#season 7x4

[angelthemanspanker]

ngl the buffy s7/angel s4 crossover post has taken root in my mind and I can think of nothing else but the chaos of a hotel full to the brim with protagonists. what do you guys think would be the last straw for Angel's hospitality and why is it Connor laughing at one of Xander's jokes

[livelovecaliforniadreams]

#Real Subtle Guys

[allaboutlouferrignojr]

911 - Season 7 Episode 4 - Buck, Bothered and Bewildered - Lou scene #2

[scintillatingshortgirl19]

they should've had a threesome

[buddiesmutslut]

Okay so Eddie is absolutely going to be queer this season, & I’m taking that from Ryan’s interview about how Eddie sees Hen & Buck living their truth and how he wants that for himself. Of course, we’ve already talked about him mentioning the two canonically queer characters, BUT!

I haven’t seen it talked about who he DIDN’T mention, & by that, I specifically mean Howard “Chimney” Han.

Chim, who’s canonically straight.

Chim, who JUST got married to his wife & the mother of his child this season.

If Eddie’s comparing & basing his life off of somebody, wouldn’t Chim be the obvious answer? His friend, who’s happy & settled into married life with his wife and their child, doing kind things like fostering his friends’ kid so they don’t have to be apart. Despite my personal feelings about Madney, they’re canonically a happy, healthy, married, straight couple. If Eddie’s straight, shouldn’t that be EXACTLY what he wants??

Even Bobby, who he’s bonded with over the death of a spouse. Bobby & Athena, who are also married & happy & straight, making it work after tragedy.

But no, instead of those people, he picks Hen & Buck. Hen, a married lesbian woman who’s fighting to get her daughter back (not in a GREAT place atm) & Buck, who just figured out his sexuality, is taking it slow with a man he hasn’t even called his boyfriend yet (I only mention that bc again, Eddie is a nester, he wants a family)

I think who he didn’t name is equally as important as who he did & that’s why I fully believe in queer Eddie Diaz at some point, & I think it makes the most sense at this point in his story.

(I think it would’ve also made sense after Ana & his breakdown & all the therapy he went through THEN, but I can only go back in fics, so s8, post-Chris leaving, blowing his life up time it is)

[achilles-rage]

i just watched episode 4 with my parents and was screaming when tommy kissed buck (bi representation!!!!) but then i looked over at my parents and they were so upset and when the show ended they said they hate the way the shows going so basically this is proof that i can never come out to them gn <3333

[djkerr]

Diane, why are you doing this? You're fighting for a cause you don't fundamentally believe in. Because you make me angry.

TGW 07x04 Taxed

[queen-daya]

Crosshair Smiling in Every Episode -> Unfinished Business (7x4)

[t1gerlilly]

OK. so this is partly about Eddie and how the toxic masculinity from his father has played a part in his relationships and his parenting of Chris. And it's partly about Buck - how he sees Eddie and connects to him. How he wants his love and attention. But most of all, wants him to be happy.

And I can't help thinking this shows the feelings i think will come up in 7x4

I want them both to be happy. I don't want them to be alone.

[marvelstarwarshero]

It's so much worse knowing what's going to happen in 7x1 "The Day Will Come When You Won't Be" I just can't make myself be ignorant about it so I get to have a pit in my stomach for the next 2 episodes before it

[angelthemanspanker]

the scoobies putting up the dozens of potentials in buffy's (big ass but like, for a family of two/three) house is so funny, all of the first's targets sleeping on the floor of a house made of cardboard a hop skip and a jump away from the centre of the hellmouth. do they know angel lives in an empty hotel

[nqueso-emergency]

Well I won't talk about today's discourse, but about Tommy. I think that those who don't like Tommy (besides projecting their own desires and visions onto the characters and having some level of homophobia) can't see beyond the typecasting of characters that LFJr is usually cast to play. The roles he's played before (and which Tommy fit into before Bobby Begins) are the big white guy who is usually the antagonist, or he's very closed off, or when in romance stories (like in HIMYM) he's the boyfriend before the chosen one, but never The One. He's almost perfect, very standard, but not the right one, so the kind of character that is expected to be explained only on the surface so that the viewer with little information about the character is able to read him through the stereotype that he is collectively associated with.

So that's one of the things I find interesting about Tommy's return to the show, how Tim saw him in action, and after Bobby Begins realized that LFJr had chemistry with the rest of the group (Chim, Hen, Bobby) and since he still had little information about him, he could be a character to explore, doing something different, allowing him to break the stereotypes that come along with the image of what Tommy usually represents (and this is done even in the episodes 7x4 and 7x5 expressed in Eddie's reaction "Tommy is gay?")

And more interesting is how LFJr embraced this, bringing, in the little screen time he had, several micro expressions and feelings that can give Tommy what Tommy was originally not meant to have: layers, a backstory, a point of connection with the audience. If he has more time, it will be good for him to be able to deepen this and if Tim continues with the project he seems to have started last season, he can offer a good story not only for Buck, but he can also show a good case of how to humanize a secondary character, making the character relatable and not just a stereotype in any way.  Tim seems to have liked this possibility by the way he talked about LFJr and Tommy in s7.

Yes, anon! I agree!

[allaboutlouferrignojr]

911 - Season 7 Episode 4 - Buck, Bothered and Bewildered - Lou scene #1

[callmebrycelee]

One thing we don't talk enough about is Chimney's reaction to Buck and Tommy. The man is genuinely excited that his friend and former coworker is with his current coworker slash brother-in-law. This speaks volumes to how he feels about both men, especially Buck. Since season 1, episode 1, the relationship between Buck and Chimney has been very cool older bro completely annoyed by rambunctious little bro. Their relationship has evolved and improved considerably since those early days and minus the rocky moment when Chimney punched Buck, these two have grown very close over the years. Chimney has watched Buck grow up and mature. This is why he is so disappointed by Buck's actions during the basketball game in 7x4. When Buck and Tommy enter his hospital room, both covered in soot, at first he is confused but then you see that smile. It's the smile of someone who is pleased that two people he cares about have found each other and are happy.

[scoupsahoy]

i wanna talk about The Ship War going on right now in the 911 fandom (largely on tiktok and twitter) and i'm not a bnf especially in this fandom (and i wouldn't want to be) but i'm kind of hoping people on both sides are willing to read this post anyway because i cannot be the only one completely turned off by it

i finished writing this so i wanna clarify: this is officially aimed at buddie shippers (i am one of you) because i genuinely want to have meaningful discussion and also i'm not exactly defending tommy here. but! i think if bucktommy shippers were interested in reading, there is stuff in here for you too

i have to split this up into sections which is annoying but i won't be able to make any sense without sections so. sorry

1. pre-tommy buddie shipping

so like a lot of people i knew about 911 and buddie entirely through tumblr osmosis, and there was a general attitude of confidence: buddie WILL become canon. if it doesn't... something something. i don't really know the season 6 finale was hard for a lot of you. and after watching, i do really understand why. but.

from an outside perspective, this fandom attitude was nothing like i'd ever really experienced before. i stopped watching supernatural around season 11, several years before gaycas, when confirmed bisexual dean was genuinely outside the realm of possibility.

i was a tjlc believer. i was an episode 4 conspiracist. i have been delusional about gays on my television screen before. so i was really apprehensive at the way buddie fans were moving. not only was buddie GOING to happen, but if it didn't it would be a failure of the network and the showrunners and the actors and it could have been the greatest love story ever told and shipping was not ENOUGH. it had to be canon in order to matter. shipping anything else was fruitless and offensive. this was what i was seeing. and i was like. well there's no way that's going to happen

and then season 7 started airing and there was this reignited hope

and then 7x4 aired.

2. the birth of bucktommy

so i started watching 911 after 7x4 aired. a lot of people did. i'll be honest i did genuinely think that eddie was out and gay and i was like "oh shit is it finally happening??" and then i realized it was some other guy and spend like 4 straight days tumblr deepdiving into it

like i said i was almost exclusively following buddie shippers so my consensus was like. buck and tommy are cute but it's obviously (TO ME) a steppingstone for buddie. after watching the entire show i do still feel that way.

here's the thing though: shipping isn't about what is going to be canon. i'm a marvel fan. my first fandom was fucking icarly, okay, my track record of shipping non-canon couples that actually end up together starts and ends with nbc sitcoms and even then barely. shipping to me is about character analysis and smooshing barbie dolls together with my friends. shipping to me is putting some guy in a blender and another guy performing frankenstein experiments on them

it doesn't matter to me actually that a ship isn't going to end up together, even if i like them. i'm not saying some bucktommy fans don't overstep certain boundaries (that i'll get into) but a FAIR BIT of them know this. a fair bit of them were buddie shippers and a fair bit of them still are. and there's a reason theyre put off

3. social media discourse

the first real piece of morality discourse came from tiktok. i won't namedrop this creator but if you're on tiktok you know who i'm talking about.

this person started the tiktok talking about something that i genuinely do agree with: fans who love tommy but hated all of buck's ex girlfriends should probably perform some self-reflection on the very real misogyny problem in 911 fandom and fandom in general. this i am 1000% behind. a call-in of sorts: hey guys! check yourselves! it is really easy to fall into misogyny especially with gay shipping. though i will argue that buddie shippers could stand to do the same thing (looking at you, people who write fanfic where ana flores is ableist for no reason)

they went on, however, to say that bucktommy shippers Must only like bucktommy because they are a gay ship, And Also Therefore, these people Must Be gay fetishists, as the only reason you would like bucktommy over buddie is because you just want to see men make out with each other. You People don't like gay shipping in the Correct way that i do, you like to gay ship in a nasty fetish way (only slightly exaggerating). you saw that buck and tommy kissed online and you watched the entire show just to watch men make out with each other which is Bad And Wrong.

aside from the fact that this person also literally started watching the show after 7x4 aired (and like i said so did a lot of people. one would think this is a morally neutral thing to do), this struck a nerve with me. this take (which was repeated ad nauseam by everyone in their circle) is just plainly irresponsible.

it is inappropriate to suggest that someone is like. morally reprehensible for *checking my notes* shipping a canon television couple. is tim minear a gay fetishist for writing the bucktommy kiss? is the average viewer a gay fetishist for going "oh i didn't see that coming! they seem like a nice couple"? is my mom a gay fetishist? are you calling my mom a gay fetishist??

this is an argument that i've seen happen in a billion different ways over the past decade and a half of being in fandom spaces by the way. are women allowed to read gay fanfiction? what about gay porn? what if they get off to it? are they allowed to write it themselves? what if they're not straight? what if they're not women? was casey mcquiston fetishizing gay men when they wrote red white and royal blue? is the romance genre allowed to exist with gay men and straight women in it? do you have to check everyone's gender or sexual identity at the login page for ao3 and tumblr dot com to determine if it is morally okay for them to participate in fandom at all?

and then there was the comparisons between bucktommy and buddie fic stat breakdowns: bucktommy's are writing more smut And That's Bad and buddie fans are writing stories with plot And That's Good.

it. is. irresponsible. it is oversimplifying. it is judgmental and above all else it is irrelevant. people could like bucktommy because they think they're hot or because they think theyre interesting or because buck realized he was bisexual or because they think tommy has potential as a character. it is a ship. creating a dichotomy where one ship is the morally good thing to ship and one ship is the morally bad thing to ship is irresponsible and not in the spirit of fandom.

morality and purity conversations in fandom are like. an entirely different can of worms to talk about and this is going to be long enough already. but bucktommy shippers shot back with the same energy:

if you don't like bucktommy then you are homophobic because tommy is gay

i did see quite a bit of this argument because a number of people that id been following did get into bucktommy and i do still follow and like these people

i covered most of my feelings about this type of argument above but to reiterate: it is possible to like different ships without making it a morality competition. it's disingenuous and annoying.

especially that brief stint where people were saying that the bucktommy shipname was a slur against gay men. you can just not like it. you can just not like it and have it end there. it's an ugly shipname but you don't have to make it a moral issue.

especially because then buddie shippers pulled out the trump card:

4. the tommy problem

because these people just watched the entire show in like four weeks (again, neutral statement, i did the same fucking thing) they remember tommy from hen and chimney begins. and. okay

i'm not about to be taken out of context here. i watched bp's video when it came out, i think what was said was wrong, i'm not about to say that being racist was like. cool or excusable 20 years ago. i think there is a discussion to be had here about this though. there's a reason i'm typing this out carefully:

i want to say firstly that there IS a conversation to be had about the social landscape in 2005 and especially pre-obama america for the purposes of a bunch of 20 years olds who were not alive or fully conscious yet. people told casually racist jokes (casual in that they are told casually without intent for violence, not that they are not violent. all racism is violence) and there were fewer social ramifications for those racist jokes in 2005. that does not make them Magically Not Racist. they were. it was not okay. it was, however, Extremely Common. does that make it okay? no.

i'm saying that largely because it seems to ME that tim or whoever wrote that particular episode wrote that joke to paint a picture of where the characters are in the story. chimney is not under bobby. he is not being treated with respect. he is 15 years in the past (from when the episode aired. whatever) it is different. it wasn't supposed to matter who said it

(it did matter and it does matter that it's tommy who said it by the way. because that's like. the universe of the show)

(though my theory - and i'm just being stupid for a sec indulge me it's 3am - is that tim and ryan both LOVE writing in guys named tommy. seriously i've been rewatching glee and when i watched 911 i noticed this too that there are so many characters that we never even meet named tommy. abby's ex for one. my theory is that tim wanted to bring in some guy named tommy for buck's awakening and he realized he already had one. lol.)

SECONDLY. sorry that was longwinded. secondly, i am a person who believes that people are capable of change. 20 years is a long time to grow. even as an adult. again, this does not excuse racism, but it is important anyway.

this is all theoretical but i want you to walk with me: it is possible for a 20-30 year old closeted gay white man with a homophobic captain pre-obama to pick up and not experience consequences for inappropriate comments and casual racism and even be seeking out a parent-like validation from someone who encourages it AND THEN, after 20 years wherein he realizes he's gay, comes out of the closet, i believe it is POSSIBLE for him to unpack his internalized racism, apologize, and grow as a person

obviously these are fictional characters but it is important to my fucking philosophy of life that people are capable of change and having empathy or understanding that in fictional characters is so fucking baseline.

it is important that we as a society can agree that someone's behavior, ideology, and/or biases can change. that like. that just HAS to be possible.

caveat #1 that does not mean that any people of color who are fans of the show have to like tommy or even forgive him (or even like. hen and chim lmao it's kind of clear to me that at least hen doesn't) and i am not going to tell them to

caveat #2 i also understand that there is no explicit acknowledgment of this on screen (i think this is because tim forgot which i find funny but like i said. it still matters that it's tommy regardless of intent) and because of that there technically is nothing To forgive

ALL OF THAT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

even if we are assuming that tommy has learned nothing and has not changed at all. the leap from "tommy is/was racist" to "shipping bucktommy or finding tommy interesting Makes You Racist" is heinous to me.

sometimes people like characters who are shitty people. some of you like tony stark. sorry

it's ridiculous to me because there are plenty of other reasons to dislike bucktommy that doesn't like. vilify random people on the internet. he's not even framed as a particularly good boyfriend! we don't even know if they're boyfriends, for one thing!

i've been complaining about buddie shippers for this entire time but i literally am one of you and that's what pisses me off. you threw the first blow in the morality competition and you are bigger - and you KNOW you are bigger because you are proud of the fact - and you are winning.

you are right about a lot of it: tommy isn't a good guy. there is an active racism problem in this fandom. there is a misogyny problem in this fandom. but by and large buddie shippers have been in the game longer and have much larger followings and there is nasty shit i'm seeing which brings me to

5. social media discourse 2 electric boogaloo: twitter edition

twitter is a cesspool in the best of times but i have seen some shit in the past two weeks that makes me never want to write fanfiction for this fandom or even interact with most of the fans ever again. and i'm serious

there is a big buddie fanfic writer who is like. beloved. if you read buddie fanfiction you've read their work for sure. they started writing bucktommy and buddietommy fics around april. and people are being so nasty about them on twitter it is actually fucking embarrassing.

AND LIKE. god. fandom etiquette is so simple.

when i first started reading buddie fanfic the first thing i noticed was how many fics are locked. and i was like "i wonder why that is"

just look at these tweets. i have kept the author's handle here uncensored but please be normal do not bother this person. i'm sure their ao3 comments are hell enough already

what the fuck is your people's problem i'm serious

i'm like actually appalled. this is embarrassing. this isn't even the most embarrassing thing i've seen buddie stans do recently and it is NOT uncommon. it is not small accounts. you guys are the majority. these tweets have hundreds of likes.

i don't give a shit what this person was writing. i actually don't care. their fics are locked. they write for free.

to take someone's fic outside ao3 is considered bad fandom etiquette. to talk about an author where they don't have an account is generally considered bad fandom etiquette. to complain about fanfiction openly is bad fandom etiquette. i don't care if this is y'all's first fandom. in what world are you going to take to twitter and openly complain about someone writing fanfiction for a ship you don't like.

if i were them i would delete all of the buddie fics or never write buddie again i'm so serious. this is so ridiculous.

and this is sort of the nail in the coffin for me, seeing this tweet the other day:

this tweet has over a thousand likes

this is a larger fandom issue as of recent with the use of like. mental health terms as insults but it actually fucking disgusts me!

i looked at mark's twitter. it's pretty clear to me that he's a troll/having fun/provoking people on purpose but on TOP of that his tweets get at most 35 likes. i checked and this tweet got 21 likes. and over a thousand likes calling him schizophrenic. 24 replies doubling down. 25 retweets. 47 quote tweets. 62 bookmarks. over a thousand likes.

and buddie shippers are the good guys

it is ridiculous to me that as a fandom buddie shippers have created a space where it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about fandom misogyny, racism, of homophobia because everyone who disagrees with you is morally opposed to you, and yet it is this side of the fandom with enough traction and support to openly bully and mock these people that you have decided are morally reprehensible.

6. in conclusion i'm sorry i know no one read this

fandom in general post-covid has become less of a community based in sharing creativity and the love of something (and i know this intimately as a kpop stan lol). online spaces in general have become something i don't recognize or want to participate in. which sucks. i've been here for a long time.

i know there's not really any way for that group of like 5 or so tiktokers that complain about tommy ad nauseam to see this or even take it seriously. i know there's not any way for those people on twitter to magically understand fandom etiquette or just block the people they don't want to see.

everyone would be happier if they just. blocked and moved on. i know i would. and i have! in a lot of cases. there's a reason i blocked out the names on those tweets (note: i blocked mark's twitter handle. the person who screenshotted it so he wouldn't be notified and then called them schizophrenic did not. because they do not care) because it's not about THEM it's about the whole fucking thing.

and a lot of these people want to be mad. it's why they're so hung up on tommy. like i'm sorry if any bucktommy fan is still reading this but GOD TOMMY HAS BEEN ON SCREEN FOR LIKE TEN MINUTES TOTAL IN THE ENTIRE SHOW. HE DOESN'T EVEN MATTER. JUST ADMIT THIS IS ABOUT A SHIP WAR. IT ISN'T ABOUT HOW GOOD OF A PERSON YOU ARE OR ANYONE IS. IT'S JUST A SHIP WAR. and they want to be miserable. they want to sit in their little echochamber of morally upright big name fans and they want to provoke bucktommy fans into saying something shitty and they love it because they don't really fucking care about the show.

you know how i know? because tommy is the least important part of chimney begins. that is in the best 3 episodes of this entire television show and none of y'all have anything to say about it. because you're just as obsessed with tommy as they are.

[eddiediazismyhusband]

i need there to be more rat-man bashing fics out there bc im tired of reading post-breakup fics that paint that relationship as some beautiful dreamlike thing that happened to Buck before he got to Eddie, when it’s like A) that’s not what has been shown in the show at all…. B) yall love to write taylor bashing fics (no judgement i love a good taylor/ana bashing fic but lets keep the same energy people)… C) some of yall make it seem like Buck was in some kind of perfect relationship that just ‘wasn’t meant to be’ and im like do yall even ship buddie atp????

like even the handful of fics that are tagged as tomato-bashing, it’s like…. just him being portrayed as how he is in canon??? like where is the energy of like ramping thst shit to the max like we do with every other former LI??? like just because he’s a gay man doesn’t mean he should be immune from criticism or from general fic-writing tropes???

especially w the way some of yall write eddie as this aggressive ball of anger issues as if he hasn’t progressed past that since season 3 meanwhile certain characters are still displaying that cocky, arrogant, dismissive attitude they’ve had since they started (👀👀👀) but yall don’t wanna write that yall write him to be this ultra-caring, soft, knight-in-shining armor type of guy when that’s literally not even canonical to his characterization 😭😭😭

anyway, write more t-bashing fics please bc i need it for the soul

i need 7x4 rewrites where buck gets freaked out bc he was conscious about his desire for eddie and he doesn’t know why t-rex thought it was okay to kiss him

i need 7x5 rewrites where buck comes out to eddie and tells him about that date and eddie is like “fuck him that’s bullshit how dare he”

i need 7x6 or 7x9 rewrites where buck confronts him about constantly belittling things that excite him

i need 7x10 rewrites where buck gets upset and throws him out of that dinner bc of that joke

like give me yall standing up for buck since yall love him so much don’t give me that “it was the happiest relationship he was ever in and he got treated so well” bullshit when taylor kelly of all people was a better romantic partner than Tylenol 😭💀

addendum: upon re-reading the above implies that i do not care about buck— i would like to assure you that i do in fact love buck more than my own life which is why i want better for my boy, but there are people who claim to love buck and will simultaneously deadname him and to those people im like you don’t get buck the way i get buck