#reality vs fiction

[rey-jake-therapist]

The thing that puzzles me is this (over)-emotional attachment to fictional characters that certain stans don't realize. Oh, I'm being called out for supporting an abusive ship because I like to see more of her dynamic with Sauron? Um, ok? People talk like she's a real character, which I get it, she's portrayed by a great actress and she is relatable but still, at the end of the day, Galadriel (and all the characters) are not real. Sorry not sorry but that's a cold, hard truth. And that's why I feel no guilt or remorse for exploring her relationship with characters like Sauron and Adar. Because I like using them as tools for creativity and self-expression through exploration of dark themes that you can't do with 'fluffy' happily-ever-after canon ships. At the end of the day, these characters exist FOR ME, and I can do with them as I like, which means exploring the sides of them that Tolkien never went into detail with. And one of the many reasons why I like dark ships like Haladriel and Adariel is I like seeing drama between two characters that have so much in common, but can't be together. They are not real people, I don't have to worry about them being depressed and hating their life by putting them in situations as if it was real life. That's what all of those antis don't have the self-awareness to accept, sadly. Their main argument is we are horrible people because we like to put her in a relationship with someone who mistreats her, while they are 'good' because they want her to be 'happy' with a partner who loves her. Rereading that, you'd think I was talking about someone's sister. Which is why I say that there is this problem with getting so attached to a fictional character that you can't distinguish them from being real vs fake.

👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼

[airasora]

Reality versus fiction!

[ohhhmio]

chapter 58.

i love the mystery between real and fiction in this manhwa. because the world of fiction have merged, the question whether characters are real people, and if real people are characters continuously pop up. i thought I've figured out the answers to that, but now that a real person became a character, I'm at a hault.

[technicallywrite]

Wherein, I discovered that Kate’s lunch spot bench is in fact facing the other way, and it’s zip-tied to the fence (too many people trying to recreate the scene?).

Was really happy to replicate the view though, and I had fun walking around imagining various scenes.

Most of the ravens were in an enclosure (because of avian flu apparently) but there was one hopping around free, I guess that was one of the robotic ones.

[suicidalgamergirl]

Thank you, you unprofessional hack cunt. This is why I fear going to see Neil Newbon in person because my aniexty/paranoia of admiring a fictional vampire is considered bad.

Yes, I have a fiancé, he knows I been assaulted as a tween, and so making me like relationships that are fictional, helps me express my feelings to real people too.

Goddamn.

-V

[psychronia]

Just to throw my take out there, I firmly believe in fiction's right to portray and explore bad things or bad people. But also, the main problem is when people start treating real people like they do fictional people.

And the funny thing is, you could see the reason they do this from either angle.

If they see characters as objects, then their problem is that they start getting comfortable seeing real people as objects as well. They lack the empathy to see real people as living, breathing, feeling beings. After all, it's okay when they do it to "other objects". They can't tell fiction from reality.

If they instead see characters as people instead of objects, then their problem is that they internalize things that happen to fictional characters as something that's acceptable to do with real people. They lack the empathy to believe living, breathing, feeling beings inherently deserve respect. After all, it's already happening to "people". They can't tell reality from fiction.

I really think everyone needs to truly internalize this:

Fictional characters are objects.

They are not people. You cannot "objectify" them, because they have no personhood to be deprived of. They have no humanity to be erased. You cannot "disrespect" them, because they are not real.

[asses-to-ashes]

Pedophiles don't belong in the proship community. Zoophiles don't belong in the furry community. Can we stop conflating these communities.

If you're recovering from a paraphilic disorder, great! Can't afford a psychologist but are anti-contact and anti-enabling? Also great! I wish you the best.

My problem comes from the normalization and celebration of paraphilic disorders on this site specifically under the disguise of disability or queer activism. A psychologist will NEVER, EVER recommend that you post about it or engage in an online community of enablers. Paraphilic disorders are not kink. Embracing paraphilic disorders is not disability activism.

You can be anti-contact and anti-enabling without being hateful or making assumptions about people who have a disorder, but people who run Para Blogs are not anti-enabling. The ProPara community has turned into a cesspool of enablers and legitimate pro-contact pedophiles who hide behind the fact that people have empathy for those with disorders they can't control. They've created a space where people brag about being pedophiles and celebrate attraction to children. This is the opposite of how the disorder is treated by professionals.

Stay away from fiction & communities that could cause you to relapse or backslide. Proshippers are not attracted to minors, our stories don't exist for pedophiles to displace their attraction onto.

The reasons paraphilic disorders are different from fetishes is because:

1. They include unwilling people or people who cannot consent, such as voyeurism or pedophilia

2. They cause the participant or others harm that is potentially lifelong

3. They prevent a person from functioning or adjusting in society

I'm going to address a post I saw earlier. EXTREME TW for the defense of pro-contact "big 3" paraphilias

START QUOTE --------------------

END QUOTE --------------------

Being gay harms nobody. It is an attraction between two consenting adults.

PARAPHILIC DISORDERS are not normal attraction. Comparing being a pedophile to being homosexual is not the #WOKE PEDOPHILE WIN that you think it is. It's insanely regressive and harmful.

To reiterate, you are not evil for having a paraphilic disorder.

You are not a bad person. You are a bad person for glorifying it, enabling yourself and others, fighting for your right to harm other people without consent, and engaging in an online community of pedophiles.

[myfandomrealitea]

I saw some stupid post about what media you consume and create so I made a rant and I thought it would be fun to share with someone:

For people who say that what you read/interact/make determines who you are and your values as a person I have this to say; do you know how many kids played with their toys in a gruesome manner? How many Barbies have had cheating, abuse, and divorce scandals that ended with someone dying? How many Minecraft sheep have suffered the piston end rod joke? How many mlp horror fanfics were ingested and enjoyed by younger fans?

Did you only play with your toys in a pure and golden way? Did you not try out some dark ideas for fun with the knowledge that this is all fake? Do you think the kids obsessed with fnaf and poppy playtime and the other dozen rip offs are pro child murdering?

They do it because it’s fun to play pretend, not because they want it all to actually happen. If children can realize that you can do things in fiction that you wouldn’t want to do in real life, why can’t adults?

This makes me think of the Reddit example in the comments of an AITA post where someone talked about how as a child they used to pretend they were an orphan and had to navigate life by themselves. When their Mom found out she went absolutely batshit, insisting it meant that they wanted her dead and were plotting to kill her.

People who think you can only consume specific media or in specific ways always make me laugh because you'll usually find out they love Disney movies or love songs about rape and gang violence or read the exact same literature only its okay because they do it "critically."

[junespriince]

Fictional vs reality au

Wally, reading chat: ask your boyfriend too get you the limited edition Nightwing merch the game is releasing soon? Guys, I already did, you think I didn't see that? Puh-lease.

Chat: the Nightwing tax!!

Wally: the Nightwing tax indeed.

Batfam watching his subathon.

Jason: so that's why you needed to know where B's card was.

Dick, glaring at his 2d self, jelly: I wasn't paying for this since it was B's stupid idea.

[annwayne]

No really, read this article.

I have never read a more excellent article

[horizon-verizon]

One thing I have noticed is how Jon’s stans want him to have this really powerful bond with Daenerys’ dragons but I have NEVER seen them talk that way about Daenerys and Ghost. You’ll see Stark fans theorize or make fanfiction/fanart of the Starks having her dragons or being part of the Three Heads or taking Daenerys’s prophecies but you’ll never see anyone claim Daenerys will warg Ghost or another direwolf. I couldn’t care less about the direwolves but I found that quite interesting.

Jonerys is all about co-opting Daenerys’ Targaryen identity for Jon. Or make it seems like they are both leaders, when in reality what Daenerys is doing in Essos, in Meereen, just stomps on EVERYTHING Jon does (did since he’s dead, murdered by his own men, lmao). It’s just just about giving Jon access to Daenerys’ dragons and groundbreaking accomplishments & storyline. Ship trash as hell, by shipping them (or pretending to because they are quick to throw Daenerys under the bus, they just want to use her as a self insert), Jon’s stans can elevate him through Daenerys.

From what I have also seen of the most of the Jon stanning Jonerys shippers so far, I must agree. Part of it is that in real life, men also can't be much of anything professionally nor domestically without leaching off of their female partners and family members, so of course we have people do the same with fictional characters. Apparently in the U.S. men are more likely to get promotions and shit when they have children or get married or even just move in with a woman whereas it's the reverse for women. Still, bc it's tacitly expected the woman would be the one performing much domestic labor and birthing children that "depend" on the man's income. You'd think BOTH would get the promo for the household to get even more $, but nah...bc women are the main consumers but also the expected ones to consistently consume products for their households, children, etc.

Aside from Nymeria and Ghost--the dogs themselves, but in the case of Nym, the relationship w/Arya, I am in anticipation of seeing again in the books--the direwolves of ASoIaF don't really intrigue me all that much. And it could be bc we haven't gone anywhere away from Bran using Summer to warg AND I don't see how they'd be involved with the coming war to this day.

[wolveria]

I don’t engage with the “fiction affects reality” argument, because it’s a red herring. It’s focusing on the wrong thing.

Fiction doesn’t affect reality, fiction affects people. That’s the point of art. It’s supposed to create an effect, make you feel something. If you're afraid how fiction will make people feel, then you’re not afraid of fiction. You’re afraid of people having the power to possibly cause harm.

It’s a lot more sanitized to say “this fiction is bad because it affects reality” and not the more truer version of “this fiction is bad because it might make people feel things I’m afraid of.”

And we know that can lead to some dark things fairly quickly, the desire to preemptively persecute people based on their potential for harm, rather than any harm they’ve actually done. This reaction is based on fear of the unknown, and you can’t win an argument against the irrationality of fear.

[airasilver]

Or anything kind of ‘cest.

people who claim that “you fuck your siblings if you ship wincest“: how’s life as a terrorist since you like action movies so much? how’s life as a serial killer since enjoy crime so much?

exactly. media literacy guys, media literacy.

[fairytailfairiess]

I'm all for pointing out a flaw(s) in a character or a couple but the key of understanding one another with different view points is that you DON'T have to fully on agree with everything but to only listen to yourself is where I draw the line

I know Juvia has some issues I know Juvia takes her love for Gray on a level that no "rational" person can understand I know Natsu can be a bit centric when it comes to boundaries I know there are just small times when Natsu doesn't respect of Lucy's space I know in some reality that Gajeel wouldn't work with Levy cause he tried to kill her and same with Jellal/Erza

I don't mind talking about these things but people are so hung up on the small details to not be able to bypass the fact that they all really have grown in their ways even if it doesn't seem like it and at the end of the day they're fictional most people who get into this series are adults and most adults (should) understand that no decent person would act on these types of behavior so really people need to just stop taking fiction so seriously

[destinygoldenstar]

Regression of one’s redemption in real life: Expected and normal and shows that being a better person is not a switch. You will fail, you will make the same mistakes again and again until the lesson truly sticks. Regression is not good, but it is something to be expected on that journey. A bump in the road, shall we say. Regression of one’s redemption in fiction: “Bad Writing”

(Okay well in SOME cases in fiction that’s true, but you know, context matters, so not EVERY example of regression deserves the label I feel. The fact the character regresses isn’t bad. How the writer handles that regressing is.)

(Zuko & Bojack Horseman are some amazing examples of a character ‘regressing’)

[asses-to-ashes]

Longass post about some problematic aspects of 2000-2010 fandom, and why antis are not the solution for ongoing problems.

When people my age talk about 2000s-2010 fandom, they usually talk about it with rose-colored glasses as if it was the Golden age of fandom. I've done the same thing in some of my posts at times, and I don't necessarily see a problem with it, especially when you're discussing it under the context of the current climate of censorship and community harassment, but it's important to look back at the past objectively. When I say old fandom in this post, just know that I'm referring to 2000 to 2010.

There is a happy medium that needs to be reached between holding people accountable in fandom and avoiding censorship. The "anti" mindset goes way too far and polices how people explore fiction, but Old Fandom had its own problems with extremely poor behavior. In this essay I'm going to be exploring these problems in old fandom, the causes and solutions, why media censorship is never the answer. It's important to recognize and reflect on these things especially for people who weren't around to experience it. History repeats itself when Forgotten.

My point is not, and has never been that old fandom was worse than new fandom. My point is not that old fandom is bad at all. My point here is looking at problems, the solutions that have been made for those problems, and why they don't relate to censoring fiction at all.

I want to reiterate that I know things I'm about to discuss still happen. You do not have to comment. But it's important that we start looking objectively at Old Fandom as a wonderful, accepting but sometimes problematic (real problematic not the way antis nave coopted that word) space.

Keep in mind that this is an opinion piece. While I do provide statistics, I'm not trying to make any objective statements. My experience is probably different than yours. The experiences of my friends and my sources are probably different than yours.

With that in mind, let's get into it. Click read more for the meat of this essay

Cosplay Is Not Consent

Consent and sexual harassment have always been a huge issue within the cosplay community, there have been countless stories of women dealing with unwanted sexual advances such as touching, cat calls, kissing, and groping in convention spaces. At conventions in 2000, consent was never mentioned. With such a severe problem, the Cosplay Is Not Consent movement began.

This has been a notion that has been around for a while, been posted at some small cons as far beck as 2012. but it really only became a popularized sentiment at New York City Comic-Con 2014, where the phrase "Costumes Are Not Consent was posted publicly in the convention apace, along with a clear anti-harassment policy.

Even though research shows that most sexual harassment goes unreported, the amount of sexual harassment reports had more than halved in the first year of the visible anti-harassment signs and movement. The amount of sexual harassment cases at NYCC remained steady at "about a dozen" per year even as the number of attendees has increased from 151,000 in 2014 to more than 200,000 in 2023- A testament to the increased awareness of sexual harassment within fandom, an ongoing movement to protect attendees with anti-harassment policies.

A policy is only as good as the structure set up around that policy. An increasing number of conventions have a policy, display their policy prominently, define harassment, explain consequences, let guests know how to report harassment, and give separate protocols when convention organizers are responsible for abuse.

Now, instead of an unspoken "look the other way" policy, congoers are more likely to notice sexual harassment, come to someone's aid, and speak out. People who harass women are more likely to be kicked out of conventions and sexual harassment is more likely to be reported.

Obviously, sexual harassment and assault is still a huge problem in convention spaces, but with an increase in awareness around the issue, it's not as prominent as before.

Subsection: Yaoi Paddles, Glomping, and dangerous conduct

Reportedly first sold in 2002 at Otakon, yowie paddles are a wooden paddle with the word Yaoi burnt into the paddle end used for spanking people. They were a huge problem at conventions and caused a lot of people to be injured as a result. There were countless stories on forums about people being hit by random passerbys using a yaoi paddle, and people begged for it to be banned.

Glomping Is a running hug action that's a mix between a hug and a pounce. It was very popular in fandom, specifically around 2005 in the anime and furry fandoms. It was mostly younger people doing this and it caused a lot of people to be injured as well. Glopping incidents sometimes even included biting or groping.

Both of these behaviors were considered very poor etiquette, but were still very common in conventions. They were common enough so that even saying the words yaoi paddle or glomp to a cosplayer my age is like activating a sleeper agent. Your life flashes before your very eyes. Obviously I'm being dramatic here but it was very annoying.

Inappropriateness with Actors

In general, poor etiquette around celebrities is still a thing now. I haven't seen etiquette getting any better, so this point is less about a problem with old fandom and more about a current issue that still needs to be addressed. I'm going to be talking about real people, fan fiction and the blurred lines between characters and actors.

I'm not here to debate the ethics of "real people fiction." For those of you who don't know, RPF is a genre of fanfiction that involves real people. These people can be actors, politicians, historical figures, youtubers, really anything like that.

The problem comes from involving real actors in your fiction about them. What I mean by this is sending the actors your explicit fan fiction, or asking them inappropriate sexual questions. This is more of a problem from the early 2000's. While this does still happen now, it was really prolific in the early Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter fandoms.

Actors would frequently be invited to fan sites that had explicit RPF fanfiction. I've seen cases where actors were asked to sign copies of RPF, actors were mailed RPF, and were showed these fanfictions at meetups and conventions.

RPF never died off, and it's still a very popular genre. Between 2016 and 2017, fanfiction about real K-pop stars. Increased 10% on Tumblr. In 2015, Larry Stylinson was the number one ship on Tumblr according to Amanda Brennan, senior content insights manager at Tumblr.

Celebrities have been harassed for not following a fandom script, online shipping has led to the real life harassment of celebrities. For example, Lili Reinhart reported that her castmate was sent death threats because her character was getting in between a popular ship. This happened in 2017 and represents an ongoing problem in fandom.

Nazism and the Anime Boston Incident

I distinctly remember going to conventions when I was younger and seeing Nazi cosplayers walking around sometimes. They could be from Indiana Jones, Captain America, or whatever movie allowed them to wear that.

It wasn't until 2017 when Rose City Comic-Con updated a change to cosplay policy outlawing Nazi cosplayers including satirical or ironic cosplays which use Nazi paraphernalia or gear. Other conventions have also enacted similar cosplay bands in response to incidents such as the hello Kitty SS uniforms (yes, this is real) and cosplays of other fictional Nazis such as old school Hydra and red skull.

The most memorable incident that I distinctly saw on the internet in 2010 was the Hetalia Anime Boston Incident. For those of you who aren't familiar with hetalia, it's a series that came out in 2009 and initially took place in WWII, and each character is the humanization of a country. There is still debate on the characterization, especially regarding the character Germany- Poor guy was the cause of this specific controversy. The Italia fandom had exponential growth since 2009, and at anime Boston 2010, there was an incident regarding a hetalia photo shoot where cosplayers decided to do a Nazi salute as a joke. Even at the time, the sparked controversy on the Hetalia fandom on livejournal which is why I remember this incident so specifically. There were incidents like this beforehand, but this garnered enough attention online so that lots of photographers made it very clear that no Nazi imagery or posing was allowed.

With more restrictive policies and increased awareness, these types of cosplays became a lot less common in the west. The band are usually around Nazi iconography and symbols such as salutes and uniforms. You still see these cosplays today, such as an example from Hong Kong at Ani-com that took place this month, July 2024.

Where do antis fit in here?

I want to make it super clear that none of these major issues that I brought up here have to do with fiction. The points that are related to fiction, such as cosplaying a Nazi character or sending RPF to actors are entirely based on people's conduct in real life.

People never stopped liking characters like Red Skull, people still write about him and draw him. People should be allowed to write about characters like Red Skull and people should be allowed to like him, the issue arises when you wear a Nazi uniform in a public place.

People never stopped liking Yaoi. Little fan girls never stopped reading exactly the same stuff that I was reading at their age. The difference comes from behavior in real life.

Universally, the vast majority of fandom regardless of the time are able to separate fiction from reality. The problems were never caused by fiction, but rather people's behavior.

In order to stop people from cosplaying Nazi characters, the solution was not getting rid of all Nazi characters in media and harassing people who write about them. The solution was, very simply, to ban this kind of iconography at conventions and hold people accountable for their conduct.

Regardless of the space and the fandom, there are always going to be people who can't behave properly. There are always going to be people who don't know how to treat others. That's just the reality of looking at a group of people, some people don't have common sense. It is not the fiction that causes people to behave this way, but rather having a large group of people in a relatively new scene that hasn't established proper regulations and etiquette yet.

Allowing people to create, consume, and appreciate fiction that is not personally tasteful to you, or appropriate for some audiences, is an important part of society. It's extremely valuable to protect these freedoms, as censorship is a slippery slope.

My next essay will be about censorship in the Cold war era, McCarthyist homophobia, and why comic books were censored for having "anti-american" ideas.

Keep an eye out for that.