#omniscient reader analysis

[currently-not-studying]

Kim Dokja trying to kill his kid self is such a brutal scene. ORV is full of scenes that can break your heart but this close to the end this scene just... it just hits you. And this poor child, alone and left behind, witnessing an older version of himself only to be hated by him.

Imagine suddenly being visited by yourself from the future and that person seems to hate you, to want you gone. All the pain of trying to push through, to survive till it gets better must have been useless if the future your despises you so much

It's also a genius twist - people talk about taking care of your inner child. Of course Kim Dokja would try to kill it. He almost wouldn't be himself if he didn't. I just hope when all is finished he has time to actually come to care for it

[currently-not-studying]

for me this answer makes ORV something other than a tragedy even when it comes close to becoming one. Because the story could have concluded with people still doubting the KD that will wake up. It could have made it so much more opened ended. But it didn't. Just like OP said: they love the ship and the ship is theirs and they know it.

Also how can we even judge who someone is? Based on actions? Kim Dokja always acted for his companions, no matter how much or how little of him was left. Based on memories? We will never know the other's life, even they don't remember it perfectly. Even Kim Dokja forgot some parts of himself before deciding if he wants to share them.

The answer can be so convoluted so for ORV to just come and say "it doesn't matter. you love them. that's enough" feels perfect

thinking about the ship of theseus as a concept and how it applies to kdj. how much of yourself can you cut away before you cant be called the same person anymore. how many times can you kill yourself before there stops being enough of you to be killed. how much of yourself can you tear into pieces and throw away before the callousness with which you do it becomes a fixed apathy. how many repairs can be made to the ship of theseus before it stops being his.

honestly feel like it applies to yhk in general really well too. han sooyoung and her avatars in a literal sense since she is quite literally sectioning herself off into pieces whenever she uses the skill; yoo joonghyuk more metaphorically since we see in the 1863rd round whats basically like. the stripped to nothing recognizable ship now returned to theseus (kdj). but i feel like with kdj its just The Worst because we look at the scenarios themselves and like kdjs half performative half genuine flippant reveals of his deepest traumas and at his thinly veiled suicide attempts (sacrifices) are just. hello? i mean each one of those just guts him further and further and we see the literal actual fourth wall continue thickening to the point where (given we observe in kcoms pov) who is kim dokja? whats left after you peel back all the skins hes discarded? what makes the ship of theseus the ship of theseus?

and then you throw in the sucker punch of the 49/51 debacle and the question stops being like a vague overhanging vibe to the story and instead becomes the focal point of it: how much of a person can you strip away before they stop being the person you know? and i really truly think orv answers this. it answers it in the most beautiful way possible and the answer is that if theseus loves the ship. its his ship. the ship of theseus can be 1% original parts, it can be 49%, it can be 99%, it doesnt matter. the ship of theseus is theseus' ship because he loves it and as long as it continues to be loved it will continue to sail under his name.

and idk. i think about that a lot. people love you regardless of how much they know about you and thats the point. being known often precludes being loved but sometimes people know you because they love you. the ship of theseus is his because he loves it. yeah.

[unexpectedgeese]

Han Sooyoung showed up for 500 chapters and spent every single one of them assembling cults. she loooves to walk into a room and go 'hi I'm here to solve all your problems and I have the answer to every question you've ever asked, all you have to do is trust me ^_^' and the whole time she is rolled outta bed eyes crusty no clean jeans no money in the wallet style LYING. the avatar skill can take whatever memories it wants but it can never take away the fact that she is a LYING ASS BITCH WITH NO GAME. I want her to throw a lit cigarette at me.

[lifeof-pink]

do you think part of the reason why dokja’s face is so unclear/censored throughout most of the story is because his self as the oldest dream (ie 15 year old him) cant imagine himself surviving to adulthood

[insomaniacat]

orv is a story about learning to love. orv is a story about a man who hated the world enough to dissociate himself from it. a man who hated the world enough that most of his memories were about him reading the novel. the way he obsessed over it to let himself forget about the life he was given.

orv is a story about a man who only shone in the apocalypse, when his home was destroyed. orv is a story about a man who hated other human beings enough such that, when he got the power to, chose who got to live and who got to die. orv is a story about a man who swore to take down every constellation in the sky that took his suffering as entertainment. orv is a story about a man who didn’t think twice to kill a person that reminded him of himself. orv is a story about a man who hated himself enough to try to kill his younger self if he hadn’t been stopped.

yet orv is a story about a man who, when asked what he would do after the apocalypse ends, replied that he wanted to live in a big house with all of his companions. yet orv is a story about a man who eventually wished to start reconnecting with the mother he hated for the majority of his life. yet orv is a story about a man who came to love the constellations he swore to kill. orv is a story about a man who raised three children as if they were his own with a love he never got to experience in his own childhood. yet orv is a story about a man who would’ve willingly killed his younger self, which in the process would kill his current self, to save the world from its destruction.

so really orv is a story about a man who hated the world, but came to love it anyways. orv is a story about change. orv is a story about growth. and essentially, orv is a story about how to be human.

[currently-not-studying]

This was such an interesting read (and as someone also stuck in academia i applaud your courage to use ORV) with the line "personhood then is granted through recognition by another" staying with me.

The way KD can arbitrary decide who can be deemed a person not a character (which you very well pointed out) made me think of his overall rigidity. Be it when looking at the problem of people vs characters or gender - he seems to be struggling with accepting different ways of seeing the world and others. Which seems to be (if i got the term right of course) his own disability in ORV. He struggles with human bonds, lacks the ways of securing companionship with others. But as the story goes on with his well thought plans he manages to gather people who care about him.

For me KD is somewhat coded as either autistic or (more probable since we know about the traumas) deeply traumatized. He is treated as someone weird in Mino Soft. And even though he found solace in YJ story just like others denied KD personhood based on his weirdness he has an inclination to do the same with characters from the novel. Which yes may be more understandable but for us outside viewers seems almost trivial. At the end of the day both aren't people

So yes, thank you for sharing your work, it gave me a lot to think about. And sorry if I misunderstood any of the terms

so i wrote an 8-page essay about personhood and yoo joonghyuk in omniscient reader's viewpoint for my real life seminar for a real life grade that will be on my academic record forever. why? because im insane.

read "me, myself, and i: recognizing personhood in omniscient reader's viewpoint" here!

i would highly recommend reading this short text as an introduction to some of the theory and terms used in my essay; ive also included an extremely condensed version of the major points used for my paper under the cut.

narrative prosthesis: disability and the dependencies of discourse speaks on disability— and more abstractly, a deficiency in something— being a vital part of literary narratives, while also disqualifying disabled people from being perceived as human.

characters need to be missing something or deficient in some way in order to necessitate a story to be told about them, and at the same time this disqualifies them from being a "human person". essentially, disability is used because of its inherent implications: that there is a story to be told about it, and that there is a story that can be made from it. the end goal of the narrative is to either "fix" this disability/deficiency, or to "prosthesize" it with an equally narratively valuable explanation or compensation, hiding it from view.

disability and its place in literature is surrounded by a myriad of issues, such as how representations of disabled people are used to justify their abuse and exploitation. disability is viewed as the "master trope of human disqualification", automatically marking someone to be completely unrecognisable as a "normal" human, and when a disability becomes too apparent— both in literature and in the real world— a prosthetic is sought by the narrative or by social pressure in order to "compensate" for the disability, restoring it to an "acceptable" level.

[briebysabs]

I find it fascinating how much orv makes Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk live by the constraints of “reader” and “protagonist”. Like KDJ wants to see the ending but at the same time, he doesn’t and wishes the story would never end. Not simply because he loves this story but because he needs it like oxygen; TWSA gave him a purpose. He was its reader for 13 years and you notice KDJ never talks of what he’ll do after the scenarios until towards the end. There’s even a moment between him and Sangah where he ponders what he would’ve done if the novel never became reality. If he read the ending, closed his phone, and went back to his apartment. He contemplates if he would’ve killed himself, KDJ knows at least the sad truth that he wouldn’t have befriended Sangah. He’d never reconciled with his mother, he was getting laid off from his job in two days. From 15 to 28 TWSA was the only lifeline he had so think about it. What becomes of a reader when the story is over? One can discern, based on SP and OD’s conclusion, it is to find a new story. But Kim Dokja couldn’t bear to do that. To continue on, he needed to be a reader.

Lee Sookyoung wrote her novel to gain income for KDJ’s living but also to paint herself as the murderer. To sink the lie into KDJ’s head that she was the one wielding the knife. If the traumatized 12-13 years old Kim Dokja knew he killed his father by accident and his mother took the fall for him, KDJ would’ve killed himself. No doubt the guilt would kill him so LSK felt as though she had to do this. So that KDJ’s self-hatred would be aimed at her instead. She made her son a reader of his own life. It temporarily saves him, gives him some time but KDJ is still given a label “a son of a murderer”. His trauma was publicized and hyperfocused on, he was bullied excessively for it. That book is one of the factors that led to his first suicide attempt. So it doomed him.

HSY wrote TWSA to keep Kim Dokja alive. A desperate attempt to save a kid with one foot prepared to leap off a cliff. What else could she have done? She created characters that KDJ could aim his self-hatred at: Kim Namwoon, Anna Croft, the constellations, Nirvana. She made him a reader of a character’s life. Made him inject YJH’s essence through his veins like an IV drip. Of course, Kim Dokja wants Yoo Joonghyuk to be happy in the end. That is the main driving force between so many decisions he makes but where does leave him? The whole reason he attached himself to TWSA was because this protagonist was suffering too. But he kept on living round by round so surely, they could live through their shitty lives together. If the TWSA ended on that train, KDJ would truly be alone and might’ve killed himself. So what happens, the novel comes to life and gives him even more time. But because of that, later down the line KDJ will make the choice to become the Oldest Dream, a watcher for all eternity. Yes, KimCom’s world needed someone to dream for it to exist but even if that wasn’t necessary ... .do you think KDJ would have enjoyed a happily ever after discovering he was behind all their pain and tribulations? The guilt might’ve killed him, we saw some of that with his visceral reaction to OD. So it doomed him.

Kim Dokja has to be a reader.

Yoo Joonghyuk was created for Kim Dokja. This isn’t a shipping statement, this is just a fact. I think it’s foolish to believe that is all there is to his character, he’s his own individual and his journey throughout orv is keeping his autonomy and gaining agency. Outside of what he’s written to behave like or KDJ’s will for him. But his life’s purpose is to keep Kim Dokja alive. HSY wrote each of his regressions to save this one person. And this is where the 0th turn YJH comes in because he makes the decision to regress. He was happy in his world, that is true but he couldn’t truly rest because something was missing. Everything was idle, every day was peaceful after saving the world. But while yeah, KDJ was reading his story as always…he wasn’t being the protagonist. YJH needs to do something, he needs a goal to accomplish so he gives himself one. He regresses for three reasons: To meet his sponsor aka his reader Kim Dokja. To find out his purpose, what he was made for….which is to save Kim Dokja. And finally to fulfill his sense of self which is being a protagonist. Reaching self actualization and being an active force in the world around him. So fast forward when Kim Dokja’s fragments are scattered across the universe and the scenarios are over, why is it surprising that YJH falls into depression? Why is it surprising that he goes to HSY in the museum and seriously asks her to end his life? What becomes of a protagonist when there’s no one to read his story? What use is there for him? So of course he’ll be the one to venture on this suicide mission to space, hopping from one worldline to the next, grasping onto the fragile hope that KDJ can come home.

Yoo Joonghyuk has to be a protagonist.

[mrynnn]

Kim Dokja and Han Sooyoung ship

When I read the novel I used to ship Joongdok and thought Han Sooyoung loved Kim Dokja by the end of the novel. Now that I’m rereading the novel to enjoy the side stories thoroughly, I don’t think Han Sooyoung’s love is unrequited. The signs are subtle but I think Kim Dokja is also at least slightly interested in her. after Kim Dokja and Han Sooyoung’s first parting (when HSY ran away leaving her avatar corpse) I could feel Dokja’s panic and sadness at that moment before he could think and Han Sooyoung’s expectations and thoughts on meeting him in the future (that was the first of it)

There was also that time when Kim Dokja was missing Han Sooyoung mid scenario soon after. The two were clearly interested with each other from the beginning and had some sort of tension. While Han Sooyoung’s feelings were comparatively more evident in the novel, we should agree that by the end that she did have some feelings for Dokja. As for Dokja, that dense bastard who didn’t even consider that his companions loved him and even when they showed clear affection towards him, he would get helpless as to how to respond to their affection, I doubt he actually caught on to Han Sooyoung’s feelings for him and actually started liking her without realising it himself, plus all the WOS coming to life and scenarios one after the another, I doubt he even had the time to care about who he has feelings for (and even if he did, his fourth wall or even his own personality would try to self rationalise to convince it to be something else)

The whole Kaizenix arc, the promise between Sooyoung and Dokja that Dokja wanted to read a 3000 chapter romance novel she wrote , the epilogue chapters, the 1863rd arc and literally every arc where both Kim Dokja and Han Sooyoung play a major part and actually spend time together they have some tension between them. Personally, I like their relationship a lot and I think it plays a major part in the story, way bigger then some might realise other like realise cause yk… a female character getting between the more popular male x male ship…

The romance aspect of the story is really vague (except Jung Heewon and Lee Hyunsung, Hades and Persephone and Yoo Joonghyuk and Lee Seolhwa, even 999 Uriel and 999 Yjh)

in general but you cannot turn a blind eye to their relationship.

At the end what do y’all think ??

[cactusjuiceisquenchy]

I feel like no one talks about how Kim dokja goes through a reverse character arc by the ending of orv. Every other character has gotten better and has grown into a stronger character by the end, but Kim dokja… well. Spoilers ahead.

We see the character growth of kimco directly during the group regression where kimco is literally able to create the perfect turn together.

Meanwhile Kim dokja, the guiding light of the series, the strongest incarnation who took all of them under his wing and protected them to the end, has concluded the series at his LOWEST point.

The part of the epilogue that intrigues me the most is the aspect of role reversal. Most series begin with the protagonist getting saved until they are strong enough to save themselves. Kim dokja begins the series strong enough to protect everyone, becoming stronger as necessary but he ends in the position of needing to be saved.

To put it simply, his arc doesn’t feel finished. He has spent the entire series behind a wall, and only now at the very end has it come down. Only in his final moments do we see his greatest weaknesses and insecurities on full display. It takes over 500 chapters to get him to the starting line of addressing his issues.

I don’t think I can get over the last broken fragments of his story knocking on the train car door for kimco.

Makes for a great set up to the side story ig LOL.

[theofficialuriel]

Kim Dokja having never felt parental love after his mother’s arrest and having been neglected (and maybe abused) by his foster home.

Lee Gilyoung having never felt parental love after his parents’ death and having been neglected (and maybe abused) by his aunt.

Kim Dokja taking Lee Gilyoung in after the first scenario and giving Lee Gilyoung a parental figure to look up to.

Lee Gilyoung feeling parental love for the first time since his parents and attaching himself to that figure.

Kim Dokja abandoning him time and time again, either through actually leaving or getting himself killed. Kim Dokja clearly favoring Shin Yoosung and Biyoo over Lee Gilyoung. Kim Dokja being simultaneously the most present and most absent parental figure on his life.

Lee Gilyoung finally getting used to Kim Dokja’s constant disappearing and reappearing act… only for his Hyung to never reappear again.

[currently-not-studying]

What I came to appreciate about KDJ narration is how well it mirrors the experience of constant dissociation. The physical aspect is there but it's second to the narration in his head, to his plans, to him judging the situation and then acting out his plans. KDJ feels so separated from his body and his emotions (which are also based in the body) and we can only see what he sees - a world of action and thinking but almost no physicality

[orphiclovers]

'kim dokja would have kin tumblr' sure but you're missing the potential of real life fictional character Yoo Joonghyuk on kinblr at the same time. especially in a pre-scenario TWSA having world. unknowingly he saw a blog with his name and clicked on it.  kdj would be like 'no doubles' and yjh would be like '???' everyone would think they're two yjh kintypes from some obscure webnovel who are really really into it. they would have beef where yjh thinks his identity is being stolen and reports kdjs account. kdj would make more and they would continue sending each other deranged asks. sometimes kdj would do it in character as yjh. yjh would respond 'i do NOT sound like that' but to the outside world it just looks like hes in character responding too.

or like post-epilouge yjh making a reddit post on r/fictionkin like 'My [???M] boyfriend [???M] kins me. How do I deal with this?'

where the comments would at first be like 'factkinning is pretty controversial. talk to your boyfriend about having healthy boundaries.' but then yjh would respond 'I had to google this word. He wasn't 'factkinning.' I am a fictional character from a novel he read. I was the main character which he 'kinned' to cope with some pretty severe trauma he was going through at the time. I'm okay with it, I accepted it a long time ago.'

which causes confusion in the subreddit and people speculate that this is again two doubles dating and that yjh is more kinshifted than his partner. or 'op should be respectful of his partner having introjects of a character that they both clearly feel a deep connection to' since yjh mentioned kdj having trauma in another comment thread.

he gets really into defending his relationship on reddit. he has negative karma by the end of it.

hsy finds his account annd tells him that hes a freak and should get off the internet

[auuwmk]

"Kdj is so cool and awesome and smart!!!!" HAH! That's what he wants you to think. This was probably the intended effect he was going for as someone who is SO obsessed with the way he's perceived.

He wants to be perceived as someone who's tough and shouldn't be messed with. He definitely doesn't want people to know about his ugly flaws.

Surprise, surprise! The guy with the emotional intelligence of a cookie hates emotional vulnerability cuz that will reveal his more 'less likeable' and his embarrassing and childish side!

I bet 2 cents that if you ask him anything related to his personal goals or feelings, he will either give a really vague and selective answer or just outright dismiss it

[lialox]

Hhhhhhh more AU's that I will never write based on that post that's like:

"You came back wrong and i am racked with guilt because i cannot bear to see you like this and i should have let you rest. i loved you so much that i defied death itself but i do not think either of us are happy."

Joongdok:

KDJ gets isekai'd right at the ending of Ways of Survival. The ending of a story is like death. There is nothing written past the Final Scenario and YJK slowly starts transforming into an outer god. Not like SP, but more like an extant form of life, with garbled memories and messed up form like 'Made in Abyss' if you've ever seen it.

YJK just looks like a blob of stories. He cannot even be called remotely human. KDJ tries to pick him up, but his existence is like a gelatinous sack, and sentences slip past his arms. He cannot even hold him.

They spend their days in N'Gai forest. KDJ tries to make him comfortable. He cooks for YJK. They watch rounds of Ways of Survival together.

I want to die I want to die I want to die I want to die

KDJ won't let him

Doksoo:

Her childhood friend committed suicide when she was young, and her therapist suggested she write out her feelings in the form of a story. Han Sooyoung is the type who loves hard, and the grieving process takes decades. By the time she's ready to let go, she's 26, and she's thousands of chapters in. She gets isekai'd into her own story.

KDJ is there, alive, like a protagonist

She spent years trying to understand him in the hopes he would be resurrected in her writing, but because her understanding of him stopped when he was at the lowest point in his depression, this Kim Dokja is eternally at his lowest point in the pages.

The narrative keeps him alive. The purpose of this story is so that KDJ can live.

Living is so painful for KDJ, but for a universe that was meant to grieve him, to hold onto him, to capture him 'exactly as he was' he is doomed to never become happier because a happier KDJ did not exist in reality. HSY tries. She tries so hard to change the already-written sentences.

She can't she can't she can't

The one who loves this story cannot change this story.

Yoohan:

A soul for a soul. That is the law of exchange in demonic pacts. They wanted to bring back their deceased mutual friend. They thought they were being smart and had found a loophole: they would each trade one half of their soul in exchange for one whole Kim Dokja. That way neither of them would die and KDJ would live. But demonic pacts aren't fair. The demon gave each of them one half of Kim Dokja.

50% YJK now inhabits 50% of KDJ in his body. He doesn't understand himself anymore. He's acting different and he knows it and its almost like he's a character and a reader is projecting himself into his actions.

50% HSY now inhabits 50% of KDJ into her body. She can hear him talking to her sometimes. She barely recognizes who he is.

HSY and YJK chase after the vestiges of someone else in each other.

(When they wake up the next morning, bare shoulders peeking past the sheets, they both turn their backs and start crying)

It's not who they're looking for. They cannot recognize each other broken. They cannot recognize themselves.

Who are you? Who am I?

No one is happy

[saaraofthesand]

actual analysis to come but I’m being so serious when I say I’m onto something here and it’s profound

[drowning-in-webnovel-chapters]

I wrote this about a year or two ago and just realized I never posted it here.

Major spoilers if you haven't read the ORV webnovel obviously.

This took me 2 whole months of nonstop work to finish and is my pride and joy. It's not exactly fanart or fanfiction but I still believe it will be an enjoyable read for anyone who's read the novel.

Here's a small spoiler free expert:

In its entirety ORV is a story about sacrifice, found family, and well, stories. Every major character in ORV, even the ones that weren't touched much on in this essay like Lee Gilyoung or Shin Yoosung, sacrifice something, or many things, for either the sake of the world or just their family. Many times the people around Kim Dokja will attempt to sacrifice themselves before he has a chance, because the scenarios almost always require a sacrifice to defeat them. Kim Dokja knew this and decided to make sure he was the sacrifice every time, and it's only once Kim Dokja is gone that the other characters start to make the big sacrifices themselves. While sacrifice is one of the main themes, the moral is not ‘sacrifices are necessary for a happy life/world.’ It’s actually the opposite: ‘the sacrifice of something loved can never bring the happiness of the people it was sacrificed for.’ Kim Dokja’s family is never happy to be alive, or happy they completed the scenario, after Kim Dokja sacrifices himself for them, the only emotions they feel after are always negative. When sacrifices are made it may seem selfless or necessary to others, but it is always a truly selfish act in the end.