#you could also say ofc that the 4 main characters who are the most miserable and traumatized
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vonkarma2 · 4 months ago
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ultimately my enjoyment is hampered because it is low key sexist bc it takes place in an alternate universe where Sigmund Freud is real. though I did still like it for the most part but I hate Sigmund Freudddd Utena better
#Btw noril don’t read these tags there are spoilers#like idk id have to think abt it more maybe talk abt it with someone else#like does this overall criticize or reinforce gender roles slash heterosexuality#bc like shinji clearly is not the ideal of masculinity and I don’t think that’s seen as a bad thing bc its not like toji’s personality#is seen all that positively either#+ obviously shinji not being a stone cold murderer like gendo wants is a good thing lol#and shinji is straight up into kaworu obviously#but there are a lot of counter examples as well#also I think the adult female characters are all undermined by their sexuality#like ofc gendo and the other old bitch whose name I forget are motivated by their love for yui#but they are stone cold about it. I don’t want to see ritsuko break down crying abt how gendo doesn’t love her dawg#to the point where she is choking out rei being jealous of a child#I think to some extent the show is aware of there being a power imbalance between men and women but even if its treating the#Female characters as distinct individuals worthy of success I think it is a) victimizing them b) claiming there is an inherent unchanging#biological basis for all of these things#pitying of women rather than having contempt for them lol#the only mentally stable person is kaji#you could also say ofc that the 4 main characters who are the most miserable and traumatized#have special attention given to how emotionally broken they are bc they are especially scarred not bc they are women#since obviously shinji is there <I think he’s a trans girl anyway but we are talking abt authorial intent#but I think the way they are treated and the nature of their problems especially asuka and misato is highly highly gendered#not a bad thing inherently since obviously their gender impacts their life#but it does feel less like bc they are a woman society treats them badly#and more like bc they are a woman they are weaker and more emotional and easily hurt. or more emotional about how they are hurt#and shinji is like them bc he is particularly weak#I’ve only seen the show not the movie or rebuilds but him being the only one to resolve his arc positively#asukas mom killing herself over a man ritsuko and her mom and misato self destructing over men#<made worse bc they are grown women so theoretically more mature but since they are susceptible to sexuality they are weaker#than even the female children#��it’s sad that men have all the control but men will always have all the control’ it feels like. idk thoughhh
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lovecolibri · 2 years ago
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Maybe it's because i still try to have some kind of hope in this show, but the fact that they cut the eddie/lucy scene where as ak said she told him she didn't want to replace him, but maybe the 118 is just growing and that our dear kristen saying they don't know if they can keep ak make me think that maybe she won't coming back, ofc they can't say omg everyone hates her because we mad a big mistake
Yeah, when the episode ended and they had cut her scene with Eddie (add it to the list of specific moments she mentioned that never made it to screen), I started to have a tiny bit of hope. I'm not holding my breath because they may be banking on the fact that since they cut most of her stuff the GA may forget about the kiss for the most part by season 6, and that the "joking" scene in the truck would shut down the idea of BL (for now) so people online would go back to defending her as "bi-besties" with Buck. Just like the did with Tay Kay. And oh look! It's happening, exactly as predicted. So they absolutely could be working on a soft revamp for the character. 🤷🏻‍♀️
However, they do have solid evidence most especially and most recently with Tay Kay that this approach doesn't work. The GA was ambivalent mostly about her coming back in season 4 and a lot of fandom took her obviously terribly treatment of Buck to mean they wouldn't get together. (Which is why I am so baffled that people think the show "made it clear" that BL were incompatible so we shouldn't worry. Like, have you seen Tay Kay? She called him "needy" right after we learned his painful backstory and even though it never made sense for him to want her after 2x06 it certainly didn't stop them from dragging BT out for a whole fucking season. ANYWAY) But come 5a when everyone saw Buck being miserable with her and how she ignored him and his light was just so dim, people starting singing a different tune. And then she was there all the time taking up screentime and then we got Ghost Stories and the GA officially got fed up with her. I think we were ALL looking forward to a fun, lighthearted episode (which we STILL never got the whole season) and to see all that stuff get cut so we could watch the most pointless procedural show about NOT first responding? To watch her half of the investigation which ended up having NO bearing on what Lou did, or how the case turned out? It was incredibly disappointing and the GA was done. The show continuing to drag it out for the whole rest of the season didn’t help either and I doubt they’d be able to bring her back though KR making sure to show them ending amicably after Buck was was so upset sure was...a choice 🙄
But in L’s case, she started out badly and never recovered for the GA after all the push for her in the interviews instead of talking about the actual main characters, and then the kiss. And we got a break for Boston, but 5x13 was so awkward and cringey and we saw her doing things we’d normally see Buck do on a call and after 5a being so light on things actually happening for the mains, people were tired of them not getting the focus. Then we had 5x14 and the whole high-rise save debacle which even the GA noticed was a WEIRD storyline to have for someone with so many more years of experience than Buck, instead of going to Ravi who has been a delightful and loved addition to the recurring character line-up. We just got to see him and Buck working together in 5x13 and making the save through good planning, so him making the save out of luck and then worrying that he might mess up and someone could die would be a natural thing for a probie to go through and Buck helping him through it would be a very full circle moment from 1x02. We also got her insulting Chim, insulting marriage to a group of mostly married people and someone who desperately wants to be (in another call that would have flowed better with someone like Chim or Ravi around), and all her otherwise superfluous moments. 
So while the cynical part of me who is trying to quash any hope so I’m not disappointed and angry when she’s not fucking gone even though she never should have existed says to brace for impact, there IS a part of me that says the numbers are loud and they have precedence for knowing how this turns out and they can’t afford to do it again. Losing 1.5 million viewers and .6 key demo over the 2 seasons KR has been mostly at the helm is still a lot even if they’re not in the danger zone (though airing up against sitcoms helps). Plus two of the most hated characters ever on the show being her creations, and having to entirely cut a whole storyline because a 2 minute scene got SUCH backlash, and everyone dragging the finale as being incredibly lackluster and overly full of emergencies instead of showing us the main character’s storylines wrapping up, especially May’s after all the focus on her not being sure what to do in May Day, and Eddie’s after his arc is one of the only things that got consistently positive reactions from fans for all of 5b, and season 5 generally being criticized for poor planning/pacing issues/mains doing nothing, it’s a LOT of bad all at once and a lot laid at the feet of the showrunner. Which Tim picked and Tim signs off on decisions from, so he’d be in the hot seat too. 
I’m just going to spend this hiatus manifesting some good changes and season 2/3 vibes coming back around for season 6, and all our mains getting the focus and screentime and storylines they deserve. We saw some incredible work from Ryan, Kenny, and Aisha especially this season and I hope the overwhelmingly positive and “it’s about time” reactions will result in more for them in the coming season, and for the love of all that is holy can we please get Oliver something to do outside of having to simper after KR’s self-insert women? The man is literally begging.
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wiypt-writes · 4 years ago
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Stark Spangled Banner
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Ch31: We Fight
Summary: As Bucky comes round he reveals some shocking news to Steve, Katie and Sam which leaves the Captain with no alternative but to take the fight to Siberia in an attempt to prevent the mysterious Doctor from unleashing more Winter Soldiers. But that isn’t the only bombshell he drops and Katie is left grappling internally as she comes to terms with the news.
The 4 rogue operatives enlist the help of some familiar faces, but encounter their old friends who are charged with their own mission- to apprehend Steve’s team. The Avengers are pitted into a Civil War, and the gulf between Steve and Tony grows even wider.
Warnings: Bad language, Smut! (NSFW, Under 18s) Bad Language words.
Pairing: Steve Rogers x OFC Katie Stark
A/N: Wonderful edits again from @angrybirdcr​
Disclaimer: This is a pure work of fiction and classified as 18+. Please respect this and do not read if you are underage. I do not own any characters in this series bar Katie Stark and the other OCs. By reading beyond this point you understand and accept the terms of this disclaimer.
Chapter 30
Stark Spangled Banner Masterlist // Main Masterlist
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“It’s strange,” Katie looked over to where Steve was stood next to her, his arms folded. “It’s like he just flipped a switch turning him right back into the Winter Soldier.”
“HYDRA perfected mind control.” Steve sighed as he looked at Bucky who was restrained, his metal arm locked in a vice in the middle of the warehouse.
“Question is, who the hell is he gonna be when he wakes up?” Sam asked, hands in his pockets.
At that point Bucky groaned and all three of them turned their heads to look at him.
“Looks like we’re about to find out” Katie muttered, as the two men instantly closed ranks on either side of her, automatically adopting more defensive stances.
"Steve?” Bucky questioned in a hoarse voice, wincing a little as he tried to straighten up from the stiff sitting position he’d been slumped in. Everything hurt.
“Which Bucky am I talking to?” Steve asked suspiciously and Bucky glanced at him, blinking slowly.
“Your mom’s name is Sarah.” He said slowly. Then he realised that anyone could know that so he searched for a fact he knew would be more personal, and then laughed a little at the memory “You used to wear newspapers in your shoes.” Then Bucky’s eyes turned to Katie and he smiled softly at his friend’s wife. “You had lilies as your wedding flowers. Lilies were Steve’s ma’s favourite. You looked beautiful by the way.” “How do you…” she frowned, before her mouth dropped open and her and Steve exchanged astounded glances.
“You were there?” Steve looked at him.
Bucky smiled again. “Couldn’t miss your punk ass getting married.”
Steve raised a brow, and his face relaxed, “You can’t read about all that in a museum.” He said lightly.
“Just like that, we’re supposed to be cool?” Sam asked, sceptically.
“What did I do?” Bucky interrupted picking up on Sam’s anger easily.
“Enough.” Katie answered flatly.
Bucky sighed, breathing out in horror and disbelief, “Oh, God, I knew this would happen. Everything Hydra put inside me is still there. All he had to do is say the god damn words.” He muttered miserably.
“Who was he?” Steve asked.
“I don’t know.” Bucky admitted shrugging as best he could.
“People are dead.” Steve continued in a no nonsense tone. “The bombing. The set up. The doctor did all that just to get ten minutes with you. You need to do better than ‘I don’t know’.”
Bucky’s frown deepened, clearly trying to remember.
“He wanted to know about Siberia.” He recalled after a short pause. “Where I was kept. He wanted to know exactly where.”
“Why would he need to know that?” Katie asked, frowning, and Bucky paused.
“Because I’m not the only Winter Soldier.” He answered darkly.
“There’s more of you,” Katie blurted out and Bucky nodded glumly. “How many?”
“Five.” He confessed.
Katie looked at Steve who sighed, before looking at Sam and nodding. Sam moved to undo the clamp from Bucky’s metal arm where the pieces of the vice fell to the floor with a clang. The soldier nodded his thanks, shifting his body to a more comfortable position resting both arms on his knees. Katie stepped forward and handed him a bottle of water, before squeezing his shoulder. He smiled and twisted off the top, taking a large gulp as Steve continued.
“How? How did they make more?”
Bucky looked at Steve sadly before he turned to Katie. “Your dad.” He said gently, before he continued “He managed to back engineer the serum or at least a version of it.”
“So that’s why they were killed.” Katie whispered, looking at Steve. “HYDRA couldn’t steal it from under his nose, it would have been too obvious so they set up the crash and-”
She trailed off as a movement in her peripheral caught her attention. She turned slowly to Bucky who had shifted a little, almost drawing in on himself and she watched him until, after a moment or so, he raised his head to meet her gaze, his eyes full of tears and remorse.
Katie felt herself grow cold as realisation flooded her stomach. “It was you, wasn’t it?” She stated rather than asked, swallowing thickly.
“I’m sorry.” Bucky sniffed gently, eyes cast to the floor.
Steve let out a soft groan as Katie scrunched her eyes shut taking a deep breath, turning away from Bucky. Steve stepped toward her but she shook her head, stopping him as she took a step away, swallowing, trying to remain logical.
It wasn’t Bucky, it was the Winter Soldier. It wasn’t Bucky, it was the Winter Soldier…
“So you got the serum.” Steve spoke softly, his hands dropping to his belt as he turned from Katie to his friend “Then what?”
“Four men and a woman from were taken for transformation. They formed the most elite death squad in the world.” Bucky answered quietly. This was amongst the last things he ever wanted to talk about but he knew he had to. "More kills than anyone in HYDRA history. And that was before the serum.”
“They all turned out like you?” Sam asked curiously with a hint of sarcasm.
“Worse.” Bucky answered flatly.
“The doctor.” Steve asked next, as Katie turned around, her teary eyes focussing back on Bucky, her expression unreadable. “He could control them?”
Bucky glanced at Katie, then Steve before lowering his head, saying softly. “Enough.”
“He said he wanted to see an empire fall.” Katie cleared her throat as she repeated what the doctor had said.
“With these guys he can do it.” Bucky warned softly “They speak thirty languages, can hide in plain sight, they can infiltrate,assassinate, destabilize. They can take a whole country down in one night and you’d never see them coming.”
Katie pinched the bridge of her nose and looked up as Sam walked closer to her and Steve, speaking lowly.
“This would’ve been a lot easier a week ago.” He sighed.
“If we call Tony-” Steve began in the same hushed tone.
“He won’t believe us.” Katie cut in. “He’s blinded by all this at the moment, and even if he did-“
"Who knows if the Accords will let him.” Sam finished with a straight look.
“We’re on our own.” Steve pointed out the obvious.
Sam nodded then paused before saying slowly. “Maybe not.” Katie looked at him in a mix of surprise and expectancy, and he shrugged. “I know a guy.”
“Who?” she asked.
“Remember that dude that broke our perimeter a few weeks back?” Sam looked at her.
“Ant Man?” she frowned.
Sam nodded. “Worth a shot.”
“We also all know a girl.” Steve suggested. He didn’t need to explain he was talking about Wanda.
“But how we gonna do this?” Sam frowned “We can’t just fly back and go on a recruitment drive?”
“No, but,” Katie spoke as a sudden thought hit her, smiling at the two men who turned to face her. She looked at Steve and locked eyes with him. “There is someone that can.”  
*****
After retrieving their gear from Sharon, with many thanks, they headed to a motel for the night. It was old, non-descript, but decent enough for a night’s rest, and more important was far enough away from the CIA base, and within reasonable distance of the airport which was their rendezvous point for tomorrow. If she was honest, Katie was just pleased to be getting away Bucky. She understood, and could reason with herself that Bucky wasn’t in control when he was the Winter Soldier but knowing that he’d killed her parents was a hard thing to simply push out of her mind. And more so because she should have suspected the moment she’d found out they were killed. Who else would HYDRA have sent to do it?
As soon as her and Steve got to their room, she’d withdrawn and retreated to the bathroom. Steve had respected her request that he leave her alone. She’d gently kissed his cheek, her way of assuring him that he wasn’t the issue and then shut the door behind her. She took her time, gathering her emotions, wiping her eyes before she leaned over the sink and splashed cold water on her face. She glanced at the mirror, taking in how tired she looked. Her fingers gently traced the scar to the corner of her mouth, and the other one which trailed her left temple and the tears sprung into her eyes. She knew as well as anyone what being stripped of your dignity, being tortured by HYDRA was like.
Fuck, Bucky deserved her sympathy, not her hate.
But Tony….he didn’t even know her parents had been murdered. If he found out about this, then here was no way on Earth he would be as understanding as she was. No way.
What a mess.
Wiping her face with a towel, she took a deep breath and then headed back into the main room. Steve, who was sat on the bed, looked up at her and flashed her a soft smile.
“You alright?” He asked.
“Not really.”
“Wanna talk about it?”
“Talk about the fact your best friend killed my parents?”
Steve sighed and looked down at his hands. “I’m sorry.”
“No I’m sorry, I shouldn’t take it out on you.” She sighed, stepping into the space between his legs where he was perched on the edge of the bed. Steve looked up as his hands slid up the outside of her thighs and gently stopped on her hips. “Not like you did it is it?”
“Doesn’t mean I’m not sorry about it.” He shrugged, squeezing her hips. “Sorry it happened, sorry that you found out like this, sorry about this whole damned situation.”
“Did you suspect?” She asked softly. “That he might have done it?”
Steve took a deep breath. Unlike Katie, he wasn’t surprised that Bucky had been the one to execute her parents. He’d pieced it together a while ago. Bucky was HYDRA’s number One asset, it made sense that they would send him in for such an important assassination. Still, the fact Katie had managed to remain civil and friendly to Bucky was a temperament to how strong she was. Faced with the same knowledge, Steve wasn’t sure he’d have the ability to do the same.
“Yeah, I did.” He answered honestly. “Since the time we learned it was HYDRA who killed your parents.”
“And you didn’t tell me?”
“Would it have made a difference?” He blinked and she took a deep breath.
“Suppose not.”
“I’m sorry, baby.” He hung his head. “I really am. I never thought in a million years we’d be here like this.”
“Yeah, it’s a bit of a mess isn’t it?”
“One way of putting it.” Steve let out a soft chuckle and gently moved his hands so they were round her back, pulling her closer to him. Her hands strayed to his hair as she ran her fingers through it. He smelt like the water of the river that had dried into his blonde spikes and clothes. Before she could tell him to go shower, they heard a noise from the room next door which Bucky and Sam were sharing. As they listened, it became apparent the two men were in the middle of some kind of heated argument.
“They’ll be best friends by morning.” Steve arched his eyebrow.
“You think?”
“No.” He shook his head and Katie laughed again, her hands continuing to brush through his hair.
“Why did you get all pissy before because I was impressed with how Bucky got that bike?” She asked, her hand stopping, before it moved gently down the back of his neck.
Steve dropped his head forward, where it rest just below the line of her breasts as he let out a noise that was half way between a groan and a laugh. “I did not get pissy.”
“Yes, you did” She pulled gently on his hair, tipping his head back so he was looking up at her. In a flash Steve used his arms that were round her waist, and she let out a small shriek as he quickly whipped her round so she was let on the bed underneath him.
“Alright, so maybe just a little. You forget I know what he’s like. And you’re mine.” Steve looked at her as she reached up to brush his hair back slightly. He was still covered in dirt from the day’s activities and once more she got a whiff of dirty river water.
“You need to take a shower.”
“Oh, that’s me?” Steve teased, giving a sniff, and she scoffed, hitting him on his chest.
“Yes, you stink.”
Steve chuckled and gave her a quick kiss before he moved and stood up, heading into the bathroom. Katie watched him go, his broad shoulders rippling through the back of his shirt, and the more she watched, the more she was reminded of him emerging from a lift shaft, grubbily, and wrestling with a helicopter with his bare arms.  
It was totally inappropriate, all things considered. But right there and then, she didn’t give a shit. Whilst she was here, in this room, with him, she could lose herself, pretend that nothing else bar them existed.
Steve had barely reached over to turn on the shower before he heard Katie enter the room behind him. He spun to face her, and no sooner had he done so, her hand was behind his neck and she pulled his face down to her, pressing her lips to his. Steve grinned into the kiss as his wife went to work on removing his dirty clothes, as he did the same for her, kneeling down to pull her jeans and underwear all the way down her legs. His eyes scanned her naked body, taking in the various bruises she’d sustained, a particularly nasty on along her right ribcage. He gently kissed her skin, taking care not to place too much pressure where she was hurt, all the time her hands tangling in his hair before he rose to his feet, gently taking her face in his hands and kissed her as he manoeuvred her into the shower.
Neither of them paid the least bit of attention to actually getting cleaned up, instead they kissed and held each other under the spray of the water, tongues dancing together, hands sliding along slippery skin, squeezing and kneading where they saw fit. Eventually the teasing touches weren’t enough and Katie’s hands dropped down in between them to stroke him. Steve let out a choked hiss at her touch, he was more than ready, solid as a rock. Spinning her round so her back was to the wall, one hand lifted her leg and hooked it over his arm and he pushed inside of her, making her groan loudly.
“Oh God, Sweetheart…” Steve breathed out shakily against her lips, hand grasping on the steamy shower wall as he began pumping in and out. He felt her sliding a little, her foot struggling for grip on the slippy bath tub so he lifted her easily onto his hips so that she could wrap her other leg around him and her arms around his neck. She kissed, bit, sucked at any of the skin on his shoulder she could get to, lips skirting over the various bruises that she knew would be faded in a day or so, while he buried his face in her neck, his mouth gently sucking on that spot that drove her mad, as he continued to rut upwards, slowing his trusts and concentrating on driving deeper, harder. At the change of pace, Katie let out a groan and dropped her head back against the tiles.  
"Stevie.” She moaned and he slid a hand around into her hair to keep her eyes locked on his.
He wanted to see her, needed to see her.
“You feel so good.” He muttered, groaning as she pushed downwards with her hips, taking him as deep as he could go. “I love you so fucking much.”
"I love you too.” She whimpered, her green eyes shone as he looked straight into them, the pair of them continuing to pant and moan and Steve shuddered as he felt her tighten around him, a sign she was close.
“You’re mine.” He demanded hoarsely into her ear, his thrusts speeding up again. “Say it, please, say it.”
Katie knew where his dumb little insecurity was coming from, and it wasn’t simply about Bucky’s bike trick. He was worried, worried that this whole situation was going to tear them apart because they both understood that a big enough quake could shake even the strongest foundations. But she wasn’t going to let that happen. They’d made vows, promised to love each other for the rest of their lives, and she wasn’t about to let this come between them. She couldn’t.
“TIl the end of the line.” She managed to stutter, her eyes boring deep into his ocean blues which were blown with desire as his hips began to falter their rhythm. “I’ll always be yours, Stevie.”
“Oh, Doll.” His voice was choked as he whispered into her ear and with that she was gone and Steve began to lose his battle against his self-control, shuddering hard as his abs tightened. Her heat gripped him as she groaned loudly, her orgasm leaving her utterly wrecked. He came with a cry of her name, and his thrusts slowed before he stopped, and buried his face into the crook of her neck, his body supporting her against the wall. After a moment he gently moved his head to offer her a kiss, this one soft, as she smiled at him, that satiated, satisfied smile only he ever got to see.
“We’ll be okay.” She whispered again, feeling the need to reassure him.
He kissed her again before setting her gently on her feet. She leaned into his hold as his arms gently wrapped around her. “I know.” He sighed softly, kissing her head. “I know.”
***** Dressing the next day in the same dirty clothes they had discarded the night before grossed Katie out, but to her surprise, Steve not so much. He informed her that he’d often worn the same clothes for days on end when in operations during the war, and she took the opportunity to tease him a great deal, asking him how on earth they managed as many stealth missions as they did when HYDRA could have smelt them coming a mile off.
It was good natured banter, Steve was happy to entertain it, but the moment they all climbed into the stolen, no, borrowed, car to head to the airport parking garage where it was agreed that they’d meet up with the rest of the team, the mood grew sombre once more as the realisation of what they were about to do descended on them.
Steve parked the car a few spaces down from the non-descript van that their man had described and as they climbed out two familiar faces exited the van.
“Hey Nova.” Clint beamed and Katie threw herself at him, Steve smiling at the reunion between the friends. Clint chuckled, lifting her up slightly into his arms before he set her down and she stepped back to look at him.
“Man it’s good to see you!” She smiled. “It’s been far too long! How are the kids, and Laura?”
“Ah, they’re great!” he beamed “Cooper’s starting sixth grade this time round, Lila is giving me back chat at every opportunity and Nathaniel’s walking now.”
Katie smiled releasing him from her hold and as he walked over to greet Steve. She then turned to Wanda wrapping her up in a warm hug.
“You alright?” She pulled back slightly to look the younger woman in the eye. “We’d never have left you if we’d known it would turn out like this, I’m so sorry.”
Wanda merely shrugged as Katie wrapped an arm around her shoulders.
“You know I wouldn’t have called if I had any other choice.” Steve looked at Clint as he shook his hand.
“Hey man, you’re doing me a favour. Besides,” Clint answered lightly shrugging, before he turned serious as he added nodding over his shoulder slightly, “I owe a debt.” Steve nodded gratefully, looking over at Wanda, Katie’s arm still round her, “Thanks for having my back.”
“It was time to get off my ass.” Wanda answered casually, sharing a meaningful look with Clint.
“How about our new recruit?” Katie nodded towards the van.
“He’s rarin’ to go.” Clint answered moving back over to the van to grab the door handle. “I had to put a little coffee in him, but,” he slid open the van’s side door hard, startling the occupant who was led across the middle seat causing him to give a sudden start, blinking. “He should be good.” Clint finished.
The brown-haired man groaned as he rolled out of his seat stepping down from the van while complaining to Clint. “What timezone is this?”
“Come on.” Clint answered, urging the man to get up, “Come on.” He repeated pushing him towards Steve. Scott stumbled a little before his mouth fell open and he blinked at the super-soldier a few times to make sure that what he was seeing was real. Katie grinned as she stood to the side, watching as he continued to stare at Steve in amazement.
Finally Scott closed his gaping mouth, then opened it up only enough to breathe out. “Captain America.”
“Mr. Lang.” Steve professionally offered his hand to the other man, which he took without hesitation.
“It’s an honour.” Scott answered, as he shook Steve’s hand enthusiastically which continued for quite some time. “I’m shaking your hand too long.”
Steve smiled a little in amusement as Scott finally let go of his hand, but continued staring at Steve in awe, “Wow. This is awesome.”
He turned back to Clint, pointing at Steve. “Captain America,” his words trailed off and his jaw dropped yet again when he caught sight of Katie and Wanda. Katie raised her eyebrows slightly as he looked her up and down
“Hey! Mrs America, again!” He grinned lamely and she smiled at him before catching Clint’s eye as he smirked at her, mouthing Mrs America…whilst saluting. She flipped him off as the Archer laughed.
“I know you too,” Scott pointed to Wanda, “You’re great.” He added making her smile.
Lang turned back around to Steve and reached out and grabbed both his shoulders and felt the muscles there
“Jeez.” He muttered before letting go. Even Steve couldn’t stop the small smile forming on his face as he glanced back at Sam and Bucky who were both watching the exchange stony faced. “Look, I wanted to say. I know you know a lot of super people, so, thanks for thinking of me.” Scott looked to Steve’s side and spotted Sam. His face faltered a little, clearly remembering the last time they encountered one another. “Hey, man.” Scott greeted pointing at him.
“What’s up tic-tac?” Sam replied flatly nodding to him in greeting.
“Good to see you, uh…” Scott answered hesitantly then looked a bit sheepish as he went on, looking from me to Sam “Look. You guys…what happened last time was-”
“It was a great audition, but it’ll never happen again.” Sam cut him off with a chuckle and a shrug.
“Did they tell you what we’re up against?” Steve asked Scott steering the conversation back towards the matter at hand.
“Something about some psycho assassins.” Scott answered unsurely having obviously gotten the abridged version from Clint.
“That’s one way of putting it.” Katie mumbled to Wanda getting a smile out of the younger girl before looking at Scott.
“We’re outside the law on this one.” Steve warned. “So, if you come with us, you’re a wanted man.”
“Yeah, well,” Scott muttered with a light shrug, “what else is new?”
“We should get moving.” Bucky suddenly chimed in from his spot where he had remained silent on the other side of the bug keeping himself separated from everyone else.
“I got a chopper lined up.” Clint informed them standing from where he had been seated just inside the van.
Steve nodded, and opened his mouth to say something but suddenly, an alarm began to blare, and an intercom began to speak in rapid German.
"They’re evacuating the airport.” Bucky informed as the rest of them glanced around uneasily.
“Tony.” Katie sighed when Steve caught her eye.
“Tony… Tony Stark?” Scott repeated in shock.
Steve didn’t answer as he looked round issuing a simple instruction. “Suit up.” Once they were all ready, Katie back in her cat-suit as Clint hadn’t been able to override the system to get her Nova suit, she turned to Steve and looked at him.
“There is one plus to Tony being here. He’ll have brought a Quinjet. That can get us to Siberia faster than any chopper.”
"She’s right,” Clint chimed in with a nod as he flexed his bow, “But Stark’s not stupid he knows that’ll be the first place we’ll go.”
“He’ll be waiting for us.” Sam concluded “And we don’t know who he’s brought with him”
“No, but I can make a fairly educated guess.” Clint crossed his arms.
Steve had been listening to their points intently and nodded a plan formulating in his head. “Alright. Listen up, here’s how we play this…” He explained and gave everyone their positions and they all nodded, except Katie, who shook her head when he told her to stick with Bucky and Sam.
“I’m going to talk to Tony.”
Steve frowned and looked at her. “I think he’s past reasoning with, Sweetheart, and besides, I don’t want you ending up in a position where you have to…” Steve trailed off before sighing unable to bring himself to finish the sentence, adding feebly instead. “He’s your brother.”
“Exactly.” Katie said softly, fully understanding what Steve was saying. If this ended in a fight, he didn’t want her feeling like she had to choose between them. Which was why she had to try to talk Tony round, “If I can’t get through to him, no one will. Let me try, please. ”
Steve looked at her. Whilst he knew that there was no point trying to talk to Tony, he knew that from her point of view she had to try. So with that in mind he nodded. “Alright.”
Once everyone was in position, Steve and Katie strode slowly towards the airport landing area, hidden in the shadows for now, until they spotted the helicopter that Clint had mentioned sitting out in the open just waiting for them. They both broke out into a run, leaving the cover of the airport, Steve keeping pace with Katie, but they were stopped short immediately as a small gadget hit the chopper’s wings, sending up an electric current short-circuiting the entire helicopter.
Just as they had predicted.
They both stopped as Tony flew down towards them, Rhodey by his side before they landed between them and the now useless helicopter.
"Wow.” Tony said sarcastically. “It’s so weird how you run into people at the airport.” His helmet slid back, revealing a black eye which he’d probably received from Bucky at the CIA base, turning to his best friend as he asked lightly. “Isn’t it weird?”
“Definitely weird.” Rhodey replied.
“Hear us out, Tony.” Katie stepped forward.“That doctor, the psychiatrist, he’s behind all of this.”
Steve tensed slightly as someone else landed gently to his side. He turned to see a very familiar black covered figure.
“Captain.” King T'Challa greeted politely. “Mrs Rogers”
“Your highness.” Steve returned in kind nodding. Katie did the same.
“Anyway.” Tony cut in, and Steve turned his attention back to him. “Ross gave me thirty six hours to bring you in. That was twenty four hours ago. Can you help your brother out?”
“Fuck Ross!” Katie shook her head, “Tony, you’re after the wrong guy.”
Tony’s expression hardened. “Your judgment is askew.” He accused quietly looking at her, he then turned to Steve. “Your war buddy killed innocent people yesterday-”
“And there are five more super soldiers just like him.” Steve tried to get Tony to understand.
“That’s a far bigger threat that we’re trying to stop.” Katie pressed
“We can’t let the doctor find them first, Tony.” Steve finished with a sigh “We can’t.”
“Steve, Nova…”
Steve and Katie both stiffened as they heard a familiar woman’s voice. Steve knew he should have expected that Natasha would be here as well, but still, hearing her made his gut twist a little. They both turned to face her, Katie’s eyes narrowing slightly.
“You know, what’s about to happen.” Nat warned with her eyes trained steadily on Steve, then she levelled a look at Katie. “Do you really want to punch your way out of this one?”
Katie turned back to Tony, shaking her head. “You’re not going to listen to us at all, are you?”
“I’ll do you a deal, come in and then I’ll listen” He offered
“It will be too late by then!” Katie’s voice growing urgent “This isn’t about the damned accords or Ross or anything else now. If he gets to those other soldiers first then…”
“Look, I’m tired of listening to your supposition.” Tony’s eyes were cold “So stand down and get out of the way.”
Katie felt her jaw drop slightly before she composed herself, and stared back at him. He was past all reasoning with, Steve had been right.
“No.” She shook her head slightly.
“I mean it Katie, get out of-”
“You forget, I’m a Stark as well.” She interrupted with a hiss. “And I can be equally as obnoxious, pig headed and stubborn as you so no. I won’t move.”
“All right, I’ve run out of patience.” Tony snapped. “Underoos!”
Steve frowned at the seemingly random call, before blinking in shock as something whipped through the air and caught his shield, pulling it out of his grip. At the same time as the shield was pulled up, something came down to bind his wrists together, and then Katie’s. They both glanced down in surprise at the sticky, web-like material before they looked at each other and then both lifted their heads back up to see the figure that had stolen Steve’s shield landing crouched on a nearby truck. He was dressed in a red and blue suit, and Katie recognised him as the enhanced being that had been taking the world by storm recently on the internet.
“Nice job, kid.” Tony called approvingly as Steve and Katie continued to somewhat gawk as the kid and Tony exchanged banter before he looked at Steve and gave him a shy salute
“Cap. Captain.” Steve nodded at him, the amusement of the situation rising on his face despite the circumstances. “Big fan, I’m Spider-Man.”
“Yeah,” Tony interrupted again, looking frustrated, “we’ll talk about it later. Just…good job.” He finished with a sigh.
“You’ve been busy.” Steve commented not bothering to hide his amusement.
“And you’ve been a complete idiot.” Tony snapped the anger in his voice evident  “Dragging in Clint. “
“We didn’t drag in anyone-“ Katie started
'Rescuing Wanda’ from a place she doesn’t even want to leave. A safe place. I’m trying to keep-” “Did you even ask her if she wanted to be there before you locked her up?” Katie cut him off.
Tony glared at his sister, taking a deep breath to calm down. “I’m trying to keep you from tearing the Avengers apart.”
All traces of humour from the situation evaporated as Steve answered steadily, unable to bite back the dig that had been bubbling away at him for ages. “You did that when you signed.”
Tony’s eyes turned cold, "Alright, we’re done.” He said quietly before raising his voice sharply once again.  "You’re gonna turn Barnes over and you’re gonna come with us. Now! Because it’s us!“ He tossed his hands wildly indicating to his team. "Or a squad of J-SOC, guys with no compunction about being impolite.”
Katie said nothing, instead she moved so that she was stood slightly in front of Steve and levelled her brother with a look. “We’re not going anywhere.”
“Well then, I guess you’ve made your choice.” Tony shot back, somewhat childishly.
“For fucks sake Tony!” She exclaimed as she looked skywards with a groan. “This isn’t about choices, it’s about stopping a bunch of soldiers far more dangerous than anyone can comprehend…”
“We found it.” Sam’s voice rang in their ears as Katie continued to hold eye contact with Tony, watching him intently as she waited for the right moment. “The quinjet’s in hanger five, north runway.”
Quickly Katie and Steve both held their bound hands high above their heads, catching Tony by surprise, as an arrow came flying from out of nowhere and cut through Steve’s bonds, then Katie’s,  in single swoop without a problem.
And then it was game on. Lang managed to get Steve his shield back and the two groups began to tussle slightly- one team’s intention focussed solely on getting to the jet and the other’s focussed solely on stopping them.
And they were so close to getting there too. There had been no casualties, neither side fighting to hurt the other, but as Katie and Steve regrouped with Wanda, Scott, Clint, Sam and Bucky, and sprinted across the tarmac, they were all forced to come to a quick stop as a laser fired on the floor right before them.
“Captain Rogers.” Vision called as he began to float down in front of them. “I know you believe what you’re doing is right.”
Steve tensed as his group stood in a loose line on either side of him, staring at Vision. The android was joined by Tony and Natasha, and then Rhodey and T'Challa, and finally Spider-Man as they all stood still on the other side of the jagged line Vision’s beam had created.
“But, for the collective good,” Vision finished as he landed, “you must surrender now.”
“What do we do Cap?” Sam was the one to ask breaking the silence, only it wasn’t Steve that answered, it was Katie.
“We fight.” She answered simply, swallowing, her eyes fixed on her brother.
Steve glanced down at her, he really didn’t want to do this, but he knew there was no choice. They had to get to those soldiers. His hand briefly entwined round hers and she looked at him, giving him a short nod, before he let go and the pair of them started to walk forward, the rest of their team following as they picked up the pace and broke into a run.
 Tony and Steve were the first to collide, Tony brining down his metal encased fist onto Steve’s shield which he brought up just in time to deflect the hit. Natasha and Ant-Man went at it for the second time, whilst King T'Challa had eyes for no one else but Bucky pouncing on him immediately and tackling him down to the ground.
Katie felt something hit her back and turned, just in time for her to be launched off the floor and sent flying across the tarmac as Spiderman had caught her in his webbing, dragging her out of the fray.
“Man.” She mumbled, getting up “I hate spiders”
“Heads up!” Clint shouted and Katie ducked as he fired an arrow up at Spiderman, who dodged it easily once more. “This kid is startin’ to piss me off.” Clint muttered, aiming another arrow. This one cut right through the webbing Spider Man had been using to propel himself around and he fell to the floor, a loud crash as he collided with one of the upturned cars.
Clint jogged off towards where he had fallen, and behind Katie something exploded sending her flying into the air, fast and then she began to fall, hard. She braced herself for the impact, as the ground rose to meet her, this was going to hurt. Suddenly a metal arm curved round her waist and Bucky turned them both in mid-air, before crashing into a pile of crates. He took the brunt of the impact, Katie landing on him, back to his chest. She moved to stand up and spotted that T’Challa was leaping through the air but Sam swooped in using both feet to kick him back before flying back up into the sky.
“You alright?” Bucky asked as he got up.
“Yeah, I had a soft landing.” She smiled. “Thanks Buck.”
He gave her a quick nod before he dodged off to his left again, and it was then that Katie saw in the space he had left to her left a flash of red-hair making a sprint to the hangar.
“Damned it Nat.”  Katie mumbled as she set off at after her.
Steve found a slight reprieve in the fight and ended up pressed against the side of a set of the airport steps, looking at Bucky who was a few feet away from him.
“We got to go.” Bucky spoke earnestly “That guy’s probably in Siberia by now.”
“We’ve gotta draw out the fliers.” Steve replied, looking up before he glanced back at Bucky “I’ll take Vision, you get to the jet.”
“No, you get to the jet, I’ll take Vision.” Sam countered over the coms “The rest aren’t getting out of here.”
"As much as I hate to admit it,” Clint chimed in, “if we’re gonna win this one, some of us might have to lose it.”
“Clint’s right, this isn’t the real fight, Steve.”  Katie shot urgently, sounding a little out of breath. Instinctively, Steve glanced around for his wife, but couldn’t see her. With a bit of luck she’d found somewhere to hide. He hated this, hated that she was fighting her brother. Hell, he hated that he was fighting her brother, or any of the other Avengers for that matter. But they HAD to get to Siberia. Nothing else mattered but stopping those soldiers being unleashed.
“Alright, Sam, what’s the plan?” Steve asking, looking up.
“We need a diversion. Something big.“
"I got something kind of big,” Scott joined in suddenly. “But I can’t hold it very long. On my signal, run like hell. And if I tear myself in half, don’t come back for me.”
“He’s tearing himself in half?” Bucky frowned as he looked at Steve who shrugged.
“You’re sure about this, Scott?” Steve asked.
“I do it all the time. I mean once, in a lab. And I passed out.” Scott confirmed doing absolutely nothing to ease the Captain’s worries.
And then suddenly Steve felt something huge behind him and he spun round, stopping momentarily, his mouth dropping open. Scott had appeared out of nowhere, only now he was at least a hundred feet tall and he grabbed Rhodes in mid-air as the War Machine flew by after Sam.  
“I guess that’s the signal.” Steve looked at Bucky.
“Way to go, tic-tac!” Sam chuckled while Scott laughed.
Across the field, Katie reached the hangar and stepped inside, looking around. It was silent.
“I know you’re here Nat. I saw you come in.” With that Nat stepped out from the shadows at the side of the jet and Katie sighed. “Just listen to me. Please.” 
“I never thought Steve would let you all fight us like this.” The red head looked at her. “Not for him.”
“It’s not like that. Tony is wrong.”
“I’ve seen first-hand what the Winter Soldier can do.” And with that Nat aimed a blow at Katie. She dodged it and grabbed Natasha’s arm, using it to flip her over her head. Nat landed on her feet behind Katie, who spun round in time to see her discharge a stinger at her which she narrowly managed to avoid.
The two friends then began to fight. They grappled, dodged, punched, kicked and then by some fluke of fortune, Katie managed to get behind Natasha, wrapping her in a headlock, forearm over her throat.
“I taught you well, too well it seems.” Natasha chuckled and Katie tightened her hold a little.
“Just listen!” She pleaded “The Winter Soldier is every bit as dangerous as you say…”
“Then why are you defending him!?” Natasha yelled, twisting from underneath Katie and pinning her arm up behind her back before kicking her hard, sending her flying forward and to the floor.
“I’m not, I’m defending Bucky, but that isn’t what this is about!” Katie shook her head, as she lay on the floor. “It’s about stopping them!”
“Stopping who- what do you mean them?” Natasha asked, momentarily faltering.
“There are more.” Katie looked at her, earnestly “More Winter Soldiers. At least five.”
“I don’t believe you.”  Nat shook her head, eyes wide.
“Oh come on Nat, look at what it’s caused, why would I lie?” Katie groaned. “Bucky was framed by the Doctor that the UN let in to question him. He needed Bucky to tell him where he could find the others. And now he knows where they are, he has the power to control them. We have to stop him.”
Suddenly there was a loud crash, something had hit the metal tower outside the hangar. Nat turned towards it which was all the distraction Katie needed. She jumped up, and aimed a kick at Natasha’s right knee causing her to stumble forward. At that point Steve and Bucky burst into the hangar, and could do nothing but watch as Natasha spun round, right leg raised but Katie was ready. She grabbed Nat’s foot stopping her, so Natasha then pushed off with her left, swinging it at Katie’s head. But Katie had seen that move thousands of times and was ready. She ducked down and used the foot she had hold of to flip Nat back over. As Nat landed on her feet, Katie leapt into the air and used every inch of momentum she could muster to aim a hard double kick into Nat’s chest which sent her crashing into side of the jet. Katie landed on her back, slightly winded.
“Impressive.” Bucky had a smirk on his face as they crossed towards the women and Steve glared at him, causing Bucky to frown. “What?” “Nothing.” Steve replied, gruffly, not wanting to voice the fact that his mind had, once again, taken him back to being a jealous little punk at the most inopportune moments it could ever have chosen. He strode forward, offering his wife a hand as he pulled her up.
“You ok?”  He asked, his hand falling to the side of her neck tenderly. Katie nodded, before she spotted Natasha in the corner of her eye scrambling to her feet, arm raised, stinger aimed.
“Damned it Nat!”  Katie yelled, looking at her, pleading with her eyes. “Just trust us on this one, please!”
“You’re not gonna stop are you?”
“You know I can’t Nat.”  Steve shook his head..
“I’m gonna regret this.”
She fired a stinger, but not at any of them. Instead it sailed over Katie’s shoulder causing them to spin round and see T’Challa stumbling over.
“Go.” Nat instructed, not looking at them.
Steve glanced around at Bucky, then to Katie and opened his mouth to tell Katie to stay where she was but she cut him off before he could even start. With a shake of her head she looked at him. “I’m not staying here.”
“She’s right.” Nat shot another stinger. “If she does she’s going to jail, you need to go now.”
Steve didn’t argue again, they were going to need all the help they could get, but he wasn’t completely happy about Katie facing off against another five Super Soldiers without her suit. But he’d worry about that when they got there, hopefully he could convince her to stay on the jet.
Without so much as a glance back, they ran up the ramp onto the jet and soon they were airborne and after a tense chase involving Rhodey, Vision and Sam, they were clear, and cruising their way to Siberia.
******
Tony had made a mistake. He knew that as soon as FRIDAY had patched through the update from the Berlin police. Barnes had been telling the truth. Which meant that his sister and brother-in-law were now about to face off with five super assassins. And the thought terrified him, not so much for the two super soldier, but for Kiddo, especially she had no suit.
He had to try and make this right.
Once the helicopter was landed, he climbed out, the rough sea wind whipping his suit jacket up slightly as Ross walked out to meet him.
“So?” Tony looked at him, shifting to try and make himself a little more comfortable, the sling on his arm was already pissing him off. “Did you get the files? Let’s re-route the satellites, and start face scanning for this Zemo guy.”
“You seriously think I’m gonna listen to you after that fiasco in Leipzig?” Ross shook his head as he looked at Tony. “You’re luck you’re not in one of these cells.” He added, making Tony raise his eyebrow. He stayed quiet and followed Ross into the depth of the prison. Ross stopped outside a door which was flanked by two guards, before he turned to face him. “Now, let me make one thing clear, Stark. You’re only here because I need you to find out where Rogers has gone. And I don’t give a shit that your sister is with him.” Tony took a deep breath and held Ross’ gaze as the man continued. “But I know that you will, so it’s in your interest to find out and tell us.”
“And then what?”
“Well I got a cell waiting for them too.” Ross shrugged. “Although we might be able to come to some arrangement if they sign the Accords.”
Tony bit back the snort that was threatening to erupt from his throat, as he knew there was more chance of hell freezing over. But, instead, he took a deep breath and nodded.
“I want to know where they are too. I couldn’t give a shit about Rogers or Barnes, but Kiddo….” He trailed off and shrugged.
Ross eyed him suspiciously, before he nodded to the guards who moved to key in the code at the side of the room. “Oh, and just so you don’t get any funny ideas, I’ll be watching and listening.”
Tony saluted him, causing Ross to give a roll of his eyes before he turned and left. Tony watched him go before he nodded to the guard and entered the room, letting out sigh as he looked at each of the cells that lined the round walls. As he glanced up at the cameras, taking in their location, a slow clapping echoed across the room.
“The futurist ladies and gentlemen.” Clint called loudly and Tony turned towards the archer.  Clint didn’t even look at him as he continued sarcastically, “The futurist is here! He sees all! He knows what’s best for you, whether you like it or not.”
“Give me a break, Barton.” Tony stood in front of Clint’s cell, staring at him “I had no idea they’d put you in here.”
Clint’s spat on the floor "Yeah, well, you knew they’d put us somewhere, Tony.”
“Yeah, but, not some super max floating ocean pokey.” Tony shook his head. “You know, this place is for maniacs. This is a place for…” He trailed off.
“Criminals?” Clint bit out as he stood and faced Tony. “Criminals, Tony. I think that’s the word you’re looking for. Right? It ain’t used to mean me, or Sam, or Wanda. Yet here we are.”
“'Cause you broke the law.”
Clint snorted turning away from the bars, “Yeah.”
“I didn’t make you.” Tony pressed, even as Clint turned to walk around his small cell while muttering “Blah, blah, blah.”
“You read it,” Tony went on speaking. “You broke it.”
“Blah blah blah.” Clint continued to mutter as he turned his back on Tony
“Alright, you’re a grown up.” Tony bit back. “You’ve got a wife and kids. I don’t understand. Why didn’t you think about them before you chose the wrong side?”
Clint’s shoulders tensed in anger and he stood up but Tony had already left continuing down the cells, “You better watch your back with this guy.” He slammed his hands on the plexiglass covering the front of his cell as he shouted angrily “There’s a chance is he’s going to break it.”
Tony’s jaw ticked as he shot a glare back but he carried on walking past Scott Lang’s cell.
“Hank Pym always said you never can trust a Stark.”
“Who are you?” Tony shrugged as he continued.
“Come on, man.” Scott sighed
“How’s Rhodes?” Sam asked when Tony stopped in front of his cell, not turning around from where he was facing towards the back.
“We’re flying him to Columbia Medical tomorrow.” Tony replied. “So, fingers crossed. What do you need? They feed you yet?”
Sam turned to him revealing his black eye. “You’re the good cop now?” He asked, smirking sarcastically
“I’m just a guy who needs to know where Steve went.”
“Yeah well you’re gonna have to go Mark Fuhrman on my ass.” Sam crossed his arms over his chest defiantly.
“I figured as much.” Tony mumbled as he lifted his wrist in front of his sling and pressed a button on his watch. Sam arched an eyebrow questioningly.
“Oh, I just knocked the 'A’ out of their 'AV’.” He looked at Sam. “We got about thirty seconds before they realise it’s not their equipment.”
Sam glanced up at the camera before Tony spoke again, pressing another button on his watch flashing him her an image of the dead psychiatrist lying in a bathtub,
“Just look…because that is the fellow who was supposed to interrogate Barnes. Clearly I made a mistake. I was wrong.”
“That’s a first.” Sam muttered
“Look, Cap is definitely off the reservation and he’s about to face off against fuck knows what with my sister by his side. They’re gonna need all the help they can get.” Tony sighed “I messed up alright, I can fix this if you just-”
“Okay.” Sam sighed, “I’ll tell you, but you have to go alone, and as a friend.”
"Easy.” Tony shrugged and Sam quickly gave him the location.
With a nod, Tony headed to the room of the door, banged on it, and it swung open and he strode purposefully back towards his chopper.
“Stark, did they give you anything on Rogers?” Ross followed him.
“Nope, told me to go to hell.” Tony climbed casually into his helicopter as he added, “I’m going back to the compound instead. But, you can call me anytime. I’ll put you on hold, I like to watch the light blink.”
As soon as the prison was out of sight, Tony removed the brace off his arm and loosened his tie and then, with a short moment to contemplate what was about to happen, he took a deep breath and pressed a button on the helicopter controls, laying back as the seat collapsed beneath him while the Iron Man suit unfolded itself and attached onto him.
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Chapter 32 Part 1
**Original Posting**
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just-like-playing-tag · 4 years ago
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A bunch of people liked the post where I asked if anyone was interested in my criticism for chapter 180 and @wannabe-everythings said they wanted to read it so! Here we go I guess! I’m just posting it as it was, sorry if it’s a little messy.
Under the cut to not spam anyone who liked the chapter with useless negativity.
Ok this is the last post I’ll make about chapter 180 because I’m tired of my own negativity but I really feel like I need to clear things up:
I’m not upset because Emma has lost her memories. I mean yes ofc it’s a bit sad but I’m sure she’ll manage to reunite with her family and remember her past (or more likely not but even in that case she’ll create new memories) because their love is just that strong™
What I’m saying is that you could have had all of this, plot twist, heartbreaking chapter and everything without making Emma go for that decisions? Just have Scribbles be a jerk end not respecting the agreement, he ended up being one anyway.
I’m sorry, Emma lying to her family to me sounds so wrong character arc wise? I’ve never been let down by this series and I know it’s just a small thing (I don’t even think anybody besides from me cares), but to me it was very relevant?? I think there’s two major things about this that bother me tons:
Emma doesn’t lie.
Emma doesn’t believe in sacrifice.
I don’t know but I find these two pretty much key points of the character?
Emma doesn’t lie. Emma has learnt that lying is wrong. She has made her mistakes in the past (friendly reminder that in the manga she’s the one who came up with the idea of lying to Gilda and Don in the first arc), because she’s flawed, as all well written characters are! But she has learned from her mistakes, and that’s what makes her good. She’s not Norman you know? Norman has been lying since the start, and untill the most recent chapters he had never accepted that his lies were wrong. But she’s different.
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Emma doesn’t believe in sacrifice. She just does not. It’s been basically her most important trait since day one. She doesn’t believe in no-exit-scenarios. It made her look naïve in chapter 4, and as soon as you realize there isn’t, in fact, a single thing about her that is naïve, made her look freaking amazing. She believes that the world can be made a better place, that her family can be happy (note: she’s part of her family!!) and that they have the power to do that. They may struggle, but they have the power to be happy at the end. That’s what all the fight has been for.
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Ok now… Going from this to actively choosing to sacrifice herself????? I don’t know that doesn’t sound quite right… Emma has believed through the whole thing that when there’s no escape route, you have to create one yourself. She believed they could have escaped from GF and so they did. She believed they could find a safe place to live and so they did. She believed the GP suffering could end and so they did. She believed demons were sensible begins, she was compassionate enough to sympathize towards the race that has been eating her kind for hundreds of years, and believed they deserved to be saved, and so they did. She believed every single one from her plantation had to be prevented from being eaten, and so they did. Was it easy? Of course not! They struggled and lost many things. But still they did it. She did it. She granted happiness without compromises, because she believed in it. And now you’re telling me Demon god went “you have to sacrifice yourself” and she accepted just like that?
Also… Emma has self conscience. She isn’t vain, but she recognises her self worth as much as she does of her limits. She understands that she’s a person worth of living happily as much as any other person. It’s not a selfish thought, and honestly it’s a quality I really look up to!!!
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Again, she’s different from Norman and Ray. I don’t know it makes me feel low-key sick to think about all the talks that Emma made to both Ray and Norman about how sacrifice wasn’t the answer? Doesn’t it all sound just meaningless and empty when she decided to take that path herself?
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Ok also… She’s in no way dumb, she knows sacrificing herself is another way of precluding her family’s happiness forever. She understands she’s just as important for them as they’re for her. Then I don’t get why she would chose that?
Not to be sentimental™ and political™ and stuff but like… That’s what I like about tpn? I mean, how it kept sustaining the themes of hope, and to be able to build a happier future for yourself. That’s the main reason I had found this different from any other piece of media. There’s so many cynical, dark, the-world-sucks-humankind-sucks-and-there’s-nothing-you-can-do-about-it medias already! But medias ment for adults that display so neatly a character that no matter how cruel the world she lives in, how unfair and ruthless it is, keeps fighting for her family’s and her own happiness? That’s amazing!!! And quite unheard of as well.
What am I left with now? She had to sacrifice something about herself. She decided to give up on her own happiness. That’s sad indeed, but… Also pretty unoriginal? I mean, I’ve already read this story.
The only thing I can see is Emma deciding to sacrifice herself only because she was *sure* she would have been able to reunite with her family because she believes in the power of their love™ and stuff. But still that doesn’t make up for how she lied and nnghh… I still find it terribly ooc…
Tl;dr: Emma deserves happiness for herself 😭😭😭
I just hope she can be happy with her family again because that’s what she deserves.
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That being said, basically my sole consolation about this is that someone else was able to enjoy the chapter, even when I disliked it! If you’ve got any criticisms / think there’s things I haven’t considered please feel free to discuss them with me, because I’m trying really hard to find a way this makes sense for Emma’s character but right now I’m miserably failing 😔
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langernameohnebedeutung · 4 years ago
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(2/2)Mann who writes himself into EVERY one of his novels, usually as this cynic and, quite frankly, unlikable ‘writer genius’ who hates about everyone except the pretty waiters at his favorite restaurant. Or Dostoyevsky who’s selfinserts are always . A complete mess. Or Kafka who’s inserts are even more of a mess AND die horribly. And ofc Since you mentioned Moby Dick there’s also Melville who just straight up unashamedly ships his insert with a handsome buff sailor. That’s so much more fun imo
Just first up: The first half of your ask disappeared once again on, I read it, I drafted it to answer and then it was gone, but I read it and I remember most of my answer to it. You may wonder why I drafted an ask again after the last one disappeared and the answer is because I’m a god-damn moron.
I think the negative opinion people have about self-inserts today has a lot to do with the way people learn writing these days and I think it's especially prominent among writers who either write fanfiction or come into original writing from fanfiction. Many people either read tips or read books on writing and this advice is usually all about 'do-s' and 'don't's in my experience, and I'm not sure that's helpful. But one big Don't is Mary Sue's, self-inserts, because (according to these tips) they might be over-powered or something.
And this makes sense to a certain degree especially from a fanfiction point of view. It is boring if someone who doesn't know any of the characters and their world waltzes in and solves their problems in ten minutes flat as if everyone else had just been morons who couldn't have figured that out for themselves. But I think that's a problem on plot-level not on the character level. It says nothing about the character and whether they are good. They might be interesting. They may be a flat, boring character completely unrelated to the plot. Rather, you should ask yourself if it really makes sense for the character to assemble all the necessary information to solve that problem as quickly as they do. And whether you have properly introduced their means of doing so in a way that makes them relatable to the audience. And obviously, causing problems for your characters that they have to work to overcome is also a part of writing, so you have to ask yourself if you made life difficult enough for them.
The thing is, we live in the age of super-heroes, media-wise, not even just literal ones. Many of the most popular fictional characters are in many ways Mary Sues. And we often talk about how YA novels are very popular among adults as well. And since YA novels often have a young main-character managing feats no one would have expected of them and surviving against the odds, I think it's fair to say that people do want to see that and that they do want to see the unlikely candidate triumph, even if it means cutting some corners regarding how likely it is.
But the problem is that young writers are told to avoid these types of characters and the examples are usually the typical Mary Sue and the typical Mary Sue has certain attributes: stereotypically a good-looking young woman with a minor ‘flaw’, inconspicuous at first but suddenly a badass, not terrified of the big villains etc. So people are often discouraged from using this type of character in general and it's the character itself instead of the plot that is treated as bad writing. And people tend to take this sort of writing advice not only as something that is supposed to help them write but also a tool to judge something already is written and they decide that the existence of a character fitting this description in some shape or form is already a sign that the work is bad. That`s why, the moment someone doesn’t like a particular work, they point towards these characters while they probably like a lot of similar characters in other media. 
Now, your original ask (rip ask) was about writer-inserts rather than self-inserts so maybe this answer might seem off topic, but you mentioned Hermoine Granger as JK Rowling's self-insert, which got me thinking about this question why some are rejected and others are not.
Many people - especially young women - insist that Hermoine was a very important character to them and that they related to her growing up. And I think there is a good reason why the common reaction was: “Hey this girl reminds me of me!” rather than: “Hey, that’s clearly JK Rowling!” Because she is defined by traits that are common experiences. In fact, I would argue that she is even made accessible for the audience to relate to. 
JK Rowling was a teacher. She could have easily made her surrogate a teacher-character in Hogwarts. She could have made it someone her age. It could have been a side-character. But Hermoine is a main-character and in the same age-group as our other main-characters. She’s a pupil, like most of the intended audience. And her experiences are some that are very relatable to many people: She is very intelligent and eager to learn, but people make fun of her for it or are annoyed. She is socially awkward and even bullied. She is insecure about her looks. 
But then, there are also some validating messages in all of this: Her intelligence and knowledge are eventually appreciated and frequently help the heroes save the day. She finds true friends. Men fall in love with her. For the exercise of this ask, I’m going to coin this an ‘open-door’ writer-insert. Open-door, because JK basically invites the readers to identify with her, because Hermoine’s characterisation is dominated by traits that JK shares with many people - not super-exclusive traits like how she likes her tea or sharing her favourite musician. Instead, she goes to extra-length to make this character accessible to her intended audience.
Also, when people talk about relating to fictional characters and Harry Potter in particular, they often point out how it helped them through dark times. Especially now many people write about how Rowling’s views affect their memories of their own childhood, because these books provided them with comfort when they were struggling. My point here is, we don’t relate to characters in that way because we solved our own problems. We relate to them because their struggles resemble our own, not their solutions. In fact, seeing that these fictional characters stay strong and that they find a happy-end is part of why they are able to provide comfort and I think that’s a function that is very particular to these open-door inserts: They tell us we can make it, because they already did.
As a different example, someone else who is very famous for working his own identity into his own characters is Stephen King and his endless string of Main-based authors with personal demons. Misery, for example, is based on his own experiences when fans hounded him over writing a fantasy book rater than the horror they’ve come to expect of him once (as well as his cocaine addiction). But in my opinion, his characters ‘close the door’ rather than open it, because they are very much defined by King’s own personality. I’m not going to make an argument whether that’s better or worse writing, I just think it provides different opportunities and changes the intention. I don’t know (m)any people who read Stephen King novels because the main-characters gave them such hope and strength in their darkest times. And King doesn’t change his insert to match the experiences of his intended audience. 
If you think about Misery, his readers do get a role - that of the insane fan torturing the author to write a work that matches their expectations. Basically, neither of these characters are supposed to make us think: “Wow this is absolutely me and the way they experience the world is absolute relatable to me!” The way we relate to King’s character is by seeing the world through his eyes and facing the problems he does. It’s about their survival rather than the question if they will grow through the experience. 
The main-character of Misery survives, but at the end he’s still struggling with the injuries inflicted on him as well as with alcoholism to make-up for the pain-medication she forced on him. Hermoine ends up being happy and successful. Now, if we were to switch these around, and Hermoine ended up a miserable alcoholic, I’m not sure she would still have been as much of a comfort-character to teenagers and if the main-character of Misery had remained strong and stubborn through it all and ended up well-adjusted and happy, I don’t think the novel would have packed quite the same punch. Because the intentions behind these characters are different, despite them both being writer inserts.
I think another character who is interesting (in that regard) is Bella Swan from Twilight. Now, Stephanie Meyer never officially said that this is her surrogate, but I want to point something out. This is something she says on her website:
I left out a detailed description of Bella in the book so that the reader could more easily step into her shoes. [...] In my head, Bella is very fair-skinned, with long, straight, dark brown hair and chocolate brown eyes. Her face is heart-shaped—a wide forehead with a widow’s peak, large, wide-spaced eyes, prominent cheekbones, and then a thin nose and a narrow jaw with a pointed chin. Her lips are a little out of proportion, a bit too full for her jaw line. Her eyebrows are darker than her hair and more straight than they are arched. She’s five foot four inches tall, slender but not at all muscular, and weighs about 115 pounds. 
Now, this is a photo of Stephanie Meyer:
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According to google, she is...5′4. As I said, this is somewhat speculation on my part, but I’m not the first person to point out these similarities. There are so biographical similarities for example that Meyer, raised in Phoenix,  used to feel unpopular at a school and it changed when she moved, according to what I learnt doing a google search on her. 
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not like other girls alert
There has already been talked a lot about Twilight and Meyer’s religious origins in the LDS-church (what many people know as Mormon church) and how Bella’s growth and progression as a character and the decisions she makes seem to line up with those in many ways (marriage, family, not aborting a baby that kills her, sex only after the wedding etc.), but since we can speculate in which way or degree Meyer personally shares these ideas and and thinks of them for herself (aka I’m too lazy to google and learn more stuff about Stephanie Meyer), I’m just going to leave the fact that Bella happily attains a very conservative idea of female happiness at the end of her journey (if you disregard the vampire thing).
What I would like to point out is that this character shares a lot of traits with her - physical traits, biography etc. - while at the same time, she says she wanted to leave the character open for the reader to relate to and to identify with her. 
In my last ask on the subject, I talked about the way the third person narrator is thinning out in many novels as a distinct entity and is more and more becoming one with the POV-character. Bella is obviously a first person narrator. Now, you did mention Moby Dick, and we have the same thing here: A first person narrator sharing their experiences with the author. But even the first person narrator is a very distinct entity here. Not that Melville himself makes an appearance, but that Ishmael is very clear about the fact the is telling us a story. Which is how we know he is going survive the journey, because he still there, afterwards, to tell us about his trip.
The famous first sentence of Moby Dick is: “Call me Ishmael. Some years ago—never mind how long precisely—having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world.” He makes it clear that this has happened in the past, he talks to the reader directly (call me Ishamel) as if in conversation and then goes on.
He also makes it clear that he is writing about a past events at a different point of events:
“He had been a sailor and a harpooneer in his youth, but for many years past had dedicated his life to the ministry. At the time I now write of, Father Mapple was in the hardy winter of a healthy old age.”
Now, here’s the preface to the first Twilight novel:
“I'd never given much thought to how I would die — though I'd had reason enough in the last few months — but even if I had, I would not have imagined it like this. I stared without breathing across the long room, into the dark eyes of the hunter, and he looked pleasantly back at me. Surely it was a good way to die, in the place of someone else, someone I loved. Noble, even. That ought to count for something. I knew that if I'd never gone to Forks, I wouldn't be facing death now. But, terrified as I was, I couldn't bring myself to regret the decision. When life offers you a dream so far beyond any of your expectations, it's not reasonable to grieve when it comes to an end. The hunter smiled in a friendly way as he sauntered forward to kill me.” 
After this, the first chapter starts and we are immediately with Bella on her way to the airport, she tells us why she is going to Forks, what Forks is, why she is leaving and so on. There are also two points in time here, but they are employed differently and for different reasons:
Bella is constructed in a way for us to relate to her and identify with her - Meyer says that herself that she even held back on talking about her looks in order to make her accessible to the reader - so using a first person narrator opens the door for us. The future point in time in the preface creates suspense - she says she is about to die and that’s what we prepare ourselves for during the story (even if we assume she might survive after all, we know she will be in danger and we know that she will sacrifice herself for someone she loves).
Moby Dick has a first person narrator, because it’s Ishmael writing down his story for us to read. On a technical level, we take his perspective, but we are provided with an in-story reason for the first person narrator. And while we can at least speculate that Bella might die, if we know nothing else about the franchise or the genre when we encounter that preface, we also know from the first sentence on that Ishmael is going to survive, because ‘he’ has written down this story for us. And by giving an in-story reason for a first person narrator, the story is already closing the door a little by saying: ‘this is a distinct character and you are reading his story, that’s why it uses I/me pronouns’. 
Now, I already mentioned that I found it interesting that JK’s self insert is a pupil rather than a teacher and that she is younger than JK. The same thing happens with Bella the Meyer-look-alike: She is a student and pupil, like the target audience, going through experiences that Meyer did in her youth. And for her as well, things work out. She is a principled character, finds friends, boys fight over her and she ends up finding an immortal, perfect, beautiful family she becomes part of. 
Beauty is an interesting thing in Twilight, btw, in my opinion. The way Meyer describes Bella (literally named Beauty and aftera Bird symbolising Beauty), she is quite good-looking with some ‘flaws’, like her lips being ‘too full for her face’. Now, there is nothing wrong with having full lips, obviously, but Meyer says ‘a bit too full for her face’ and I think this is already part of the typical traits of an open-door author-insert in my opinion: They are a little it ‘too’ this or ‘too’ that to be perfect models, but they’re also rarely described as actually ugly. Hermoine has teeth that are too long (magicked away after that teeth growing accident) and is always mentioned to have ‘bushy hair’. Bella is also said to be very pale, even comparing herself to an albino (you know, because Meyer went to such length to make her character’s looks relatable to everyone). Pale skin is at odds with the sun-kissed other-girls in Phoenix and symbolises Bella’s otherness in many ways, that she isn’t like what Meyer calls the ‘barbies’.
The fact that pale = beautiful in Twilight and that beauty is important becomes very obvious when dealing with the Cullens:
“And yet, they were all exactly alike. Every one of them was chalky pale, the palest of all the students living in this sunless town. Paler than me, the albino. They all had very dark eyes despite the range in hair tones. They also had dark shadows under those eyes — purplish, bruiselike shadows.As if they were all suffering from a sleepless night, or almost done recovering from a broken nose. Though their noses, all their features, were straight, perfect, angular. But all this is not why I couldn't look away. I stared because their faces, so different, so similar, were all devastatingly, inhumanly beautiful. They were faces you never expected to see except perhaps on the airbrushed pages of a fashion magazine. Or painted by an old master as the face of an angel. It was hard to decide who was the most beautiful — maybe the perfect blond girl, or the bronzehaired boy.”
They are good beautiful - sullen, mysterious. Not bad beautiful: frivolous, talkative, loud, dumb. And they’re also not beautiful with a minor flaw - but beautiful with no flaw. 
Bella Swan acquires that beauty by the end and becomes one of them - once her transformation into a vampire is complete. Hermoine also transforms - and turns from the nerd girl into a confident, strong young woman and played a major role in defeating the people who discriminated against her in her youth. 
I described these sort of characters as open-door characters. They bear strong resemblance to the author in Bella’s case and Hermoine is the declared author-insert for Rowling, but these authors went to extra length to make them accessible to the reader to identify with them. Basically, the author invited the reader to enter that open door. 
The fact that they have positive endings and that the struggles that the reader relates to are dissolved (satisfying or not) provides comfort. I already mentioned that with the whole thing that is going on with Rowling, a lot of people write about their own experiences with Harry Potter. And I’ve not seen people write: “I liked these books because the characters solved their problems like I did or because I, too, grew up to be happy” - they say they related in their darkest time, when they were feeling down and when there were no solutions to their problems in sight. These characters are designed to offer hope and advice and remind you that these traits you share with them or that you assume you share with them are good and something to be proud of and they tell you that you can succeed. I already said that it would have been very dissatisfying if Hermoine had ended up like Paul Sheldon. Even worse if they had actually been killed off: Basically, that would have been the equivalent of the author inviting the reader through that open door and then hitting them over the head with  a hammer. That would have been...kafkaesk.
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Heh. Transitions.
You already mentioned Kafka’s tendency to kill off his main-characters. With Kafka, things are always quite complex and there are so many different interpretations and takes on his work and its meaning. It’s important to keep in mind that he is a modernist and the reader is ‘invited’ to actively interpret the text, figure things out, make sense of things and notice contradictions. 
Metamorphosis can easily be concluded to draw on Kafka’s own problems with his family and his father. His works are always filled with obstacles that are both insurmountable and banal, drawn from reality and yet surreal. Nothing hits home like reading Der Prozess or Das Schloss while you’re too mentally slouched to deal with the last ten incomprehensible letters you got from your local Verbandsgemeindeverwaltung. „Die Fessel der gequälten Menschheit sind aus Kanzleipapier,” indeed, Franz, indeed. (”The chain of the tormented human race are made of office paper”)
I wanted to look at Metamorphosis specifically, because for one, it’s one where it’s most easily arguable that family situation very closely resembles Kafka’s own. Also I already mentioned that the open-door author-inserts usually undergo a transformation (did I already mention that this is the age of super-heroes?) of some form. There is an old debate over whose metamorphosis Die Verwandlung is actually about - Gregor Samsa’s or that of his sister? While Samsa wastes away, his sister turns into a strong young woman - much like Bella or Hermoine. And yet many people see her betrayal of Gregor as the 'big’ one, the ultimate act of betrayal that destroys Gregor and of her even as the actual villain of the story rather than the father. There is also the general metamorphosis of his relationships- for example his sister’s social position in the family is better now that Gregor is an insect and his father has far more power over him than before.
Gregor Samsa has very relatable fears, concerns and anxieties: He has a hard job and he does it to support his family. He yearns for the love of his family. This is something a lot of people can relate to. After he turns into the Ungeziefer, he not only learns that his family had savings, they also treat him worse and worse now that they he is no longer feeding them.
If we consider Gregor Samsa as an open-door character - someone sharing similarities with the author who has been designed to be accessible for the reader to relate to - we also have to ask ourselves: Is he a comfort character? A comforting message would be if he fought back, found someone who loved him even in his Ungeziefer-form and he had built a life for himself somewhere.
But Samsa doesn’t fight back, he desires his family’s love no matter how badly they treat him and until he wastes away after his sister says he needs to go. Samsa's story isn’t about growth or learning or overcoming obstacles. He is constantly wasting away - so if we consider him a character open to project ourselves on, he’s not one intended to be comforting because that’s not the point of the story. His love for his family is not some secret super-power that overcomes all difficulties, it’s his weakness.
His situation is also not an every day situation like going to school - it’s a highly surreal one being turned into an Ungeziefer. He gets turned into a strange creature, he is confined into a single room etc. I already mentioned that Kafka had a tendency to erase certain information while editing his works - for example, an earlier draft of The Castle contained K. musing: ‘In this way I was fighting not the others but rather myself”, but Kafka took it out for the reader to come to that conclusion. And with a situation like Samsa’s, we can also make up our own mind about who his struggle is with and what everything means and - if we identify with him - what our Ungeziefer-state is, what our Lady in Fur is, what our Abstellkammer would look like, who our father is and sister etc..
But the whole thing is - you don’t read Kafka because his characters are so fascinating. He didn’t want them to be complex and fascinating. He went out of his way to make them less so and you already said, it’s pretty much the opposite of a character like Hermoine. It goes very deep into the realm of speculation which author based which traits of what character on themselves for what reasons or if it was voluntary or not, but I think the way people do it has a lot to do with genre, writing style, audience etc. and I thing right now is a time where a lot of fiction is all about making a change, growing having happy ends. If you look around tumblr for writing advice, sad endings are often criticised as cynical, edgy and depressing. People complain about gritty characters. Wholesome escapism is simply very popular right now and that’s why self-inserts, imo, are going to be wholesome and escapist. But specifically when talking about self-inserts, a wholesome positive self-insert is going to collide with the expectation that such self inserts are bad writing.
I also think big names play a role. JKR is a big name in fiction and Harry Potter is a big deal for our generation - the “read a different book!” meme pretty much illustrates the huge monopoly Harry Potter has for us. I’d argue that Harry Potter, while not a self-insert, also has a lot of Mary Sue traits, but because he’s a male character and not Rowling’s self-insert, he already escapes quite a lot of criticism. I’m pretty sure if Harry Potter had a female main-character, there would have been much more criticism, especially if the main-character had publicly said that this was her self-insert. 
If you think about the works of Mann and Melville and Kafka, these are classics today, so they aren’t really subject to the trend of being wholesome and heroic. And King is a brand of himself, by himself and his name stands for a certain brand of fiction and a certain style of writing and a certain type of characters.
Twilight has become an acceptable thing to dislike, because it was liked by teenage girls (so the dudebro fraction likes it) and it’s restrictive and conservative and pretentious enough for its own fans to outgrow and no longer defend it. People did criticise the main-character especially, for being bland, helpless, only caring about her bf etc. but I think if Twilight had never taken off the way it did, it would have been forgotten among many other cheesy love stories. But it hit the right nail a the right time, took off and then the wind abruptly changed and people specifically disliked this kind of character and found it ‘cringy’ - I actually wanted to say something on the subject of cringe-culture but I forgot, but let it be said, I think it also plays a big role that being cringy has become such a big crime and that a self-insert means that you can accuse the author themselves of being cringy so that too might influence the opinions on making self-inserts. 
Either way, I think it has a lot to do with this sort of immunity timeless classics have and also with genre - because it puts a YA-hero spin on the self insert and those are usually characters who are in the same age bracket as the intended audience, have similar problems (romance) etc. and usually these stories have a happy end as well.
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