#personally i do like when gay people play gay characters

[sometimesraven]

Also you can not support porn while recognising its legality is important to the lives and safety of not only sex workers but also trafficking and revenge porn victims.

Also also if you think *all* porn is racist misogynistic and paedophillic I'm going to kindly ask you to stop browsing the frontpage of Pornhub bc wym??? Did you forget there are thousands of amateur porn artists who are trans, female, PoC, etc and work completely off their own back? Porn made by queer people for queer people? Porn made by women for women? Porn made by gay men for gay men? It exists in abundance and will continue to do so whether it's legal or not.

Not to mention that things like sending erotic imagery of yourself to your consenting life partner who you are married to also comes under the definition of porn. And where does it stop? Written, drawn or animated media can be porn. Someone taking a lewd or suggestive selfie could be considered porn. We've already seen in the UK that they didn't stop at just banning the production of porn, they then banned specific kinks from even being consumed on the basis of it being "grossly offensive, disgusting, or otherwise of an obscene character". As in, anything the government decided was gross. So that means not just BDSM, but also shit like piss play.

When you allow the illegality of things based on it being "obscene" or "disgusting", that gives the government power to ban literally anything they want as long as they have a good enough argument that it's gross. Like I dunno, homosexuality?

Oh, look at that. Element 3b in the list of "obscene" porn categories:

"An act which results in or is likely to result in serious injury to a person’s anus, breast or genitals"

That means under this particular law (Section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 for those interested) anyone who engages in anal sex could reasonably be prosecuted for it. Which would disproportionately affect gay men and other queer people.

Now fortunately those laws were relaxed in 2019 and as it's down to individual judges what counts, these persecutions largely didn't happen (that we know of). But if porn were outright illegal the public sense of what is and isn't "acceptable" would change. Obviously it would, you want that right?

Except once the patriarchal systems can't blame porn for the high number of rape cases and sexual hate crimes, but the number of cases doesn't reduce or even increases (given that now even consenting women would be persecuted under anti-pornography laws), what would they then turn to?

In the UK we have a habit of banning things outright rather than addressing the root cause of the issues stemming from those things. We see it with, for example, modes of transport we decide are "a nuisance". A new mode of personal transport gets invented (electric bicycles, hoverboards, etc) and incidents happen because of people using them in the street. Instead of realising the infrastructure is lacking and forcing people using these modes of transport to use them on the sidewalk, we banned the use of them on the sidewalk. Since using them on the roads isn't safe, most people stop using them. Then another invention comes around, rinse, repeat.

This is relevant because if porn is illegal it's not going to be tackling the root of issues in the porn industry -- that is: sexism, transphobia, racism and paedophilia. Those are societal issues which, as @absolxguardian aptly pointed out, are present in all media. So naturally as rape and sexual hate crimes doesn't decrease, the UK's previous actions show that they would most likely then turn to the aforementioned "obscene" sexual acts. Which has actually happened to a point -- our assault and sexual violence laws do not recognise consent as a defense. It specifically states that "a person cannot consent to actual bodily harm". Actual Bodily Harm as a legal term in the UK is literally anything that causes pain or discomfort, which has driven most BDSM clubs and practitioners underground.

This was done to protect women against the defense of consent in rape and assault cases, which sounds reasonable until you realise a) adults consent to pain/discomfort literally all the time, it's called tattoos and piercings and fucking gyno. b) literally anyone could mark another person during sex by accident. If someone were assaulting you, might you not claw, bite and punch your way out of it? What happens to you then, if the person who did it claims consent and didn't leave a mark on you? What if you were in an abusive relationship and your partner consented to or even coerced you into marking them during sex? That person then has grounds to press legal charges against you if you try to leave them or otherwise piss them off.

Not to mention that again, this assumes it's "rough sex" that's enabling this kind of defense, and not the judge and jury who decides these people are innocent and the rape culture that emboldens them.

And who is disproportionately affected by this kind of law? I'll give you three guesses.

Anti Sadomasochism and "obscene" sex laws have been tied to homophobia for about as long as they've existed. In the 80s there was a nationwide investigation that led to many gay men being interrogated and persecuted for sadomasochism. Coincidentally (/sarcasm) Section 28 was passed in 1988, and although homosexuality itself was partially "decriminalised", in 1989 consensual gay sex made up a huge percentage of the persecutions under "gross indecency".

All of that to say that finding something gross, or shocking is never grounds to legally censor it.

But maybe you don't care about gay men. Maybe you don't care about BDSM practitioners or other kinksters. You still want to see it all banned.

Imagine, then, a scenario where all of this happens but it's not gay people or BDSM they turn their sights to. Imagine they ban porn for all the "right" reasons. Let's say they, just as you do @progressofthepilgrim, cite misogyny as the main problem with porn and ban it for that reason.

Porn goes away. Misogyny does not. They then turn to the statistics to figure out what else is perpetuating sexual violence because again, they are misogynists pretending to be protecting women, so they will never look at themselves or the society they perpetuate first. They will look for some other perpetrator.

What's to stop them turning to a racial or religious minority? There are already stereotypes that black people are disproportionately violent, what's to stop the government going and raiding their houses and interrogating them about their sex lives the way they did with the gays?

Or, to put this specifically in the lense of your personal interests: what if they turned to the Church? You're pentecostal, I see by your bio, and I know this is a Protestant denomination, so perhaps you believe the Catholic Church should also be banned for its large number of sexual assault and paedophilia cases that never seem to end? For its misogynist and sexist denominations that demand women be subservient?

What, then, if I told you that sexual assault is also prevelant in the Protestant churches? As Protestant churches outnumber Catholic ones, it would be easy for them to cover it up for longer. Do we then ban Protestants too despite y'all being outwardly more progressive? Where does it end? Do you really trust your government or mine to uphold these laws fairly? After everything they've already done to women and minorities?

I'm not telling you to like porn. Or even to support sex workers ideologically. Fuck, I hate most mainstream porn, I agree the mass-produced frontpage stuff is fucking disgusting in any category.

But you have to understand that the outright legal ban of sexual expression cannot ever be a good thing in the society we live in. You can believe porn is inherently evil, whatever, that's your right as a person with opinions. But at some point you have to stop patching up cracks and notice the huge, gaping hole at the top of them. Problematic porn is a small symptom of an enourmous problem and banning it will only give that problem more room to grow. The patriarchal and colonial powers that be want people like us to be focused so much on the easy to hate so they can keep getting away with it themselves. They want you to focus on the fruitflies so that you never have time to throw out the rotten fruit.

Puritanism is getting worse around the globe and conservatives and fascists will absolutely be first going harder against porn, then use that against queer people. You HAVE to realise this and oppose anti porn measures and laws, be in solidarity with sex workers, and listen to them when they call this shit out. It's going to be vitally important.

[unknown-cold]

Omg that's true!!

I'm so tired of these people saying Vi and Caitlyn's relationship is toxic, I mean literally the same thing she said Jinx and her relationship with Ekko wasn't good either and Jayce and Viktor too.

It is natural for problems and disagreements to occur in relationships, but it is not natural to think that a relationship will be peaceful and good all the time. These things only exist in Disney movies.

But apart from all that. Seriously guys hating on Vi or Caitlyn or both is way over the top. Like let's just imagine JUST IMAGINE, if Vi were male, the narrative surrounding her actions and character would change dramatically. She would likely be hailed as a "brother hero," a model of loyalty and kindness despite impossible circumstances. Her trauma, in prison, losing Vander, failing to save Jinx, and so on, would be sympathized with as a testament to her strength and determination.

Her status as the “bad sister” is undoubtedly tied to gender expectations. Women, especially older sisters, are often burdened with the role of caregiver, and are expected to be endlessly compassionate and self-sacrificing. Vi’s moments of anger, guilt, and mistakes, however, conflict with societal stereotypes of women as the natural “fixers” of emotional and familial conflicts. The fact that Vi is pigeonholed as the “bad sister” while Jinx is often seen as the tragic victim reflects deeper gender biases. Vi’s traumas and emotional wounds are ignored or minimized because she is expected to be the “strong one,” while Jinx is given sympathy and a more nuanced lens because her messiness and vulnerability fit into certain stereotypes of women who are broken or in need of saving.

It’s a frustrating double standard, and it underscores just how progressive Arcane is by refusing to fully give into those tropes. Vi’s character still shines as someone strong, flawed, and deeply human, but the criticisms she faces highlight how society treats female characters with such biases.

The misogyny is REAL and don’t think for a second that other women aren’t fully participating in that also. The amount of shit Vi gets for temporarily joining the Enforcers with Caitlyn to stop Jinx is insane. A male Vi would have been seen as a TORTURED HERO for joining up with the EVIL FORCES that took his parents away all so he could do HERO THINGS. But Vi does it? “Wah wah she joined the COPS she’s A TRAITOR THE REAL VI WOULD NEVER”. Like. Watch the show, my friends, and you will see she did what she thought was best and it was a very complex and very emotional decision for her; she hated every second of that uniform. But no, people shit on Vi and then complain like any of them could write a better show. Ugh.

And nobody would have hated a male Vi for having his love scene. Nobody. In fact, it would have been EXPECTED, but because Vi’s a woman, and a lesbian expressing her big gay love for her gorgeous gay lover, some people refuse to see her humanity and her growth as a person in that moment. I'm so tired

And the argument that we hate them because they did bad things is not true, I have seen people hate Caitlyn just because she is lesbian and one of them said if she was a straight woman I would have accepted her character on the show. Seriously this is someone who takes his criticism seriously, he forgot the story and everything in the show and focused on whether the characters are gay or straight or worse when I saw a comment from someone saying why are the main characters on the show female characters? Like is this an idiot or is he drug or what exactly? I think we should also ask, why do men always take the lead roles and when they are evil they are better, and if they are good they are also better, but if a woman comes along who is evil or wants to be evil or does just one mistake everyone hates her and she is the worst person in the world, but men are the only ones who deserve to play the role of evil and do bad things and we will sympathize with them and love them. THIS IS CRAZY!!

To understand what I'm saying more, compare Viktor's character and Caitlyn's character and you will see that Caitlyn was the character who was criticized the most even though she didn't kill anyone innocent and in the end she tried to fix things, while Viktor tried to kill all the people of Piltover and Zaun and didn't care about anyone, even his friend's pleas, he didn't care about them and Viktor thought that this was the solution but to end the conflicts between the two cities. But is there anyone who criticizes this, is there anyone who says that this is a bad act, of course not, yes you will see some people justifying it, as they did with Silco, the person who killed an entire family for control and drowned all of Zaun with shimmer and made the children work in dangerous factories, and there is not a single criticism, and people defend him even after Jinx's condition worsened, no they say that he is better than Caitlyn, my god like what the fuck!?

Then they tell you we don't hate women we don't hate gays or lesbians, just shut the fuck up, everything is clear, Arcane revealed to us that there are still people who are fanatic and traditional to the extreme who still want to see a man as the hero of the story and that all people and women should respect him even if he is evil and cruel he is always better than this bullshit, Arcane proved to us that it is possible for both sexes to appear in an excellent, strong and realistic way without insulting or belittling the other because these things are not useful and will not help in telling the story in any way.

Quick note I don't hate Jinx or Viktor and many of you who follow me know that I love Viktor very much but I will not deny the bad things he did and I am also really tired of the hypocrisy of some people and their constant criticism of other characters and characters. Just bc they say like these characters

Like I don't like Silco but have you ever seen me post every day criticizing Silco and Silco fans all the time or go to Silco fans and tell them if you like Silco then you support child labor and the drug trade and blah blah. Like they do with Caitlyn fans when one of them says he likes Caitlyn they accuse him of supporting collective punishment and corrupt governments and police brutality just because he likes a fictional character. I've never seen such stupidity and backwardness and bullshit in my life, just because I like a fictional character you think I will act like her in real life?? These people need to grow up seriously or find a job

[formerplumi]

USED A SUA IMG IN ONE OF YOUR BATFAM POST imagine a luka reader. the family desperate to reach you and due to lack of memories of what You were like since they all neglected you, started just making shit up about you. yes, of course youre angelic, kind and so darling to them! youd never hurt a fly and your soul is such a forgiving one... until they look you up online properly and see you gay baiting someone to get them shot

- prologue

PAUSE anon you cooked, omg. (for those who don't know who luka is i've put a very small summary of his character right at the end.)

honestly i've just been using sua as a poster girl, but a reader with luka's characteristics is so interesting... after being relocated from your "father's" underground business dealings to gotham to live with your real family, it'd be natural to stay reclusive because of the change in atmosphere.

i imagine a luka-ish reader would try to socialise more with the family than the current insert, but their attempts would be unmeaningly unsettling. an innate feeling would rise in the batfam that didn't make them dislike you, per say, just unintentionally avoid you.

you can't be much bothered with it, since even in your previous living conditions, there'd be people who liked you, and people who didn't. you knew how to work around it

so you redirect your focus. you'd been treated like an adult as you were being raised, so you had your goals and motivations figured out at this age already. for a handful of years in the manor, you'd work to keep up the fame you'd built up with your old "father", fame that slightly dissolved after your sudden disappearance from the screens; your escape from the industry.

eventually, when you decide to move out to perhaps further your prospects and influence, there's a buzz in the media at the sudden reappearance of the angle-voiced child star who was taken off the big screens after their "father" got involved with court dealings.

this is probably what eventually alerts the family to your absence in the manor, and in the shame that they couldn't notice it without the help of a third party, they scrounge around in their memory for good exchanges with you. just to have some semblance of the kid who wandered around aimlessly in the house. the kid they shooed away without ever actually shooing them away.

when they find nothing; they try to make stuff up. "angle-voiced child star", so you must've been soft-spoken, sympathetic, angelic person too, right? yeah, yeah you must've been a darling... how could they be so ignorant of you?

their shame somewhat morphs their unease at your old attempts to talk to them, into a shy child's timid want to talk to a new family in a new area, without any help whatsoever.

oh you poor, poor little kid.

i imagine it wouldn't be too difficult for them to find content of you, since your net-presence sky-rocketed after returning to the music industry. but ohh just imagine their surprise when they get access to an underground website streaming some sick stage-show human trafficking project, and see you there?? whatever are you there for? doesn't your fame generate a fortune? what in the world would you need to be on this... show for?

idk how the "getting them shot" thing could play into any other place other than a dark-web game show tbh. maybe they don't initially recognise that the videos up there are for such a thing, only after seeing you walk away from an applauding audience, get surprised by the sound of a shot and the image of your opponent lying dead on the stage ground, do they bother to investigate the ordeal. but this time, as vigilantes, and not failed family.

they'll just... save you along the way, yeah? 'save' you.

luka is a character from a series called alien stage, and you can find the episodes uploaded on youtube by vivinos. luka's established as a well known, famous character within the alien stage 'tournament', who's participated in the whole thing before, and has a significant amount of aliens/audience rooting for him.

his character on it's own looks beautiful, and is dubbed "prince" by his fans, but on his first appearance in round 5, he is portrayed as somewhat unfeeling and manipulative.

better characterisation is provided on alien stage's official accounts, with comics and patreon uploads. the "father" i refer to in the above imagine is referring to luka's alien owner.

[hotvintagepoll]

Dwight Frye (Dracula, Frankenstein)—he's my babygirl please please please please please i want to baby bird feed him flies and spiders and pick him up and make glitter edits of him and give him gross forehead kisses like he's my cat. in dracula he was so incredibly creepy that he was typecast as madmen for the rest of his life and he fucking hated it but by god if he didn't do a fantastic job. he steals the show every time he's up on screen just because he's so fucking deranged. i need him

Thelma Ritter (Rear Window, All About Eve)—So little! Barely 5 feet tall! So scrungly! Working class accent and regular person looks constantly surrounded by gorgeous people! Snarky as hell!

This is round 3 of the contest. All other polls in this bracket can be found here. If you’re confused on what a scrungle is, or any of the rules of the contest, click here.

[additional submitted propaganda + scrungly videos under the cut]

Dwight:

He absolutely owns the entirety of Dracula (1931). Compared to the novel, his part is massively expanded and it's clear why. He's magnetically unhinged and his facial expressions are pure scrungle. And in Frankenstein, he begins the archetype of Frankenstein's assistant even if the character's name there is Fritz. He'd still go on to play other scrungly guys in later Frankenstein movies. But he's kinda the archetypal and progenitor of the scrungly lil guy. The scrungliest guy ever to scrungle. He's pretty much the blueprint for every mad scientist's assistant, and he's the best part of every movie he's in. He manages to make you feel sorry for the creepy little dudes, even when he's eating spiders and crawling across the floor. [editor's note: content warning for the "hunchback" stereotype and "madness" in the clips below]the "Rats" soliloquy:

I saw him in Dracula and frankly he has me bewitched. I could watch him do his silly routine forever. The gay tension with Bela Lugosi onscreen was frankly unparalleled. Kirk and Spock levels. I am chewing on the furniture

Played the weirdo little guy in Dracula AND the weirdo little guy in Frankenstein in the same year. Iconic.

The scrungles to end all scrungles! There's a reason why this man codified the manic vampire's familiar and the hunchbacked lab assistant for generations, because by God can this man be feral and scrungly: Whether he's soliloquizing about rats as Renfield, scurrying around Frankenstein's lab like a spider as Fritz, or skulking around dark alleys (and scaring the hell out of little baby me) waiting for a fresh heart to steal as Karl, if you want a scrungly little man for your classic film, Dwight Frye is your man. He has the range to play varying kinds of scrungle, with his wide eyes, his manic smiles, his soft, breathy voice, he is truly an undisputed scrungle master.

I honestly think it would be a crime to ignore Dwight Frye's scrungle factor. He played two of the prototypical creepy little henchman as Dracula's lackey Renfield and Dr. Frankenstein's hunchback servant Fritz, and I believe that his excellence in these roles absolutely shaped the future character tropes of the "Igor" type as much as Bela Lugosi and Boris Karloff shaped the future understanding of Dracula and Frankenstein's monster. He's got it all from the looks, to the manic energy, to the crazed laugh, I'm telling you right now that I think he could win the entire tournament.

Thelma:

she wants to kill santa claus so bad for the first half of this clip. "thats fine. thats just dandy. mama wants to..thank santa claus too."

[battlefrankies]

saw ur tags, wanted to give some context because you do bring up some interesting points!

newkama as a term is a combination of okama (a reclaimed pejorative that refers to drag queens/transvestites, who don't always identify as women) and newhalf (a term some trans women celebrities used to refer to themselves in the 90s, but today i've seen most trans women prefer to just be called women) (and the word for trans people in japan today is just english loanwords, literally just 'trans' and 'transgender', so the terminology has evolved)

the newkama and especially iva-chan's impel down group see themselves not as specifically drag queens or trans women, but as people who've transcended the restrictions of gender entirely. they do tap into that campy drag aesthetic though, like you can clearly see the rocky horror influence on ivankov's designs. i think it's a mistake to try and apply concrete labels that we see constantly online to this group (and also, lgbt people in general). oda isn't on twitter reading about how gen Z kids on tiktok want to be portrayed, he's talking to real-life people he meets, but also mostly he's drawing one piece and playing gacha games.

even on momoiro island when they were trying to put sanji in a dress, i think it's important to point out that sanji agreed to that training regimen and discussed it with iva-chan in order to get stronger; he could've left at any time. imo the optics for that section weren't ideal, but it emphasizes the freedom of expression for the newkama who live on that island. there's no pressure to conform to rigid standards of femininity when they're safe and comfortable having body hair and square jaws, but they just wanna wear a frilly dress too. ivankov could (and would) physically alter anyone's body at any point they wanted, but the newkama of the kamabakka kingdom felt no need for that.

are there better ways to portray that? for sure! i'm not mad about oda imperfectly supporting the lgbt community in a time & media environment that was either dismissive or downright hostile to trans people though. it was, again, head and shoulders above pretty much any shonen that was being published at the time. personally, i like that there's such a diversity of trans experiences being depicted in the series with so much affection, to the point where each time sanji said or did anything transphobic, he'd get punished for it. you can truly tell that oda thinks it's dope as fuck that people can just trans their genders, and to me that matters more than optically perfect trans women.

giselle gewelle from bleach, for example, being a really cute trans girl who is also evil, and whose trans identity is openly insulted by a protagonist and also she dies, in 2013. oda having the newkama not just be empowered, heroic characters but also living and thriving on their own island was basically unheard of at a time when 'bury your gays' was so prevalent it's got a tvtropes page. and it's not just that these heroic characters happen to be trans, their establishment of a supportive community in impel down is the REASON luffy could be saved.

i think a lot of people criticize the trans representation in OP in bad faith without context or any intention of trying to understand the context, but i don't take them seriously. the reason we're even talking about the supportive but flawed 2009 trans rep in one piece is because OP has so much staying power and influence in the cultural consciousness. i think it's fair to be uncomfortable with aspects of it, and that speaks to how far we've come since then, which is a good thing. i think the intent of these characters & oda's stance on trans rights couldn't be more clear though.

the trans representation in one piece is phenomenal actually

[mari-lair]

hello ! i love your fics and analysis! I was wondering which tbhk ships you think will become endgame?

Anon I have the most white bread of answers but since you asked-

1 - Hananene.

Nene starts the manga by wanting a date. It doesn't matter with who, any hot guy will do. She has many infatuations but isn't in love with anyone, she just want to be loved.

Nene has a lot of small character developments in different areas throughout the manga, but her strongest and most consistent change is her increasing love for Hanako and her acceptance of it.

She is still a girl with a ton of emotions, and she finds hot people attractive BUT now she want Hanako and only Hanako. She rejects everyone she used to have a crush on, there is no doki doki's when she gets the attention of pretty people cause they aren't the boys she wants attention from anymore.

Even Teru doesn't compare to Hanako. She went on a 'date' with him and felt more excited about bragging than the actual 'date'

AND SHE DID NOT BRAG when hanako got back, she just wanted to enjoy that he's back.

I don't even know why I am going so in dept on the couple stablished since chapter 1 but since i'm already rambling: Despite everything crazy going on in the festival NENE'S BIGGEST FOCUS WAS TO CONFESS TO HANAKO. That's something she thinks more about than her own death, like girl- Hanako is her whole world. She will not get a romance with another person.

There is the question of "Will Nene survive?"

If she doesn't, she'll disappear and have no boyfriend but I bet she'll be thinking about Hanako in her death. If she finds a way to become a supernatural in a very wild narrative choice she will be able to stay with hanako in their cursed eternity forever.

In the case she lives and Hanako gets exorcised she won't move on. Aidairo loves tragedies and obsessive love, so I can't see her approaching crushes with the same whimsy after her love dies. And Aidairo would likely preffer to make her suffer in her grief and longing than give her a rebound with some random guy, cause it sure won't be Kou.

2 - Mitsukou

My personal preferences aside, it is clear they are written to have romantic implications. Kou will either die with Mitsuba (As shown in the new timeline), and stay with him in death.

Or live to have an intense homoerotic 'friendship' with him.

He legit can't get mitsuba off his head, he thinks about him more than anything during the manga and he has A LOT of problems to think about.

I can't personally picture an explicit confession but we had a lot of equivalents already. It would be weird for Aidairo to send them to the aquarium, make Kou obsessed with mitsuba (and vise verse), show that they are 'very very close' in this new timeline, keep drawing them star-struck by each other and so on without romance in the head.

Kou is also never able to put his feelings into words, like, bro that's suspicious as hell.

They always get matching art with all the couples in Aidairo's twitter arts too.

That's not queerbaiting, they may not be explicit but by the lord they are not subtle at all, there is never a single "oh Mitsuba is like a brother to me" moment, they don't undo any of the gay implications we see, they double down on it.

Kou may be bi but it sure isn't the Nene route that Aidairo is playing.

3 - Aoikane

Akane has loved Aoi since he was a little kid. Waaaaaaay before he got a clock keeper contract.

He saw that Aoi cared so much about his opinion that she'd break out of her cold persona and burst into tears at the idea of being hated, and he locked in for life.

They are the codependent childhood friends troupe, the "I know you better than anyone" troupe, the "you are a part of my life I can't live without" troupe and they both love each other from the very start of the manga, not showing romantic interest in anyone else.

Nothing has made Akane change his mind about being with Aoi. Not being stabbed, not being rejected many times, not facing how bad aoi is at deling with her issues head on. He'll do anything for her time and time again.

in Akane's own words:

They had many build ups and a whole arc dedicated to their developments with each other (which is a lot considering they aren't main characters and Aoi usually get no focus in this manga.)

Narratively, it wouldn't make any sense to dedicate so many chapters pointing out how much they mean to each other and slowly working through their issues only to slap another ship at the end.

And is not like Aidairo said "They had their arc let's never talk about them again!", the author went out of her way to say "Even in a world where Aoi is in an arranged marriage, she still loves Akane"

They aren't subtle.

From the matching names, to the way they both crumble when they are separated from one another and keep thinking about marriage, they are very devoted. They have already explicitly confessed to the audience that they are in love with each other.

They'll either stay together forever or they'll die together.

[omegawizardposting]

"A cishet actor playing a queer character well enough means they have queerness in their hearts. uwu"

I am so glad I'm not queer. Y'all have some real wild people in y'all's community. Just say you think it's fine for cishet actors to play fags and go. You do not have to justify that opinion with whatever the fuck it is I was just forced to read with my own two gay eyes.

[aeimygdala]

I'mm more awake now, so:

YES, EXACTLY, TO BOTH. Describing how accurately it reflects every other queerbaiting with male characters really drives it home. For some reason, I've also been thinking about the kids shows Victorious and Sam and Cat queerbaiting, too. It wasn't until reviewing it as an adult that I realized they knew full well that their audiences cared and were invested in these female relationships as romantic. They knew what they were doing, and that's really what defines queerbaiting.

It's like, 20years ago the WWDITS writers would've faced a LOT of backlash for so many sex jokes about people being bisexual simply bc being LGBTQ was still just being treated as something so ugly and wrong in the 2000s, even in a rated R show. And they have more freedom Now to make jokes about gay sex without the joke relying on disgust or other homophobic drivel. And I will say wholeheartedly that I think Guillermo being gay was handled quite nicely and earnestly! Like, genuinely!

... But note how that was done After they got a bunch of articles and realized a bunch of LGBTQ fans were invested because it seemed like "Oh, the showrunners acknowledge we exist and don't see us as subhuman, so maybe they'll do more with us" and because an actually gay man, a member of our community, was playing a major role and had his thoughts about his character's feelings

But is it really the queer representation we want when besides Guillermo, it's just stock variety "depraved/promiscuous bisexuality"? They got all this credit and hype for being so "queer-friendly" long before they confirmed Guillermo was gay Because of those jokes.

it's not groundbreaking just bc they're happy to say "yeah these people aren't all washboard straight," and I think too many people thought it was because we'd been directly lead to believe there'd be romantic payoff with two of the main male characters. That WOULD'VE meant something. Like it would've meant something in every fucking other show that queerbaited two main characters like this. This one really stings because the main Changes and Development happen regarding Guillermo and Nandor's relationship!

Now we know all of that stuff we saw as rep was just jokes about how funny it is when people are sexually free and don't understand or care about modern day homophobia. That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, just kinda obnoxious, but it really is an ugly look when they've spent this long shipbaiting.

Men being in complicated but very openly gay relationships just doesn't suit the show's "Sense Of Humor" but Nadja and Lazlo's marriage always gets to be heartwarming. and there got to be plenty of nice moments of growth.

The writers really took nothing they wrote seriously when they didn't want to, which is also what really killed the show this final season. WE'RE the fools for expecting something serious and better from the "vampires are out of touch and insane" show because obviously that's all it ever was, to them, unless they wanted otherwise, and they didn't when it came to this. But they'd be happy to bait us with whatever made us watch it. They knew what they were doing, and they knew they didn't respect the audience and the LGBTQ following the show had garnered.

So, still queerbaiting. Because they mostly treated LGBTQ people as a marketable audience and a subject of half their sex jokes (specifically, mostly bisexuals.) Or they saw every person hoping for Guillermo and Nandor to get together as an obnoxious person unable to see or enjoy the show past shipping, which, like, I'm the first person to say that people NEED to be able to enjoy media without fixating on shipping, but people picking up what they're Deliberately putting down Isn't That. People Caring and following the writing of a thing they're watching isn't That.

And I don't really enjoy fanfics, I just wanted to see what felt like a really messy Rollercoaster of a relationship and how it changes and improves between two lead mlm and pay off in a show that isn't explicitly about gay romance, because actually seeing that in media matters. It means LGBTQ people aren't jokes!

Honestly, I would've been irritated but accepted it ending the way it did if they hadn't put the whole hypnosis ending thing. It would've been one last annoying wink at the camera with no Canon payoff, but it wouldn't have been the writers showing their asses and mocking everyone who wanted to see the two together, telling us what we wanted was a different show. It's just so mean spirited.

I'm still glad I watched the series and Guillermo being queer really does matter a lot, but it doesn't mean they didn't know what they were doing.

I think the thing people aren't acknowledging about WWDITS is that yeah the main characters are all queer. And yet, the only established and long lasting main couple is M/F, regardless of how many jokes are made about them also being queer. im not saying bi/pan m/f rep isnt important, but it is relevant to note. most of the mentions of other characters being queer (besides Guillermo being gay) are basically "promiscuous bisexuality is funny and surprising" when you actually think about them seriously. I actually hated everything with lazlo's dad, ngl. looking back at the entire shitfest of season 6, it feels like everyone gives its "representation" too much credit when defending its shipbaiting. like you understand this was intentional, and it's obvious the intent was never to actually deliver on queer relationships long term, even if it gives us queer characters? like, it's cool that you have queer characters, but are you doing to deliver on what you've been implying regarding them?

we get heartwarming moment after heartwarming moment with Lazlo and Nadja. idk I don't think it's Evil but I think a lot.of us collectively gave it too much credit for how much it actually gave a shit. it's a sitcom, and it made it soo clear, and we're pissed at realizing it.

idk, but looking back, a lot of shipbaiting and jokes reslly feel kind of mean-spirited and mocking. like we know you CAN write meaningful relationships, everything with nandor and Guillermo this season was leading up to the extreme improvement in their relationship and interactions, soooo.

I think people who are pissed really deserve to be bc it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth bc you KNOW. the shipbaiting was deliberate. n we'd rather be funny here than actually deliver on queer relationships and happiness. and it's always been that way, and that isn't EVIL or anything , I guess, and it's fine, but it sucks that I gave it too much credit thinking otherwise because I want happy m/m relationship rep or something lol

feels like a slap in the face to people who just wanted something nice!!! I'm not a shipper, I don't exist in the wwdits Fandom, I'm just a queer fan that was eagerly hoping they'd actually have a payoff for all they were doing!!

[silver-horse]

fascinating that the biphobes, who say that BG3 companions are not accurate as bisexuals/pansexuals, literally haven’t played the game!! they don’t know the characters or who they flirt with and choose to sleep with.

a textpost said that everyone is allowed to play the game as they want and romance characters with a character of any gender and one person commented that OP is a homophobe and Astarion “would be the biggest gay if not for making everyone playersexual.” I clicked on the username and they have a post stating “will buy that game just to play as the furry albino elf and have homophobes watch him get fucked by every dude” ok. sounds fun, I will do the same, I’ll simply also fuck every women. but no.when not everyone is playersexual, 80% of them just end up straight. the remainder mostly still bi and they would deny the bisexuality of those few as well. why do they feel so comfortable attacking bisexuality that they will even comment on bi characters when they are unfamiliar with a given piece of fiction

[ruvviks]

made the realization my vampire story would work best as a video game and now i can't stop thinking about it

[infizero]

every time i so much as think about that scene where light looks at porn magazines while scowling i go into hysterics its genuinely the funniest thing i've ever seen

[thegreatestheaver]

Conventional nightmares are scary but I think it’s the unrealistic ones that are the most scary

[narrativedoomed]

i havent seen any episodes since 2x3 but i think its SO interesting that the fandom will continuously say ben has no power and that no one cares hes an adult but the moment he doesnt step in to help deliver a baby its suddenly "hes annoying" and "you said yourself youre the adult step it up"

[aromanticasterisms]

pardo [handshake] klein

wtf why did they replace you with a joke charact--oh so it wasn’t you [tosses aside a brick]

[ujuro]

Reading the comments on a yaoi on a manga piracy site is a great way to get insight into the terrible ways kids view relationships I must say (and also how much everyone shits on any female character) (and also how badly kids are at picking up on obvious foreshadowing) (but those are different things)

[lunarharp]

more phoenix wright situations