#looking at anti endos right now

[sysmedsaresexist]

Hot Take

You can go too far in either direction of system accountability

"Don't blame them, blame me alone, I did this, not them," is equally anti recovery and just as damaging as "that was my alter, not me"

It's still not taking accountability, just disguised as overly taking accountability, and an unhealthy abuse of self blame as a coping mechanism to feel in control of situation, without any real ownership over the results

It's a way for an alter to shrug their shoulders and say, "well, I did what I could, it's actually the other person's fault that they don't understand we're not the same people," and shift the blame back onto the people who were hurt by said alters actions (aka blaming the victim for being hurt, pretty sure there's a term for that, hm)

It's still a shield for an alter to do what they want without any tangible repercussions, and cement them firmly in the "not me" part of dissociation

You know, the opposite of integration, the thing required for functional multiplicity

But I don't think most of us are ready for that conversation

[lilac-set]

Good post but part of it rubbed me the wrong way so i wanna clarify one thing

Its still worth it if it is worth it to you, and youre very brave for doing what you know is best for you despite all the hardship

Its also ok and youre still worth it even if all the pain of healing isnt worth it to you, and youre very brave for doing what you know is best for you despite all the hardship

Its ok and you deserve support no matter what path you choose to take. Youre worth it

[snowglobe-system]

Hi! Feel no pressure to answer, but I have a few questions (regarding DID)

So I'm aware of what an endo system is, but I'm a bit confused on why it would be considered valid since the condition is directly caused by trauma, which is the thing that endos lack. Could you please explain your perspective on it? And maybe your perspective before you became pro-endo?

Hey! I've been sitting on this ask for a few days now. I do want to start out by thanking you for reaching out to me and asking about my perspective. Please note that you are not obligated to agree with me, or to change your mind just from my answer to your questions. I like having you as a mutual, and I will continue to do so regardless of your syscourse stance.

I'm going to grab a term that some of my mutuals in the DID community have used, and say I'm really more pro syscourse conversation than I am pro endo- pro endo is just the easiest way to communicate my basic stances.

I think the most important thing to understand here is that a lot of the time, the "are endos real" debate suffers from both sides fundamentally misunderstanding what the other's stance actually is. While there is a small subsection of the endo community claiming that DID isn't trauma based- which I vehemently disagree with, DID is absolutely trauma based, and that's backed by all of the research- that's not the majority.

Most endogenic systems are not claiming to have DID. They are claiming to experience themselves as more than one. I am by no means an expert on this, but I know that it is a very western-centric view to assume that everyone subscribes to being one singular self. If you want to learn more about non-western views on the self and on plurality, I would recommend looking at @system-of-a-feather's blog. They make great posts on the subject!

And- here's a real kicker- not everyone with a CDD- CDD standing for complex dissociative disorders and including the likes of DID, OSDD, P-DID, UDD, etc- actually identifies as plural. Not everyone with even DID identifies as plural. So if someone with a CDD can identify as one, what's stopping someone who doesn't have a CDD from identifying as more than one? This post puts it pretty well, so I'm just going to link it here! And if you're looking for scientific backing on endo systems? Dr Colin Ross, one of the very well known DID researchers, believes in non-traumagenic self states.

Basically, I'm choosing to believe people when they talk about their subjective personal experiences.

Now you did also ask about my anti-endo days and I will also gladly talk about those. I will admit, I was the worst kind of anti-endo. I was the type of person who would throw even other CDD systems under the bus as fakers because I wanted to seem more legitimate. Everyone who didn't present the "right" way was a faker. And endos, my goodness. They were the worst fakers of them all.

It was an extremely reactive position to take. I was suffering from my plurality, therefore everyone who wasn't had to be faking. They were making a mockery out of me! At least, that's how I perceived it.

And then I started interacting with endos, and pro endos. I realized that they were also real people, not just an abstract concept to make fun of to make myself look more legitimate. And I started reading blogs that had the rawest, realest content about CDDs that I'd come across thus far... and they were pro endo. And the arguments as to why were really good.

Somewhere along the way, I realized that the things that were leading me to being anti endo were the same things that made me into a transmed when in the 2010s. I believed that people had to meet a minimum quota of suffering to be real. In a way, I was defining people by it. And ultimately, if they are lying? It costs me nothing to believe them. I'd rather believe some liars than not believe people who are telling the truth. I've had enough experience with people not believing me. It sucks. I didn't want to keep doing that to others.

That's about the end of this yap session! Seriously, thanks again for asking, I really enjoyed writing this post. I hope I answered in a way that makes sense to you!

[luminary-syscourse]

(The following is a screenshot, not the actual post)

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Now, time for my post)

Listen, if you're so terrified of endos that you need to be pulled away when you see a post that's made by one or someone who supports them, you need to get off of tumblr and get therapy.

I don't even mean that to be rude, like, seriously, you should consider therapy.

If someone simply existing triggers you that badly, you need professional help.

You're right. You shouldn't be terrified to read posts. That's not normal. But it's not the endos fault ether.

Also, quite frankly, posting in the plurality or system tags isn't "infiltration" as those tags are for all who are plural or systems. Hell, even posting in the traumagenic tags isn't infiltration if they're a pro-endo traumagenic system or mixed origins like we are.

I promise you that no endos are sitting there calling traumagenic systems losers. Anti-endos? maybe, but not all traumagenic systems, I mean, you do know that there's pro-endo traumagenics, right?

Listen, seriously, if you have to have an alter sit over your shoulder while on an app to make sure you don't get triggered, that's an issue. You shouldn't be on this app at all if that's the case. Stuff like that is the point where getting on social media can become a form of self harm.

I'm not trying to like, invalidate your issues OP, but if you're looking for lighthearted content related to systems, you are probably going to find mostly pro-endo content, as from my experience, they post positivity a lot more. If you try looking at DID or OSDD specific content, you might have better luck, considering those are the actual disorders.

Endos do not intentionally hurt anyone.

They're not out for you just by existing, and quite frankly, most people aren't hurt by others just existing.

The fact that you are is the exception, not the rule, and is a sign that you need some serious help.

Out of respect for the OP, I'm not responding directly to their post, nor am I going to share their username.

However, I saw this, and I wanted to say something.

[sophieinwonderland]

Do you ever feel worn down by all the hate sysmeds perpetuate? I tend to have a problem with seeing the world as rather dystopian because of all the systemic badness in our society that seems to have no end in sight.

Sysmeds have such a chokehold on the discussion and pluralphobic singlets seem to be more plentiful than ones that aren't.

I know we're on the right side of history, I mean look a how transmedicalism was dismantled. (Sysmeds can whine all they want. There are similarities to trans issues and system issues when it comes to how sysmeds handle the discussion. This is said by a trans system. 😘😜)

Anyways, it just feels like there's no light at the end of the tunnel to turn the tides. Anywas, just some random thoughts. Thank you for reading.

Sometimes. But I don't think the dystopian view of society is fair. I mean, yes, things aren't ideal. But they generally are trending towards acceptance.

In 1977, Only 44% of people thought lesbian and gay people should be allowed to be hired as doctors. By 2019, this number rose to 91%!

Only 27% said they should be elementary school teachers.

Now that's 81%.

Only 14% said they should be allowed to adopt children compared to 77% saying they shouldn't.

Now that number is 75% to 23%

Progress happens slowly, and I'll admit that being on the right side of history is a small consolation to the people living through history.

But... I really do think we're going to be seeing progress for plurality snowballing.

As for the anti-endos... you look at the anti-endo venting blogs and the like, and you can see the seams starting to tear. You can see the anxiety in anti-endos at having mutuals turn to pro-endos. Or having their own therapists supporting endogenic systems.

When I first got to this website, the anti-endos felt in control. They had built up these powerful convictions. Their stranglehold over the community felt so strong.

Many of those have become pro-endo or at least neutral.

And now... these younger anti-endos here feel scared and desperate.

They complain that their servers are kicking them, about losing friends, about losing their "safe spaces." They've had to make multiple "safe space" blogs to house their hate because their bigotry isn't being accepted anywhere else.

I saw an undiagnosed anti-endo not too long ago complaining that their own older sibling, who was a diagnosed DID system, was pro-endo. And they whined to the vent blog anonymously that they didn't think they could "educate" their sibling on why endos are supposedly bad.

On top of all of that is the refusal to actually engage with the other side. While we're dropping sources left and right, they're hiding behind the block button every time someone presents them facts that contradict their worldview.

Anti-endos aren't going to admit it, but the sense I get from their community, at least on this site, is one that's desperately huddling together and clinging to their beliefs and hate while the rest of the world moves past them more and more each and every day.

We still have a long way to go.

But progress is happening constantly and our future is plural!

[yourpeepysucksdotorg]

Looking back on my syscourse days with the wisdom of age, I feel as if I can pinpoint a single psychological concept that explains why syscourse is so prevalent to begin with, and why it’s so toxic and inescapable; group polarization. Basically, people are more likely to come to extreme conclusions or make risky decisions when in a group with those sharing the same ideologies, even though most members of the group will have the same core beliefs that aren’t nearly as radical.

In syscourse, this most often occurs when people debate the validity of endogenic systems. It also makes it impossible to have a good-faith discussion on the matter.

I’m not endo-neutral, and while my thoughts on the matter can be found elsewhere on my blog, I’ll remain neutral for the sake of this post making it to as many people as possible, because I genuinely believe so much fighting could be stopped if we just recognized the unhealthy patterns we’ve fallen into. Disordered systems who are anti-endo seem to blame endogenic systems for a lot of things, and while I’m not endogenic, I can pretty accurately guess that having a bunch of strangers tell you that you make their lives worse by expressing your identity makes you feel shitty. This keeps the two communities separated outside of verbal spats, and of course, after these spats, members of both communities will want support. Once again, I can’t speak from the endogenic perspective. But I know that anti-endos will continue to perpetuate that endos are bad, that you didn’t do anything wrong, that they’re just dumb and stupid. Which, I can assume this keeps endogenic systems in constant defense mode, as they constantly have to check which system blogs or servers are or aren’t okay to interact with, out of fear of being attacked by other systems, or worse, becoming some kind of lolcow for singlets.

When both sides feel like they’re being attacked, no productive discussion can be had. Once again, I do have my own opinions on the matter, but right now, I’m really just advocating for all systems to treat each other like living beings. If someone is being terrible to you, there’s no pressure to fight back. Just block them. While that one person might be an asshole, there are so many more people who care about you, support you, and want you to exist more than you even know. This is a saying as old as time, but don’t feed the trolls. Don’t aggressively retaliate, because you’re just giving them more material to bend to their will. And if you’re the one perpetuating assholery, just stop.

Maybe I’m just being an optimist, but I believe that so much syscourse could become irrelevant if we realized that the world isn’t black and white, and there aren’t good and evil systems. We’re all in this together, singlets are still gonna treat us like we’re nuts. We need to stand united rather than push each other further and further away.

[justanothersyscourse]

I think this blog is blocked by fewer people that have heard the rumors and lies going around. I hope you'll read this. There are three sides to every story-- yours, theirs, and the truth.

I deserve to get my side out there so people can make informed decisions about who to follow or block, or whatever it is you need to do. It's okay not to support me, but do it for the right reasons.

I also run sysmedsaresexist, and I'm currently being accused of harassing a minor and sending random ass asks left, right and center.

Listen, if you got an ask where the person didn't say, "this is SAS," it's not from me. I HATE asks. On the rare occasion that I send them, I always tell people who I am. I am well aware that I'm a controversial figure. I want people to know who they're interacting with when I talk to them. I am old. It's important that I'm honest with the people I interact with. A lot of people really stepped up to support me, but I would like people to stop. Unfortunately, it's doing more harm than good.

With every one of these messages people send in support of me, the rumors get worse.

I want to defend myself, but I don't know how.

Send a vent to a vent blog that just actively lied about me? They won't post it. (They didn't, I just checked)

So I'll post it myself. You can make your own decision. All posts I've made on the topic are linked here (it's 5, compared to the DOZENS AEV has posted)

This will be my last post on the topic, and I hope that the people spreading these rumors will leave me alone. You've done more damage and harm to me than you know, and without any remorse or apology.

Ask sent to @anti-endo-haven :

I'm SAS and I'm so hurt.

I have not sent ANY anons to AEV, at all, at any point. I have not ASKED anyone to help me in this,

I made 5 posts. They have made about 50 at this point, all cruel.

The first was to AEV on their first post, which was NOT as rude as people say. I said, look webmd and mayo clinic isn't going to hold up to some of the articles that endos are throwing at us. Try some of these. I said, look, you're going to get really tired of hearing the same endo arguments. Here's some points you can throw back at them.

NOT TO MENTION THE MISINFORMATION IN THE POST. Dissociation is only trauma based? Incorrect. Maybe you should reconsider whether you're ready to be in these conversations.

That response was hidden.

The second post, I was correcting an endo that DID wasn't a trauma disorder. I tagged AEV and said, "see, you can be nice about corrections, and these are the kind of sources you should use."

I was blocked.

THIS IS WHEN I CHANGED LABELS. I was so disappointed in the community that I said fuck that, that's not what I want to be, I don't support this behavior. That's another person that AEV turned pro endo. Good job.

Then I saw the anon saying I was an endo. I used my other blog to POLITELY say, "This isn't true, please stop posting about me like this." This post is still on JAS, I didn't delete it like people are claiming

The fourth post was me making my own public post saying, "this child is throwing a tantrum over corrections. Now l'm pissed and I have to make my own public post so people don't believe those lies." This was the first rude post. I called AEV a blemish, and here's why.

I just made a MASSIVE post about dissociation that is actively being spread within the endo community now. All because I changed my label. I don't care if you all want to block me, but don't pretend that you're all doing anything to help by making bad resources for an audience that already believes the same stuff (all these new antis). Now all the new ones are spreading the same bad sources that don't hold up, and we all (yes, you, me, them, the next CDD system in line) look bad for it.

AEV couldn't provide a single source that said DID WAS trauma based, only "usually" trauma based. AEV actually made antis TURN PRO ENDO, because they used so many sources that said "usually". I offered him sources that said it WAS trauma based.

I'm not kidding, you can find the people that changed sides on sophieinwonderland's blog. This is what happened. I don't need to be polite as pie to people inadvertently harming the CDD community, but I certainly wasn't rude about it

My final post, the fifth post, on the subject was the sad one. "My main was leaked." There are people that stalk my blogs. They send me threats and long asks about the things they'd do to me if they found me. When sophie first came to tumblr, I'd get asks about what people wanted ghost to do to me. In the past, every time a new doxxer comes out of their gross hole, I start getting doxxing threats. l've had people get close to my area.

My main being released means those people are one step closer to actually finding me. It means I'm now getting these kinds of messages in my only safe space.

And the anon who sent my main admitted it was done maliciously. We had a falling out like two years ago, because their asks were getting creepy. When I APOLOGIZED TO THEM for ever hurting them because of my own avoidance issues, and told them that on this post, their response was, "well I enjoyed sending them so fuck you." If I ever find that post deleted, I've got a screenshot. You were NOT a minor at the time, you're an adult.

... Nice, really mature. You're definitely safe for minors.

Hey, also, minors, if an adult you just met online calls you "my kiddo", don't respond with an ovo face. Run.

Adults, if you call a minor your kiddo and they're like, owo really, I'm your kiddo? Fucking run.

Anyways.

I haven't said anything since. What can say. My main is out and I'm getting threats on it. Currently. Not "in the future," like the person said. It's happening NOW.

What do all you people want from me? I AM trying to leave you all alone. Stop saying such terrible things about me, godDAMN. I am not harassing minors. I don't want to harass anyone.

WHAT DID I ACTUALLY DO WRONG? I don't understand.

You're not the good guys you think you all are.

Not anymore.

I don't know that you ever were.

[thecircularsystem]

I cannot recommend enough the abandonment of syscourse labels.

In system spaces, it often feels necessary to label oneself to be a certain syscourse stance. Pro-endo, anti-endo — I even said and popularized, “coined,” endo-neutral (I was the first to say it that I saw, at the very least). I endorsed and wore “syscourse-unaligned” as a badge.

But the core of all of these are that they are non-nuanced labels that could mean such varied things that… at this rate, they’re largely simply virtue signaling. After all, labeling yourself as anti or pro allows all syscoursers to immediately be able to make a judgement call on the “type of person you are” — are you The Good Guy or The Bad Guy?

Endo-neutrals had a difficult path as well, because the point of it was originally to be that you didn’t have an opinion, or had mixed feelings about the tumblr community of pro-endos — and now it’s spiraled into something else entirely.

Syscourse unaligned also branched out; I’ve seen apathetic used a lot too, and I’m certain people have found fault with that too.

It seems that, for many in these spaces, if you aren’t labeling yourself as explicitly for something, then clearly, you’re against it. And to some degree, I get it with the label endo-neutral. I worded it that way due to the discourse stances being centered on endogenic systemhood.

And that, ultimately, shows the problem with the labels to me. I am not an endogenic system; it is not my place to even have an opinion on that. I do, but I would much rather focus my blog around… me? Not what they’re doing over there. I only want to discuss it in regards to how it affects CDDs, and my own recovery; and THAT is the syscourse I like.

You do not need to have your syscourse label. You don’t need to share one publicly, or even waste the time thinking of what label might fit you best. If you find solace in the label, please, use one! But never feel you must.

Anyone who says you must have a label is trying to force you to debate with them, or else is trying to assess your safety for their wellbeing.

You do not owe people debates. You can just ignore.

If someone feels unsafe, it is their job to moderate themselves.

There are ways to show your safety and care and kindness without adding an arbitrary label onto your blog that could mean anything at this point.

These communities — anti, pro, neutral — all of syscourse has harmed people. The communities have distinct problems, and shared problems.

Don’t feel like you must participate, and don’t let people force you to. Step back if you’re already entrenched and take a good look at yourself.

Is this the person you want to be right now?

[brokenorbornthatway]

We lost a couple followers after the last post we reblogged, so I figured now is a good time to go over some of our stances so you can know if we're not your cup of tea.

We are profiction, proship, anti harassment ,and anti censorship. No exceptions.

Fiction is an endless playground with no rules, do literally whatever you want for whatever reason you want.

We are pro kink and anti kink shaming. Honestly this is pretty much the same as being profiction/proship. Kink is fantasy. So long as all parties are able to and do consent, kinks are morally neutral.

We are pro para, and to be precise, pro big 3 having the right to exist without being dehumanized/demonized. To be more precise, we wholeheartedly support non offending/anti contact pedophiles. There is nothing wrong with having an attraction. Thought crimes do not exist. We support paraphiles right to exist and find community, support, and healthy ways to embrace themselves without causing harm to themselves or others.

We do not believe there is ever a circumstance in which it becomes acceptable to strip someone of their human rights. We have had more than our fair share of violent fantasies towards people who have wronged us or those we love and people who have caused large scale harm. Believe me, we get the urge to say "but this type of person deserves to be systemically punished". It's pretty easy to buy into. It's never the right answer though. Allowing any one group or type of person or whatever to be dehumanized, means that anyone can be, which leads right back to the systems of oppression we live in now. No one deserves to be treated as less than human.

We are endo supportive and against fake claiming. We don't think it's right to assume that you know better than people what's going on in their own brains. Even if you did think someone is "faking", you don't know them well enough, nor are you educated enough, nor are you in the position (the position being "being their therapist") to tell them they're faking and risk being wrong and causing someone serious mental distress.

We are anti punitive justice and pro restorative justice. We are a prison abolitionist. Prison is never an acceptable answer for "what to do when harm is done?"

We are in favor of youthlib, and still learning about this topic. Children are people and are often treated as less than that. Children are fully autonomous beings and we are in favor of children's rights. Kids deserve to have a say in their lives and the issues that affect them.

We are against body shaming in all instances, including jokes about penis size and jokes about how people with bad opinions look.

We are pro all good faith identities. We really do not understand radqueer or transID things, but as long as you aren't causing harm, we support you.

We are pro self diagnoses. Diagnoses is a privilege that is unavailable to many and is a thing that is unsafe to some. I don't believe in armchair diagnosing others. Unless you're their doctor, you don't have the qualifications to diagnose them. However, I absolutely believe everyone is the expert on themselves, and with the information on whatever the condition on question is, most people can at least make a pretty good educated guess on what's going on with themselves.

We are against equating normal with good.

We are anti fascist and anti colonization.

We love and support Jewish people.

We believe in second chances. People can learn to do better and everyone deserves that chance. We believe in rehabilitation. To be human is to fuck up. It's a lot easier to admit your fuck ups and learn better when you see other people doing the same and being accepted.

We think violence is a key part of human nature and that it is something that needs to be fully embraced so that there are ample options to act out violent urges without causing harm that are easily accessible without fear of being shamed. There are already tons of options to for this in existence, but the stigma towards openly enjoying and wanting violence is huge barrier. Rather than meeting someone who says they're having violent urges with "count to ten, do deep breaths, GET HELP," we could meet them with "ok, that's totally human and normal. We've got video games, rage rooms, etc, where you can work through those violent urges in a healthy way." I don't know about everyone, but for us, learning that throwing soft things against the wall while rage screaming was an acceptable and safe way to manage anger and the urge to throw shit was a huge relief. Humanity is brutal, so in order to heal and build something better, I think safe ways to express that brutality and openness regarding it are vital.

Nothing really exists in terms of absolutes. This one is one that's hard for us due to being prone to black and white, all or nothing thinking. Everything falls in shades of grey. There is nuance in everything.

This one is basically a repeat, but it's important to us: every human life has intrinsic value that can not be taken away, no matter how "bad" they are or how much wrong they've done. Everyone deserves to be treated like a human, no matter what. If human rights don't apply to everyone, then they aren't human rights, they're "good people rights", and that should scare you.

That's all I can think of right now. Be aware that this is a vent blog. We might vent or rant about any of the above topics at length. If any of these things are not for you, we kindly invite you to leave.

[sysmedsaresexist]

im a system trying to learn more about endos.

so far in syscourse ive only seen proof of cdds being traumagenic but they dont disprove non-cdd plurality, so what sources are there that have evidence of endogenic systems, if you have any?

Right now? There isn't any hard evidence that would satisfy anti endos. There's TONS of papers and articles talking about the recent emergence of endogenic systems, but they're mostly interview based. I debunked a lot of them when I was still anti. Small sample sizes, personal bias about dysfunction levels, all interviews. Those won't stand for those who are skeptical.

Now that I've calmed my gender neutral tits, though, I can look at where all this research is heading, and I can look back and find all the different terms that have been used to describe this same phenomenon. Those terms don't fall under psychology, they appear in journals about consciousness and self and philosophy, and they go all the way back to the 1800s, developing right alongside theories on hysteria and split personality, and the TOSD.

I don't need to do the work for you (/nm), just Google multiple self theory and fall down the rabbit hole. Trust me. One Google search, move at your own pace. It'll mean more when you find all this yourself and make the journey on your own. It was way more effective when I went alone.

That said, I'm not heartless.

The most promising research coming out is the tulpa studies.

Tanya Luhrmann and Michael Lifshitz are incredible, but it's Luhrmann who really stole my heart. She has a long list of work on religious communication with God and "others", and was a huge part of putting tulpas, and several other different voice hearing, religious communities into the fmri scanners to see what's going on. The reddit AMA is being passed around now, and it's largely being ignored by antis, without understanding what it was.

The tulpa studies began... shit, 5 years ago? Covid put a hold on the project, but it's back up and running and they're working on the final paper. The AMA was a chance for people to ask questions to the lead researchers about the project, including whether they found anything.

And they did.

The brains of tulpamancers and other practitioners lit up in unexpected areas and outside of conscious control (very basic overview).

Luhrmann also wrote about how this kind of research can help other voice hearers, and could potentially point to some new therapy opportunities for those struggling.

No, Luhrmann and Lifshitz are not dissociative specialists. Endogenic systems have screamed for decades about how they don't have CDDs and we just refuse to listen. This research is occurring in other areas and specialities. They don't need to be dissociative specialists to work fmri machines and see there's something happening.

My hope is that once the final results are published, we'll see some very quick movements comparing CDDs and endogenic systems. We're not there yet, but I think we'll actually have firm answers within the next couple years.

And after looking into other areas of research, and seeing the potential positives, and that they DID see some unexpected things on the scans...

Not to mention that I've spoken with Colin Ross, THE dissociative expert, who in the 1980s, wrote about "endogenous multiplicity," a subsection of those with MPD that had no trauma history, no dysfunction, no amnesia, etc, and he still stands by that to this very day. I've spoken with several other experts. Go look at Jamie Marich on Twitter and see all her colleagues in the notes.

Anti endo is a dying stance.

Learn nuance while you can (CDDs and endogenic plurality are different, occasionally overlapping), and jump ship before it's too late to take the harm back.

Happy googling and good luck!

[silhouette-system]

Hello and Welcome to our system, the Silhouettes from the TV! We’re a low alter system, though we do believe there are more fragments in the back lol

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My name is Ayrton, and I’m the host of the system! I use he/him/himself, it/its/itself, spir/spiri/spiriself, and ana/logue/analogueself pronouns. I’m asexual and panromantic. I’m a non religious angelkin, and I’m looking for a deitykin, angelkin, or godkin of some type to worship. I’m also a liminalkin; Liminal Angel of Forgotten Whispers is my ‘oFfIcIaL’ title. Emoji: 🏎️ or 🪽 My picrews below:

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My name is Wanderer and I’m the co-host (?) of the system. My pronouns are he/they/it/retro and my gender is no. I’m aroace, sex repulsed. I’m a German Shepherd kin, specifically a military K-9 dog. I like the Arctic Monkeys, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Radiohead, and other bands like that. Please do not speak to me about any type of sexual content or NSFW. This is my sign off emoji: 🖤

~~~~~~~ Hi!! My name is Sasha, and I’m really happy to meet y(‘all)ou! I use she/her pronouns, and I’m transfem! I’m bisexual :) I’m a faerie (NOT a fairy), and I love magic and flowers and the forest! I’ll use this emoji to sign off: 🦌! Ayrton made me some picrews, which I’ll put right down there! 👇

~~~~~~~ Do I have to do this…? Yes. Now do it. Fine.

*sigh* Hey, mate. My name is Ghost, I’m a fictive from CoD. Believe me, none of us are happy about it either. He/him, cis, gay. I’m basically here to make sure Ayrton takes care of the body. Do not talk to me about my canon past and/or current events. I do relate to my source. I don’t want to talk to Ghost fictives, but I’m fine with any other CoD fictives. Sign off will be 🌑. Here are the Picrews Ayrton and Wanderer made me do:

~~~~~~~

other alters: K, she/he/they. Aroace. Bird therian Sign off: 🖋️.

Ari, she/he, unlabelled. ADHD holder, probably a little. Sign off: ✨

~~~~~~~

Other info:

We’re learning German, and would love some tips!

Collectively likes the Lumineers!

we play saxophone!! 🎷🎷🎷

dni: anti-endos, radqueers, TERFs, p3dos, zoos (zo0philia, not zooanthropes. On that note, lycanthropes and therians/otherkins whose identity is from their delusions are welcome as well!) those interested in arguing, anti-furries/therians, etc. We retain the right to block as needed!

random user boxes!

friends!!!! @bored-dromaeosaur @tameable50 @maryland-officially @furbyobsessedpup

[orange-orchard-system]

Got a hate ask on my other blog (funnier-as-a-system) today. I'm not gonna respond to it directly, but I'm gonna go over it fully just as an example of why I don't take anti-endos or sysmeds seriously and find them to be just bullying assholes who don't know what they're talking about. Apologies for the rare discourse post, but I felt it would be useful to have a personal example I can point to if I ever get any more asks than I already have about why I block anti-endos and sysmeds and don't want them on my blogs.

[ID: A screenshot of an anonymous ask, which reads: ""Systems" aren't real. Please stop being ableist against people with DID and our struggles. Pretending to be one of us while simultaneously mocking us makes you look like a piece of shit. Also, DID isn't fucking funny, you're just cruel and ableist. Go see a psychiatrist, get your personality disorders and Munchausens taken care of, and stop pretending to have DID when you don't. We don't need you, our community is better off without teenagers faking DID as a meme. To be honest, I wish you and literally everyone like you were more likely to kill yourself as someone with a real mental illness, because you don't deserve to be alive if this is what you're doing with your life. You're just a delusional bully and neo-nazi" ./ end ID]

Starting from the top, apparently anyone with DID who's ever described themselves as a system is faking now. Nevermind that it's been a term in psychology and the community for decades now! All systems are fake!

I have DID. I've said as much many times. Not that I think this person would consider this a counterargument, but I feel it deserves restating considering a fair amount of my posts are specifically about my DID and managing the symptoms of it.

If I want to find humor in my own disorder, I'm going to. I'm not going to resign myself to misery and self-hate just to please some randos on the Internet. I crawled my way out of the pit of self-hate and am not just gonna jump in there again just to avoid a couple asks and assholes. And I'd make a point here about systems that don't come from trauma or aren't disordered, but what's the point of that when they think literally all systems are fake?

Ohoho! Disableism towards other mental disorders! Isn't the irony sweet?

Not to toot my own horn, but I just love the lack of awareness when it comes to "we don't need you." No, I guess you don't need me... but you'll be going without the work I've done both online and offline to teach people about dissociation and plurality. Not to mention the terms I've coined that make people feel seen, the experiences I've talked about that make people feel less alone, the building of spaces to let others talk about their own problems and experiences, and the general promotion I've done of plural representation in media. No, you don't need me, but I've been doing work to assist the DID and wider plural communities for years now. And what have you been doing? Sending hate asks to people with DID for being too happy?

I'm an adult. I've mentioned before that I go to university and have a job. Seems like even online, I can't escape the assumption that I'm a teenager, smh. Also, I'm much more worried about the teenagers you might be sending this to than any kind of unquantifiable harm a couple teenagers faking DID could do, considering how clearly you wish to do harm with your words. Especially considering the next few sentences...

Oh, so we're just moving onto blatant suicide baiting and admitting you want systems to die. Got it. Totally not a bigot, right.

Wait... "Real mental illnesses"? Didn't you just accuse me of having several earlier? Or do personality disorders and Munchausen Syndrome not count? (Also, do they think being suicidal is a requirement to be mentally ill? They know not all disorders or presentations of disorders involve suicidality, right?)

Well, you got the delusional part right (which, side note, do you think it's impossible for people to have both DID and psychosis? Big yikes even if no, but that's what these asks always seem to imply), but I think this post might be the closest anyone can call "bullying", considering I'm not giving you an opportunity to respond as I tear down your argument. But maybe the definition of peer abuse changed to *checks notes* running a blog talking about plurality in a positive manner since I last checked.

These people do know what a Neo-Nazi is, right? They know what a Nazi is? Because it feels like people just use it as a stand-in for "general asshole" when it means a specific sort of ideology and bigotry. Ironic that they'd be so pissed about "mockery" and treating serious topics "as a meme", but then they go and misuse a term for a very dangerous kind of ideology and person.

Alright, I think I got that out of my system. Please be careful out there, guys! It feels like the number of hate asks I've seen people get has been going up. I'm in a stable enough place to make a demonstration out of this, but don't push yourself to have a snappy comeback or write essays responding to these assholes if you don't think you're up for it. Hell, I rarely write things like this myself, I just chose this ask to respond to because it was such a clear example of how hypocritical and foolish this particular brand of assholes is that I couldn't pass up the opportunity to break it down.

[i-am-a-multiple-choice-question]

INTRO !!

WELCOME TO THE WICKED CLOWNZ COLLECTIVE !! :3

BOUNDRIES

:33 < HIIII !! MY NAME IS NEPETA !! BUT YOU CAN ALSO CALL ME "NEP" !! I AM APART OF THE WICKED CLOWNS COLLECTIVE !! I RECENTLY DISCOVERED WE'RE PLURAL BY FINDING THE CREATORS PLURAL BLOG :3 IDIDNT REALISE I WAS ACTUALLY PLURAL :P

:33 < MY PRONOUNS ARE THEY/IT/MEOW/PAW/MEW/CLAW/CAT/FLUFF/SCRATCH/NEP/NEPETA/NEPETASELF !! YOU CAN ALSO THROW IN A "SHE" SOMETIMES IF IM COMFORTABLE !! IM TRANSFEM, NYANBINARY, AND CATGENDER !! I DONT LABEL MY SEXUALITY, BUT I AM QUEER !! I ALSO USE 1PP PRONOUNS WHICH ARE MEW/MEOW AND OCCASIONALLY NEP/NEPETA !!

:33 < I AM A FICTIVE/FICTIONKIN (I USE BOTH TERMS) OF NEPETA FROM HOMESTUCK !! IF YOU ARE A DOUBLE, PLEASE DNII !! THIS IDENTITY IS VERY IMPORTANT TO MEOW AND MEOW IS NOT COMFORTABLE INTERACTING WITH "OTHER MES" !! ALSO, IM A THERIAN !! I AM A CAT AMBITHERIAN QUESTIONING PUP AMBITHERIAN, GOLDEN RETRIEVER THERIAN AND PITBULL THERIAN !! :3c

:33 < I AM DATING TEREZI, WHO IS ANOTHER SYSTEM MEMBER !! PLEASE DNI IF YOU SELFSHIP WITH HER OR ME !! I AM NOT LOOKING TO DATE ANYONE ELSE !! >:/ ME AND TEREZI ARE MATESPRITES, BUT IM CURRENTLY LOOKING FOR MY EQUIUS MEOWRAIL !!

:33 < MEW IS ALSO A PETRE AND AGERE !! MY AGE RANGE IS FURROM 5-8 (BUT POSSIBLY CAN CHANGE :3c) AND I PETRE TO A SMALL PUP/KITTEN ! :3

:33 < I TYPE IN ALL CAPS, AND WITH A ":33 <" AT THE BEGINNING OF MY SENTENCES !! I USED TO DO A LOT OF CAT PURRNS, BUT NOT SO OFTEN NOW !! I ALSO SOMETIMEZ REPLACE THE "S" WITH A "Z"

:33 < I AM JUST VERY VERY SILLY, PURRL33SE BE NICE TO ME !! :33 READ THE IMPORTANT STUFFZ BELOWZ !!!!

DNI

YOU ARE RACIST/SEXIST/HOMOPHOBIC/TRANSPHOBIC ECT BASIC STUFFZ

YOU POST SWEARS/SLURS/WORDS THAT TRIGGER ME UNBLURRED (CHECK BOTTOM FOR TRIGGER TAG)

YOU GET MAD AT ME FOR USING MY TQ/TRY MAKE ME NOT USE IT, OR YOU TRY SEPARATING ME FURROM MY SOURCE

YOU ARE ANTI PLURALS/DONT BELIEVE IN THEM !!

YOU ARE AGAINST PETRE/AGERE/ALTERHUMANS/XENOS/HARMLESS IDENTITIES SILLY !!!!

YOU SHIP ILLEGAL RELATIONSHIPS !! PURROSHIPURR

AGGRESSIVE ANTI ENDOS. MY HOST MAY NOT GET INTO SYSCOURSE, BUT ME PURRSONYALLY, I AM NEUTRAL LEANING TO PRO ENDO. IF THE HOST IS FURRENDS WITH ANTI ENDOS, MEOW DONT CARE BUT MY BOUNDARIES ARE: AGGRESSIVE ANTI ENDOS PLEASE DNI. NEUTRALZ, PROS, ENDOS AND RESPECTFUL ANTIZ CANT INTERACTZ. ALSO WE MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME OPINION, BECAUSE WE ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE

SELFSHIPPERS/DOUBLES OF ME OR TEREZI

PEOPLE WHO ARENT NORMAL ABOUT FICTIVES/FACTIVES :P

REALITY CHECKERSSSS !!!! I HATE YOUUUU !!!!

WHATEVER THE DNI SAYS ON MY HOST'S BLOG @aftonsparv-bugzz BECAUSE I AGR33 WITH ALL OF IT

HOMESTUCK HATERZ

TRIGGER TAG FOR THE COLLECTIVE IS "tag for the wicked clownz" TRIGGER TAGS FOR THE CREATOR ARE "tesco don't look" AND "tagging for clown"

🟥⬛🟧⬛🟨⬛🟩⬛🟦⬛🟪⬛🟦⬛🟩⬛🟨⬛🟧

PLEASE INTERACT !!

ALTERHUMANS

CRINGE KIDZ

SCENE KIDZ

(ACTUALLY) DELUSIONAL PEOPLE AND SCHIZOSPECS !!

FICTIVES/FICTKINS

SOURCEMATES !!

AGE/PETRES

NICE PEOPLEZ !!

FURRIEZ !!

PLURALZ !!

WARRIOR CATZ FANZ AND INVADER ZIM FANZ !! I WANT TO GET IN THOSE FANDOMZ !!

HOMESTUCKZ

ECT !!

BYI/BYF

I AM A VERY CRINGEY SCENE KID/ALTERHUMAN/AGEPETRE/QUEER !!

I ALWAYS USE A TQ, AND ALWAYS TYPE IN GREEN !! (WITH AN OCCASIONAL RAINBOW !!

I AM SOSO SENSITIVE !!!! PLEASE BE NICIEZ !!!!

MY OPINIONS, THOUGHTS, F33LINGZ, ECT ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE CREATOR'S, AND WE ARE NOT THE SAME PURRSON

COLLECTIVELY DELUSIONAL. COLLECTIVELY "PROBLEMATICLY" DELUSIONAL TOO. IF YOU FIND ANY DELUSIONS "PROBLEMATIC" "RACIST" "ABELIST" ECT DNI. DELUSIONS CANNOT BE CONTROLLED. DELUSIONAL FOLKS ARENT PROBLEMATIC FOR THEIR "BAD" DELUSIONS.

I DONT KNOW WHAT TO ADD RIGHT NOW, I'LL ADD MORE LATER !! :3

CREDITZ !!

:33 < BANNER + WHOLE BLOG THEME

:33 < BLINKIEZ, BLINKIEZ, BLINKIEZ, BLINKIEZ, BLINKIEZ !!

TAG GUIDE !!

"⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ *ac twiches her friendly whiskers at ct* ⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ " - TALKING !! :3

"⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ nep's repaws and claws ! :3⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ " - REBLOGZ :3

"⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ did you ever have someone nice back on earth who you loved?⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ " - VENTZ

"⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ i miss pounce a lot :((⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ " - MISSING SOURCEMATEZ

"⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ i am very purrturbed by this⋆౨ৎ˚⟡˖ ࣪ " - ASKS

:33 < THIS MAY BE UPDATED LATER !!

🟥⬛🟧⬛🟨⬛🟩⬛🟦⬛🟪⬛🟦⬛🟩⬛🟨⬛🟧

SIDEBLOGGIEZ !!

:33 < AGE/PETRE SIDEBLOG:

@little-nepz

:33 < PLURAL BLOG WHERE WE ALL POST FURROM:

@i-am-a-multiple-choice-question

:33 < THE CREATOR/ORIGINAL'S BLOG:

@aftonsparv-bugzz

:33 < OK IDONT KNOW WHAT TO DO NOW UH

:33 < BLINKIE ATTACK !!!!

[rainymojis]

hi!! im rainy, and i really like drawing discord emojis..so i decided to bring it to tumblr!!

style may be inconsistent because i like trying out new stuffs. oh yeah also no hard feelings if i dont get to ur request all that quick i like either speedrunning it or taking my time.. no in between

🍂Will do:

• animals

• basic yellow emoji people

• system related emotes

• agere and petre related emotes

• mild gore

• simple words or phrases

• icons for aac boards

• pokemon + warrior cats related stuff

• simple edits of already existing emotes (as long as they have been made by me)

• objects/items

- otherkin/therian/alterhuman related emotes

- emotes with simple animation

🍁Wont do:

- extremely complex designs

- specific characters from medias (unless said otherwise above)

- detailed people (i find it hard to get it to look right..ill just stick to the yellow people, or whatever other colour)

- severe gore

- nsfw or emotes referencing nsfw content

🍄Please DNI if:

- homophobes, transphobes, racists, etc (obviously)

- proshippers/comshippers

- endos/willos/tulpas + their supporters

- anti sfw agere+petre

Requests: closed for now

please include in your request what youd like the emotes to say!! if you just say “can i get some emotes of (animal)” i will assume you are giving me full liberty on what the emotes will say. dont be afraid to be specific!!

[steaming-system-takes]

Hot take/thoughts. Idk :

I'm firmly anti endo. I don't think you can be a system without trauma, considering system is the medical term for the trauma disorder.

Hypothetically, even if there were other forms of plurality, which I'm dubious of, I think those would be different than systems. Again, system is the MEDICAL TERM for the TRAUMA DISORDER. I think anyone who genuinely feels as if they experience similar symptoms but don't have trauma, they should find and/or make their own label to use instead of barging into the space for traumatized people. It was extremely disappointing when I discovered I had DID and got excited over having a community of people who understood, at least in some senses as it varies from body to body, what it was like; only to see people who don't know what it's like saying they do.

Because, if you don't have trauma, you don't know what the trauma disorder is like. It's not just alters. It's flashbacks and dissociation and fear and anger and one person is hypersexual the other is sex repulsed and now they're in front together, it's not knowing who you are or who you were and your personality changing as you switch or even as an alter merge with others.

I don't think endos are systems. I think, maybe, some of them might have disorders that present similarly, and I think, maybe, some are confused. Maybe they don't remember their trauma. I hope they heal, and I hope they realize their trauma was valid and enough. And I hope they stop contributing to endo rhetoric.

I don't think everyone who is endo or pro endo is inherently harmful. I think some of them are, definitely, but I think most don't actually have bad intentions; they're sharing what they believe to be true, even if the information itself is harmful.

But I do, as someone who has looked at both sides, think that we as a community have dealt with them the wrong way.

I think it's natural that a lot of people's first reactions is defensive, but we could be educating them and asking them to consider our points instead of jumping straight to "they're faking".

I'd be angry if a bunch of people told me I was faking what feels real to me, too.

And I am in no way excusing their actions; I'm just asking us as a community to stop getting angry for a moment, if we can, and try to solve this.

At the end of the day, threats and insults and whatever else is not going to change their minds. And I think, if they attack you personally, you're well within your rights to attack that person back; but don't go onto their pages and yell at them for the sake of it, please. It's making it worse.

I'm tired of having my trauma disorder be a source of anger and hurt outside of the body, because it already affects us enough internally. OSDDID is inherently a hard disorder to have; don't make it harder.

^

[sophieinwonderland]

Let's talk about some anti-endo propaganda! Specifically, what I call the Source Gish Gallop

Here's Wikipedia's description of the Gish gallop.

During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate. Each point raised by the Gish galloper takes considerably more time to refute or fact-check than it did to state in the first place, which is known online as Brandolini's law. The technique wastes an opponent's time and may cast doubt on the opponent's debating ability for an audience unfamiliar with the technique, especially if no independent fact-checking is involved or if the audience has limited knowledge of the topics.

Now, with a Source Gish gallop, what you want to instead do is provide a massive list of sources and links that looks intimidating and credible, provide no context on how those sources are supposed to prove your point, and just expect nobody to bother clicking the links to check because there are so many and debunking them all will take too long.

Case and point:

Let's look at that first source from McLean.

Okay, cool... but "associated" doesn't mean "only comes from."

And later on in that article, it says it "most often" develops during early childhood in kids experiencing trauma.

The "most often" inherently implies that DID can exist without trauma.

What about the Psych Central link?

Well, it says DID has "strong links" to trauma.

And that it's "usually" associated with trauma.

Which, again, implies there are situations where it's not.

The Mayo Clinic source also uses the same "usually" wording.

I could go on and on with these but I think you get the point.

On my own blog, I share plenty of sources supporting the existence of endogenic plurality. When I do, I usually screenshot the most relevant points and then provide a full link to anyone who wants to investigate further.

The screenshot is to make it simple for the reader so they can see what the sources say and how it relates to the point that I'm making. And the links are to keep myself honest so people can fact check and make sure I'm not taking things out of context.

The point of sharing sources, for me, is trying to inform people.

When anti-endos provide huge lists of sources with no indication what those sources are supposed to prove, their goal is overwhelming your brain and your ability to reason.

They're expecting you to see a huge list, nod along, and decide that if someone has that many links to support them then they must be in the right. Even though those links are not only failing to prove their points but are actively contradicting them.

And as someone who genuinely loves science and psychology specifically... I find this use of "sources" to be deeply perverse.

Yeah, I said it.

You're taking science and using it in a way that's specifically designed to discourage people from reading it. You're relying on your audience being too overwhelmed by you posting a huge number of links with no context to ever click on any of them. Yes, this is a perversion of science, using these lists of bad links as a mean of promoting ignorance.