#new ways to hate Palps

[musewrangler]

Leia’s eyes flicked to Luke’s again. “Our agent has uncovered evidence from the very top levels that Lord Vader has two living children. The Emperor knows this.”

Piett’s shock was palpable, but he schooled himself admirably.

“Lord Vader has never given any indicator regarding that,” he stated firmly.

“There are a few possibilities for that,” Luke said. “One, he knows and is protecting them. Or two, he doesn’t know, but they are still a threat to Palpatine.”

It was odd to be speaking about himself like this.

Piett glared at his leg. He had the air of a man who needed to pace and that option was not open to him at the moment.

He opted instead to gently tap his finger upon the table top.

“I grant,” he said at last, “That this seems ridiculously elaborate as a way to get me to give you sensitive information. I would appreciate some time to consider my own course of action.”

[antianakin]

@kine-iende

I feel like I'm kicking a hornet's nest by answering this, but what is this blog for if not controversial opinions on things.

Just as a quick disclaimer, Soft Wars is obviously a FAN WORK, so I am not trying to attack the author of this series for their chosen interpretations of things, their characterization choices, etc by stating my opinions on this. Everyone is allowed their own opinions and interpretations and tastes and I applaud this work for the well-written epic that it is and the clear impact it's had on the fandom as a whole.

TL;DR at the end under the cut.

With that out of the way, I think it does some things REALLY REALLY WELL, and some things that I like considerably less. As this reply says, it's really high quality writing with some interpretations of characters I don't personally like or agree with (I won't say they're "bad" because just because I don't like something doesn't make it bad).

Firstly, I really love the way Soft Wars chooses to portray the clones, the focus it has on them already HAVING a chosen culture before the Jedi that they've created amongst themselves, a lot of their own independence, and the strong and unique relationships between the different clone characters. Cody does not feel like he could be replaced with Fox or Ponds or Bly and be effectively the same character, for example. They also all have such unique relationships among each other and with their main Jedi counterparts which was really interesting to see. I love me a niche pairing sometimes.

I particularly love the way Fox and Ponds' relationship played out as someone who identifies as asexual and at least a little aromantic, too. I also really like the way Obi-Wan's sensitivity to touch is handled within his relationship with Cody and how respectful Cody is of that, it's one of my favorite aspects of that relationship in Soft Wars.

That being said, I'm not the BIGGEST fan of the way the Jedi are portrayed all the time. Sometimes it's really great, and I do like it! It's by no means ANTI Jedi, there is no virulent hatred aimed at the Jedi in the narrative. But it absolutely falls into the category of showcasing the Jedi as repressed and somewhat complacent and if they just were a little more Mandalorian, a little more like Anakin, they could've saved themselves from genocide and they'd just be generally happier and healthier people.

This obviously makes itself MOST known with the way the relationship between Rex and Anakin (and Obi-Wan to some degree) gets treated. Rex becomes like Anakin's replacement father-figure because Obi-Wan just didn't quite hit the mark well enough because he's too much of a Jedi and doesn't cater to Anakin's specific needs which is why Anakin falls for Palpatine's manipulations so much. Rex's blatant dislike of Obi-Wan which he BARELY keeps in check and which everybody is aware of because he blames Obi-Wan for Anakin being kind-of a selfish juvenile shithead is... certainly a take on that relationship. Rex tends to give Anakin a lot of advice that I personally see as just obvious normal Jedi philosophy and values as though it's clearly something Anakin wouldn't have learned from the Jedi already.

I'm also not a huge fan of the way Obi-Wan's relationship to Cody plays out in conjunction with the "pledge" to Cody as vod'alor. The fact that Obi-Wan DOESN'T pledge himself to Cody AS A POLITICAL LEADER somehow ends up meaning Obi-Wan doesn't love Cody enough and it's only when Obi-Wan chooses Cody OVER THE JEDI that Obi-Wan is truly... freed? Unrepressed? On his way to a happier way of living life because now he's willing to be in a more typical committed relationship and that's the only way to have a healthy relationship? Obi-Wan choosing Cody and the clones over the Jedi is also what ultimately gets Rex to decide Obi-Wan's not a TOTAL piece of shit and can be saved from his unhealthy toxic Jedi ways.

Then there's Cody apparently blaming MACE for the clones' situation within the GAR. Like I get that the clones would've believed the Jedi had ordered them and all that, but he's literally in a relationship with Obi-Wan who is ON THE COUNCIL and was the one to discover Kamino and the clones and could 1000% tell Cody the truth, and Cody is not presented as though he's kind-of dim and unintelligent or too stubborn to accept the truth, so it feels strange that Cody would hate Mace because he thinks Mace is the reason the clones are "enslaved" to the Republic or whatever. But I will mention here that Mace IS portrayed positively, Cody's dislike of Mace and his choice to blame Mace for their situation is NOT universal since we see a really lovely friendship between Mace and Ponds, so it's not like Mace is at all villainized. It just feels like a strange opinion for Cody to have, especially since it really only makes an appearance once and never gets explored again to my knowledge and Cody's blame seems to rest SOLELY on Mace, not the Jedi or the Council at large.

I don't like the way the Council gets sort-of villainized as a governing body even if its individual members are sometimes treated positively outside of it, specifically through them being pitted against Anakin in particular for no obvious reason. The Deception arc is interpreted as the Council ORDERING Obi-Wan to fake his death and then lie to Anakin about it, when it's stated really really clearly in the episode that the Council itself (or at least Yoda and probably Mace too) don't actually think lying to Anakin is the best idea but that Obi-Wan himself insisted on it for several different reasons, both strategic and personal. Obi-Wan specifically says the Council wants him to "break" Anakin, when a) it's not the Council's idea to begin with in canon, and b) that's not even what Obi-Wan's TRYING to do with this choice in canon.

This theme of pitting the Council against Anakin also comes up in a fic where Obi-Wan "allows" the Council to force Anakin to help Quinlan learn how to go undercover as a slave. It's pointed out by Cody that Quinlan is a perfectly good undercover agent and so he either shouldn't have NEEDED assistance from anyone in figuring out how to act the part or he should have other friends he could go to that could help him learn more that just... aren't Anakin (why it's a better idea to ask a different former slave for advice rather than Anakin who is a trained Jedi with access to mental health care and a lot of support just because Anakin is Anakin and so he's special does not get addressed). The implication here is that the Council just doesn't care about Anakin enough to utilize these options if it's quicker and easier to just use Anakin.

I don't like the way Ki-Adi Mundi is portrayed in Soft Wars, although I have seen a few posts on the author's page about this kind-of addressing some of the critique about the way Ki-Adi is written which... helps. Ki-Adi is apparently someone who gets a LOT of fandom hate for some reason, I assume it's a Legends thing since he's pretty minor in high canon and all of his scenes are pretty generic kindly old man stuff. Since this seems like something that's gotten discussed and brought up a bunch by other people I'm not going to dwell on it.

Soft Wars DOES undo the entire Tusken massacre because it recognizes that's something you either just undo or have to address and deal with and they went with the easier option of just saving Shmi and letting him not massacre an entire village of people down to the last child. I don't have any strong feelings on this honestly, it's clearly the only real way to pretend Anakin's not an irredeemable piece of shit by the time of the Clone Wars. Also the entire point of Soft Wars is to save everybody from death, so saving Shmi is kind-of a necessary thing to do.

You could probably also categorize Soft Wars as one of those stories that acts like if Anakin had just gotten one more lecture from someone about what attachment actually means or that the Jedi actually CAN love blah blah blah that it would've suddenly saved him from going Sith. It's not particularly accurate to how Anakin is written in canon, but it's pretty common to how people who really like Anakin and sympathize with him and relate to him like to write him as a character.

All in all, Soft Wars is exactly what it says it is. It's soft. It's soft towards Anakin, it's soft towards the clones, it's soft towards the war and the worldbuilding. It's definitely worth a read just for the way it handles the clone worldbuilding and the clear impact it has had on the way the clones have been written in fic ever since. At this point, I don't regret reading it but I also don't go back to it very often anymore and there's a reason I didn't rec Soft Wars in my Pro-Jedi Codywan rec list lol.

TL;DR: Soft Wars is not what I would consider fully Pro-Jedi but nor is it anywhere near virulently anti-Jedi and it has some really neat writing for the clones while obviously being really pro-Anakin Skywalker to the point of smoothing out most of his more uncomfortable flaws to make him a more sympathetic and likable character.

[starbeltconstellation]

I don’t think they are bad and some survived order 66 Quinlan Vos was one of them. But I do believe they lost their way by the end of the clone wars because most lost their way or watered down their beliefs becoming to caught up in image and pandering to the senate (palps *cough*) even yoda said basically that a dark shroud surround them (Sith made) but they made themselves susceptible to it with arrogance, becoming inflexible, and a strange combo of attachment and detachment. Even mace windu was attached to the republic which is one of the reasons he was so defensive and disliked Anakin he saw him as a threat to his republic.

I’m not trying to hate on the Jedi just make sure that in discussing the Jedi we remember the good and bad. The Jedi did a lot of good, they made one of the longest major peace times the galaxy had ever seen, that’s 1000 years of peace time after ending the Sith war. And actually Luke skywalker, Ezra Bridger, Ahsoka (rebellion), and season 4 Kanan were prime examples of what the Jedi were originally. I just think when palpatine started pulling strings and corrupting everything to take power it made slow brewing Jedi problems 10x worse as some Jedi like Barriss Offee’s master mixed up avoiding negative attachment with being cold and callous because while a Jedi master should avoid “possessive” attachment especially in a way that would hold their student back they should have a good bond with them because emotional bonds are one of the pillars of trust.

-that’s my take, I’m not sure what you meant by no Jedi haters though. So if this crosses your line then I’m sorry I can see myself out cause I don’t want to start a conflict 😅

Hello, anon. 👋

Firstly, I just want to DEEPLY apologize for the long wait in my response. 😅🤦‍♀️ I try not to get behind on asks, but life has been crazy for me at the moment, and especially with longer asks like yours, I really want to take my time and give a good and in depth response.

Now, just right off the bat: I don’t mind discussing things. As long as it doesn’t get nasty and full of insults. So I’m not about to bite your head off.

In fact, I am going to take the time to use your ask to refute all of these critical/anti Jedi points, proving how most of it is Palpatine’s propaganda that the galactic citizens/SW fandom has grown to believe because it’s easier to have a big bad scapegoat (ie; the Jedi boogie man) than for galactic citizens to grapple with the fact that they themselves are also a part of the problem because THEY are the ones who vote in politicians in the Senate (who are a lot corrupt, except like a handful like Mon Mothma/Bail Organa/Riyo Chuchi/Padmé/etc. And even Padmé wasn’t a complete saint like a lot of fans think, since she purposely hid Anakin’s Tusken massacre just because she didn’t want to give up her new hot murder husband who was obsessively adoring over her/loved her), and THEY are the ones who also got the most complacent, are they not? After all… if the fandom blames the JEDI… why didn’t the CITIZENS clock anything wrong until suddenly an Empire was telling them to hand over all their freedoms or die?

It’s really easy to sit back and say what you would’ve done in the Jedi’s position, because the audience has more information than they do. What Dooku and Qui-Gon told them is the equivalent of being told they saw a unicorn (Sith) in the wild. It’s not that out there that there’d be some doubts from the Council, and people seem to forget that the Council STILL said they’d look into it. But they aren’t magic. They can’t just snap their fingers and see that Palpatine is the Sith Lord. Especially with the Darkness cloaking their Force senses. I think it’s kinda… gross? To blame them for something Palpatine was causing (the cloaking Darkness) that was literally part of the plan to genocide them. Just a thought, but maybe that should be Palpatine’s and Anakin’s fault, where it belongs? Lol. Sorry if I sound a little snippy, it’s just this is a tired and running around in circles argument (although I do think your ask is a genuine one, which is why I’m taking the time to answer it and perhaps if not change YOUR mind, then change someone else’s that might read this. I’m trying to reach more across the aisle here, because both sides I’ll admit have moments where they only want to be defensive and not explain their positions).

It’s funny how people always point out that the Jedi missed brewing corruption (they totally knew about it and tried to fight against it how they could. But just like in real life, I’m unsure what people expect from them. To strut into the Senate and threaten/murder the politicians into submission? Because ya know… that was kinda the red flag Anakin gave off with that “They should be made to!” line to Padmé. Just saying. 🤷‍♀️ Just like anyone, Jedi know the politicians of the Republic are slowly being corrupt (just like MOST politicians in real life, and you don't see everyone condemning all US citizens because we don't go clean them out like assassins or something), but there isn't anything they can do about that unless you expect them to go in and wave their lightsabers around to threaten the politicians into submission. As if Palpatine wouldn't immediately twist that into his favor to say they were "trying to take over the Republic". (And oh wait—he did that in the movies! Funny how that works, huh?)

What I think is interesting about you and about a lot of Jedi fans (including LH, who is the writer of The Acolyte) is that you THINK you’re being “fair” to the Jedi, but you’re kinda… not? 🤷‍♀️😅 And I’m not saying that as an insult. I’m saying it because it’s true.

Let me explain: There are rabid anti Jedi fans known as the infamous Karen Travis’s who is basically a rapid and foaming at the mouth Jedi anti who believes they “got what was coming to them.🤢🥶” LH on the other hand (at least in HER head), views herself as Jedi CRITICAL (which is something you clearly view yourself as as well. And there’s nothing wrong with being Jedi critical. The problem is that a lot of times this “criticism” becomes condescending, whether intentional or not, despite maybe the person’s best intentions). And while there is a little bit of a difference there, it’s not as stark a line as fans would try to convince us pro Jedi’s to believe.

As I mentioned to someone else in my other ask: there are plenty of fair criticisms about the Jedi that I can acknowledge: the Shimi thing, for one, which is I think just a bad symptom of GL’s writing being more “metaphorical” than literal. Shimi HAS to stay on Tatooine because Anakin eventually HAS to murder the Tuskens in cold blood so GL can tell the story he wants to tell of how Anakin can’t let go, and so the Jedi are never given the opportunity to do what I truly BELIEVE they would’ve done, which is go back and free her, at least for the peace of mind of one of their newest initiate. The plot literally physically bars them from doing so.

And even THIS is not without its flaws, because they would ONLY have wiggle room to free Shimi after the heat of TPM problems had died down where they had time to do so… while walking past/avoiding eye contact with all of Shimi’s slave neighbors, because as specified before—The Jedi have no jurisdiction in the Outer Rim, and you bet your ass if they freed all those slaves and started a war with the Hutts with their little 10,000 strong army, the Republic would take one look and go “Lol, good luck with that,” and not help them at all, which would be basically suicide for the Order to try and accomplish on abolishment of slavery on the Outer Rim all on their own in the TRILLIONS of people in the galaxy. They do not have the MAN POWER for that. Not without the Senate army/clones. So how can they be blamed for this? WHY are one of the “space minorities” of the galaxy being blamed for something that should be the POLITICIANS’S job? Can you not see the double standard here? Genuinely asking, anon, because it’s always baffled me.

People want the Jedi to do something about it? Get on the Senate’s ass about it then—the REAL people who are responsible for all of the shit going wrong in the Outer Rim while they line their pockets and kiss up to clueless galactic citizens for votes come election time. THEY are the ones that should be responsible for the problems of an ENTIRE galaxy—not a small little minority group (which I’ve already come to realize that the Jedi are. They are a culture/religion/family, and 10,000 is but a drop in the ocean of the galaxy. They are so small in the grand scheme of things that it’s SCARY when considering how easy it was for Palpatine to lead them to almost total annihilation) that try and try and TRY as hard as they can, which is apparently somehow NEVER enough, for the galactic citizens AND the SW fandom itself.

And why is that? Why is it so HARD for SW fandom to relate to them? Why does LH (who I’m sure in her head BELIEVES she’s as progressive as they come, just as I genuinely believe you had the best intentions when reaching across the aisle to send me this ask, but at the end of the day still comes across frankly exhausting and a little condescending when you pick out the “good Jedi blorbos” who are ones that deserve to live and don’t have to be dehumanized as “emotionless/cold/callous” like you just did with Luminara just because Luminara chose to grieve in a way you and Anakin and many other rabid Anakin fans/anti Jedi’s view as lesser than) view the Jedi as some type of “space cops” who are “oppressing 🙄” the Sith as a representation of her religious trauma that she is clearly projecting onto them as something completely separate than what the Jedi Culture actually is? Why does she view them as “emotionally repressed” and “almost catholic-like”, and views the fucking SITH (literal SPACE NAZIS 😭🤦‍♀️) as a representation for her persecution as a gay woman?

It’s because—just like MOST SW fans in the US—she cannot fathom a culture outside of the lens of western philosophy. In her mind, the Jedi aren’t a “real 🙄🤢” family. In HER mind, the Jedi aren’t necessarily evil, but she still believes those “poor little culty Jedi 😔💔🙄” didn’t see they were ‘sewing their own destruction’. (Which is blaming them. It’s BLAMING the victims of genocide, and it’s to this day the most disgusting thing I will always remember about the show’s “your actions will cause the destruction of every Jedi in the galaxy” quote that made Twitter go wild with genocide apologia galore).

I’m not gonna repeat everything in the post I made to the other anon (this ask response is long enough already), but I’ll link it here in case you want to read it, because I do have some examples screenshotted of certain SW fandom dehumanizing the Jedi and showing genocide apologia, which proves that pro Jedi’s critique/defensiveness for the Jedi Order and their culture isn’t an overreaction or without basis, because it proves that blaming the Jedi for their own genocide is the NORM, even if people won’t admit so outright (still can’t believe The Acolyte just outright SAID it. I’m not gonna rub fans’s of the show’s faces in it, but because of that line alone, I’m SO glad that show was cancelled. Anti Jedi propaganda is already bad enough).

Also, I’m sorry to tell you this, anon, but the Mace Windu thing is just straight up wrong. I have never understood this Mace thing with the fandom. People act like Mace was personally bullying Anakin every damn day. Mace didn’t even hate Anakin. Just because Mace was a little stern with Anakin and didn't worship the ground he walked on didn't mean he hated/disliked him/was jealous of him (a frankly childish notion, in my opinion). They both just had different views over how to be a Jedi and in battle strategies during the war. It was never personal with Mace. Anakin MADE it personal, because he always took not being told "yes" personally, like it was a slight against him. He didn’t see Anakin as a threat to the Republic until literally the last free day of democracy when he looked at him and saw a giant shatterpoint all around Anakin. I think that would give any Jedi pause. Lol.

Mace was a fine Jedi who treated Anakin just fine. Just because he didn’t worship the ground Anakin walked on or treated him like God’s gift doesn’t mean that Mace was a bad person or Anakin was a “poor little guy” getting bullied by him. The thing with Mace refusing Anakin a seat on the Council is overblown. Frankly: Anakin didn’t DESERVE a seat on the Council. He might’ve been a powerful Jedi, but he was still hot headed and reckless and still had a lot to learn. And his temper tantrum when he didn’t get his way did him no favors either (look, I LOVE Anakin, but I’m not gonna be delusional about his faults, okay? Most of his problems were caused because he built them up out of thin air. He built up this rivalry with Mace in his head, when Mace was busy with his own life. Mace was not “out to get Anakin” or something. That’s—as kindly as I can say—something children tell themselves when angry at parents who tell them “no”, which Mace did a lot with Anakin). And I’m not gonna lie, anon. People have always seemed extra hard on Mace specifically, and while it might not be all of it, I think there’s a part of racism mixed in there with a proud black Jedi that isn’t afraid to stand up to the white and emo and hot future serial killer in the making (my hot Anakin! 🥰🥰😂). I’m not saying YOU specifically are being racist, but I’m just pointing out something that I’ve always felt reeked around the fandom opinion of Mace (more from the SW YouTube dudebro side of the fandom, but still).

I’m not gonna go and explain a play by play of all my points, because I got in a argument/discussion with someone on YouTube the other day (even though I know it’s bad for my blood pressure 😬😤😂), and I feel like the points I made there are perfect as a main response for this ask, so I’m going to place the screenshots here. This whole online debate came about when I was watching a SW lore video on Leia visiting Anakin’s grave after the ROTJ celebration and telling him she doesn’t forgive him, and one of the commentators called her a “brat”, which pissed me off. Lol. But anyway, we’ve been going back and forth the past few days, and I’ve basically made a mini pro Jedi manifesto, so I think all of the screenshots will answer most of your questions and also refute them to show how they are inaccurate and more of a fandom opinion that’s only come about because fans like Anakin and want to twist themselves into knots to blame everyone for his problems but him.

Here are all of the online person’s screenshots: you’ll notice how eventually he tries to justify Anakin killing the younglings as a “mercy”. 🥶🥶🤢 Yikes.

-

Here are my responses:

Damn. Apparently there’s a screenshot limit. 😭 I’ll copy paste the rest:

Leia had every right to come and get closure if she needed to. Anakin personally tortured her himself after all. She has a personal stake in this through being tortured by their own FATHER that Luke doesn't have. Whether she wanted to go to make sure the person she viewed as a monster was dead, or to try and get some closure from what Luke had told her, it was within her rights to do so. She understood EVERYTHING perfectly. She knew who Anakin had been for years before the last five minutes of his death, and that was someone who'd terrorized the galaxy.

Lol, Anakin wasn't "fulfilling the will of The Force" as his reign on the Dark Side for 20 something years. He fulfilled the will of the Force when he finally got off his ass and killed Palpatine to end the last of the Sith. It's a copout to pretend any of his other actions were anything but his own choice, otherwise his 'redemption' means squat. She doesn't owe him anything just because he stopped the horror by killing Palpatine. It's the LEAST he could've done. You seem to believe that one action somehow should buy Anakin forgiveness in the eyes of all of his victims, and if they don't forgive him, then they're "brats" or something. Redemption doesn't work like that. You don't do the right thing because you'll get something out of it. You do it to be selfless and because it's simply the right thing to do. And I can tell you that Anakin would probably disagree with your opinion on Leia being a "brat" himself once he was back on the Light Side, because the whole point is that he'd be REPENTANT. Not being arrogant and expecting blind forgiveness for things that are quite frankly unforgivable.

Luke's forgiveness is a GIFT. It is NOT something that has to be the norm, and Leia is no less because she chooses not to forgive Anakin. She has every right to never view him as her father till her dying days.

Anakin had EVERYTHING to do with the explosion of Alderaan. This BS certain fans spout of "that was Tarkin" is nonsense. Anakin had agency. He could've tried to stop Tarkin or tried to leave the Empire way before that moment. Just because it was hard, he chose not to. EVERYONE on board the Death Star that weren't prisoners are responsible for the destruction of Alderaan. And yes, that includes Anakin. As I said before, Tarkin would only be given the highest sentence in court because he chose to order the planet destroyed. But Anakin would still be charged right along with him in a court of law. Just because Anakin had a traumatic life, doesn't excuse the things he's done. That's like saying a school shooter/serial killer has no agency over killing their victims just because they had a “hard life.” It’s a frankly illogical argument.

Anakin as 'Vader' could've choked Tarkin out right there. Who's gonna stop him? He's survived dozens of enemies in the comics. Him not having "authority" is a copout. Anakin was given plenty of authority in the Empire. He was just still Palpatine's lapdog at the end of the day. Hell—he could've grew a spine and left the Empire years BEFORE that moment. He does not get a free pass for "following orders".

Lol, Anakin does NOT have borderline personality disorder. That’s a fanon theory. That is NOT actually canon and George never said that. GL says Anakin fell because of his greed for power to never feel weak like he did as a child and because he was afraid to let go. The Jedi didn't fail him. He failed THEM. He's the one who fucking genocided them after all. Their entire culture is literally mental empathy because they're space wizards. There were times when Yoda and Obi-Wan all but BEG Anakin to open his mouth and say what's wrong, and he either refuses or is so vague that there's no way to glean what his main problem is (when Anakin talks to Yoda about Padmé and won't just ADMIT it's about Padmé). People can't help you if you don't meet them halfway. Anakin refused to do that. That's on him. Not on any of his victims. And even if he DID have borderline personality disorder (which is just a fanon theory), he'd STILL be responsible for his actions. It's amazing how much fans blame everyone else under the sun than the man who choked his wife. Lol.

I don't think Anakin is emotionless or incapable of care or goodness. That's the whole point of Luke, after all. I simply deny not giving him the agency to make his own decisions. He WAS a monster. What else do you call killing little kids who beg for your help? But the point of Luke is that Anakin ALWAYS had the opportunity to turn from his actions and be better. He just didn't find the spine until ROTJ. And that's great! He turned back to the light and his soul found salvation. But he is NOT redeemed in the eyes of anyone but Luke. It's laughable to think otherwise or that he wouldn't have been executed if he'd survived. And it's illogical to blame his victims and call them "brats" just because they won't forgive someone who was once basically space Hitler.

Despite what you may think, I love Anakin's character and the tragedy of him. I love that he found salvation in the end. But I DESPISE treating him like a child who didn't know what he was doing. He knew. He was selfish for twenty years. LUKE is who taught him how to be selfless. Everything else is on him. You can't call him the greatest 'redemption' of all time and then blame everyone else for his actions.

Because then what is there to redeem?

Nothing.

You can't have both. Pick one. 🤷‍♀️

What does it matter that Anakin as 'Vader' knew that Palpatine wouldn't praise Tarkin for such a cruel and useless thing in destroying a planet just to look a little tough? That doesn't mean shit. Just because Tarkin eventually gets what was coming to him, doesn't mean that Anakin couldn't have sped up Tarkin's demise right there. Good actions don't work like that: "Oh, it didn't really matter that he didn't try to save Alderaan! Because in the end Tarkin gets his karma!" (Anakin gets his karma too, by the way. You could argue from his burns or the fact that the only way he can 'redeem' himself is through dying by killing Palpatine).

I'm not sure what argument your making on if Anakin could've "talked" Tarkin into another way to get Leia to talk to betray the Rebels. I'm arguing that if he—or YOU—expected Leia's "forgiveness", then it implies there should've been some level where he could've done something different. I'm arguing he could've left the Empire years earlier if he'd grown a spine, or he could've Force choked Tarkin out right there and got him and Leia out of there somehow. Who's gonna stop him? No lowly soldier on board the Death Star could stand in his way. Palpatine would be miles away at that point.

He could've done something different. Fans just argue he was "helpless" in the sense that they don't want Anakin to be selfless to give anything up. The excuse that he was "stuck" and "had nothing left" is BS. Deep down, Anakin knows if he found Obi-Wan and repented that Obi-Wan would take him back. There's a whole arc about it in a comic when he's trying to bleed a Kyber Krystal. He just doesn't do it because he's too depressed and selfish to admit he screwed up his own life. He pretended for 20 years everyone betrayed him, when really it was the other way around, and that was too horrific to contemplate, so he pretended he was another person, when clearly he's still the same guy, only horrifically injured under the mask. He can only admit the truth after Luke offers him blind forgiveness.

It doesn't really matter that psychologists have "diagnosed" Anakin. He isn't a real person. He's a character that was written with a narrative purpose by GL. And GL was clear when he says the reasons Anakin does what he does is because he's greedy for power to not feel weak again and also because he's too afraid to let go. The writer of the character knows better actually. Isn't that what SW fans always say with GL?

Jedi are literally space Buddhists that GL describes as "empathetic space monks." Part of their culture is literally to be connected to all life around them. It's laughable to say they wouldn't understand a "simple person" in the galaxy. That's literally what they're taught to do in the Temple. Before the war, they were Advisors/ mediators.

Anakin had a fondness for Qui-Gon, but he did trust Obi-Wan. Maybe not enough to mention Padmé (he didn't trust ANYONE with that except apparently Rex, and l'm almost certain Rex found out on accident, because Anakin definitely doesn't care about Rex as much as he did Ahsoka), but he DID trust him. And he cared for Obi-Wan greatly. Just not more than his own wants and needs apparently. But that's true when it comes to Anakin choosing himself over all of his friends and family at the end of ROTS. The Jedi would've helped Anakin if he'd just ASKED without being so damn vague. Maybe they wouldn't have let him stay in the Order, but it's not like he'd be kicked out the door immediately. But Anakin wanted his cake and to eat it too, so he didn't tell him about his wife because he wanted to keep the power of being a Jedi. And guess what? The Jedi don't OWE one man the power to change their entire culture just for him.

There isn't anything wrong with having a set of rules for beliefs. Priests can't marry either. That doesn't make them “emotionless robots” that are “incapable of understanding human emotion” or understanding a struggling man's thoughts. As I said before, the Jedi cannot help Anakin if he doesn't ASK. You cannot condemn them in one breath for not helping him, while at the same time saying that it's fine Anakin didn't explain his problems with them, because they should've just been able to read his mind. It's hypocritical.

Obi-Wan had no other options but to follow Padmé to find Anakin. He NEEDED to find Anakin, because Anakin was fucking dangerous at that point in time, and had just helped genocide an entire culture. Not exactly father/husband material at that point. And even then, in the movies Obi-Wan doesn't reveal himself until it's clear Anakin isn't going to listen to Padmé. It's ludicrous to think if Padme kept arguing with Anakin that Anakin still wouldn't have strangled her in anger in that moment. Again, it appears somehow you're trying to put off this transgression he's committed on someone else again, and I cannot fathom why. It makes him far less interesting that way if he was just a "poor guy" who couldn't control himself.

What I find interesting is you can admit that Anakin doesn't have the information the audience does, which is why he thinks Palpatine is kind and is his friend, but you show no grace towards the Jedi, calling them "arrogant" for not realizing the Sith had slowly popped back up, as if they are somehow supposed to have the audience's information. The truth is that they don't.

Just like anyone, they know the politicians of the Republic are slowly being corrupt (just like MOST politicians in real life, and you don't see everyone condemning all US citizens because we don't go clean them out like assassins or something), but there isn't anything they can do about that unless you expect them to go in and wave their lightsabers around to threaten the politicians into submission. As if Palpatine wouldn't immediately twist that into his favor to say they were "trying to take over the Republic". (And oh wait—he did that in the movies! 🤷‍♀️ Funny how that works, huh?)

It doesn't matter if Anakin didn't "want" to kill kids/the Tuskens/betray Mace and his Jedi friends. What does that matter? What does it matter if he felt bad while doing it if he still DOES it? You wouldn't say a school shooter wasn't responsible for their actions just because they were sobbing the whole time they went around slaughtering everyone in the school. Anakin's responsible for his own actions, and just because he might feel "bad" doesn't let him off the hook. Even when he was masquerading as 'Vader.' Who cares if he was miserable 24/7? l’ll tell you his victims sure didn't when he decapitated them with his lightsaber or snapped their spines.

I'm not arguing about the people that forgave Anakin. I'm arguing over condemning people as "brats" that don't. (I personally think it's a copout to have Leia forgive him after reading some diary, so l'm glad at the least apparently new canon has her taking her entire life to get there). My point is there is nothing that makes Anakin's victims any less if they choose not to forgive him, because forgiveness is a GIFT. It isn't something you're owed. It's funny fans keep pretending he's owed that while condemning all of the Jedi as "arrogant", because I can't think of anything more arrogant than a man who was formerly one of the worst monsters in the galaxy thinking he's "owed" forgiveness. And just as I mentioned before, the Anakin after he came back to the Light wouldn't even agree with such a notion. He may ASK. But he wouldn't call Leia a "brat" for it. It's ridiculous to think that after the horror he'd personally committed to her.

I don't really care what your thoughts are on "Darth Mouse" as that's not what this conversation is about. GL describes Palpatine as the Devil, which is why Anakin can be turned back to the Light and Palpatine can't. But there is NO DOUBT that Anakin as 'Darth Vader' is seen as 'space Hitler' throughout internet culture (the Empire/the Sith is LITERALLY based off of Nazis). If you'd take a moment to google it you would see it's already a huge staple of internet culture. That doesn't make him emotionless or without goodness (he saved Luke, after all), but it IS still true. I don't see what's so hard about acknowledging his atrocities. He was a cruel and horrible monster for most of his life, and it only makes Luke's actions all the more miraculous when he somehow gets through to Anakin and makes him consider a heel face turn in the final hour.

Lol, honestly I also think you're a pretty strange person calling one of Anakin's torture victims a "brat" just because she didn't forgive him like dear saintly Luke. There is no shame in being kind like Luke (it helped him win after all), but there is NOTHING that makes Leia a bad person for not forgiving Anakin. I think you don't seem to contemplate just how BAD that is. Her FATHER tortured her for apparently HOURS. We have no idea just what he said and did to her during this time. He could've taunted her, for all we know. And I know, I know, you might say "He didn't know she was his daughter! 🤪🤪 " But that's not the POINT. The point is how he was cruel, and only seemed care when he realized she was his flesh and blood. Anakin's lucky Leia didn't spit on his grave. Because she WASN'T consumed by her anger to the point it was unhealthy. She just didn't forgive him and never viewed him as her father as long as she lived (because BAIL ORGANA was her father in all but blood). And that is within her rights. As I keep stating, Anakin is not OWED anything. His actions at the end of ROTJ are the LEAST he can do. He should be GRATEFUL to the opportunity Luke gave him and how Obi-Wan and Yoda were saintly enough to forgive him and help him become a Force ghost, because he quite frankly didn't deserve it. But salvation isn't always about what people deserve. Just like forgiveness, it's a gift. Anakin received a gift from Luke and Obi-Wan—but he is NOT owed it from Leia. And she isn't a "brat" for not giving it to him. It is important to stick to one's beliefs and principles. Leia stuck by hers. That takes courage and strength. She loved Luke but never agreed with him about Anakin.

And I also never called Anakin as 'Vader' a maniac. I called him basically a monster. Because he WAS. He helped kill thousands of people for Palpatine on the regular and continued to help genocide Jedi over the years, while ALSO still killing more kids over the years a handful of times too, even if he usually tried to avoid it (the Kenobi Show when he purposely snapped a kid's neck in front of his mother and dragged him through the street like garbage). Ironically, the more you learn and read about Anakin's atrocities, the more Luke's reaction becomes downright insane (while still saintly/miraculous), because NOBODY else (especially in real life!) would think someone like that had a heart deep down with a sliver of care left. That's what makes it miraculous Luke got through to him.

Lol, you cannot seriously be arguing that the maintenance workers on board the Death Star were "poor little guys." I don't know if you're aware of this, but even though there were probably volunteers, on the other hand, usually half the time in the military soldiers are ASSIGNED certain things like "mopping the floors" or "latrine duty" personally—so those people STILL were probably Empire officers. And even if they weren't, they still chose to be on the abomination known as the Death Star. Their sentence may be the lightest, but unless they were put there against their will they too would ALSO be charged. And also—with your argument—you're calling Luke's actions at the end of the Original Trilogy as a genocidal act or something, when really it was a necessary act to take out a planet destroying death machine. It's amazing how certain fans can try to twist things around to try and blame the heroes for something that is the villain's fault.

Here we go again with the excuses of "if only Mace wasn't mean to poor little Anakin" then Anakin wouldn't have had to murder everyone. Lol, is Anakin incapable of cognitive thinking? Because I promise you that if I was Ahsoka and heard that Anakin's reasoning for trying to kill me at one point in Rebels and betraying all of his friends is because a few people were "mean to him" I would just be pissed off at the gall of him to not take responsibility for his own actions. Even if a few people WERE mean to Anakin, that still doesn't give him the right to go on a murderous rampage. All his actions are still on him. That's like saying a school shooter is justified in his actions just because he was bullied. You calling Anakin a "Trojan horse" as if he planned any of that and wasn't just riding by the seat of his pants doesn't really make sense. Anakin didn't plan anything, and if you're arguing that BS theory that Anakin "balanced" the Force by genociding the Light Side to have it be even with the Dark Side (not true anyway since there were still more Light Siders than Dark Siders), then I am sad to say that you are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️

There is no way that "genocide is good, actually!" is the main theme GL had for a children's Trilogy. Anakin completed the prophecy when he finally got off his ass to kill Palpatine. He could've done that in Palpatine's office, or years down the line—either way, the outcome to complete the prophecy is the same: the eradication of the Sith. No more. No less.

Quite frankly, I think it's pretty gross to blame a culture for their own genocide, so the galactic community isn't doing itself any favors at that point anyway (including the SW community. It's always been a baffling fandom opinion to me). And despite what you and other fans may believe—the Jedi shouldn't have to CHANGE their entire culture/way of life for the sake of one man (Anakin) OR the galaxy's inhabitants who don't even TRY to understand them anyway (funny how Jedi are blamed for not understanding citizens, but what citizens try to understand them?).

They are not obligated to change their culture just for the right not to be murdered by a genocidal man on a temper tantrum.

Yeah, it's not surprising there were some among the population who "rejoiced" the fall of the Order. The war affected people's livelihoods and lives, and people get REAL greedy real fast when their day to day lives are affected by something. So yeah, it's no wonder they listened to Palpatine's propaganda to make the Jedi their scapegoat. Still pretty gross and disgusting, of course, but I can see how it came to be that way. Pretty ironic how people seemed to eventually miss the Jedi when they were gone, huh? It's not so fun dealing with an enemy (The Empire) when no space monk is standing protectively in front of you with a laser sword.

You DO know it's canon there were only 10,000 Jedi (not counting younglings and retired Masters) in a galaxy of TRILLIONS, right? It's illogical to expect them to be able to single handedly end slavery throughout the galaxy (especially in the Outer Rim where the Senate won't help them), or to expect them to be able to solve every damn problem in the universe like poverty (the lower levels of Coruscant). They helped people when they could. I don't know how, but you've seemed to have forgotten (just like most fans) that the Jedi ALWAYS tried to help. Even to the very end of their lives. It only makes it more gross to blame them for their own genocide. Lol, Luke barely knew shit about them except what he managed to scrounge up that hadn't been purged by the Empire (and a lot of that is from Legends authors, who didn't particularly like the Jedi anyway, so of course they'd write it like that and not as GL's vision of them being the heroes). The clones were treated terribly, and the Jedi did everything they could to make their lives easier (unless you'd prefer they sit on their asses out of the war to leave the clones under the command of people like Tarkin who didn't give a shit about them?), and it's illogical to blame them for the clones's plight. The SENATE are the corrupt ones and it's THEIR job to fix poverty and slavery and give the clones their rights. THEY are the actual villains of the prequels (besides the Sith), which is exactly what GL wanted to present to show the moral decay of democracy. And yet somehow people missed that and thought he was saying—"No, actually, it's the genocide victims who are wrong, guys!" when that couldn't be farther from accurate.

Dear LORD, here we go again with the excuses for Anakin's actions. Anakin "couldn't trust" Obi-Wan because of something kinda snippy/mean that Obi-Wan said when he was a TEENAGER?(The “pathetic life form/he’s dangerous line”, which he said when he was jealous/also—again—a teenager). Wow, way to hold a grudge. Lol. Doesn't that go against your whole argument about "forgiveness?" Didn't Obi-Wan's following actions towards Anakin then on in treating him like a brother show NOTHING about his care for him? Come on now. Let's be serious.

Why the hell WOULDN'T Obi-Wan go after Anakin? As stated beforehand, Anakin was DANGEROUS at that point, and needed to be put down. Anakin went against his fate to destroy the Sith, which put the prophecy on hold for a bit, so yeah, there was a "plan", which is why he lived, but that doesn't mean he wasn't dangerous and still didn't deserve to die at that point in time. He'd just killed kids like animals hours earlier. Again: not exactly husband/father material anymore.

Again, I feel like the implication here is that you're hinting that everyone misinterpreted the prophecy and that Anakin's fate was to bring "balance" by becoming a genocidal monster and "evening the score", and I am sad to say that you are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️ It's not accurate to state GL's original intent to a children's trilogy is that genocide to "even the score" was the correct answer. As stated again: Anakin completed the prophecy when he destroyed the Sith (ie; him and Palpatine). Full stop.

Hmmmm, you're doing a whole lot of speculation on how Leia "might" react if she was put in Anakin's situation, but not actually taking into account how everyone makes their own decisions and people can react differently to things at the end of the day. This just feels like another way you're trying to excuse Anakin's actions and condemn Leia for her bitterness towards Anakin just because: "Oh, if only that brat went what he went through! 🤪 " And such an argument—in the nicest way I can think possible—feels like the platitudes children tell themselves when angry at their parents. ALL of your and rabid Anakin fans's arguments are, because it all boils down to: "It wasn't HIS Fault! It was THIS person's! Because they were MEAN to him and he got BULLIED! And all his friends didn't understand him (even when it's obvious they reached out plenty of times and tried)!" It's just a very tired and frankly going in circles argument. You keep bringing up all these external factors as if the Jedi didn't try at all to offer Anakin coping mechanisms (Yoda literally offered them, and his advice—whether you or others want to admit it or not—makes sense. In war, you sometimes have to be prepared you might lose someone, and with the vague knowledge Anakin gave him, I'm pretty sure Yoda thought Anakin was talking about Obi-Wan. If Yoda knew it was about Padmé, no shit he'd probably have different advice). Anakin's life was not horrible at the Temple. He had a horrible childhood and that would fuck anyone's head up and leave a scar, but once at the Temple he was offered a whole range of different options to receive help. The only difference here is that you just don't AGREE with the Jedi's beliefs in how they go about helping people control their emotions so they don't lash out at people.

Maybe a few people (kids) at the Temple said a few things to Anakin that could be bullying (and I've only seen ONE comic related to that), but it's ridiculous to assume that the entire Jedi Order hated him. It's illogical to think that, and it's just like the childish notion fans have that Mace (who you call a "motherfucker" for... again, what? Treating Anakin like everyone else and not God's gift?) hated or was jealous of Anakin just because he didn't tell him "yes" all the time.

The point is, Anakin's life was fine at the Temple. Maybe he got a little isolated and lonely, but it's not like people didn't reach out. Anakin just had trouble reaching back. And all of those excuses don't let him off the hook for his genocidal actions, which you still seem to be twisting yourself into knots to try and do. THAT is childish. Not Leia judging Anakin for who he was when she had the misfortune of being tortured by him. You're plain lying to yourself if you think you wouldn't react just like Leia in real life. Most people are not gonna be wondering to themselves why the "poor little serial killer" did what he did to their family.

Just as stated before, Anakin honestly didn't deserve shit at the end of his life.

He'd betrayed everyone he'd ever known and thrown them all away (Rex, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan, Padmé, the Jedi/501st, R2, etc) like complete garbage. He helped genocide the Jedi—the very Order that took him in from slavery—and then spent those next 20 years hunting them down like animals, while also in his free time killing whoever Palpatine pointed him to like a lapdog just because he was depressed and pissed he'd screwed up his own life. He'd murdered thousands of kids at that point (literally monstrous and unforgivable for most people. Certainly me. Which only makes Luke's forgiveness more meaningful) and there is a comic where he hunted down a Jedi just for the sheer purpose of ripping his youngling out of the man's arms so he could let Palpatine turn the baby into an Inquisitor.

I am sure there are compilations on YouTube of all the people Anakin killed and the people he'd tortured or made jokes at while he smirked over their bodies. Come back and watch those and then tell me again he "deserved" to find peace. Lol, Anakin didn't deserve shit.

And I know that me saying that will probably make you think I hate his character. I don't. Anakin's character is very dear to me and I'm GLAD he found peace at the end of his life. I'm just under no delusions that he was "redeemed" in any sense of the word that wasn't in Luke's eyes alone or that Anakin actually "deserved" peace, when it should be completely obvious he deserved to be condemned to the farthest pits of Hell. As I keep repeating again and again: Anakin's 'redemption' and forgiveness are GIFTS. It's not something he is owed or something he even deserves. It's something he's given from the people around him who are quite frankly better people than he ever was in his entire life. Luke taught him how to be selfless at the end of his life. Because of his trauma as a slave, Anakin never wanted to do that beforehand from the fear of being weak again, no matter how many tried to help. But Luke did, and he succeeded with getting through to Anakin and making him finally get off his ass to make the right choice.

Again, The Force may have a "plan" but that doesn't mean people don't have free will. Otherwise, they'd all just be mindless puppets walking around spouting nonsense. That's just another copout to try and excuse Anakin's genocidal actions and say it wasn't his fault because it was his "fate". It wasn't. His fate was to destroy the Sith (and NOTHING else, despite what you apparently believe about a BS argument that I admit is common in fanon that Anakin "evening the playing field" was his destiny or something). He tripped and dragged his heels on that for twenty years before finally completing the prophecy in the final hour before his death. No more, no less.

It's childish to not take responsibility for your actions. It's why even though I love his character l'm not gonna treat Anakin like he was a "poor little guy" who didn't have a brain. He had options and a support system (Obi-Wan/Ahsoka/Padmé/Rex/R2/etc) he could've reached out to if he really wanted to. But he didn't because he just wanted to be told he was right. That's on him and no one else, as I keep saying over and over, despite how many excuses for him you try to bring up. I will repeat again: you give Anakin a lot of grace, but apparently none to Leia herself. Why is that? It feels pretty hypocritical. It also feels pretty hypocritical to judge and blame the Jedi in one breath saying they "lost their way (incorrect)", while in another breath embracing their very own beliefs on love and forgiveness. So, which is it? Do you think the Jedi had a wisdom and empathy for forgiveness, or do you think they "lost their way?" You can't have both and pick and choose based off how you want to excuse and justify Anakin's behavior.

Ahhhh, and THERE it is. See, I knew this gross argument (that I admit is a common fandom opinion) was hiding in there somewhere! I'm honestly not going to give this opinion much time, because at the end of the day you and everyone else who believe it are objectively wrong. 🤷‍♀️ You wanna know how I know that? Because it's genocide apologia. And at the end of the day, when you say the whole purpose GL made for Anakin's story and the theme of SW is that "genocide is good actually!", all I have to do to refute that is to remind you and others that this is a CHILDREN'S trilogy and from the words of GL himself; SW's main theme is about hope.

So because of that, this gross "theory" is shown for what it is: immoral, gross and just plain wrong genocide apologia. 🤷‍♀️ It's also just wrong in general, because Anakin killed all the Sith at the end of the Original Trilogy, and it's now canon more than two Light Siders were still alive at the time, so that would be "uneven scales" which goes against this immoral genocide apologia theory to begin with.

Ahhh, would you look at that! You've had the gall to bring up another gross argument similar to your earlier one (which is a common fandom one, I'll admit) that Anakin showed "mercy" to the younglings when killing them, when it's obvious that's incorrect and he didn't show them anything but cruelty. And now you're giving this type of similar gross argument that genocide survivors were "freed" from the "slavery" of their own culture! I gotta hand it to you, it's a common SW fan belief, but every time I hear it, I still get amazed at the gall of someone who truly believes this is accurate each and every time. Because it's obvious you don't agree with their culture (not saying I'd be a good Jedi either, but the point remains), which is why you think them being "freed" from their culture is better for them so the genocide survivors can make "real families" because you don't view the Jedi as family! Because you only believe in the basic family dynamic. So yeah, this opinion is also immoral and wrong obviously, because it tries to twist Anakin's and the Empire's genocidal actions as "benevolent" and "cleansing the Order for something new." Which is, again, genocide apologia, which proves you are wrong, because it's illogical that genocide apologia would be the theme of a children's trilogy about hope.

A lot of these things you bring up about Anakin and Palagueis are things l'm not even sure are actually canon anymore or if they're from Legends. Even if they are canon, these again are not excuses for his actions just because Anakin may have had a penchant for darkness. Even if he did, it's still his responsibility to learn how to control it and not hurt people. Many Jedi need to be guided on the right path to not follow evil, which is what the Jedi already did every day. With all of the thousands of Jedi trained and only a handful turning to the Dark Side, that seems like a pretty good record. The Jedi didn't "lose their way." This is a tired and BS argument that I admit Filoni has brewed the more GL gave him more leeway with SW, because Filoni doesn't view the Jedi as heroes in the right like GL did. There is nothing to show they lost their way just because they joined the war, because they literally were given that choice or sitting on their asses to watch the galaxy burn, and you bet your ass if they did that then Palpatine would spin it around to the public: "Look at how they sit in their ivory towers and watch you suffer under the Separatists's hands! 🤪🤪” So there is literally no way they can win here. If you're talking about how some of their methods got dirty (trying to mind trick the bounty hunter), firstly: they were literally trying to save their own children from being tortured/experimented on/enslaved, which I'm pretty sure gives them some slack (unless you're only willing to give that to Anakin?). Secondly, Anakin also got his hands dirty plenty of times in the war, and is conveniently not criticized by the fandom as much as the Jedi are. Ironic, huh?

Anakin could've told Obi-Wan anything and Obi-Wan would've helped him. Anakin knew that. Anakin just didn't want to risk losing his Jedi authority in the Order, because he didn't want to have to choose between a life with Padmé and being a powerful Jedi. If he cared about Padme completely selflessly, why didn't he just admit he was married and ask the Jedi to help Padmé and make sure she stayed alive through their Jedi healers? That was an option.

He literally risked Padme's life because he keeps sitting on the fence to try and have both. Because despite what you and some of his fans believe—Anakin isn't OWED both. He doesn't deserve everything in the world just because he is the oh so mighty "Chosen One/Hero With No Fear". A culture shouldn't have to change their entire way of life just for one man to continue being married and to have his cake and eat it too by staying in the Order. Even in real life, priests still aren't allowed to practice and be married. That doesn't mean they're being "repressed" or that they're under some type of horrible "slavery" to suppress their emotions. It's just the rules of that culture. If Anakin didn't like the rules of the Jedi, he should've just left after getting their help to keep Padmé and his kids safe. But he didn't because he wanted to keep both. That’s on him. Not his victims.

I mean, yeah, no duh the Jedi Order would’ve had some problems after killing Palpatine and having to prove they he was a Sith that acted on both sides of the war. Palpatine did that really well, but it’s a bit illogical to assume they wouldn’t eventually find evidence in his office somewhere or on his data files. He did the things he did by planning his schemes some type of way. And yeah, for some insane reason being a Sith Lord “wasn’t illegal”, but being controlling of both sides of the war IS, which they could’ve proved after a while. So, if you are trying to argue that Anakin’s actions were for the “better” because it would’ve been too “hard” for the Jedi otherwise—you are still objectively wrong this way. 🤷‍♀️ It’s also just another way to try and excuse Anakin by pretending his actions that day on the final day of freedom of democracy didn’t matter, when it’s obvious that they very clearly did. If Anakin hadn’t cut off Mace’s hand, the war would’ve been won. Therefore, everything that goes bad in the galaxy is legit Anakin’s fault. 🤷‍♀️ Of course Palpatine has the highest blame because he’s the mastermind, but betrayers/backstabbing is always a worse breed of crime, because it always comes from a friend, which is what Anakin was to the Jedi/Obi-Wan/Ahsoka/Rex/Padmé/501st. He legit ruins all of his friends’s lives with that one swing to cut off Mace’s hand. Trying to paint it as anything else is simply incorrect, and takes away from his ‘redemption’ at the end of the Original Trilogy by trying to pretend he’s a “poor little guy” who had no choice.

Anakin could’ve “defeated” Palpatine multiple ways. Just as I mentioned before, just because The Force had a “plan” doesn’t mean that everyone was puppets walking around on a string, because then free will wouldn’t exist. Anakin could’ve helped defeat Palpatine in his office that day in Revenge of The Sith by either taking the swing himself or either standing back and just letting Mace finish the job. He’s still The Chosen One that way, because his choice is still literally the defining action that saves democracy that way. He also could defeat him the way he does in the Original Trilogy, which is taking him by surprise to save Luke by throwing him down the reactor shaft to kill Palpatine. Either way gets the job done. He doesn’t need to physically fight Palpatine to get it done himself. He’s just the catalyst for what happens to the galaxy because of HIS choices alone, which proves how he has agency and understood why all his actions were wrong and just didn’t care. He didn’t need Luke for that in Palpatine’s office. All he had to do was grow a spine and let Mace take the final swing. He failed to do that and doomed the galaxy for twenty years because of it. 🤷‍♀️

Ahhh, there you go again with the gall to pretend that what Anakin did was “mercy” for the younglings just because the imperials would’ve done horrible things to them too! Gotta hand it to you, one has to have a lot of nerve to believe such an argument such as this (which I acknowledge is a common opinion among rabid Anakin fans), but it’s still gross and hilariously wrong every time I hear it repeated. So, just as I stated to you before: you and anyone else who has this opinion is WRONG, because obviously Anakin murdering little kids like animals is not a mercy. Anyone with any type of heart and soul should be able to realize that. What Anakin did is not and will never be a “mercy”. It was a cruel and dehumanizing act towards kids who were begging for his help. What would ACTUALLY have been mercy is what I stated before: Anakin snapping out of it to save the kids and lead them out of the Temple to save their lives. THAT is mercy. The only reason you continue to spout this BS argument that is common among rabid Anakin fans is to try and twist yourself into knots to deny Anakin agency and pretend he had “no choice” but to kill the kids for “mercy”, when it’s clear that this opinion of yours and anyone else who believes it is gross, immoral, and just plain wrong. 🤷‍♀️ It’s as simple as that.

Anakin WAS taught to understand, accept and manage his emotions correctly. That’s LITERALLY what “control” means: MANAGING your emotions so you don’t lash out at people in your anger, which is what the Jedi always warned their members against doing. The only difference here is that you just don’t agree with their beliefs, and are inadvertently portraying them as a culture who “suppresses” their emotions, when from the movies and TCW show it’s obvious that you and anyone who has this opinion is wrong. 🤷‍♀️ There are literally scenes that show it’s about being MINDFUL of your emotions so you don’t let them control you. Not to pretend they don’t exist. Anakin had all of these Jedi teachings available to him. The only difference is that he thought he was above the rules and that they didn’t apply to him. All of which eventually bit him in the ass, because he refused to listen to anyone and be told “no” without getting angry.

Qui-Gon was kind to Anakin, and Anakin had a fondness for him, but it is NOT canon that if Qui-Gon lived Anakin wouldn’t have fallen. That’s just a fanon theory that fans pretend is canon. You know how I know this? Because if you look it up, George Lucas straight up SAYS in interviews that Qui-Gon living wouldn’t have changed anything for Anakin not falling to the Dark Side. The “Duel of the Fates” is just what the song writer titled the song as a metaphor for the fight between light and darkness, but that doesn’t mean that because Qui-Gon died it was impossible for Anakin to grow a brain and a conscience and make choices of his own. GL literally knows better, because he’s the writer, which is what SW fans always say, right? Because anyone that believes that Qui-Gon dying “sealed Anakin’s fate” is simply using it as another copout/excuse for Anakin’s actions to pretend like all of his choices weren’t his own fault. Obi-Wan was a fine teacher for Anakin, and just because he wasn’t perfect didn’t mean he “failed” him. The truth is that Obi-Wan did everything he could, but Anakin refused to accept Obi-Wan’s help half the time. That’s on him and nobody else. He failed Obi-Wan. Not the other way around. Obi-Wan only thinks he “failed” Anakin out of misplaced guilt because he’s a better person than Anakin could ever hope to be who actually felt guilt for his actions, when Anakin in turn during that time at least felt nothing but entitlement and anger towards friends who wouldn’t join him on the Dark Side.

Dooku also doesn’t have any room to talk. He might’ve noticed corruption in the Senate, but the second Dooku joined the Sith and the Separatists and started helping enslave planets and killing people, he lost all credibility and became a big old hypocrite, just like Anakin became after ROTS.

So far, every single opinion you have given is just one excuse after another for Anakin’s actions to try and put the blame on someone else (usually the victims of his genocidal atrocities). And all of them are incorrect and immoral and wrong. 🤷‍♀️ Because half of it is genocide apologia or trying to twist Anakin’s actions from killing the younglings as “benevolent mercy”, when that is obviously WRONG and the biggest copout I have ever heard in my life. You also try to excuse Dooku’s actions, which is also wrong, because Dooku is a literal war criminal at the end of ROTS, so all of his opinions mean squat at that point, because he’d become the very thing he’d hated at that point, just like Anakin would eventually come to be from his own shitty choices. Therefore, every single thing you have brought up is not “facts.” It is simply an opinion that has become huge in fandom spaces because people like Anakin’s character and are biased against him and want to pretend he was a “poor little guy” who couldn’t make decisions, when it is clear there were a million other decisions he could’ve made.

I will then bring this around back to my original point: Leia Organa is not a “brat” for choosing not to forgive someone who was once one of the biggest monsters in the galaxy who TORTURED her (her own flesh and blood FATHER) just because Anakin might’ve had a hard childhood or a few people “being mean to him.” She doesn’t owe him anything, because specifically everything that had gone wrong in the galaxy up to that point was ANAKIN’S fault, and it is the LEAST he can do to kill Palpatine and fix it, so she doesn’t owe him anything for him killing the Emperor either. It’s great Luke found it in his heart to forgive Anakin, but it will NEVER be acceptable to call Leia a “bad person” for not forgiving Anakin, who is canonically the space Hitler (proven) of the Star Wars galaxy. She doesn’t owe him shit, and again: Anakin is lucky she didn’t spit on his grave.

Again: this doesn’t mean I hate Anakin’s character. But unlike you, when I like a character, I don’t need to excuse their every action to pretend they are “poor little guys.” Anakin was a horrible monster for most of his life, but I’m still GLAD he found salvation and peace in the afterlife. But he did NOT deserve it. He deserved to be condemned to the farthest pits of Hell, and I am under no delusions about that. He’s lucky the people around him (Luke, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka) are far better people than he ever was while he was alive and were able to find it in their hearts to offer him forgiveness, because he never showed them that same kindness or grace, and obviously didn’t deserve their love or loyalty. It makes it all the more saintly that they gave it to him.

​You’re correct that I said earlier I didn’t want to continue this conversation because I feel like we’re going in circles. But if you’ll recall, I also stated if you kept messaging me then I would respond to the best of my abilities.

My final message to you on my points is the one I left before and also this following one, and then I will wish you farewell, considering we’re obviously never going to agree. Maybe someday someone will come across this thread and read my thoughts and see the logic in not believing genocide apologia is the theme of a CHILDREN’S series about hope. Either way, the conversation is basically finished. I’m not going to repeat everything I have said that discredits your points again, as nothing I’ve said has gotten through to you apparently. The reason in my last message I brought my point back around to Leia not being what you call a “brat” is because that was the original reason I replied to you to begin with. The other stuff in this final comment you send about Leia “owing” Anakin for her birth, which is why she “owes” him forgiveness is also wrong as well for all of the reasons I stated earlier. The parent argument is just another excuse because Anakin was a deadbeat dad. Lots of kids write off their terrible parents every day.

Every other thing you bring up about the Jedi and Mace and the Council has already been refuted by my points earlier to show them as incorrect, even if you don’t agree. The final thing is of course you repeating Anakin has no agency and shouldn’t be blamed because the Force had a “plan”, but again, I’ve already proven in my earlier messages that type of immoral and genocide apologia argument about it being his “destiny” to genocide the Light Side is wrong, because—again—Star Wars is a CHILDREN’S series at the end of the day, and it is completely illogical and absurd that “genocide is good, actually!” is the main theme of a CHILDREN’S trilogy about hope.

I will respond to you no further now. I am satisfied with the points I have made debunking your claims, and will definitely come back to this as a reference if I need to debate someone in the future. I will only leave you with a vague thanks that things managed to stay mostly civil besides us calling each other “strange”. But then again, I know we were both probably getting annoyed. Still, it’s a rare thing to have a mostly polite debate on the internet, so I’ll give credit where credit’s due. 👍 Goodbye, and hope your day is well.

-

As you can see, there’s a lot of genocide apologia in this guy’s arguments (literally disgusting), and there were times I got a little snippy (it gets frustrating defending genocide survivors over and over), but for the most part, I tried to be polite, because I wanted all my points to remain strong. If you are willing to listen to my perspective, I think you can admit some of his arguments echo your own, even if you’re obviously not as blunt and frankly gross about it as him.

Take the show The Acolyte, and how it’s supporters argue that it’s only “critiquing” the Jedi and showing them as “flawed”, which is what you wanted to get at when you sent this ask, no? To “make sure that in discussing the Jedi we remember the good and bad.” Well, my response is… why is that needed? You’ve seen all my points and examples about how being anti Jedi is the larger fandom opinion and how Order 66 is quietly thought to be partly “their fault”, which is literally one of the grossest opinions to have and I’ll never sugarcoat that. So, why is it NEEDED to point out their “flaws” with every post on how they didn’t deserve their genocide? Why does that matter? Why can’t it just be agreement: the Jedi didn’t deserve to be slaughtered like animals? Why is it “oh, but we must remember that they were flawedddd and complacenttttt. 😔💔 After all, if only they just hadn’t been mean to poor Anakinnnn. Then he wouldn’t have been ‘forced’ to help murder them all. 😔💔” Like… do you not HEAR how condescending that sounds? 😭🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Why do the Jedi have to be the “perfect victims” for fans, otherwise they either “deserved what they got” or were “arrogant” and “brought it on themselves?” Why aren’t the MURDERERS/BETRAYERS blamed for the collapse of a galaxy (Anakin and Palpatine), when THEY were the ones responsible and who pulled the trigger? The point is that it’s frankly just weird how much certain fans bring up that “oh, don’t forget they were flawedddd! 🤪🤪🤪” on a post that is mourning the loss of their culture. I promise you that your “special little blorbos” Kanan and Ahsoka (the REAL her that hasn’t become Filoni’s mouthpiece) would probably not enjoy the way you describe them as “oh, but YOU’RE one of the good ones!” And I say that with all the politeness I can manage.

Funnily enough, the writer of The Acolyte, LH, kind of echoes your sentiments, which just aren’t as “benevolent” as you may genuinely believe. In her show, there’s no DEPTH or honestly real THEMES of SW put into the show. It’s all flipped around to the Dark Side being “liberating”, which is so far from true it’s literally laughable. 😭😒 And I’m getting ticked off that when genuine criticism from pro jedi fans come up, somebody just HAS to say—“This show is just portraying the Jedi as not perfect! 😌” 😬😤🫠 And I swear I’m gonna lose it one day, because it portrays the Jedi as more than imperfect. It portrays them as emotionally repressed, barely competent “space cops”. 🙄 (Fucking HATE that term antis use for them so much, because it’s what they argue about saying the Jedi ‘deserved’ their genocide because they’re an ‘institution’ and not a “real” family. 😬😬🤬🤬 Ohhhh, I’m gonna go off on someone one day. Lol.) And these are just my frustrations. It’s not personally directed at you at the moment, anon. It’s just me kind of venting all my thoughts on this post.

I even had a fairly decent comment on my tumblr post about my critique of The Acolyte from a fan trying to save it, and they basically said the same thing and that it’s from the Sith perspective so it’s skewed. But it’s not. 😭😭 Because the showrunner’s views literally mirror the villain’s and then they become her mouthpieces. The show is completely anti Jedi while trying to pretend in a condescending way that it’s only Jedi critical in a way like—“Ah, those poor little culty Jedi. 😔😔💔 Some had good hearts… but their culture doomed them to be wiped out… 😔💔” 😒🙄😤🤬

I just… fucking HATE that show. 😭 SO much. And I know certain fans loved it, so I apologize if people enjoyed at least certain parts, but I’ve read a tumblr post that broke down the show really well and how hollow it is. The characters barely have time to interact and get to know one another before they’re all killed off (Yord and Jecki and Sol, who were fan favorites), until only Osha and Quimir remain—because at the end of the day, THAT’S what this whole stupid show was about. 😭🤦‍♀️ It was about a Reylo fanfic writer getting to play in her sandbox.

Anyway, my point is I don’t think you’re “anti Jedi”, anon. I think you’re “Jedi critical”, yes. But not in the benevolent way you believe. I think you are unknowingly being benevolently condescending in the way The Acolyte tries to be by saying, “Ooohhh, those poor, culty Jedi. 💔😔😔😔 If only they weren’t so emotionally repressed like robots (dehumanization)… maybe then they could’ve changed their culture so they didn’t have to be ‘cleansed’ for a ‘better galaxy’. 😔💔💔” It’s just… stuff like that. 😭🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Which is… SO exhausting for us pro Jedi fans to hear over and over and over like it’s a valid take, when it’s just really not. But I wanted to explain my thoughts in a way I hope was mostly polite. I probably sound a little bit snippy, but it’s just because I’m frustrated at having to defend genocide victims again. That’s all.

I guess I would just… encourage you to rethink your thoughts? Because when you take into account what the Sith/Empire represent (Nazis) and then what the Jedi genocide is a metaphor of… your ‘argument’ looks less and less cute. 🤷‍♀️😭 I’m just saying. Some may not like me comparing it to real life, but there are plenty of Asian fans/aroace fans/Jewish fans that heavily relate to the Jedi for this very reason, and I refuse to allow their opinions to be silenced, because fiction is for everyone, and SW has ALWAYS been political, which means it’s literally MADE to be compared to real life.

Anyway, I hope this long meta post maybe changed some minds, if not your own. I’m gonna leave links to other big pro Jedi blogs that have better and more organized meta posts than me about this stuff, where they go in depth explaining how the Jedi are the good guys and how what happened in the Prequels was never about “the genocide victims are in the wrong, actually!” and was more about the SENATE becoming corrupt and rotting democracy from the inside out, which made it so easy for Palpatine to slither into power. 10,000 Jedi aren’t gonna easily change that. But the politicians CAN. They were just too selfish to do so. The Senate/Sith are the real villains of the Prequel trilogy. Not the Jedi (literal genocide victims). Anything less than viewing it like this is just… wrong. 😭🤷‍♀️

Here are the big Pro Jedi meta blogs I talked about:

-

Tags:

@ensomnia

@heartfairy

@fangirlteallie

@shoniwake

@lemons-to-limes

@lexskiss

@spidersaye

@selenaftmarvel

@silverwoodj

@ajtaals

[clonemando]

alrigth so plz ignore this if you don't like the prompt-

but imagine the 501st in a Order 66 fix-it AU where the empire never happened and eyeryone lived dealing with Jedi younglings looking at them like they hung the stars. (listen, those kids already idolized Anakin to some extend so there is solid reason to believe that they ALSO idolized these super cool clone guys who are super strong and go on super cool adventures to defend the galaxy)

This was a really fun prompt and I could probably write about this forever but here's a little something that was spawned from your prompt. In this AU Palps is murdered off screen and the Jedi added the Clones to the order under a new branch.

Rex sighed as he carefully made his way through the temple searching for Fives. He knew that letting his ARCs loose for even a minute was asking for trouble but Cody had invited him out and now they were citizens, they had rights and their own bank accounts through the Jedi order, which meant they could buy things. He couldn't say no to drinks and shopping and complaining about their new safe jobs in the Jedi Security Force. Well safer anyway. Nothing would ever be 100% safe when it came to the Jedi.

The point was, now he was sober and needed Fives' to finish his own forms from their last mission so he could do his own work but his ARC was nowhere to be found in the new Clone wing of the temple. He had asked around and been told that a group of younglings had kidnapped Fives and dragged him away to their clan dorms which had led him all over the temple now.

"Trooper Fives is it really true you fought off the Sith lord all by yourself?" A little voice asked excitedly as Rex walked in and Fives grinned.

"I heard he stole the Sith Lord's lightsaber and stabbed him with it so hard the Sith EXPLODED!" Another youngling added and Rex snorted causing them all to look up at him.

"Are you lying to the Jedi cadets Fives?" He asked crossing his arms as all the kids gasped and immediately abandoned their current perches crawling over Fives to come surround Rex.

"You're Captain Rex aren't you? You're the the coolest trooper in all the GAR! We had a whole test about you!" One said making Rex's cheeks burn.

"He's not a Captain anymore dummy! He got promoted to a Commander after Knight Skywalker left the order to marry Senator Amidala after the war ended." Another cut in and Rex raised his hands.

"I'm not either anymore cadets, the war is over. We all retired those positions." He pointed out to hopefully stop the argument from starting.

"Yeah, he's Knight Rex now. When the Order accepted the clones into the ranks, we were given positions just like the ones you use. Do you still want to hear about how we defeated the evil Sith Lord?" Fives added giving Rex a bright grin that made Rex roll his eyes.

"Fives didn't kill the Sith, though he was there. Fox killed the Sith with help from Masters Windu, Kenobi, Koon and many others. However Fox is grumpy and hates being bothered so he made up the story that Fives killed Palpatine to keep from being in the spotlight." Rex told them and a few pouted nearly as hard as Fives was now pouting at him.

"But then why would you tell us that? Wouldn't that be giving away his secret?" One of the younglings asked and Rex nodded.

"You all have grown up together haven't you? Fox is my big brother. I have a job as his little brother to annoy him as much as possible... so I suggest you all go ask him to tell you the true story of that night and tell him that Rex sent you." He said with a wink that made them all giggle and run off to go try to find Fox.

"I'm only not mad at you for stealing my fan club because Fox is going to be livid at you now." Fives said picking himself up and Rex chuckled.

"You have green clan still sending us drawings of you with all of them from when you saved them from that rogue cleaning droid, you don't need another fan club. Now come on Knight Fives... our new positions means you have paperwork that needs to be done." He pointed out and Fives whined but let Rex drag him back toward the Clone quarters.

[half-truths-and-hyperbole-louk]

Louk's Bad Batch rewatch pt 5 !!!

Actually starting tbb now let's gooo!! It's a long ep so this is gonna be a long one so buckle up kids 💕

(edit: I decided it was way too long lmao so I'm breaking it up into 2 parts)

Bad Batch 1x01 (part 1)

fyi my phone is on 66% and I hate that very much

the way the clone wars logo burns into tbb one 👌

Depa Billaba 👑👑👑 AND BABY CALEB MY HEART 😭

"Hey clanka" ~ TECH ILYSM

Tech straight up kicks a droid just bc he can lmao iconic

knife knife knife knife

Crosshair's snow slide 🙌

Grey why are you so moody bro 😂 the regs just hate them sm

Caleb's intro of the batch 😭😍

"We're all ya need!" ~Wrecker @ me

the dad batch adopting Caleb 💕

"Execute order-" YOU SHUT UP RN

remind me why I'm doing this again lmaooo

Crosshair's body language changes a little each time the others say "order 66" and that makes me feel like the chip activates a little more each time he hears it

LIGHTSABER IN THE SNOW 💕

Poor Hunter sounds so scared when he thinks Caleb is going to kill Crosshair 😭 the way his voice changes 💔

Hunter is SUCH a dad omg

Echo translating math for Wrecker 🥺

why is Crosshair still wearing his helmet!! I hate it here

the way Hunter knows Crosshair is looking at him even with his eyes closed 👀

Crosshair with his sassy crossy arms 😂

their faces when they see the lightsaber drop 😭

why does their room smell so bad 💀💀

the board !!! show Anakin !!

LULA 💕

Tech explaining the regs programing, I wanna know if he ever saw Rex's report about Fives 🥲

Wrecker smashing Crosshair in the face with Lula 💀

"You're more machine than man, percentagewise" BRO-

Echo's dramatic sigh count is already up to like 3 lmao

👀 Omega

Palps 🤢

Tech was looking at his datapad and he still somehow noticed that Hunter was distracted

Not the imperial march 😬

Crosshair: "Republic, empire, what's the difference?" Tech: murder ???

Hunter sensing Omega !! It kinda looks like he's counting the footsteps

okay but she's just so tiny 🤲

"What's that?" ~ Wrecker @ Omega💀 bro was with a kid like yesterday and loved him, new kid comes along and he's like 🤔

Tech really scanned her 😂

Hunter with his hands on his knees!!! bending down to her level!!! what if I cried!!! 🥺

Tarkin EW 🤢

all the clones getting food idk why it's so adorable but it is

Wrecker making a scene 💀

"Hopefully not mental, clearly we'd never pass that" relatable

Omega: 😁 the batch: 🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨

she really thought they already forgot about her stop it 😭

"I like you" ~ OMEGA MAKES TECH SMILE 👀

aaaaaand Omega's adopted

Echo's so done with them all fr

Crosshair throwing his lunch tray 👌

I wanna see how the fight endeddddd

"I'm staying until he wakes up" 👀 ep 7 foreshadowing

Echo's ptsd 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Omega ptsd baby what did they do to you 💔💔

I want Azi to mention Fives to Echo so bad 🥺

"You owe me 2 credits" they're betting on Echo's survival pls 💀

Echo's sigh count: 5?

can everyone stop roasting Echo for 5 seconds ??? lmao

"Maybe this empire things not so bad after all" WRECKER DO NOT SAY THAT

"Gimme more!" ~ me @ star wars

TARKIN FOR TARGET PRACTICE NEXT PLS

the hand signals 💕

Tech's turn for a piggyback ride

Wrecker calls Tech buddy 🥺🥺

"Wrecker knife!" I'll never get over the lack of need for communication between them Wrecker just tosses it and hopes for the best

Wrecker picking Tech up 🥺🥺

aaaand I'm cutting it off here bc otherwise it's gonna be hella long

tysm to everyone who has been keeping up with these 💕💕💕 y'all are so sweet

I'll be posting part 2 of episode 1 a bit laterrr just to break it up a little hehe

[mrbubblyurchin]

Adapting Republic Commando into canon

Yes. I am doing this for fun.

RC was written for the EU, so I thought it could be fun to try to adapt some of its story into the current canon. In fact, there are only a few issues that need to be solved for this to work! Let’s begin.

1- Twi’Leks and Humans can breed

This was a rule that took place in Legends, but obviously we known Kanan and Hera had Jacen in Canon, which means there is now no reason as to why Atin and Laseema cannot.

2- CSF

In the EU, the CSF were pretty popular as the police force more than the Coruscant Guard. I figured that this doesn’t change anything in particular, maybe just that Kal says he prefers working with the CSF over the CG because he has Obrim in the CSF

3- Mandalore

So, obviously Mandalore from the EU and Mandalore from the Clone Wars are… different. Well I have a solution to this. The clones were created in 32 BBY, which was during the Phantom Menace. AKA, after Obi-Wan met Satine, well, after Sabine’s well established rule, she created Mandalore as pacifists. But, for the sake of this universe, a group of Mandalorians went to form their own ‘Mandalore’ on Kyrimorut to adhere to their more traditional Mandalorian values. Jango ruled this new Mandalore for a short time, explaining why Shysa wanted his heir, and why Shysa eventually becomes a Mandalorian ruler. This place would still be Mandalore to them, but it would be separate from the actual Mandalore of the Clone Wars Series.

Kyrimorut= New Mandalore= From Republic Commando

Mandalore= Actual Mandalore= From The Clone Wars

4- Spaarti Clones

So obviously the Spaarti Clones bred by Palps don’t exist in canon. So we are changing them to the most recent batch of clone troopers shipped off Kamino at the end of the war. Maybe still made with second generation Jango DNA. Instead of investigating the Spaarti clones, maybe Besany can find something related to Order 66. Which brings me to my next point…

5- Order 66

This is the biggest issue of canonization within the series. Because in the EU, there were no inhibitor chips. The clones just followed orders. So… what does that do here? Well… there are a few solutions.

Solution One is that they didn’t listen. The Nulls are already incredibly deviant when it comes to orders, so not a real problem there. Omega Squad is iffy, because they weren’t around any Jedi when it happened, but they knew they were going to meet up with Etain, who was a known Jedi. I could see Darman still fighting the chip, but not really for Niner, Atin, or Corr. Fi doesn’t matter since he isn’t wearing his trooper armor, and therefore doesn’t receive Order 66.

Solution Two is better. And it’s that Besany discovered the inhibitor chips based on the same report made by Rex that Ahsoka watched. She managed to access Anakin’s database or whatever cause Jaing tech skills for the win. While she did not discover the purpose of the chips or anything, she discovered they were there, and Kal hated having those chips inside his boys’ heads, and had them be removed as soon as possible in secret. Not to protect the Jedi, but just because Kal didn’t want the Kaminoans to be able to control his sons in any way. Then, when Order 66 rolled around, none of them obeyed.

So, yeah. That’s my idea on adapting RC into canon. Thank you for reading!

[cosmicmordecai]

I ain’t surprised. Ofc Saw Gerrera is hated because “He killed our favorite resident geek” and “blows up everything and makes things worse”.

Let’s ignore the fact that his team was FIRST present in the Summit with a plan to assassinate the Imperial Council in YEAR ONE of the Empire that we know, based on hindsight, were the most dangerously strategic people in the Empire that directly lead to the creation of the Death Star & the cloning technology used by Palps for the Final Order decades ahead. Despite Tech’s assertion, the Empire did NOT quite find replacements for them.

Let’s ignore the fact that his team managed to get so damn close to the most high ranking imperials whereas our MC in any media felt that was a huge risk and the mission was compromised because of TBB’s presence.

Lets ignore how in any media, despite the “big good” supporting character’s stances and complexity, it’s his ideas that are proven RIGHT in the grand scheme of thing (i.e the Jelandi relay, the Death Star’s existence, the Rebellion’s methodology which eventually lead to the resurfacing of the successors of the Empire, the First Order & Final Order under the New Republic’s watch with even more deadlier weapons than before)

Some of y’all are really out here acting like Gerrera didn’t contribute when he’s really one of the ONLY reasons the Rebellion wasn’t completely blindsighted by the Death Star. Y’all also act like he doesn’t have an ounce of tactical ability despite being trained by your FAVES outright and is, in universe, the MOST WANTED MAN BY THE EMPIRE WHO ISNT FORCE SENSITIVE.

The way some praise Luthen for being the same kind of extremist of Saw, are okay with Kallus’s heel turn, AND find reasons to placate blame of Anakin’s crones onto Jedi (Mace especially) goes to show that the real issue is how your favorite MC feels about them and people’s ability to turn into morality police & “jokingly” suggest pitchforks wherever Saw is concerned just goes to show how weird people are.

[deafblindshorty]

Sigh. You know...

I really hate that Poe was constantly berated for destroying the dreadnaught. I understand he got half the fleet and the entire bombing fleet killed, but if he hadn't, then the dreadnaught would have destroyed the remaining Resistance.

Also, not only that, but the Colossus (From Resistance) was heading to D'Qar. They got coaxium which they were completely out of from the destroyed dreadnaught. If they hadn't, gotten coaxium from the dreadnaught, the FO would have caught up to the Colossus and it would have been destroyed.

Let me remind you that the Colossus housed the husband and daughter of one of their pilots (Venisa, Immanuel, and Torra Doza) and the son of one of the surviving Senators (Kaz) who already hates the Resistance (and most likely, especially Leia).

Also, the Colossus responded to a distress call from a Resistance spy, Norath (There were still Resistance cells all over the galaxy. I'm sure he would have reported to someone, if not Leia). If they hadn't, then Norath would have been tortured for information and/or they would have gotten the info from his datapad. Then they would have made an example of him and executed him.

Also, the Sith artifact that Mika Grey and Kylo Ren were after was destroyed when Kaz accidentally stumbled upon the Sith temple. Palps could have used it for his Sith Armada and things could have turned out way worse.

Then the new Resistance recruits had to get off Dantooine to join the main Resistance. If not for the Colossus, they would all be dead.

They also destroyed a Star Destroyer with two of the most loyal FO officers, so, one less Star Destroyer to worry about.

Also, they found Exegol and destroyed Palpatine and his Sith Fleet because Poe knew a Black Market droidsmith.

I hope people (the characters, obviously, not the fans) realize this and feel like crap for berating Poe (and possibly even wishing death upon him) and apologize. Poe, of course, would forgive them, obviously.

[contentment-of-cats]

A lot of TL:DR about Star Wars

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Mando thoughts:

Cultural appropriation is imperialism. 10/10. Also, Gideon's wanting to create a Master Race of warriors is pretty predictable. The thing is, having Gideon on the Shadow Council is a fucking joke. He's in it to be the top dog and will shaft everyone else to get there.

Brendol Hux is the Fucked Order in nascent phase. Thrawn isn't tied up with these idiots, not with that 'long talk' looming when they zombify Palpatine. God, the fucking Palpatine clones were the most tiresome thing. I can see that they're building this up to support 'Somehow, Palpatine has returned!' nonsense of the sequels.

Also, there is a Shadow Council, but it's composed of competing factions. Palpatine set it up so that none of his top people would ever cooperate with one another unless there was something in it for them that would put them in the top spot. Essentially, when he needs cohesion, he has twelve assholes working on their own agenda. The FO (fucked order, final order, whatever - its sequel shit) was just the last one standing.

Thrawn has been here before in the Ascendancy Trilogy and knows how it ends, and he had a refresher course in the Thrawn 2017 trilogy. Third time is not the charm.

Palps got rid of competent, but not brilliant, officers in favor assholes jerks. The New Republic might not be able to get out of it's own way, but the Shadow Clowncil has a bunch of hairballs who can't even wipe themselves competently.

~

However, Pellaeon?

The thing is, I love that Zahn put his heart into giving us Thrawn, not just the Legends Thrawn, but a backstory. I think that books convey nuance better than television or movies, and that's why I never see movies or shows made from my favorite books. I know I'm going to be disappointed. Likewise, a lot of the Star Wars product just lost me at some point or another. It seemed to go on forever, without a point other than to keep the franchise going. I get that Filoni is probably the highest paid fanfic writer of all time, but ya know I've seen writers on Ao3 who had better plots, better characterizations, and more originality.

I fucked off the fandom again in the middle of the second sequel. I hated it, and I never saw the third. I'm entirely comfortable writing AU and reading fanfic that's better than anything Disney ever paid for.

[xinambercladx]

He's already proven he could take down one of the Bad Batch, and I'm sure he'd be up for wrangling the others. My question is... does he really want to be hired by the Empire? This is a question that's been on my mind since that one line in Book of Boba Fett. Cad Bane said, "Boba Fett is a cold blooded killer who worked for the Empire."

Was he implying his disapproval of that, or was he just using psychological tactics on Cobb Vanth to make the negotiation go his employer's way? idk. There's also the possibility Cad Bane found out about his home planet Duro getting f***ed up by General Grievous, who was under Sidious' command. (Just because he hated the space station, New Teyana, where he grew up doesn't mean he hated his home planet). Bane is a smart cookie, I think he would definitely put together that once Palps became emperor, that Palpatine and the Sith Lord Sidious were the same person. (Can you imagine Bane losing his shit on that mindblow?)

Okay. so here's another thought, devil's advocate style. The Empire is very racist, very pro-human. They disliked working with Bounty Hunters because it goes against their "We are in total control" reputation. Would the Empire even hire Cad Bane since he's a Duros? Not a very good argument, considering Darth Vader hired these guys in Empire Strikes Back...

Cad Bane is a top scum of the galaxy, so him working for the Empire I would totally believe. After all, he'll "take on any job... for the right price." He has an extremely loose moral code, and his carnal sins are pride and greed. What would surprise me MORE would be if he refused a job from the Empire. He's been burned multiple times by Sidious and his underlings but didn't seem to hold a grudge. Bane considered kidnapping children as a "small time crime", but he's a money hungry guy. Even Bane's reputation comes second to Credits. We'll get our answer soon enough. I'm looking forward to the next episode.

Guys…there’s still one major cameo from the Bad Batch season 3 trailer that has still yet to make an appearance…

The title for 3x09 is “The Harbinger,” the definition being “a person or thing that shows that something is going to happen soon, especially something bad.”

Ventress found Omega with no trouble (most likely with the Force, but still) and warned the batch that they needed to leave Pabu because they weren’t safe there.

This is obviously foreshadowing that someone is going to attempt to bring Omega back to Hemlock as an M-count target.

If there’s one bounty hunter in the whole galaxy audacious enough to attempt this job (and be successful) it’s Cad Bane.

It wouldn’t be the first time he stole force sensitive children for Palpatine…

It wouldn’t even the first time he would be kidnapping Omega either…

Force sensitive children seem to be his specialty. I’d bet on him being the one.

If you have your doubts about how dangerous he is, remember that he was the one that broke Ziro the Hutt out of prison, held the Galactic Senate and Anakin Skywalker hostage, broke into the Jedi Temple on Coruscant to steal a Holocron, held Ahsoka hostage and manipulated Anakin into opening and giving him the Holocron to save her life, kidnapped force sensitive children for Palpatine’s evil experiments and brought them to Mustafar, fought Obiwan Kenobi with Quinlan Vos’ lightsaber, and orchestrated a prison break and escaped through the morgue.

Cad Bane does not fuck around people!! He is dangerous, he’s experienced, and the groundwork has been laid. Be scared!

[madsciencestudent]

Been thinking again while doing a paint by numbers a coworker got me as a gag gift and-

While I am of the opinion that Shitsney ruined the Star Wars sequel movies and has NO business touching anything Star Wars (especially with what and who in charge they did), I don’t hate the new main characters. I like Rey, Poe, and Finn. Rey, Poe, and Finn deserve to be in a better Star Wars film. Kylo Ren doesn’t; most of the ‘bad guys’ cast doesn’t. But I think the capitalist money milkers don’t understand what the story following the original triology should be.

Look I get the name is ‘Star WARS’ but I don’t think the audience wants to see just more fighting between a democracy and an empire or an empire knock off (what doesn’t make sense because in both the OG movies and extra material we KNOW that the majority of the galaxy’s population celebrated the death of the Emperor and to quote one book ‘threw off the empire’s yoke’ IMMEDIATELY after, so the first order makes NO sense to me as they would NOT have the same resources that Palps and the empire did from slowly building themselves up out of the pre-existing government when the majority of the galaxy immediately started correcting and rebuilding a democracy). We want to see the galaxy recovering and holding those responsible accountable for the Empire’s rise and atrocities. We want to see the characters that suffered most under the Empire and were treated horribly as a result of the Empire’s propaganda (aka minority coded species/characters) pushing back against the public who went along with it and getting justice. We want to see the new government FINALLY addressing things like the Hutts and slavery and taking the side of planets not a part of the Republic when a system that is a part of the Republic is in the wrong. We want to see women and POC like Rey, Poe, and Finn standing up to the systems that oppress them/oppressed them in the past overcoming and getting justice and helping reshape the galaxy into a better, even those that existed before the Empire or just in passing. We want to see Luke, still as compassionate and caring and loving as he was always meant to be, learning more about the Force and teaching people in new ways and not being afraid of the Dark but understanding and sympathizing with it and reaching out and helping and listening to those who need it.

We, or well, at least I, want to see that recovery and HOPE that Star Wars at it’s core was always meant to be. The tragedy has already happened, and while life is tragedy at times it’s also recovery and joy, and I want to SEE that. And Shitsney either doesn’t get that, or wants to subtly send the message ‘it doesn’t matter how hard you fight and rebel because the corrupt systems of power always are stronger and will return FAST’ because it’s one of those corrupt power systems.

[half-truths-and-hyperbole-louk]

Louk's Bad Batch rewatch part 28 omg omg

mid season finale let's go batchersss 🤟

The Bad Batch 2x08

sleepy Wrecker 🤫🤲

Gonky and Echo watching Omega meditate 🥺

Omega asking Echo if he wants to try she was so innocently asking too 🥲

"I don't enjoy solitude" 💔😭

"hey boys" Rex my whole ass heart 🥰💕

lmao gives no details just is like ok meet me on coruscant like it's nbd 💀

how long has it been since they've been there ??

I'm assuming they've been there ?? idk ??

Rex introducing tbb like Cody did 🥲🤲 and Omega's little wave 💕

Echo keeping Omega back from the body, mom

the identifying number being wiped and Tech being the one to comment on not knowing that was a thing.... foreshadowing ? 👀

Echo stepping up immediately to speak in the senate 🥺

Hunter: "the senate won't listen to us, we're deserters" ... who Rampart said died in *his* attack, so the perfect people imo

"a simple data collection" right in the middle of imperial coruscant lololol ily Rex 💕

Chuchi and Omega team up 🥳🙌

they clearly don't think Chuchi is in that much danger bc they let Omega go with her ...

Omega with all her questions 🥺 she's learning everything she can

Omega's face seeing Rampart lmao meeee

he didn't even look at her 🙄

"there's nothing else she can do" HA idiot watch her go actually

Omega's run to look over the edge 🤲

"which one belongs to the clones?" heartbreaking 😫😭

I relate to Chuchi on a personal level, she cares sm about the clones 💕

Bail in dad mode keeping an eye on Omega hehe

Omega's confidence in tbb is so precious 🤲

Senator Burtoni lol blast from the past

the way she looks at Omega makes me uncomfy 👀

she gives zero fks about kamino girlll

"because I'm a clone too... it was my home .... and im angry" YES OMEGA SPEAKING UP FOR HERSELF TO A KAMINOAN I'M SO PROUD 🥳

Wrecker nearly getting zapped 👀

*mission impossible theme plays*

Wreckers saw !! bro I love it !!

Rex helping as many brothers as he can 🥺🤲

mans says he's helped "not enough" brothers... yeah but how many pls

"help's hard to come by these days..." Rex just ask him you know he'll go with you 🥲

"taking a lesson from your squad, we improvise" !!! tcw flashbacks lol I love when they have no plan 💕

knife knife knife 👀

"this is him better" Wrecker you've got this bby !!

lmao Tech controlling the cart from his datapad

Hunter's growl at Tech (again) 👀🤭

sneaky bois shhh 🤫

@anonymous-galager said Tech sounds like Crosshair in this scene hehe

regs: 'ayo someone activated the bridge' tbb + Rex: 'hey boys' they're so unserious while I'm hyperventilating 💀

the clones coming to stop tbb boys !! they're doing it for you !! 😫

Hunter: "new plan. 14, 5, 86" Wrecker: "all of them!?" I will never get tired of their plans 💕 (don't look at me plan 99 I'm not talking about you)

Rex: "we need an exit strategy" Echo: "got one, we're going over them" Rex: 😳 ??

Rex dodging blaster bolts 👌

"this should be interesting" Rex 🤝 Cody saying the same thing about tbb

Tech piloting the escape pod lmao he can literally fly anything

Rampart 🔫😈

lol he really thought he did something 💀

Omega's disguise wearing one of Chuchi's ponchos 🥰💕 Cal Kestis is coming for that poncho 👀

Rex giving Omega the data !! how much they all trust her 🥺

Rampart's whole speech full of rubbish 🙄

Omega catching her breath after running that whole way 🥺 you did good bby 💕

YES CHUCHI PLAY THAT EVIDENCE 🥳

Omega having to relive kamino being destroyed 😭💔

I PANICKED ITS PALPS 🙃

I hate that they twisted the whole thing so bad 😡😡😡

"I was following orders" well well well how the turn tables

the clones taking him away !!! it's like poetry, it rhymes 👌

Chuchi looked so defeated 😭😭😭

Omega hearing the introduction of stormtroopers ... I'm stuck in the foetal position forever 💔😫

Rex hating on palpatine hehe

"the fate of all the clones is now sealed because of us" AND THEY THINK ITS THEIR FAULT I HATE IT HERE 😫😭💔

"I will keep fighting for the clones" me too babes

I thought it was weird tbb just seemed to know Echo would go with Rex but it has taken me this long to realise they probably all discussed it while Omega was taking the data in 🙃😭

each of their lil moments with Echo 🥲

poor Omega probably blames Rex for Echo leaving 💔

"we're a squad" "we need you too" ...when I cry forever 😭

Omega literally jumping into his arms 🥺 and then wiping her tears away *screams into pillow*

the sad clone music I am in spain without the s

"keep an eye on them" ~ mom worrying about the kids

THE CROSSHAIR PARALELLS HELP-

and she's hugging Lula again 💔💔💔💔

I knew it'd be a bad idea to leave it all this close together I am gonna be an absolute wreck watching the s2 finale and going straight into s3 🙃

[mrbubblyurchin]

Challenge accepted. I thought it could be fun to try to adapt some of its story into the current canon. In fact, there are only a few issues that need to be solved for this to work! Let’s begin.

1- Twi’Leks and Humans can breed

This was a rule that took place in Legends, but obviously we known Kanan and Hera had Jacen in Canon, which means there is now no reason as to why Atin and Laseema cannot.

2- CSF

In the EU, the CSF were pretty popular as the police force more than the Coruscant Guard. I figured that this doesn’t change anything in particular, maybe just that Kal says he prefers working with the CSF over the CG because he has Obrim in the CSF

3- Mandalore

So, obviously Mandalore from the EU and Mandalore from the Clone Wars are… different. Well I have a solution to this. The clones were created in 32 BBY, which was during the Phantom Menace. AKA, after Obi-Wan met Satine, well, after Sabine’s well established rule, she created Mandalore as pacifists. But, for the sake of this universe, a group of Mandalorians went to form their own ‘Mandalore’ on Kyrimorut to adhere to their more traditional Mandalorian values. Jango ruled this new Mandalore for a short time, explaining why Shysa wanted his heir, and why Shysa eventually becomes a Mandalorian ruler. This place would still be Mandalore to them, but it would be separate from the actual Mandalore of the Clone Wars Series.

Kyrimorut= New Mandalore= From Republic Commando

Mandalore= Actual Mandalore= From The Clone Wars

4- Spaarti Clones

So obviously the Spaarti Clones bred by Palps don’t exist in canon. So we are changing them to the most recent batch of clone troopers shipped off Kamino at the end of the war. Maybe still made with second generation Jango DNA. Instead of investigating the Spaarti clones, maybe Besany can find something related to Order 66. Which brings me to my next point…

5- Order 66

This is the biggest issue of canonization within the series. Because in the EU, there were no inhibitor chips. The clones just followed orders. So… what does that do here? Well… there are a few solutions.

Solution One is that they didn’t listen. The Nulls are already incredibly deviant when it comes to orders, so not a real problem there. Omega Squad is iffy, because they weren’t around any Jedi when it happened, but they knew they were going to meet up with Etain, who was a known Jedi. I could see Darman still fighting the chip, but not really for Niner, Atin, or Corr. Fi doesn’t matter since he isn’t wearing his trooper armor, and therefore doesn’t receive Order 66.

Solution Two is better. And it’s that Besany discovered the inhibitor chips based on the same report made by Rex that Ahsoka watched. She managed to access Anakin’s database or whatever cause Jaing tech skills for the win. While she did not discover the purpose of the chips or anything, she discovered they were there, and Kal hated having those chips inside his boys’ heads, and had them be removed as soon as possible in secret. Not to protect the Jedi, but just because Kal didn’t want the Kaminoans to be able to control his sons in any way. Then, when Order 66 rolled around, none of them obeyed.

RepComm was cancelled due to the upcoming continuity changes in TCW. Lore-wise it wasn't compatible anymore.

RepComm: Hard Contact came out in 2004, RepComm game and RoTS in 2005 and the lmperial Commando came out in 2009 and then they cancelled it. And TCW started in 2008.

So yeah, treating RepComm and TCW as if they were in the same continuity is ridiculous.

If a fanfiction-writer can merge the two universe together and still make it sense, kudos to that creator. Because you can't do that without cherry-picking lore elements.

But that's one meta-hell, when you combine Repcomm with

TCW FANON.

[phoenixyfriend]

Vader Tries to Help

People encouraged me to share the dead dove concept! Yay! It’s a horrible concept with an undertone of comedic absurdity in the sense that you keep waiting to see what awful, incredibly stupid thing Vader is going to do next. Like it’s horrifying but it’s also very dumb.

By moving forward into the fic, you acknowledge that this is intended to be dark and liable to be upsetting, and that you are taking responsibility for your own engagement with the material.

This AU was helped along on discord by several parties but tbh I’m not sure how many of them actually want to be named.

Warnings: Mutual Extremely Dubious Consent (forced by a third party), drugging, irrational behavior (Vader), nonconsensual body modification, forced pregnancy, imprisonment, threatened torture of a child (not followed through on)

----------

Vader captures Obi-Wan a few years into the Empire. Because Vader is Anakin, but even worse on the emotional bullshit, he decides that he needs to keep Obi-Wan safe but harmless. Vader also got Luke in the whole 'capturing Kenobi' situation, so part of what Vader's thinking about all this is that Obi-Wan tried to protect The Baby and so Vader kind of owes him, obviously.

Palpatine lets him keep Obi-Wan "safe," because threatening Obi-Wan is a convenient way to make Vader shut up and do what he's told. Palpatine can kind of tell that threatening the toddler would make Vader lose his shit and attempt to kill good ol' Palps, so threatening the middle-aged depressed alcoholic being kept in Vader's guest room with Force-nullifying cuffs is pretty good. It's an additional layer of emotional torture on top of the electrocution of Vader himself!

Vader has Obi-Wan taking care of Luke, mostly, because Vader has Obligations and A Job, and Obi-Wan wouldn't hurt Luke, duh. He might try to escape with the kid, but he won't be successful, and Obi-Wan will definitely put Luke's safety first, so that probably won't happen.

This is all fairly normal for a variety of AUs, granted, and not very dark.

But see, Obi-Wan behaves. He's aware of how tenuous the situation is for him and his charge, so he plays nice. And Vader decides to reward that.

By giving him Cody.

There's an implied thought process there that Obi-Wan was fond of Cody, and Cody was fond back, and now that the Jedi aren't around, they can follow through instead of worrying about some silly Code. Vader's nullified the orders to kill all the Jedi, of course, possibly dosed their food with an aphrodisiac so they don't try to talk themselves out of What They Obviously Want.

Now, we’re going to make it a little darker, because why not make things worse by having Vader try to make things better?

Vader somehow twisted himself around to encouraging them to have a baby. This is accomplished through a combination of Sith Magic and nonconsensual surgery, and lots of questionable drugs.

Obi-Wan just wakes up in a hospital bed with a womb one morning, and is informed of the surgery then and there, after it’s already happened. The droid telling him about it is just like "in the Lord Vader's infinite kindness--" and Obi-Wan just.

Anakin.

What the fuck.

What in the actual fuck made you think this was a good idea.

(The Sith Chemicals, probably.)

I feel like Palpatine would maybe even order the pregnancy induction just to torture them by proxy because that's like eight levels of Fuck No and he barely has to do anything except tell Vader that he'd like to see what kind of children a Jedi Master like Obi-Wan has.

Luke needs friends, doesn't he?

Obi-Wan is having some very complicated emotions about all of this because Vader is, in his own absolutely insane way, trying to help.

Anakin wanted babies and Padme wanted babies so clearly, if Obi-Wan and Cody are in love, then they also want babies!

Cody and Obi-Wan very well might not be in love. Anakin definitely could have misinterpreted. It’s probably more angsty if they're just friends who ended up in this bullshit together.

(He's taking baby fever to new and somewhat horrifying heights, because... he would adore Obi's kids.)

(His family button is suprisingly large for a mass murderer.)

Vader Kindly Informs Bail That Obi-Wan Is Alive And Unharmed. Bail was a friend of Obi-Wan's, telling him this is only helpful and will keep Alderaan from getting more rebellious out of personal insult. Obviously.

Vader is almost offended when Bail implies he might hurt Obi-Wan. He kept his son safe, he owes him. Speaking of, don’t you have a child? How old is she, again? It would be Good for her to make friends, wouldn’t it? :)

Palpatine is just like... sitting back and eating evil popcorn as Vader runs around, ruining people's lives by trying to be less of The Worst than before.

Palps barely has to do anything, Anakin's fucking it up on his own!

Could have been just a sly "Kenobi is so attached to young Luke, but now that you've been reunited with your son, perhaps he'd be happier with a child of his own?" Come at it from both "make Obi-Wan happy" and "protect your relationship with Luke" angles.

Vader: I can't have babies anymore due to what you did to me on Mustafar. Obi-Wan: So you're punishing me by forcing me to have them instead? Vader: No! Children are a gift that you have been cruelly denied by the Order that held us in its chains! Obi-Wan: ...oh, right, you're insane. Forgot about that. Somehow.

Big dramatic speech about how the Jedi Order spent so long making them take lives, he’s giving Obi-Wan a chance to create it! To put something good and bright into the world!

Poor Cody is like. "General, I am very fond of you but I'm having a million panic attacks at the same time because of the mind control, and also Vader is under the impression that we're in love and I need to be your stud? I wasn't aware you could have children--" "I can't. Or at least, I couldn't, but Anakin is... creative." "...what."

I don't want to actually objectify Cody in the narrative past the point that Obi-Wan himself is, because nnnnngh racism and clone stuff, so I'm going to say Cody was in love with Obi-Wan, and would have been okay with at least discussing the whole baby schtick if not for the absolutely horrible circumstances.

Like if the war had ended normally, and Obi-Wan had expressed a desire to retire, unlikely as that was, then Cody may have suggested a dinner, and they could have gotten married and then eventually adoption...

(Cody had a lot of fantasies he didn’t let himself think about too hard.)

But no. It's this... weird Vader-inspired bullshit.

I'm just so invested in Vader trying to help but making things legitimately a million times worse.

He wants to help :) Oh god, he wants to help.

Why aren't people more appreciative of how hard I'm helping them? - the Anakin Skywalker story

With less time to stew and also getting handed what he wants, Vader could absolutely flip on a dime the second he saw Luke being protected, and go from “I hate you” to remembering that Obi-Wan said he loved him, and now he must keep Obi-Wan safe out of debt and he just... he’s playing house. 

Vader throws Obi-Wan a baby shower after the pregnancy is confirmed. Bail is invited, because Obi-Wan doesn't have a lot of friends still alive. Vader decides Bail is top of the Obi-Wan’s Friends List.

This is the first time they've seen each other in two years. Obi-Wan is heavily pregnant despite Bail knowing full well he didn't have the plumbing for that before the Empire rose. Cody is there and emotionally exhausted but more lucid than most troopers. Luke is running up to Leia because New Friend!!!

....there may be MORE of the 212th and 501st at the baby shower, with “kill all Jedi” orders revoked, of course. But it will keep the children safe!! And Cody and Obi-Wan can see their surviving friends!!

Cody: I'd be much happier to see my surviving troopers if they didn't all still have chips in their heads. Obi-Wan: I feel much the same. Vader: [404 error]

Bail and his family might be there at blaster point, but aren't you happy to see them, Obi-Wan??

Obi-Wan's endless trauma is honestly somewhat curtailed by the incessant need to facepalm at Vader’s bullshit

Obi-Wan and Cody both outwardly have a very "there are much worse people I could be stuck with in this situation but obviously I wish I'd had a choice, no hard feelings" attitude at each other.

Internally, Cody is suffering because this is NOT how he wanted his crush to be realized, and Obi-Wan is just suffering, period.

Cody: How did he even choose which of us ends up pregnant? Obi-Wan: He thinks I need to be protected, and that he needs to keep me safe. Cody: ...he does realize that you're better at-- Obi-Wan: Cody, he's completely lost it. No! He doesn't realize!

I feel like over the course of the year or two this plot unravels towards Palpatine getting murder-deposed and Anakin getting locked down, part of the driving force to Vader not being Vader anymore is that Luke actually really loves Uncle Obi and always starts fussing and going "Ben's sad" whenever Vader dismisses what Obi-Wan wants in favor of what Vader thinks Obi-Wan wants, and Vader can't deny his child anything.

Luke cries because Palpatine Feels Wrong like, once or twice, and Anakin goes “oh, okay, assassination time.”

[obiwanobi]

Ok but can you imagine a world where RoTS never happened, palps died during the battle of Coruscant, and Anakin left the jedi while in the midst of the war. Skip years later, and the war was ending or something, and padme’s invited back for treaties and such. Bail’s now the chancellor and everything.

With Bail as leader, you know the jedi would definitely have a representative aka Obi Wan. So it’ll be the first time in years they’ve seen in each other in person (anakin cut off contact cuz he was scared obi wan hated him. Obi wan did it cuz he thought he failed anakin and didn’t want to bother him). The years have been kind to Obi Wan, and he even has a new padawan. A smart, snarky, well-behaved human padawan, who looked at Obi Wan like he hung all the moons.

Cue Anakin getting jealous of a 12 year old

I love post-rots AU where Palpatine dies 💁‍♀️

I can see Anakin announcing his decision to leave the Order during a Council meeting after Grievous was killed, thinking that the war is almost over. The room is shocked, Obi-Wan, who has been back on Coruscant for half a minute and was certain that everything would start getting better now is stunned, and when asked what's prompting this Anakin casually says "I love my wife and we're expecting a child, so, you know" and it's a good thing Obi-Wan is already sitting down because, sure, he loves Padmé, no surprise here, but a wife? a CHILD??? DOES YOUR JEDI VOWS MEAN NOTHING TO YOU, YOU IDIOT

It's a bit of a mess after that, everyone is busy dealing with the end of the war, some weird Sith artefacts have been found at the late Chancellor's apartment, Obi-Wan is called to do a lot of clean-up in the Outer Rim, and they don't have time to talk about it. It's mostly a question of timing, really, because Obi-Wan leaves urgently in the night and Padmé is talking about going back to Naboo to give birth close to her family, so... Anakin ends up leaving the Temple for good while Obi-Wan is away.

Master Yoda makes it a small but almost nice event, thanking him for his service in front of the Council, and Anakin is actually quite touched to see all its members rise and bow to him before wishing him the best. Mace even puts a hand on his shoulder and gravely says "if your child is Force-sensitive, please, please don't bring them here, I don't think anyone can handle another Skywalker so soon," and even smiles when Anakin laughs at that.

Obi-Wan's absence doesn't bother them too much; they all expect him and Anakin to keep in touch anyway. Depa even jokes that she can already see Obi-Wan trying to bribe her to take his classes so he can go babysit for a day.

(When Obi-Wan comes back a few weeks later and asks for Anakin, it's Depa who has to tell him that he's already gone.)

(His face tells her that Anakin never talked about babysitting with him.)

Flash forward to a few years later, where Anakin comes to like, a Senate party or an official event as Padmé's husband with their children. He's been careful enough to avoid Obi-Wan all these years because he's certain that Obi-Wan is terribly disappointed in him, and also because he feels almost guilty for never trying to get in touch with him. Padmé has tried to get him to send a comm, really tried, but the only time Anakin accepts to talk about Obi-Wan is when he's telling bedtime stories to Luke and Leia, and that's it.

So it's a bit awkward when Anakin goes to look for his children who have suddenly disappeared in the middle of the reception and find them kneeling in a corner of a corridor, teaching what is clearly a young padawan a complicated hand-clapping game. They must have been here for a while now because the padawan has memorised most of the song, even if Leia keeps correcting her left hand on some of the gestures.

Anakin has to admit that it's a bit cute, that's probably why he asks if he can join too, even laughs and reassures the little Jedi when she looks a bit embarrassed to be caught in such a silly position. Anyone who can hold his children's attention for that long and stay patient with them is a gift from the Force.

He's so engrossed in the game that he's almost surprised when someone clears their throat above him.

He's even more surprised after raising his head up and finding Obi-Wan's face blinking at him.

Anakin can only blink back for a few seconds. He never expected that he would see his master again while sitting on the floor of an empty corridor, clapping hands with Luke and a padawan and singing about three little loth-cats going to the market.

It's a lot to take in, and Obi-Wan is still watching him, and it's his master right here, and he looks so composed and way more relaxed than during the war, and his eyes that he hasn't seen in years are still on Anakin, and oh Force, he really missed seeing this face, and—

"You have a lot of grey hair," Anakin lies, and immediately regrets it.

He can hear the Padawan gasping next to him.

Somehow, Obi-Wan doesn't look impressed.

[hecckyeah]

okay. now that my brain stopped short circuiting for a second, let me address some stuff about the new tbobf episode (which is mostly just me trying to explain it to myself and understand some of the choices that were made because i mean come on, it’s dave filoni and jon favreau we’re talking about. they’re solid.)

first and foremost. I think that “I’m really sad and angry about boba being a side character in his own show, they should have handled this differently,” and “oh my gosh DIN is here and LUKE and AHSOKA and GROGU, I THINK I’M DYING this is AMAZING,” are two sentences that can and should coexist. 

alright. we agree? good. now, some things I’ve been thinking about regarding luke in this episode.

I hated the sequels. if you’ve been following me for any amount of time, you probably know that. I disowned them way back in 2017 when TLJ ruined my life. I’m just about the biggest luke skywalker fan you’ll ever meet, so TLJ feels like a personal betrayal. anyway, so every piece of star wars media I’ve seen since then I’ve taken with more than just a grain of salt. I want to believe things will change but unlike the MCU, I don’t think star wars will branch off into separate realities. there were whispers about that a while ago, but honestly I doubt they’re true. 

all that to say, unfortunately I think they’re slowly, slowly pushing star wars toward that direction. and in doing so, they have to make certain.......choices for certain characters. that means placing doubts in our minds that maybe luke isn’t the perfect peacekeeper we always knew him as.

I HOPE. I hope they prove me wrong. I honest to goodness could not imagine a world where the s*quels are true in every reality.

but. there might be a light at the end of the tunnel, because I don’t think luke’s intentions are wrong at all. and let me explain.

it does seem like luke is the biggest hypocrite ever when he asked grogu to choose between being a jedi and going back to din. but he has a point, and please hear me out on this.

right now, at this stage in grogu’s life, he can’t do both. he’s just a kid, he’s still being shaped and formed into who he’s going to become in however-many-hundred years from now. if he goes off galavanting around with din again, soon he’ll be back to square one. if he spends his life with his dad, until din is old and gone, he won’t be able to go back to luke because luke will probably be gone, too. and by then, who knows if there will be more jedi around able and willing to train grogu as well as luke would have?

grogu is probably one of, if not the most powerful students luke will ever have. he needs to train this kid, set him on a good path before he can be manipulated or changed by other people who want to hurt him or use him for his powers. luke knows all too well what it’s like to be manipulated or wanted for your power. 

when luke placed those two objects in front of grogu, he knew the kid understood the implications of both. he can read his thoughts, remember? 

grogu knows his little heart has to be fully focused on his training in order to succeed. loving people is good, we know that and luke knows that. but there is some truth to the whole letting go of attachment thing. didn’t din do that when he let grogu go? didn’t anakin do that when he yeeted old palps down to his death, knowing it would kill him but finally deciding to be unselfish and let go of a life with luke? even kanan jarrus and ezra bridger both did that, showing immense self sacrifice for the greater good.

now it’s grogu’s turn. if he grabs that armor and says see ya later, he’s being selfish. he misses his dad, and that’s okay. but there’s a greater purpose here, and I think that’s what people don’t realize. the jedi obviously took it to the extreme, but the essence of it is true. 

when luke leaves dagobah during empire strikes back, that might seem like a valiant and wholehearted fuck you to the jedi and their attachment rule, but did no one see where that left him?? he ended up literally almost dead, hanging off a piece of metal under a floating city, with one less hand and a murderbot for a dad. oh, and he got his best friend imprisoned and also left for dead. if leia hadn’t been right there, luke would have died that day.

that was luke learning the meaning behind don’t get attached the hard way. 

attachment doesn’t mean not loving people. love is what brought anakin back from the dark side. but in order to do that, luke had to leave his friends on endor and see the bigger picture. when the emporer is taunting him, saying that his friends will die, he’s obviously distressed. but he’s able to refocus and trust that his mission, his purpose, lies with his father. that’s called letting go of attachment and not letting it blind you.

grogu has to learn the same lesson, but this time he has luke there to guide him.