#passing privilege

[penig]

So there's very little, if any point, either agonizing or rejoicing about casting Skarsgaard as Murderbot because execution is everything and it could be every bit as bad as some people expect or it could be as good as other people expect or it could be a real mixed bag and there's nothing we can do about it, anyway. We won't know what we think about it till we watch it, but people like making discourse in a vacuum and here we are.

I totally get that there's something simultaneously inevitable and revolting about the idea of a character, canonically extremely oppressed in a world in which everyone whose skin color is described is more or less brown, being played by a member of the least oppressed population demographic with which most of us are familiar. My initial reaction was not great, either.

But every time I see someone say: "Murderbot is not a cis white man!" I can't help thinking: "No, it's not. But in the TV show, it looks like one."

Look, I'm bisexual. And cis. And monogamous. The person I married happened to also be bisexual and cis. We didn't stop being bisexual when we married each other, but when we're together, we don't look queer. We look heterosexual. Which means, we get a lot of heteronormative privilege we don't ask for and I can see why more visibly queer people might resent that. But you know what happens when we try to reject that privilege? People both straight and queer look us dead in the eye and tell us that we're not really queer.

And that sucks.

Ask any light-skinned black person capable of passing for white, any Jew being told that it's okay to commit terrorist acts toward them because they're really white, any queer in any closet, any SecUnit getting a job as security consultant believing that if its soft, grateful clients didn't think it was an augmented human they wouldn't like it so much.

It's not a good idea to rate things hierarchically. Particularly not oppressions. Every person's oppression is unique, and some are more fatal than others but they're all uniquely awful. Knowing that you're not what you're passing as and that the only way to gain access to certain things that should be available to anybody is to deny part of yourself is pretty bad; especially if failure to pass properly is likely to get you lynched. Or stripped for parts and recycled.

Murderbot doesn't want to be a cis white augmented human male. It doesn't like how it feels to be treated as one. It wants to be itself. Even though being treated as itself has always meant being treated badly, and it doesn't like that either. It isolates itself a lot in environments where it has to pass as an augmented human, to minimize the time it spends maintaining its false face.

Consider what it says when contemplating what name to put in the FeedID that Senior Indah insists upon, in Fugitive Telemetry:

I could use the local feed address that was hard coded into my neural interfaces. it wasn't my real name, but it was what the systems I interfaced with called me. If I used it, the humans and augmented humans I encountered would think of me as a bot. Or I could use the name Rin. I liked it, and there were some humans outside the Corporation Rim who thought it was actually my name. I could use it, and the humans on the Station wouldn't have to think about what I was...I posted a feed ID with the name SecUnit, gender = not applicable, and no other information.

It could have an easier life and make the people around it more comfortable if it compromised on presenting itself as itself, whole entire. But it doesn't want to claim that easier life. It's not worth it.

Maybe that'll come across in the show and maybe it won't and maybe whether it comes across or not will depend as much on the viewer as on what appears on the screen. We won't know till we see it.

Till then, I'm not ready to write it off.

[our-queer-experience]

Gay trans autistic man on "passing privilege"

I work in a stereotypically masculine environment due to my being a lot more comfortable with machinery than people, I'm generally not too expressive and quiet, though I can mask enough to seem friendly, so people talk to me a lot and open up more than I would like. So I have to spend a lot of time quietly listening to people that tell me how my people don't deserve rights, or shouldn't exist.

In many contexts, I do not pass. I transitioned later in life so I look small and haven't gotten all the benefits I could, plus when I'm out of uniform I am rather androgynous in my expression, but in those contained contexts I pass, in great part because average people have no idea people like me exist (both functional on the spectrum, and ftm). I cannot say I feel safe just because it's not immediately obvious to them I am queer. I cannot say it feels like privilege to have to suppress yourself entirely and be unable to have any meaningful conversation or connection. It also goes against my every fiber to lie, so I cannot pretend to have a beard wife or girlfriend when I am with a man, and I have to hide it.

I sincerely doubt "passing privilege" is a real thing. We are all oppressed and in danger the moment they get a whiff of our existence. I am not less oppressed because I am able to avoid violence by not being myself. There's too many of us having to compromise what we are to survive to have stupid discourse on who is more oppressed.

thank you for sharing!

[honeylemony]

Nothing puts online discourse into perspective more than the experience of walking past protestors into my local pride yesterday.

My bi sister and her husband arrived before us and walked in together. They weren't approached or harassed.

Myself (lesbian) and the girl I'm dating walked in together with an extremely opposite experience. I'm extremely thankful for the security volunteers that eventually made the picketers relocate to outside the park.

No one cares that you're at pride with your different sex partner. But you cannot in any way say that you don't experience the world differently if your relationship is perceived as straight. You are offered protections and privileges that visibly gay and trans people are not.

[boobexplosion]

it's nice to pass as a cis guy at my job when the trans topic comes up with my coworkers. we both will agree that they are the gender they say they are, we agree it's so ridiculous how people get so upset over them, we talk about how people deserve respect. it's nice to know that when people think youre cis, there's allies out there who think theyre talking to another cis person but theyre being kind and respectful talking about us, and that they love us. :) this has happened with over half a dozen coworkers from three different jobs. there are cis people who really do care.

[korrasera]

Important Notes on Privilege

And since I'm talking about privilege now, I think it's important to go over some nuances of privilege that can be easily misunderstood.

People can benefit from the effects of privilege regardless of their identity. This is not the same as saying they have privilege.

Privilege is not a benefit that people receive. It's a tendency for society to give people with that identity more benefits than other people.

Privilege is an overloaded term. It means too much to be easy to use. It's very useful to break it down in terms of empowerment and vulnerability.

When someone has privilege, they are empowered and made less vulnerable. White people can find it easier to get a home loan. Straight people doesn't have to worry about their marriages being outlawed.

When someone does not have privilege, they are disempowered and made more vulnerable. A woman has a harder time getting a job. Black people are policed at much higher rates than white people.

Last, privilege is not a condemnation. Having privilege does not make you a bad person. It's just a way for us to look at how society is structure so we can figure out how to structure it in a better way.

Again, privilege is not a condemnation. Having it doesn't make you a bad person. It's okay to talk about the ways in which society makes it easier or harder for people based on who they are.

Finally, something more complex than I can relate in a simple point:

Take care if you're going to talk about concepts like passing privilege or the benefit of privilege, because they're often used to invalidate people's identities.

The reason passing privilege isn't really a thing is the same reason that benefiting from privilege isn't the same as actually having privilege. Any benefit you might see is conditional on your appearance and you are still subject to the same vulnerability. You're still a target even it they can't see you.

I hope this helps you avoid some of the common misconceptions of what privilege is and how it works.

[friday411]

This is the best essay on the concept of “passing privilege” I’ve ever read.

Credit: @pet_foolery

[mohntilyet]

caterina's datamined character description calling her korean-italian and early lucanis designs having him look east asian . i'll just do everything myself i guess

assorted thoughts: caterina is fully 'korean' or whatever the thedas equivalent would be in this design, and clawed her way to the top of the crow food chain after years of work. their armor is something caterina forcibly incorporated to distinguish house dellamorte from the other crows, and a symbol of their status because they get it custom made or imported. of course race-equivalents do not really exist in thedas or this world but i also will never forget how gaider just implied (east) asian people don't exist in thedas because it just so happens that there are no asians on the continent of thedas (guy who forgot about boats) . explode and die. there's not the same kind of discrimination as exists irl ofc (and the dellamortes are actually treated fine, much better than a mage or elf) but a level of xenophobia against foreigners from a different continent. illario looks the least like her, and passes for being fully antivan, which changes how he is recieved by the other crows.

and sorry if the korean is bad please actually let me know if it's horribly translated i relied on google translate . if you are one of ten asian dragon age fans feel free to talk to me at any given moment.

[radiance1]

Danny has been reincarnated.

Which was an odd thing to realize, it wasn't even a slow one he just... snapped into it one day. One moment he was staring at a wall out of boredom the next, well, he was staring for an entirely different reason.

It was a task for his now young -he thinks around three years old?- mind to work its way through the memories, but it wasn't like he had much else to do honestly. So, what does he know?

His name is Danny, like, his actual name and not just a moniker. He was once a halfa and he already knows he's going to be missing invisibility and intangibility. He, well, died. For like, a second time which actually makes sense because reincarnation-

Anyways.

He was a clone of two people from this thing called the Justice League which, weird name but probably some government or activist group. Wonder Woman and Superman. Which were pretty weird names to name your kids but eh.

He doesn't really remember much besides that from this life, or the one from before but he's an adult! He'll figure things out once he gets out of this containment tube thing.

Did he mention he was in a test tube? He's a tube baby now. He thinks? Or maybe it's more like he's being contained.

Whatever.

So he breaks out. Thank you apparent superstrength that he has no idea why he has but he's not going to complain! He then wandered around all of the other test tubes, able to remember just enough of English to see that yea, they're dead.

He probably was too, before he had memories zapped into him. Or a vegetable.

He then finds this really big container, checks it out, then opens it because the clone inside isn't dead!

'Project Match' it said. He'll just call him Match.

Was he thanked for helping him? Nope. You would think that he would be thanked or at least somewhat respected for saving this guy but nope!

He was, quite literally, held up by his leg and dangled in the air. Who dangles a three-year-old?! Well, he was technically and adult but still! The next few things were a blur but after pulling off the old Fenton charm he found him and Match outside as he tried to stop him from attacking random people.

Luckily the charms and privilege of the youngest (he's assuming he's the youngest, because he's physically three) was more than enough to get through to him. Sure, the guy couldn't form words, really aggressive for literally no reason, really weird but also absolutely cool looking eyes. But he worked around the first issue by developing their own personal language from like grunts and stuff, the second he once again used his youngest privilege to boss him around and the third a pair of sunglasses easily fixed.

He just had to steer Match clear of those random S crest mark thingies. Which was a weird thing to hate but hey, he's not there to judge.

[gayhenrycreel]

how do i explain to certain trans men that being considered one of the bros does not mean they have access to something that definitionally means having systemic power over every woman and trans person. no you dont have male privilige. try arguing that again when you create a world in which trans men dont face misogyny. you cant have male privilige if you are still in a world where you are barred from abortion

[bloodanna]

Privileges are things that larger systems award you for.

Just because the situation you're in freaking sucks doesn't mean that you aren't getting privileges from it and while you don't have to be "thankful" for it: you do have to be aware of it and what it means.

Being in a room while someone is waving around a gun is a horrific scenario to be in, but that fact that you're there at all *is* a privilege.

You could survive.

You could make things better.

That responsibility can be a terrible burden, but I and many others I know wouldn't even survive crossing in front of the doorway.

To use your metaphor: the T-rex can only see movement and I have involuntarily tremors. I am going to die.

You can *choose* to not risk danger; I don't have that option.

That is a privilege.

We should be working to change that, but we have to admit it exists to start doing that work.

Honestly if there's ONE thing I wish I could get all queer people to understand is that if you're in a situation where you know everyone would treat you differently, especially to the point of it putting your life in danger, if they found out you're queer, you aren't experiencing privilege, you're in a hostage situation.

Like sorry experiencing "passing privilege" is actually just being trapped in a room with a bloodthirsty t-rex and having people tell you that you should be thankful because thier vision is based on movement and you can just stand still. It's not a privilege to be erased, to have to lie to everyone around you to stay safe-ish, to have to closet yourself because you know even a single step out of line could be the end of your entire world.

None of us should have to be thankful to stand in front of a loaded gun while the person holding it goes "haha, don't worry, I only use this on faggots, and you're not a fag....right?" Like this is not a net good and it has almost nothing in common with actually being part of a privileged group.

Anyway, Happy Pride, let's leave this shit behind.

[danielnelsen]

while i get where this comes from and it’s true to an extent, i reeeaaaally don’t like how people try to explain “trans men don’t [necessarily] have male privilege” with things like “some trans men don’t pass”.

like sure that’s the most obvious example (someone who is seen as a woman won’t have the privilege that comes with being seen a man) but you’re still acting like being a passing trans man is just a free opt-in to male privilege which is………kinda the issue.

[trixxedheart]

It is amazing how the "people that love and uplift transwomen" website will instantly fucking maul a transwoman if she even remotely insinuate that using radfem rhetoric harms trans people

[ivygorgon]

So, I get super guilty when I knee jerk clock someone and think "you look like you might walk in this circle I also walk in! 😄" But that's a call out and no good.

What I try now is: I smile and wave. If conversation may be had, I say they remind me of my old friend or they seem like someone I share a lot with. That way I don't single them out for anything in specific, I just made generic pleasant human connection.

seeing trans ppl in public is literally life giving. wish there was a normal way to express to other trans people in public that we’re family and that i love them

[matan4il]

Every single time I hear someone referring to a Jewish person as ‘white’ another little piece of my soul dies.

As a non-American Jew, the first time I ever heard Jews being referred to as white was when I was a full grown adult watching an American reality show. I FOR REAL thought they were making that shit up in order to generate buzz and get people talking about the controversy! That’s how foreign the notion was to me. Imagine my shock and horror to discover that THIS IS A COMMON MISCONCEPTION IN THE UNITED STATES.

It’s the way that referring to Jews as ‘white’ ERASES white people’s antisemitism, it erases our persecution at the hands of white people, it erases our suffering, it erases the OTHERING that Jews had suffered for CENTURIES from actual white people.

Based on what the skin tone of some Jews in a few places might afford them SO LONG AS NO ONE KNOWS THEY’RE JEWISH.

If you have to hide your real identity in order to enjoy the privileges of being perceived as white, YOU’RE NOT WHITE (this is true for Jews just like it is true for other white-passing People of Color).

White passing is not the same as white.

WHITE PASSING IS NOT THE SAME AS WHITE.

Jews are NOT white. Not a single one of us. Not even the ones who can pass as white, let alone all of the Jews who can’t.

[simonssweater]

soooo funny when your alleged other best friend nicole subtly hints to janet that y’all know it’s her in maddie’s body in front of maddie’s mom and you absolutely lose it but when pretty ex-boyfriend xavier dumps a whole ass salt shaker on the body snatcher he doesn’t get fussed at in the slightest for it

EDIT: I would like to clarify this is a silly little jokey haha just in case that’s unclear 🙏🩵

[bestworstideaever]

this was never clearer to me than when I experienced the stark difference walking around in France alone or with my mom, vs. being in public with my visibly Jewish father—it was night and day in terms of the customer service we received, people staring at us, etc.

every time I’d visit my grandparents, my meemaw would go on and on thanking god that I had my mother’s “gorgeous Irish nose,” and I thought it was just about her own deep-seated insecurities and leftover trauma from growing up in the 30’s and 40’s. my dad used to tell me stories about being called a kike and not being able to go to country clubs and certain establishments back in the 70’s, and how even as recently as 1990, the catholic church refused to co-officiate my parents wedding alongside a rabbi, or even sanction their inter-faith marriage, but that had all seemed like ancient history to me too. wasn’t it wonderful how society has evolved beyond all that now?🙃

antisemitism just wasn’t something I had ever had to deal with personally because I look more Irish at first glance. no one assumes I’m Jewish unless I mention it or wear my magen david. and whenever it did come up, it never seemed like that big a deal.

and even after that week in France with my parents, I chalked it up to being a French/European problem and believed that the US was just more enlightened that way… but after 10/7/23, I realize that I’d been living a privileged fantasy my whole life and now that that bubble has been popped, I can no longer ignore the blatant antisemitism all around me.

it’s truly shocking and disheartening, the things goyim feel comfortable saying to/in front of me when they think I’m one of them. I’ll admit to trying to be their Good Jew at first, because I genuinely do stand for the liberation of the Palestinian people, but when they kept on refusing to root out the antisemetic rhetoric and dogwhistles from their so-called “activism,” and decided that actual fucking terrorists who want me dead are their new political blorbos, I found that I couldn’t hide my disgust with them or stand to betray myself and my people like that anymore.

so now I make an effort to call out antisemitism when I see it, even when it’s spouted by people I care about, and take up more space to be Loudly Jewish than ever before. I remain a zionist in that I stand for Israel’s right to exist as much as any other nation state, and reject ignorant goyishe attempts to redefine a word and movement that does not belong to them, even as I condemn the Israeli government’s horrible kahanist policies and actions. the goyim, especially on the left, have betrayed us once again now that it’s convenient for them to do so and I can no longer allow myself to pass as one of them.

I think the important thing to note vis-a-vis Jews and whiteness is that white privilege is limited to white passing. I am far less likely to get pulled over by a white supremacist cop than a black person is. And if I do get pulled over, I am far less likely to be publically brutalized or killed.

But if a white supremacist cop catches me on a day I'm wearing a tichel or a kippah? Or if he spots the Tefilat Haderech charm on my dashboard? Or if he, you know, looks at my driver's licence and sees my name? You're kidding yourself if you think he'd let me off as easily as somebody he actually considers "white". There won't be a verbal warning. He'd throw any and every infraction he could at me.

There are Jews and people with Jewish ancestry who experience full and complete white privilege. But that requires leaving your Judaism behind. That requires a fair skin tone, a goyishe name, and often a culturally christian upbringing. It leaves no room for anybody who takes time off for Jewish holidays or refuses to work on Shabbat. It leaves no room for anybody who openly discusses their culture, faith, or ancestry.

White privilege for Jews only works until people find out we're Jewish. Often, what that means is that white privilege only works for pale-skinned Jews who have distanced themselves from being Jewish.