not-Second Coming. That would really be underwhelming, not to say disappointing. There has to be a planet-size all-out war at the very least, with pupils going berserk against their teachers (serves them well for highjacking nuclear weapons designed by their students! ) Only when the teachers have bent both knees, can the students show… mercy, kindness, compassion.

Love?

Jesus's message was "be kind to each other". Neither angels nor demons know how to do that. Both are cruel, cold and unforgiving. Heaven wanted to kill Aziraphale just like Hell wanted to kill Crowley. God on the other hand, used Agnes's last prophecy to save them, from what would have been real death…

God is much more than the sum of her angels, Good and Evil. Mixing good and evil triggers a chemical reaction that is the actual secret recipe to God's purest, greatest form of power. Yes. Love.

Aziraphale and Crowley drew enough strength to perform a 25 lazari miracle because they became one AND risked everything to protect their former enemy. They showed compassion and granted forgiveness (not to mention hot cocoa!). Gabriel and Beelzebub only love each other. They're not perfect together. Aziraphale and Crowley grew feelings that go further and run deeper than just romantic love. They experienced and mastered every aspect of love.

Every day, it's getting closer, love like yours will surely come my way…

Love is the last lesson. And the last gift. Now I know it sounds like everybody will end up naked with flowers in their hair… I for one wouldn't mind such a scene… I mean, if it's for the sake of the plot, what can you do?👀

… Anyway, that's how the students, following the example of the masters, embraced both sides of their true nature to become more than Heaven incarnate or Hell incarnate. They learn how to love and pass the final test! Last prediction. Almost last.

***

“There was never an apple, in Adam’s opinion, that wasn’t worth the trouble you got into for eating it”. At the end of the book, (Warning! spoiler ahead!) Adam, "half angel, half devil, all human, is slouching hopefully towards Tadfield.

... for ever."

For. Ever.

Aw, I forgot a gift, I'm afraid… Eating the apple was the path not to death (for man was probably created mortal as everything else). Eating the apple was the path to immortality. Crowley did the right thing. And so did Aziraphale. Adam is immortal because he is a successfully completed human. He's not the only one. They who were created in the image of God, the children of God, have become…

new Gods.

After that? Well… I guess the Bentley will become her own car and go with yellow and the self promise never to play a Queen song, ever again. The new gods may throw Earth into the trashcan since it's worn out anyway. Or maybe they'll restore it? Somehow I'm not afraid for books. I have a hunch that books will survive… Perhaps some of the gods will join the distant lights that "may or may not be stars?" They'll be like seeds, they'll travel through darkness to create new universes, new god factories…

What? Aziraphale and Crowley? They don't have to choose sides anymore. They were always on the same boat. And God loved, loves, them both. They can just love each other and be who they want to be. Adam, who could read Aziraphale and Crowley's minds, said: “I know all about you, don’t you worry”. Everything will be just fine.

What are they doing right now? Not sure. They're writing their own story too. But I guess it involves flying at the speed of light (or the speed of darkness?) to find the best spots for having picnics and reading books and listening to nightingales. I'm sure they'll stop by Paris. Somewhere near my house? I know a nice place for crêpes…;)

#neil gaiman #terry pratchett #aziraphale #crowley

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chaikachi · 8 months ago

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since you're caught up on the Locked Tomb, I thought I'd send some asks your way because I'm kind of curious:

1) I've gathered Cam and Pal are your favorite characters, but do you any particular favourite moments/quotes of them? Or just why you love them as characters in general?

2) any plot twists you didn't see coming but liked?

3) any dark horse characters that grew on you over the series or that you'd want to see more of?

EEEE I SURE DID!! Okay, warning for anyone that is not caught up with it or plans to read it, that there are going to be spoilers below. You have been warned!!

Yes, they are my favourites.😔 Friends specifically told me to read the books because they are "very much my flavour" and they were right. Which is very rude of them, tbqh :/// As for the why, it's a lot of things, I think. From a character design perspective, I've always been a sucker for scholarly types like Pal, and you can never go wrong with short hair and double swords like Cam. I like that they have a decent amount of contrast and are quite different from each other in some ways while also being soooo alike in others. From a thematic perspective, all the bits and parallels around devotion, identity, and responsibility. How just by knowing someone, we add 'indelibly to their weight'. How this is explored both as a positive and negative thing. How just by knowing someone else - dare I say, to tame or be tamed by another 👀- can change us irreversibly. How burdening those we care about is something we have to come to terms with, and that being burdened can in and of itself be an act of care. How these themes are exacerbated and mixed with plurality and merging. The ever important question of 'where do you end and i begin'? For moments and quotes, a lot of my favourite things about them are just how they interact with one another (or with other characters). The sort of relationship where words often aren't necessary. How so much of their connection is conveyed in actions. "Tell Cam... never mind, she knows what to do." and the "what to do" is her collecting the fragments of his skull off the floor?? that she glues back together with her own hands?? then travelled millions or billions of light years to meet with the one person that can pull his soul back into it??? Her carrying him, despite the risk and harm it poses to herself, because he doesn't have a vessel anymore??? Pal asking Nona to "give this to Cam" and it's a kiss to the back of her hand???? Sick!! Twisted!! I demand financial compensation for damages!!!! Cam had every right to go sit in the bathtub about that!!! What the hell man!!! But I would be remiss not to mention the conversations they have across the voice recorder when they can't speak face to face, the co-fronting/synergy thing that happens when the protect Nona at the beach, and of course: "Life is too short and love is too long."

I'll admit I was spoiled a bit to some things going in so that skews this answer a bit. There were certainly some things I predicted incorrectly but then was like "OF COURSE THAT'S HOW IT HAPPENED, HOW COULD I HAVE ASSUMED DIFFERENTLY". I was not expecting that many people to die in the first book tbh. What happened to the Fourth and Fifth houses hit particularly hard. Was not expecting Gideon to find a decapitated head in Harrow's closet. I think the most surprises I had were in the second book though. Kept asking myself what the heck was going on. The narrator reveal was such an unexpected and pleasant surprise. Like, I kind of figured that was the case but I wasn't expecting that to be how we found out. Camilla showing up somehow out of nowhere?? The full extent of Harrow and Gideon's origins had me at a loss for words. Also the epilogue leading into Nona had me soooooo confused.

Yes. I absolutely adored Augustine. Big fan of his whole vibe; i miss him. Also really liked Magnus, Abigail, and Ortus in the second book. Especially them stepping up and being the Responsible Adults™ Harrow never really had, but always deserved. Also Polyamory Win with both whatever Pyrrha and Dulcie had respectively going on with Cam and Pal aha. Very big fan of Dulcinea in general. From her appearance in htn to popping up in The Unwanted Guest. I don't know how we could see more of her, but I would not be complaining if we did. Muir is really good at characterization tho, i don't know that there have really been any characters I've actively disliked. 🤔

Thank you for asking! I'd love to know some of your fave characters/plot twists too if you feel like sharing!! no pressure tho uwu

#my current crack theory is that cam and pal got the 'u' in 'paul' from dulcie #that's why they were asking if 'she' would see them in the river #and why even tho it was the two of them as paul it was also something unfamiliar to nona. but again. total crack theory LOL #weird situationship characters of all time #honorary mention to pal writing bodice ripper fanfic on the wallpaper to keep himself sane while he was in the river for 8 months #where is that short story tamsyn? i know you have it; hand it over #enough rambling from me 💦#ask #asks #the locked tomb #misstrashchan

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thickenmyblood · 2 years ago

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Hello! Since we’re nearing the end of HIUH, I was wondering if we’ll see Laurent’s behavior addressed in the same way Damen’s has been? I can’t wait to find out what’s going on behind the scenes, because with the limited POV we get, it feels like Laurent kinda got away with his abuse towards Damen (though I know there must be more going on that we don’t see!) Like, while Damen loses all his friends, loses Nicaise for a while, becomes seriously depressed, it’s hard to find the hints where Laurent is similarly affected and in regret of his own behavior. Is the focus of HIUH just more on Damen’s behavior since he’s the narrator? I might be misreading things, but it feels like Laurent was abusive towards Damen their whole relationship, either in taking advantage of his money at the beginning (without Damen knowing this was Laurent’s intention, in contrast to a berencel dynamic) or verbally/emotionally abusing him later on. Laurent was totally valid in wanting to protect Nicaise and breaking up for that reason, but it makes me sad that Damen never felt he should break up with Laurent or that he didn’t deserve to be treated that way. Even at this point in HIUH, it feels like Damen, Laurent, and all of Laurent’s friends feel or act like Damen deserved that abuse because of his shortcomings. Maybe Laurent regrets it and is trying to improve himself, but it’s hard watching Damen be painted as the “bad guy” by other characters while Laurent, who genuinely abused him, is seen as the one who got “free” from Damen and is the one who gets a new relationship, support from his friends, etc. Even for a a character who can be “unjustifiably mean,” it’d be nice for someone else to call him out on it. Future chapters will probably make me rethink this interpretation, I’m sure! I’m just hopeful that if Laurent’s behavior was abusive in the way it seems, there’ll be space in your story to address it. Thanks for such a wonderful, interesting narrative :)

hello! you are not the first or only person who has asked me about this. I have chosen to reply to this particular ask because it touches on many issues and makes it "easier" for me to reply. now, my explanation:

1. will we see Laurent's behavior be addressed in the same way damen's has been?

I cannot promise the EXACT same level of detail because it did take me +260k words to get Damen here, but yes. Laurent's behavior will be addressed. however, Laurent's behavior has already been addressed multiple times throughout the fic by multiple people. neo, nikandros, and nicaise, to name a few. damen being dismissive of other characters' concerns does not mean the concerns have not been voiced.

2. was Laurent abusive towards Damen? what was the extent of that abuse? is Laurent an abuser?

as you can imagine, this is a complicated set of questions to answer because this is a sensitive topic. if you look at the list of trigger warnings on the fic, it is hard to miss the line that reads "verbal and emotional abuse". and so . . .

yes, I believe there were many moments throughout their relationship where Laurent exhibited abusive traits. he enjoys having the upper hand, because that's how he feels most in control. he is, to some degree, a control freak (which ties back to that conversation neo and Damen had VERY early on about control and how kids who have been abused sometimes try to gain that control back through other mechanisms*). there have been some clues that his uncle really enjoyed making him feel stupid and naive and like he didn't know anything about the world, and I believe he felt so deeply ashamed about this fact that he now does everything in his power to make sure he is never in that position again, that he is never the stupid one. and so that leaves him only one (toxic) role to occupy: the role of he who humiliates and makes sure to remind the other person of their own stupidity and naivety.

that is, obviously, wrong. which is what a lot of other characters (even ANCEL) have told Damen. which is what Damen will eventually bring up to Laurent himself. which will inevitably fall short in the eyes of many readers.

right now (ch17 being the last chapter up or about to go up) both the readers and Damen have every reason to believe Laurent used Damen for his own economic gain. as nikandros not so kindly put it, Laurent needed a lawyer or someone who knew excellent lawyers, someone who could pay for the fees, someone who could help him make ends meet to stay alive. this WILL be addressed in the story.

what will also be addressed in the story is the good cop vs bad cop issue. this has been HEAVILY mentioned throughout the fic, but it's basically one of the many explanations for (some) of laurent's outbursts (note: am I excusing abuse? no. let me FINISH). damen always being the one that gets to parent the fun way, the one that gets nicaise over the weekend, the one that doesn't have to say no to things because that's laurent's job. . . that's a kind of damen that laurent has grown to resent. this IS a source of tension for them and cannot be ignored if you want to see the full picture.

what i also think is important to remember is that for some of their relationship damen was in a position of power (he had money, laurent did not). damen also made A LOT of hurtful, ignorant, dismissive comments to/about laurent and nicaise (was that verbal abuse? was that emotional abuse? was it not "systematic" enough to be abusive?). the point of all this is to say: it's a very complex issue because I did not write this in a black and white manner and so I can't reply to people who expect that kind of answer from me.

3. has Laurent changed?

well, yes. his change might be unnoticeable to some, but I believe so far I've been okay-ish with showing and not telling. if you look for change, you'll find it in every conversation. he is more willing and quick to accept his wrongs, to apologize, to compromise, to co-parent, to finally speak to Damen about things he previously kept to himself both bc he knew Damen did not wish to know them and bc he himself was not ready to share them.

these final chapters will definitely show the most open version of Laurent that i have ever written. hopefully you'll understand every single choice he made (not CONDONE IT, but UNDERSTAND IT).

at this point, it's impossible for me to change some people's opinion of him. if you think he's a piece of shit that deserves to be burned at the stake, that's valid and I'm not here to throttle that interpretation out of your head. that's the beauty of writing and reading — I do my thing, and I let you do yours.

4. good guy vs. bad guy: which one is Damen and which one is Laurent?

there are no good guys and bad guys here, no villains and no heroes. every single character in this story is meant to suck as hard as real people suck, but also to be as giving and amazing as real people are. if you go into this story looking for a team to root for, you've missed my point entirely.

sometimes I struggle with enemies to lovers or getting back together or morally ambiguous character tropes. it seems to me that people who enjoy those stories oftentimes want the characters to be unlikeable up to a degree, you know? "you can suck in this fake, laboratory-bound, inorganic way that I control carefully to make sure no one feels uncomfortable, but NO, of course you're not allowed to truly and thoroughly fucking suck. that's off-putting! that's offensive! that's amoral!" well I am an off-putting, degenerate, amoral writer that writes shit fiction for people that enjoy quite a lot of blood and poison in their romance. I'm not better than anyone else, but also not worse.

5. you didn't ask this, but I want to reply to it anyway. "maca, what happens if I read all 300k words and the ending was not what I wanted bc you didn't address XYZ in a way I thought appropriate and respectful? what happens if I wasted my time bc i don't want them to be together anymore, or i do but not like this? maca, what happens if the story ends and I STILL think your characterization of Laurent is shit and you twisted Damen into something he's not? and maca what—"

nothing. nothing happens. nothing will happen. you'll leave a comment saying you didn't like it. I'll read it from my bed or my home desk or my work desk. I'll nod along to some parts. I'll laugh at others. I'll probably text one of my friends and say "what" about a line or two. you'll be upset for a while, maybe a long time. you'll write more comments. or not. you'll find another fic that you like more, that didn't disappoint you. you'll leave them a nicer comment. or not. you'll tweet something like "what a shit fic what a shit writer what a shit overall waste of my time". some people will retweet it. I'll see it, probably (i can't seem to escape stuff like that, for some reason). I'll agree. time will pass. you'll move to a different fandom. or not. you'll read better things, worse things, similar things. you'll forget. you'll misremember. you'll remember and feel rage. you'll leave another comment. or not. you'll move on. life will move on, too.

it was never that important, after all. just another fic you didn't like, or didn't get, or didn't read all the way to the end. all will be well, you'll see.

*WHICH IS NOT TO SAY ALL ABUSED KIDS BECOME ABUSERS. DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS OKAY. I'M SAYING FOR THIS VERY SPECIFIC STORY/AS AN ECHO OF CANON IT IS NOT INSANE TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS AND PRESENT THESE ISSUES.

#anon #hiuh #abuse

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