#plagiarism discussion

[alertarchitect]

I genuinely do not understand The Discourse around Palworld. Now, for full transparency, I don't really particularly care about the game, I've not played it, nor do I plan to. I'd rather stick with my FPS games and metroidvanias. I'm probably the closest to being a neutral party on the issue you can find in the gaming community. That being said...

Stop with all of the "[Megacompany X] needs to call their lawyers!!" nonsense. Yes, they have designs that look like Pokémon. Yes, they have designs that look like Monster Hunter monsters. However, I have one important question here...

Why the hell do you care?

First off, we're talking ripoff designs of IPs owned by companies that make profits in the billions. These companies, especially Nintendo, have - or at least have access to - very good lawyers. Do you really think Palworld - a game made by a company based in Japan, the SAME COUNTRY as the companies I see people saying are having their designs stolen, meaning this theoretical lawsuit would be 100% domestic instead of bringing the headaches associated with an international suit - would have made it to release if Nintendo, Capcom, or any other company had standing for a plagiarism lawsuit? Especially when Japan doesn't have fair use laws? That, to me, already tells me these designs are clearly in the "legally distinct ripoff" category, and that's okay. Obviously plagiarism isn't a good thing, but if this was close enough to be considered such under laws that don't include fair use provisions, it's FINE. Even if it's not the most ethical, ripoffs and bootlegs are gonna happen. This one is just has more publicity than most.

Second, these are - again - billion-dollar companies that make more money than most people can even truly comprehend. Why are you defending them so much? No matter how much I may like the older Pokémon games, such as Platinum, we are talking about one of, if not the single most profitable franchise on the fucking PLANET. Not only does it not need Random Schmuck #582183 to defend it online, the people behind it likely don't fucking CARE. The Pikémon Company is like 50% or more owned by Nintendo, which is a company that - as we've seen time and again with their takedowns of passionate fan projects with 0 profit incentive such as AM2R as well as their draconian YouTube content policies for creators - doesn't care about their fans at the best of times, and is actively hostile towards them more often than not. Why do so many people defend these large corporations like doing so is going to get you a "thank you" letter from Miyamoto? Why are you supporting massive billionaires like your life depends on it over some 3D models that, as previously established, are more in the "legally distinct ripoff" category than anything else? Are you so invested in their corporate wellbeing that you feel the need to try and do their PR & legal teams' jobs for them?

At the end of the day, Palworld is a game made by a team that seems genuinely passionate about their craft, that has been a fun experience for many people across the world. Let those people have their fun. And if the designs being ripoffs is such a problem for you, just don't buy the game. Simple as that. If you're that worried, let the notoriously litigious companies like Nintendo handle it. Don't try to be an ass to people just having fun in a video game. Hell, if you're so convinced this is a case of direct plagiarism, just stop supporting the people making stuff about it like we did with the people who played the Shitty Wizard Game. Obviously this issue is nowhere near as bad, as it's just a case of ripoff designs instead of people financially supporting an anti-semitic, racist TERF who sees financial support of her franchise as support for her ideals and uses the platform that gives to call for things like trans genocide, but the principle is the same in practice - just don't support it or anything to do with it, and chill the hell out.

[doomdoomofdoom]

Apparently there's currently discussion in science (humanities in particular) about whether video essays could be accepted as academic writing on par with the academic papers we currently have

I think that's awesome as fuck tbh

[pinkinsect]

they should let me cite my tumblr mutuals on academic papers

[platinumgigi]

you know, in light of the Great James Somerton Callout Double Feature™ recently, it made me think back to when i used to watch James' videos. i wasn't an avid fan and never watched his streams or anything so i couldn't have any inkling of the plagiarism on my own, but this all now reminded me of one instance where he made a point of something in one of his videos that was so blatantly wrong, it made me wonder "wait...did you even watch the thing you're talking about?"

and that was with his video on the Owl House, because i believe there was a bit near-ish to the end where he's talking about the open queer representation in TOH, and at the time the video came out the show itself hadn't concluded yet, but he mentioned alongside the not only very canon Lumity as representation the show had to offer, he also mentioned...that the show was hinting at there being a potential romantic relation between Hunter and Gus????

and that had grabbed my attention and made me confused, because...no?? did we watch the same show??? cause if you've watched the Owl House not only would you know that Hunter was 16 and Gus was 12, which is really stretching it in terms of acceptable age gaps, but also...their relationship was not like that, and didn't have any sort of romantic subtext to try and grasp at. the way they hung out and interacted was much more of a "dudes being bros" way (silly headbump handshake, comforting each other in their insecurities and what people saw them as "weak" for), and i'm pretty sure even at the time the episode came out where Gus and Hunter officially became friends, Hunter was already showing signs of crushing on Willow???

so, in retrospect, it now occurs to me that the reason James mentioned that was not because he had simply misinterpreted Gus and Hunter's interactions and the shows intentions for them in the future, but it was deliberately James grasping at straws to shoehorn in some kind of MLM representation into the show where there wasn't any. and while, yeah, in an openly queer show, still not seeing yourself represented kinda sucks, but James Somerton is clearly a person who doesn't value anything in the LGBTQ+ community other than the G. he thinks being a gay man (especially a cis white gay man) is the only real way of being queer, or at least the most "oppressed" type of queer, probably because news media only ever gave significant attention to the deaths of cis white gay men during the AIDS crisis, and that is pretty much James' only point of reference in "historical events that happened to queer people" because god knows he didn't care enough to research and write on his own, let alone research and write about queer history involving queer people who weren't cis white gay men like him.

and it's especially shitty that he that he tries to force this idea of Hunter and Gus having romantic subtext right after he talks about Luz and Amity's relationship. i'm personally not the biggest fan of Lumity within the story of the Owl House, but the representation is really great, especially for something in a disney cartoon. so him trying to then detract all the sapphic representation that Lumity provided and even built the show upon with an MLM relationship that not only is weird in context but also never even happened?? the AUDACITY.

and what gets me even more is that, by the end of the show, while Hunter does end up in a relationship with Willow, it's not a straight relationship. it was confirmed by the show's creator Dana Terrace after it concluded that Hunter is bisexual and Willow is pansexual, and while yeah, real shame that there wasn't any actual expression of those facts during the show's runtime, it's still nice to know that they're queer, and thus their relationship is queer. it's also great to have a canon bi/pan couple when there's STILL an immense infighting problem between bi and pan people thinking that one of the sexualities is trying to erase the other due to their similar (but not same) definitions. so having them not only coexist but also be in love is great!

but you just know, you just KNOW, that even if James' video was made after the show's official conclusion, he would probably either:

A: ignore Hunter and Willow's relationship and try to play on plausible deniability that they're just friends since they never had any great romantic gestures like Lumity's confession and many kisses

or

B: make a shitty argument out of it that the Owl House "could have gone leaps and bounds further with their representation, but Disney was so homophobic that Hunter couldn't possibly get to also be gay, so he had to end up with a woman :("

and while i think both are probably just as possible as each other, my money would be on option B, because god damn it this man can't praise a piece of queer media if it doesn't somewhat center around or involve gay men, and leave it to James Somerton to try and project himself onto the white teenage boy and think that if he were gay, that'd somehow make the story better.

this man actively hates women, especially queer women whom he loves to pretend are actually straight women, and if he had the chance would still do everything he can to try and make a queer relationship between a man and a woman into some woeful narrative of "what could have been" if they just made the man gay.

god, from this singular moment alone where i had a very questionable opinion of James, the knowledge i have now completely recontextualizes everything. this guy is a plagiarist, a misogynist, but most of all, an internalized homophobe who replaces the word "gay" in the content he steals from with "LGBTQ+" and "queer" because he actually *would* just like to use the word gay, but if he did it would make it more obvious that he's plagiarizing, so he instead makes "queer" and "LGBTQ+" be synonymous with gay to make it look like he's actually being inclusive.

and i don't really remember much about his video about Korra, i don't know if i even watched it, so the only frame of reference that i have is what Hbomberguy said about it in his video, and i frankly do not want to go and give James anymore views he has not earned and will never deserve, but i think he did a similar thing in trying to grasp at straws with a potential queer relationship between Mako and some guy who i don't remember (i really didn't watch much of Korra sorry) but that also kind of was not the case of their relationship at all either, from what i've heard. at most it was just people shipping them, especially since the footage James Somerton used in his video was from a fucking ship AMV and not even from any of the high resolution episodes. so again it seems like there's an instance of James trying to shove in an MLM relationship that doesn't exist in a show whose lead representation is a WLW couple.

again i could be wrong, and correct me if i am, but unless there's a convenient re-upload of that entire video on another channel or even another video website, i'm not going to give James' channel any more attention than it unrightfully has.

fuck this guy.

[sadkachow]

how the fuck did my english class manage to take a semi-positive stance on generative ai

[snoddie]

Normally I don't discuss big drama topics like this on my quirky little Tumblr blog, but there's something about the whole HBomberGuy plagiarism video that truly fascinates me.

It's the way Internet Historian fans reacted to it.

Illuminaughtii fans were pissed at what she did and viewers were calling her out for years, especially after what she did to her former colleagues. AVGN fans have been dissatisfied with the state of his content for a while now, James Somerton practically betrayed his audience and Filip Miucin is so beloathed that I deadass forgot his name while writing this and thought his name was Patrick.

Basically everyone saw what these creators did and we're collectively either unsurprised or disappointed to say the least. Internet Historian fans however, they were probably the most vitriolic community during this entire event. They were quick to either label the video a hit piece, claim Bomberman was slandering IH, discredited the video because of Bomberman's political views and friendship with HassanAbi (despite a majority of the video going after a left leaning LGBT analyst..) and in general, just kinda meat riding IH.

I don't think Bomberman went about the IH stuff perfectly, I definitely believe he had some hang ups with him due to IH's more...let's just say 'Chud' style of humor and the audience he cultivated. But to say the entire segment or even the whole video was a Historian hit piece is misguided at best and dishonest at worst. Historian might be reserved, but there's no denying that his silence regarding the plagiarism allegations kinda did lead to a snowball effect, people are too familiar with false copyright claims and some were a bit..too eager to bring the Jews into this. Yes he did resolve a lot of this, but there's a level of distrust I feel now, like how I feel with the other examples Bomberman used, if they were willing to do it once, what's stopping them from doing it again just with an even more obscure source? Historian and some of the others don't even have the algorithm breathing down their necks because they upload as frequently as Deltrarune chapters come out, so why not take time to come up with your own shit?

This is why I found the sudden nosedive into politics so...bizarre, because I didn't see this with the other supporters, not even Somerton and he's arguably the most political creator of the group.

If I were to armchair psychology my way into some kinda explanation, I'd probably have one of two reasons:

Internet Historian is a beloved creator who many people consider a trustworthy and extremely creative individual, and hearing him be accused of something scummy can have the most loyal fans feeling a bit wounded and defensive. I was definitely a huge fan of his work before the Bomberman video hit, I probably watched The Fall of 76 ...76 times? So learning it was made by someone willing to pull from someone else's work and pass it off as his own, it kinda stung.

The second (and let's be honest more likely) possibility is that there's political motivation behind it. No one can deny that Historian has appealed to more 'Anti SJW' crowds before, those people tend to be either more right leaning, center leaning or left leaning but don't like the way extremists behave. If you watched any video about Tumblr IH has made, it's quite clear whether intentionally or not what kinda audience he appeals to. Likewise, when the one person IH's audience despises the most (a leftist commentator, male feminist and someone actively criticizing IH) shows up, their instinctual reaction is to cry 'woke libtard getting mad at gigachad meme man'.

The reason all of this frustrates me, and why I even crawled out of my comfort zone of posting random crap and gay Homestuck drawings, is because it's a genuine example of political brainrot and creator dickriding muddying the waters of the discussion being had. Like Bomberman or not (I like his shit but don't always agree with his takes) you have to admit his video opened the floodgates for people actually kinda giving more of a shit about plagiarism online than before, highlighting how easy it is to get away, how there's almost nothing you can do about it law wise unless you're REALLY lucky and how much it can hurt genuinely talented or marginalized people.

And I'd hate for us to just ignore that conversation because you don't wanna admit your favorite funny internet guy might not be the best person.

Here's an unrelated picture of Wurmple eating soup.

[shipofthesis]

Curiosity got the better of me and I watched James Somerton's Revolutionary Girl Utena analysis video. I ended up transcribing some of it to better follow some of what's said, so putting some of those snippets here. Placing these specifically because it paints a real bleak picture of how this man views abuse survivors. (For a more thorough debunking/clarifying commentary on the vid, this post's pretty good!)

14:16 Looking at real-world parallels, a given individual can endure much less debilitating physical and psychological trauma and be ruled as unfit by the state to make their own decisions. There are a number of other hints and instances in the plot, that strongly indicate that Anthy's willpower is so eroded that she has no sense of self-preservation whatsoever and is emotionally stunted to the point where she needs people to make decisions for her because she does not know how to think for herself. Something that Utena has been trying to get her to realize about herself this whole time.

Citing conservatorships as a supporting argument is wild. Ah yes, in real life mentally ill/disabled people can lose their rights!

39:30 People generally feel good when they are reassured of their Self existing in the world. When you are told that your self is to be a victim over time, your brain can cross those wires. Suddenly victimhood feels good, because you get that positive reassurance dopamine hit.

Very strange way to frame this. Wires cross, dopamine hits... how about actually talking about psychology and coping mechanisms?

51:42 That yes [Utena] somehow did manage to use the power of revolution and she used it in an impossible, selfless way. She liberated her best friend from a toxic power dynamic she had with her family. And for those who know, getting someone to abandon a toxic family environment, even if it is emotionally and psychologically damaging, is next to impossible. Many people who try to separate a friend from a toxic family end up having to abandon their friendship to protect their own mental health. Through a not-so-allegorical reading, we can say Utena did the same. That ultimately in spite of her bravado and nobility, she had to throw in the towel.

This is at the end of the video and is presumably a personal anecdote/observation by Mr. Somerton. When I got to this part his reductive view of Anthy made a lot more sense, it almost feels like he's trying to absolve himself.

[willowser]

trying to hide your plagiarism isn’t a good look bestie

okie !! taking this moment, for the first and last time, to say, overall: if you're coming into my inbox to be hateful, it will be deleted outright 😌 i am a grown, adult human being and this is my little space and !! i won't allow anyone to poison it 😌 thank you !!!

to you specifically, anon-dear !! you have come to visit me and left me hateful messages just about every day for going-on three weeks now !! so i will finally acknowledge you publicly and give you the attention you so desire !! 😌

you have yet to supply me with any evidence whatsoever that i've plagiarized, as i asked you to do in my first response, and that proves to me that there is none ! you claim that i locked my blog to delete evidence, but — again, i ask you — what evidence ? if you would be so kind as to give me even a smidgen of an idea, i would be glad to pull it up for you ! bc i didn't, in fact, delete anything while i was private.

again, i offer you the opportunity to message me privately, if this is a real concern of yours ! which i don't believe you will do, but ! i will be waiting ! if you're still insisting that i've stolen the "love island bakugou" concept, then i urge you to understand what plagiarism really is.

you've also called me a "white, racist piece of shit" that "steals from woc", which is hilarious, considering i'm hispanic.

and finally !! this will not continue 😌 please understand that every message you send to my inbox with no other intention than to be hateful and ugly, will only be seen by you and i and it will die there because that's what i've decided 😌 you will not exist here in my lil safe space, because, again, that's what i've decided 😌

genuinely, i wish you the best, and i hope that you will grow from this ! if you would ever like to come into my inbox to talk to me about the things you love or whatever head-canons you have for your favorite 2d men or any other thing that belongs in this place — i would love to have you 🩷✨️

[academicgangster]

@mothcub 's video about plagiarism from earlier this year. An important watch.

[confessions-of-a-doormat]

ok know i haven’t used this blog in ages but

recently watched hbomberguy’s plagiarism video, and it made me think a lot about how common plagiarism is and how people justify it to themselves.

as far as i remember, i haven’t intentionally committed plagiarism. there has been once or twice where i used things someone made without realizing it wasn’t the equivalent of, say a free stock photo. and while i do try to correct mistakes like that, looking back, maybe i could have done a little more work to verify the thing’s source, make sure i wasn’t stealing.

maybe sometimes i have so much to do i see something that claims to be free use and don’t look into it more.

i don’t know what point i want to make with this, i just, maybe wanna look more at what i do and make, and take more time to make something my own or verify sources. won’t it make me feel better too? if i receive a compliment on something i created and it’s more than just a jigsaw of others? of course, i won’t have time to make every single piece of a thing uniquely mine, and there’s reasons i don’t wanna focus on that either - perhaps i’ll get into it sometime in another post - but i would like to put more effort into making sure my work reflects me, and my style

i very easily fall into a pattern of trying to accommodate others, be who they want me to be. i used to be intensely creative, and now i find myself struggling to come up with ideas. the other week, i made a very cool piece of art, and while i adore it, and it is uniquely mine, i based it around an album from a band i like, because i couldn’t myself think of anything i wanted to express artistically. in trying to be the foil for others i have lost myself, and i want to gain that back.

hbomberguy mentioned about how some of the people he took down could have been or done great things, if they had focused on uplifting others or making original work. instead, they made a facsimile of something great, their voices merely an old, worn-out recording. i want to be amazing. i want to bring something wonderful to the world, or at least to a good few. i’ve decided to try to do better, and i hope i can follow through on that.

[boundinparchment]

Be back in 2024

I’m tired. Find me at the usual places. If you want my discord, message me.

I’ll be hibernating until January.

[kingcriccket]

some people seem way too happy abt the creators "TAKEN DOWN" in the hbomb video. people gleefully talking about Somerton's upcoming veer to the right. just always looking for someone they can feel guiltless and happy about tearing to shreds. and bloodletting wasn't the main point of that video. why is that the main takeaway.

[ravenmold]

Listen tumblr artists I love and respect you. Which is why I'm asking you to please - PLEASE - put your name or tumblr on any pic or piece of art you post here. Even if it's a doodle. And not in the post, in the IMAGE. If you had a hand in its creation, your name deserves to be on there. Protect your own intellectual property, but also make it easier for people across the web to find you, because chances are that it's gonna end up somewhere else.

Also you're making it through this year so well so far! You deserve a little treat

[randomnameless]

Localization discourse has started to rear its head again because of some Funimation localizer defending a line from Dragon Maid but it really got me thinking, I feel like so many people are so quick on demonizing anyone who doesn't like localization changes as pro-GG when it's much more simpler. People don't hate localization changes because of the message itself but rather because it's not what the character is saying 9/10 and it comes off as calculated and cynical. I feel like it's kind of a direct consequence of transformative fandom, with the whole "I'm going to write the story the way I want it to be and fill up the spaces" but instead of a fanfic it's with the original source material.

Pro GG?

What is GG? AI?

I remember this argument of the "it's not what the character is saying" and people being pissed because they couldn't get the "right" script - and tbh, after reading some arguments here and there, localisation always comes with necessary changes/adaptation to the text, let it be grammatically or to convey ideas from a language to another, so if you want a 100% faithful script then... better start to learn the language lol

With Funimation though...

The Shinchan earlier post was telling enough of my opinion about drastic changes that aren't used to transcribe a meaning or convey an idea to a foreign audience, it's just... erasing the source material and swapping your own ideas on them.

Like, uhhh

Funimation acquired the Shin-chan US license in 2005. Funimation's dub takes many liberties with the source material and was heavily Americanized. Many sexual references, dark humor, and references to then-current popular American culture were added, including many jokes about subjects such as Jews, terrorism, and Viagra. Characters were given significantly different personalities and new, previously non-existent backstories. For instance, Shin is refused an allowance, on he basis that he could use it to buy drugs (crystal meth), his schoolmate Kazama ('Georgie Herbert Walker Prescott III' in this dub) was an absurdly hawkish ultra-conservative Republican, the unseen father of Nene (known in the dub as "Penny") was suggested to be physically abusive towards both his wife and daughter, Principal Enchou was rewritten as a half Romani, half Peruvian man with a complicated, checkered backstory that includes a stint as an accident-prone magician, The kids' teacher: Yoshinaga-sensei (known in the dub as "Miss Polly"), was rewritten as a kinky and often domineering nymphomaniac,

The earlier Vitello and Phuuz dub also edited some jokes and/or what was considered indecent exposure like shin's buttocks and tried to "occidentalise" a few references, but it wasn't like straight up changing what a character is or their personality!

No doubts funimation was "authorised" by whoever had the rights of the franchise to lolcalise and edit it as they did but it just comes out as a "why did they rewrite that stuff like they did", to make more money, to make another "mature cartoon" like Family Guy expy, idk.

And to be honest... I don't really care, because I grew up with the Vitello Dub and read some manga chapters of Shin-chan, so I know what the manga/anime (sure, the dog wasn't named lucky but shiro!) is supposed to say and/or be about.

I don't agree when you say those "lololcalisations" are a consequence of the transformative fandom in general, transformative works have existed since... forever lol (some dude wrote in the early middle ages (grégoire de Tours?) how Franks are descendans of Achilles or something to explain how kickass his king and his people are like, at this point, he's writing a self-insert OC story, right?)

But in modern times, there used to be a clear (?) divide between what was transformative work and what was canon - 50 Shades of Grey sort of started as a Twilight fanfic, but it became its own thing and no calls it a Twilight adaptation or "Twilight" anymore.

The Aeneid? Despite what devoted fans wants the world to believe, is "just" a fanfiction, aka someone writing about the characters he """loves""" no matter how OOC they are. It's a Fodlan fanfic and treated as such. Or should lol.

Still, if in a fanfic, Flayn can apologise for being born as a lizard because having lizard blood means she's automatically evil and oppresses humanity due to the fact she exists, it's only a fanfic. It's not something I like, OOC as fuck, but okay, moving on. Rhea eating ketchup is my own hc, also OOC since we don't see her eating any in the games, same thing - but fanfics are OOC by essence because they're a transformative work !

As I said, okay, moving on.

But when what is supposed to be as close as "canon", albeit translated, dips in the same "OOC" territory?

Sure, Eng!Raphael will say "I" instead of "ore" to refer to himself - and yet, imo, if professional localisers (at least the people picked by the company to bring games to an international audience!) have some sort of leeway with canon, their work is inherently transformative - since they're localising -they are still bound by some rules, unlike a fanfic author, because the aim of their work is not the same.

When you write a fanfic, you write it for yourself, to tell the story you want.

Of course it depends, like the funi shin chan dub showed, but usually, I think, when you are a professional localising something (a manga, anime, book, tv series, myth, story, anything!) you are supposed to only bring "necessary" changes to the source material to bring this source material to the "targeted audience".

And it's kind of hard to determine at what point is a "change" necessary or not - back in the 2000, "Jonouchi" had to be changed in "Joey" because, supposedly, non japanese children wouldn't be able to understand/connect/watch/idk a show with a foreign name (even here in France, we got "Petit Coeur" aka Small/Little Heart for... Piccolo in the early 90s!) - but now in the 2020s Midorima isn't dubbed "Mike".

(even if 2013 saw a localised Fates edit "Suzukaze" to "Kaze" for reasons as foggy as Fodlan's 10k years of lore)

And we of course have the notion of "targeted audience" - here in France, in the 90s, basically any "animated cartoon" was supposed to be targeted for children, like 3 to 10 years old. Which is the reason why we got lunar dubs for Hokuto no Ken and City Hunter (no "brothels", but instead, "vegetarian restaurants"!).

Yugioh was dubbed for a younger audience than, I guess, what was the targeted audience for the manga (even the original anime, regardless of the dub or not, feels like it was made for younger "children" than the ones who would read the manga!).

And this is where I wanted to come with the modern "transform the source material!" lolcalisations - are they "heavily" edited because they target a specific audience?

Like... the funimation Shinchan dub was obviously not aimed at children the manga, or even the original anime, hell even the Vitello dub, were targeting.

It's almost as if we're not talking about "bringing this definite thing to random people", but "finding/tweaking random things to definite people".

Take Fodlan's lolcalisation, especially Treehouse/Pat's.

NoA was the only regional branch to have, on the official website, something like "the Church controls Fodlan".

Through the 4 (already 4!) years of coverage, some people are still finding dub exclusive lines that portray the CoS as "BaD" or in a more negative light than the original text. Pat completely missed (or was it on purpose?) Rhea's character, so Leigh had to dub Rhage, when Supreme Leader was scrubbed off her most, uh, dubious personality traits (tfw no information campaign anymore :( or calling Rhea a Nabatean as an insult :()

Why? Why those changes? Is it because Pat/Treehouse didn't want to bring the game to the US, but wanted to bring this game to the "Dany revolution yas slay kween" crowd + the "organised religion especially catholicism BaD" crowd? Or because they thought bringing "a game" to this crowd would bring more money than to bring "Fire Emblem Three Houses" to the general US crowd? So they "reworked" FE16 to have messages that would attract this certain crowd ?

(and apparently it worked, iirc the US sales made up for 50% of FE16's sales, so it was very popular (and profitable!!))

The Pat/Treehouse changes weren't "necessary" to understand the source material, or try to find similar references (a trip to a hot spring in Shinchan was replaced with a trip to Paris, because children who might not be familiar with japan might not know what is a hot spring, or what a "trip to the hot spring" is supposed to be), so why were they made?

Is it like the Funimation dub? To reach specific people, even if the meaning and essence of the original material is lost?

In a nutshell, I don't think localisation companies (Treehouse or Funi) work in a vaccum, if they can lolcalise so much, it obviously means they got the authorisation of whoever has the rights to the original source material (maybe even the creator themselves!) to "edit" the content...

But that's what I came to regret the time where localisation, even if they had westernised names and more westernised refs, wasn't that "free", as in, Funi and Pat/Treehouse write their fanfic of Shinchan/FE16 ? Sure, why not, I mean, everyone can write a fanfic. Can I get a peak at the original source - edited as necessary because i'm not reading in the original language and I might not catch all references - please? No, because the only thing available is either something I cannot understand, or a fanfiction that takes liberties, as fanfic do, with canon.

Take Shinchan.

OG : Shin is a preschooler who has a dog named Shiro - meaning white - because his dog is white.

Vitello dub : Shin is a preschooler who has a dog named Lucky.

Funi dub : Shin wants an allowance but his parents are afraid he will buy meth and he has a dog named Lucky.

Remove the "old school" Vitello dub, and either Shin is a preschooler who named his dog "white" because the dog is white, or Shin is... a young child who receives money but lives in an area where he could buy drugs.

I can't understand the OG material, and I know the Funi one is a fanfiction, so what should I do? Treat this fanfic as canon, or, learn the language/try to understand the material by myself using dubious tools like translating apps? Or am I cursed to forever miss on Shinchan, even in the 2000s, aka an era where people can translate and localise movies from one language to another, but apparently for this one manga/anime, it's not possible unless it's lolcalised? Snowhite was turned into "Blanche-Neige" but the story is mostly the same than the one told in the US, but for Shinchan, I can only get the "Family Guy" version that isn't told in Japan?

I remember there was a controversy about localisation (when the thing that sparked that controversy wasn't even localisation related!) where some people, annoyed with the "liberties" they have with their dub version, became intense and rude and want to see localisers as "mere" translators...

And it escalated to have some localisers basically saying a game they localised is "their take" on a story - which is true, because each translation/localisation works with the bias of the translator/localiser, even if they try to be as neutral as possible, they can't completely remove themselves from their work -

Still, in FE16, Pat'n'Treehouse removed the "Supreme Leader uses propaganda" mention. Why? Is it their bias talking, they don't want her to "look bad"? But the script, the game wants the player to know she uses "information campaigns". Pat's "take" is she doesn't use it, but as a player, can't I be offered the choice to make my own take after seeing the script that mentions it, or not? Is Pat the one who directed the script, and wrote it as the "main thread" that links everything in the game (regardless of Fodlan's consistency lol), or was it Kusakihara/someone else?

If pat arbitrarly "removes" this part of the script, but I see it because I play in Japanese/Chinese/Korean/heck maybe other languages whose dub wasn't overseen by Pat, can it be said I played the same game as the players who played with the Pat dub/script?

Pat's CF!Felix calls Dimitri a monster, OG CF!Felix calls him a man -> thankfully we can count on fans to find stuff like this out but, again, why this bias against Dimitri in CF - that comes here from the lolcalisation, and not from the original text?

Why is it there? What if someone wants to play, and hopefully, understand, not Pat's "take" on their relationship in CF, but the writers/developer's? Is that someone fucked, or kindly asked to learn japanese (aka to do Pat'n'Treehouse's job?).

I don't really have The Perfect Solution (tm) anon to the general localisation discourse, at one point I was on the "just translate" fence, but when you understand a pun or a reference, and how it connects to something else, the game/book/anime/movie you're watching takes another level and it's much more enjoyable!

And yet, growing up with 4Kids and seeing shit like Treehouse butchering stuff, or hearing about Funimation Shinchan is... disheartening.

The only thing I can say is I'll always be rooting for dual audio, let it be for preferences but also to get at least what is easily understandable to everyone (I mean intonations, shocks, laughs, etc etc) and a glimpse at what the game/moving/anime is supposed to be enjoyed, especially with story heavy scripts like the FE series - while reading subs, because even the script is translated/localised, at least with the audio, it's easier to spot "lolcalisations".

And let's not forget the most important lol

The Fandom itself!

Let it be for FE, Tales or anything else, what I find fascinating (on Tumblr but even on redshit and SF once upon a time!) is how fans will be able to compare scripts, people familiar/fluent/who know a language will be able to spot the changes, and inform anyone who wants to be informed in the community that, say, Xander and Marx are pretty different characters, just like Jp!Effie and "I love to eat"!Effie.

Of course sometimes there will be misinformation (remember the Dimitri is rude because he uses the omae pronoun?), but I still find fascinating how, faced with ridiculous lolcalisations, fandom itself - aka part of the people who were supposed to be the targets of said lolcalisation - tries to "correct" and remove the unecessary edits. There are still people who dgaf about what was lolcalised from what wasn't, but even if it's just a consequence of the lolcalisation growing more and more unrestrained/unchained to the source material - it makes fandom engagment all the more precious and fascinating.

Like, you have real people basically combing the script and/or providing a translation - for free! - to help other fans, when some lolcalisers are paid to... edit and "lolcalise" the script some fans want to see.

And so, we're back to square 1 : who is the targeted audience of Funi's Shinchan or FE Treehouse?

The players/watchers?

FE Fates was, I suppose, ultimately lolcalised for a """western"" audience", aka an US one because no one gives a fuck about the rest of the world - and yet, assuming a majority of fans are from the US, said lolcalisation was mocked/ridiculed and ultimateld decried by part of that audience from who the game was lolcalised.

Some people (I've seen a redshit post about it today!) claim the lolcalised changed aren't made for the audience, but, much like a fanfiction, those changed weren't made to be more palatable to an audience, but were made for themselves - aka to push some agenda (see redshit's theory about funi pushing a "woke" agenda in their dubs and subs when it doesn't exist in the og scripts).

And to be fair, with FE16's US exclusive "Church BaD and controls the world!!!" + "Dimtri is not a man but a monster!", idk what Treehouse was trying to do, push their "organised religions BaD" agenda and "Supreme Leader is right so let's make her opponents BaD to highlight how right she is" bias? - but I can't help but wonder if it was indeed the case, and given how Pat sucked as a voice director, if the localised!version wasn't just some sort of trolley Treehouse used to convey their ideas, regardless of what the game wanted to say.

I mean, it's still fascinating, to this day, nearly 5 years after the release of the game, that we still find "Treehouse exclusive" lines, or how FEH who's still running, also has "Treehouse exclusive" lines for Fodlan characters that absolutely don't match the non global, aka, jp lines, let them be written or spoken - putting on the tinfoil hat, I wonder if Treehouse or whoever oversees the localisation isn't deadly afraid that if they don't pay extreme attention and/or rewrite anything related to Fodlan, global!players will realise that they were fed "Pat's Fire Emblem Treehouse", instead of FE16, thus takes extra care to comb and/or rewritte every line/dialogue that could make a global player think twice and note that this thing they're reading/hearing of in FEH (or even Engage!! See Dimitri's lolcalised line about people of different races living together!) is completely different from "Pat's Fire Emblem Treehouse".

Tl;Dr because I ranted and disgressed and idk where am I anymore with this post lol :

I think there's a difference between fandom's transformative works - done for fun, as a hobby! - and some lolcaliser's transformative works - they're paid for that and aren't supposed to bring a fanfiction to the audience, at least not as localisers ; so I wouldn't blame "fandom" for the fuckery that happened (Funi's shinchan is more than 17 years old!) and is sadly still happening.

On the contrary, given how fandom (at least some part of it) actively refuses to accept the lolcalised "fanfiction" - to the point of doing translation work! - I think fandom is the reason why this discourse is happening.

[sepublic]

AI “artists” remind me of that scene from Jurassic Park where Jeff Goldblum goes on a whole rant about how they stood on the shoulders of geniuses and contributed nothing, taking people’s honest work and slapping a label on it to sell and declare as progress.

[infinitystation]

it's so funny looking at hbomberguy hate tweets right now. find one and go check the bio, GUARANTEE they are right-wing