#tpn analysis

[lonely-cereal]

A small analysis about the psychological aspects of "The Promised Neverland's." world and how messed up it is

I'm reading TPN light novels and listening to September's Instrumental (sparky deathcap) and it's raining and I'm starting to realize how terrifying yet beautiful living in that world would be. A beautiful life, wonderful friends and a loving mother. You don't know anything about the bad parts of the world. It's you, your friends and your family awaiting the world that will never come. You'll never face the horrors humans outside know and face everyday. Until the very end, you lived a life most would die for -- a happy and rich life full of smiles.

But once you find out the truth, Life isn't just "wake up eat play games and imagine with my friends." it's being consumed by death and knowing yours is lingering right in front of you. You,a mere child, learning the hard way that life isn't perfect as you thought it was. To learn to mask your emotions, to keep secrets, to know deep down that You will never, ever, be able to change this system. You can only run away, or join the system. No matter how much you run from your fate of being eaten, The generations to come will suffer the same fate your older siblings did.

Your only option is to run, or to serve them. To assist the cycle you hated so much, or to leave it all behind.

unless, somehow, your wish comes true, it's a cycle of lies, death, rivalry, and fear.

the idyllic world everyone else knows, if you really had no other choice, makes giving up not seem like the worst option.

You were happy, weren't you?

(for my TPN Mutuals, if you have anything to add please do. Topics like these interest me and Promised Neverland is perfect for this)

[questiontocertaintyofreality]

Norman's Reason of Murder, Analysis

(Inclued Ray and Emma too but mainly Norman)

Norman decides he must kill the demons because it's the only way his family can survive when there's truly no Neverland to escape to. Those who insult hard on Norman for murder overlook this: Norman was dying, and before he died, he wanted to leave a world to live in for the people he valued most in life and for whom he had worked for years. He thought he had no other choice, he would bear the price of this murder, he should bear this burden. All of these come from the responsibility and sense of justice he has felt since childhood. Just like Ray decides he can take the burden of killing people when Minerva's first shelter is found. "I am ready to carry this burden."

Because Ray has been carrying the burden of the truth for years. Emma was also ready to take on the burden of every child she encountered and the responsibility of her life. Even if Emma's failure meant the children would die, Emma did not consider failing. The burden Norman is trying to carry is the same as Emma and Ray, but unlike the two of them, Norman sees himself as deformed after Lambda. He thinks that no matter what he does, they will not accept him as his old, true self, but Ray was thinking almost the same. (Did i mention i love norray). Ray believed that he had no place with his family and that he had to die at the end of the 6-year plan because Ray think their family doesn't show him understood because Ray watched their siblings die for years and they might thought Ray's humanity was destroyed. But there wasn't a rule for humanity in that world. Ray had Emma by his side to shake him, but Norman didn't have Emma at first. I want to hug Emma, she needs to shake me too. Emma, on the other hand, could push herself up, her psychological endurance at a level I could never have imagined.

Back at Norman, he was deathly afraid of ever hoping again, believing that his plans and dreams were destroyed forever so he afraid to trust Emma and Ray about Mujika, afraid to believe there was another world. He think, he dissapointed hard after this and all of his family die. Norman wasn't bad, Isabella wasn't bad, they never were. Because when all the information you have about the outside world is likely to be fake, when you have spent years surrounded by lies and the truth is hitting you like a slap in the face, you cannot learn to do something that society deems evil because you aren't learn "act evil for gain" If one sheep bites another while running through the meadows, will we call it bad? It's not the same as a murder in the world we live.

In this panel Norman says : I hope in your next life, you enjoy life like a human.

They never carried like humans.

Norman get away too, too much suffering and try to create a world humans can live. Norman is right

Also

They feel peace in this panel because they were accepted, they were each other and they feel incalculable trust for each other

[valenteal]

Okay so I just got into The Promised Neverland, the anime, I adore season 1. It was beautiful and heartbreaking and hopeful and unique. Season 2 isn’t half as enjoyable but I think this for different reasons than most people.

Everyone else is like ‘oh no they skipped over so much of the manga’ and I’m just like????? No??? Because the way I see it the whole Lambda thing is a cop out that makes exactly 0 logical sense. After season one they lost the plot. Simple as that. They did irrational things for the sake of drama.

I mean think about it, they didn’t want to actually kill Norman so they came up with this elaborate experimental plantation but it doesn’t make sense. Norman was the cream of the crop, the one they were looking forward to, they wouldn’t keep him alive and experiment on him and possibly make him inedible. When we farm animals do we do that?! It’s illogical. If they were trying to clone him I might get it but they weren’t. And then when Norman goes crazy from the torture (because drama!) part of his arguments is that the demons in charge want to maintain the status quo. They’re supposedly very happy with the current system. If that were the case they wouldn’t be doing those experiments at the cost of their best product!

And don’t even get me started on the whole ‘eating humans to be intelligent’ thing. Like… that’s not… where did that even come from!? But oh wait! There’s this super convenient solution! It’s so convoluted but also so forced, like… that isn’t how biology works. I get that this is a fantasy world but that’s too far.

If it were me, I’d have season 1 stay the same and just scrap season 2 for parts. I actually like Sonju, even if his appearance is a bit deus ex machina. His motivation for helping them is interesting and I think he creates a unique situation for the kids. I like the religious fanatic angle, and I like the kids having a mentor. If they’d just let things continue organically instead of forcing it… I mean Ray isn’t stupid, he wouldn’t carve the coordinates where enemies would see. He would have at least used code. They could have stayed at the base thing and built a freaking safe haven and then launched a quiet war against the farms. Guerrilla warfare, slowly rescuing more and more kids, building more bases. Do it realistically, none of this ‘one chemical weapon solves all our problems’ and ‘but wiping them out is wrong!’ quick fixes and simple plans stopped only by moral dilemmas. It too simplified but they try to disguise it with all the drama. It’s okay we took the cowards road and didn’t kill Norman cause he’s so traumatized we can barely recognize him! It’s okay we’re pulling easy solutions out of our asses because they trigger moral strife and end in the main characters struggling to choose the path of light! Drama!

Look, I haven’t read the manga yet but I don’t know how much more I would’ve liked it. It doesn’t matter if we get more context, it’s still just burying the plot holes and cop outs in more drama. We don’t need a simple answer, that’s not how systemic oppression is fixed, that’s not how war and rebellion works. There are plenty of ways they could have gone. Hell there are other, better ways they could save Norman! His shipment was abnormal and unscheduled, Isabella could have saved him or Minerva and his followers, something else, anything else.

I have feelings about this. Season 1 was amazing. Season 2 was just full of familiar cop outs disguised as “plot twists.” It was disappointing. This series had real potential.

[darklight-owl]

"Mom, why did you give birth to me?" "To survive." how did this exchange come out of a shonen anime. The shonen genre is known for being sexist as Hell how does this one just Get It.

[sepiamestus]

speaking as someone who has a lot of #controversial opinions about fictional characters i can't stand seing my fellow haters put their haterisms on positive posts about said character. You're not being a hater you're just being an asshole. Make a seperate post

[esthelle-wanders]

OLIVER AND NORMAN

If they had interacted more, and earlier, I would have loved to see their dynamic as two different kinds of leaders— and how they both contrast Emma.

As it is, though, I appreciate this exchange. Oliver’s stepping in as one of the oldest people there, he’s providing a place of reason and stability— but he’s doing it in the gentlest possible way. He’s not bossing anyone around—he’s addressing Norman as one might address a student, or even a younger sibling, without disrespecting Norman’s leadership. By starting with a reflection on Emma’s character and agency, he also addresses everybody’s feelings about her and directs them towards the healthiest and most productive source.

And it WORKS. Norman calms down, answers in kind, and from then on, everybody’s on the right track.

That’s pretty cool, not least because this is one of the first situations in a VERY long time that Norman hasn’t had to be the most emotionally mature person in the room, even rooms that contain older teenagers and adults.

I’m going to credit a lot of this to Demizu, for the expressions. She took every detail she was given and played it up, and when there weren’t details, she invented her own.

i would pay so much money for them to meet

LOOK AT THEIR PARALLELS!!!! LOOK AT TTTTHHHHHHEEEEEMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

[sillyghostnerd]

i love you teenage boys with white hair who get separated from the main character for years and then when they get reunited are leading this whole underground society of children they saved that’s based in a giant tree

[fullscoreshenanigans]

Your analyses are the best. They are so fun to read and I over think everything afterwarrs

Thank you!

For analyses above my level, I highly recommend checking out these if you haven't already read them:

The two chapters of Kei Toda's Reading The Promised Neverland with a British/American Literature Scholar (2020) that have been translated into English by fans (Chapter 2: Religion by @thathilomgirl & @0hana0fubuki0 | Chapter 3: Gender by @1000sunnygo)

Anime Feminist's "Emma’s Choice: The gender-norm nightmare at the heart of The Promised Neverland" article (2018) (good follow-up to Toda's chapter on gender)

Jackson P. Brown's "Thoughts on… The Promised Neverland, and Black Women in Manga" (2018) blog post and Zeria's video essay/blog post (2019) on Krone's depiction

Jairus Taylor's "The Unfulfilled Potential of The Promised Neverland Anime" (2021) which made me more open to the idea of a remake of S1

For tumblr posts (some of these I'm linking through my blog because I either had a minor link addition or think the OP's/prev's tags deserve to be seen and rebloggable, but you can just click through to the original post):

@puff-poff's exploration of the demon world's culture (Part 1 & Part 2)

@just-like-playing-tag's examination of the farm system, Emma character analysis launched by a minute change in S2e02, and mini-Isabella analysis regarding her treatment of Ray (along with her blog just being a wealth of knowledge in general)

@hylialeia's post on the series' handling of Norman's plan/the oppressed and oppressors

@avadescent's analysis of the S2 ED album art (Norman and Emma are perpendicular; Emma and Ray are parallel.)

@linkspooky has a lot of analyses from when the series was running but special mention to this analysis of Norman's character

@vobomon also has a lot but special mention to her Norman is autistic and Norman has PTSD posts

@goldiipond's "Ray is autistic" essay

@emmaspolaroid with some of the best Emma and Emma & Isabella meta in general

@nullaby's post on Isabella and Ray's relationship

[ralibo14]

TPN season I rewatch:

This post will contain many and I mean MANY SPOILERS from season 1. Please if you're new to Promised Neverland do not read this🥺🥰. (There might be multiple parts of this but I don't care😅)

Crazy how many things you can find to the fifth rewatch. Crazy how thrilled and emotional f-ed up I can still get after this. Not my first rodeo, but oh boy... Did I ugly cried. But that's not what we're here for... So let's get into the things what the rewatch made me realise. I paused like in every 3 minutes, there will be many screenshots.

Breaking down the episodes + the fricking foreshadowings:

Crazy how many things first watchers miss. I feel myself stupid just by thinking back that I was also this clueless. (past me would call me crazy if I told her what will happen 🤣🤣🤣)

Episode 1;

Starts idillic, then slowly you start to realise that something is off. What are these overcomplicated tests? Why is there numbers on the kids neck? What is going on? These are most likely the questions first watchers ask themselves (at least I did back then). Now I start to get it how Ray might felt as he began to realise the Houses's secret.

Through this episode you can feel that something is off, then everything goes south once Emma and Norman goes to the Gate.

Now as a rewatcher I saw Little Bunny left on the table and my mind immediately thought of the manga (chapter 180.1), which made it way sadder. Also Ray's reactions makes so much more sense like this.

Not to talk about the test scores.

First picture the older kids and the second is Norman's list about the younger kids. Of course Full Score Trio on the top of the list. Norman most likely never made a mistake, not even in his first test. My personal opinion that Ray had one 'bad' test and Emma had not more than two. I find it so unfair that Gilda and Don are rarely mentioned when we are talking about the scores like... Their scores are pretty good too. But the biggest suprise for me was Phil's archivments (2nd picture). Only spotted now, but damn... Make way for the next genius. No wonder Emma decided that she tells Phil about the escape. She knew what she was doing and who to thrust with the information. After all she was raised by Isabella and just like Norman's and Ray's case, she also developed similar mannerisms as Mom. In Emma's case that would be manipulating others, only difference the she uses it for good.

Episode 2;

Is full of foreshadowing if you know what you're looking for. The tone of the series is not as intense here than it will be around episode 9 or 10, so clues can easily fly under our radar. Take this scene as an example.

Purplish lightning? Isabella and Ray on the screen during that? I wanted to bang my head into the wall when I connected these together. Lots of things hidden in this episode from Ray's and Isabella's relationship to the clues of the season's ending.

Also the Full Score Trio already deserves an Oscar for their acting. Norman and Emma for being able to change their expressions in the matter of seconds and Ray for making them believe that he only discovered the truth now.

Emma being strong enough to hug Mom after discovering the truth and being a total girlboss with the "I wonder what Connie is doing right now" line. It will always be one of the MOST ICONIC lines in this series!

While Ray in this episode being like: “Act fool. Act fool. Act fool” 😂😂😂

Episode 3 - 10;

Why did I separated ep 1 and 2 like this? Because those episodes deserve their own spotlight. They give the base tone of the whole season. I don't say that ep3 to ep10 is not important. Heck no! All episodes deserve the spotlight but I don't want to bore anyone to death😅.

In episode 3 the arrival of Carol and Sister Krone. When I first saw this episode, I just froze into my spot. Now I realise how useful it was to the team. And since Isabella requested a helper, she unintentionally (or maybe intentionally) helped the Trio's plan and helped them, so they make it to the excape.

Sister Krone was a dangerous enemy but also a useful ally. Her motivation was a bit selfish (to become a mom) but I justify them because being a Sister or Mom means that your life is always on the line. [Please check out @fullscoreshenanigans page, her posts and reblogs can explain it better than mines] Also is it just me or does someone else think that Krone had a miscarriage? I don't know why this crossed my mind. Maybe it's the way she shares everything with her old doll somehow made me think of that.

Interesting how the Sister got threatened by both Isabella and Ray in the same episode.

Isabella using the Mom position as a bait for Krone was just perfect. She has years of practice in how to manipulate people's emotions so holding this bait out for the Sister was child play for her.

That Tag where the Trio was against Krone... Oh the memories... The Sister accuratly listing their strengths and weaknesses and also hinting that she knows about their plans. That gave me the thrills when I first watched. Then she lost the game when Ray told her that her time is up (One word; FORESHADOWING!) Actually double foreshadowing at that.

Firstly Ray's pocket watch; That was a gift from Isabella, (like Connie's Little Bunny). He got that gift so he can count the time until his shipment... or at least that's what Mom told him. I think we can all agree that deep down she didn't meant it. Isabella is a good actor but she just pretended to be their enemy.

[Side note: Is it just me or does anyone else thinks, that Ray's pocket watch and Isabella's tracking device looks awfully similar?]

Second foreshadowing? Krone's death. Oh how painful it is to know that it was Ray, who unintentionally, but sentenced her to death.

Why do I think that? Well, in the later episodes, when they have to get Krone out of the picture, Ray writes down something for her. It took me a couple of rewatches to realise that he wrote down his and Isabella's biggest secret... that they are related. Now that the secret got leaked Isabella had to permanently get rid off Krone.

I think Isabella told Grandma in advance that the Sister knows her secret and let Grandma do the dirty work. (But my logic is not flawless, since I only have the tpn artbook and not the mystic code book).

There's many think I could and should talk about... Like how underappreciated Gilda, Don, Anna, Nat and the others are in this season, but I will leave that to the Character Brainrots. However there's one thing which I must talk about regarding to season 1.

Saving Norman!

This two! They only had to exchange one look to let each other know that;

“Yeah, there's no way we let that smart, stupid idiot sacrifice himself”

Oh boy, they were desperate. Emma and Ray are soulmates and right now I don't mean romantical soulmates, because friends and family also can be someone's soulmate.

What I meant to say with this is, that they would try anything in their power to get Norman safely out of the House. They are focusing on the same goal and would do anything to archive it.

So when they plan out loud between the three of them and Emma says that;

“Ray, let's break your leg too”

(Btw, For me this is the third most iconic line from Emma XD. The reactions from the boys is hilarious too🤣)

The black haired boy immediately, without zero hesitation agrees. This is how desperate Ray was. He would have gladly broke his own leg or arm just to make his version of the escape plan succeed. Which plan of course fully crumbles when Norman comes back from the wall, telling them that there's a huge Cliff and it's impossible to go through.

Their last hug in the House is so bittersweet as I rewatcher, because I know it's not the last time they see each other but still... I bawled my eyes out again.

Emma being utterly shocked, refusing to let Norman go. Which causes her to almost ruin their plans at the final goodbye. Trying to deactivate Norman's tracker when Isabella was watching was a really risky idea. But that's what makes Emma, Emma. Just like Krone said, her weakness is caring too much for the others.

Norman on the other hand already accepted the fact that he will die (Spoiler: he won't). Although his calmness is just an act, deep down he wants to escape as desperately as his friends want it. Norman keeps his calm for Emma's and Ray's sake.

And at last but not least Ray. He is clearly on the verge of a mental breakdown. First thing I noticed was his eyes. Maybe it was a conscious action, maybe it was just because of the yellowish background, but his eyes look more purple here.

Ray tries to gatekeep his emotions and fake indifference but fails miserably. I think this was the moment he decided to truly give up the whole "I escape with them" part of the plan.

For our luck Emma and Norman didn't let Ray's suicide plan succeed.

[Side note: I totally forgot Ray cried during this hug. Poor boy. I wish I could tell him that everything will turn out just fine]

Okay that's all for now, mostly because I reached the picture and video limit. I hope it was interesting, even for something this long😅😅. See you soon everyone 🥰.

[esthelle-wanders]

Thank you, these are excellent!

Demizu’s artwork does seem to depict a larger library than the anime— which might just be her style, but also seems in keeping with the GF floor plan. From that, we know that the library extends all the way up to the ROOF, like, the literal rafters, they physically couldn’t fit any more. It’s not shown in the floor plan I think, but the panel with the trio entering the library seems to suggest natural lighting coming from the ceiling? Which I love and hope is accurate.

The anime library looks like it’s technically the same size, but the flat CGI textures and dark colors make it feel a lot less expansive, fantastical, and even practical (Gilda shouldn’t be the only one with glasses if they’re all trying to read in that rather ominous lighting).

Also, these references threw another wrench in my foolhardy attempt to rationalize a steampunky manga library. Given my family’s approximately 2,000 book count, and considering that we only have the equivalent to maybe one wall of those floor-to-wall bookshelves (if even), 6,000 seems like the visible number, although 3,000 still makes a lot more sense…

TPN Fandom! Do we know how big Grace Field’s Library is?

[goldiipond]

YOUR ART IS SOOO SWEET AND YUMMY ive been sucked in by your raydon propaganda i need to hear more

OOOOOHG THANK YOU HELL YEAH !!!! JUMPING AROUND SO MUCH

and i am soooooo normal about raydon you have no idea<3 i've been meaning to make a more in-depth analysis on their dynamic and why i like them as a ship for someone else who asked but i haven't had the chance to organize all my thoughts yet </3

tbh the biggest thing is i just really like their development through the series because like. don is shown to really admire ray and obviously pre-escape ray is experiencing the horrors and is actively pushing everyone besides emma and norman away and i really like seeing them grow closer after ray is finally allowed to begin healing it's very sweet to me <3

their dynamic is just really good in general and i think it is very underappreciated. and in the context of romance specifically i like the idea of them finally being allowed to get to know each other and seeing don's admiration turn into genuine love while ray tries to process his feelings (and probably has a few crises over it<3) and i think don being such an openly affectionate and caring person would definitely help ray as he learns to handle recieving affection and giving it as well. also it's really sweet seeing how emotional ray makes don at several points in canon and i like thinking about him just being so overjoyed whenever ray shows him any sort of affection (and ray noticing this and making a mental note to do it more often <3)

tldr theyre both very sensitive people in different ways and their development is very sweet and the would be so good to each other and they are cute. also they are funny as fuck

[lonely-cereal]

I stayed up all night thinking about how depressing Rays life is.

Since he was just a toddler he had been gearing up for death his whole life, he never really found joy in much things because he knew he'd lose them. when he did find a good interest he never gave up on it.

When he read, he only did it to improve his value so he could save Emma and Norman, the two people he'd always loved with a true passion.

He did everything I could to prepare for the escape.

Became Isabella's spy

Gathered things for 6 years to disable the tracking device.

He also planned to burn himself alive.

Ray believed that he wasn't worthy of love because he stood by all those years watching everyone he loved die and couldn't do anything about it.

And also because his biological mom was the one killing all of them.

He did everything he could to make the escape perfect for Emma and Norman.

After the escape plans seem to be going smoothly, Ray's own mom snaps emmas leg and reveals that Norman will be killed in a day.

Ray watches as the plan he's worked on for 6 YEARS fall to ashes (no pun intended) and has to watch as norman refuses to escape alone, and is shipped out.

(When ray reunites with him years later, Norman has been traumatized by the demons so badly that he turns genocidal)

Then on his 12th birthday ray tries to light himself aflame to distract isabella and let everyone escape. When Emma saves him he's shook. Then she slaps some sense into him and tells him that his family won't let him die, and that they're all going to escape together.

After the escape ray admits that he "lost." to Norman and will continue to life for his family, and protect them no matter what.

HE'S SUCH A TRAGIC CHARACTER I WANT TO HUG HIM SO BAD UGHHHHHDJDJJJJGJDJF

PROTECT THIS BOY AT ALL COSTS

[norman-ratri-truther]

listen idk if theres any people other than me who are insane abt these two pieces of media but. tw:coe and tpn are like two of my fave pieces of media and, kinda? similar if you think about the very basics of the story

spoilers for both obviously, also im like super tired writing this so this may be badly written and pulling at straws lmao i may edit/make another post in the morning

Like. human beings and non human creatures whos appearance can be described as monstrous and also have human level intelligence make a deal to let the aliens/demons have a certain amount of children (to get high off in tw and in tpn to eat, both arguably recreational meanings, if you consider the end of tpn) in order to maintain peace with each species?? main focus is mostly on a trio of 1 girl and 2 guys (with many others of course) with one of those guys dying near the end? (well "dying" in tpns case), in torchwood the british government decides to sacrifice the academically lower achieving children to the 456, in tpn they let the children with the lowest test scores get harvested first and only the intelligent children who could live to twelve (albeit mostly the girls) get a chance at having their death prolonged by training to become a mother? the characters are like always fightinf with guns which is funny in the context of each series (people with guns , but theyre like 11 a lot of the time and people with guns , but its set in wales of all places )

i will be real i havent rewatched torchwood in a little bit i could probably make more parallels but i cant remember any else atm (i wanna rewatch it but it seems that bbc iplayer doesn't work overseas so i have to wait till i get back rahhh)

[questiontocertaintyofreality]

Bungou Stray Dogs just feel extremely connected with The Neverending Story. In Neverending Story, stories create stories and actually nothing have a end. Connected with it nothing have a start if they don't have story. Stories cause stories so its imposible to finish a story if you live in Fantasia. (The universe in Neverending Story)

There was endless universes endless possibilities endless characters endless situations. The book. Fantasia have a book which everything happen in Fantasia writing in it. Fantasia's book can't search a living creature just can found it . Book written by Old Soul Of the Wandering Mountain. (I can't directly translate it to English because i read it turkish)

Michael Ende (writer of Neverending Story and fascinating fantastic books , his books live forever in my brain) would be a great bsd oc. Michael Ende as a bsd character, ımagine...

People who live in world we know- and world we think we live- can come in to Fantasia. For example Shekespeare describe as a Fantasia traveler. I wonder Howard Philips Lovecraft ever go there ?

So in Fantasia humans who have a brain to understand fantasia's world can travel Fantasia every bsd author and port have a brain to this. Bungou stray Dogs is a theory born in Fantasia's endless meadows, forests, houses. Neverlands

Nikolai Gogol's stories, evenings from a farm near Dikanka, from Ukrania mountains, Fantasia have a visual look to people who look at it.... Ohh

[emmaspolaroid]

Rachel hyping up my Emma and Isabella Dynamic essay to others?? no pressure at all haha ha (I now have three pages of word vomit-y notes .. this is going to be so incredibly long)

[girl4music]

Yep. ‘Forever’ feels like a character-centric episode that never really centers around the character themselves in much the way ‘The Body’ does with Joyce. Except it doesn’t really work at all because it’s evidently not the point. If it was, we wouldn’t be following Dawn’s story with accepting death in it.

There is of course the argument that it really centers around the theme of “grief”. But when a specific character is tied to a theme predominantly, then the theme should be explored through them, not at the expense of them. And as you correctly pointed out - there is no point in the episode where Dawn gets her subjective “look-through-my-eyes” moment that Willow gets in her character-centric ‘Something Blue’, and that’s given to pretty much every other character, including Willow, in ‘Forever’. We cannot feel sympathy for Dawn’s grief. We can only feel annoyed at her defensiveness. And that’s because the way the episode is written spends so much time affording that sympathetic character moment to everybody else but the centric character. And to be honest, the writing almost always does this with Dawn. It’s like their need to remind us that she is too young to understand her actions and choices overrides the requirement for the audience to better understand her. Thus, we get a character that largely remains a plot device than an actual living breathing human. Which feels weirdly and oddly ironic considering she began as a ball of green energy - something to use rather than relate to and resonate with. Which much of the season tries it's best to tell us is not true and does successfully. It’s the same sort of thing that’s the problem for me with Tara’s character. And perhaps that’s why they’re both the target in Season 5.

'Forever' honestly feels like a contradiction of this more than support and evidence for it. It's a shame.

Well reasoned, Ian.