#in a society that Does Not Want you to be trans.

[velvetvexations]

are we "upholding our agab (and thus hampering liberation)" or are we just discussing the ways we are affected by policies in a transphobic and misogynistic society that isnt liberated lmao??? like id rather my agab didnt affect anything in my life (including idiotic trans discourse lol), but what i want versus the reality of the situation are two entirely different things lmao

It's for some reason a lot easier for trans women to completely 100% drop every last scrounge of identification with their AGAB because treated transphobically for us - pre or post transition, open or out, whatever - does indeed translate to not being treated the way cis men are treated, but the continuity between how you're treated as a cis woman and how you're treated as a trans person is so stark you cannot in get away from the fact that they're doing this because they continue to see you as your AGAB. "If they really saw us as [AGAB] we would have privilege" is not a self-deception that is applicable to trans people AFAB, but IS something a trans woman can believe in.

This is why butch trans women* tend to be chiller on average this kinna thing. TRFism is largely a framework for people who view attempting to pass as the only acceptable transfeminine experience, even if they don't say it out loud. Their only goal is desperately wanting more than anything in the world to be categorized as women to the point of playing make believe with the clown shoes idea that trans women are denied privilege because the cishetpatriarchy secretly gets it right and are lying just to have an excuse for being mean. That's not a complex you typically get when you're actually proud of being visibly someone who was AMAB.

And that's really sad! I feel bad for people who are so lost in the "if even one person can't tell I'm a woman from a glance I'm going to have a meltdown" anxiety spiral they have to do this bullshit. That genuinely sucks for them.

*To a lesser extent, non-binary people AMAB also. Every NP person AMAB I've seen involved in this discourse on the side of TMA/TME aligned themselves with femininity or womanhood in one way or another, and so can also be seen as attracted to Taxonomic Womanhood for that reason, but people who are not feminine do not generally want to be categorized as women. TRFs, of course, ignore this, and insist their NB siblings AMAB are simply in denial of being taxonomically women.

[variouspositions1984]

entering my genderless miasma era

[ego-similis-testudines]

I may very well be swinging a bat at a hornet's nest, but I find it very interesting that the crowd that (rightfully) says "Read another book" to Harry Potter fans among the J.K. Rowling bullshit has a not-insignificant overlap with the crowd that has also only read one book (and that book is Whipping Girl).

[snobgoblin]

so are you non-binary or trans

i do not know for i am but a fairy

[just-a-little-unionoid]

You know I think we can resolve a lot of our problems and moral dilemma by asking ourselves "does this really matters that much?"

[hussyknee]

Everyone stop what you're doing and go read KJ Charles. She is a master class in queer historical fiction and writing diversity authentically.

[pirateswhore]

remember how a few years ago gender neutral bathrooms were all the rage and everyone was advocating for them but then people realised it would include trans people too so they did a 180° and went back to "bathrooms must be protected and used as safe spaces for women at all costs <3 🥺".

sod off. say you're transphobic and sod the fuck off.

[bookmunchies]

So I read Hourou musuko and I really think people should read it, but if you do happen to read it you really shouldn't look at it from a western storytelling lens cause, it does it such a great disservice. It's a very well done story but when I went to look through the comments they were mostly negative because, in the opinion of the commentators, it's a story about trans solidarity, or transition, that failed because it did not give them what they wanted to see, and it involved a lot more heavy topics than they think were needed, when it's a coming of age story that follows Shu-chan, and all the people who shape her childhood and young adulthood, and the difference between her and those those seemingly like her. Then there was anger at 'badly done representation' in the case of a character that turned out different than they wanted and at the friends and people around her not being supportive enough, in their opinion -assuming usamerican because of the tone but might be a diff western country- and I really don't understand how basically everything about this very good work was made so bad in their heads, everything was twisted and I fail to see the reason for even reading when you will just mindlessly consume the pages in such bad faith, misinterpretating most of the manga and absolutely ignoring everything that is not outright stated, I mean, why read manga if you don't want to pay attention to what is shown visually, and just look at what's written in speech bubbles?

[velvetvexations]

Maybe this is just me being too general about things but like personally alongside/rather than thinking of transandrophobia/transmisogyny as purely the transmasc vs transfem aspects of transphobia, I sometimes think of them as the ways transphobia affects people it tries to force into masculinity/femininity who are instead feminine/masculine. Like how transmisogyny is often (though far from entirely) about "we expect you to be a man and do all the things that come with it how dare you be a woman/feminine" and transandrophobia is often similar in reverse. Transmisogyny encompasses the social view that due to agab someone "should" be a man but isn't and the sides of forcing someone into masculinity and away from femininity whereas transandrophobia encompasses expected/forced femininity and punishes masculinity, as a very very broad generalization.

Like I think transandrophobia absolutely affects trans women who are butch/ otherwise masculine in any way (as deemed by society in which femininity is extremely strict and gatekept) intentional or not because while society does not want trans women to be feminine, it equally does not want anyone who says they are a woman to not conform to a certain form of femininity. Like on top of transfem butches claiming feminine gender/womanhood, they are simultaneously dismantling the idea that womanhood means performing femininity in a specific way which generally leads to transandrophobia (betrayal of womanhood claims, degendering, combo of weak woman dangerous man) alongside already existing transmisogyny.

I also think feminine trans men similarly experience transmisogyny in many ways on account of the rhetoric of "how dare someone we consider to be a man/someone who claims to be a man/looks like a man/etc act in a way that is not masculine in a specific patriarchal way" etc

Like I don't think that these examples fully encompass all possible instances of course nor do they show the full breadth of transmisogny/transandrophobia but I think there's a benefit to acknowledging that a lot of transphobia of different forms is punishment for not living up to the expectation of womanhood/manhood that is either forced due to agab or expected due to "well you claim you're x gender and x gender acts/looks like y". Its one way to analyze how various groups share gendered oppression

I'm not wording this as well as I'm thinking it in my head but it's kind of how transmisogyny and transandrophobia share a demonization of things considered masculine and things considered feminine, but different parts of those things. Like how transmisogyny posits trans women as sexual predators due to association with men/male bodies/penises as something that is socially constructed as sexually aggressive but also incorporates the sexual objectification of people who are associated with womanhood in society. Whereas transandrophobia has the embodied misogyny of people who are expected to give birth, for example, as well as the aspects of masculinity that are praised in white cishet perisex etc men but used to demonize marginalized men such as danger to women etc. They're two sides of the same coin is kind of what I'm trying to say? A Venn diagram of experiences and aspects of oppression that overlaps a lot.

Like part of misogyny is faced more often by trans masculine(ized) people (as a broad generalization) (ie reproductive issues, erasure, etc) another part is faced more often by trans feminine(ized) people (extreme sexualization, etc) and there's a bunch faced by both groups.

And all this is very general and doesn't get into how exorsexism influences both or other intersections and all that, and it's gotten away from me a bit... But tldr transphobia is a multi edged sword and no matter which side you're being hit with, it's the same weapon

people will say "that's still just transmisogyny" but demonizing a butch trans woman for being butch would be like the exact opposite of the definition Julia Serano gave it lol

[snekdood]

ive literally never understood antisemitism and i dont think I ever will. literally 0 basis for any of the conspiracy theories. its always just projection from christians.

[vonkarma2]

ultimately my enjoyment is hampered because it is low key sexist bc it takes place in an alternate universe where Sigmund Freud is real. though I did still like it for the most part but I hate Sigmund Freudddd Utena better

[summersinyourblood]

oh of course yes hes trans obviously because he wants to stay home and not work… this is good for feminism

[uncanny-tranny]

Hi. this might be long so feel free to delete but i would like some advice/help. so i am trans i have known i am trans for years and years. since i was a toddler. i came out first when i was a preteen and i sort of fluctuated between identifying as 'just' binary male and various nombinary genders for a while until settling on binary male a couple years ago. but lately ive been wondering whether im trans het or a nonbinary butch lesbian. i am only attracted to women and im only comfortable with masculine terms he/him pronouns all that stuff. but idk. it's complicated and i am also both intersex and autistic so i feel kinda weird about it anyway. i tried identifying myself a s a butch lesbian a few days ago but i changed my mind after about 20 minutes because im worried about people interpreting me as a woman when really my gender is very masculine with some other stuff like an alien. idont know how else to explain it sorry

I definitely get where you're coming from, and I don't think I'll have the "right" answer for you - not because of anything you are, but because you are the expert in your experiences. I'm sure you know that, but I always want to remind people of that, sometimes we get caught up in making sure that we are "right."

There are plenty of other butches, genderqueer people, trans guys - whatever, really - who are in the same boat. It can be hard to navigate and make sure who you are is understood. I think a lot of times, people will interpret you based on their own ideas, and that does suck, but it often doesn't indicate a lot about what you are doing. I definitely think if it makes you comfortable, you should claim it, though I get how complex that can be.

And like... I know so many butches and whatnot who totally get where you're coming from, and I think finding those people can make it so much easier to see yourself claiming it, if that makes sense. If you haven't, please do surround yourself with a bunch of people who have those similar experiences.

You contain multitudes. You are multifaceted, and that may include being "contradicting." Whatever you feel best in is right for you. I don't know what is best for you, but I do know you deserve to be heard and not judged. I hope you extend that curtosy to yourself.

[dashiellqvverty]

whatever they were trying to do with connecting the metacrisis stuff directly to rose being trans just REALLY did not land lmao like “donna had a child so the metacrisis is split between them now so it’s survivable” okay cool. i literally do not understand how this connects to the fact that she is trans though and like it simply wasn’t necessary to try and connect it??? like something something by being trans she transcends gender and binary concepts… in a way that the doctor somehow DOESNT???? maybe i’m misunderstanding but the other possible implications don’t work very well either. idk it felt very sweet and i’m not ANGRY about it but also it was just so clumsy

[grimmjowjaegerjaquez]

Remembering the brief period in my life when i was obsessed with ashido, the only filler character with rights bc kubo originally planned to include him in the manga but had to cut him for time

[timeisacephalopod]

Transphobia is fucking dumb because trans people are a group of people who want to do extensive cosmetic surgery on themselves (not all of them but still, y'all know what I'm getting at), use a new pronoun, and wear different clothes. And somehow this is treated as some Great Threat to women taking a shit because apparently cis women OR men just can't go in a bathroom and assault you and trans people specifically don't use bathrooms for shitting they use them for Assaulting People??

That's nonsense lmao, trans people by and large are a group that want to alter their own bodies in ways zero people have a right to limit unless they're also limiting cis people from cosmetic surgeries before having 3 psychiatrists notes saying they definitely want bigger tits. People who care about what trans people do to their own bodies should shut up and mind their business because unless it's your knob being operated on this isn't an issue anyone but an individual trans person needs to care about same as any other elective surgery. People get surgeries all the time and my life goes on, because other people doing shit to their own bodies ain't none my business or some sort of existential threat to society at large get a damn grip. Someone dressing In Ways and Using Pronouns and Doing Surgeries isn't exotic, the Kardashians do it all the time but no one bans them from doing that and given the body image issues they create claiming surgically constructed bodies are Just Naturally Them I actually think they're a bigger threat to society at large than any trans person.