#it’s even worse when trans men/mascs do it because they think they are one of the good ones

[autisticsupervillain]

Hahaha, No. Not remotely. I'm saying they think that. Because the mere existence of people who aren't in The Group is an attack on The Group. As far as The Group is concerned, The Group is always the underdog, the righteously oppressed, etc. It's how these cults justify their own existence. They're not right, but once you're that deep into the process, you stop caring what objective reality has to say about your beliefs.

But that's a late phase of the process. The process starts with "who can we convince to join The Group?" That's what my whole point is about. Certain groups within the left movement haven't really reconsidered how they see men in their understanding of the world and that makes it easier for right wing groups to get that foot in the door. Be that in the form of TERFs saying "see, all men are disgusting evil monsters, join us to stop them" or misogynistic white supremacists groups saying "see, they think all men are monsters, join us and we'll stop them". The fact that both groups horseshoe around to just hating women isn't a coincidence. There has to be A Problem that The Group can convince you it alone can solve. Whether that problem actually exists is an optional step, as they frequently take broader systemic issues and blame them on a convenient scapegoat to spread hate. Buuuuuut, making it look like that problem exists by not actually confronting your own groups biases can make the issue worse and makes the bad guys jobs easier.

The point of both my tags and the original post is that people keep misunderstanding and misinterpreting feminism and leftism as just saying "man bad". Even some feminists and leftists themselves. You might know intellectually that that's not what the movement is, but you can still have some bias there. What the left is actually saying, and what needs to be completely internalize to make progress, is "men are systemically given power over women, are encouraged to abuse that power, and are socially and systemically punished for not doing so and we need to stop that".

There are honest to god people who say they support trans people and then say they hate men. They are people who say they love all queer people and then say they hate men. Hell, there are people in leftist spaces who straight up won't acknowledge trans peoples chosen identities, be they masc, fem, enby, or otherwise, because they "don't pass" and look too much like a man. Body hair, fatness, balding, those "immutable traits" he talks about that are gendered towards men. There is a problem with leftist people not examining their internal biases regarding men and I tell you that having experienced it myself. Hell, I'm not even a man and I've experienced it.

That's a lot of words to say one important thing. Leftism does not hate men. In any way. And any leftist that thinks it does is a TERF in the making. But, when you don't confront your own biases and give them impression that it does hate men through your actions, you make it monumentally easy for bad faith actors to paint you as "The Problem" that they alone can solve.

What we need to do going forward is confront the actual problem going forward. To make it clear that the problem is not just sexist men, but the systems in society that encourage and foster that behavior. Because once we're able to address the actual problems that torment people, TERFS and Right Wingers will run out of people to exploit and won't be able to paint themselves as the Solution to a Problem that they invented.

Will that do anything to stop the people in those groups who have just always been knowingly terrible? No. But it'll give them less power and less tools to exploit other people into their cause. Such terrible people will exist forever, plain and simple, but there's always more that can be done to improve ourselves and make the world better so that they can't build up that platform.

But, for arguments sake, lets say I'm reading this wrong. None of the problems with leftist approach to rhetoric and progress exist and leftists in no way contributed to the way Right Wing cults push their agenda. In that case...... you're making fun of a guy for not fully automatically unlearning everything he'd been lead to believe after getting his life together and trying to put Nazi ideologies behind him. Which makes you a spectacular asshole. So, whether the guy has any point to his rant is kinda pointless when your response makes you the dickhead in the argument regardless.

what is this "as someone who escaped the alt right pipeline" failpost I've seen so many people vague about

[barzfrommarz]

thinking abt how trans men, transmascs or anyone else in the queer community with a masculine identity are always targeted and made fun of by cis people or other queer people. We are always stereotyped to be the “soft he/they trans boy who likes cavetown with that one picrew as their pfp and is super cringe and awkward (with a dash of ableism towards autistic trans men/mascs)” or all the other stereotypes out there. I never see trans women/transfemmes/feminine queer people get made fun of this way because they know ppl with call them out for it. People don’t call it out with trans men/mascs or other masculine queer people because it’s ok to be transphobic towards us because we’re just big scary privileged men to them. We cannot be opressed in their eyes so it’s okay to make fun of us and stereotype us

[genderqueerdykes]

trans men and women learn a lot from each other when we get close and it's a wonderful thing. it's okay to be dysphoric about manhood. it's okay to be dysphoric about womanhood. it's okay to not like he/him pronouns, to not like she/her pronouns. it's okay to not like how strangers gender you. it's okay to talk about these things with each other, to share mutual disgust, to see how it affects one another and how it shapes our identities and experiences.

it's okay to talk about the things that make you uncomfortable together. it's not invalidating each other's experiences to have conversations like saying "i'm so tired of being seen as a man no matter what, and being around people who treat me like a man" to a trans man and having the trans man respond by saying "i feel the same way about people who treat me like a woman" and agree to not project one's trauma on to the other

it's okay to be vulnerable. it's okay to admit when we don't understand certain parts of each others experiences, too. we do NOT have to act like experts and like we've "read the book" on what another person's gender is. even if we think we know a lot about that gender, we don't know everything, because we don't know everyone. literally. it's okay to go "i don't understand, but I'll call you whatever you identify as." and be receptive without knowing exactly what they mean.

we don't understand many things in life. that's fine. it's okay to just listen and not talk for once. you don't have to try to speak as though you've lived as a trans man when you're a trans women, and you don't have to speak for trans women if you're a trans man. we are allowed to advocate for our own experiences and simultaneously listen to other queer experiences and respect their boundaries, spaces, and needs.

there is a lot to learn about the challenges that trans women face, the unique struggles that come with some being raised as boys and the troubles that come with that, being seen as a feminine boy, being subjected to homophobia- getting called faggots and other slurs. some were raised as girls, some are intersex, and some are afab or other birth sexes, and the mixing of masculinity and femininity and cause a lot of issues when it comes to how society treats that person

there are lots of conversations that have to be listened to when it comes to the transmasculine experience and how nobody but transmasc people can articulate what it's like to live as a transmasculine person. no one can speculate on it, because it is such a unique experience. it is a complicated matter of several different types of prejudice that no one else can quite understand where it comes from and how it feels unless they've been there

it is so deeply rooted in misogyny, where people treat us like "stupid, confused women," like we're "destroying children" that we're 'destroying our bodies', that our hormones make us "unstable, irritable and emotional," and that we are unreliable narrators. we get called hysterical. we get told we're "ruining a pretty girl" or wasting our "pretty" features. we get lectured about how we need to be attractive and how testosterone will ruin that by our own parents. we get told we can't dress masc because it will make us "ugly" or "butch" or "dykes".

people hate it when we bind our breasts, cut our hair, hide our curves, change our gait, and stop wearing makeup. they lose a "girl" to ogle and become enraged, upset or uncomfortable. while the transmasc person is trying to navigate life in a way where they don't feel objectified, it becomes a matter of even worse objectification because now antimasculism is introduced into the mix and the experience becomes transandrophobia.

people are so hateful and bitter toward manhood and masculinity. people ask us "why would you EVER want to be a man? NOBODY wants to be a man." they tell us "men are ugly, violent, and mean." people tell us that men are sexual predators, that they're inherently abusive. people tell us that testosterone makes people ugly. they tell us that men aren't or can't be queer. they tell us we can't be a feminine man. they tell us we can't be men at all, that transmasculinity isn't even a thing, that transmanhood isn't a thing. we even get told that the only way to be trans is to be transfeminine, and what we are experiencing is a delusion, hysteria, or a result of us being hormonal from being on our periods and/or HRT.

when we listen to each others' experiences we realize how people who are othered by society are treated. we learn that not only we experiencing this, but so is everyone around us. we do not have to try to make one side's experience more important than another's. we can hold each other up by having conversations and being vulnerable about what's going on, how we're being treated, how we want to be treated, and how the community is failing us and how we can do better.

we deserve to have conversations. there's a lot to learn, a lot to laugh about, a lot to relate to, and a lot to be curious about. these conversations are good to have. it's good to admit when you know nothing about transmasculinity or transfemininity or any other identity. it's okay to ask respectful questions. it's okay to tell people when you appreciate their identities, and them explaining it to you. it's okay to just listen. it really is. we have to learn to listen it's not something that can be avoided perpetually for life. listening to someone else's conversation does not erase yours, it does not take it away from the equation. they exist together.

[gor3sigil]

Little things about being transmasc and/or a trans man:

As trans men and/or transmasc, we always are told to "do better" than cis men, and at the same time to conform to the patriarchal model of masculinity (white, able bodied, strong, thin, necer show emotions etc) to be seen as men/masc.

But you have to understand that some trans men don't want to perform that type of masculinity or CAN'T altogether.

Furthermore, our sexual orientations are often weaponized against us. If we love men, we're called slurs or in more feminist spaces. we're told that we're just women with extra steps, and if we love women, we're asked why we can't just be lesbians or told that we are doing patriarchy all over again. And if you dare to identify gay, you're told that no gay men like p*ssies, and if you dare to identify as a lesbian, you can't because no lesbians like men. And that is without considering the very broad sexuality/romantic spectrum, where your transness is basically a weapon too (aromantic ? Yeah, figure, you're trans and confused. Bi ? Yeah, figure, you're trans and can't decide. Asexual ? Yeah, figure, you're trans or WORSE you're afab and traumatized and so on and so forth).

Gender nonconforming trans men/transmascs are relentlessly called trenders within the community or asked why they even bother to transition. In the outside world, we are often read as a threat and assaulted because of it. But if you are gender conforming, you'll have smirky cis women tell you how you just fantasised about being a Big Strong Man and are just matrixed by patriarchy or too traumatized to live as a woman.

Want to transition medically ? Oh, but T is a BAD hormone that does BAD thing like make you gain WEIGHT and gives you ACNE and makes you GROSS. On the weight topic I could write a book about the horrible fatphobia within the community because I kid you not, I have been a girl teen with EDs who hung out in pr* an* forums and I've seen some shit in transmascs groups and passing tips that have a real resemblance to what I saw back then. Same for transmascs/trans men fitness groups.

Don't want to transition medically ? Lol theyfab. Like so much a woman. Very lady like with a bonus of bringing the movement down.

When it comes to inside the community, we can't talk about specific issues without being shushed, intersex transmascs, and trans men face a LOT of hardships and are insulted. I remember a friend of mine who is an intersex trans man receiving death threats and got told to [redacted] himself when he talked about his experiences as an intersex trans man BY TRANS PEOPLE.

Bipoc trans men and transmascs are always confronted to the white standards of passing coupled with the rampant racism within and outside of the community.

And one thing I can not not bring up: I think a lot of people forget that we can't mourn our dead. Why ? Because these past years, transmascs and trans men have been forgotten from TDOR lists. I remember seeing Twitter threads from trans men adding them because we don't even KNOW when someone has died or they are deemed as women and the death is treated like a feminicide. And it has been a constant.

We can basically never please no matter what we do.

That's my 2 cents on the transandrophobia because I feel like it needs to be said. If you still think that trans men and transmasc individuals don't face specific issues, think again.

[trans-androgyne]

but what is WRONG about the statement “men and masculinity are privileged above women and femininity, so transmascs must be privileged above transfems”? that is sound logic, and it’s not disconnected from reality, because reality supports the idea that men and masculinity are privileged above women and femininity. even among trans people. that statement means “there is a particular scrutiny and struggle that women face that men do not”, not “men and masculine people aren’t ever oppressed and trans men don’t experience transphobia”. you seem to think that the issue is that not enough transfems/people are listening to what transmascs are saying about their own experiences, but when it comes to transfems talking about how their experiences with oppression are more severe, it’s perfectly ok for you to not listen to them?

Incorrect. The reality is that isn’t true for everyone, which is what we’ve been trying to demonstrate over and over. “Men and masculinity are privileged” when it’s cis men. Masculinity and identification with manhood is not encouraged above femininity for women or people believed to be women. Femininity for me would be gender conformity. Masculinity makes me transgender. And we are kicked in the teeth for it constantly, by both cis people and our own queer/trans community. All the worst stereotypes of both men and women are applied to us, as is true for trans women. If that supposedly common sense logic copy + pasted from narrow cisfeminist understandings were to be taken literally, transmascs would be privileged over cis women too gender-wise because masculinity is privileged over femininity, and we just Happen to experience transphobia with zero gendered oppression.

I am listening. I have been listening and agreeing and supporting for years and years and years. But other people speaking up made me realize my problems mattered too even if they didn’t fit into the narrative. And now this is my response. Now I want to be heard. I am telling you that my masculinity—my queer, my trans masculinity—is not fucking privileged above shit. I was nearly kicked out over it; I have been made to feel like I am ugly, worthless, and an inherently worse person for it; I am excluded from spaces I need resources from for it; I feel invisible in my community for it. Queer/trans masculinity gets you fucking harassed and assaulted — ask butches! Ask transmascs who don’t pass! Or the stealth ones who suddenly fail to, a nightmare situation for many of us. Look at the numbers for me — trans men and transmasc non-binary people have the highest rates of sexual assault of any gender category. It can and does happen to many due to being transmasc (including someone I know personally) even sometimes taking the route of corrective rape with the intention of “detransitioning” them. I feel less safe since I’ve started transitioning, not more. Before, I wondered if I was being stared at since I was pretty and had long hair. I would get catcalled. It felt gross. Now I wonder if I’m being stared at because I’m visibly queer. I still get catcalled. I feel less gross and more afraid.

We also experience things transfems and cis women don’t! “There is a particular scrutiny and struggle that trans men and mascs face that other people (typically) do not” that’s precisely what I have been trying to convey. And that’s exactly what our tag is full of. The belief that our oppression is “less severe” is mistaken, you just haven’t heard our voices enough. It is the result of our historical and compounding invisibility. We are speaking up and begging you to listen.

[dropoutfailure]

ok, enough wholesome dadson. time to sexualize terrible fathers. (cw for: dadson incest + FtM son POV + transphobia / misgendering / fetishizing / forcemasc)

transphobic dad: doesn't approve of you transitioning or taking T, but isn't stopping you and doesn't seem turned off by the changes, even after you pass consistently as a man. doesn't know how T even works, always lowkey curious about the changes. he does like that you're so much hornier on T and don't even have periods anymore. tugs at your facial hair (ow? wtf :/) and goes "huh? it's real? I thought you drew it on every morning!" with a hearty laugh. dad joke? he might have actually thought so. backhanded praise, mean jokes at your expense, and moments where he genders you correctly, by accident.

thought you would eventually change your mind and give up transitioning "when you realise that being a man is hard," as if he's not the one making it hard. he might actually think of you as a son at some point, but he was never taught to apologize, he's "always right," he's stubborn, so he will keep calling you a daughter because a father can't show weakness. wants to call you homophobic slurs sooo bad, but that would be admitting defeat.

gets angry when you bring up surgery bc he likes to squeeze your tits and fuck your pussy. won't do any anal because it's gay. and clearly, he's isn't, he says. definitely closeted.

trans boy chaser dad: for better or for worse, only took an interest in your life when he found out you're a trans guy, fixed his relationship with you by treating you more like a date than as his son.

excited, touchy-feely, even creepy. eager to please. just pathetically horny for the way your body's changing from T - he won't misgender you. you get aggressively reaffirmed to the point of it getting annoyingly patronizing actually. regardless, he fucks you hard, encouraging you to moan with your cracking voice, and is too horny to feel bad about the incest. it's a welcome change from the previous emotional distance, but you feel used, like he's taking advantage of your newly high libido.

fixated on your body and everything "clockable," would rather you didn't get any surgery... says you're already perfect as is, from just testosterone... it does feel nice that he takes some sort of pride in having a son now, fully embracing you, the way he finds even all the awkward changes (sparse facial hair, voice cracks etc) not just endearing, not just attractive, but really fucking hot. and it's a relief for your body which craves that release. but. dad might just completely lose interest a few years into T, if you pass consistently.

bisexual, he says. but of course not into cis men.

transmed dad: thinks he knows what's best for your body, forcemascs you in his own ideals, pushing you to work hard to speed up your transition, to become a "real" man. you were so happy that dad accepted you being a trans guy so wholeheartedly and proudly, but the acceptance seems to have turned into overbearing surveillance...

dad insists on doing your T injections himself, because he doesn't trust that you'll actually do them. "no son of mine will be a fucking embarrassing softboy pansy who never transitions for real, have some dignity, god damn it! either you transition fully or you don't transition at all!" ...he pushes you to consider top and bottom surgery asap, to become a "real man," regardless of what you might want. he very excitedly looks forward to the day you can top him with your real cock, like a son should. :)

he makes you like anal because that's how real men do it. you're absolutely not allowed to derive any pleasure from anywhere but your ass and T-dick, and the phantom sensation of a strapon. he's good at working your T-dick though, it's all almost worth it just for that...

love, validation, and praise only when you've "earned it." if you fail to live up to his strict expectations, the things he says fucking hurt. misgenders you as punishment and threatens to withhold your testosterone "since you want to stay a girl so bad."

......

so, all of these options leave you feeling unsatisfied and degraded in one way or another!! yippee! no, there's no option for a Normal About Trans Men And Masculinity Dad, this is the Terrible Fathers dadson poll. you must choose.

[velvetvexations]

As well intentioned as shinigami eyes is, I genuinely feel like it was always doomed to fail because no marginalized community is ever going to agree 100% of the time about what counts as bigotry. I have seen SO many transradfems on twitter marked green despite literally having "radfem" in their bio and regularly interacting with accounts marked as red who are actual open transphobes just because they're trans, so apparently being a trans person makes you exempt from perpetuating transphobia in their book? But even that is applied unfairly, because I have seen trans people who are the subject of harassment campaigns over stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with transphobia get spam reported as "transphobic" until they end up falsely marked red and afaik there isn't a way to appeal that, they usually have to put "I got marked as red during a harassment campagin I'm not transphobic" in their bios just to get people to leave them alone.

Imo it can be kinda helpful, and I mean I do also see people who are vocal about supporting trans men/mascs and fighting radical feminism no matter where it comes from also get marked green even now, so clearly there are some people behind the scenes with their heads on straight, but you really ought to look into any person or platform you're unsure about yourself rather than trust it completely, as with any power structure, because it is weak to exploitation and clearly some of the people who do the "vetting" don't think radical feminism is inherently transphobic OR don't think being a transmed or posting horrid shit about trans men/mascs is inherently transphobic OR are willing to break the "we only judge based on trans opinions nothing else" rule to attack someone who posted something they happen to disagree with on another subject OR all three so yeah, vet people yourself, it's the only way to be sure.

Don't blindly trust power structures ever no matter what, but especially don't blindly trust ones that have proven themselves exploitable and cannot be held accountable for any harm they may cause.

It's existence assumes a sense of teamwork and mutual aid that leftists are notoriously bad at, even worse because when there are concrete goals to work toward progress can be made but this is so vibes based and just meant to paint a label on literally everyone on the internet, so it's use is in practice incoherent.

[faggy--butch]

"I'll also say that this is sometimes supported by the trans man creators, like Jammidoger. It's not just the trans women, it's not just the essayists […]" & "you should feel gender affirmed from the violence done to you because that's just how men are actually".

Thing is, until I found trans men/masc people talking about transmisandry/transandrophobia online, every time I tried interacting with my local trans community, especially with other trans men/masc people, has included them all parroting or agreeing with the above sentiments, and it's why I stopped going to my local support group or interacting with them at all. Hearing those things from some well-known and respected trans women and men in our local community and getting pushback when I wanted to talk about trans masc issues, was just so disappointing.

Which is why I'm happy Jessie made that video and came to the conclusion she did. I left a comment just about my opinion on the matter, that while yes I've felt left out on her videos and wish she included our perspective more often, I also remind myself that she and her co-writer are both trans femme. So I don't take it as intentionally or even unintentionally leaving us out, it's a side effect of people writing what they know, however, that's exactly why I watch her, to get a better perspective for myself of trans women/femme issues.

But there were also lots of trans men and masc people in the comments who said a lot more about what our issues are and the harm it does to exclude us, how we do face similar or even the same kind of violence for the same reasons as trans women and femme people, and that often, her exclusion of us in her videos (especially the Barbie one) is adding onto the already exhaustive history of transandrophobia from within the trans community. While I've not changed or added to my comment, in the face of those others, it felt lacking, but I'm also really kinda exhausted at this point, since I've been fighting against biphobia from both cishet and other queer people most of my life now, so in the face of transandrophobia, I just have no more fight in me and have resorted to elevating the voices of others who do.

Sorry for the rant, you don't have to respond, I guess I just wanted to say thank you for getting a ball rolling and here's hoping it goes farther than other attempts before this.

Hey! I think I actually saw your comment, I thought about it a lot too which is is cool that it's bringing me full circle here but I do also agree in part that because they are trans femmes their thoughts and opinions are bound to be almost exclusively from their perspective. I do also watch for that perspective in part as well, but I feel that bigger trans creators who talk about trans topics, need to remember that there isn't just that one kind.

They have the opportunity to make a difference, to give others a voice, a voice which severely lacking in these spaces. I'm not going to wholesale blame them for perpetuating transandrophobia or anything, but if you're making a video on trans experiences and then leave out a crucial part of that experience, or at worse, uncritically repeat those same ideas as a bigger creator with lots of followers, it can have a serious negative impact on members of that groups and reinforces it, transandrophobia. This reminds me of the video that Abigail Thorne did called Beauty, Food, Mind. A lot of that video is her talking about how fatphobia affects HER, a thin beautiful actress, and doesn't really even mention much of fat struggles, or get fat perspectives, and she gained a lot of criticism within the fat youtube community for it because she had an opportunity and the didn't take it, making fatphobia only about thin people instead. I will be honest, I haven't had much of an irl queer community, I have my friends and I have gone out and interacted, but I'm disabled, and poor. I don't have the chance to go to any sort of community events or anything other than maybe a drag show every now and again especially here were I live now, I moved and am back in my home state, so it does make me nervous to even seek out and find a local community. online it's easier to brush off that kind of thing, not being considered or being talked down to or ignored, and tbh gaslit, but in real life? In my own home area, in my real domain?

I'm not sure I'd know how to cope with that rn, especially because I too have had some, let's just say not great experiences with in few irl trans people semi community type groups.

Lots of people are hurting and they take it out on each other, so I feel like I have to put on a persona, or be more femme to even be taken seriously and that sucks. So yeah, it's a breath of fresh air to be able to talk about transandrophobia online with other men and I'm happy happy happy we have this, but It is disappointing and I think it shows historically why trans men have tended to keep to ourselves.

[spacelazarwolf]

I really hate how often neo ra/df/ems will go on and on about how trans fem's transitions are waaaaaay more difficult and they're waaaaaay less likely to pass, but if a trans masc dared to make any similar comparisons, they'd be fucking crucified.

There are a lot of feelings I have around sex-based discrimination and the difficulties of a masculinizing transition. On one hand, I don't think comparing struggles like that is useful (i.e. trans women have harder transitions).

On the other hand, I feel like the reality of the situation is actually quite the opposite for many people (everyone acknowledges that testosterone makes your voice drop and you grow hair, but nobody seems to want to acknowledge hysterectomy vs orchi, voice training is still often needed, electrolysis for phallo, the fact that bottom surgery is usually multi-staged [even metoidioplasty is sometimes 2 stages] with a lot of moving parts and far worse scarring, top surgery is almost a necessity for passing whereas not every trans fem wants top surgery + scars are easier to hide, face masculinization is far less common w/ fewer options, puberty begins earlier in perisex people AFAB and puberty blockers don't always allow for full height to be achieved bc they don't typically allow you to start testosterone until you're about 15 even IF you were a "classic" trans-since-3-years-old kinda case, the extreme body horror that is accidental pregnancy and abortion and menstruation when that's dysphoric vs not being able to carry a pregnancy just feels like an insulting comparison sometimes and I've had multiple trans women call me inconsiderate for expressing horror at getting my bodily rights taken away bc "that triggers my dysphoria", testosterone is a scheduled substance and has more difficult administration methods than simply a pill, etc.)

And so I bite my tongue and try to be the better person, because stooping to that low doesn't help anything. But at the same time it's so extremely frustrating to be told that you "have it better" when, considering the facts, it REALLY feels like the opposite. There's this level of bitterness around that that I am DESPERATELY trying to resolve within myself. I have a therapist. I know it's projection. I'm working on my own bullshit. But please tell me I'm not alone in feeling this way? I just wish they'd stop with that rhetoric and realize just how difficult the average trans masc transition truly is

yeah it's really frustrating for ppl to present Trans Women's Experiences and Trans Men's Experiences as diametrically opposed, with one experience being Eternal Pain And Inescapable Suffering and the other being Barely A Blip On The Life Radar. and while i understand it's coming from a place of pain, i've also experienced a lot of trans women shutting me down when i try to talk about how abortion rights affect me. back when i was first dipping my toe into trans spaces, i was friends with a trans woman who told me it was transmisogynistic of me to want to transition because "trans women would kill to have been born in your body." and while it absolutely comes from a different place than when cis men try to assert control over me and there's not the same power dynamic, it's still a complete stranger feeling entitled to tell me what to do with my body because of the sex i was assigned at birth. it's frustrating to have people i'm supposed to be in community with play into the same sexist bullshit that other people, regardless of gender, have been holding over my head my whole life, feeling like they own my body bc women and ppl who are forcibly assigned the role of women in society are seen as public property. our bodies aren't our own. everyone feels entitled to comment on them and touch them and make decisions about them. and it sucks when it comes from other people who should understand how that feels.

and like. obviously this idea that trans men's transition is so much easier than trans women's is unhelpful bc 1. there is no one particular way for trans men to transition, 2. not everyone who transitions in the way typically associated with trans men is a trans man, 3. it doesn't take into account how disability, race, ethnicity, etc. play into people's experiences before, during, and after transition, and 4. it's just not a fucking competition????? the fact that a disabled black trans man is going to be more systemically oppressed in society than a wealthy white trans woman doesn't mean trans men as a category are Objectively More Oppressed than trans women. bc gender is like. the worst possible way to try to gauge a group's place within the system. bc at this point, gender is not the most powerful system, race is. and i feel like a fuck ton of people really do not recognize that.

another thing that has bugged me for as long as i've been in trans spaces is this bizarre attitude that trans women are doomed to this miserable life of clockability and will never be able to pass as cis women thus they must accept that their life will be nothing but pain and suffering. and that's just very much not true! i know plenty of trans women who "pass" or who are happy with their bodies, who have jobs they love and friends and family who love them, who have a community that supports and celebrates them. and it has just always rubbed me the wrong way that people think they're helping trans women by presenting their existence as Inevitably Miserable when all it does is terrify closeted trans girls who think they're better off never coming out or transitioning, or better off dying. like. we have to understand that these narratives we create, the idea of the perpetually suffering trans woman and the lonely isolated trans man, are absolutely driving people to suicidal ideation. and if we give a shit about trans people, we should be changing these narratives.

[semi-imaginary-place]

oh look fandom hates when I speak the truth again so I'm just going to repost this everywhere.

Most people do not understand Claude, and the loud ones especially misunderstand his character. Claude was never slutty meme frat boy. Joe Ziega made this worse. Things have actually gotten better after Hopes as Claude in Hopes is in line with Claude in Houses just overt characterization instead of implied.

The Marianne support is especially interesting because Claude for all his charm is sooo clumsy at interpersonal relationships. He knows he hurt Marianne and doesn't know how to fix it so the best he can come up with is to make the relationship transactional, he learned one of her secrets so he gives up one in exchange. He has leverage and vulnerability over her so he gives up some of his secrets and becomes vulnerable for her because in his minds that helps make up for things, makes things fair again. 

Claude's like an onion many layers. He's been hurt by people too many times to be vulnerable with others but he also likes people and genuinely wants to help them which leads to this contradicting behavior of wanting friends and to be loved and understood while also being terrified of genuine emotional intimacy. Also, like Claude always hated Rhea he implies in Houses he'd rather have her dead and Fodlan would be better without her.

For Felix I get into details later but I saw a weirdly high proportion of Felix depictions in fandom being trans or asian like higher than any other character Even the actually brown characters like Petra or Dedue or Claude had less non-white "screentime" in fandom than the canonically fantasy European Felix (Petra in general is woefully underrepresented in this fandom), which was paired with a lot of transphobic and racist stereotypes. And then there's the disturbing prevalence of homophobic stereotypes when Felix shows up in fandom. 

Felix is like a magnet for homophobia, transphobia, and racism. Fandom disproportionately )like more than any other character I have seen) makes him every gay, trans, and asian stereotype under the sun (why people race swap him I will never know). And what's worse is that these people think they're woke leftists without ever examining their own bigotry and start crying screaming sending death threats when confronted about it. Sis do some self reflection on how the way you ship really is just latent fetishizing of gay, trans, and brown men. 

And you know it's controversial because I get downvoted into hell every time I say this by people who lack media literacy, won't self reflect on their own subconscious bigotry, and won't accept the truth. Which just means I should say it more.

fe3h fandom often tacks on a lot of bigoted stereotypes onto Felix instead of engaging with his actual in game characterization (well that last part is a problem of fandom in general but I digress). For example in gay ships Felix tends to more often be the submissive, bottom, feminine, trans, or non white partner. All of which is fine but starts getting suspicious when all these traits are conflated with each other and even more suspicious when this is contrasted with Felix's partner (I think Sylvain and Dimitri are the most popular ones?) which is usually a dominant, top, cis, and white man. Again nothing wrong with any if this but suspicious that this seems to be the most common (by a large margin) characterization in fandom. To break it down it plays into classic right wing talking points that how in same gender relationships one partner is the "man" and one partner is the "woman". Again fem/masc pairs are fine its in combination with the rest of the stuff. Next is the classic transphobic talking point about how transmen aren't real men or as masculine as "real" men, which is the justification for corrective rape. Next is the classic racist stereotype that asian men inferior to white men by being more feminine (aka lesser, because racists also tend to hate women) and less masculine than again "real" (white) men leading to being pushed out of most career paths and only allowed lesser jobs like laundromat. And again nothing wrong with any of these traits individually or in combination when when it happens every time with little variation and all people can do is parrot right wing bigot talking points, these something fishy.

Oh hey I forgot the misogyny. Like a lot of this loops back to (what I presume is) internalized misogyny in the authors and artists, because all the points I talk about above in some way intersect back to the basis of misogyny that female is bad. And it isn't which is why I'm always confused why the (female dominated) fandom clings so hard to misogyny. I noticed in fanfiction before I just stopped and blacklisted the whole thing is that Felix tended to be written differently than the other men which connects with the observation that fandom makes Felix the "woman" in gay pairs.

Anyways yall need intersectionality, a history lesson, media literacy, and self reflection (because everyone carries bigotry within them, we live in a society it's unavoidable. It's not the choice of having no bigotry or not, it's the choice of being aware of it and actively counteracting it, or not and having it leak through).

I don't have any problem with shipping or shippers. I don't understand the appeal most of the time but whatever, I'm mostly neutral about it, doesn't bother me when I see it (although tag so I can blacklist if it personally doesn't jive with me). What I CAN potentially have a problem with how it is done however if someone it just regurgitating bigoted stereotypes without any sort of meaningful contribution to the discussion.

(Sometimes with like really out of character stuff like different personality, different setting, shipping two character that have never interacted in canon, I think these people just want to write original stories but are cowards, but whatever do what you want. )

[aishabellasbigblogofeverything]

If i may hope into your inbox rq to rant,i think there's a special kind of masculinazation queer black women go through specifically.There's this weird thing white cis wlw have where they automatically assume 'black women with a queer gender/orientation=masculine presentation' even if the bw in question is blatantly femme(remember the tomboy Megan Thee Stallion allegations💀)and it's highkey insane how they can't wrap their heads around the fact that black women can be girlypops and softgirls as much as any other queer women and i can only imagine how much worse it is for femme black trans women

Like for me i'm bigender and genderfluid along with being bi so i understand why people would assume i want to be masc on first meeting but a quick look at my blog or talking with me will make it very obvious i'm a dude but not the slightest bit masculine and that's absolutely influenced by my black womanhood but white woman fragility makes the idea of unlearning misogynoir 'scary'🙄Ntm my white trans girl friends have been way more normal about me and guys like me than cis girls so that adds to my opinion that transfem and black woman friendships are almost inherent and the overlap between transmisogyny and misogynoir.They think it's 'allyship' but the thing is almost no black woman ever asks to be masculineized

All of this is so true!!!

And then there's the fact that whenever you see Black wlw rep in media, they are almost always butch/stud or on the androgynous/masculine side, and while that does deserve rep, you hardly see femme Black wlw nearly as much, especially when they're paired with a non-Black or lighter-skinned Black girl who will almost always be the femme to their butch, it feels like Black wlw almost never get to be the feminine one.

A lot of white wlw I've seen tend to assume that Black wlw must be masculine, often so that they can be the more feminine one and it's unfair. Plus I feel like Black femme lesbians in particular face a DOUBLE form of femme invisibility that other femmes do not, because while femmes in general are read as straight or seen as having straight-passing privilege(which we do not), Black femmes often face both where we are assumed to be straight feminine girls or we are seen as not being "lesbian" enough because we're femme when Black lesbians must be studs. And it's unfair. And also I wish there was a term specifically for Black femme lesbians the way Black masc lesbians have stud, that was common and widespread, but I also just know that if a term like that did exist, then it would just be co-opted by non-Black femmes anyway, just like non-Black mascs try to do with stud.

I feel too that my femmeness is def influenced by my Black womanhood as well so I see where you're coming from. And I also agree that Black girls and trans girls(esp Black trans girls) should be friends because our oppression, although not identical, has a lot in common on the grounds that we are both denied womanhood by the white gender binarist society.

I wish this was a thing people talked about more, a lot of people act like femmes don't have any unique problems or that we are privileged for being straight-"passing" or having "so much representation" in media, when that is not the case and especially ignores the reality of being a femme of color, especially a Black femme who has to fight to be allowed to embrace her femininity and not be seen as man-lite due to white supremacy. I feel like only other femmes and butch lesbians care about our struggles but that the wider non-lesbian/non-wlw society doesn't? Especially with a lot of lgbt men/male-aligned people saying that the lgbt community has a "fear of/aversion to" masculinity which is complete bullshit(unless you're referring to butch/masc/stud women of course). But we need to start having this conversation! So thank you for bringing it to my attention!

[sorin-sunchild]

Wait whats the issue with saying tma/tme?

Similar to what happened to AGAB terms, people have started to use TMA/TME to just mean 'Binary AMAB trans woman/binary AFAB trans man' occasionally parcelling it out to nonbinary people as well based strictly on your AGAB/SAB or perceived AGAB/SAB. The creation of a new binary isn't a good thing, especially one defined by a specific type of oppression/bigotry that is not black and white in it's real life execution. It will always involve ignoring, excluding and erasing the experiences of those who don't fit that strict binary but still experience what it's talking about.

*AMAB trans women are the most effected by systemic transmisogyny (after all they are the intended target of it). They are the most affected and the worse affected group. The way others can be affected is not equal but it's also not acceptable and it still happens - circumstantially or otherwise. 'Exempt' means immune to, free from, never experiencing or having to experience X *ever*. Bigots aren't kind and are well known for simply lashing out at anyone with any resemblance to a group they hate.

The line especially gets blurry if one is intersex. An AFAB intersex person, after all, could have gone through a masculinising puberty and be affected by transmisogny for simply looking 'masculine/like a man' in the transphobes eyes. Bigots rarely give a shit about what your personal identity and actual AGAB is. If they want to be transmisogynistic towards you, they will. In this way you will not be 'exempt' simply for not being AMAB and in some way trans feminine. There are people who will *never* experience even a lick of transmisogny but it's not strictly based on one's AGAB or gender.

Considering point 1 and how many people use TMA/TME alone to describe someone's identity e.g. 'TMA so-and-so' ...don't you think it's a bit weird referring to trans women specifically by the oppression they face? Not as women, or trans women, or trans femmes but basically 'victim of transmisogny'. It's like referring to your ssa friend as 'lesbophobia affected' instead of 'a lesbian'. It's just strange to centre the persons oppression and not their gender/actual identity to me I dunno. Trans women deserve better than to be constantly reminded or told of their inherent 'inescapable victimhood' to the point where it becomes how they're identified as trans women.

People are using it to basically assess whether a person is or isn't allowed to talk about how transmisogyny or transphobia in general affects anyone of any group. Again this is needlessly exclusionary. Reminds me of how 'no uterus no opinion' was/is used with the intention of telling cis men to back off discussion of cis women's reproductive rights etc but also excludes trans men by assuming their lack of a uterus based on gender and excludes trans women from talking about issues affecting people of their gender simply due to assumedly not having a certain body part.

I don't think people who use it often consider the wider implications and you aren't bad necessarily just for using it. I'm sure some do find it useful, but it's not useful on a wider scale. If it's useful to you then use it for you but maybe we can back off using it for others based on assumptions?

There's many areas of grey when it comes to how transmisogny affects people. People who aren't trans women saying they are affected by transmisogny isn't because they all want to be victims so bad or talk over trans women. It's because they know what they experienced and they don't want to be shoved into another binary box and have their experiences silenced because a bunch of strangers online have black and white thinking. This has never nor will it ever be a good thing to do to someone.

Do I think I've ever been personally affected by transmisogny? No. But that doesn't mean that other trans masc NB people haven't and never will or can. Trans women and trans femmes, especially AMAB ones are always always ALWAYS going to be the most affected and the most vulnerable to it and the ones who have the most to gain from it being fought but that does not and will not ever mean that everyone else is miraculously never affected at all i.e. exempt. That's my personal issue with the TMA/TME dictonomy.

*In light of recent events, I would like to express that my usage of 'AMAB trans woman' here was to acknowledge my understanding that transmisogyny is more often aimed at and greatly used to oppress any person who is not a man but was assigned male at birth and undertakes transition towards being seen as a woman/woman-aligned by society. It was not used to call trans women men or male and I did not intend to overly highlight the type of trans woman I was talking about - hence my dropping of AGAB terminology when it wasn't necessary to the point. I have altered one use of the phrase to deemphasize the usage that upset someone. However, I still maintain that if you are rude to someone online they don't owe you any kind of civility back either.

[grungegobbler]

ngl i think half of the infighting between transmisogyny and transandrophobia is just….the name “transandrophobia”. Having a word like that invokes a feeling of systemic misandry and male oppression. But the patriarchy benefits men and women are the ones who get most of the fallback from that, therefore a term like that MUST be bullshit.

Transmisogyny is about the intersection of transphobia and misogyny but, transandrophobia is just about trans mens unique experiences. Its less systemic than transmisogyny. A lot of the discourse ive seen is a misunderstanding that transandrophobia is about systemic misandry and not trans mascs being infantilized, talked down too, fetishized, and denied medical care in TERF spaces. While also experiencing hatred in queer spaces.

Trans femmes are seen as evil beings seducing children by not just TERFS, but also by the general public. This has created a truly hard existence for them. Trans mascs, on the other hand, are seen as poor sweet summer children who cannot be allowed autonomy. We are hopeless victims who cannot speak for ourselves. Cannot advocate. Cannot have a voice. This idea has, sadly, bleed into trans spaces. Even in trans spaces, transmascs are seen as small UwU cinnamon roll children who cannot talk about our personal experiences with the OTHER trans people. We need to sit at the little kids table playing with legos and lifting weights, while we are talked over.

Thats why transandrophobia, the parts that are about misandry, focus on it being within the queer community and not within society as a whole. Many queer people hate men for being, well, men. And they take this out on the transmascs who DARED betray them with masculinity. Transmascs loose support when they transition. We go from UwU little baby soft boys named Arlo, to a big scary man who will destroy the community at the first chance he gets. For transmascs, there is no in between. We lack spaces and support from our fellow trans people because their trauma views masculinity as dangerous.

In the queer community, femininity is a celebration of self expression. Its seen as a celebration in almost every queer group. Camp, glitter, dresses, makeup. Breaking gender roles is what is not just celebrated, but expected. To be a binary transmasc in the queer community is seen as doing queerness “wrong”. Trans men are pressured to be feminine and, if we arnt, we are seen as dangerous and less queer than our trans femme counterparts.

Transandrophobia is a disleading term for many because it isn’t something “akin” to the systemic oppression of transfemms; its the infantilization we experience from TERFs mixed with the dislike and distrust from other queer people. If anything, its more about our experiences in trans/queer spaces. It definitely shouldnt take away from the experiences and harassment of transfemmes, who definitely have it worse outside of the community. But i also think its not fair for people to immediately go “WELL, thats not real because misandry isnt real”, when we actively experience misandry in our own community. We both have different experiences about different lives and those two things can exist together. In a perfect world we would advicate for both transmisogyny and transandrophobia.

[trans-androgyne]

I'm so sick of this. Trans men could be fucking like "lets have a discussion about unsavory attitudes or actions within queer communities when it comes to gender" and a bunch of fucking people INCLUDING OTHER TRANS MASCS are like "wooooooow cant believe youre attacking TRANS WOMEN like that this is obviously bigotry. after all theyve been through?? I am going to assume this mild criticism is about trans women (which you never said it was at all even once) and THEN tell you that because transphobia exists any disagreement with a trans woman means you want her to be HARASSED. I can't believe you think harassment is okay. also even though trans women are poor victims (I am speaking on behalf of all trans women) who you arent allowed say anything in opposition to (I think trans women are defenseless and attack people based on the idea that any criticism is trying to ruin their lives) (don't you know its impossible for a trans woman to ever be treated with respect or have a good life ever and in fact they are all doomed to being treated horribly?) (this is me HELPING trans women by the way I'm an ALLY) and trans men are the problem and somehow even though we're all in the same community Poor Trans Women are so oppressed they would be RUINED by disagreements (I am speaking on behalf of every trans woman and I know not a single one wants to have an interesting discussion about oppression or gender) this is me being an ally btw I could never be transmisogynistic by talking like this. also somehow transphobes check what type of trans you are, if youre a trans woman they hate you and if youre a trans man they say "yay you're a man" and treat you wonderfully because if youre a man youre always treated well no matter what other types of oppression you might face I think of this as being progressive.

Sorry for the long rant(?) I have a lot of thoughts. In summary: some people see themselves as such trans woman defenders that they a hundred percent loop around to infantilising them by implying its too hurtful to have a conversation. I've seen this exact type of behaviour as a trans man when it comes to misgendering. someone slips up and instead of being like "oops I mean he" they go some equivalent of "oh my gosh im sooooo sorry i cant believe I did that to you you probably feel miserable have I ruined your day oh my goodness dont cry ill make it up to you I know you have now become an emotional wreck from the horrible thing I did to you im sorry im sorry im sorry I just need to make sure everybody can hear how HURT you are by one misgendering" this is an example of how "being an ally" loops around to calling you fragile and a literal baby. They make it worse even though theyre "on your side" by implying you cant handle anything and they have to "fix it" because you just would collapse immediately at something maybe affecting you.

On the one hand, I understand where a lot of this is coming from. Trans women do get harassment campaigns started against them for small issues. It’s best not to resolve real problems with specific transfems in a public forum. So many have described the feeling of transmisogynistic hypervisibility as a panopticon and that very much applies in these discussions.

But trans women also aren’t made of glass. And they aren’t immune from making mistakes and causing harm. Making posts that contradict some trans women’s understandings of transmasc oppression is not transmisogyny. Pointing out that something they said or did was hurtful or transphobic is not transmisogyny. People act like this is how you treat trans women with respect and it’s very much not. This is not being “normal” about trans women. They are human beings who yes need some extra care and protection but are also capable of talking things out instead of collapsing into dust at the first sign of criticism. I know not all trans women like being treated this way in the slightest. I hope we’ll be able to find ways in the community to still uplift their voices and mitigate harm done to them without putting them on a high pedestal or shielding them from all criticism and intracommunity discussion that does not go their way.

[nekoning]

I want to speak in support of transfems, as someone who is TME that embodies some of the arguments used to deflect acknowledging transmasc privilege. I want to start by saying that nothing I'm going to say is something transfems haven't said before and that you should prioritize listening to transfem voices.

Just to give context, for most of my life I was a masculine, non-passing transmasc, now I'm a visibly gnc agender person who's been 2 years on T, but what is important is:

There has not been a single stage in my transition journey where I have not been more privileged than transfems.

Not when I was pre-T, not when I was masc, not now that I'm gnc and sometimes get read as transfem, never.

I can only speak from my experience, but I will use it to deconstruct a few of the most common arguments used by TME people to criticize TMA people that speak out about transmisogyny.

1) “Transmasc people face the same level of oppression, any disagreement to this is an attempt at dividing us”

(CW: mentions of SA and murder)

Believe me, I know oppression. For another context i live in Latin America, where if you've paid attention to statistics about transphobia, it gets pretty bad here. Transmascs I know have had heartbreaking life stories, a lot of them have suffered SA, a few became sex workers to survive, that and more transphobia transmascs have talked about before.

Not too long ago, I was in a candlelit vigil with other transmascs, mourning the murder of Ever, a trans man who suffered violence, was killed and dismembered. He was treated as a woman in the news like in most cases here, a lot of us wondered if we could be next.

That same day I saw a post about transmasc privilege. My first knee-jerk reaction was to feel defensive, how could I get told that in that moment? how could anyone think we're privileged? A lot of transmascs are having that reaction now, the problem is you're staying with that reaction instead of listening.

You think what transfems are saying is that you stand with cis men at the top, hand in hand, only rewarded and not faced with any harm. That is not what they are saying, what they are pointing out is that even if we're both at the bottom, transmascs are one step above, 10 cents above, it is not wrong to point out that difference, it's fair.

I could go on and on with anecdotes about how other transmasc people and I suffer, and yet, none of it will erase that privilege. It’s in the name that appears in my ID and CV, it's in the way masculinity is favored in comparison to femininity, it's in how the community's response to my suffering will most often be open arms instead of being harassed, called pedophile or rapist, being banned and more of what happens to transfems, it's structural, it's patriarchy.

Everyone has a duty to recognize in which ways they are privileged. It is the duty of transmasc people to recognize that, even though the little privilege they have is not enough to protect them from transphobes and cisnormativity, it is enough to be weaponized against transfems if they choose to do so. The same way that even if a cis man is the best of allies and is discriminated by other aspects of his identity, he still holds more privilege than women.

We have to be aware of this privilege not because there is an “oppression olympics”, but because it's necessary if we want to use it in favor of transfems and not against them.

If you think transfems speaking out about the mistreatment they face is what is destroying unity, you're wrong. it's your lack of solidarity that is.

2) “GNC or feminine transmascs suffer the same treatment, so everyone is affected by transmisogyny”

I'm very fluid in my gender expression and nowadays I pass most of the time as a man. Sometimes I get read as transfem by strangers and get harassed, because of this I've started to become anxious about going outside.

And that is kind of the point, I started getting treated worse when read as transfem, in no other stage of my transition, not even when I didn't pass at all and was very masc, was I ever treated this harshly. And you know what? it's still not as bad as what transfems go through.

Because it's occasional and accidental, it's not even directed towards me really, the oppressive system in place doesn't have me as a target. Some other transmascs will give me the side-eye for being feminine, still not as bad. Some people will misgender me, see me as a cis woman, still not as bad, cis women ARE more privileged than trans women. If something happens to me, I can reach out to my safety net and be supported.

Maybe you should ask trans women what happens to them when they reach out for help, what happens when they speak out about what happens to them. I can't claim to be just as oppressed when the bullets just graze me, they are taking the direct hit and you are not protecting them.

3) “We don't know the reality of transmasc oppression. There is not enough data about us yet to make these claims”

That fact infuriates me as much as it infuriates you, I wish we were studied more, because it is true that sometimes our experiences are undermined. However, despite that, I don't need statistics to know that transfems are telling the truth, because it's how patriarchy works. They are women, I am not. We are both trans but stand in different sides of the spectrum, patriarchy punishes moving towards their side.

If you're still old enough to remember, what was one of the most common things cis men would tell women when they would speak about the oppression they faced? "show me the statistics." Don't do that to trans women, even when we both know it's unfair that the statistics don't exist, don't. Believe trans women, it's as simple as that. I don't need statistics to believe them because we have decades of history as proof.

To end this, Sylvia Rivera and many more transfems fought to get their voices heard despite the rest of the community trying to silence them, the same thing is happening now.

When will you listen? when will you contribute to making the community safe for trans women? If you want an united queer community, strong enough to fight against cisnormativity and patriarchy, then you need to make your choice between defensiveness and solidarity, I already made mine. And please hurry, because transfems really need us right now.

There is much more everyone should know about transmisogyny, but you have to hear it from them, they are the experts, read books and articles made by transfems, listen to what transfems are saying on this site, listen to the transfems in your community, be there for them.

edit: i can't believe i have to say it again, these are my experiences only, not speaking for everyone, and still, personal experiences are one thing, a systematic, structured oppression is another, it changes nothing.

[velvetvexations]

gender is so silly. i dont want to look like a girl because im transmasc but i DO want to look like a guy who looks like a girl. always fun when reading/watching something and they get to a crossdressing bit with one of the men and i feel some sort of way about it

This is exactly what TRFs would be down your throat about fetishizing transmisogynistic caricatures but I'm telling you it's okay and I'm the only person worth listening to on any subject.

I want to look like a girl who looks like a guy myself, but that's difficult to find. A vocal minority of the internet insists it's praxis to misgender cis men as often as possible but it's still considered a devastating and disgusting insult to say a woman looks masculine. I think Rhea Ripley is cool enough she'd be understanding if not entirely flattered that most of the reason I relate to her so much is that I was convinced she must have been a trans woman on sight.

But even with actual trans women, then it's even worse, which sucks because I do a happy little clap when I clock another correctly. Awhile ago I saw someone listing out signs a girl is AMAB to be a transphobic asshole but all I could think was about how ecstatic I'd be for someone to tell me those things, I'd just straight up be like "thank you for noticing!" like someone asked if I had my hair done.

I think that's what it means to me to be a male woman. Most trans women would obviously prefer to pass, and there are butch trans women, but I don't know if many of them conceptualize their butchness as being a feature of the body that got them AMAB or if it's just the same sense of style as butch-identifying cis women. For me it's very much the former. I'm loud and proud that my body is the kind that was assigned male. I don't intend to imply that must mean trans women who want to pass, or who don't center that physicality, hate themselves or anything, it's just a different path.

When I was younger I wanted so badly to look less masculine. The fact that I couldn't is, I think, a large part of why I eventually flipped the script and went all in on being masc, but most trans women who can't physically transition are either going to kill themselves or continue being miserable forever, and that sucks so much.

Even now, when I say I've been getting cooler with body hair lately, that doesn't mean I'm proud of or enjoy the hair on my actual body, but am more into the idea of my sona's design potentially having body hair in the future. I'm completely disassociated with this body entirely, which pre-dates me embracing masculinity. At a certain point, not being able to look the way I wanted to (feminine, then hyper-androgynous) made me snap and just fully break off from the physical world. This is especially true of Rally, the cis woman in our system, because the others feel themselves in this body but simply don't have a mental image of it at all, but she feels entirely removed even when fronting.

And as I noted before, my two examples of people I want to look like, particularly in regards to being visibly AMAB, were a clocky cis woman and a guy who the internet calls a faggot a million times a day, so there's still femininity there, androgyny.

Presentation sure is a thing.