#look i have a lot of feelings about ww!link and oot!link

[joshuamj]

Linktober Day 8. Tunic

[starshipdecay]

Toon Zelda redesigns! I've never been fond of the Toon Zelda design, and these girls deserve some individuality. Design notes and rambles below the cut :D

(time to turn the proper grammar off i aint capitalizing all this. warning: i am verbose)

first up, tmc zelda!

shes the one most like toon zelda, since i felt like the vibes fit the *most* (though not a lot). also, with her place on the timeline, i could justify a lot of bits, like the wings and the cape

the cape! obvs it comes from the toon zelda base design, but also it involves skyloftian fashion! i take the timeline as a challenge, and i once saw a take somewhere that the skyloftians all wear their family crests (most often birds lol) on their person. zelda here (and link too) do just that, wearing their family crests on little caplets. on the back is, of course the royal crest

i went very cutesy princess for her. tmc has such a *whimsical* vibe that i feel is very. muted? by the fact its stuck with the toon style. so i wanted to put in that vibe here. also her sprites make it look like her skirt is super poofy, so how could i not?

curly hair: i wanted something interesting, and most zeldas have straight hair. so! adds to the cuteness

i didnt draw it so well but she (and link) both have very sleepy expressions. zelda especially just has a sleepy expression in her sprite, its quite adorable.

shes not as decked out as other princesses, cuz i see tmc taking place before the royal family really starts to get *royal* as we see it. shes still of course got a tiara and some embroidery tho.

Tetra! her base design isnt all that changed from the original. her name is a fun hc of mine tho. i think "von Hyrule" sounds better as a surname than just "hyrule". shes not zelda, but shes still a descendant.

(WW) princess z (as i call her)

I went more oot zelda vibes for her, since she would be closer, temporally, to oot. i also went very warm, since ive never seen the flood as a *warm* endeavor.

shes got the shoulder danglies, as most zeldas have shoulder armor of some kind. the danglies instead of actual armor are supposed to kind of evoke a royal sea captain kind of vibe.

shes ghostly, with a fish-eyed stare. shes been dead and gone for a long time. shes also a bit taller and a few years older than tetra (as of ww). shes just some spectre the king saw in tetra, not at all a close match

tetra, being smaller than princess z, doesnt fit into the clothes. the dress is too big for her (as is in canon gd that skirt is WAY too long for her), the coat is baggy. the role of a princess *literally* does not fit her.

the ribbons! theyre my replacement for the wings, and they represent the wind in the game! since its represented by white lines, the ribbons are a perfect symbolic match. (also, a note, tetras hair is shorter and coarser than princess z's)

i mostly bullshitted the blue panel but the vague idea i gave it was 'a hope for the triforce to give good fortunes to the people' (pictured as dots, mostly behind her arms)

Pirate Queen Tetra

ph! about a year has passed, and tetra has really grown into her own! as well as literally grown!

shes still tetra, pirate and captain, but shes incorporated that royal heritage into her identity: quite literally! she made piecemeal of the original outfit (what was left of it anyway after the fight), and added bits and pieces to her new life.

she also takes full advantage of said heritage to call herself pirate queen. its great for branding. whos gonna say she CANT go by pirate queen?

the seagull feather is from Aryll. only crew member tetra wears a trinket from (who can say no to that ball of sunshine! certainly not tetra)

not many notes. yall can see whats there. (also she still wears her hair in a bun, its just in a low bun (you can almost see it) when she wears her hat)

st zelda!

first note is: shes not a princess! shes an heiress of the company tetra had made and left behind. hence her title of Lady zelda. ("new hyrule" rly just like-- the ending of ww was *literally* that hyrule is dead and thats okay. how did they miss that :sob emoji:) also calling her Lady Zelda fits with the train vibes

shes in a 1880s style bustle dress because 1) i am OBSESSED with bustle dresses. i love them. so much. 2) the more historical vibe works really well with trains! also a lot of the other outfits in the game have late victorian vibes, so shes certainly not out of place.

her hat (and gloves): any proper lady has a hat on when going about town, however, when she gets body snatched, she pulled out her hatpin to use (ineffectively) as a weapon (she IS tetras great-great-granddaughter), causing her to lose her hat *and* hairdo.

shes still got the hatpin in her ghost form, too. she uses it to threaten people for funsies

Ribbons! on the topic of hairdo, her ribbons! visually tying her to tetras design, the ribbons here instead take on the image of train tracks, with her pin (on the left side) evoking a train engine. the pin also makes her look rich and girly. when her hair comes undone, this makes the ribbons all loose, like how the train tracks disappear in game. (the hat also kinda connects her to tetra)

thanks for reading :D i hope you liked reading this as much as i liked typing it

[turbofanatic]

I don't have like, firm plans for a big Links meetup but it's fun to speculate about. Especially the reunion of the Links that fought in the War of Eras (this includes the Link made for Hyrule Warriors 2014, Link from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, Link from Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, and Link from Spirit Tracks. Technically WW, PH, and ST Link are kind of the same warrior in that game but with different weapons so I'm separating them).

In a horrible yet hilarious way, taking Hyrule Warriors somewhat seriously means that the War of Eras had lots of child soldiers on the good side. HW Link was only 16 when shit hit the fan, and went from recruit-in-training to Hyrule's holy symbol and the subject of a mad sorceress's obsession. Nobody would handle that well. And while at least he was older than the other Links that show up, WW/PH is the only experienced Link who believes in Hyrule (I think ST Link has a dim view of the backwards country he's stuck in) and is somewhat emotionally mature (OoT/MM is ten years old and watched the world end multiple times, he's barely hanging on himself). Which means that WW/PH Link, at 14 years old, is the one best situated to get things done.

Except, well you try to have a 14 year old order around a 16 year old that's been told he's chosen by God. It will not go well. Nothing is as dysfunctional as the excellent Call Them Brothers fanfic, but oh wow yeah they are all doing badly.

If they did reunite years later, Tiny would forgive everything. He can't stay mad at kids and animals. It's the only way they stay (barely) sane after all. HW Link would not be as forgiving because he's closer in time to his trauma (he's in his late thirties here and the aftereffects of the war went on for a long time), but he's slowly coming to terms with the horrible situation they were all in and is attempting to do better, he's just going to slip up a lot. I don't know about WW/PH and ST Link yet.

So yeah, if they meet up again Tiny is immediately going to try to be friends, except he's poorly socialized and is probably bringing up stuff HW Link wants to forget, and HW Link is probably not setting boundaries because he feels bad about that fact that he used this guy as a war crime when he was sixteen and they were ten. They'll probably blow up at each other at some point. Maybe they'll work their shit out. Maybe not. Would make for a hilarious drunken fight scene though since they're both crazy strong.

Saw an old design for hanging sleeves and I had to give them to HW Link (he's got a good variety of outfits, along with Righty so he'll just be in a lot of different clothes at times). I think he's kind of a fancy guy in general, or at least tries to look like one for political reasons. As far as the nose scar goes, I think he's rather chill about it now. He was probably very distraught initially. Now he's more annoyed that it makes him very recognizable.

Anyways I fucking love old muffin top Hero of Time and bald HW Link. My blorbos. My precious warcrime idiots.

[ryttu3k]

If I've never played Zelda before, do you think it's OK to start with one of the current games?

Yeah, absolutely! If we're going for an ideal first game, I'd be looking for three things: 1) it's not heavily dependent on having already played or knowing a great deal about another game, 2) it's still got a consequential amount of story and a familiar structure to introduce you to the rest of the greater history of Hyrule (assuming you want to get into the series and not a single game), and 3) it doesn't have a completely different playstyle (like Echoes of Wisdom's Echo-based gameplay, or Majora's Mask's time mechanics).

With those in mind, Breath of the Wild is an ideal first game to play, because it doesn't have any firm connection with other games in the timeline, but instead stands entirely on its own. It has enough Zelda traditions to lead you into the other games, and it's just huge and gorgeous and expansive. Skyward Sword would also be great, it's the earliest in the timeline, fits a lot of the established Zelda structure, and the remastered version avoids a lot of the issues the original had with motion controls. Both have beautiful stories, incredibly engaging characters, and are 'complete packages', story-wise.

For the most recent release, I wouldn't start with Echoes of Wisdom, because it's extremely different, gameplay-wise, to any other Zelda game and is much less expansive. Tears of the Kingdom is a direct sequel to Breath of the Wild (...sort of) and so is also best left to afterwards, too. Ocarina of Time would be a solid option for a first game; I'd probably leave Wind Waker and Twilight Princess until after playing Ocarina.

So, for a first game and introduction to the series, I'd recommend:

Ideal as first game: Breath of the Wild (huge, expansive, breathtakingly gorgeous game, suitable setting to introduce you to the series), Skyward Sword (another beautiful game, first game chronologically so not dependent on others, remaster fixes a lot of control issues)

Good as first game: Ocarina of Time (nods to earlier lore but not heavily dependent, introduces a lot of series tropes, but not quite as huge and expansive as BotW; this was my first game!), Link to the Past (dated, but the first heavily lore-based game, also introduces a lot of series tropes)

Has issues as first game: Wind Waker and Twilight Princess (better to play after Ocarina of Time but certainly doable), The Legend of Zelda (first-released game, but very dated), Link's Awakening (direct sequel, but still independent enough to possible to play as first), Oracle of Ages and Seasons, Minish Cap (lighter stories, but less suitable as an introduction to the series)

Avoid as first game: Adventure of Link (direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda, mechanically very different, dated), Majora's Mask (direct sequel to OoT, mechanically different), Four Swords / Four Swords Adventures (light on story), Phantom Hourglass (direct sequel to WW, Temple of the Ocean King would probably turn you off the series entirely), Spirit Tracks (sequel to WW/PH), A Link Between Worlds (sequel to LttP), Tears of the Kingdom (direct sequel - sort of - to BotW), Tri Force Heroes and Echoes of Wisdom (mechanically extremely different, gives a different impression of the series)

tl;dr the best games to start with are Breath of the Wild and Skyward Sword (specifically, the remastered version). Of the two, I'd recommend Breath of the Wild. Ocarina of Time and Link to the Past also are solid options. Avoid the direct sequels and the games with very different mechanics, and a lot of the smaller games don't give a good impression of the series overall.

That said, this is solely based on my opinion! I know people who started with games like Majora's Mask or Link Between Worlds and had an absolute blast, I just personally feel I got more out of those games due to knowing the earlier games.

Happy playing!

[all-hail-trudos]

The way Zelda redditors behave like BotW is going to be the template for future titles is absolutely hilarious. They are convinced that Nintendo is done with classic Zelda elements forever. TotK proves it! Never mind that they can barely agree on whether this even deserves to be called a new game or overpriced DLC. Or that Nintendo themselves have said that this was a very big experiment, where they let a team comprised of mostly younger devs run the show, and the director of BotW has actually left the company to go work on Infinity Nikki of all things. I don't know what the future of Zelda is going to look like. I can't see Nintendo just walking back everything they did in BotW. (And they better not. Skyward Sword is the worst mainline Zelda title, and BotW was the exact opposite of the hand holding the series had gotten really bad for). However, we can guarantee one thing for sure. The open-air game concept that specifically defined Breath of the Wild and its direct sequel Tears of the Kingdom is not simply going to be the new template for the series.

I could leave it there with a "because Nintendo said so" but it's midnight and I'm already making bad decisions, so I'm going to go one further and back this up with a second supporting argument. That's not how Nintendo as a company works. That's not how they've ever worked. They stopped doing rational, clear iterative upgrades when they followed up the Gamecube with the Wii. The Zelda series itself has constantly been one of self reinvention. Ocarina of Time is incredibly special in that Breath of the Wild is the first time they've so clearly broken away from the model it set. But when you look at the rest of the series, it's obvious BotW was the biggest experiment, but not even remotely the first. Majora's Mask turned the main gameplay concept on its head by putting everything on a Very. Tight. Timer. When you hit midnight of the third day, that was it. Rewind or die. All your progress was reset except for your sword (iirc), your masks, and your rupees if you put them in the bank (because the banker was a time traveler?). Wind Waker flooded the whole continent and had you sailing around on a boat, using a proto-physics system to fill your sails. The wide open world of OoT was gone altogether, and Princess Zelda didn't show up until halfway through the game (we won't talk about what they did to Tetra). Twilight Princess made the game super linear and made Zelda herself almost secondary to the plot. Actually, TP almost feels like the most direct callback to OoT with the doubling down on horse mounted combat, an art style that looked more like it next to whatever WW was doing (but which would ultimately age a lot worse), dungeons that also felt more directly inspired, and a combat system that was a little less fluid and reactive. But it also had Link temporarily become a werewolf, and gave us an egregiously underappreciated Spaghetti Western shootout that came out of nowhere and was all together too brief. Then Skyward Sword came along, which was the least reinventive of the bunch mechanically, but which did at least try to turn the classic narrative on its head. Also Zelda went from being barely there to being a driving character in the narrative. And she walked so BotW Princess Zelda could run. That said, imho, you can see why they leaned so much harder into experimentation with their next game that nearly skipped a whole console generation, because by SS the series tropes were getting a little too strong. The series was actually drifting into iterative territory, and that's not the typical Nintendo way. Especially not with one of their two core in-house franchises.

(Please don't bring up Pokemon here. I know it's Nintendo's third core franchise. But please remember, Zelda and Mario are solely owned by Nintendo, while Pokemon is at this point is at the center of an entire corporate conglomerate, which Nintendo is only part of).

I get that some people didn't enjoy BotW. I can sympathize with the people who did not want more like it and who were consequently less than thrilled by TotK's arrival. But bemoaning the fall of the franchise and saying Nintendo is going to be like Ubisoft, EA, and all the other trend chasing studios out there is really going too far. Nintendo has spent too many years baffling investors to start doing that now. Yes, Tears of the Kingdom exists. No, it's not proof of the trend. It was a planned sequel (itself an enormously rare concept in Zelda history). You can't make a planned story and gameplay sequel to a game and just throw away the concept you're following up on. That would be an enormously bad idea. (Worse, even, than trying to make your sequel game stand on its own for new players and erasing nearly all memory of Link from the same people he helped save. I love TotK so much, but I am not blind to its flaws, what few there are).

ALSO yes Echoes of Wisdom has Zelda stacking beds into a diy staircase. NO that doesn't mean we're seeing a return of this apparently beloathed systems-based physics gameplay in 2D fashion. If there were physics, the beds would have fallen over. That's like calling Minecraft or Dragon Quest Builders a physics based exploration game just because they have objects you can stack. That is the dumbest take I've seen come out of a community that is profoundly skilled at coming out with dumb takes.

[candy8448]

Timeline placement theories

Not gonna provide images cuz im not bothered

I have a few threories so ill order them 1-however many in order of which i like most-least

1. After the hero of legend or the hero of legend again (so after alttp, oos, ooa & la)

I think the downfall timeline is more likely. We have Ganon after he shed his humanity, which only happens in the downfall timeline, Zelda's dress looks similar to ALTTP zelda's blue dress, there are the hostile zora style zora, the la remake style (though that could just be for speed of making). However link doesn't have the yellow stripe that all of the downfall links have. We do also have two randomly seperate games between the hero of legend and hero of hyrule so what's one more? We can even hc it to be albw link and zelda is we really want. Also we have what seems to be an old impa. The only timeline of the slip timelines where we see impa being OLD is the downfall timeline (at least that i know of) but that is probably unrelated completely

2. Before botw (before the great calamity 10,000 years ago)

Now this could probably clash with my tears of the kingdom placement headcanon, or work with it. But we see both types of zora from the downfall and child timelines, and who knows? Maybe those rifts are what is reconnecting the timeline (why maybe the two zora types are confronting(?) Eachother) dont have much else to say about this but its a neat little placement. Also maybe the reconnected timeline is a way to show the new direction the zelda games are foing, at least maybe what they are thinking in nintendo hq or something. Also the sword and bow and cape that link had look kinda like the zonai tech. As much as i dont like the zonai and want this to be completely seperate from the botw/totk/aoc-verse, maybe they took inspiration. Especially with the ultra-build aspect of the echoes and similar ui

3. After oot, before alttp

Less plausible. I dont exactly remember the alttp lore but it feels like, and i love the fact that tge hero o legend arrived because of the fact that the hero of time died and he has to fix things. Hoever that could be what's going on. So i just like the idea of it being in the downfall timeline so much

4. Before oot

Less likely, but hyrule does seem to look a lot more thhriving and big. However, ganon only shows up for the first time and as a human in oot, and the hostile zora wouldn't have evolved that way yet since everything is peaceful and not corrupted. We also have a deku scrub, but idk what that means, also forgot what game they are from

5. (Worst) child or adult timeline

Child is slightly more plausible, but i really dont want it to be there. We do have the oot/tp style zora but it judt doesnt work as well.

Adult timeline i HOPE they dont touch it ever again. Not becausd i do t like it but because they made it so well that shoving another game in there would ruin it. The flow from ww to ph to st works so well and was clearly really thought out. Also hyrule is kinda flooded, and we have the gerudo desert so it can't be new hyrule, and it cant be before ww because the whole lore of that is there WAS NO hero to save hyrule so it wouldn't make sense. This is the worst option ever to place it.

In conclusion: theory number 2 is probably most plausible imo, but i would like it to be theory number 1 most

I was just thinking, imagine if nintendo decided to make a 4th timeline in the timeline split XD

Anyways

Goobye

[blueskittlesart]

okay so feel free to delete this message for asking you about TP crimes. but I'm curious if you have any purely aesthetic thoughts about the Link + Zelda designs, as well as the Zora designs, in TP? like how do you feel about the designs on their own, even apart from your distaste for the general atmosphere + story. again feel free to ignore this for TP crimes and no harm done!

yeah ok. disclaimer for those who don't know. i don't like twilight princess and i think the art direction was almost as bad as the story. do not argue with me about this. let's get into it. link first

from a purely character-design standpoint I don't think this design is bad, but I don't think it's all that special either. it's very evocative of oot link, which I'm SURE was intentional based off everything else in the game. it does a decent job of complicating the outfit to the standards of tp's setting without going too overboard in terms of little details. the long hat looks stupid but i understand what they were going for. my biggest critique of the design itself is the desaturated color scheme, which I understand was present in the game at large but. I don't like it. I honestly do think that taking away the vibrance and colorfulness of loz takes a lot of the fun out of it. these games were originally for the NES. we're working off of 8-color pixel graphics. link's tunic should be eye-searingly green no matter how dark and brooding you want his story to be, because without that brightness and vibrance the games cease to feel like loz imo.

anyway. the real PROBLEM with this design, and with most of the art direction in tp, lies in how it was actually handled in-game. twilight princess was a game for the wii & gamecube, released in 2006. while advancements in graphics were GETTING THERE, the models were still relatively low-poly. The franchise had already seen a lot of success working with low-poly models in oot and ww, specifically because they leaned into the limitations of low-poly graphics and went for a more cartoonish, unrendered art style which made the blocky models seem purposefully stylized instead of limiting. twilight princess, however, did a complete 180 with the art direction and decided to attempt to HIDE the low-poly graphics behind over-rendered textures. this combined with the desaturated color palette of the character designs makes everything look very flat and lifeless.

in every close shot of link throughout this game i was constantly distracted by how awful the textures made the model look. the rendered folds of his tunic being slapped onto a flat surface, the rendering in his hair being an obvious coverup for the fact that it's one mass on the model with no physics, etc etc. the textures seldom rendered perfectly smoothly on the wii either, so the painted rendering would be strangely pixelated or blurry compared to the model's sharp edges. the game's lighting also seems to operate entirely in harsh black gradients, making the color and rendering choices on the model all the more obvious. Again, I understand that these are limitations of the medium the devs were working with, but i think that art direction that takes the medium into account and works WITH it instead of AGAINST it is almost always more successful than attempts to cover your ass after the fact, and i think that twilight princess could have been a more visually pleasing game if the art direction hadn't been so focused on covering the flatness of the models with hyper realistic textures.

onto zelda. again, we have a theme here of taking the oot design and overcomplicating it. i think the color choices are better here than they are with link, but i would have liked a brighter pink on her bodice. I also think that the dress's neckline was... pretty obviously a sexualization attempt. there's a reason men love this zelda. imo if they were going to keep oot zelda's shoulder armor they should also have kept the breastplate-ish piece in the middle and the high neckline from that dress. you cant say ooh look shes a swordfighter see she has armor!! and then leave her fucking jugular exposed. no wonder she got possessed by ganon immediately. other than my general complaints with the over-rendering i don't have much else to say about her tho. shes fine

the zora tho... this is where i start to get pissed off. HOW ARE YOU GONNA DESIGN A SPECIES OF FISH PEOPLE BASED ON TROPICAL FUCKING FISH AND THEN REFUSE TO PUT A SINGLE SATURATED COLOR INTO ANY OF THEIR DESIGNS. the way these designs could all be improved by about a hundred percent if you just TURNED UP THE GODDAMN SATURATION. GIVE ME A REAL RED. IM BEGGING. UGGHHHHHHHHHH. i also think the ugly rendering REALLY shows through on these guys because they don't have a lot of detail on them to cover it all up. someone needs to explain to these designers that you don't shade with black. like. god. the designs truly are not bad in terms of like creature design i dont think but they are so DESPERATELY in need of color that it's fucking distracting. color is not your enemy guys please

[rawliverandgoronspice]

New anon. I've been a few reading your thoughts and general posts, and I really agree so strongly to many of them. Some of my biggest pet peeves in the story were really how weirdly disjointed it felt, with missing reasoning and foundation? If I may share my thoughts? I wish they had genuinely focused more on characters besides Zelda, because by the end of the storyline, and having watched all the tears, I was left more confused and empty, and not satisfied at all. Not to be rude to Zelda, but I really stopped caring about her because I was so hyperfocused on wanting to know more about the Zonai, Sonia, the Sages, and Ganondorf... and then nothing, well except two tears, and they gave almost no plot relevance? It was such a pity. The sages? Who? Why? How? Every sage showing the exact same memory with only a tiny bit of their personality sprinkled, but nothing about them as sages made me miffed. Ganondorf felt really like a missed opportunity, I think you, other anon's and everyone has already said it. In my words: Lost potential. I don't even need a big sobstory or anything, a monologue like in WW? Yeah he's angry that the Zonai are wasting their "god like powers" but WHY is he so angry about it? How are the lives of the Gerudo? Why are they split? Even if he was raised to crave power, just getting more of a look at why would have been nice. The Gerudo sage would have been a perfect candidate to get some explanation. (I'd have much preferred that over some of the more slice-of-life Zelda tears tbh.) I know it's called "The legend of ZELDA!" But I always took that to be more along the lines of "This is the legend of Zelda, but we (the player) see the legend from behind the scenes." Zelda being a major player and royalty would obviously be more interesting to in-universe historians, and easier to write down, with Link always just being "The hero clad in green!" But us, as the player, we see what really occurred, how the hero came to be, and that he's not "just a hero" but he's actually just a guy, who then takes up the mantle of hero. I just wasn't too invested in Zelda's story, especially since she's just background noise for a lot of the story. (Idk how to best word it, pardon me.)

Hello, thank you for the ask and sorry for taking so long to reply!!

Yeah, I mean I don't even think that Zelda got much opportunity to be a character either, despite her being the throughline for most of it. I don't feel like I learned anything new about her character that I didn't know from BotW, and some aspects developed in that game were gone entirely. As you said, she does feel like background noise, a witness to other people's story. Her nerdiness is set-up and then never really paid off (despite her and Mineru interacting), she gets no personal interaction with Ganondorf... I actually don't think they ever speak to one another directly, for the whole game????

Just went out to check that out and... Ganondorf says Zelda's name to her once, then Zelda asks him how he knows their name. That's it. That's the entire sum of their conversation in the entire game, and it happens in the first 5 opening minutes. Unless you count fake Zelda, but even then that would only be a single sentence, and honestly I don't think it counts?

The more I dig around and the more I'm truly baffled by some of the narrative choices made in this game. Like I want to be Normal about it again (and managing, slowly, just getting through the last asks) but.... honestly I don't understand what happened. The straight up refusal to build up any kind of actual dramatic tension between the leading trio is so baffling to me. Like, not to dip back into the TotK Rewrite Well, but: why didn't they fully commit to the OoT route, since they were already so far down, where Zelda is the only one to suss out Ganondorf is out to get them, and so the tension is concentrated between the two of them, where she tries to save Rauru and Sonia from his scheme but can't (which would also give weight to her sacrifice as she turns into a dragon)? Then you'd have an actual reason to feel invested in the plot and want to avenge her and those she cared about! Why are the stakes so split out between Rauru, Zelda and Mineru, to the point where nothing has any oomph and you, as Link, feel pretty much uninvolved in the entire situation?

Like, sure the buildup to the final fight was amazing, the soundtrack is sooooo sososo good, the mood and ambiance is probably at its best, the fight itself is a little treat, but. I really felt like I was a Hyrule appointed cop having to walk into the freaky abandoned basement and yelling "sir I've been mandated by the royal family to formally ask you to stop dumping experimental chemicals into the sewers of the kingdom" to the local weirdo squatter in his broken hot tub, and then fighting about it.

But personal investment and stakes really didn't land for me. I was glad to see Ganondorf, tho I would have prefered him telling me anything other than generic anime villain stuff before repeatedly punting my face into the floor. But yeah. The story was disjointed, and it kept me from enjoying the extremely carefully crafted mechanics to their fullest capacity. :(

[sammie-scribbles]

LoZ Gender Ideas

Note: These are my headcanons! I just like to take details from the canon and run with them as far as they will take me. Feel free to use these ideas if you want! Also only the OoT Link and Saria one has images because I’m tired. Put some Subway Surfers on if you get bored of all of the text /lh /j

Zelda/Sheik (OoT) - he/him

In Ocarina of Time, Zelda disguises himself as Sheik for seven years. That is a very long time to purposefully disguise yourself as a different gender. I don’t believe he even knew how long it would be until Link woke up. For all he knew, Link might never have come back.

He could’ve disguised himself as a Sheikah woman, but seems to have chosen to be a man.

The manga version is a little iffy, but Zelda seems to agree to Impa’s plan of having his conscience rest to “become that of a Sheikah boy”.

“Now, what about when he reveals himself as Princess Zelda and stays that way for the rest of the game?” You might ask.

I think it might’ve been to quickly relay information to Link.

He revealed himself as Zelda in the Temple of Time right before Link was to go defeat Ganondorf. It would’ve wasted valuable time to explain that he had transitioned from Zelda to Sheik. (Also, he was immediately kidnapped by Ganondorf)

He is also the one who sends Link back to the Child Timeline, so he probably knew that  they wouldn’t stay to get to know this particular version of himself.

Zelda/Sheik (HW) - they/them

In Hyrule Warriors, Zelda seems to disguise themself as Sheik for no apparent reason.

They are constantly referred to as the “Sheikah youth”, no gender being assigned to them.

My headcanon is that Zelda saw a chance to temporarily escape the shackles and expectations of “Princess Zelda”, and that they could truly explore themself for a little while.

Sheik has many lines talking about how they will be playing some sort of music, or even historical uses of music. Zelda’s lines mainly focus on the others around them. So, maybe their dream was to be a historian or bard?

Link (BotW/TotK) - he/they

In Breath of the Wild, Link is very androgynous.

However, I noticed that he doesn’t seem to identify as a woman in any way.

They seem to like traditionally “girly” things (ie. nail polish, being called “pretty”). But, when someone asks him if he’s a woman (Riju wonders about the Hylian Champion being a vai), he seems to become possibly uncomfortable and corrects them. They also seem shocked and scared when someone realizes they are not a vai (the one Hylian in Gerudo Town, the shopkeeper in the secret shop).

He doesn’t even keep the Gerudo Vai set in Tears of the Kingdom.

Fado (OoT/WW) - he/him

In Ocarina of Time, Fado is a Kokiri that seems fairly cryptic during the medicine quest.

In Wind Waker, Fado is the Wind Sage.

Interestingly, even though they share the same name (and in my opinion, look similar) they use different pronouns.

Lots of people (myself included) see this and head canon that they are indeed the same person, but he transitioned to a boy between the events of Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker.

Bonuses!

Or, more accurately, fun things I noticed that I have no clue how to interpret, lol

Link (FSA) - idk I avoided assigning pronouns cause I can’t decide

In Four Swords Adventures, Link is able to go into Gerudo Town without any problems whatsoever.

Granted, this seems to be a point in time where the Gerudo are trying to forge relations with the rest of Hyrule, and they could’ve gotten rid of that law. But, that law is in effect in BotW, and I doubt that the Gerudo would get rid of the law only to bring it back later. So, it would make sense that the law is still in effect during Four Swords Adventures.

So, either, the Gerudo assumed that Link was not a boy (possible) OR that Link is not a boy in this incarnation (also possible). I don’t know which of these options I will be using, but feel free to use this as you want to!

Link and Saria (OoT) - they/them?

In Ocarina of Time, the Kokiri all wear very similar clothing.

The girls wear a tunic with a brown belt, brown boots, and a headband. The boys wear a v-neck shirt with shorts, green boots, and a cap.

Interestingly, Saria and Link both don’t follow these rules.

Saria wears shorts, green boots, and a headband. Link wears tunic with a brown belt, browns boots, and a cap.

This seems to suggest that Link and Saria don’t fall into the gender binary. What gender does this make them? IDK, this is just something interesting I noticed.

Link (AoL) - he/she?

In the Adventure of Link, Link is able to transform into a fairy. This fairy form looks identical to any other fairy, including the feminine body figure.

This seems to suggest she’s genderfluid to an extent? Since it’s only when she is a fairy?

He also seems (relatively) fine with becoming the king of Hyrule? (though, I guess that Elizabeth Swann from PotC was a king as well, lol)

IDK. Just an interesting thing I noticed.

[barramundi]

my twilight princess journey: enemies to lovers apparently

A few days ago I beat the legend of zelda: twilight princess for the first time ever!! and man...... i am not okay (positive)

I've always been a HUGE zelda fan, ever since I was a little kid. i literally can't remember a time I didn't have zelda in my life. so much i used to spend all day long playing majora's mask with my older sibling and i remember how i knew there were other zelda games but i thought all of them would look like oot/mm... and then twilight princess was announced. and i thought that was the most beautiful game I had ever seen. i fell in love with midna and i thought link was just so handsome and cool... unfortunately i never owned a gamecube and apparently my sibling was not really interested in twilight princess, so... time went by and i never had the chance to play it.

and then, back in 2012, 10 years late, 14 year old me heard of the wind waker for the first time. i immediately fell in love with the art and i HAD to play that game. i owned a Wii at the time and i remember feeling disappointed realizing WW was for the gamecube but then FEELING EXCITED REALIZING THE WII COULD PLAY GAMECUBE GAMES. i fought really hard to be able to play the wind waker. and i did!!! i played it way too much probably. i always say it's at least my top 2 zelda. sometimes even top 1, only losing to majora's mask.

and twilight princess remained unnoticed........ until I noticed it... negatively

back in the day people used to hate a lot on the wind waker because of the graphics and art style. and what they would compare it to to say the graphics sucked?? twilight princess. "TP good dark mature awesome!!! WW bad stupid kiddy game!!" UGH i was outraged. i had to stand up for my favorite game!!! before i even noticed, i already hated twilight princess.

i had some (bad) reasons like being under the impression that TP was trying way too hard to be dark and gritty and realistic and that it took itself so seriously it made it look stupid. and i would compare it to majora's mask's effortlessness in creating a depressing but beautiful atmosphere without having to be visually dark. "TP wants to be MM soooo bad it's embarrassing hihihi!!!" oh shut up you never played it, weirdo!!!!

anyways, fast forward to may 2023. nintendo releases tears of the kingdom and with it apparently the end of the old zelda format. i was so devastated and sad... ever since botw, i was hoping for a new old-fashioned zelda game; and now it would never come... but still i was longing to play a zelda game. i wanted to GET THROUGH DUNGEONS, SOLVE PUZZLES, DO COOL SIDEQUESTS FOR FUNNY CHARACTERS!!! but i didn't want to play the ones I had already played again... i wanted something new... but what!!!

i looked at twilight princess, twilight princess looked at me.... i thought "welp... i guess I wouldn't be able to run from you forever". and off i went to hyrule... or rather, to ordon village

at first I was sincerely shocked by how much TP felt like the wind waker. same engine, similar combat (but greatly improved), same sound effects, the yellow rupee... i was jokingly saying it was the wind waker's evil twin lmao

when i got to the first dungeon, it finally hit me: through all these years, what the FUCK did I think twilight princess was gonna be other than... *SHOCK*... A NORMAL ZELDA GAME?????

A VERY GOOD ZELDA GAME???? T-THE BEST ONE????

remember all that talk about trying way too hard to be dark and gritty?? dude. what the fuck. this game is fucking adorable. midna is SO cool in a sweet way, the songs are great and honestly this is my favorite link ever. i always looked at him being marketed as a MANLY MAN THE MOST AGGRESSIVE REALISTIC LINK GGRRRR LOOK AT HOW DEEP HIS VOICE IS!!!! reality: he is the cutest link. literally the cutest most adorable link. bless him forever. i want to hug him so bad............. i am going to pass out (positive)

also midna and zelda. they are dating.

so yeah, there i was having an absolute blast with this game. it has the best dungeons I've ever seen. (except for lakebed temple. i hate lakebed temple. good thing arbiter's grounds is the best dungeon in the entire franchise.)

anyways I got to temple of time and then my PC fucking gave up and i had to go get it fixed; i lost all my progress and cried myself to sleep but then i pulled myself together and went through it all over again. and i would do it again. because i love this game. i finally beat it 5 days ago and i can't stop thinking about it. might just as well start another run honestly

twilight princess has now surpassed most zelda games I've played and is comfortably sitting under majora's mask and the wind waker as my 3rd favorite zelda game. but there is a twist: i haven't played MM and WW in years and i kinda needed to play them again just to confirm or change my ranking. the problem is that i just don't feel like playing them. 'cause i just want to play twilight princess!!!

so yeah, with a new personal record of 17 years of delay, it still feels kinda weird to say that twilight princess might just be my favorite zelda game ever. 🙏

that's it bye

[linked-history]

September Question Responses

All my responses from the @linked-maze discord server Questions Game channel from the Month of September. I'll try and update with pictures for the questions at later dates

How old is OoT Link Kiri?

I haven't really thought about it but Malon and Ahgin have been trying to help me figure it out.

What we figured out so far is that I started when I was 10, pulled the sword and spent 7 years with captain, took maybe a year or 2 going back and fourth to save Hyrule and Zelda. Zelda seems to know about another timeline that I lived in but I guess something happened and she doesn't talk about it. In the end we figured it's just easier to go with my "biological age" so im about 15-16, at least by our estimates.

What is BotW Link's Hermit's/Calamity's favorite food?

Hermit: I don't remember any dishes from before I woke up and have found a lot of recipes around Hyrule though my favorites are the village dishes, ones that are passed down through generations and tie with the villages history.... since I can't really remember my own.

Calamity: My favorite has always been apple pie, specifically my family's recipe for it. I've shared it with the other champions on occasion. Really, any excuse I could use resulted in me making the dish.

How does ALttP Link Prince feel about his Rabbit form?

Honestly I don't mind the form too much, I've found a bunch of pros to the form. I feel it's really good for sneaking in and around the palace, and the agility is great. My biggest complaint is that it's bright pink.... though I guess I can ignore the color cause Stylla likes it now that she knows about the form.

Has TP Link Beast reunited with Midna?

I... I try not to think about her much. Though I'm working with Shad to try and find a way to reconnect the two worlds but it's really slow going. There isn't much information in Hyrule and the Twili weren't really Shad's speciality.

What is SS Link's Loft's opinion on Ghirahim?

I didn't know what to think of him at first. Yeah, he was weird and honestly creepy. But it seemed like Fi knew him, like she was close to him at one point.

Since I defeated Demise, I've been trying to find his sword so I could maybe bring him back to Fi, but so far, I haven't had any luck.

What does WW Link Gull think of the Kingdom of Hyrule?

It was really cool seeing the castle and portion of it that I could during my first adventure, but I never had the chance to see more of it until meeting Zeila and the others.

Now I'm just trying to take it all in and wrap my head around the fact that Kiri's Hyrule later floods and becomes mine, though it's cool seeing what it looked like before flooding

[jheselbraum]

Another thing I'll say about oot ganondorf is that I underestimated the bones of that man.

I came into botw having only played albw, which I loved but didn't really have ganondorf in it at all, just ganon and even then he was kinda the 11th hour power up for the actual villain of the game. I knew of Ganondorf but I'd never played the games he was in, at least not all the way through. So when he showed up in totk I was like "oh neat, hope they're not racist about it" (we all know how that turned out) but I didn't really have context for like... what people who had played oot and tp and ww all the way through were really expecting, if that makes sense? And when the game first came out and all the "holy shit totk retconned oot?" video essays followed suit I looked at oot ganondorf and totk ganondorf and went "no there's no way they're the same person, any more than zelda and sonia are the same person" and I still think that's true but for a different reason now.

Cause as someone who quit their first run of oot halfway through the shadow temple because I have no nostalgia for that game and the revelation that on top of all the bullshit link was going through, the royal family you were helping put back in power used to black bag people they didn't like to be tortured in their torture dungeon before ganondorf's coup proved too high a cost for 17 year old me to justify the time spent slogging through the dated gameplay.

And at that point in the game, you haven't been to Gerudo Valley yet, and you haven't seen what Ganondorf actually looks like now, and I think those two things are really important.

Cause, the orientalism of the whole concept of the 'save the carpenters' sidequest aside, the first thing you as a player learn about the Gerudo now that you've actually gotten to interact with them is that they're... actually pretty chill. I hate the stealth sidequests in the early zelda games because they're fucking difficult and the Gerudo Valley one in particular is fucking racist as shit (other people have explained why a lot better than I ever could but having your society of all brown women suddenly start respecting the white male protagonist after he proved himself in combat is fucked up) but they never actually hurt you unless you're in direct combat with the guard minibosses and, connotations aside, I think that given the context it's important to note that. Because your fight is with Ganondorf, yeah, and he's a Gerudo, yeah, but as far as we can tell, the Gerudo don't have any particular ongoing beef with the Hylians, and if I had to ascribe real-world terms to it, I feel like the implication buried under the orientalism inherent to the situation is that the Gerudo view the Hylians as citizens of a vassal state that is ruled by their king, and not as enemy combatants in an ongoing war. To them, Ganondorf assassinated the Hylian king, took control of Hyrule, and that was that. They're not allowed in en masse but if they can prove they have a half decent resume then they're fine, it's whatever.

Additionally, there's the part during the Spirit Temple where Navi is a racist little shit. When you enter the room with the giant Sand Goddess statue as an adult, she says that the face of the statue looks "evil." And you've already seen this room as a child so when I got to that dialogue I expected her face to actually be different in the future and it wasn't. She was still just sitting there, minding her business. Nice one, Navi. And what that line of dialogue is in a Doylist context is a hint that you're supposed to desecrate the Gerudo's temple in order to progress. Nice one, Link. (Side note, were Koume Kotake and Nabooru just... locked in that back room until someone came in and desecrated the temple? Cause like. There wasn't a fire exit or anything that I could see). But what it is in a Watsonian context is a reflection on the general Hylian view of the Gerudo and their gods, despite the fact that Navi is a fairy and not a Hylian.

So in the Gerudo Valley, the Gerudo aren't really all that hostile towards you, and you endear yourself to them pretty quickly. Link and Navi are more hostile than the Gerudo as a whole. And most of this interpretation is buried under implications and orientalist writing, but it's still important context for later.

So, progressing on to Ganondorf's castle and the final fight, we the player see that Ganondorf looks different than he did in the child timeline, and even looks different from the phantom version of him from the forest temple, before he put on his mask. And you see that his ears are pointy now. And I don't put a lot of stock into the ear racist in Castle Town in the child timeline, I don't think Hylians have pointy ears literally to hear the voices of the gods. Maybe that's just me, because I came from botw where the plot was Zelda the Hylian woman with pointy ears who is literally the incarnation of a goddess cannot hear gods despite her pointy ears, and totk where Link is the only one at Lookout Landing who can speak to the Bargainer, and only Link and Jerrin are able to hear the voice of the Horned God, both of whom are gods and despite the fact that Lookout Landing is crawling with pointy eared Hylians, so obviously whatever's going on with all that it's got jack shit to do with ear shape. But I do think the ear racist guy is, dev intended, just spouting racist bullshit the Hylians came up with to make themselves feel superior. So the choice to make post-triforce-acquisition Ganondorf's ears pointy is an interesting one, because the only thing about Ganondorf that we know changed in the past seven years was that he went into the sacred realm and acquired a piece of the triforce. And I'm not the first person to say that the triforce gave Ganondorf divine madness. Hell, I even knew about that interpretation going in to the game, but what the choice to alter Ganondorf's ears in the future does is it implies a reason for why everything just started getting bad in the adult timeline recently.

Cause you can go back to the child timeline in oot and everything's... fine. Like Ganondorf is in power, we haven't gone back to before that happened because the Deku Tree is still dead af and Zelda isn't in the courtyard, and occasionally the people in Castle Town will mention some sort of commotion at the castle that happened recently, but he didn't gain the Hylian throne and immediately start freezing Zoras and terrorizing Kokiri and genociding Gorons.

And none of this is ever touched upon directly by the narrative, it is entirely within the realm of implications, but at the very least it was enough to change my opinion on oot era Ganondorf from "Look at how he's designed, how compelling can he be?" to "oh, wait, actually there is something really interesting in here under all the racist writing"

Oot ganondorf is not a character that is particularly well written, Nintendo dropped the ball from his inception to the present day, but even if I don't necessarily share that disappointment, because my expectations were different, now that I've played oot and know what the quality of this character's bones really is and have a better picture of what kind of character people were expecting I can at least understand why people were disappointed when totk ganondorf was nothing like oot era ganondorf.

[veggiecorner]

Honestly, I think that guy is just really autistic... and I say this as an autistic person. He obviously has no filter at all. I wish he would stop tagging people all the time and starting things constantly under every single post. There will never be the hard confirmation he wants, like you say totk and ss is as far as it will probably ever go.

Like, I really can't see them *ever* doing more than the strong subtext they put in totk. I'd be surprised if they even get *close* to doing something similar again. Having the princess move into his house and having Link bridal carry her shirtless, etc, was already honestly kind of explicit by E for Everyone Nintendo standards lol. I never even expected them to go so far with it. I expected them to have destroyed the hateno house with sky island debris, or had her live with Impa, or something like that. I wasn't expecting straight up fanservice for all the post-botw fanfiction and fanart made over the years. Someone on the development team was clearly browsing zelink on pixiv (well, some old totk interview even said that the team loved all the botw fanart and it kept them going through totk's development, so I'm like 99% sure that's actually true even lol). But they'll never just come out and say "this is canon" straight up into the camera and we need to accept that.

Honestly, I'm guessing they will probably make the next zelink more platonic if anything after how much they pushed them with ss and botw/totk. I'm a huge romantic zelink lover, botw/totk zelink is my favorite, but I honestly *want* the next versions to be platonic so that there is an actual contrast between versions of them between games (and ok, maybe part of me selfishly doesn't want my beloved enemies-ish-to-lovers tragic royalty x servant to domestic fluff zelink to be upstaged by a zelink that acts obnoxiously less subtle with their feelings and therefore have people call them "better" but that's irrelevant)

I haven't honestly looked into his account - but tbh he's not the only one? I just notice it with him a lot and i'm like "please please separate Zelda from shipping. u can appreciate Princess Zelda outside of her theorized relationship with Link" (this is more of like...a dig at people in general who make shipping be everything when it comes to a character..especially female characters because now I'm struggling to still do a deep dive into Mipha's character without people immediately screaming about how her relationship with link is canon)

anyways fandom behavior aside lowkey i agree? The thing is that even if developers came out and was like "We intended zelink to be canon" people are still gonna argue about it (like "wELL THEY DIDN'T HUG OR KISS ON SCREEN") so tbh its not even worth fighting about it - coming from a fire emblem fan lmao yes I still remember the sumia incident

I lowkey want the next "zelink" to be platonic because...idk the same reason as you. Changing it up. I miss WW zelda and Link's dynamic because to me they're besties and are goofy. if the next one is romantic then they better get a hell of a good story because they already covered the childhood romance and the dramatic slowburn with skyward sword and botw/totk (and tragic "what ifs" from OoT but you didn't hear it from me!!!!!). That being said I would be disappointed if it was on the level of Twilight Princess so idk some sort of connection between them would be nice

[bigbobbiehorror]

I am still thinking about TOTK's Ganondorf and how lacking he was compared to his previous incarnations.

So, okay. There's probably a bit of an unfair comparison between the totk!Ganon and the others, because Oot, WW and TP are all the same guy but different timelines, but as I've explained before about TP's Ganon, he suffers from lack or characterization INSIDE the game itself, whereas in OoT and WW he does get plenty more. Not a coincidence that those are the games in which he has the most interactions with their respective Links too, so... this is the part that I find frustrating about TOTK, because maybe he didn't need to interact a lot with Link, but heck, he could've interacted with Zelda, and that was some huge untapped potential that the dragon's tears lacked.

Granted, I believe that there's more Ganon characterization in TOTK than there was in TP, but by a very small margin. What do I mean by characterization anyway?

Let's take OoT's Ganondorf for example: he presents himself to the King of Hyrule to swear fealty, and he is pretty sharp and always seems to be one step ahead of Zelda and Link (they're children after all). All around, he's a despicable man, his own people don't like him very much. He doesn't seem interested in outright killing children though, but he definitely would if pushed to that point (as seen in Wind Waker). He also seems to be interested in fine horses and knows how to play the organ, which are not really important things to think about, but they give him a bit more of subtle characterization throughout the game.

WW works very well as a sequel, because even when he remains a despicable man, you can also sense a tiredness and melancholy in his words when he speaks of Hyrule before his final confrontation with the young heroes (and again, he is initially uninterested in killing Zelda and Link, being both children). I think it can be misguided to feel sorry for him in this game, because the Gods basically flooded Hyrule because he made it so unbearable to live in it for everyone, so at best, Ganondorf is pretty much a pathetic old guy in Wind Waker (and I kinda love that?), victim of his own stupid hubris, which doesn't really negate his melancholy. It means that he is still human after all.

And we know that TP's Ganondorf was caught and executed after trying to rise againt Hyrule, and he ends up manipulating Zant with the promise of power... but that's really all about it. He looks cool doing evil stuff, but nothing more than that. You don't learn much else about him in the entire game, and that's just pretty sad.

With TOTK we get that he's doesn't want to bow his head to Rauru, but it's made abundantly clear that he actually wants the power of the secret stones to usurp Rauru from his position of power. And maybe rule with an iron fist? You could say that this is pretty much recycling the same events of OoT, but the plot doesn't seem to add more to that. In fact, it even feels like less than OoT had to offer. Because he is a figure from the distant past, there's nothing except Zelda's memories to go on about what was Ganondorf like. There's no real back-and-forth interaction between him and other characters that aren't Rauru... It feels like such a waste to not even have him actually talk to Sonia or Zelda, or even just his fellow Gerudo.

I am secretly hoping that they end up releasing DLC in which they expand on him a bit more, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

[novelmonger]

My Ranking of the Zelda Games I've Played

My sisters were ranking Zelda games, so of course I had to join in and overthink everything. So here are my...hot takes? Maybe? I haven't played Four Swords, Minish Cap, Spirit Tracks, A Link Between Worlds, Triforce Heroes, Breath of the Wild, or Tears of the Kingdom.

Ocarina of Time In my opinion, the only Zelda game that fully achieves what I've always wanted from the franchise. It has an epic fantasy story, probably the best music (including music being an integral part of the gameplay and story), distinct and interesting character designs, challenging temples, and THE ACTUAL BEST COMPANION IN THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE NO CONTEST. This Link is also my favorite, as he seems one of the most serious and lonely ones, very fitting for the high stakes of his quest. As a bonus, this is also the only game where you get to switch between being a child and an adult, which makes for interesting gameplay and story ramifications. All the nostalgia is there, but it's not just nostalgia, either. I've played this game so many times (in the original version, Master Quest, and various randomizers) that I'm pretty confident I know at least 95% of everything there is to know about this game. It feels like home.

2. A Link to the Past The one after OoT that comes closest to the ideal. It still has that epic fantasy feel, despite the much simpler graphics - which look very pretty nonetheless, especially in the GBA remake. I think this game has one of the strongest beginnings, because instead of starting you out in a calm little village to ease you into the quest, this game starts you out with Link following his uncle through a torrential thunderstorm to Hyrule Castle, and then coming upon his uncle as he's dying and taking up his sword and shield to go save the princess! The music is excellent (Hyrule Castle a;ldkfjsd;lkfjds;klfj), the temples/dungeons are challenging, and I love the concept of going back and forth between the Light World and the Dark World. (Less cool is Link turning into a pink bunny the first time he goes to the Dark World, but still.) There's a reason this one is a classic. Also, this game has hands-down the best title in the entire franchise. Everyone else can go home.

3. Phantom Hourglass I kind of surprised myself at how high I ranked this one, especially since I've only played it once almost ten years ago. But this game surprised me so pleasantly, I still think of it fondly. First and foremost is my whole theory about how Ciela is actually Navi - that theory healed something that had been broken in my heart for over ten years; I didn't realize how much I needed that until I heard Ciela's cheery little, "Hey!" For that matter, I felt like the whole game was full of fun, endearing throwbacks - mostly to WW, of course, but to plenty of other Zelda games as well, like the island with all the Gorons that plays the Goron music we all know and love. I really enjoyed the twists in the story, simple as they were, and overall the whole thing felt like a bite-sized WW. I've heard a lot of people complaining about having to keep on going back to the Temple of the Ocean King over and over again, but that was actually one of my favorite parts of the game. It was challenging, but in a way that made me want to keep trying - which is more than I could say for most of the temples in the newer games. So, while the art style is not my favorite and the whole game is pretty far from my ideal of what a Zelda game should be, I enjoyed this game so much that I think it deserves to go in my top three.

4. Majora's Mask This is a very solid game, taking a lot of the things that make OoT great and expanding on them. I really like how many NPCs there are and how they all have a story and things you can do to help them. It's also cool to play as Child Link but be able to use a lot of items he couldn't in OoT, like the hookshot or riding on Epona. The music is excellent, and even the new ocarina songs are memorable and distinct. It's really fun and interesting to be able to turn into different races, and all the different effects that come from wearing the masks feels like a natural progression from the mask sidequest in OoT. So, when trying to be objective about this, I have to put this one pretty high on the list, but I just couldn't put it in my top three. The main reason for that is that I find the story very depressing, and the overall feel of the game oppressive. The story is framed by Link's search for Navi, which he doesn't succeed in. The primary theme of the game is death, and no matter how many times you turn back time to fix things again, you know that inevitably the moon is going to fall in three days. It's like a pointless, desperate cycle that you get stuck in, and even if you help someone out with their problems, you have to turn back time again and it's like you never did any of that. The majority of the game makes me feel sad, hopeless, or anxious. So even though I have to acknowledge this is a really good game, I can never really bring myself to replay it.

5. Skyward Sword I ended up really liking this game. Part of that was because of the improved motion controls since Twilight Princess, so it felt more like actually swinging a sword around instead of just twitching your hand (despite the tendency to dorkily run around with your sword sticking straight up in the air). I don't really like the characters as much - they tend to be either annoying or just kind of blah for the most part - but I can't deny that this game is just fun. I had fun with all of the bosses, especially Ghirahim and Demise. And speaking of which, the final battle against Demise/Ganon has got to be the most epic battle in the entire franchise! I have never felt cooler than I did summoning lightning to my sword and smiting the King of Evil with it. I also really liked the Silent Realm levels, as nerve-wracking as they can be. Unfortunately, the game also suffers from a lot of less-than-stellar elements, not least of which is Fi. Ugh, ugh, ugh, worst companion EVER >_< I also didn't really like the Loftwings; they didn't end up being as fun of a gameplay element as they sounded at first. Overall, the temples tended to be pretty but not as challenging as I wanted them to be. And then there's the Oocca x.x What on EARTH. So Skyward Sword is a really mixed bag for me.

6. Oracle of Seasons/Oracle of Ages Since these are very closely linked and I feel almost the same about both, I decided to lump them together. I really like the look and feel of these games; there's something very nostalgic and comforting about them. Oracle of Seasons was actually the first Zelda game I ever played a bit of, and it intrigued me so much that's how I got into the franchise in the first place. So it's kind of funny that I actually only got around to playing these games a couple years ago. But they ended up being really fun, with interesting gameplay and good music. Points get taken off for not having a ton of story, and actually requiring you to trade rings through the Link Cable if you want to explore everywhere.

7. The Wind Waker This is another game that's really pretty solid, but I just didn't care for it much personally. I don't like the Toon Link art style, and didn't find the storyline that compelling. Zelda being Tetra was a really fun way to switch things up, but I didn't like how her personality did a complete 180 once she found out the truth about herself. It would have been more interesting if her piratey side showed through more even as she was trying to be a princess. I did enjoy the world, and it was fun to explore on a boat instead of on foot or on horseback. But it didn't feel much like a Zelda game - somehow, most of the game feels less Zelda-like to me than PH, even though they take place in the same world. Also, while there was some good music in the game, I hated the Wind Waker songs. None of them were memorable, so it was really hard to keep track of which ones did what.

8. Link's Awakening It's kind of a shame that this game goes so far down my list, because it was the first Zelda game I ever owned. I didn't realize what I was getting into, I just wanted to swing a sword around after trying out Oracle of Seasons. Story-wise, I really don't like this game. There's such a dissonance between the cutesy, silly adventures you go on…in pursuit of waking up a flying whale who is dreaming the entire island and all of its inhabitants into existence, so as soon as you wake the Wind Fish up to escape the island, all the places you've become familiar with and all the friends you've made just go *poof*. Yeah, 'cause that's not depressing! The whole game just left me feeling weird and unsettled. If you don't think about any of the implications of what you're doing, though, it's a fun, cute little game, a lot like the Oracle games. I found it much harder than those, though that might have been because I was much younger and less experienced of a gamer when I played this one. I will say that the music in this game is fantastic. I used to go to the square where Marin stands around singing the Ballad of the Wind Fish, and just sit there to let that tune soothe me.

9. Twilight Princess On paper, this one should be one of my favorites, because it seems like one of the games that hits closest to my ideal of what a Zelda game should be, with an epic fantasy story and the fundamental elements of Link going to the castle to rescue Princess Zelda from Ganondorf. But the reason this goes so far down on my list is that I was expecting it to be that ideal, and it fell really short of the mark, so the disappointment was much worse than games like SS, where it didn't look much like my ideal at all, so I wasn't expecting it to be. The concept of Link turning into a wolf is really cool, and I do like how the Twilight Realm is kind of like the Dark World, but distinctly different. Midna is probably the second-best companion; I like how snarky she can be, and she gets more backstory than most companions do. The climax is pretty cool, and I love how Zelda actually takes part in the battle - until SS blew it out of the water, I might have said TP had the best final showdown. There were also some cool new items - the Spinner being my favorite. But I really didn't like the drab color scheme that made everything look the same sort of muddy brown. Instead of beautiful, fantastical locations, everything just kind of blurs together in my mind, till I can barely remember any of it. I also couldn't stand most of the NPCs, who were either annoying, ugly, or both. None of the music was memorable except for melodies they reprised from previous games, and in some cases (like Kakariko Village) they made it so much worse I wish they'd done something completely different instead. And don't even get me started on the awful off-key howling you have to do! When you compare it to the beautiful tunes you can play on the ocarina or the harp…. Yeah, I was mostly just disappointed with this game and never want to play it again.

10. The Legend of Zelda/The Adventure of Link I probably shouldn't even put these on the list, because I never got anywhere close to beating them, but I have played some of them, and the reason I stopped was because I realized I didn't like them at all. I appreciate what they gave us, because if not for the success of these two games, none of the ones I love would exist. But…I just find NES-era games to be practically unplayable, sorry :/ The graphics look really ugly to me, and the gameplay is too clunky. It's gotta be SNES-era or later.

[marenwithanm]

Started playing windwaker recently despite the 4 other Zelda games I still haven't finished, and MAN does this link got personality! Instantly, you can tell so much about him. Despite having the most expressive face to ever exist, he really doesn't talk much. Like I know the whole "links never talk" but I find that untrue, in some games it's clear that links talking, but the players not privy to it. On particular, I'm thinking about how, in the oracle games, link is talking to some zora about jabu jabu, and the king reacts with "hes not just 'some big fish' hes very important, show some respect!" Clearly, link said something there bc of the characters reactions, but the player doesn't get to see it. (not to mention The Funny Joke™ that link tells where he's clearly talking)

I don't think that's the case in this game. Maybe he says a few words occasionally, but the characters usually react how you would if link said nothing.

Now, don't get me wrong, not talking does NOT stop this link from having ✨ personality ✨. He puts his hands on his belt when talking to people like some tiny green cowboy, that's hilarious to me. He also tries very hard to avoid telling his grandma what happened to Aryll, she has to weddle it out of him. That says a lot about this link, I feel like he's the type to try and take on all his problems alone.

He's also very stubborn and cares a lot about his family. The scene where he waves goodbye to his grandma until he can't see her anymore makes me 😭, but also just the fact that he's willing to a) join a pirate ship and b) get shot out of a canon for Aryll says a lot about him.

(also, because I'm obsessed with this theory and will put it in whenever I possibly can, I don't think windwaker link is descended from the hero of time, I think he's descended from the hero of the minish from minish cap. The outfit that "the hero" used to wear looks nothing like ocarina of time link's clothes, but it looks EXACTLY like minish cap link's clothes. Like, hang on,

Compare this (oot)

To this (ww)

Not even remotely similar. However, if you compare windwaker to minish cap:

Exact same. And that's not even to mention the fact that the family heirloom shield from windwaker looks exactly like the tiny shield Zelda gives you in minish cap. Yes, I know they made wind waker before minish cap, yes I think they intended it to be connected with ocarina of time not minish cap, but screw them, I make the rules now)

Anyways, tldr, wind waker link has a boatload of personality right off the bat (and is totally descended from minish cap link)