#if your response to this is that you dont want to do that and instead you want to continue to needlessly be a bitch to random other people

[mythalism]

Despite being a diehard Solavellan, that ending bothered me and felt a bit empty. And I think it's because they don't allow Lavellan to do anything but give Solas what he wants. Like, she's basically love interest Barbie.

I get that Solas and Mythal's relationship has gone on for Millennia, that they are deeply intetwined, that she shaped his identity,etc. I get that Solas and Lavellan were together for only a year, which relatively is a blink of an eye in Solas's lifespan. I get why Solas needed Mythal to tell him it was okay to stop his mission.

That's fine, but I feel like Lavellan in this scenario deserves more than to just walk into fade prison with a kiss. I get that they had limits with time, but the writing makes her seem like she has no feelings of her own beyond "I love you sooo much Solas!" And it does such a disservice to some of the most interesting parts of their relationship. Like she has no identity outside of him. In reality, he just rejected her all over again to her face, with the added baggage of still intending to destroy her world and even kill her. He killed her dear friend and gaslit everyone about it, manipulated them into putting him in a position where he could end the world again. This is all after twelve year span of her cleaning up his messes, having her life turned upside down, possibly losing her entire family, losing her arm, having her heart broken, etc. At no point in the game do they actually allow Lavellan to express any anger, frustration, or feelings at all over what the antics of both Solas and Mythal have cost her. It's a constant reframe of "I love him, I'll always love him, I can never give up on him!" etc.

I don't need her to hate him, or not forgive him, but it feels completely unearned when you have her all smiles and kisses, forgiving him for the 90th time minutes after he threw said forgiveness in her face and was ready to kill everyone. She at least deserves to assert her choice to follow him instead of just going, "It'll be fine if we're together!" The writers couldn't at least give her piece of dialogue that goes beyond "Our looooove!"

From her perspective, her forgiving him and begging him after everything wasn't enough, that he was willing to destroy everything regardless until he got the a-okay from the person who is literally the source of all his deepest regrets. A woman who turned him into a tool with which to cause all manner of destruction. While she, the woman who always loved and accepted him for who he is, forgiving him after all she personally suffered at his hands, wasn't enough. And she can't have a reaction or indication that she feels anything about this other than, "I LOVE YOU SO MUCH SOLAS!"

I feel like if you go into Veilguard blind, not having played Inquisition, this relationship comes off as co-dependent and sad. And it certainly doesn't feel like any sort of resolution or breaking of a cycle. It feels like it's just a renewal of the same toxic dynamic, this time with Solas in Mythal's place and Lavellan's in Solas's.

i have been sitting on this message for a few days because i wanna do it justice with my response and after pondering this in the shower just now i think i am ready. beloved anon, thank you for sharing your thoughts in my inbox because i love yapping with you. however i am going to assume that because you came to my inbox with this you want my unfiltered opinion, and i very much disagree with this interpretation. i dont think its wrong to interpret the ending as involving a loss of agency for lavellan, or to feel like her story gets absorbed and eclipsed by solas's. i think thats true, and i understand why that could feel disappointing, but i do think it is wrong to frame it as co-dependent, sad, a renewal of a toxic dynamic, or love-interest barbie. not because those are necessarily false, but because that is quite literally what we signed up for with this romance, and i think that interpretation prescribes a very modern lens, rooted in real-life cultural values and expectations, to a story that is intended to be mythological, fantastical, and primarily serve a narrative purpose rather than an escapist, self-indulgent fantasy one for the player.

i would say that majority of the romances in bioware games are intended to provide a level of self-insertion, escapism, and personal fantasy fufillment in the player. that is also very much the trend of romance as a genre more broadly in the 20th century, but it becomes especially poignant in video games where you become the protagonist via your participation in playing through the story, and controlling their actions and choices. there is absolutely nothing wrong with these, and i love them. as an example, my fenhawke is very much like that to me. i self-insert so fucking hard on my hawke, and fenhawke is extremely self-indulgent to me. another great example that might be more obscure is the wayhaven chronicles (if you haven't played them, you should!! they're interactive fiction). many love stories lean very heavily into this sort of player fufillment, and they are wonderful.

solavellan, however, is an exception among these sorts of romances, and think the expectation that it would be otherwise is what has left many people upset about lavellan's supposed lack of agency in the ending. a good point of comparison here, i think, is hawke and anders. solas is tied to the narrative of dragon age and the destiny of thedas in a way that few dragon age characters are, save anders. solas is inextricable from the plot of not just veilguard and inquisition, but from the entire dragon age series. without solas, thedas would not exist and the stories that these games tell would not be able to begin. similarly, anders cannot be removed from the plot of dragon age 2. nearly any other companion can and the core story remains unchanged. but anders was always going to blow up the chantry. hawke nor the player can stop him, they can only join him in his tragedy, if they so choose. similarly, solas was always going to occupy his role in the narrative (i do believe this once involved bringing down the veil lol but instead its becoming the immortal guardian of the veil and atoning by healing the blight). lavellan nor the player was ever going to be able to change this. our only option was to join him on that path. romancing anders, and romancing solas, does not change the fact that they belong to the narrative first, and the player second. thus, when you romance them, you as the player and hawke or lavellan, as the protagonist, resign and submit themselves to the shared fate of that tragedy.

i call solavellan a tragedy not because it is sad, but because solas is bound by his narrative purpose the way a classical tragic hero is. he calls himself "fatalistic" verbatim, and the devs have referred to solavellan as a tragedy several times. when asked about solavellan happy ending on a dev q&a this summer, corrinne literally said "i thought you guys wanted a tragedy?" and though she was half-joking, she was right. solavellan was always going to be a tragedy; a story bound from the beginning by its inevitable ending. this is what it means to romance the most plot-relevant character of all time in dragon age, you have no choice but submit yourself, as the player and as lavellan, to his narrative fate.

to look at this story from a modern lens of gender power dynamics causing a lack of agency does it a disservice, in my opinion. yeah, if lavellan was my friend irl, i would tell her to dump her ugly ass bald boyfriend and move on. and to be fair, rook can literally do this LMFAO. like you can literally tell her to dump him, and they gave you this option for a reason; its a final opt-out from joining him on his narrative destiny as basically the tragic, meta-protagonist of the story of thedas. solavellan would indeed be super fucked up if it was real, even before veilguard. this is part of the reason i actually am not a fan of modern solavellan AU's, because they have to recreate and grapple with some insane themes that do not translate well when removed from the mythological god x mortal woman tragedy context of dragon age, and are plopped into a modern world. i still read modern AU's and enjoy them and have read plenty that are literal masterpieces, and i believe people should continue to write them if they so desire, but that does not change my feeling that something very essential to solavellan is lost in the process of that transformation. as i said before, solas is integral to thedas and dragon age. to remove him would mean thedas and the stories of dragon age ceases to exist. and to put him elsewhere and retain the core of who he is as a character and the solavellan romance by extension, is impossible.

i bring this up because i believe a lot of the issues you bring up in your message get at this sort of modern perspective being projected onto a story that was not intended to shoulder that burden. like. i would never support a woman joining a man who just murdered one of her friends in jail LMFAO. but their story is fundamentally about the power of love to redeem, and for the purpose of fulfilling that overarching theme, lavellan has to love and forgive him for everything. there is even datamined dialogue where morrigan says "and in the end, the dread wolf was saved by love". by entering into the romance with him, and reaffirming it not once or twice but three times throughout the games (1. lock in at crestwood, 2. choosing to save him at the end of trespasser, 3. coversation with rook) lavellan sacrificies her agency and autonomy within the story as a protagonist, and chooses to give herself over to the neccesary narrative conclusion that veilguard demands to finish solas's atonement story; her saving him (morally, rather than physically from his fate of being trapped) with her love. the only way to do this is to join him. her offer to walk the dinan'shiral with him in trespasser is honestly a perfect metaphor for this. it translates to the path of death but it represents his path through the plot of dragon age. by insisting on joining him, she submits herself to wherever the plot may take her in order to remain by his side. when she shows up in the end of veilguard, she re-affirms this by saying "i am here, walking the dinan'shiral with you!". she is less so submitting to him, but submitting herself to the path he is must follow to fufill the story of dragon age.

as for her not being enough to change his mind. yeah. she was never going to be enough to change his mind. thats kind of the point. this is made clear in trespasser, she was never going to magically become enough 8 years later. this is part of the tragedy. it has nothing to do with who he loves more or who is asking him to do what. solas does not have a choice, he is bound to walk this path to maintain who he is. varric says this in the regret prison, the inquisitor says it to rook, solas almost says this himself; he is too proud to change his mind (like, literally), he has come too far to turn back, and if he does then everything he did beforehand would be for nothing. he would have failed mythal, but more importantly he would have betrayed and ruined himself for nothing. his repeated rejection of lavellan in favor of choosing this path is a defense mechanism, to preserve both himself in his nature, and her "rare and marvelous spirit" that he adores so much. if he wavers and chooses her, he betrays himself. if he allows her to join him, he becomes like mythal. thus, the only person who can release him from this is cognitive prison is mythal. not because he loves her more, but because she set him on this path in the first place. he literally exists because of her. it is only once he is free of his duty for her that he is able to choose lavellan, and he does it immediately and with almost no hesitation by abandoning the veil. simplifying this to him "throwing her forgiveness in her face" is an unfair and disregards of the impact of the immensity of his guilt for the things he has done in mythal's service.

solas goes to great lengths to avoid recreating the dynamic that mythal deliberately inflicted upon him with lavellan. it is why he breaks up with her the first time, citing "distracting her from her duty", it is why he refuses her in trespasser, it is why he refuses her when she pleads with him at the end of veilguard. they do not recreate the solythal dynamic because the toxicity in solas and mythal's relationship was not about solas being willing to follow mythal anywhere. the toxicity comes from her manipulating him into doing horrible, violent things to accrue her power. in contrast, solas sacrifices his and lavellan's love for each other to keep her from joining him in committing horrible, violent deeds at his behest. he will literally do anything to keep her from being to him what he was to mythal, and that includes brutally breaking her heart and abandoning her and rejecting her repeatedly. it is the ultimate reversal of his dynamic with mythal, and the ultimate expression of his love. he is only able to accept lavellan's love when he is sure that he is no longer destined to accruing more blood on his hands. he allows her to follow him into the regret prison to help him heal the blight because he can only accept her love when he is sure it will not corrupt her against her purpose, the exact opposite of the way mythal's love corrupted him.

could all of this been fleshed out better within the game? absolutely. the entire game is rushed and messy, and although solavellan is the best of it, it suffers from much of the same. the inquisitor should've been in the game more. yes. it would have been wonderful to hear more about her gradual decision to join him in the fade. it also would have been helpful if the game was more explicit about the fact that the south is absolutely decimated by the blight, or mentioned lavellan being tired of ravages of the title of inquisitor and herald. all of these things are implied and should have been fleshed out more, i agree. personally, my headcanon for my own inky is that their relationship actually requires a lot of healing in the prison. it would be a long time before they were intimate with each other, and a long time before they reached a dynamic that is comparable to what they had in inquisition (but forever changed). just because lavellan forgives him does not mean she has to put aside everything he has done to her and never mention it again. they can fight, she can cry and scream and rage and confront him for what he put her through, mine certainly does. but the story we got makes sense for the game we got, and is consistent tonally and thematically with solavellan from the beginning. while further elaboration in-game might have helped the initial sting of the ending (i was also confused at first, it felt so sad), i dont think extra scenes of her getting to be angry at him would change anything fundamentally. solavellan is still a romantic tragedy inspired by the mythological stories of loki and sigyn, orpheus and eurydice, even hades and persephone, and many more, and is designed to convey a theme of the redemptive power of unconditional love and forgiveness within a fantasy setting. it achieves this at the expense of player headcanon, which is a bold move but one i respect. i empathize with people who found themselves disappointed by the direction it took because i know how much we all love and connect with these characters, but i do not think that makes the direction wrong. in conclusion, i leave you with some quotes and posts from my solavellan pinterest board that fit the theme of this essay, xoxo <3

[ecoterrorist-katara]

you act like your fandom isn't responsible for shitty racist behavior towards irls liiiike dont be a hypocrite pointing fingers at everyone except your own ilk lmfao

I was initially going to write a snarky response, but upon reflection you sound pretty young and I don't want to get into a pissing contest with someone who is likely a minor. Instead, I'm going to share my philosophy on how I engage with fandom and explain why it doesn't make sense for you to come to my ask box and demand that I answer for people who I don't even know.

My approach to fandom is entirely hedonistic. 1) Fandom is not, and never will be, my personal milieu for activism, and 2) I'm not responsible for the behaviour of people who happen to share my preference in a ship; I can only control what I do.

On 1), I come to fandom for escapism and indulgence, and these two qualities of fandom are completely incompatible with my approach to activism. Activism must be rooted in the real world and often demands doing things you don't want to do. That's like...the polar opposite of what I want to do on Tumblr.com.

Sometimes I incorporate analysis of oppression and justice in my fandom discussions because I find them interesting, but that's still about me and my enjoyment, not about oppression and injustice in general. A lot of my life has been dedicated to structural injustices, whether as topics of study or as systemic forces to organize against (more accurately, I spent most of my adult years striving to combine the academic and the practical facets), so obviously they crop up in my discussions, but my engagement in fandom has never been about activism and I've been quite clear about that. For example, I may talk about decolonization in the context of ATLA, but I harbour no delusions that my salty complaints about Bryke are, in any way, relevant to furthering the decolonial project.

On 2), notice that in my response to your last ask, I never claimed the entire Zutara fandom only consists of people who never did anything wrong. I only claimed that I, personally, strive to behave like a reasonably decent person in my fandom interactions. Fandoms consist of literally thousands of people, if not tens of thousands, so of course people in my (and yours, and everyone's) fandom are capable of shitty behaviour -- but like I said before, I'm not the fandom police. It's not a role I'm interested in taking on, nor one I'm arrogant enough to think I should. I don't try to be a role model at the club or at the grocery store; in a similar vein, I'm not facilitating or curating or shepherding the Zutara fandom. I just hang out here, same as everyone else, and I'm not going to insult my followers & my peers' intelligence by saying "PSA: did you know it's not okay to say shitty and racist things to people?"

My responsibilities in fandom extend to following basic fandom etiquette and interacting with posts and people that don't contradict my values. I sometimes repost salty things about specific ships, or occasionally I'll interact with Zutara antis who come to me, because salt can be fun in moderate doses plus I have post-COVID POTS so I need a lot of salt anyway. Every time I have interacted with a hostile Ka/taang shipper, it has been because they came to my post, my blog, or my tags to stir up shit. Even so, I'd never go to a Ka/taang blogger and expect them to do something. I have, btw, received messages asking me to highlight/expose certain Ka/taang shippers for their politics or things they've said, and I don't publish those either, so there's not a whole lot of fingerpointing going on here in general.

I'm going to stop responding to your asks, but I hope you can reflect on what exactly you are trying to get out of fandom, and what kind of behaviour you think is productive and generative for you. I'm not saying everyone should follow my personal fandom engagement philosophy, but I am saying you can't impose your philosophy onto me.

[abirddogmoment]

today's hot take for dog people: management is not the same thing as training.

[nomairuins]

i like overthink everything now it makes me feel so dumb. i used 2 be able to just talk 2 ppl but nowadays every single thing im like Is that actually going to make them hate me. Yes probably. and then i just dont respond which makes ppl hate me. this is how it is

[pinkseas]

hearing "how are you feeling? are you getting enough sleep? are you taking anything for it? are you drinking water?" from the besties: 🥺🥺🥺🥺😭😭😭😭🥰🩷❣️��💗💝💘💖💕💞🙏💝💖💘💕💞💗💓❣️🩷🥰💘🥰🥰🩷💞🥰💞🩷💞🩷💕❣️💘❣️💘❣️💕🥰💗💓💖💗💗💝💗🙏💞🥰💕🥰💘🩷❣️💘🩷💗🩷💗🩷💕💓💞🥰🥰🥰🥰🥺🥺🥺

hearing "how are you feeling? are you getting enough sleep? are you taking anything for it? are you drinking water?" from your parents: 😐😐😐😐💀🙄💥😬💥💀🙄💀😐😒😐💀🙄💥😬💀😬🙄💀😐😒🙄💀😬💥😬💥🙄😬😒💀💥💥💀💀💥😬💥💀😬💀😐😒😒😐😐💀💥💥💀💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

[sepiasys]

I love trauma! I love being traumatized!

[martyrbat]

when people who have ‘i block liberally’ in their bios learn they actually have to block people & cultivate their own dash:

[voidcat]

once again at my wits end bc of men

[deer-with-a-stick]

Nilah League of Legends is who every Fiendlock wishes they could be change my mind. She's just going tra-la-la-la with one of the Ten Kings sitting at her hip and sure she might have had her entire personality erased but she's gotten to beat the shit out of Volibear and maybe Mordekaiser because heehoo water demon whip go whee. If Fiddlesticks ever met her it'd just sigh because tf are you supposed to do against a lady who has your sibling as a whip and doesn't feel fear like dude

[caffeinatedopossum]

I don't understand why it's generally not socially acceptable to recognize your good qualities. Like I don't understand why it's bad to be a show-off or a know-it-all or to brag. Like I think most people know "those things = bad" but not why.

It also seems like people are always either waaaaay into one end of the scale where they are just so unbearably full of themselves and have preposterously high self esteem (and most people act like this is fine too? Like a lot of celebrities and white men specifically seem to be like this) and I don't understand why so many people respect them then. Or they're the complete opposite with self esteem way too low despite the fact that they have redeeming qualities.

I feel like maybe the reason it's considered bad to brag is because you might 'make' other people feel inadequate but see that seems like a stupid reason to me because the problem then is not that you stated an opinion of your own self worth but is actually that everyone else is conditioned to compare themselves to each other in a very unhealthy way. And I think instead of discouraging people from opening up about what they take pride in, what they like about themselves, what makes them feel happy or content or confident, maybe we could just be discouraging people from viewing those things as personal threats? Idk just trying to formulate some thoughts on this

[phagodyke]

ykw actually I am angry + disappointed w them. I've been pushing how I feel aside and trying to make it my own fault so it's all contained but I think theyve just been mean. and they really should know me better ik I try to pretend I don't expect more from them so I feel less hurt when they do things that upset me but we've been friends for years by this point. like come on.

[sophaeros]

i will not wait up for you anymore so you can ask me if something is wrong. he was sick in the head for writing this. which situationship hurt him.

[widevibratobitch]

.

[gibbearish]

hey @humans saw yall responded to a post making fun of you for updating the pixel alignment of a dash icon rather than fixing anything important saying "changes like this feel small but can make a big difference for some people" which is a bullshit cop out if ive ever heard one so im here to tell you directly in a way you cant wiggle out: you know what would actually make a big difference for a LOT of people? not being transphobic assholes

[thebadtimewolf]

hey

do yall know any genuine rose tyler stans that are actually upset about how s1 rose was treated as an equal AND a love interest but as soon as s2-s4 rose was treated more as a equal BECAUSE of her being pideonholed as only a 'i can do things too! see!' archetype of love interests that it took two other characters to be treated as an actual equal? like why did ten thru donna said that he needs an equal and that what the dr needs an equal??

rose was already an equal in season 1. its established bts that rose was an equal to ninth doctor? but now why didn't that sentiment continued on with ten? what happened?

like martha is treated like an actual equal because the dr in the past have always hated themselves, reflected back at them, but still shared the joy and comradarie during a joint adventure with said version of self. like even the time lord victorious two parter book - 8 was flirting and 10 flirted back but at the end of the day - both of em can carry themselves without the arrival of the other, leaving the eyerolling and mild disgust or disinterest aspect to ninth dr when he shared a room with them. like the dr not wanting to "date" martha even though he literally in text trying real hard to pull the wool in both ur qnd his own eyes is essentially him trying not to fuck himself.

donna is - in an almost wish-fufilled in what the dr missed from the master - considered an equal preestablished since season 3 guest appeared and fully in season 4. shes seen as a pea in the pod like the dr master rani and romana - keeping up with that specific lot of em without going thru the 'but im better than you' alien egoist rhetoric that the time lords fall to in times of upper handedness. she can manipulate she talk fast she tech-savvy yet people-grounded BUT she makes sure the respect isnt temporary and doesnt lord it over people because everyone is great and without that person, the whole system can fall apart.

because so far, it doesnt feel that way. like are yall not mad that tenth doctor gave rose up?

after seasons of build up and getting shot and everything? the funky alien eldritch being in a mask of an earth lookin boy that had a chance to man up and show feelings when the opportunity is very in your face given to him to do so in a space where he could do so and — he just gave her up? all that moping and whining and when given what he wanted, he just went: no. here. i need an equal and i have donna so im giving you what i TEN think you want as an equal in me and thats him. BUT NINEROSE ARE EQUALS SHE NEVER SAID SHE WANTED HIM HUMAN BUT RATHER HIMSELF AS HE IS.

its like fridging rose but worse. in s2-4 you made her in memory of someone else that ALWAYS treated her as an equal instead of actually continuing on with that with the next face. death wouldve been more forgiving and thats not a great thing to come to a conclusion to. The one that really treated you as both a love interest AND equal is dead, and now you're married to the discarded imitation of the one that only typecasted you as a love interest.

tentoo should be mad abt this too but this aint about him, this is about yall and the rose tyler connundrum.

i wouldve settled for her having the hand - settling for the hand if that hand turned into ninth doctor (like full on christopher eccleston doing donna impression everything) instead of what we got - which was dust. it made more sense that way. because then the dialogue narrative - the doctor's excuse - wouldve been more well recieved. Does it need saying would have more weight if Eccleston played a NineToo whispered i love you because you know it was well meant. Genuine. Its coming from someone that always treated you as an equal and also getting that i love you and not just - oh the human i love. i miss them not because i treated them on equal terms, its strictly because i only love them - no equality at all

like yeah chris wasnt going to return but hes a movie actor - hes used to green screen. he couldve sent a video message in a leather jacket and let it be done. like we couldve had nine saying i love you to rose on doomsday like do you get what im trying to say like. like tooth and claw if it was nine and rose both wouldve been like 'oh look at that a werewolf transformation!' And not what. we got. LIKE DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN

[snowychicken]

8, 14, 16 (aro time)

Hi Soup!!!!! C: <2 Okay I'm laughing so hard about this bc I never actually posted this ask game but I got an ask for it lmao. BUT I do really appreciate the ask and appreciate you thinking of me so I'm gonna answer them anyway, you just can't be disappointed with my answers lol

8. What are some of your favorite arospec characters? This can include characters from popular media or OCs.

Honestly, I don't know very many characters where their orientation comes up at all (unless they're straight of course), let alone arospec characters. BUT fortunately there is Lillly from Other Girls <2

14. What are some stereotypes about arospec individuals that annoy you the most?

The biggest one is that arospec people are always emotionless/uncaring/cruel/cold/etc. (Also hate hate hate that the main argument I see people make against that stereotype is "aro people still feel love" bc some of us fucking don't. But idk if that's a common enough belief to be considered a stereotype itself)

16. Do you have any arospec OCs? If so, tell us about them?

I do not unfortunately :(. I don't think I have any OCs really. Sorry to disappoint

Thanks so much for the ask Soup!!! <2 <2 <2

Link to the game (linking Soup's post since I don't have my own lol)