#more of Dukes connections being We Are Robin

[starlooove]

Duke not trusting cops and him making his debut in a movement of people who were making their own changes bc of the inaction/compliance of the police are two concepts that aren’t connected enough for me.

[raynetheinsane]

Tim was Dukes Robin.

Sure Jason would have been Robin when he was a little kid, but if we do our math Duke is about 2 years younger than Tim, placing him at about 11 when Tim became Robin meaning that Duke would have been 9 when Jason died.

At age 9, Duke, being a fully normal civilian for the most part, would never have fully connected with Jason’s Robin, he would have connected with the idea of Robin, but not any specific person behind the mask.

Then comes Robin 3. He’s different, at least thats what everyone is saying. But Duke doesn’t care. There was a new Robin, one who was smart and used his head to fight people *just like Duke*.

A lot of things change in Dukes life but Robin was constant.

He was crushed when a new Robin took over, but he adjusted. (He was a little ashamed to admit he was happy when his Robin came back)

Then Batman “died” and Robin disappeared and Duke lead We Are Robin and then he became signal blah blah blah.

After he joins the batfam, he is more than a little shocked to find out that his Robin is such a wet cat of a man (/aff) and so whenever people ask him who his favorite Robin was, he always says We Are Robin.

The rest of the bats never find out and Duke never tells Tim.

[gothamite-rambler]

Duke knows that he knows

Duke Thomas and Tim Drake headed down the road in Duke's car as under the guise they were getting lunch together.

Duke: Tim, confession, I wasn't inviting you out of the house just for lunch.

Tim: We haven't gotten any food yet, so I figured. What do you need to tell me?

Duke: I won't be mad, you're my brother Tim, but when are you going to tell the fam that Bernard knows you're Robin?

Tim's eyes widened in shock, he averted eye contact with Duke. There's no way he knew, this had to be a guess to mess with him.

Tim (stammering): Th- That is a preposterous allegation! Bernard is- is in the dark about me being Robin.

Duke: Boy I am not dumb. You've had him pop up unexpectedly when we were on missions and you two were making those same 'do me' eyes when you're in your suit. Don't act like I don't notice. The others haven't, but I have. What do you have to say for yourself?

Tim (lying): He's a fan of Red Robin.

Duke: Tim, I saw you guys kissing goodbye after he happened to show up and help us take down that crook with the flamethrower. I like Bernie too so if either of you are worried I'll run and tell Batman, I won't you. You can trust me dude.

Tim groaned then bonked his head on the dashboard of Duke's car.

Duke: I'm not mad or anything. The secret is in my vault, but damn man you seriously told him?

Tim: He found me out.

Duke paused the music playing on the radio and took a breath.

Duke (loud): He what?

Tim: He said he figured it out years ago and was waiting for me to tell him. Then one night I went through my window assuming he left for the night. There he was and-

Tim groaned covering his eyes.

Tim: He was so cute with all the evidence he had, then he kissed me and I felt the piercing on his tongue-

Duke: Say no more, he got you with a truth kiss. Hm... ah well, I promised I won't tell the others and I'm sticking to that, but you understand you're going to have to tell them eventually.

Tim: Dick already connected the dots.

Duke (chuckled): And much like I imagine with him, I'm not letting you live that down.

Tim: Yep... I wasn't even mad when he told me he knew. I just felt relieved after he talked to me the next morning. I never thought he'd love me that much... and I should not have gotten that tattoo on such an obvious spot.

Duke nodded, starting the music back up.

Duke: You should tighten the sleeves on your suit, that way it will cover the tattoo better. That's for later, I can see you're embarrassed, to make you feel better want to get pizza? My treat.

Tim: Greasy food is what I need after that.

Duke (smiling): That's what brothers are for. And I'm happy you found someone who can keep your secret and love you like that.

Tim smiled.

Tim: Thanks.

[rosemarydisaster]

This post inspired me to think about secret identity logistics and I think Cass being so cavalier with her secret identity would actually help. Like, it makes the rest of the family's secret identities better because Cassandra Cain is obviously Blackbat/Batgirl. By contrast they would look even more civilian and if someone is not going to realize their kid is a vigilante is Brucie Wayne.

"But wouldn't they connect the dots to the rest of the family?" Listen, If those were bats they'd simply get out of the kidnappings and hostage situations they get themselves into like Cassandra. The fact that they always need to be saved proves they're, indeed, civilians.

Also, I doubt the math would math unless you knew very specific internal things to connect each vigilante to their civilian identity. Brucie is, for starters, as civilian as can get and thanks to the Mandela effect everyone is convinced that he was caught on camera making out with Batman anyways. So that's a non-starter.

Dick Grayson is trying to be a regular person, so the public would know he exists and comes back to important things but he's mostly out of the public eye. Plus, he's a police officer, why would anyone assume he's in kahoots with his little sister that was adopted after he'd already left Gotham?? And when he came back to Gotham for a while to take care of things for his father, is not like there was a new vigilante. It was still batman and Robin (the Robin was new, but Dick Grayson is an adult so, not likely).

Then we get to the big one: Jason is legally dead. You can't assign him any vigilante because he's mmm super dead. I'm sure there's a true crime podcaster trying to argue that he was the second robin and died doing robin shit, that's why Batman and Bruce broke up. But even if it's compelling, it's also considered in really bad taste. Also, can't be tied to Cassandra because she arrived after his death.

Tim gets a similar reaction to Brucie in the sense that there's no way he is a vigilante. He's the immunocompromised Twink from Forbes "30 under 30". He's literally physically incapable of being a super hero due to both a lack of Muscles and a lack of time. That boy has to run an entire massive money making machine and, for all gothamites know, he may very well be asthmatic as well. Plus, he gets kidnapped like crazy. If he was a hero he would at least now how to avoid being put in those situations. They suspect he's covering for Cass though, since he's smart enough to realize his sister is freaking Batgirl.

This means that even if Cass is Batgirl they can't really trace Batman, Nightwing, Red Robin or Red hood back to the family (not to speak of Batwoman, Catwoman, Huntress, Batgirl a 1 and 2, Oracle or spoiler). So at this point why would you even try to connect the others? Clearly Cass is the exception, not the rule.

Like, sure, Duke did survive the Riddler ruling Gotham and if you put some effort, it wouldn't be impossible to tie him to the We Are Robin movement. But also ...is it because he's black? Is it because he's the only black person from Gotham you know of?? His sister is a vigilante, and he is black, so he must be the black vigilante of course (He would be the one making this comments in social media through his sock puppet accounts and the True Crime/conspiracy communities would be too scared to touch that one with a ten foot pole)

Damian is another one where I think Bruce would do what he can to protect him from the press (partially for his own good and partially because he's the opposite of media trained). Most of the info the tabloids would get is from people tangentially related to him. Like, sure, he does look a bit like the new robin, and his sister is Batgirl. But, unless you're one of the people claiming he's the lovechild of Bruce Wayne and Batman (test tube baby??? Batman trans???) it wouldn't make a lot of sense now, would it?

Like Cass is so fucking weird compared to the rest of her family's civilian identities it makes them look rock solid by comparison.

[jellllllo-bowl]

return to my roots (batfam x dcmk)

I want to express my gratitude to anyone who has interacted with my batfam x dcmk posts and may we have more contents of them ✨

yapping below

thinking about whether this should happen in the same universe, or would it be funnier if some of the bats were dunked into dcmk world due to idk the speed force

if it's the former then i want to lean into "batman is an urban legend" outside of gotham, and yeah, night baron x batman is a decently-sized ship in dcmk japan. the BO doesn't want anything to do with gotham.

if it's the latter then maybe only bruce tim and damian are affected because the others are in the same age range as 1/ victims; 2/ BO members; and i don't know yet how to factor them into dcmk. maybe duke and the girls can stay in magic kaito verse. they would have a lot of fun traveling around the world meeting borderline-meta magicians.

bruce tim and damian would still go out at night. somehow the cave connects a random cave in rural okuho to their original verse due to both of them being fictional places (im spewing bullshit)

increasingly intricate crimes keep happening despite their interventions (they manage to lower the mortality rate tho)

how fast can they crack the BO case and likewise, how fast can they figure out the others' identities? i think it depends on how long they can stay out of each other's way (not so long)

conan would make a horrifying robin. IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE *kicking a ball into your face with the force of a truck*

before figuring out his identity im sure there's a developing theory that he's related to the local equivalent of bruce wayne. strong sense of justice and ...kinda blue eyes? and a multitude of weird gadgets and oh, his documents are forged, his parents don't exist??? very suspicious. too bad he actually has healthy and loving parents.

[casscainmainly]

Have you read the recent chapter of boy wonder? I feel like it ties nicely with what you were talking about recently like robin, the mantles relationship with poc and batman

Adding your second ask here: "And also robin as being able to be a symbol for the collective and community. Sorry for being so scatter brained I sent the other ask without completing my thoughts😭 I was really interested in how you'll react to the recent chapter and hearing your thoughts on it. I'm not really good at analysis but reading yours are always fun"

I'm really happy you sent this ask because I've been meaning to read The Boy Wonder for ages and I never got around to it, so this was the push I needed!

You're spot on that so much of issue #5 connects to what I was discussing in my Duke Thomas and the Robin Mantle post. In fact, Damian giving the R symbol to the would-be robber directly parallels Duke giving the symbol to Daryl:

The Boy Wonder #5 / Batman (2011) #45

In both, they view Robin as a connection to their families and to the wider Gotham community, as the grounds for both individual and societal change. And honestly this makes sense, given that Damian is the predecessor, both chronologically and spiritually, to Duke's Robin.

Damian as a character of color is fraught with difficulty. The set-up of his story invites a dichotomy between the evil, Asian, brown-skinned Talia and Ra's, and the kind and caring White Wayne family. Morrison's demonisation of Talia is symptomatic of this issue. This is something The Boy Wonder mentions, too; Ra's is aggrieved not only at Damian betraying him, but at Damian siding with a rich White man, the opposite of every ideal he was raised with.

But in The Boy Wonder and in canon, the dichotomy is not so simple. Boy Wonder has Damian acknowledge both his 'demon' and Bat sides, with the social movement aspect coming from his mother, not from Bruce. It's also important to anti-racist readings of his character, as well as a general understanding of Damian, that he did not need to learn compassion. He already had it - one of his earliest moments in Morrison's run is feeling devastated at failing to save Sasha. People saying Dick taught Damian to feel things are missing the point: Damian already felt things, and what he learned from Dick was how to process and use those feelings.

(It's also important that Damian's first Batman was Dick, the first Robin, and retroactively the first Robin of Colour.)

Damian as a character moves from the restricting, White-centric legacy of the Batman into the freeing, colourful legacy of Robin. Another parallel to Duke and We Are Robin:

The Boy Wonder #5 / We Are Robin #1

Robin has always stood for youth, but this notion of the future starts with Damian (as Bruce's heir) and flourishes in Duke (as one of Gotham's many heirs). They are the future, which means the future is a place of colour.

One thing I liked more in Boy Wonder than We Are Robin is that Damian starts the movement, whereas WAR has... Alfred (this is a bad move for many reasons but this post is too long already). Damian credits the core moral principle - wanting to change the world in a communal way - to Ra's and Talia, which shows that Damian's morals do not come from the Batfam. Once again, the Robin mantle is not only a connection to the Bat, but a connection to the wearer's original/other family, as it was for Dick and Duke.

In all three cases, the other family is a family of colour. This is why I think Dick works better when his Romani heritage is acknowledged; the Dick-Damian-Duke lineage is a nuanced exploration of the ways kids of Colour navigate the White world, in which Robin functions as a celebration of difference and a rebellion against assimilation. It's a progressive journey: Dick is White-passing and has mostly lost touch with his roots, Damian (ideally, when Talia is written right) equally loves both sides of his family, and Duke is unapologetically, unequivocally Black.

Which is why, though I enjoyed Boy Wonder overall, I'm extremely puzzled why Duke wasn't in it. Like, Damian just started We Are Robin!!! Why would you do WAR and not include WAR characters? Merle could've easily been Duke, and the comic would've been richer for it. (Also why is Babs here?? She says like two lines and is not part of the Robin legacy. Steph being Batgirl or Robin would've made more sense).

I can kind of understand Duke's omission (though this comic pulls so much from We Are Robin it feels like it owes Duke a cameo), but Dick's role was strangely small. It seems like Damian didn't start as Dick's Robin here, but that point is so essential to his character that once again I'm puzzled. There is so much more to be done with Dick, especially with the last issue being a meditation on the Robin legacy.

But it was still a fun read, and Damian is so adorable throughout I can't be mad at it. I hope this post makes up for how long it took me to get to this ask!!

[onepieceoftheoceanblues]

Batfam X One Piece Crossover AU

Someone mentioned this sort of au and I went Insane a bit ^-^' hope you guys enjoy!

Okay so a Batfam in the One Piece world au and how I think it would work/go;

I imagine the Batfam were whammied into an entirely new dimension while on patrol so we have the full costumed roster (but not the full extended clan cuz that's so many people lol) so we have Bruce/Batman, Dick/Nightwing, Jason/Red Hood, Tim/Red Robbin, Damian/Robin, Cass/Black Bat, Stephanie/Batgirl (you can pry Steph still being batgirl out of my cold dead hands), and Duke/Signal.

The First thing they do is figure out where they are, an island in something called the ___ blue (idk which they should be in lol, but it's best if they start in a blue I think), and are very obviously not in their world. (I'm gonna say for the sake of Plot either One Piece doesn't exist in their world or none of them have watched/read it because that would be too easy lol)

Ofc the second thing they do is try to find a way home and gather info but uh, they quickly realize this world doesn't have the best tech around to build something to take them home, and places/people they can get to would be either hard to find or in a place that's very dangerous to get to (Vegapunk is their best bet but... not really an option for right away due to mentioned reasons).

They think of asking this "World Government" for help for all of two seconds, before finding out how fucking awful and corrupt the whole system this world has and nixes that idea right in the bud. They're Vigilantes for a reason, after all, and know corruption in governments very well. So honestly, their best bet is either trying to go along and find someone that can help and materials, or waiting for their people from their world to come and get them.

(SO much more under cut im sorry Brain went Brrr)

Tbh it must be so wild to be in this world too tho, for some many reasons. It's close enough, but then you factor in all the different races and species, and how the world is set up. Add the fact most of it not as advanced as their world, except in some places which it is? And how half their technology runs on... snails?????? What a baffling world. Also, people can have powers and are gained from something called Devil Fruits which give you powers in exchange that the sea can and will kill you, except for some races have natural powers due to their biology.

They decide pretty quickly in world of water to not eat the Devil Fruits. Also keep an eye on Duke because his powers, while not too flashy, arnt a devil fruit, and they have no way to explain how he has them, and how he can manipulate both light and shadows.

Its probs also so jarring because like, in their world, they are used to being the peak of what humans can do. They keep up with metas and aliens and are cosidered among the best of the best for a reason, and while they often have to compensate with gear and tech, at the end of the day they can only go so far as humans.

However, it's different in this world. Clearly even though there are humans, their biological standards are different then their Earth, and even just humans without powers can go far beyond their own norm if they train and work hard enough for it.

The Batfam could easily handle the Blue's pirates and marines, and probs all cannon fodder marines, and while I think they could deal with a good chunk if not most people in Paradise baring the strongest in the first half of the grand line, there's no way they could deal with the New World even with their best gear and in peak condition for them. Which sucks because their best bets are likely in that Sea.

Idk where I'd see them, my heart wants them to be pirates of their own little run pirate crew, but I could easily see them being picked up by a canon crew or turning Revolutionaries in exchange for getting help find a way home, or pirates with connections to Revs. The only thing I can't see is them as Marines, as stated a few paragraphs above, lol, but also I figure they run into the law and go fuck you guys and what you stand for and end up with bounties so they are wanted anyways. But either way they are gonna be progressing and trying to find a way home while getting stronger.

I imagine Haki is the first thing they really try to get down after leanring about it. Idk how they managed to find out about it either in the blues or so early in the grand line, but they are expert information gatherers so they do and immediately try to learn it (either tracking someone down who knows it or how to unlock it, or finding adequate documentation in how to do it) and get to work. It's their best chances in getting a leg up in this world.

And they do unlock it! They're pretty much all geniuses, and they already have experience learning weird skills and manipulating their mental will (they can block out telepaths and have strong willpower in general against mind control canonically), so learning to manifest it into Observation and Armament Haki is less about how hard it is and more just if they can (After all they aren't from this world) and how to apply it. Thankfully, it seems they can.

Duke's Observation makes his future vision so much more powerful, so much he actually has adverse effects to it at first before he gets used to it. Observation is great, just helps what they already natrually know but Armament is very much beloved, instant armor that helps you hit harder even against normal people, let alone devil fruit users!! They are big fans.

Conquerors Haki off the table rn because A.) they don't know if they have it and B.) Who or whatever they learned Haki from didn't explain it or have it to explain so that's put to the side for now, but I'm unsure who, if any of them, have it. Maybe Bruce and Jason, and maybe Damian? I feel?? I could also see Dick unlocking his use of it in a fit of protective rage? Im largely Unsure.

I also think it would be neat if the longer they are here, their bodies adapt to this world more and more until they start being able to past their peak of what they could do before and just... keep going. It varies from each batfam member how they feel on their biology changing over time, but they can't do more than just accept it. At least it will help them survive.

Also, they have to adapt in more ways than one. They arrive and their best gear, fully stocked and mostly undamaged, but the longer they are here the more they run out of supplies and things wear down so they have to figure out how to get/make more or alternate for something better. Batarangs thankfully, while having to be made of a different material, can be made from any island with a good blacksmith who's willing to let them use their forges to make them themselves (cuz having to commission them would take money they don't actually have)

Their suits thankfully are fine and reinforced, but over time they're gonna have to likely find a fabric that could replace the stuff their suits are made of or just switch to diffrent outfits inspired by their suits. Dick's Escrima Sticks can't be charged, so they end up not electrified until they find a way to do it later. Jason's guns inevitably run out of ammo then even if he makes his own, they get just damaged so he's forced to switch to the local pirate guns, thankfully not all are just flintlocks.

Damian's sword is apparently very high grade here and is very smug about it, though annoyed other "Swordsmen" keep wanting to know more about his blade and where he learned to use his "weird style". Tim gets a boa staff that has the ends tipped in sea stone.

Their styles also adapt over time. I have this vision of Dick getting his hands on these boots, probs with Dial technology, that let him jump higher and bounce off of walls if he times it right. Jason with Dial guns. They start picking up the 6 powers as well, not all, but Geppo and Soru become very heavily utilized. I think one of them should end up with Voice of all Things, either Cass or Duke, because it's fun lol.

Im... unsure about devilfruits, but I think it would be intrestin to explore if somone ate one, likely out of despration or having little choice. Unsure who or what fruit but just would be neat i think, expecially dealin with the side effects. Tho Dick with a Wind Logia or a winged Zoan of sorts sounds SO interesting. (Can you tell who my favorite batfam memeber is? ^-^')

As for Ponyglaph Runes, Bruce and Tim def find out about it and try their best to tackle it, but It's REALLY hard to learn an entirely different language with unfamiliar sentence structure when you have absolutely no keys or references to work with. They learn of Nico Robin, and aren't stupid so figure it's likely an awful cover-up or more to the story, and decide to lowkey make it one of their goals to track her or any other knowledge on how to learn it down. If they get even a bare hint of a clue on how to translate, I'm sure they'd figure it out over time, but Robin is their best bet.

They find out about Whitebeard, and they are quietly glad Bruce's adoption problem isn't that bad but think its funny. Dick is beloved by all and makes enough friends and allies to rival Luffy's charisma, it's a skill man. I can't decide if their Epithets in this world are just their Vigilante names, and they stay masked, or they get knew Epithets and decide there's no point in hiding, or a mix of both but yee.

The OP world either speaks "Common" they can all magically speak now with some diffrent launages in diff parts of the world, OR Japanese, which some of them know and have to teach the others, OR a weird mix of English and Japanese. There's a point in time that people think Damian is Nico Robin's child or sibling because of the Robin thing, and he's a little demon child. Or hell they still do, and he's very livid while Robin is both amused but also scared for this child who is being tied to her.

They still dont kill for the most part, baring Jason, but some of them are pushed into it and they have to figure out what that means for them and what it means moving fowrard with their no kill policy. Some do better with it, some dont. Bruce still hasnt and wont kill, same with Cass, and Damian decides he doesnt want to but will if absolutly no other choice is offered, thankfully they havnt let him had to make this choice yet. (I just have so much thoughts about a assassin raised child deciding they dont want their hands more red now they have the choice).

One or more of them should end up pulled into the War at Marineford and Ace should be saved because I will try to fit a Ace Lives plot into everything lol

Overall I think if this was a fanfic the plot would be a lot of exploring the differences in their worlds, how they adapt and overcome, and trying to find a way home while also coming to like this world and overturning corruption and fucking over the government. I think them with the Strawhats or another crew would be fun, either as allies or joined idk, but I think with them as their own crew would be cool as well. If they join or ally with a crew Bruce lowkey adopts everyone, and he's given SO much shit for it but christ so many of them have such sad backstories and he wants to help

I think in the end they should get to find their way home and like no time has passed, but they're so changed, and arguably considered powered now because lol, but find a way to go back and visit safely.

Sorry for the word vomit but man im in love with this idea. Feel free to comment or send Asks with questions or comments about the au! Please Reblog, and not just like, as they do nothing <3

[kiragecko]

One of the main reasons I love things like Reverse Robins AUs, is how they can help you figure out what's important to a character, and then look at those things through a fun house mirror to learn them better.

This is why my new favourite Reverse Robins concept is Tim, the second Robin, dying protecting a 4 year old Dick Grayson and his parents from the Court of Owls.

Part of why he dies is that Damian has made showing weakness so painful that he doesn't call for help. Dick leaves Gotham with his parents and gets another 5 years of happiness before they're killed by Tony Zucco. Tim becomes a Talon. He becomes active in Gotham when Jason is 16, and nobody knows who he is until Dick has become the newest Robin and the Court sentences Batman and Robin to death, a year and a half later.

Things that I find really satisfying about this idea:

It keeps the canon Dick+Tim 'Relationship Transformed by Kindness and Death' dynamic, but flips it. Instead of Dick being trapped in the place of his tragedy, surrounded by reminders, and Tim growing up silently watching him; we have Dick being whisked away from his tragedy, growing up surrounded by reminders of what's been saved.

It allows us to play with Jason's 'I Can't let Go of My Death and So I've Lost Myself and Everything I Loved' issues. Tim can't let go of his death, and it's his only link to himself and everything he's lost. He remembers saying 'The Flying Grayson's will fly again!' Keeping Dick alive is more important than avoiding being thrown back in the Labyrinth. Protecting Dick from the Court is his path back to his family.

It keeps the obsession and connection between Tim and Dick, instead of trying to convince the reader that Tim idealized Damian. I've struggled to translate Tim's motivation for becoming Robin in a reversed setting, and I can't make it work. This gives that motivation to Dick, instead, and allows us to explore how DICK would have been transformed by that one meeting. He didn't need love and affection in the same way Tim did. But I can see him holding on to the hope and heroism he saw, and instead of getting consumed by his rage when his parent's die, he's motivated to live up to Robin's legacy.

It gives a reason for my favourite reversed dynamic: instead of Bruce being broken by Jason's death, Bruce is convinced to step up by Tim's. In this universe, Bruce didn't choose either of his first 2 kids, and found it easier and safer to deny Tim even WAS his kid. (During Tim's tenure, Batman and Robin start patrol from the central Wayne Ent. Batcave, leaving the Manor to Damian, because it's easier than keeping Damian's vicious resentment and jealousy in line. Tim learns to mostly avoid the Waynes as civilians. Bruce deals with anything he sees, but doesn't confront the roots of the issues, and Tim loves being Robin but never feels particularly safe in the role.) Bruce 'got a kid killed' by holding him at arms length, and so, when Jason comes into his life and Bruce's attempts to find him a better place are stopped by corruption at every turn, Bruce chooses to truly become a parent.

One of the few things Tim remembers is his certainty that Robins aren't safe around Damian. This lets me keep Dick's canon struggles with Tim and Damian's conflicting needs. Both want to protect him, but Tim wants to protect him FROM Damian, and clingy baby Dick idolizes Tim, but NEEDS to hang off various parts of Damian for as much of the day as possible. Damian is drowning in guilt and wants to make Tim as comfortable as possible, but has committed to raising Dick. He can't let Tim stay between the 2 of them at all times.

It doesn't give as many hooks for Tim and Jason's relationship as I like. And I remain conflicted about whether Cass and Steph should come before Tim (to properly reverse canon) or after Tim (to make them contemporary with Jason, because he deserves to have contemporaries in AUs. Canon denied him). Duke is swapped with Babs, and I have fun thoughts about him, but that's a different post.

I don't think I can write this, but I want to see it!

[msfcatlover]

Nightwing!Damian would still be of the Corruption, though he has so many healthy relationships in his life that its influence on him is slipping. His swarm is smaller now than it’s ever been. His power fades day by day. He might even manage to be human again someday (he doesn’t know how he feels about that, when his swarm are so beloved & his monster side has always been a source of pride for Damian.)

Tim was always going to be of the Eye, being Oracle only doubles down on it.

Cass in the TMA AU is basically Agnes Montague, but for the Stranger. That wouldn’t change either.

Steph was only just starting out when Damian took her under his wing. She never fully got caught in the spiraling fixation on destroying her father by any means necessary, she couldn’t pursue one goal to the exclusion of all others, and as the first fully human (non-Alfred) member of the team, everyone would be doing their best to protect that humanity, monitoring her for any sign of supernatural influence and guiding her away before it could get its hooks in her (they are still Bruce’s children, after all.) Until she came out of the dirt, unsheltered & unprotected, already marked so many times over, with fear & rage boiling in her blood. Until Talia gave Steph her mind back, gave Steph a purpose again, and the rage boiled over plasmatic hate. Until Steph laughed like a roaring maelstrom, sparks crackling in her wild hair, something bordering on madness in her eyes, and Talia thought: Oh. I have made a mistake. (The storm would be leashed, eventually. Steph does have self control, she has goals to achieve, plans to make, and power alone could not do that. But in that moment, when Steph realized her killer was still killing people despite everything that had happened, in her pain & fury, she gave in. She stepped backwards off that invisible ledge and plunged headfirst into what she knew she was Becoming. She embraced it, wholeheartedly. In that moment, it almost wasn’t Stephanie Brown in that garden, but the Cataclysm itself inside her skin. Almost.)

Duke… I’m still struggling to think of a good match for, but honestly in this AU… His ability to connect, to make people listen to him, his desire to step up & save the city himself if he has to, and the fact Duke is the eldest/first batkid in this AU (giving him & Bruce even more in common when Batman had only ever fought alone) all make me want to say Web. BUT with his powers, his ability to lead a crowd, the sheer scale of his potential, I also want to say Vast? What little I know of Gnomon also says Vast, ALTHOUGH…. …we could play off their shadow control, invert Duke’s light powers for this AU, and say Dark. Which would make Duke borderline antithetical to Web!Bruce, but hey, maybe Web!Bruce wants to prove to himself just how much choice he still has—that the Web can make him as uncomfortable as it likes, but he’s still going to take care of a child in need. (Assuming he is going against the Web’s wishes, of course, and it isn’t reverse psychologying him…) (My gut says Web!Duke, though. The more I think about it, the more I like Web!Duke conceptually… but I am worried that it doesn’t fit him. That Duke’s all-or-nothing “if no one else is going to, I’ll do it myself” attitude & raw charisma is not close enough to the Web’s need for control. I don’t like it when people just assign characters an Entity for the Aesthetic(TM) or for shallow, surface-level reasons—it has to resonate with their own personal failings, or else what’s even the point?)

Jason was human when he joined the family, and they’d want to keep him that way… but I think by the time he gets back from the Red Robin arc, Jason would’ve been claimed by the Hunt.

Dick gets scooped up by the family almost immediately in this AU, and Cass does her best to temper in his early-days bloodlust. With Cass as his Batman, I think Dick would be tempted by the Vast, but ultimately chase after her by embracing his own Otherness. (Or Dick was already a Stranger when his parents fell. But honestly, I like the arc of Dick learning to love himself & following in his mentor’s footsteps so much more than making him a Stranger because Circus.)

[darthlordcommie]

Batman's Relationships with the "Batfam"

Alfred: Technically Alfred is his father-figure, but because Alfred actively chose to remain being Bruce's butler, and repressed his own issues, that just kneecapped Bruce's ability to heal, and enabled his worst impulses. Yes, they love each other, dearly. No, they will not communicate this unless they are on the brink of death.

Dick: I know, there's this whole thing with "eldest son". But first, Bruce was only in his early 20s when he took in Dick. And second, Bruce would have been actively avoiding trying to replace Dick's father, similar to Alfred. Their relationship is of close friends, and it isn't until they're both adults, well over a decade later, that either would even consider using familial terms to acknowledge each other. But that friendship is always the first level of their connection.

Barbara: There was hero worship that quickly died once Barbara got to see more of what Bruce is actually like. But there's still mutual respect and friendship, and Barbara is one of the few people Bruce actively listens to the input of.

Jason: Jason was the second Robin, but he was the first child who could accurately be called Bruce's son. When he meets Jason, Bruce is in a more balanced place in his life, he's on the path of healing, and he's willing to take in Jason not because he recognizes someone who's suffered the same way he has, like with Dick, but because he can help him. There's outright familial affection between Bruce and Jason, in ways we don't see with almost any other Batfam character. And then Jason dies, and Bruce's heart is shattered. Every single relationship Bruce has going forward is informed more by Jason's death than his parents'.

Tim: Tim and Bruce are a student and teacher. In many ways, Tim is Bruce's favorite student, but they aren't seeking family in each other, but that doesn't make their relationship any less deep or important to each other.

Cass: While a lot of comics tend to ignore or forget that Bruce outright adopted Cassandra to prove she would always have a home and family, the greatest truth is that Cass is Bruce's successor. Of all the batfam, she is the one who actively says she wants to take Bruce's place one day, and she believes in the cause of Batman stronger than anyone else. She was given a choice between cruelty and compassion, and like Bruce before her, she chose compassion. She's growing and improving, learning both from her own mistakes and from Bruce's, and ultimately, will be a greater hero than Batman before her.

Stephanie: A Mess. Not familial, but definitely a mess. Mostly because Steph's a victim of Batman writing at the time, and it never really got addressed to offer any improvement to her relationship with Bruce.

Damien: Damien is Bruce's son, but their relationship is fraught to say the least. Between being raised by the League, then Bruce being "dead" and Damien being raised/guided by Dick for a good amount of time, there's a lot of love there, but Damien is a victim of Bruce's decades of emotional repression and trauma in ways none of the other Batfam are, and both struggle to communicate, despite trying their best.

Duke, Luke, and Harper: All of these are colleagues at various levels of connection to Bruce. Duke is a younger vigilante just starting out, and Bruce is a grizzled veteran taking him under his wing, but not outright mentoring him the way he did the Robins. There's respect and teaching there, but not in the same way.

Kate Kane: They're cousins. They argue a lot.

[motherloads]

Right Side of My Neck

Pre! Identity Reveal. Alt. timeline of my first Tim Drake fic ◡̈

Me when me when I see readers fawn over my other fics, asking for pt. 2 but what I give is this: Tim Drake and Spider-Woman! Reader *cheering noises*

Summary: The reader is a new hero in Gotham City, known as Spider-Woman. Despite knowing of the no-meta rule, she continues to patrol the city in broad daylight.

What's to say that the bats are allowing this? At every meeting, they try and stop the unknown woman from fighting their battles. With no idea of who she is, they are struggling to maintain their no-meta rule.

Unknowingly, she forms a friendship with Tim Drake and Stephanie Brown. Shameless flirting ensues when she starts to connect the identity of the bats.

Who is she but not a Spider who captures her prey?

-> Pairings: Tim Drake x Reader

-> Marvel/DC Crossover

->Warnings: None!

not proof read! oops,,,

⋆｡°✩

You looked back at me once.  But I looked back two times.

"At some point, you need to realize that maybe, just maybe, you need to start advertising the no meta rule?" Stephanie Brown questions Bruce Wayne. She taps her feet impatiently, watching the man skim through the news reports of Spider-Woman. His separate file regarding the woman is on his other monitor.

"I do not have a no meta-rule,"  Bruce grumbles as he cross referencing similar heroes who tried to debut in the past. None match up and it was as if Spider-Woman did not exist before. Not in any city, town, or country was she ever sighted. It was as if she was a ghost.  

"Technically you do," Duke shrugs, "You always growl about no meta's being allowed in Gotham. I was the exception, remember?"

"I do not growl," Bruce points a glare at Duke who shrugs shamelessly. "Aren't you supposed to be out patrolling? Go find the new hero, only god knows what she's up to."

Duke ignores his comment, deciding to suit up for patrol to escape Bruce's ongoing investigation. 

"I thought we agreed to not use feminine pronouns," Steph reprimands, "They haven't revealed their identity. We can't just assume they go by she and her." 

"I'm too old for this," Bruce sighs, "But fine. Can someone atleast try and follow their tale? I have meetings back to back today." 

"I'll get Tim on this," Stephanie agrees, "But, before that. I think Alfred sent us his grocery list for the week." Stephanie waves goodbye to Duke and Bruce. 

⋆｡°✩

"Spider-Woman is a menace!" Her coworker reads out loud, "A menace to society and for the vigilantes in black. God! Jameson is one hell of a woman to be blasting the new hero out this way." He throws the newspaper away, shaking his head in annoyance, "I think they're pretty cool! Their helmet matches perfectly with the Red Hood. I wonder if they have some sort of alliance."

"I don't think so." Another coworker pipes up, bagging the groceries for her customer, "I don't think they have the ability to kill villains the same way Red Hood does. They probably have some moral code? I think they'd match Nightwing the best."

"Definitely not Robin. He's too...aggressive for Spider-Woman to deal with. Plus, he's a kid, so they'd probably argue." Her final and third coworker shrugs, "I honestly like that they're a solo hero."

"What if there is more like them? Like a Spider-Society where they protect the multiverse," She spoke out against her coworkers, grinning shamelessly at her reveal, "Spider-Women in the Spider-Verse."

"Now where do you get that idea from?" A new voice muses. They all turn their heads to see Timothy Drake. His eyes, as tired as ever, make eye contact with the girl. He smiles at her in response to her staring, "Seems like a far-fetched idea." 

"I know them," She grins, leaning against her counter, looking at Tim from beneath her lashes. She senses him squirm in response to her look, "Might even know their identity." She teases. 

"Care to share? I'd love to know, for research purposes." 

Her grin widens at his response, cocking her head innocently at Tim who continued to squirm in her gaze. "Why? Want to ask them out on a date?" 

"No-No. I'm just curious! Does that mean you don't know?" 

She pushes herself off the counter, continuing to check Tim out. She noticed the array of coffee flavors and things that are normally on her customer's grocery list. She assumed he was doing his own for his butler, Alfred. 

"Of course not. I'm just a college student." She shrugs, "50.42. Will that be cash or card?"

Tim mumbles his answer, passing her his card for the transcation. His face still felt hot from her onslaught, but he decided to ignore how fast his heart was beating. Instead, he focused on her hands. Her hands were a light shade of purple as if she was healing from a bruise. 

"Hey wha-" He gets cut off when she passes his card back to him. She tilts her head at him, making his heart stop again. 

"What?" She asks.

"Nothing, Nothing. I-See you later?" She nods in response, watching Tim walk away from her counter quickly. She felt a laugh bubble up from inside of her.

"God, you're shameless." Her coworker sneered. She only laughs in response. 

⋆｡°✩

"If I were a villain, where would I be?" She hummed, moving across the rooftop she was on. Her helmet's eyes furrowed, zooming in on a robbery in a nearby bakery.

"Gotcha," She whispers, moving down to the bakery. She notices the baker being held at gunpoint as customers run out of the store. She paid no mind to the customers who tried to push her aside as she stepped foot into the scene.

"Hey! Mr. Big Bad Wolf! Has anyone ever told you not to huff and puff in a bakery before?!" She paused at her words, suddenly realizing her mistake, "Sorry, Sorry. I think I mixed up my fairytales."

The robber immediately drops his gun and himself to the ground. Shaking like a leaf, the robber immediately starts blabbing out an apology. "I swear I had no bullets! I swear- I just need money! My kid's in trouble! He's sick and I-" She cuts him off, webbing the gun and bringing it to her.

"The shelter across the streets offers monthly emergency grants to 20 lucky folks each month. Luckily, the application opens tomorrow. I'd recommend you apply to it instead and-" She pulls out her wallet, free from any sort of identification. Counting silently, she slides a hundred to the man. "This should cover the medicine until you receive the emergency grant. If not, just tell the clerk Spider-Woman sent you."

The man nods frantically, taking the hundred and running out of the bakery. The baker sighs in relief, sliding down the wall hazardously, "I thought today was my last day, genuinely..." "Not your time yet, I suppose," She begins to skim through the selection, humming to herself as she reads the items out loud, "Lemon Pie sounds good. I'll take a slice." The baker immediately stands, rinsing their own hands from the dirt on the floor. In the blink of an eye, they were packaging a whole lemon pie.

"I said one," Spider-Woman frowns as the baker pushes the box to her. She could smell the lemon wafting off of the pie from where she stood.

"It's a thank you. Also on the house," The baker responds instead, "I'm Felicia by the way. Felicia Hardy."

"Nice to meet you, Felicia," Spider-Woman nods as Felicia smiles warmly. Her smile disappeared when the door jiggled. A person came into the bakery.

She felt no reaction with her spider senses. No imminent danger was presented. When she looks, she is immediately face-to-face with Nightwing, "Funny seeing you here. I swore just yesterday you were at Bludhaven, Mr. Wing!"

"Had some business to take care of here," The man easily grins, nodding at the baker in return as she stares in awe. "A little bird told me you were sighted in a bakery. Wanted to see the situation." The minute he ended his sentence, she felt another presence in the bakery.

"Little Bird? Does it happen to be Robin?" She questions casually, leaning against the countertop. She rested her hand on the bag with her lemon pie.

"How do you always know," A younger voice scoffs. The occupants in the bakery turn to the corner shrouded in darkness. There, stood Robin in his little mighty glory.

"The spider in the corner told me so," She responds instead, "Now...are you both going to take me in?"

"That's the plan," Nightwing grins, "Want to put your lemon pie on the side?"

"No, it's fine," She tightens her grip on the bag, "Got places to be, Mr, Wing. You'd understand, right?"

"Answer our question first," Robin spits out, stepping forward into the light. His katana, held menacingly and glinting from the lights was pointed at her. "Why did you let the robber go? He could have been lying and you let a man go. He could kill someone!"

"Listen, kid," She sighs, "I don't have to tell you anything- We aren't teammates and in no way, do I want the Bats in my business." She pauses at her words, feeling her nose wrinkle from under her helmet. Stepping closer to Robin, she takes a long, deep breath.

"You have a dog?" Both Nightwing and Robin tense at her words, "A smell lingers from you. You live on a farm?" She turns her head to Nightwing and does the same to him, "Do you like swimming? You have chlorine in your hair." When both of the vigilantes stayed rooted in their spot, both from equal shock, she continued. "You smell like someone I see around here. Are you in contact with Tim Drake?"

With that, she shoots four simultaneous webs at the duo's feet. Rooting them to their spot, she salutes them and runs out of the bakery.

⋆｡°✩

At this point, the constant meetings with the Bat's made her realize the similarities they all hold with one another and a particular person she loved to tease. Nightwing and mini Robin were not the only ones who had that particular scent.

When she met Black Bat, she noticed how the smell was not as intense but still lingered on her person. Specifically to the gadgets she had on her self, they had a combination of metals that had created it and everything that screamed Tim.

When she met Signal, it wasn't the same. He had more of a scent on him compared to Black Bat. Specifically his hands and shoulders, although she wasn't sure why. When she began to do her research and find blurry photos of Signal and pictures she had taken of Tim, she realized Tim stood shorter than the vigilante.

Batman himself never strayed close enough to where she can smell him. He always maintained a distance, as if he knew what she had been researching. But he had no clue, right?

Tim's scent lingered on Red Hood and apparently they likely had many fist fights with one another because of how strong it stayed on the older man's fists. Hell, if she was near him close enough (which was almost always never) she can catch a hint of blood.

Spoiler had the second biggest scent out of all of the Bat's. Tim's scent was everywhere to her hair, skin, suit, and shoulder. This had made her go crazy, but don't tell anyone else that it was embarrassing when she had stumbled into Spoiler's arms to make sure there wasn't anything apparent on her face.

But doing so made her realize how similar she smelled to Stephanie.

Red Robin had been the one who easily dodged her efforts to get anything off of him. If she thought Red Hood was hard, then she was in for quite a shock when Red Robin kicked her helmet, knocking her back a notch.

"I know what you're trying to do!" He shouts at her, "The others have told me you have been taking big sniffs at them, what are you even planning?"

"I'm testing a hypothesis," She grits out, adjusting her helmet's lenses as Red Robin kicked them out of place, "I just need to confirm something, just hold still!"

"No!" He calls out, taking out his grappling hook in a quick motion. He makes no sound of a goodbye as he shoots away. Scoffing under her breath, she easily sticks a web onto the mans shoulder.

Pulling herself back, she launches herself onto the vigilante's back. He yelps in shock, not expecting her to latch on around his waist. Her arms wrap around his neck as she tilted his head back. Taking a hard sniff, her senses went into overdrive when she realized how familiar his smell was.

Sighing in relief, she leans her head further into his shoulder, she is interrupted from her thoughts as he lands on a rooftop. Trying to remove her, he grabs at the arms that would not budge. Then, he tried her legs. It was the same outcome.

"Come on!" He growls, "Get off!"

"No," She spits back, "You're an asshole!"

"I didn't even do anything! You're the one smelling the entirety of all the Bats! What next? Going to sniff Joker?!"

She steps one foot down but immediately goes to kick the back of his legs. Red Robin falters as he falls to the floor. Above him, she sits on his lap. They both stare at one another.

"I was wondering why every single Bat had this one recognizable scent," She begins, her frown masked by her helmet, "It drove me crazy, Red. Absolutely crazy that I thought the person I knew was being stalked."

She sees Red Robin's mask furrow in confusion. Still, he made no effort to move her off of him. "Even smelled the clothes he let me borrow. To see how similar it was."

Removing her helmet, Red Robin stares in shock as the spider's eyes were revealed. A familiar color he couldn't help but feel a blush rise from his face and around his ears. He noticed her eyes shift to his neck, that was most likely red as well.

He could not see her lower half, she had it covered with a mask the same color as her suit.

"Tim, did you know that cologne never truly washes out?" She leans close to his face, brushing a strand of his hair away from covering his mask. Tim felt his breath hitch at the name unroll from her tongue. One syllable and one identity reveal. "I think you need to prioritize washing the smell out." She tilts her head, her eyes crinkling as she smiled under the mask.

"How-" Now, Tim pushed her off of him. Doing his own move, which she made no effort to stop, he landed between her thighs. She was on the floor, staring up at him. He was on his knees as his breathing became uneven.

"Right side of my neck always smelled like you," She muses, "Whenever you gave me a hug, it would always linger. I liked it a lot."

Without a second thought, Tim pulls off the woman's mask.

He stares at a familiar face, who smiles at him. The cute smile he always felt shy about and guilty that he constantly lied to them. The cute smile that was apart of his profile picture of her.

The cute smile of the person who he would have never thought was the vigilante they were chasing after.

He breathes out her name.

"Hey, Tim."

[5-7-9]

(Disclaimer: i am ignoring every part i found stupid or unnecessary. Also i have a picture limit 😔)

Duke obviously met Batman/Wayne first but I’m skipping that. So he met Alfred secondly, in an uncharacteristic particular way. (As much as I’m confused as to why Alfred, someone who’s against Bruce being Batman would employ child soldiers himself, and I believe in the self motivated movement of children, this is technically canon).

Alfred made a deal with Duke to do vigilantism and he’d help him do it (he also promised to help find his parents but Duke managed it himself). Alfred saved WAR from an Owl assassin with a tank. WAR was very distrusting of being lead by a mysterious man, so they eventually stopped listening after they stopped a school shooting Alfred ordered not to. Eventually Duke reveals he figured out Alfred’s identity, linking back to Duke’s puzzle solving trait. Now the Robins: Dick’s first interaction with Duke is him chastises children wearing his symbol. Dikc, speaking like the truly privileged man he is, acts like WAR is childish for trying to help out. Now, is WAR irresponsible? Yes. Solid advice although ominous. It’s just extremely impersonal to their feelings and lives and motivations.

Since the first interaction Duke ever has with the other Robins, it was Damian that had a very particular dynamic. Damian hated the We Are Robins movement.

If you don’t already know, Damian’s primary characterization is his insistence that he must inherit his honour. One of primary reasons why he takes up the Robin mantle is because he believes it is his right to do so.

Another interesting dynamic was Jason’s and Tim’s reaction to WAR

Notably, Jason Todd was fully on board for WAR on the basis of it’s outside influence from Batman. Understandable considering Jason’s tense relationship from Batman, and his anti-hero status. Tim Dranke on the otherhand, doesn’t have any say to WAR’s existance, as his opinion is interrupted by mentioning Dick’s plot. Or more likely, he doesn’t have an opinion to comment on, which is why he only mentions facts of like the location of where the Robins are.

Again, Jason Todd is extremely supportive of WAR and Damian is not (inbred is a bit much 💀). But Tim Drake still insists on trying to better understand the WAR children, taking a neutral and outsider understanding of the situation. Tim does not support WAR immediately. In fact, despite Tim’s insistence to understand WAR, he never gets the chance to.

This the last and only time Tim ever even tries talking with WAR, during a sneak in. Apparently he couldn’t have done this during his time training the Robins, but doing it while working is fine. His terrible conversation starter gets interrupted, and that is the last and only time Drake ever tries connecting with WAR. Apparently monitoring their private lives was not enough information, all he knows is somebody can play the piano. So much for trying. (Tom King wrote this part tho, so I feel he was supposed to be the one to make it happen, which didn’t happen, so Tom did a horrible job). (I’m ignoring the scene where Tim downplays Izzy because Izzy was OOC).

Dami beat up the WAR members and agitated them into battle. Another show of Dami’s honor culture, but what was so fascinating was how Duke and the WARs fought back to prove themselves although not wishing to fight.

Skipping to when Dami and Duke get captured, they funnily enough get put into the same cage as Duke insults Dami in his mind while having a reasonable outer dialogue which i found fun.

Despite the weird court of owl part, Duke’s dialogue was a great way to finish off the tension between the official Robins and the WARs. Duke realizes how personal Robin is to Dami, how the symbol is not just about justice, but the ties to Batman it comes with. Y’know what Duke does? He cuts it off. He refuses to sacrifice himself to become a symbol.

They end off on good terms after that. With Dami reclaiming the title of Robin (and WAR’s disbandment), the conflict is gone. But I think it’s worth noting just how much Dami’s influence on Duke’s view of Robin might’ve been. Being Robin kinda sucks. So out of pity, Duke realizes Dami needs some loving support.

(Not a batfam kid but she was in here and I’m working by chronological order). Kate and Duke have a small interaction but they definitely met. Plus I think Duke was retconned to have known Luke through his dad and I think that’s a great addition.

Skips ahead where Jayson seems to train with Duke, their sass competitions tho 💀 Also, Jayson considers Duke as one of his brothers 😆

Classic Alfred advice talks

(You’ll notice that the writers decided to skip showing Duke’s development, this is why we need fanfiction thanks). Basically, Duke started hanging out with Cass for seemingly no reason, but they are a really fun dynamic. Plus Duke got to know Babs first through Cass. (I'm ignoring when Riko met Babs as batgirl and when Babs as batgirl defended WAR cheerfully).

Cass and Duke also train together (i really like the illustrator here aaaaaaaaa Duke and Cass are so cute here 🥺).

This storyline was bad but it really pushed Cass and Duke together as Cass was there when Duke got his new shadow powers and Duke was there when Shiva was being a jerk to Cass for some reason?? They coordinated attacks as a duo so that was nice. Plus, Duke thinks of Cass as his sis. (Is this specifically catered to me? Yeah, yeah…. I’m tots falling for the putting the minorities together thingy like a sucker, but themmmmmmmm!!! 🥹)

Duke and Kate actually teamed up in action once (offhandedly 😔) so that’s neat.

(Hold on I reached my picture limit but there’s a part 2)

[himejoshiangels]

I fucking love we are robin they were so huddling in the back booth of the restaurant izzys family ran trying not to laugh while ordering, surfing on the tops of trains, learning how to treat a bullet wound crowding around the phone frantically collecting google searches, taking more hits than they were landing, listening to dax play shitty guitar in his garage while skipping classes, playing dnd in rikos basement, making snide comments while duke and dre argue again for the eighth time that day and watching duke try to resist dre bribing him with his cooking, being connect to someone you don't know halfway across town because they too know that with batman gone someone has to take care of this city someone has to do something and it might as well be you

[brucewaynehater101]

adding to my last ask, the rest of the album is so similar to the Batfam

Loves like Ghosts - Batcat or BruTalia

Until the Night Turns - Dick (the vibes esp)

Dead Man’s Hand - Jason

-> pretty obvious why 💀. I see it as Jason talking abt his old self with the “tired of a life that never felt like his” line

Hurricane (Johnnie’s theme) - Dick, Jason, and Steph(Cass)

-> I mostly saw it as Stephcass but there were definitely lyrics that applied to Dick (thrill) and Jason (dying lol)

La Bella Fleur Sauvage - DickBabs

The World Ender - Steph (with the romantic lines being shaded between Cass and Gotham) or Jason (with the romantic lines being completely abour Gotham)

-> I feel like it fits Jason better bc it’s literlaky abour being back from the grave but alas

Meet Me in the Woods - Tim(Bern)

The Yawning Grave - ALFRED AND BRUCE ALFRESH AND BRUCE. This is so important to me omg

Cursed - where “she” is Gotham and the speaker is any of the Batfam (sans Cass I think)

Way out There - Damian (“I’m just wearing old bones from those who came first”) (“you” being Dick) or StephCass from Cass’s pov

The Night We Met - the BatSiblings (sans Duke bc he wasn’t adopted yet) during Bruce’s death

There weren’t any I could connect to Duke specifically but yeah 😞

Loves Like Ghost definitely gives of Talia to Bruce vibes. The lyrics of "what ain't living can never really die. You don't want me baby please don't lie. Oh but if you're leaving, I gotta know why." "And if I can't have you then no one ever will." "Baby in my eyes you do no wrong. I don't feel it till it hurts sometimes. So go on baby hurt me tonight."

Until the Night Turns is a cool song. Perhaps you would elaborate more on why you think it fits Dick? The vibes are pretty on, but jot too sure about the lyrics.

Dead Man's Hand does fit Jason. "Sure as hell he was dead as they come and he was already starting to smell. Just a kid with his hair slicked back and a knife tucked into his belt. Was he unforgiven or just tired of living a life that never felt like his?" "I know I'm dead but I don't wanna lie in a grave out here where the coyote's cry. I stared right into the endless void and I ain't going back if I got any choice. I know how to live, I don't know how to die and there ain't no thrills in the afterlife."

Hurricane. I do think that all of the batkids are adrenaline junkies but I do see how the lyrics fit those ones especially.

La Bella Fleur Savage - Google says Fleur means both flower and resilience. I can see how that fits Babs and how the song resembles her love with Dick.

The World Ender - I love this song for Steph. She deserves to get her revenge. She did kind of die with Black Mask, but she didn't really do a revenge thing like Jason. On the other hand she "won't ever feel the embrace of the grave" because she revived before being buried.

Meet Me in the Woods - I see how this is TimBern especially because Bernard isn't in the vigilante business (so he won't really understand what Tim's been through).

The Yawning Grave - Alfred warning Bruce not to become Batman, of its dangers, of the likelihood of him dying, fits so well. He told him when he was a kid, but Bruce still went down with this path

Cursed - I agree that Cass isn't tied to Gotham like the others. If "she" was Gotham, that does fit the others. I raise you, though. What if "she" was their mission or vigilantism? That then fits all of them.

Way out There - Oof. That definitely fits Damian and I love that analysis of him.

The Night We Met - I agree, however, there's a tik tok that has an animation of this song. It absolutely kills my soul every time I see it. It has Bruce singing this about Jason: "I had all," Jason as Robin, "and then most of you," Jason dying, "some and," Jason's grave, "now none of you," Jason as Red Hood. "Take me back to the night we met." The tire jacking night.

We definitely need some Duke songs out there. If anyone has any songs that fit Duke, feel free to comment or reblog with them!!!!

[fantastic-nonsense]

hey i saw your answer to the ask about alfred making damian robin in battle for the cowl. while i 100% agree that is not what happened in bftc, outside of that comic i think alfred has a lot more involvement. im not sure if this is a post-crisis exclusive blog, but in secret origins (2014) #4 we see alfred's feelings on damian and his conclusion that damian would listen to no one else except his father. so alfred forges a letter from bruce that asks damian to be robin. the end of the comic shows that dick knows alfred forged that letter but imo leaves it pretty open-ended as far as dick's decision. if you ask me, i think dick talked to alfred about damian being his robin or alfred picked up that things were going to way and decided to pull this to make that transition easier for everyone. sorry is this is weirdly nitpicky or contrarian im just really a sucker for alfred and damian's relationship.

[referencing this response on how the transition from Tim to Damian as Robin was handled]

Preface: I am not a post-Crisis universe exclusive blog (far from it), but since 1) the New 52 era's attempts at dealing with the Batfamily are a mess and a pain to deal with for a variety of reasons, and 2) the post-Crisis universe was and remains the definitive interpretation for most of the Batfamily's history and the basis for their interactions with each other, it's what I tend to default to when writing meta...especially in cases where the events under discussion originally happened in post-Crisis continuity. The exceptions to that tend to be characters introduced post-Flashpoint (ex: Duke), who have no previous continuity bogging them down, and characters who have had the majority of their stories and development take place post-Flashpoint (ex: Damian).

That being said, while I am aware that Secret Origins (2014) and particularly that story exists and have read it, I tend to default to ignoring it for a few reasons:

One, it's a story whose events make little sense within either post-Crisis continuity or post-Flashpoint continuity as they otherwise exist; minimally, the timeline doesn't match up in either case.

More specifically for the purposes of writing a meta about the transfer of the Robin mantle from Tim to Damian, it rewrites Damian into the pre-Reborn era Batfamily very awkwardly by pretending he was always there. It shows a League clothes-clad Damian taking on Victor Zsasz and Professor Pyg (which he did not do until he was already Dick's Robin) while pretending that Bruce had time to try and connect with him before he "died" (which, he didn't; Damian appears in two stories prior to Battle for the Cowl—Batman & Son and Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul—and his interactions with Bruce are fairly minimal in Resurrection).

It is a clumsy attempt to integrate Damian into the pre-Batman R.I.P timeline that ignores all of the ways in which Damian's early relationships with his father and the rest of the Batfam (particularly Dick and Tim) are directly informed by the fact that he wasn't there during that time period:

[Alfred, Dick, and Tim watch The Magnificent Seven in Wayne Manor in the immediate aftermath of Bruce's death. Damian is not present, as he was still living with Talia. An empty chair between Dick and Tim marks Bruce's usual 'movie night' seat] -Nightwing #151 (2009)

I thus find it very unhelpful to use in any capacity when discussing and analyzing interactions between those characters in the aftermath of Bruce's death.

Two, while I have no love for Battle for the Cowl, Tomasi effectively ignoring it completely beyond "Gotham was in chaos following Bruce's death" doesn't sit right with me either, especially since it was referenced (even obliquely) in several other New 52-era books.

Three, I love Alfred and Damian's relationship. I think it's one of Damian's most important relationships and we should talk more about it. But I also love Alfred and Dick's relationship, so I'm not particularly enamored with a reimagining where Alfred is the one who orchestrates Damian's takeover of the Robin mantle largely unilaterally. That's not his call to make beyond a suggestion to Dick that it might be good for him. I also think it takes a lot of agency away from Dick in the one transfer of his mantle that he canonically actually has control over and undermines a big aspect of Dick and Damian's relationship development to take those decisions out of Dick's hands and give them to "Bruce."

Four, and probably most importantly: that story is never referenced before or after that issue. That origin for Damian is long gone. Its portrayal of his childhood was revamped in Robin: Son of Batman. Its reconceptualization of Damian's entrance into the Batfamily has not been acknowledged since. DC's larger refusal to acknowledge Dick and Damian's time as Batman and Robin beyond subtle references ended during the Rebirth era. New 52!Tim quite literally wasn't Tim Drake and was only restored to being himself again post-Rebirth, so 99% of the interactions between Tim and Damian from 2011-2016 have been effectively discarded as non-canon. And whenever Damian becoming Robin is referenced after Secret Origins #4, it is nearly always referenced as Dick choosing him as Robin rather than him becoming Robin "at his father's request." So there's little incentive for me to acknowledge it given that it generally appears to not be canon beyond the scope of the New 52 era of post-Flashpoint continuity.

I'm sorry that this probably isn't the answer you wanted to read, but I hope this gives you a better idea of why I specifically choose to stick to post-Crisis and post-Rebirth continuities when discussing the transfer of the Robin mantle from Tim to Damian.

[zahri-melitor]

My comments on the Extended Generational Sorting Algorithm:

Gosh there are some murky in-betweens here.

G-1 – JSA and teams like the All-Star Squadron and the Blackhawks. The WWII edition. This is occasionally merged with G0 as timelines shift, but includes Hippolyta, Ted Knight, Sandra Knight (as Phantom Lady), Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, etc. A lot of this cohort have aging issues and several have grandkids in G1 or G1.5. Zinda simultaneously belongs to this group and G1.5.

G0 – JSA, the gap between WWII and the first JLA. This is the younger JSA cohort who aren’t so tied to WWII and the gap after. Dinah Drake. Ted Grant. Johnny Quick. Giovanni Zatara. Walter Chase (the Acro-Bat). Bruce’s parents. The Kents. Jim Gordon. Etc.

G1 – JLA land! Bruce, Clark, Diana, Ollie, Barry, Hal, Arthur, etc. You know them. Your idea of a headlining JLA includes these folk.

G1.5 – Birds of Prey and JLI zone. Characters too old to be Titans cohort but younger/clearly different than the G1 headliners. Barbara Gordon and Dinah Lance are the stalwarts of this group, plus I’ll add Helena Bertinelli, Cameron Chase, Kate Spencer, Kendra, etc. I guess I’d probably put Harley Quinn, agewise, here too. Also would add Beatriz, Tora, Booster, Ted Kord, etc. Guy and Zatanna sort of bounce between here and G1 depending on storyline.

G2 – it’s the Titans! Dick, Donna, Wally, Roy, Garth, Victor, Gar, Kory, Raven etc. Their agebounds are probably Roy as the oldest and Gar as the youngest, though Gar’s given to them as a courtesy – he’s realistically a member of G2.5, he just hangs with G2. We also add Kyle and Connor and Jesse Quick etc to this cohort despite them not being core Titans given their strong connections to particularly Donna and Wally.

G2.5 – The JL Taskforce kids and Jason’s non-existent team. Ray Palmer’s Teen Titans. This is a group of individuals that has never properly coalesced. Overlaps in age with both the bottom of G2 and the top of G3 but distinctly don’t belong to either. Jason, Ray, Grant, Argent, Cynthia, Eddie, Snapper Carr, plus Danny Chase and arguably Gar all fall into this group. Rose Wilson overlaps with G3 but vibeswise probably also belongs to this group. I am tossing up whether Anissa and Jennifer Pierce belong here or in G2.

G3 – Young Justice. Tim, Kon, Cassie, Bart, Cissie, Greta, Anita. Cass Cain belongs here despite being the same age as several G2.5s. Steph, Charlie, Black Alice, Jaime, Zachary Zatara, even a handful of the newer folk like Jinny Hex slot in here. Several Supergirls including current Kara, Courtney Whitmore IS a member of this group and the three oldest Marvel kids (Billy, Mary and Freddy) are currently aged into this.

G4 – Damian’s Teen Titans. Damian, Jon Kent (yes even still with the age up), Emiko Queen, Ace West etc. If they are still a teen right now in DC storytelling or SHOULD be a teen, they belong here (if they’re a teen and SHOULDN’T be they’re probably a G3/G5). The Gotham Academy kids. Arguably the Titan Academy kids too? Agewise the DEO Titans kids but spiritually probably not (also the chances of us ever seeing them again is…low) The younger Marvel kids (Eugene, Pedro and Darla especially) are with this group.

G5 – so this group are either alternate G3 or G3.5s. Too new and too un-networked with G3 to be absorbed. Jace Fox, Yara Flor, Jackson Hyde, Duke Thomas and the We Are Robin cohort all belong here. Kong Kenan, Avery Ho, etc also are members.

G6 – Titans Offspring Gen. Almost everyone in this group has been artificially aged, which is a thing, hey. Lian, Irey, Jai, Cerdian, Robbie. Maxine, obviously. Otho and Osul-Ra.

G7 – Help I’m From Earth-One: Power Girl and Helena Wayne.

G8 – The Lost Children – also Help I’m From Earth-One in a lot of respects but they’re in their teens, not adults. May get folded into other groups if they get more use.