#madeleine gross

[tryppi]

Two Lovers | Madeleine Gross

[psikonauti]

Madeleine Gross

Lake Figure, 2022

Acrylic paint on original photography

[octarinespill]

Madeleine Gross - Good Morning, Babe

[lesmisscraper]

The Beginning of Repose. Volume 1, Book 6, Chapter 1.

Clips from <Il cuore di Cosette>.

[polkadotmotmot]

Madeleine Gross - Embrace, 2024 - Acrylic on original photograph

[murfpersonalblog]

I wanted to respond to this post & tags by @mdeitrick13, after I saw @fishjellylou's response here.

I HATE book!film!Louis. It's actually a very popular opinion, esp. wrt film!Louis--there's a lot to hate, without ever getting into morality politics--from his plethora of stupid life choices, to his hypocrisy, to his whiny attitude, etc. And wrt to pimps & slavery specifically, we can get into all the ways owning & controlling people's bodies, freedom, & autonomy/agency is effed up. But where exactly does LOUIS exhibit any of that behavior towards Armand--book, film, and esp. on the show??? 🤔

Almighty all-powerful all-gifted uber-privileged vamps can get away with literal murder: Lestat can spitefully beat the hell out of Lou, Armand can sadistically torture HUMAN!Daniel, the coven can gleefully kill Claudia & Madeleine (who literally did nothing), Armand can petulantly drive the mentally ill (Nicki & Louis) to suicide--but disenfranchised weak AF desperate HUMAN!Black Louis is "worse" than all of the vamps, cuz he was a pimp who tried navigating the crap hand he'd been dealt the most effective way he could? 🤨🤨🤨

What did Louis do as a human pimp that makes him so much "worse" as a person than Armand is? Since when does AMC/the show or Lou absolve himself of guilt for being a pimp OR a vampire? In Lou's eyes, evil is evil, and he doesn't give vampires a pass AT ALL--eff all the "biological imperatives" Rashid was simpering about. Since when are demonic serial killing cannibals given a pass in the IWTV Morality Olympics, over prostitution? Cuz prostitution & vampirism BOTH exploit human vulnerability & weakness & bodies, and by the show's logic, one is no better or worse than the other--ALL vampires on this show are COMPLICIT as predators feeding off the lives & miseries of humans. Santiago only used the stupid "vampires are monsters" excuse to justify his personally-motivated vendetta to kill Louis, dismissing Lou's experiences to absolve Lestat's flagrant abuse of power against the man he claimed to love whom he knew was weaker than him and thus intentionally "broke."

The whole point of show!Loumand's dynamic is right here:

ARMAND, the 400+ year old Coven Master, stalked & approached & invited & courted LOUIS. Louis never spoke or utilized his past as a pimp when they met. Armand knew Louis was afraid of him ("I thought he was going to kill me....I sensed his ancient power"), and he promised Louis (who'd suffered from SEVERE PTSD after the last older more powerful vampire broke every bone in his body), that he would never hurt Louis, "and I never have," LOL.

In ANY of Loumand's courtship, where does Louis having formerly been a pimp give him ANY advantage over Armand, or the coven? 🤔

Where does pimp!Louis factor in as the "gross" part of their meeting & courtship--when Lou explicitly told Armand & the whole coven that they were NOT companions, and that he had ZERO interest in Armand tryna RECRUIT Louis to join Armand's coven (*cough* CULT *cough*)? 🤔 Who's pimping whom in this situationship? 🤔

Esp. since Claudia's the one who was actually recruited, to try to lure LOUIS in as the one they REALLY wanted to join, so offended when Lou refused ("[Madeleine] must join or die."). They used the same Charles Manson-style cult tactics on Claudia AND Louis!

Rolin explicitly used Charles Manson music in 1x5, but y'all keep missing the links between Lestat & Armand's treatment of Louis & Claudia to talk about how Armand was groomed & abused--by WHOM?! Certainly not LOUIS! And here the tags go AGAIN tryna link Louis with Marius. 🤦‍♀️ (I cannot WAIT till y'all show-onlies actually see Marius in action, not just picking up crap from hearsay.)

Where is Louis the predator out to harm Armand? How is Armand the one being "grossly" threatened by Lou, pimp or otherwise? When did Louis rape Armand, or pimp him out, or "donate" him to someone else? For all Louis' claims that "he's mine" cuz Lou got to top someone who's not his Maker, how does Louis actually come out on top or benefit, being with Armand? 🤔

For all Armand's simpering about "Are you asking me or making me, Maitre?," where does Louis FORCE Armand to do ANYTHING? Louis states what he wants to do/happen (make Madeleine for Claudia; save Daniel from Armand killing him), and Lou gives Armand the CHOICE to do it it or not. Armand could've had the whole coven descend on Lou the night Lou made Madeleine (as we see in the movie, which clearly noticed the same thing)--instead, we learn that he was actually writing/rehearsing the Trial script the whole time jfc 💀💀💀. He could've snapped Daniel's neck, and what could crispety!Lou have done to stop him, hobbling around all burnt up? But he complies, cuz he'd already sabotaged Loustat's chance to get back together by not telling Lou that Les said he loved him; instead CHOOSING to stay with the man who literally just said he's bored & hates being with Armand & literally just tried to kill himself rather than be with Armand anymore--like WTF???? But ARMAND'S the one who's been in danger from Louis!? 🤣 THIS dude!?

OK, Lou was a pimp, but Armand was running the frikkin vampire MOB in Paris--a literal biker gang of Charles Manson sickos! An effing wet room full of offed "heretics and rule breakers" (inc NICKI, who was NEITHER--SUS!!!) buried in the frikkin walls of his torture-basement, but Lou's "worse" for being a HUMAN!hustler, when Armand's a whole cult-leading mobster his effing self!?

On top of the legit torture we see him do to HUMAN!Daniel, playing with his effing food worse than anything we saw Lestat pull in S1.

(x x x x x)

How does Lou having been a pimp protect him from Armand lying about "Banishment," or having his mind wiped for 77 years, or Armand going behind Lou's back to tear out Claudia's diary pages Lou didn't even know about, or Armand throwing Daniel (& Sam & the Talamasca) under the bus to keep gaslighting Lou about the script?

Where does Louis abuse Armand's trust, lying to control Armand's actions? When has Lou hobbled Armand's bodily autonomy, and the thing Armand can(not) physically do? When did Lou donate Armand to other people? Or act outside of Armand's boundaries/consent?)

The whole point of IWTV is to emphasize LOUIS' vulnerability, and how it's constantly exploited & abused by people more powerful than he is--from humans in NOLA & Romania/Eastern Europe, to vampires in Paris, and especially Lestat.

Armand knew immediately that Louis & Claudia were lying about Bruce being their Maker, cuz he's THE best vampire with the Mind Gift. He knew EVERYTHING, and told Louis to his face in 2x2 that Louis's a terrible liar who can't hide anything or keep secrets from him--just like the last older more powerful vampire read Louis' thoughts & used them to seduce him; "Come to me, Louis."

Armand & the whole coven were Europeans who'd never even met an American vamp before--but they knew Louis was a pimp from New Orleans with a whole failed sugar plantation--cuz they they read his mind; what Claudia explicitly called "invaded their thoughts." Santiago called them BOTH out in 2x3 (more subtly with Claudia but straight up explicitly with Louis, as someone whose mind they could all read way easier than hers).

It especially confuses me when show fans complain all about pimp!Louis being with Armand on the show; but make no noise about slaveowner!Louis being with Armand in the books? (Or they're against pedo!Marius being with Armand, but make no noise about pedo!Lestat being with Armand? Let alone Daniel (who, unlike Marius & Lestat, is NOT an Old World European vamp from a different time period with different morals/ethics), or any adult attracted to a 17 year old's body--including book!Louis?) People have shipped Loumand for decades, yet it's only once Lou's a pimp (amongst other things....) that people suddenly care about poor innocent Armand being abused by the evil thug jezebel who got Armand's daughter killed and lied to Armand about his Maker and allowed Armand to be tortured & humiliated by the public with his ankles slashed open & buried alive for over a MONTH so he couldn't escape? 🙄😒

The Vampire Armand is only ever beaten TWICE: by Santino & the Children of Satan in the books, and by Daniel on the show. That is IT. NO ONE else gets the jump on Armand, or gets the upper hand over him--he's not even one of the ones Rhoshamandes kidnaps! NO ONE effs with TVA, or effs TVA over--HE'S the boogeyman of the vampires preying on his own kind, not the other way around.

The sheer IRONY of Mr. "I Could Not Prevent It" Armand as a character is understanding cycles of violence.

You're missing the whole point of AR/RJ putting the former sex slave Armand in relationships with a slaveowner (book) or a pimp (show). It's about realizing how a former sex slave (kidnapped & trafficked overseas to be tortured so bad that his PTSD gave him amnesia) became a powerful vampire with THEE strongest Mind/Spell Gift powers, leading entire covens/cults purging ALL fledglings in their territories who resisted--thus perpetuating SYSTEMIC & INSTITUTIONALIZED ABUSE.

Armand used & abused Claudia's naivety & Louis' trust in him, cuz he lulls victims into a false sense of security before the trap springs open--"NO PAIN."

AR put Loumand together NOT to make a point about how "gross" it was that slaveowner!Louis was taking advantage of former sex slave Armand. It's about how effing ironic and SAD it is that Armand (the one who IMO experienced THE WORST horrors as a victim of abuse in all of TVC) was now the ONLY one in a position of power to PREVENT things that happened to him from happening to anyone else--and did NOTHING. Or rather: he made already bad situations even WORSE.

Armand weaponizes his past to destroy other peoples' futures, victimizing & harassing & abusing everyone as the Coven Master of that EFFED UP coven. He CLAIMS he cannot prevent bad things from happening, flashing 🥺 all day--only for us to find out that behind the scenes, this mofo was a master manipulator who gaslit & schemed against his lover Louis ("alright, I sold him out"), tricked & abused his frenemy Lestat, mutilated Claudia's body and hid the evidence (I PRAY that ghost!Claudia reveals that the Frankenstein scene from TVA happened), and psychologically tortured his human/fledgling Daniel.

Armand was originally intended to be the main villain of TVC, all the way up until the 3rd book, when AR softened Armand's edges & gave it to Akasha in QotD, and Rhosh in the PL Trilogy. ALL of AR's vamps are sympathetic villains, not cuz one is morally/ethically "better or worse" than the other--arguments have been made even to understand Rhoshamandes & Akasha's perspectives. YES, Armand had horrible things happen to him--but LOUIS is NEVER the one who does those horrible things to him, nor does he EVER benefit from Armand's past. Armand ALWAYS had the advantage over Louis, pimp or no. STOP overestimating the Maitre stupidness! AMC already told y'all what that was about!

But y'all pointedly isolate every other vamp from culpability & accountability under the thinly-veiled guise of caring so much about the freedom/autonomy of people's bodies, when really it only serves to spread hate & vitriol for Louis. All I'm seeing in this fandom is the "GROSS" inequity of how Louis is treated & talked about, versus everyone else, and it's fishy AF.

[critlore]

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[nalyra-dreaming]

Nalyra, I came into season 2 having mixed feelings in regards to claudia I liked and disliked the character (which I think is very common! In this series with all characters at times) but after season 2 I feel like they sort of damped her character down and softened her? In a way

Don't get me wrong I loved seeing her soft moments with Madeleine and their brief happiness but I do feel like in the books she was at times more cold and calculating.

Also they kept harping on about claudia being unstable (especially in the trial) but that was only shown in season 1 after charlie and was a brief incident. She appears to be waaaay more stable than armand or lestat and yet we had all these talks about her "making it" (louis was more of a concern in that regard if we're being honest)

In a way they made her a martyr of some sorts and I think I missed the ruthlessness and spiteful aspect that was shown in season 1.

How do you feel about the overall portrayal the character had?

I think it felt ... real.

You must not forget, between NOLA and Paris there is a huge reality check for Claudia. (Which continues in Paris, ultimately, but wrt to finding other vampires here.)

Claudia left NOLA with Louis to find other vampires who are not "as bad as Lestat... or him" (Bruce). A gross miscalculation, based in her very limited experience.

And what she found was... nothing. For years and years. For years of that time she did not even talk to Louis. Which was not only because of her anger towards him I think, but also because she was feeling bitter and disappointed.

She thought Lestat had kept them from the others, which, in a way, is true. But she had not anticipated that there were only so few of them... and what kinds of vampires she would find.

And so it seemed only logical to me that, in Paris, they finally, FINALLY found vampires that promised to be what she hoped to find. Clever covens, reveling in what they were, accepting them and promising knowledge.

Jackpot, right?

Such a huge jackpot she dismissed all the red flags (that Louis saw btw).

I get her there, remember she is emotionally matured but still trapped in the hormonal upheaval of her body at all times, which means the "high" was blinding.

And the drop after, when this also turned out to be not what she had expected, must have been devastating.

Claudia in the book was more cold and calculating. She was no teenager. She was a tiny human turned so young she had no concept of being human. Very different to the show Claudia and they factored that into her portrayal, as they should.

Claudia was always set to die in the story, and yes, her death in Paris feels all the more tragic now, because she was so close to actual freedom. So, so close.

And she came back for that dinner because she found peace, love and understanding with Madeleine.

And that makes it all so much more bitter.

[cannibalgenders]

Nothing makes me more angry as a consistently infantilized disabled person under 5 foot (fucking NAMED Claudia) than “minor coded” disk horse but it feels especially gddamn gross about Claudia De Pointe Du Lac. She never had anything of her own she’s an explicitly adult and sexual being capable of consent STOP CALLING MADELEINE A PEDOPHILE TIKOK ILLITERATES

[ca-suffit]

sorry how long this is, but this fandom is pissing me off so much and I need to rant a little before I explode lol.

-- madeleine (nonchalantly) says of sleeping with a literal nazi, "I was inviting a frightened boy to cradle my tits," and then when louis turns her we see this as a pleasant memory, and I'm supposed to believe someone who could take pity on a nazi (even if he "wasn't dedicated to the cause") and remember him fondly isn't going to be racist? so I'm the weird one for finding claudeine to be a gross ship and being exasperated by seeing edits of them flood my dash? and every time I talk about this on ANY platform, I mostly get ignored and the few people who do interact w my posts are denying it and saying she had to do it to survive, as if she didn't also literally say she grew up rich like 30 seconds prior.

-- a decent chunk of the anti lestat crowd insists he participated in the trial as an act of revenge and can't say his name w/o talking about how they hate him (bc his racism + abuse), and these are the same people going apeshit over ben daniels saying that santiago was gay and in love with armand, as if he isn't one of the most antiblack characters we've met on the show bc he was quite literally eager to put on the trial solely bc he hated louis for falling asleep during one of his performances. and don't get me started on his monologue about claudia's ashes. and yet ppl are excitedly eating ben's interview up. 🙄

-- the narrative literally showing us that lestat has changed since the attempted murder (going off script on the trial in defense of louis & claudia, taking accountability for his abuse, staying silent about the fact that he was the one to save louis & letting him leave w armand when we know how terrifying being alone is for lestat, spending decades living in that shack and eating rats to punish himself vs the hedonistic & decadent lifestyle we saw him living in s1) and the anti lestat crowd claiming this is just him being manipulative and are furious that the writers had louis forgive him. like normally I agree that it's in very poor taste to paint an abuser as sympathetic, but the thing about this show is that these characters are immortal and have all the time in the world to change. like this isn't the writers sweeping it under the rug, they're explicitly acknowledging how horrific lestat's behavior was and there are literally canon glimpses showing us that lestat has become a better person (and I'm sure this will be fleshed out more next season as we'll get his pov) and, like, isn't it a good thing to see an abusive character realize the error of their ways and alter their behavior and become better????? like it's fair to not want to see that, but this is the wrong show to be watching if you can't handle seeing abusers change their ways & being forgiven by the people they've hurt (especially since it's pretty much confirmed armand/daniel is going to happen at some point and given I'm sure they'll be circling around each other, I feel confident that louis will eventually forgive armand too)

ur fine, u can rant! I have a lot in my inbox but I try to get to it all eventually in whatever way.

idk how much u wanted me to comment on anything or not, but I'm gonna add comments and u do whatever u want with it.

a) ur never going to have an easy time criticizing a white woman in fandom. it reflects too much of what fandom is usually made up of and ppl will usually tell u it's misogyny to judge these characters if u ever try (most of the time it's not, but that's a convenient excuse to shut down convos).

the show intentionally makes everyone do p questionable shit, especially the white characters. it doesn't tell u how to feel about it, that's up to u. that makes ppl uncomfortable. it goes further too when it is someone like madeleine, who is otherwise seen in positive ways. it's reflective of real life and that's what scares ppl the most. nobody ever fits in a box of only "good" or "bad." a lot of what the book for IWTV asks too is what defines that anyways? and S1 also said "are we the sum of our worst moments?" so it is constantly asking u that and it is for u to decide and reflect on.

b) white, gay stuff is also gonna be popular in fandoms. ben daniels is also gay irl and his husband just died so there's crossover from that to praising his character bcuz ppl feel sympathy for him. I also think ppl detach more from his actions bcuz he's not romantically linked to the characters he's torturing. ppl also just honestly dgaf about antiblackness anyways so for most ppl it's easy to overlook. which is how we get posts like this.

I mean, u can also like whatever characters u like for any reason. some ppl like characters not bcuz they support what they do, but bcuz they're just enjoyable to watch in performance or connection to the plot or whatever. I think examining santiago after what ben said about his performance is something ppl should be able to do, and again it circles back to the stuff I wrote for madeleine. where does ur (general u) discomfort lie and why? as u said, if it's ppl who dislike lestat then it's worth looking at that too, why are the characters different then?

c) there's sort of 2 things happening for this part. the first is that 2x8 did have pacing issues, for whatever reasons. a lot of ppl felt like it flattened the plot and characters for the sake of making lestat look the best (over armand) and rly shoving it in out of nowhere. the second part is what u said about the themes. I've always figured they were going to explore forgiveness and personal growth, but I also know it isn't going to be easy for ppl to follow. hopefully the full seasons coming do a better job of this but for 2x8 there were a lot of reasons ppl felt crazy about the way it was shown to us. I also agree that other characters will have these journeys with each other too. it was just such a sharp turn for S2 to end on highlighting the white character we've otherwise seen as being p horrible and suddenly saying "it's the brown character who rly did the worst!" I don't think they intended to come across like that but it's how it landed for a lot of ppl. it doesn't mean ppl have an issue with the concept of forgiveness and stuff otherwise. we'll have to see how it goes. but ya there's 2 things going on there for this rn.

[psikonauti]

Madeleine Gross

Golden, 2024

Acrylic paint on original photography

[chicinsilk]

Madeleine de Rauch Haute Couture Collection Fall/Winter 1952-53. Joan Whelan wears a large, supple frock coat with a very high collar, double leather buttoning to the top and a rear martingale, camel hair wool.

Madeleine de Rauch Collection Haute Couture Automne/Hiver 1952-53. Joan Whelan porte une grosse redingote souple, à col très montant, double boutonnage de cuir jusqu'en haut et martingale arrière, lainage poil de chameau.

Photo Philippe Pottier

[acesstark]

CALLING IT NOW - iwtv s2 predictions

1. Armand knocks Louis out in that scene where he’s touching his face

2. Claudia and Madeleine get gay this season

3. Hallucination!Lestat taunts Louis for grieving him even though he’s the one who killed him

4. They’re gonna fuck that old man. Multiple times most likely. Definitely Armand, probably Louis.

5. Armand’s little “Lestat Lestat Lestat…” is mid argument after Louis has a problem with him saving Daniels life in SF

6. They’re gonna shave Madeleine’s head. Sorry babes. Ginger down.

7. Loustat reunion in the moss house in NOLA and Lestat’s gonna be just as gross and busted looking as ever

8. Louis thinks Lestat is a hallucination at the trial, at least for a little while.

9. Armand and Lestat don’t actually kiss, Lestat’s just fucking with him for shits and giggles

10. Remember the scene where Louis and Armand kiss in public??? I have an entire theory about that that I’ll link when I post it,

[alookseeblog]

Madeleine Gross

[polkadotmotmot]

Madeleine Gross - Golden, 2024 - Acrylic paint on original photography

[subiysu-chan]

What do the Innocent executioners dream of? As in at night

I think almost all of them are prone to traumatic flashbacks when they try to sleep. Like during the day, their minds would be occupied.

I think Jean-Baptiste barely sleeps at all because of the nightmares he has of killing people. I think when he was younger, he would have nightmares of being murdered or framed by his rivals. The rivalry mentality in executioner and torturer groups would make it very difficult for him to cope with disability, since his new found vulnerability would mean having once again a target on his back...Also, Charles being inexperienced and clumsy, or illegally applying retentum, or that he considered to send him to a school in Toulouse were the prejudice against executioners and their families was much stronger, he would sometimes have nightmares of Charles' mutilated, battered corpse sent to him. He would later, as they gradually enter apprenticeship, have nightmares of his sons sent to him in a box. Also, the time he went to jail for a short while for botching a hanging, he still has dreams about his ex cell-mate, and how later he had to kill/brand him. Also, would sometimes have dreams of Madeleine still peacefully sleeping in his bed, or him having sex with her. On these nights, he'll hug Jeanne extra tight, who'll welcome the affection, not knowing he thinks of another woman. Because of the quasi-sibling like relationship they shared, his relationship with Madeleine is one that could never be replaced, and he'll never love another partner like he did with her. Given how he's presented all over the manga, I don't think he can sincerely love a woman he doesn't consider related to him. The relationship with his mother is quasi-incestuous, and Anne-Marthe is very misogynistic, and he seems to share her values. Also, being a dynastic executioner, I don't think he'll consider courting, marriying and then having children with a woman he considers a sister, aunt or niece to be morally wrong.

For Charles-Henri, he would have it similar, but the Revolution would drive those dreams to straight up hallucinations of the faces of his victims, of blood and gore. As a youngster, he would sometimes have dreams of his father hugging him, or strangling him. Up to age 23, he would sometimes have nightmares about his physical punishments. Sometimes, he'll see Jean de Chartois. Also, him sleeping around in his mid-twenties, and even after getting married, he would sometimes have sexual dreams regarding his wife or mistress(es). Also, I think the "soft compassionate side" of his personality never left, and mixted with his new playboy lifestyle, given how horribly prostitutes and "loose women" were treated, he would sometimes imagine he'll have to sheer or whip his mistresses, or have news that the magistrates had some sick "games" with them. Also, his wife finding out his infedelity is also one. However, he won't have any incestuous fantasies, and would be grossed out by the prospect. He spent too much time with individuals outside his cast and with the church to consider that...

I don't think Soubise/Subyss would sleep well either, his concious tormenting him a bit as he sleeps. Also, he is someone who always needs to be high on something, be it torture or alcohol. Subyss would often have dreams of being tortured himself, perhaps flashbacks prostituting himself to magistrates or doing tasks for them in the "convulsionaire" secret reunions (what they did there was pretty disgusting). Since torturer isn't enough to make a living on it's own, he'll be a corrector either for the Hôpital Général, colledges or for wealthy nobles with bratty sons or daughters (honestly, who ever happens to offer the most money for the job). I think he might sometimes get emotionally attached to those kids, especially as he shows signs of histrionic personality disorder making one believe that relationships are closer than they actually are. He'll also have sexual dreams about Nicolas, sometimes Damien.

Marie-Josephe: I think on top of flashbacks being tortured as a child, would sometimes have dreams of being held and hugged warmly. Marie-Josephe does have an underlying desire for affection and recognition. She seems genuinely hurt when Charles-Henri refused to support her during that La Barre execution, and we see a flashback asking Charles if he found her disgusting. In that part with the Chevalier Alain Bernard, she wonders if he'll change and leave her like Charles did. Also, we see her mocking and angry after her father asked to step aside so that he can finish Lally/Griffith in one stroke and treat his body with the "respect he deserves". Like, knowing her dad had some lingering friendship and respect for the man who raped her, but little to none to her, nor her mom...That must hurt. Again, Marie seems like someone who secretly wants love and approuval, but doesn't allow herself to indulge in that. However, at night, when she's about to sleep, I can very well imagine she'll have dreams of being hugged warmly by Charles, or by Alain...Maybe by her mother. Although, I don't imagine those dreams being pleasant to her, and she'll probably wake up afterwards with her face twisted into a grimace of pain. Thanks to having chosen the path of female executioner, I think Marie, for all her rebelliousness, does have desires and fantasies of acceptance, just that they bring her a lot of emotional pain.