#naruto post ending

[equill]

Another Otsutsuki?!

we’re messing up the timeline for this one. (I lost this crack idea but then it came back… the abyss stare back and I jumped in.)

anyways, now some kids meeting the new kid

Panel 1: There’s something wrong here.

Comic 1: Attention.

they’re both in the same boat

Comic 2: Day Off (with confusion.)

he just a little insecure,, (kakashi still told him to get it together)

back to the future now

Comic 3: What. (huh?)

Panel 2: very tiny.

[nyaaamato]

AKATSUKI ASSEMBLE! late day 1 pic for @obito-week 🎉

[moongothic]

Madoka is the promise you won't turn from a child, full of hopes and dreams and the wish to save the world, into a bitter adult who just wants to hurt others and ruin people's lives

Madoka promised to be there for you to remind you of the person you wanted to be and to stop you from becoming what you sought to destroy

Madoka made that promise and became the very embodiment of it

[joy-girl]

Naruto 402

[itischeese]

your honor, they're just my little guys.

shitty sketches of the comic this was supposed to be part of under the cut

[lostinthesasuke]

am I in heaven?

[mdr-reikas]

Listen, I really love characters like Obito and Madara as they are, but can we please talk about how Kishimoto has been consistently incapable of writing a character that doesn't like the leaf village without instantly making them irredeemable or wrong in some way, shape or form?

It feels like Kishimoto is trying to make Konoha seem like the good guys, by making everyone who criticizes konoha an absolute nut case. This doesn't only apply to Obito and Madara, this also applies to characters like Pain and Sasuke. It's not like any of these character's criticisms of Konoha are invalid; it's more that people don't look at that stuff when it's followed by a myriad of war crimes, and I will not pretend like this wasn't intentional on Kishimoto's part.

(by the way, I think the reason why Kishimoto tries to defend konoha and the shinobi system so much towards the end of shippuden, is because Kishimoto set himself up for failure by writing a heroic protagonist that wants to become the leader of a village that is revealed to be more and more corrupt as the series goes on, but doesn't want to betray the original story line of naruto wanting to become the hokage and soforth starts backtracking to make naruto wanting to become hokage justifiable again) this is a story for a another post))

[tavina-writes]

I'm not exactly sure how I want to phrase this yet, but I think a lot of the utterly weird takes I see sometimes float by me on our cursed blue hellsite (esp when it comes to mdzscql fandom) is coming from a refusal to meet the genre where it's at.

Like, why are we trying to interrogate classism in MDZS society, MDZS is a romance, the societal worldbuilding is just enough to support some general big ideas and the provide context for the romance. We can't get ANY kind of read on general classim/sexism/anything else from. this source material. if you think you can get granular when your sample size of characters from various social and gender strata are so small and we don't know how the vast majority of people in here live you are making stuff up.

Like, meet the story where it's at: it's a romance novel.

[purple-ravaged]

here is an incomplete wip!! i’ve been teasing this kakashi pmv for ages and never actually uploaded anything… here’s anything

[thinkingfandoms]

Why are masked characters so hot?

only it becomes more and more weird

[hellcifrogs]

NaruFox AU How they decided who should (not) be the new Hokage... Jiraiya was kicked out of the meeting room right after.

Prev / Next

[sasukeless]

cons? pros? of having an insane overprotective boyfriend: he might turn into a wild mythical nine tails demon at times for you

[comikadraws]

Sasuke and the Final Battle

Alright! So personally, I dislike the conclusion that Sasuke's character got in canon. Here's why!

I am putting in pluses between panels to ensure nobody thinks those panels belong together.

The premise of the battle is as follows: Sasuke, motivated by the loss of his family, comes up with a plan to rectify the injustice he experienced which involves killing Naruto - not just because it promises him the power he seeks but also because he wants to cut that bond. It's a direct parallel to the first VotE fight.

Now, I still think Sasuke deserved better and I am very sorry to all Sasuke fans, but we need to get this one out of the way first.

While Sasuke's plans in the first VotE fight made a lot of sense, here, in the second fight, they are downright insane. He essentially plans to take over the world, become a dictator, and maintain his rule in neverending loneliness by becoming immortal. It doesn't need a genius to see that this should probably be considered tyrannical and self-destructive. And yes, he absolutely needed someone to knock some sense into him. But please keep in mind that the degree of Sasuke's insanity is a deliberate choice of the writer. A plot device for picking sides.

And it also makes a lot of sense for Konoha to be wary of him. Outside of this fight, he switched sides like five times. That's not something that would make you look particularly trustworthy or reliable.

It makes sense for Sasuke to feel guilty for his actions. He tried to kill his friends and comrades on multiple occasions. That's not something anybody would feel proud of.

But now, here are the issues I have with this battle and its conclusion:

Sasuke's core motivation is being glossed over

There's a huge bias going on in favor of Konoha and Naruto

Sasuke's sudden change of heart is abrupt and inconsistent with his character

The conclusion of Sasuke's character only exists in theory

Core Motivation

Sasuke's core motivation is the injustice experienced by the victims of the Uchiha massacre. His pain, loneliness, or even his wish for change are merely symptomatic, yet they are the only motivations ever acknowledged throughout the battle - even by Sasuke himself.

Problem is, Naruto needs to physically and ideologically defeat Sasuke - preferably without looking like the bad guy for shutting down a victim's cry for change and justice. But that only works by erasing and not ever talking about the corruption of the system. As a consequence of removing Sasuke's motivation and justification, he ends up looking insane to the reader.

But defeating Sasuke and reducing his motivation to insanity like that, not acknowledging and condemning the injustice that motivates him, can only come at the cost of his depth, authenticity, and readability as a character.

The Konoha Bias

This also makes Kishimoto seem incredibly biased when it comes to Konoha. The crimes the village has committed, be it genocide, slavery, or child abuse, usually merely fulfill the purpose of "sad backstories" rather than being given the time and dignity to be properly identified, criticized, and rectified in the story. Injustice is allowed to be a character motivation or a flavor in the story, but it is not allowed to be a theme. That is no different here. Sasuke's traumas (though not their origin) are used to inform his actions but not shown as the result of the depravity of the system.

Aside from this linking back to Sasuke's character being deprived of his ideological value in the story (due to being a victim of the system and demanding change), this lack of attention and awareness toward the injustice reads like propaganda from an irl perspective. These are some of the most contemptworthy acts in existence we are talking about. And yet Konoha gets away unscathed.

Meanwhile, Sasuke, who is seemingly the only person demanding change, is intentionally characterized as "crazy", inevitably invalidating him and his desire for change. It basically reads as "yes, this system is rotten but everybody wanting to change it is evil". Change becomes evil by association. It's disheartening, demoralizing, and disappointing.

The Change of Heart

Now let's take a look at how his character actually progresses during this battle.

Sasuke wants to change the world even if that means killing Naruto or being lonely

Sasuke re-evaluates his relationship with Naruto

Sasuke realizes he no longer wants to kill Naruto or be lonely even if that means the world never changes

Now. Rethinking his self-destructive approach is, without question, a positive change. But that is not the problem here.

The problem is that this change in his character occurs rather unprompted. Sasuke, the entirety of the story, has ignored his own suffering in favor of justice. He has ignored every single character crying over him or telling him that they don't want him to ruin or endanger himself. But then Naruto basically says "it hurts to watch you suffer" and Sasuke suddenly rethinks his entire ideology. Naruto is basically only treating one of Sasuke's symptoms but not their origin.

This is unrealistic for his character and hurts his coherence (as well a invalidating him). It is a forced plot convenience to avoid any sort of compromise between Naruto and Sasuke. Both because Naruto has to come out on top due to genre conventions and also because Konoha cannot be questioned.

Missing Conclusion

Furthermore, this results in Sasuke's arc never coming to an actual "conclusion". As a victim, he should have been given justice. As someone who was supposedly suffering under his loneliness, he should have been given companionship. As a villain, somebody should have pointed out his hypocrisy and the wrongs he has committed.

None of that happened. Sasuke is not given justice and is even incarcerated in the most undignified and dehumanizing fashion possible in the anime. Afterward, he takes off alone. So in the end, even the "power of friendship" resolution that Kishimoto attempted to write only occurred on a surface level and failed in its execution. Sasuke is not changed because he realizes he is a hypocrite and doing more harm than good but because of a plot convenience. Sasuke internalized none of what he supposedly learned and practically had no conclusion whatsoever. He is still suffering. Nothing has changed.

The Point

And at this point, I'm just wondering "what was the point?". Clearly, the point of Sasuke's character wasn't to explore the darkness of the shinobi system. And it wasn't to seek justice for the horrors it has committed. It also wasn't about helping Sasuke heal from any of the hardships he's endured.

The point was, unfortunately, to be Naruto's trophy. Naruto is the main character, therefore he must remain ideologically unchallenged and perfect, he must have the strongest jutsu arsenal and he must have the most unwavering determination. Even if that means bending the other characters to the plot's needs. Sasuke is, thanks to genre conventions, not allowed to be right and Naruto cannot be wrong. A compromise or any justice at all become impossible.

[r0semultiverse]

Kawaki Homophobia Moments

[kaleidoscopic-quiddity]

that being said, my actual biggest issue w/ the bnha ending is Deku being a quirkless hero with an armoured All Might-esque supersuit.

now heres the thing, I don't hate Deku ending the story as quirkless. I, like loads of other people, assumed from fairly early on assumed that bnha would end either with Deku going back to being quirkless or, if not that, back to not having any of the OFA vestiges' quirks and just having that 'base' OFA super strength/speed, with which he could still continue being a pro hero

the thing is, I had always assumed that if bnha did go down the 'Deku loses OFA entirely and goes back to being quirkless' route then as a result of that, the whole 'this is the story of how I became the greatest hero' thing from the beginning of the story would take on a new light. the reveal would be that we, the audience, already saw Deku become the greatest hero over the course of the 2 wars and defeating AFO/Shigaraki, and/or that he would become the 'greatest hero' but not the kind hero that the audience assumed, instead working as a quirkless teacher/villain outreach worker/quirk analyist/hero assiant/etc.

and that would be pretty poignant endind would it not? a re-emphasising of this idea that its not just the pros who are heroes, but that everybody in society who 'reaches out' and works to make the world a better place is a hero too, regardless of how 'strong' they may or may not be, that it was never truly about having a powerful quirk and being a pro superhero, but by stopping those who want to do harm, and saving people, that's what truly made Deku the greatest hero

and like bnha's finale did kinda do that a bit with Deku being a heroics teacher at UA for eight years but then it, in my opinion, ruined that by having Deku become a quirkless-with-a-supersuit pro hero.

the thing is, if Deku couldve been a quirkless pro hero this whole time, then there was no reason for All Might to even give him OFA, and for the story as a whole, to happen. and I'm sure some people will counter that point by saying like 'oh but the suit cost LOADS of money' or 'but they were only able to make the suit after analysing the data from All Might's fight with AFO', but to me that just further proves why Deku getting a supersuit so he can be a quirkless pro hero is dumb.

All Might is the no.1 hero in Japan and is globally renowned, if he wanted to secure the funding to make Deku some kind of supersuit he couldve done that right when he met Deku as a quirkless middle schooler, but he didn't. in fact, when explicitly asked by Deku if he could become a hero, even without a quirk, All Might told him that being a quirkless pro hero was impossible. he didn't say that to be cruel or because he's fantasy-ableist or whatever, he said that because he genuinely believed it to be the truth, and he was right.

the fact that support items are not replacements for quirks and actual hero-ing skill/talent is established fairly early on. All Might mentions, some time around the sports festival if I remember correctly, that he's seen heroes who are overly reliant on their support items become useless/a liability once those items break. its a nice and tidy in-universe justification for why every hero isnt walking around with robot armour and ray guns and what have you. and okay, sure, bnha's finale is set eight years in the future, it could be reasonable to assume that in that time, plus with all the funding provided by class 1-a and All Might, that the support industry has really developed and Deku's supersuit is some absolute top of the line technology.

even then, there's still a glaring issue. we saw the exact scenario All Might described play out, WITH All Might. his supersuit was technological marvel, it let him get some genuine damage in on the most powerful villain ever, but ultimately it broke, and without it All Might was unable to fight, and became a liability that had to be rescued. and I'm not saying that to trash on All Might or anything, that is literally just how that quirkless-hero-with-a-supersuit scenario worked out for him.

and okay, sure, you could argue that Deku's supersuit, developed in the eight years since the war, using the data from that fight, and likely with even more money put into it, is a lot better than All Might's supersuit was, and also that it took AFO to wreck All Might's supersuit and its unlikely that there'll ever be a villain that powerful ever again so Deku doesn't have to worry about his own suit in the same way. and sure, you could even argue that non-quirkless pro heroes still have times when they're unable to use their quirks for one reason or another, and just have to rely on their own strength/skills/etc the same way Deku would if his supersuit broke or malfunctioned

but even with all that, my problem is is that it was established, multiple times, why it wasnt a viable option for Deku to just be a quirkless pro hero who used support items, and if the narrative wants to roll that back and go, no, wait, it is actually a totally viable option, then it just begs the question of why don't all pro heroes have supersuits, why is Deku the first quirkless person to become a pro hero in this way, and why, if this was an option, did the story even have to bother with Deku inhereting OFA and learning to make it his own power?

i get what they're going for here, having Deku be a quirkless pro hero with a supersuit is trying to play into the whole 'it was never the power, but rather who midoriya izuku is as a person, that makes him a great hero' but if you ask me its just such a cheap and deus ex machina-y way of doing it???

i genuinely think Deku either being quirkless and instead working in some other way that helps people and/or helps pro heroes help people OR keeping OFA (minus the vestiges' quirks) and going on to a pro hero, and in either scenario, having a moment with All Might and/or Bakugou where they emphasise to him that he is, and always was, a hero, regardless of a quirk, would just be infinitely more narratively coherent and satisfying

the bnha ending isnt terrible, and im certainly not saying people can't like it or trying to drag them if they do, but i am say that me, personally, i dont like it all that much, AND i think its bad writing

[evilkitten3]

Mutual, I'm lowkey obsessing over your tags about akatsuki Tsunade, can you elaborate more the basic timeline? Like how this would affect Tsunade's arc in classic and such

tbh i hadn't really thought about it lol

but.... let's say it happens during the search for tsunade arc? orochimaru and jiraiya are both gunning to get her on their side but you know what? the shark man said please. get your shit shizune we're going with these guys if you poison the little red-eyed shit on the way no judgement (kisame: maybe don't though?)

jiraiya is pissed, orochimaru is torn between being amused bc wow and being in agonizing pain bc his arms still don't work, naruto keeps trying to get her to come heal lee (and now sasuke) but she's having none of it so she just throws a file of miscellaneous notes at his head and tells him "find someone with good chakra control and pray" (sakura: omg i have good chakra control!!!!)

weirdly the member of team seven affected most by this is sasuke bc sakura has absolutely no fucking clue what she's doing at first and it takes her like an extra month to wake him up, so he needs to get back on his feet before he can decide if he wants to run off to orochimaru or not. lee is.... kinda sol, frankly. sakura works really really hard to help him out, and she's eventually able to get him to a place where he can do a few things, but by the time she's good enough to really be able to help him it's way too late. fortunately he's adapted somewhat, and being lee he's surpassed what anyone thought he'd be able to, but he's never going to be what he could've been. gaara feels terrible about this ofc but lee isn't the sort to really hold a grudge, even if pretty much everyone agrees he'd be perfectly justified in doing so. gai never forgives tsunade, though, not really.

concerning tsunade's role in the akatsuki.... the thing is, it's her own grandparents who started the whole jinchuuriki mess. and she's seen with her own two eyes what konoha did to places like amegakure; she was part of it. she doesn't like that the jinchuuriki die post extraction, so she starts looking into how to make that not happen, but if she does succeed, it isn't until after the gaara debacle, so chiyo still dies. her biggest motivation here is naruto - she doesn't agree with him, but he reminds her of nawaki, so she really doesn't want him to die if at all avoidable. she doesn't get too involved in the actual jinchuuriki capturing process tho; she's more useful patching people up after.

having said that, she doesn't fully agree with pain and konan's plan, she just can't really think of anything better. tobi tells sasuke about itachi while tsunade is patching him up, and since it's her family that led to this, she's pretty on-board with the whole "fuck this stupid baka village" thing (ofc she's been heading down that path since joining the akatsuki, so this isn't like canon!tsunade suddenly making this call; there's a couple years of character development first), so.... she's effectively on team sasuke at this point, and once he splits from the akatsuki she does as well.

iirc, post danzou, sasuke spent about eight and a half volumes just kinda adjusting mostly offscreen to his recent ert (eyeball replacement therapy), before skewering og white zetsu and fucking off to go accidentally reunite with zombitachi, but aside from decking itachi through a few trees on sight, idk how much about all that would change. immediately after, when sasuke brings back orochimaru, they have an awkward reunion, followed by yet another awkward reunion when orochimaru brings back the four dead hokage. she's both very happy to see her granddad again, but it's hard for her to tell him (and hiruzen, for that matter) that she deserted the village completely, even if she doesn't regret her decision.

now you may be wondering: weren't shizune and tonton also around? yes! but when sasuke went after danzou, they stayed behind, leading to shizune finding and managing to save konan after tobito killed her. there's a potential romance subplot there as well but i accidentally ruined it for myself by saying aloud "two girls one pig" and then regretting my whole life.

the other survival is jiraiya; he becomes hokage instead since it's either one of the sannin or one of the elders, and as much as he doesn't want the job, he really doesn't want them to have it. this in part means he can't go spying in ame himself, although he very nearly does after orochimaru's death gets reported, but instead he sends someone else. that person dies, but manages to get the information back to him (it has to be someone important to naruto, and it can't be kakashi, so maybe iruka? but idk how he'd be in espionage. maybe one of naruto's classmates did spy training offscreen? it's entirely possible with jiraiya as hokage instead of tsunade but idk). since jiraiya isn't a healer, he'd either need to be injured badly enough for danzou to be able to step in without him being able to object, or sasuke would just need to have his fight with danzou somewhere else (so the raikage's arm might survive also).

the final thing is that, unlike in canon, this version of tsunade never got naruto therapy'd, so while she does eventually get over the hemophilia somehow (maybe just existing in the relative vicinity of hidan did the trick), she never really dealt with the grief that caused her to leave konoha in the first place, so that's still very much there. however, i think maybe this could work to the story's advantage - instead of just naruto vs sasuke, it could be naruto and sakura vs sasuke and tsunade. tho in this instance sasuke really isn't alone, and isn't really trying to be by that point. it's more a battle of "do we try to fix the system from within, or do we really need to start from scratch for things to improve in any meaningful way", but ultimately the winner is the realization that four people from konoha not only shouldn't but honestly can't be the only ones making this call. if the world is going to move forward, it can't be dragged by a single person, or even two people. it's gotta be a group effort. idk if the story should go into the details of what they decide on, bc i'm definitely not politically savvy enough for something like that, or just have an open ending leaving whatever happens next up to interpretation.

(sorry this took so long lol i kept having to do things XD)