#if I don't get a narrative without romance in it Right Now I'm going to start biting | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

username0204 · 1 month ago

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It's either Byler or just shitty writing - viewing the show as GA

At first I want to point something that I think is not talked about enough... The fact that Maya makes fun of how absurd it would be to have a canonically queer character fall in love and then sacrifice themself so their crush can live happily ever after in a het relationship is soooo funny to me, I literally couldn't believe she got away with it xd bc that's EXACTLY what anti-bylers think Will's arc is set up to be...

I'll get back to that later but first I'd like to share my journey with Byler as I was watching the show without interacting with the fandom... I started out probably similar to most people believing that Will is most likely gay and assuming Mike is straight and the writers are just handling Mike's and El's relationship very poorly since the beginning of S3 and I simply couldn't root for them ever since.

It's not a deep dive analysis of the subtext/parallels/queercoding, there are already plenty of it and you probably already know as much or more about it than I do rn. It's simply my experience as a member of GA (at first ofc, I'm here now after all, right? xd) and my thoughts on El<-Mike->Will dynamic as I was watching casually and how the only thing keeping me from being a Byler-truther was my general lack of trust in media when it comes to queer stories.

So if you're feeling some Byler-doubt and think that maybe you're overthinking Max's rainbow sleeves and it all might mean nothing then give it a read :) Maybe I can convince you that it's actually much simpler.

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Ok, here we go, that was my thoughts on the spot while watching:

S1 & S2

Nothing much to say here tbh... I just thought that both Mike/El and Mike/Will relationships are cute. I liked Mike, he seemed like a true "heart" when it comes to his friends. I liked how caring and protective he is of Will and kind to El (despite the few lash-outs but they are totally understandable in his situation). The cliff-jumping scene still haunts me though... what was that about and why they just never discuss it after?? It's true that when it comes to Will (both S1 and S2 plots were about Will tbh), Mike is always the first one to care or the one that the narrative focuses on, but back then I just assumed it's because he's the protagonist not because it's about Will specifically.

His admiration for El is totally understandable - she comes out of nowhere and helps with rescuing Will and "dies" protecting them - how can you not fall for that? Their "romance" seemed a little forced tbh, but they're cute so it's fine... it's TV, they need to sail the "ship" after all I guess. I just hoped it wouldn't outshine the friendships later on and... well jokes on me

Although Mike's and El's relationship in the beginning of S3 is pretty realistic (given their age etc) and this season heavily leaned on the comedy part (not the best decision for some of the plots but that's just my opinion), the break-up part was really off... It's not how you handle "the break" in an endgame couple, not even in sitcoms!! The most famous being Rachel and Ross (not that they should have been the endgame but that's not the point) - their break-up is sad and emotional and they even had to introduce a comedic subplot of the rest of the gang bc without that it wouldn't be a sitcom episode. It was just really off how they portrayed Mike's and El's break-up as comedic... And I'm happy they broke up and the show itself seems to be happy about it too, I guess? Weird choice for an endgame couple... At the beginning of S3 I thought to myself "God, I really wouldn't like to be in a relationship with someone like Mike if that's how he is to his girlfriend" and that thought stayed with me till the very end of S4.

In contrast I really liked how serious they were about Will's and Mike's fight. The "it's not my fault you don't like girls" was a shocker - if he knows about Will being gay that's just homophobic (from S1 we know he stands up to homophobes so WTF writers?) and if he doesn't know... well that's just sus to me... overcompensating/projecting much? Maybe that scene was suppose to be more about hinting at Will's sexuality but it's still a weird choice for Mike's character... Both that scene and the Castle Byers scene broke me... But overall at that point I was just glad that they decided to put so much value on that in contrast to (what seemed to me as) "girl/boy crazy" phase of teenagehood. Let's be real, we all lost friends to that disease xd

But then they ended the season with Mike and El supposedly getting back together??? At that point I was sooo over it already and relieved that Mike at least didn't seem too into that idea, despite the fact that Byler as a possible canon romantic ship haven't crossed my mind yet.

And then comes S4 and oh boy... At that point I still believed that the writers want Mike and El to be the endgame and are just horribly shitty with writing it. They are fake with each other, lie to each other, have nothing in common (except for fighting the evil from another dimension) and have the most ridiculous "obstacle" possible of Mike not being able to say "I love you" and gaslighting El about it. It just seemed to me like they couldn't come up with an arc for Mike and settled for the worst option possible. I remember thinking - if that's your endgame couple, you really fucked it up... how am I suppose to root for them if the obstacle is not some miscommunication (Mike and Will), trauma (Lucas and Max) or external factors (Nancy and Jonathan) but the very core of a relationship - to love and to feel loved? If they at least introduced some type of reason as to why Mike is not able to say that, I would be happy not to immediately assume that he just doesn't love her that way. But they didn't. Same thing happened between Nancy and Steve but we all know that already.

Mike's interactions with Will were super weird as well all season and didn't make much sense to me at that point. He's distant and I guess it can be explained by the fact that they didn't stay in touch... but even with that the whole airport hug and "we're friends!" seemed very harsh - similar to the "it's not my fault you don't like girls" from S3. Again I assumed that maybe Mike knows about Will being gay and (as most "I'm not homophobic but..." kind of people) just tries to make the "no homo" between them very clear. But once El is out of the picture Mike starts to act very different with Will (all of their heart-to-hearts, being open and vulnerable, the stares etc) and that theory just doesn't make sense anymore... if he was so "no homo" before, what changed?

And then the real kicker... unlike most here (I'd assume) I wasn't happy with how they handled Will's sexuality making itself undeniably canon with the van scene. It broke me and I hated that. Till that point I could just be misinterpreting his crush on Mike but the van scene??? They could have confirmed his sexuality in many different ways... TV has done it many times in many ways! And it's not just in media targeted towards queer audience... Shameless confirms Ian being gay in the very first episode with his brother finding gay magazine clippings! Or they could have introduce a new love interest as they did with Robin but nooooo - Will is confirmed gay by being in love with his best friend while trying to repair said best friend's relationship with his girlfriend. At that point I was really like "damn, those writers must really hate Will". I don't know about the GA but I really don't find the "gay-boy-heartbreak-suffering" that entertaining... If they really need to tick off the "gay-boy-character" box it's the worst way to do that... it's not giving depth - it's just torture at his point, he's been though enough to throw an "unrequited queer love for a bestie of 10yrs" on him as well.

And Mike's "confession" to El? Tbh I was over them long before that... I didn't even care. It was cheesy and off and forced and didn't make any sense whatsoever, I actually cringed the whole time - but I wasn't surprised at all, I just assumed once again that they just can't write them properly... whatever. But then the cabin scene... similar to S3 ending I was just glad that El was distant bc she had every right to be, I'm glad that me and El seem to finally be on the same page here. Funny that the love confession that apparently was the direct solution to "you don't say you love me" conflict didn't fix things and seemed to only make it worse. But on the other hand if I had to go though the same arc all over again in the next season I'll just loose it xd

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So that was my initial thoughts while watching the show...

I didn't read too much into it. All I took from it was "the endgame couple is horribly written", "Mike is weird to both Will and El", "apparently the writers decided that Will hasn't suffered enough already". With how queer or queercoded characters are treated in media that are not specifically targeted towards queer audience I really don't have much hope usually... I logically knew that Byler just would make more sense narratively and for the characters but I thought it's too good to be true.

But then I stumbled upon some edits and people pointing out all of Mike's queer coding throughout the series... Most of the "plot/narrative evidence" I was able to pick on myself but just blamed the writers. It's the soundtrack and the set/costume design that really sold it for me. There is no way that the "you're the heart", "in the closet", "one-way" sign and that ridiculous triangle pocket and many more are just a coincidence when you put it next to the writing. There is no way that the show can be so detail-oriented and fuck-up the writing so bad at the same time.

So what if all the stuff I interpreted as simply "bad writing" and my thoughts and feelings towards El<-Mike->Will are actually exactly what the writers intended? Funny thing that in S4 we see Mike from Will's perspective so it wouldn't be so crazy that the GA interprets Mike the same way Will does... the only exception being that the audience knows exactly what the fight between El and Mike was about.

If the rest of the crew is so talented maybe the writers are as well? Damn we already saw that with Robin and Steve in S3 - how they masterfully subverted every expectation and made it so much better than anyone imagined! They not only subverted expectations, they subverted queerbaiting and turned it into "straightbaiting". That's a true skill right there. And all the other relationships (not just romantic) are well written as well... only the El<-Mike->Will dynamic is so weirdly written... or is it on purpose? There is no way that a skilled team of writers could fuck up the "main couple" so bad and make you feel bad for the third-wheel for being so hopelessly and selflessly in love on accident.

It's true that some authors can accidentally make things seem not exactly how they intended... or simply just queerbait the shit out of it. But that's not the case here - it's not just the writers team, it's every other team that works for the show as well... so they just collectively misinterpreted the plot? It happened before with HP3: PoA where the director and actors assumed two besties to be gay for each other upon reading the source material - but that was a book adaptation and the story was not written by the people creating the adaptation (unlike the Duffer Brothers). It doesn't seem like queerbaiting as well... there is too much attention to detail here in subtext + they already subverted this with Steve and Robin, while usually the classic "queerbait" relies on 2 characters just having good chemistry and some sus dialogue or scenes that are usually also acknowledged by other characters (Sherlock I'm looking at you) but are usually portrayed as "straight" outside of their dynamic - and definitely it's not common for one of the party to be canonically in love with the other! (Supernatural was the worst about it and everyone knows it)

Also the social-media/PR part... that's where we come full circle to the interview from the beginning of this waaaay too long post xd There are a lot of sus posts from the official accounts that lean into Byler as well as some quotes from interviews... I won't go into that bc this is too long already. The point being, they know what they're doing... it's subtle enough not to be a spoiler but it's there, so it's not an accident. Also it's hard to believe that out of all people we will be queerbaited by an actual queer person (Noah being THE Byler shipper xd).

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Overall there are "theoretically" 4 ways Will's romantic arc can end in S5:

Will comes-out and learns that he is accepted and loved either way Well duh obviously but I don't think that will be all there is to it, he already knows that his family is accepting and Finn said in one of the interviews that Mike will probably accept Will... if that's the whole arc then it's already spoiled and they wouldn't let it slide in an interview, so there has to be more to it...

Will dies (aka bury your gays) Well... no xd Multiple people of the cast said that Will's ending will be happy + that would just mean that Maya's crazy idea applies to Will (which again, like with Finn, they wouldn't let it slide if that was the plot even if it applies to a different character - the only 2 canonically queer, mind you - so it's not hard to connect the dots) and it just shows how ridiculous and out of "the show's spirit" it would be. The fact that the cast makes fun of that arc should be proof enough that it just won't happen.

Will has a new love interest Unlikely... they said that there won't be any new crucial characters introduced in S5 (ofc they could be lying) but that just makes the whole "Will is in love with Mike" absolutely pointless plot-vise. Seriously what was the point then? And there's simply not enough time for the "painting shenanigans" resolution, rejection, getting over Mike, meeting someone else and falling for them. Especially since Mike and Will will be most likely teamed up in S5

Will's feelings are reciprocated by Mike This narratively makes most sense. Will is already canonically in love, Mike and El are not ok and she seems to be sooo done with his bullshit (me too sis), Will's confession makes Mike feel loved and he looks at Will the way I'm not sure I've looked at anyone ever tbh. Mike reciprocating the feelings would also explain all of his weird behavior in the previous seasons. El is finally out of a relationship that makes her feel like a "monster/garbage/someone's pet" and free to define herself for herself and not some "random nerd" - just like Max taught her (the first one to see El as her own person and encouraged her to find and be herself mind you... god I love this duo <3)

So out of all of these 4 ways only the last one actually addresses the "writing issues" and makes sense plot-vise and arc-vise. Any other solution will just prove that the writing is actually shit when it comes to this trio, especially if they keep El and Mike together as a couple.

TLDR: Byler is endgame... ...or the whole ST crew really fucked up - writers hate Will and all of the sudden can't write characters when it comes to Mike and also can't write romance when it comes to Mike and El but by some magical coincidence the set/costume designers, editors, PR, music composers and cast didn't get the memo about the plot from the writers while the directors are nowhere to be found to make it all make sense xd

#byler #byler endgame #crazy together #byler is canon #byler proof #byler doubt

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genericpuff · 10 months ago

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Wait, if Hera hated nymphs, does that mean she had beef with Poseidon's wife???

Who knows, but it does shed a whole new light on this scene from Episode 1:

Like, in the context of the scene, it's clear the point of this interaction is to highlight how "lonely" Hades is that he's the only one at the party without a date. Though I do think it's funny that Hades is frustrated / shocked at the revelation that Poseidon brought his wife to a party that she would presumably be invited to attend, like... of course Poseidon is here with his wife, that makes Amphitrite royalty by extension and so at the very least she'd likely be obligated to attend even if she, for some reason, didn't want to go.

So Hades being like "GOD you mean I'm the ONLY UNMARRIED GUY without a DATE???" like yeah man that's what it means to not be married LOL

But in hindsight, knowing what we know now about Hera being cruel to satyrs and nymphs who are canonically lower class (making it a double whammy of racism AND classism) that interaction of Hades asking Hera if Poseidon brought Amphitrite right after Hera called Minthe "nymph trash" almost feels like Hades calling her out, to which she responds sheepishly, "... Yes."

Again, I know that's not the intention of this scene, but it does come with deeper implications now that the series is over and we know that Hera has a history of racism and classism which largely goes unaddressed.

And those implications kind of read like this:

Hera: "I, for one, am grateful! I don't have to spend the evening with that nymph trash :)"

Hades: "Did Poseidon bring his (oceanid) wife?"

Hera: "(・_・;)... yes, okay, Poseidon brought his wife, Amphritite, but she's not nymph trash or anything, she's one of the good ones!"

Again though, just food for thought that's kinda messed up and kinda funny to think about on re-reads. There's so much classism and racism baked into LO even from the very beginning and it's wild that it wound up going unnoticed for years. Even I didn't really notice it as much as I ought to have when I first started reading. To anyone who's new to the series, LO does a good job at bombarding you with colors, characters, Greek myth references, and feel good fluff moments between H x P to distract you from the often biased and outdated viewpoints in its narrative.

TBH, none of that is to say that Rachel herself is some massive racist for writing a story like this, but I do think she didn't really spend enough time analyzing the works that clearly inspired her and/or challenging her own inspirations to ensure she wasn't continuing the cycle of casual racism. It's really easy to be blissfully aware of your own biases if you never learn to address them, especially when it comes to writing fantasy stories which we tend to "disconnect" from real life, never once realizing that the messages and undertones we might accidentally be sending are often still realities for many people in real life today. Fiction isn't real life, sure, but it can still perpetuate some really dog shit thought patterns and subconscious beliefs if left unchecked, which LO is frankly full of especially upon re-reads with a more critical eye when you're not as likely to get distracted or swept away by the pretty colors and whirlwind romance.

#ask me anything #ama #anon ama #anon ask me anything #lore olympus critical #anti lore olympus #lo critical

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waitmyturtles · 2 months ago

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I'm cautiously optimistic. I am really enjoying The Ex-Morning so far.

I think Krist has improved A LOT as an actor. I think the chemistry and back-and-forth acting between Krist and Singto has improved with both of their ages and respective experience. They're playing off of each other excellently -- this was especially noticeable to me in 4/4 (I kinda love that we're back to the YT format for this show, ha!).

I think, with clearly heavy supervision from Aof Noppharnach, that we finally have a kind of GMMTV script that's become an outlier of this network: a script that's building romance in a sensible narrative form, leveraging nostalgia and flashbacks, in this instance, to set up romantic context, without hitting us viewers over the head immediately with meme-able random scenes that aren't contextual to a legible story. I'm following this story with interest: I wanna know wtf happened between Phi and Tawan, and the build-up is paced nicely so far.

(At the same time, I honestly don't know what to expect from this writing team after getting whiplashed at the very end from Last Twilight last year, so I'm just... holding back my excitement, even thought this is the OG Bad Buddy writing team.)

I am allowing myself to liberally read into the meta of the storyline so far, and not just for the story of a character played by Krist who becomes controversial for a scandal and needs to take time, through work, to redeem himself. I like that the show might be addressing why Singto came the hell back to GMMTV and to the KristSingto branded pair.

We know Tawan's lyin', but also, I'd like to imagine Singto answering that same question like, "THA MONEY, HELLO."

I just really like the storyline that two dudes who separated from working together are coming back to work together. It's so simple! But so meta for these two particular dudes. The KISS method, no pun intended.

If the writers can keep this going as sensibly AND creatively as they've done for these first two episodes, I'll be impressed. Hit us with an episode five surprise that works? Then I'll be seriously cheering from the sidelines. Right now, my arms are still crossed and my eyes are still squinting in doubt, but I'm honestly enjoying the show so far.

(AND PLEASE TELL ME YOU NOTICED TAWAN DRINKING ICED COFFEE AT THE END. NOSTALGIA!)

#the ex morning #the ex morning the series #kristsingto #krist perawat #singto prachaya #aof noppharnach #sotus the series

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into-fiction · 5 months ago

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re: Elphaba staying (or being forced to stay?) I could potentially see them keeping Elphaba in chains somewhere, maybe Morrible does something to contain her powers, idk? And Galinda being kept around as leverage (i.e., we'll hurt her, kill her if you don't comply). Afterall, the Wizard tried to present her as positive leverage in the movie ("and if it makes you happy, maybe even your friend here").

The question is, how much would Elphaba sacrifice for Galinda? She chooses Animals/political resistance over her, ultimately. Would she willingly hurt animals to keep her safe? I think most gelphie shippers would probably like to believe that she would do anything to keep Galinda safe, but I think there's a conflict there that a lot of gelphie fic doesn't address. Yes, we all talk about how their relationship is "doomed by the narrative", but really, they ultimately just choose themselves over each other. Not true love, some would say, or at least not a compelling romance.

That's to say, I think there aren't many "Elphie stays" stories simply BECAUSE they're doomed by the narrative. When the narrative changes to accommodate their relationship, everyone suffers! There's no triumph, no character arc for either of them, just some kind of dystopian timeline, right?

(Unless both Morrible and the Wizard somehow get killed, say, before the hot air balloon scene. Then Elphaba wouldn't have any need to leave, though there would be a serious power vacuum and it's not like two random University students could fill it, right?..... shhhh I'm thinking....)

see the part where i hit a wall in any 'elphie stays' scenario is we actually have no idea what the wizard wanted her for. he has his spies now, so what else does he need? i actually don't even know there would be any other spells he'd ask her to cast on Animals.

tbh, i don't think elphie would need much restraining. lets be real- without the grimmerie, she still is someone who has almost no control. if she can't float a coin on purpose, she's unlikely to be able to escape easily. esp if glinda is leverage and esp if her personal morals prevent her from wanting to hurt anyone.

but really, what would her job be?? no doubt the wizard wanted to harness her magic somehow, likely to continue to control and suppress the Animals, but a direct spell like the monkey wings? seems like a one time thing. in fact- how would they even put a positive spin on winged monkeys without a wicked witch to blame it on?!

i agree with glinda being used as leverage! i think that makes the most sense. and as for whether hurting glinda is a strong enough incentive to push elphie to do something she opposes.....hm. how far would she go? if one of the guards had put a gun to glinda's head and said "stand down or else" - would elphie have stayed? would she have fought it every second or would she have listened to glinda?

and glinda herself! would she have begged elphie to cooperate? would she have told her 'its alright don't worry about me'? if she had said the latter, would elphie have felt better about letting her get hurt?

or, in a world where elphie listens first and stays of her own free will, would they even need to threaten her explicitly? or would elphie have cooperated out of her own desire to see things through from another angle?

#so. many. questions.#its an intriguing topic & i do wish more people tackled it!#wicked #gelphie #thoughts #asks

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hannieween · 2 years ago

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obsession | backstage series | l.sm

The truth was, he liked whatever he had with you. Friends that fuck. But to everyone else you know, you're sort of a thing. And that is what Seokmin himself suggested, a fake relationship. A fake relationship between two friends that fuck, no romantic feelings in between. How could this possibly go wrong?

♡︎ pairing: lee seokmin x afab!reader ♡︎ genre: angsty romance, smut 18+ mdni you'll get blocked♡︎ aus: theatre performer seokmin, fake dating with benefits ♡︎ word count: 10.6k

↣ part 1, navi post

₊🎧: dope lovers – dpr ian | drown – baekhyun

₊ nsfw tags under the cut

♡︎ warnings: swearing, pet names: baby (hers), smut with plot, soft dom seokmin, big dick seokmin, masturbation (f, m), making out, multiple unprotected sex scenes, sex in a semi-public space, multiple orgasms, creampie, oral sex (m), a bit of praise kink (f), seokmin is down bad, reader sends him mixed signals | also, a weird time jump in narrative and minor mistakes this isn't proofread

part 2

Seokmin barely got through his day.

He wasn't the kind of person to dwell to much on conflict. If he couldn't avoid it, he'd fix it. If he couldn't fix it, he'd let it go.

But right now, the conflict in his mind was you.

Joshua sat on the couch letting out a sigh. The tv was on, it had been since Seokmin got home from script readings. He was tired and couldn't get his mind to switch off, so he thought watching tv might help.

It did not.

The noise from the tv had turned into a weird white noise in his head, Seokmin was good at pretending to pay attention to the screen.

"Since when do you watch Love Island?" Joshua asked, furrowing his brow as he munched on his cereal.

"Wh- what?" Seokmin blinked, and moved for the first time in what felt like hours, turning his head to see his roommate.

"And in Spanish dub? Since when you know Spanish?" he laughed.

He handed the remote to his roommate without saying a word.

"What's up with you, Dk?" he asked.

His character, Dk, became a sort of alter ego after he and his friends wrote a play as a joke. Only someone close to him would call him that as a nickname, and that included his roommate, Joshua.

"Dunno what you mean," Seokmin mumbled as he rubbed his face with both hands.

"Uh... you've been acting weird," he said as he rummaged through the collection of movies on Netflix.

"'M just tired, that's all," he said and that could be true.

For the past month he has been doing auditions and a few days ago he got the lead role in a musical and since then he hasn't stopped to rest peacefully.

That and the fact that he was going crazy with the thought of you. Whenever he felt like he could escape the memory of you, something on his mind brought it back again. Even when his phone buzzed, he thought that it might be you.

"Hey, if the quick nut you had last saturday has you like this... maybe you should talk about it, man. Don't know," he muttered, looking absentmindedly at his bowl of cereal.

"What?" Seokmin cringed at the language. It was unusual to hear Joshua's ever so polite mouth express his thoughts in a vulgar manner. But from time to time it happened.

"I'm jus'saying man. Doesn't hurt to talk about it."

"Don't call it that, a quick nut?" he exclaimed.

Joshua's mouth dropped in a mocking gesture of shock. "Scandalous," he smiled before laughing cheekily. "Well, you know what I mean."

"It's driving me insane," he finally confessed.

"Why?" Joshua's brow furrowed again as he took another spoonful of cereal. "You used protection?"

Seokmin groaned. "I really don't want to talk about this," he mumbled.

"So, no? You went in raw?"

"Shit, stop it." Seokmin laughed at his roommate's bluntness.

"What, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of post nut clarity, but yours has gone way too long," he tried to play cool but broke in laughter again.

Seokmin could count the times he has had talks revolving around sex with Joshua. They normally would just tell each other when they brought someone home for the night, so they would take their precautions. And they were pretty much content with their dynamic, since none of them actually abused it.

Joshua was a pretty chill dude. Except for his random bouts of madness, which Seokmin never knew when to expect them.

"I can't tell you, Hyung," Seokmin concluded, sounding a bit deflated.

Joshua's shoulders dropped slightly. "Why, do I know her?"

Seokmin considered replying to that question. "Uh, yeah I think so."

No, you haven't actually met. You knew that Seokmin lived with a roommate named Joshua. But Seokmin has talked about you with him casually. Besides, there were a lot of Instagram posts on his page that had pictures of you together. So Joshua must know about you.

The expression on Seokmin's face must've made Joshua realize something. "If you need help with anything, don't hesitate to tell me."

"I'm fine," he mumbled, and rubbed his face once again.

"Are you going to be a dad?" Joshua asked abruptly.

Seokmin laughed with his face buried in his hands. "God, no," he lifted his head to find his roommate laughing soundlessly.

If there was something that he could always be grateful for, was his friends. It didn't mattered what he was going through, he always had his friends to back him up.

It was pretty evident that Joshua saw that Seokmin was just a bit conflicted about something, so he decided to act dumb for a bit and make Seokmin smile.

Joshua knew that Seokmin spent the night at yours because it was unusual of Seokmin to not come home. And when Seokmin returned home at noon on sunday in the same clothes he'd seen him in the day before, looking tired but in cheerful mood, Joshua figured it was a girl.

Seokmin reflected on his reaction when he woke up alone on your couch, feeling like he was still dreaming. Disoriented, he looked for you and heard you were in the shower, and fought against the idea of following you in there.

But no, that is not how one night stands worked. Seokmin was supposed to get out of your apartment out of courtesy, right? At least that was what he knew from his own experience.

This, however, wasn't a one night stand like any other he's had. And that made him nervous. He didn't know exactly why. But he couldn't decide on how to act now. Should he wait for you? Should he buy you breakfast?

Sure. That is what he'd do anyway. Even if he hadn't fucked you into the couch the night prior. He would do those things. Friends don't shower together, so he waited for you. But was that what you wanted? He wondered.

He sat up on the couch and picked his shorts from the floor. He wore his underwear through the night, and he remembered you didn't wear anything but his hoodie to sleep.

"Hi there," you told him as you came out of your room, his hoodie folded in your hands.

"Hi," Seokmin replied, pressing his lips into a smile. He stood up to put his shorts on.

"D'you wanna go grab breakfast?" you asked, as you handed him his hoodie, which he put on before thanking you.

"Uh, I have to go. I have to get ready for headshots," he told you, and it wasn't an excuse.

He searched your face with his eyes, looking for some signs of stress or doubt. But you gave him a sweet smile and that might have shattered him a bit.

"Oh, okay."

Seokmin wanted you to tell him something, anything about what happened last night.

"See you later, then," he mumbled with a smile.

He just decided to pull you into a bear hug, and patted your head like he always did before pulling away and say goodbye. The scent of your fresh shampoo invaded him for a while on his way back home.

Later that sunday evening was when Seokmin started to slowly lose it.

It all started when Seokmin begun assessing the messages from Soonyoung and Seungkwan. Lying on his bed after a long shower, Seokmin decided to venture himself in the texts that his two closest friends had sent the night prior, when he first kissed you.

In short, Seungkwan was... alarmed. It wasn't weird for him to panic under the slightest bit of change in their dynamic as a friend group. Even when Soonyoung had a girlfriend who turned out to be a bit toxic Seungkwan panicked.

But even you panicked a little, seeing Soonyoung change under the toxic regime of his crazy ex. Anyone would've. However, Seungkwan had every right to panic, his two best friends started snogging out of the blue in front of everyone, that must've been a bit weird for him.

Seokmin sighed, looking at the messages. Decided not to reply yet.

Soonyoung's messages were brutal in contrast to Seungkwan's.

[10:45 PM] hoshi: YOU AND Y/N ???????? [10:45 PM] hoshi: I KNEW IT [10:45 PM] hoshi: KNEW YOU HAD A CRUSH ON HER [10:46 PM] hoshi: DK LET'S GO! [10:46 PM] hoshi: DUDE !!! [11:31 PM] hoshi: i'm so drunk rn [11:32 PM] hoshi: dude [11:32 PM] hoshi: i'm happy for you [11:33 PM] hoshi: you guys deserve this

Suffice to say, that is what tipped Seokmin to madness. It was simple. All he had to say was 'thanks man'. Or nothing at all. But what unnerved him was the fact that Soonyoung had mention he knew Seokmin had a crush on you.

Seokmin didn't have a crush on you. That's the first thing he told himself. But as he lied on his bed and went through his messages, in the back of his mind, all he could thing of was you. He was convinced that he could still smell you, he could still hear you in his ear.

If that isn't madness, then Seokmin didn't know what it was.

But that is just what happened on sunday. Fast forward to thursday, no calls, no texts from you so he didn't want to pry. You didn't text regularly anyway so Seokmin didn't find it entirely odd. But should he?

He found himself lost in the memory again when he heard Joshua settle his bowl of cereal on the coffee table and watched his roommate sit back on the sofa.

"Well, whenever you feel like it, we can grab a beer and talk about it," his roommate offered with a friendly smile.

Seokmin stook from the sofa and before heading to his room he replied. "Yeah, I might take you up on that soon, Hyung."

He dragged himself into a cold shower. The second shower of the day. It helped him clear his mind off things, of the things he needed to learn for his new role, the soreness of his muscles after gym, it cleared his mind off the thought of you.

But he couldn't help it. He lived in the memory of you, crying out his name, moaning and whimpering under him. The way your body trembled when he went down on you while you called out his name. He could feel himself grow hard. At the thought of you, of how good you felt.

And suddenly his hand was grabbing his length, a sigh escaping his lips as he started pumping himself to ease his growing ache for you. But the torture that ensued in his mind didn't stop there. He could feel his sanity slip from his mind as he imagined it was your hand, that it was you touching him.

His freehand found support on the shower wall, letting himself close his eyes to see you in his mind.

The feeling of you lingered on his memory as he relived how tight you felt when you rode his fingers, how you trembled when his hand circled your neck. Seokmin dropped his head forward, letting the stream shower his back, as he pumped himself with his eyes closed.

But in his inner eye, he was watching you look up at the turned-off screen, watching your two bodies melt together. The mere thought of you finding the reflection of him fucking you into the couch arousing almost sent him over the edge.

What did it for him was the memory of you cumming on his cock, you trembling and whimpering desperately, asking for him not to stop. The sight of the base of his cock dripping with your cream and his cum. Seokmin groaned and squeezed his eyes harder as he came on his hand, and the water from the shower washed his cum from his skin.

Panting, he stood under the stream of water realizing what he had just done.

"Fuck," he muttered and his hand snapped the tap shut.

For a minute he entertained the idea of grabbing his phone and just texting you to meet up. It didn't mattered how tempting the idea was, he had to decide whether his growing obsession of you was just that or was a real crush.

But how could he have a crush on you? You've been friends for years now. He would've noticed if something within him change, right?

He promised you he only wanted the attention. He just wanted to have fun. Nothing more.

Mind racing, he made a quick plan in his head. His roommate would be out most of the night since it was thursday, which meant that he would be having a gig with his band Midnight Haze at a local bar, like every week. He could go pick you up after your shift and bring you over to his apartment.

He could ask you then if you're losing your mind the same way he is.

He brushed off those thoughts, including the stupid plan.

The truth was, he liked whatever he had with you. Friends that fuck. But to everyone else you know, you're sort of a thing. And that is what Seokmin himself suggested, a fake relationship.

A fake relationship between two friends that fuck, no romantic feelings in between. How could this possibly go wrong?

Seokmin didn't tag himself as the obsessive type either. He never did. He was more the kind that went with the flow. If he had something to say to a girl, he would. He didn't dwell too much in it.

He also wasn't overindulgent.

So, why was he sitting in the last rows of your show? If he really wanted to see you, he could just tell you. Seokmin just wanted to stop thinking about you, and going to the theatre did that, and as a bonus, he got to see you. So it was a win win. Kind of.

Soonyoung was the first person he found behind the stage. His friend threw his arms up in the air, a gleeful expression on his face.

"DK! Are you here to see me or you're here to see your girl kill it on the stage?" Soonyoung cheered loudly making sure everyone heard him.

Seokmin pressed his lips together in a smile and replied sarcastically. "I'm here to see you, obviously."

He didn't want to think too much on how Soonyoung addressed you as his girl.

Soonyoung pulled him into a hug. "Ah, I knew it. You didn't have to."

"Ew, you're sweaty," Seokmin said, pulling a face while hugging his friend.

Soonyoung made an attempt to rub his sweaty body against Seokmin's, but he pulled away. "Well, if you're looking for her, she must be changing."

Seokmin wanted to play it cool, but he left immediately to look for you in the dressing rooms.

As an actor, seeing people half dressed, or naked even comes with the job. So as he walked up to your dressing room he saw a few people in the midst of changing out of their costumes. He was fairly popular among the community, and a lot of people already knew that you and Seokmin were a thing, so no one asked what he was doing there.

He waited outside in silence, his heart was pounding on his chest. Scrolling through his phone absentmindedly, he could hear your voice and your laughter coming from the dressing room's door.

Most of the women had left the backstage already, and you were talking to one of your friends, still completely dressed in a voluminous 18th century French dress. The makeup you had was already cleaned off from your face and your hair was lose.

Then Seokmin knocked on the door. And a girl whose name Seokmin didn't remember opened it, eyed him once and smiled.

"Your boyfriend's here," she chanted.

Seokmin heard you gasp, and that made him smile slightly.

"Come in!" you chimed.

As soon as you saw Seokmin you smiled, and the girl in your room scoffed.

"Alright, that's my cue to leave," she said, grabbing her things and promptly saying. "See you next friday, y/n!"

"Bye Mina," you replied and watched your friend leave the door open for Seokmin, who was still waiting in the hallway.

You closed the door of the dressing room as Seokmin stepped in. The scent of his clothes invaded you now that he was standing in front of you.

"You came to watch the show?" you asked him, looking up to find his eyes.

"Yeah, I figured I could treat you to dinner since I left quite abruptly last sunday," Seokmin scratched the back of his head.

"Oh, sure! I'm going to change out of this and we can go."

Seokmin stood there in the middle of the dressing room as he watched you disappear behind a curtain. And struggled against a semi at the mere act of being in the same room with you. He scolded himself in his head, trying to get a hold of himself for a minute.

But then the curtain parted just enough to see you struggle a bit with zippers and layers of skirts. He didn't care that was staring now, his mouth agape just slightly when he saw your bare back, and your hair brush your shoulders.

You dropped the layers of skirts and let them pool at your feet as you scrambled for your things, an exasperated sigh left you when you realized that you didn't bring all your things.

You looked to the ceiling, feeling a bit embarrassed. "Seokmin, can you pass me the purple bag that's on the chair?" you called.

Seokmin tore his eyes off of you, feeling his heart pounding in his chest so hard that he was convinced that you could hear it. He grabbed your bag from the chair that was placed near the door, he locked it and walked to you.

You covered your chest with your forearm as you parted the curtain to grab the bag. All Seokmin noticed was that your arm was squeezing your tits up, making them bulge.

"Thanks," you whispered and looked up to find his eyes.

Seokmin found it cute that you tried to cover yourself, while the only thing you were wearing was a pair of white stockings that went with your outfit. They were translucent, so Seokmin could clearly see the thong you were wearing under them.

"Don't look at me like that," you muttered.

He understood what you meant. Seokmin remembered that he himself told you that, when you were practically drooling at the sight of him naked.

But he saw your rosy cheeks and your eyes searching his face anxiously, waiting.

All he heard was a gasp coming from you when your mouths clashed, lips locking in. You dropped your bag to cup his face in your hands and his hands found your hips quickly, giving you a squeeze.

"You're not really here to take me to dinner, are you?" you whispered as soon as you broke the kiss to breathe.

"I am," his voice was raspy. "Can't I have you and then dinner?"

To his surprise, you laughed. "You're greedy, mister."

"You're the one who tempted me first," Seokmin muttered in your lips. "Leaving the curtain open for me to see you. Casually forgetting your things."

"I only meant for you to watch a little," you smiled. "I did forget my things."

"And you expect me to watch and not do something?" he asked in a whisper. "Have you actually seen yourself?"

You arched an eyebrow. "What do you mean?"

His hands found yours and he dragged you in front of a vanity mirror.

"Seokmin!" you whispered and turned back to him.

"Take these off," he said in a low voice.

You eyed the door briefly, noticing that it was locked. When did you lock it? Or was it him without you noticing? You suppressed a smile.

You took of your stockings off, not without some great effort to not tip over. Seokmin held out a hand for you to help you remove them completely.

When you finished taking them off, you felt your whole body tingling under his lascivious gaze. He took a step towards you, so close now that you could feel his breath brush your face softly. The scent of his clothes could drive you crazy.

"Face the mirror and put your hands on the table," he ordered with a low husky voice.

You did exactly that. Your eyes didn't dare to meet the reflection, knowing what you'd find.

"I love it when you look this flustered," Seokmin said as he leaned on your shoulder to plant a kiss, his fingers parted your hair to the other shoulder, and continued to drag his lips across your shoulder to kiss your neck.

Seokmin found a faint hickey. It was the one he had made when you had sex in your couch. You saw him smile slightly at the memory and he leaned in to press his lips softly on the spot.

Your eyelids fluttered shut.

"You're so pretty," he whispered, sounding a bit aloof. His fingers travelled from your shoulders all the way to your lower back, stopping before the band of your thong.

A soft kiss landed on your cheek, his nose nuzzled in your ear briefly. "Open your eyes, baby," he whispered and your body shivered.

You searched on the reflection for Seokmin's face first. He was looking at you, at your rosy cheeks, the way you were biting your lower lip, your prickled skin and hardened nipples. Your eyes met.

"There you are," he smirked, his hands resting on your hips moved to your lower abdomen. "See how pretty you are?"

"Seokmin," you whispered.

His eyebrows rose a bit. "Yes?"

"P-please, just..." you whimpered and swallowed hard.

"Please what, baby?" he purred as he kissed your shoulder.

You turned your face to meet his and landed a chaste kiss on his lips. "I need you inside me."

His lips formed into a smile that didn't fully show his teeth. "You want me to fuck you right here, baby?"

You pushed your ass back to meet his hips, finding his clothed cock so hard already that you almost moaned.

"Yes, please."

His lustful eyes searched your face once again. "Will you be quiet?" he asked.

You nodded, but then replied with. "Yes. I'll be quiet."

One hand that rested on your lower belly quickly made its way down between your thighs. You bit your lip at the sight on the mirror when his hand buried beneath your thong. You bit harder when his fingers found your wet core.

Seokmin sighed heavily. "You're so wet already," he whispered more to himself than to you, leaving another kiss on your earlobe. He started rubbing circles on your clit expertly, as if he remembered exactly how you liked to be touched just from one night of you having sex.

His other hand cupped one of your tits, squeezing it gently to then circle your nipple with his thumb. Your skin bristled and you sighed softly, watching the motion on your reflection.

"Seokmin, please. Stop teasing me," you pleaded.

The hand that was teasing your nipple cupped the side of your face, angling you so that his lips found yours, he kissed you fiercely, but slowly. His tongue brushed your lower lip and then it met your tongue.

"Do you want me to fuck you in these or you want me to take it off?" he asked, and his fingers tugged at the lace of your thong.

"Fuck me in them, tear them off me. I don't care," you whimpered.

Smiling, he planted a kiss on your lips before saying. "So impatient."

Ignoring him you turned to unbutton his jeans at the same time that he took his white t-shirt off. You glanced at him up and down, still marvelling at the sight of him. Seokmin noticed, and smirked while he watched you pull his underwear down to grab his large hard cock in your hand.

A sigh escaped his lips when your thumb rubbed at its tip, smearing the precum all over the head. Your mouth watered in anticipation but before you could do more, you were being turned around.

"Spread your legs, and keep your hands on the table," he commanded and as you did so, he pressed his hand on your lower back so you bent for him.

Seeing Seokmin's lust-blown eyes made you burn inside, it was so different from the sweet, cheerful friend you've always known. It drove you insane just how much he would change when he was like this with you.

His fingers parted the wet fabric of your thong to the side, his other hand grabbed his large cock and you moaned quietly when he ran the pinkish red tip along your wet folds a couple of times before aligning with your core. His other hand placed down your back, holding you in place.

"Quiet, baby," he reminded you before he eased himself inside you, slowly stretching your tight core open.

The feeling of having him raw was so good, it made your eyes water, but you couldn't blink away from his reflection on the mirror. His brow was furrowed slightly and he, like you, bit his lip to keep from making noises.

Two half strokes in, and you were already holding back your sobs. Seokmin heard you, and sent a warning look your way, but smiled softly when he saw just how desperate you already were.

"You take me so well," he whispered once his cock was sheathed deep within your pussy, you felt your walls tighten slightly at the sound of his words.

And he noticed.

"You like that, don't you baby?" he purred softly when he started thrusting his hips into you deliciously.

You could only nod with your head. Pressing your lips shut as his pace started to pick up speed, hitting you in your soft spot. The sound of skin slapping together, paired with your agitated breath were the only things you could hear.

Your hands gripped at the edges of the desk hard, but it served as a good support as Seokmin slammed into you, making your whole body tremble, robbing you of air as you tried to keep silent.

The reflection on the mirror allowed you to see how Seokmin looked when he fucked you from behind. His free hand caressed your back, pushing your hair from your shoulders to look at your skin fully, his eyelids fluttered a little when his hand grabbed your ass, making you whimper quietly.

Seokmin bent down to kiss your back, his breath landing on your skin so softly that it made you shiver. He left wet kisses along your shoulder, sucking and licking at your sweet spot.

"You feel so fucking good," he muttered, his hand made its way to find your tits, teasing your nipples some more. "So hard for me to pull out."

"Don't," you replied a bit too quickly. "I want you to cum inside me. Please."

His eyes burned into yours through the reflection. If Seokmin thought that fucking you again might sate his need of you, he found out that we couldn't have been more wrong.

"Fuck," Seokmin muttered through his gritted teeth. The hand that grabbed your hip clenched, fingertips digging on your skin. The other hand was still busy pushing your thong out the way. "Rub your clit for me, baby."

Seokmin left a quick kiss on the back of your neck before standing upright again. You did what he asked, rubbing your clit as you watched him pound on you with his exquisite pace. You watched his tongue hung slightly on the corner of his mouth, his brow furrowed in deep focus.

"Seokmin," you whimpered. "Fuck, don't stop."

You were so close to your orgasm, you could almost taste it. Your walls clenched hard at the electrifying feeling rushing inside you, tingling in your limbs and face.

"Shit, baby," he hissed. "You're so fucking tight."

You succumbed under your orgasm easily. It took over you in hot waves, and you thought for a moment of just crying out but the only thing you could do is clamp your mouth shut with your free hand. Watching him with watery eyes as you told him silently that you were cumming.

Seokmin smirked and threw his head back slightly, you watched his throat bob and his eyes flutter close, his jaw clenched tight in an attempt to be quiet as well while he pumped his load inside you.

When you both finished, your knees were shaking uncontrollably. Seokmin's cock was still buried inside you, his gaze was lost in the reflection of your naked body.

It was only when you felt hot liquid dripping down your thigh that you ripped your eyes off of his. You looked down to find cum trailing down your skin.

Seokmin pulled out of you slowly and you winced at the change. But then he was cleaning you off with some tissues he found on the vanity desk.

He landed a kiss on your thigh before standing up to discard of the used tissues. Then he turned and cupped your face with his hands, his thumbs brushing off the tears from your cheeks.

"Are you okay? Do you want me to help you get dressed up?" he asked, surveying your body with his eyes.

"I think I can do it," you replied, feeling your throat hoarse from the silent screaming.

"Okay. But be quick. We need to get out of here," he said softly, and then remembered that the crew was still dismantling the equipment on the stage upstairs.

Seokmin put his t-shirt on again and fixed his underwear and jeans to then gather your clothes while you got dressed in record time. You made sure that you didn't look too dishevelled before leaving the dressing room.

Seokmin threw your duffel bag over his shoulder, and you thought that he it was so cute of him that he always tried to do small acts of service. You followed closely as he was walking a few paces in front of you while you two made your way out of the theatre.

"Maybe we can still find that ramen place open, wanna go there?" he asked.

"Sure," you said, feeling your stomach wake at the mention of food.

Seokmin felt elated, just like he felt the night he fucked you in your couch. As you walked beside him, he wondered if you felt the same way.

When you got to the ramen restaurant, you and Seokmin sat facing each other. Seokmin heard you ramble about a play you've always wanted to do, and every now and then he would interrupt you to agree. He heard you talk about your role you were playing currently, and then he noticed a glint in your eyes.

The glint that Seokmin thought you lost when you and your ex split.

It made him feel warm inside, to know that you were finding hope again in the things that you liked doing. But he thought nothing more of it. He didn't dare to.

"Anyway, I ordered a new mattress," you said in an aloof manner, gathering enough noodles to stuff your mouth with.

"Oh?" Seokmin wasn't unfamiliar with your abrupt way of changing the subject, which you did too often.

He had already finished his food, and he was just hearing you ramble freely.

"It's arriving on monday," you said with nodding your head. "I wanted to ask if you want to come by and help me assemble the bed frame."

You stole a glance at him, a small smile had appeared on his lips.

"Sure, I'll help," he said, blinking lazily.

"Are you dozing off, Lee Seokmin?" you questioned.

"You take ages to finish your food," Seokmin laughed.

But Seokmin wasn't dozing off. He was just happy.

Seokmin had rehearsals on monday morning. They were still in the early stages of putting the show together, so the rehearsal consisted more of reading the script and putting together his scenes.

So the cast and crew was relaxed. Some people were sitting on the floor, some were lying as lines of the script were read aloud and modified accordingly. He felt he had an easy job, despite being the lead actor, he felt at ease with his character.

After Seokmin and you left the restaurant friday night, he walked you home. You two talked some more about your jobs, and reminisced after the few shows you had the opportunity to do together. When he walked you to your building, he pulled you into a tight hug, hoping that his obsession of you was sated.

But as soon as he saw you sitting alone, watching him rehearse, he felt his belly lurch. It wasn't exactly a surprise for him, he knew you were coming since he was the one who told you to meet after rehearsal for lunch..

He glanced at the smartwatch on his wrist, which was notifying him about a change on his heartbeat and indicated he might want to take a breather since Seokmin was experiencing an anxiety attack.

Seokmin found that funny.

The rehearsal went on for fifteen minutes. As they were wrapping up, he glanced again to where you sat. But now there was another person beside you, and Seokmin recognized your ex straight away. His mid long black hair, the tattoos on his shoulders, Seokmin couldn't see his face, but he imagined your ex would have a sly smile plastered on his mouth as he talked to you.

Seokmin knew that your ex was part of his castmates, he played a minor role so Seokmin didn't see him frequently. And didn't think to tell you because the thought never crossed his mind.

He made an attempt to keep gathering the props around the stage while keeping a watchful eye on you. Your body language was relaxed, but your brow was slightly furrowed as you listened to whatever your ex was telling you.

Seokmin wanted to jump off the stage and go investigate what was going on. To everyone you knew, you were Seokmin's girl. His girl. So, it wouldn't be weird to walk up to you and get you out of your ex's claws, right?

But, Seokmin was alarmed at his own thinking. He was jealous. He knew that, and he would face that fact later. He quickly went backstage to collect his backpack and things and went to meet you on the seats.

When you looked up to see him making his way up the rows of seats, you felt a wave of relief wash over you and Seokmin noticed your brow relax. He didn't want to look at your ex, out of fear that he would lose what little control he could muster on himself.

"Hey baby," Seokmin said to you softly, and he turned to your ex, giving him a curt nod. "Youngho. Mind if I steal her from you?"

Before your ex could say anything, you were standing up, grabbing your bag and walked to his side.

"Sure thing man," he said nonchalantly. "We were done talking anyway."

"Good," Seokmin snapped. "See you then."

And with that you and Seokmin made your way down to the back exit of the theatre. Seokmin had an arm over your shoulders, which he used to pull you to kiss your head, a move that gave him the chance to give your ex a final deadly look.

"What happened?" Seokmin demanded when you got outside the theatre.

Hot tears were stinging your eyes, and you couldn't bring yourself to speak, you just continued walking to nowhere in particular.

Seokmin grabbed your wrist and pulled you aside on the sidewalk. "Hey, hey, don't cry. Look at me. What happened?" he cupped your face, his eyes scanning you.

You shook her head, feeling tears stream down your cheeks.

"What did he say to you?" his gaze was deadly serious.

"I'm fine, he didn't say anything important," you sobbed. "Just more of the same."

His thumbs brushed your tears away. "Then why are you crying?"

You licked your trembling lips, breathing deeply so you could actually speak. "I'm just angry that I couldn't say anything to him. I'm so fucking weak."

"Don't say that," he hushed. "You're not weak."

"All this time I wished to tell him how much I hate him for what he did to me and now that I had the chance I just couldn't bring myself to it."

Seokmin's heart shattered a little, he pulled you into a hug, your face was staining his shirt with tears. "It's fine. You're okay, you're okay."

You clung at his shirt, his large hands soothing you in your back as you stopped sobbing. "God, I'm so sorry for that."

Seokmin's brow furrowed slightly. "For what?"

"Crying," you smiled, wiping your tears with your hands.

"You don't have to apologize for that, dummy," Seokmin said.

"I thought I was under control."

Me too, Seokmin thought to himself, thinking of how he reacted. But he just shrugged. "I don't blame you. I think it's normal."

But he was so close to you what he could smell your breath of honey cough drops and your sweet perfume. He couldn't help but feel a tight knot on his stomach when he saw the rosy tip of your nose and cheeks.

"You're pretty when you cry," he said, before he could hold a reign in his mouth.

But he was relieved when he saw you smile. "That's a bit sadistic of you, don't you think?"

"Made you smile," he shrugged again. "You feel better now?"

You nodded with your head, wiping the wetness from your face. "I'm hungry, actually. And you promised to take me to lunch before you assembled my bed frame."

"Ah, I always keep my promises," Seokmin said, with a sharp tug at his heart.

Lunch was quiet. You both decided to grab something to go and eat it peacefully at the park. It was something that took you back to your university days, when you, Seokmin, Soonyoung and Seungkwan were broke, but always hopeful to make it to the stage.

Seokmin couldn't stop going back to the memory of how he felt when he saw your ex talking to you. The sharp pain in his stomach when his first instinct was protecting you.

And he noticed you were immersed in your thoughts too. It wasn't uncomfortable silence. It was just two friends enjoying each other's presence.

"Oh, the package just arrived," you muttered as you were finishing your sandwich, looking at your phone screen.

"Should we go?" he asked, but you were already on your feet. So he followed, he had already finished his food anyway.

Seokmin smiled, watching you run to the nearest station, only stopping to wait for him. "Come on, dummy. I don't have all day."

"Oh, right. You work today?" Seokmin remembered.

"Not really, I asked someone to cover for me," you smiled cheekily.

"Then you do have all day," he said as they boarded the tube and sat down together.

"I want to make the most of it," you shrugged. "I have no time for myself lately, and besides what if we can't finish setting up the bed today? It would have to wait until next week when you're free."

His lips pursed into a pout. "So you're using me to help you?"

You laughed. "I'm sorry you find out this way."

He watched you lean towards him when you laughed, placing a hand on his knee. He broke his act and found himself smiling with you.

When you two arrived to your building Seokmin grabbed the packaged mattress from the foyer, and carried it to the elevator and then to your apartment.

You quickly kicked off your shoes and went to the kitchen, and Seokmin watched you return with scissors in your hands.

"What are you doing?" he exclaimed, holding out a cautious hand for you.

"Why, I want to open it," you shrugged.

"You do that when I finish setting up your bed, okay?" he said laughing at you.

"Right," your shoulders decayed a bit. "Sorry, I'm just excited about finally sleeping on a bed."

"Yeah, I noticed," Seokmin laughed. He set the rolled up mattress down and kicked off his shoes, hanged his things on a rack in the entrance of your apartment.

Your bedroom was partially decorated. It had two nightstands, large piles of books accommodated on a corner next to an arm chair and creamy white curtains that were opened to let in the warm autumn sunlight.

Seokmin frowned whenever he had to stop to reread the manual. The bed frame was halfway done in under an hour. You were instructed to stay put and watch him, since you were of no help at all. So you sat on your armchair and watched him get to work.

He took off his grey plaid shirt, which he was wearing on top a white tank top. You found amusing how focused he was, whenever he stopped and sighed, removing his cap to run a hand over his hair and putting on the cap backwards.

"Now, you can open the mattress," Seokmin said when the bed frame was put together in the middle of your room.

"Nice," you hissed excitedly, grabbing the scissors and slashing the plastic holding the rolled up mattress.

His hands came up to help you remove the plastic off completely before propping up the mattress on the frame as it slowly unfolded.

"Well, it's done. You have a bed now," Seokmin said sounding tired, his hands on his hips.

"Thank you, mister," you said, holding out your hand up for him to give you a high-five, which he did with half a smile on his face.

You had some sheets ready, but the mattress was extending slowly over.

"Well, you want to order some food?" you suggested, turning to him.

He searched your eyes for a minute. Seokmin was realizing that he liked spending more time with you and making plans, but he also found it conflicting, since he couldn't shake off his doubts over his obsession of you.

But he decided to indulge, yet again.

"That'd be nice," he nodded with his head.

You two sat at the couch close together while you chose what you wanted to order on Seokmin's phone.

"Now we wait," Seokmin announced as he finished ordering.

You both sat in silence for a minute before turning to Seokmin only to find his eyes on you, staring at you silently. As your eyes set on his, Seokmin felt something pulsating inside him, it was hungry, eager to satisfy.

"We never stablished ground rules," you muttered nervously.

"Don't you think we're way pass that?" the corners of Seokmin's lips rose slightly.

A hand touched Seokmin's cheek, sparks ignited inside him. "Yeah, maybe," he heard you whisper, before pulling him into a tender, hot kiss.

Seokmin swore he could've melt right there, on your lips. He reached for your face with his hands at the same time as he pushed you back against the couch, trapping you with his body. He positioned himself between your legs, kissing you deeply.

"You can fuck me in a bed now," you muttered playfully on his lips, your fingers caressing the sides of his face softly.

"Who said I was going to fuck you?" he quipped with a grin.

You pouted. "Pretty please?"

The hands that were resting on his face travelled down to his back and found his clothed butt, giving him a squeeze pushing him down to meet your hips. You bit his lower lip as you did that, prying his mouth open to give him a deep kiss, your tongue lapping on his.

"Mmm..." Seokmin pretended to ponder over it, while he busied himself kissing your face. "You know, with all this fucking I might start to think that you might like this a little too much."

Seokmin's lips were on yours before you could muster a response. His lips moved to your chin, and then under your jaw, and in no time they were sucking at your sweet spot, marking you again.

"Don't get any funny ideas, mister," he heard you mutter shakily.

Seokmin laughed dryly, and heard you moan when he nibbled at the soft skin on your neck. "I'm not the one begging to be fucked."

You couldn't find a response, Seokmin's hands were rolling up your hoodie to reveal your tummy, placing wet kisses above your bellybutton. He undid the button of your jeans, and with one swift move, he took them off you and toss them away.

"I like these," he muttered, running a finger over the band of your black lacey thong. "Did you wear it for me?"

It was a bold question, one that Seokmin would not have asked in his better judgment.

But to his surprise, you nodded. "Thought you might like it."

Seokmin smiled, a fluttering sensation filling his chest.

With a curious glance at your face, he cocked his head slightly to the side before rolling up your hoodie above your tits. Seokmin discovered you didn't wear a bra today.

He ran his tongue over his lower lip before bending down to plant a chaste kiss on your mouth. "You're so fucking hot," he muttered.

"Likewise," you found yourself saying, and couldn't help but feel your heart flutter in your chest.

Seokmin just laughed, placing another kiss on your lip before turning his attention to your neck. "You're a bit needy today, aren't you baby?"

You tried saying no. But just at the sound of him calling you that you knew you had no case. Your walls throbbed, making you gulp.

He placed his elbows to your sides, so his hands were just a few centimetres from your chest. His thumbs found your nipples and started massaging them in circles so softly that your skin prickled.

You bit your lip as Seokmin licked, bit and kiss your neck and collarbones.

"What happened?" he cooed when you didn't come up with a response.

You shook your head. "Take me to the bed," you muttered under a shaky breath.

A small huff came from Seokmin's lips as he pressed them to a smile, a small dimple appeared beneath his mouth. "Someone's getting bossy," he quipped, but stood up from the sofa and extended a hand out to help you stand up.

Seokmin grabbed your hand as you made your way to your bedroom, and used that hand to pull your body close to his, cupping your face with his hands as he turned to kissed you.

Then, he felt your hands flat on his chest pushing you to the edge of the bed, where he sat down and lifted his head to see you, his eye twinkling with excitement.

Seokmin watched you take your hoodie off and drop it to the floor, leaving your body completely bare to the exception of your panties. His swallowed hard at the sight of you, his intense gaze scanning your body up and down as you sat on his lap, straddling him.

"I want to make you feel good," you mumbled, and Seokmin thought he heard a tinge of endearment in your voice, but decided that it was just the heat of the moment.

"Oh, yeah?" his voice became a raspy whisper.

Your hands tugged at the white tank top he was wearing and Seokmin leaned back a bit to give you room to take it off his body. Once his torso was naked you pushed him again, and with a faint laugh, Seokmin laid the upper half of his body on your naked mattress.

The sight of him lying beneath you made your core wet. His lustful eyes followed you as you leaned forward to kiss his face and under his jaw, testing and exploring his neck. He let out a soft sigh when you found his sensitive spot on the crook of his neck, and decided to suck on it.

His hands finding your bare back and dragged them to cup your ass, squeezing and massaging firmly, making you groan in his mouth against his neck.

Seokmin felt intoxicated by the smell of your hair falling on the side of his face. Your chest was so close to his that he felt your hardened nipples brushing his skin ever so slightly, making him shudder.

He had his eyes closed, breathing you in, feeling your skin against his.

Your mouth returned to his to kiss you fervently. And he decided to use his hands to push your hips down on him so you could feel his growing boner behind the thick fabric of his jeans.

You pulled your head back, propping yourself with your hands on his hard chest a bit to see him fully and grinded on the bulge of his dark jeans, feeling your slick rub in the thin fabric of your panties.

Seokmin watched your face broken in lust and concentration while you grinded your hips against bulging cock, and realized he loved the faces you made when you were aroused, when he had you like this.

You bent forward to capture his lips with yours, tongue slipping on his lower lip, earning a throaty moan from him.

"Can I suck you off?" you asked almost sheepishly.

Seokmin used a hand on the side of your head to get more kisses from you. "You can do whatever you want to me."

And that much was true.

Scooting back, your fingers undid the button of his jeans and stood back on the floor to undress him completely. Seokmin smiled and helped you through it, lifting his hips so that you could get rid of his underwear.

Seokmin saw your face the moment his large cock hit his lower abdomen with a soft thud, the way your eyes opened and you bit your lip. You eyed him once before dropping to your knees Seokmin propped himself on his elbows as he felt your hands on his length, you rubbing your thumb along his reddened tip.

A sigh escaped him when he saw you spit on the tip of his cock, using your hand to smear your saliva on his length before stuffing it in your mouth. His hand came to pull your hair back to see your face as you took his cock in your mouth.

What followed then was Seokmin's voice softly calling your name, and the noises that your mouth made on his cock, whenever you would swirl your tongue or suck on his tip.

You wanted to feel shy at the sounds that came from your mouth as you bobbed your head, taking him fully, but didn't care. You felt yourself grow more aroused, to the point that you could feel your juices smear on your crotch.

"That feels so fucking good," he groaned when your tongue swirled on the tip of his throbbing cock and pushed your head down on him and then up at the same time you hollowed your cheeks.

"Shit," he hissed, and the hand clutching your hair tightened.

That made you moan, and went in to do that same movement with your mouth to get him to the edge. But then you were pulled back by Seokmin's hands, so unexpectedly that you almost gagged when his cock left your throat.

"I don't want to cum just yet," he muttered as he grabbed your wrists and pulled you into his arms, so now you were both lying on the mattress, him pinning your body under his to kiss you fiercely.

His hands tugged at the band of your thong, pulling away from your mouth to yank your thong from you. But you were so wet that a thin string of your own arousal fell on your thigh when Seokmin removed the only thing that covered your cunt.

"Fuck." Seokmin muttered at the sight of it. "Spread your legs, baby."

You complied, swallowing thickly at the sight of him on his knees of your brand new mattress, his thick bare thighs, cock hard and glistening wet of your saliva. His strong veiny arms hooked under your legs and he tugged you down towards his body on the mattress, making you squeal from the sudden movement.

Seokmin shoved one of his middle fingers in your wet core and you moaned instantly. "You're so fucking wet. From sucking me off?"

"Seokmin," you whimpered as his other middle finger joined in, feeling embarrassed that you were already squirming under him with just two fingers shoved inside.

Your walls clamped around his fingers when you saw Seokmin take his large cock in hand to give it a few pumps to ease his ache as he continued to finger you, his lip trapped behind his teeth and eyes burning with lust.

"Just tell me what you want, baby," he put in simply when you started squirming.

"I- uuhhm-fuck," you muttered when his fingers curled inside your walls, hitting on a sensitive spot. "Want you inside me."

A throaty chuckle came out of him. "Ah baby, where are your manners?" he pulled out his fingers as he watched you scramble for him, causing his mouth to curve into a half-smile.

You ignored the way his cooing made your cheeks feel hot in embarrassment. "Please," you whimpered. "Please, just fuck me."

Seokmin battled against the idea of making you beg a little more. He liked this look on you, flustered, your chapped lips, rosy cheeks and glistening eyes. But he couldn't deny that he wanted you as much as you wanted him.

And with that, Seokmin lowered his hips to meet yours but stopped to grab one of your legs to hold it up his lean shoulder, and landed a wet kiss on the side of your knee.

"Ready?" he breathed as his cockhead pushed at your entrance.

You sucked in a breath. "Yes."

Seokmin pushed his cock in you, slowly, his eyes committing to the memory of the expression on your face, brow furrowed, eyes closed and your mouth agape.

"Breathe, baby," he muttered and you did so along with a sob. He moaned and nuzzled his nose in the crook beneath your knee. More kisses fell on the side of your knee as a way of comfort for you.

The leg that was supported on Seokmin's shoulder gave him more room to go in deeper in you. His hips met yours fully, his cock buried deeper inside you than ever before.

"Are you okay?" he asked in a strained voice, waiting for your signal to move.

"Yeah," you sobbed with a nod of your head. "Just... move, please, Seokmin," you urged him on, feeling desperate as your walls throbbing around his length.

Seokmin waisted no time and dragged himself out your cunt and pushed in again, slowly. He earned a few cries from you as you adjusted to his size and the new position he was fucking you in. It felt more intense and raw, even when he was thrusting in and out slowly.

"Faster," you breathed, and then added, "please."

Seokmin bit his lip as he grinned at you and said something about your manners again before leaning forwards to your body, his hands sinking into the mattress at your sides.

He started thrusting in you faster, and harder. You also heard him groan in pleasure, but the room was soon flooded by your cries and moans.

Your hands needed to hold onto something, desperately wriggling under his hips as you quickly felt tension building up between your thighs.

Quickly you grabbed his wrists, since your leg was still resting on his shoulder and between you and him. Tears accumulated on the corners of your eyes as his hips rammed into you, hitting you in your golden spot hard and fast.

Then a wave of pleasure washed over you, suddenly, almost brutally. You called his name and cried out, as Seokmin rode your high with precise thrusts, biting the soft flesh behind your knee.

But he didn't stop, he kept pushing in and you were aware that you zoned out for a minute. Tears sprung out of the corners of your eyes as you tried to gain composure by dragging deep breaths in your mouth along with weak moans.

"Did you cum?" Seokmin asked, the tone of his voice sweet but you could tell he was mocking. "Aw, baby. I just got started."

He lowered your leg and leaned his upper body forward so that his body hovered over you. His lips locked with yours once before continuing to slam his hips against yours.

"You still with me?" he asked, a small smile rising on his lips.

Seokmin's smile widened when you nodded with your head. "Uh-huh," you hummed, but cringed visibly when his hips buckled over yours, changing his pace to a slower one.

He wanted to savour the moment, savour you while he fucked you silly.

Now that his body was within your reach, you slid your hands on his back to trace soft lines on his column, earning a deep moan from him, he dipped his head to clamp your mouth with his.

A hand slid under your head, Seokmin grabbed a handful of hair at the base of your head as the other hand tapped at your leg, motioning you to wrap your legs around him.

When you did, he began to move his hips faster again, now that his body pinned you completely to the mattress. You moaned loudly into his mouth as he kissed you fiercely, his hand gripped your hair tighter, as if he wanted to merge into your lips.

Seokmin stopped kissing you only so that he could hear your moans, and he slammed his hips on yours to hear you cry out his name.

Deciding he wanted to test something, the grip on your hair tightened and you cried out in pleasure. "Fuck," you gulped, "That feels so good."

Your hands cupped his face, bringing him to another kiss, and you could tell that he was smiling on your lips.

His forehead dropped on yours at the same moment that his hands slid down your ass to angle your hips towards his, fucking you deeper, faster; almost in an animalistic pace.

You cried out, nails digging hard on the soft skin of his back, making him groan and grit his teeth.

"Are you going to cum again?" he asked when your moans got louder.

You tried to nod with your head, but his forehead was still pressing against yours. "Yes," you hissed cupping his face again with your hands. "Keep going. Please, don't stop."

His lips ghosted over yours, strangled moans coming out of his chapped lips. "Cum with me, baby," he whispered.

It was all you needed. You moaned on his mouth as another wave of sweet release shook your body as hard as your first orgasm. His name on your tongue, chanting it on his lips as if it were a mantra. Seokmin also moaned in your mouth, as he pumped his cum deep inside you.

Seokmin showered you with sloppy kisses as his hips came to a stop and you laid limp under his warm body, feeling like you wanted to fall sleep right then and there.

When he pulled out and his arms slid under you to hug you and then he was flipping you over, resting your body on top of his and snapping you out of it just a bit.

A hand pushed your hair back, his lazy eyes surveying you closely. "Are you okay?"

"'M okay," you mumbled languidly, resting your forehead on his again. "Perfect, actually."

Seokmin smiled and kissed you sweetly, his hands trailed gently up and down over your back. "I'll get the shower ready."

He laid you back on the mattress and you watched him leave the bed and disappear on the bathroom. The sound of the shower followed next, and Seokmin reappeared again. You laid watching him fully naked, his heavy lidded eyes and his hair dishevelled.

"Can you stand?" he asked.

For a second you pondered, and when he saw you hesitate, he pulled you into his arms in one swift movement. A yelp slipped out of you, but you realized that you liked being manhandled by him.

"Wrap your arms around my neck," Seokmin muttered before lowering you to the shower floor and you did what he said, finding support on his body.

The warm water washed your body and Seokmin's, his wet bangs stuck to his forehead, and you watched droplets of water fall from the sharp tip of his nose. He was beautiful. The freckles on his face, his sweet brown eyes, and the dimples that formed under his lips when he smiled.

"What?" he muttered, almost in a shy tone.

"Stay with me tonight," the words came out of you before you could stop yourself.

Seokmin hesitated for a bit. He knew he wanted to say yes the minute he heard you, but he still had a lot to think. However, he probably was more self-indulgent than he initially thought.

"Sure."

When you finished cleaning yourself up, Seokmin announced that the food was delivered to your doorman and went to get it. That gave you a chance to make your bed while you waited.

You ate dinner on the couch while watching Twilight. Seokmin had never watched it, and you knew he just had to watch it at least once in his life. You had to experience him watching that mess for the first time.

"Well, that was... really bad," he determined as soon as the credits rolled in.

"What?!" you exclaimed, feigning shock.

"Why did you make me watch that?" he complained, matching your fake shock.

"Cause it's a classic!" you laughed.

"That was probably the worst ninety minutes of my life," he said, pouting his lips to avoid breaking into a smile.

"The next one is better, I promise."

His eyebrows rose. "There's more?"

"Yeah. And we're going to watch them all."

His lips pressed together in a smile. "Fine. But I'm going to ask for some compensation for sitting through this."

Excitement tingled deep inside you when you crawled on the sofa over to him. You straddled his lap and pulled him into a kiss with your hands over his shoulders. His hands quickly found your hips and groaned again when you licked his lower lip.

"You can tell me how you'd like to be compensated in bed," you hummed, running a fingertip over his lower lip.

Seokmin sighed, but it wasn't a sigh of exhaustion, but of the feeling in his chest. "You're really needy, you know that right?"

You shrugged, one hand stroking the hair at the base of his head. "I mean, you could always just say no."

He laughed dryly, but his hands cupped your face. "Come here," he said in a low voice, pulling you to his lips.

Hours later, the autumn rain was pattering against your bedroom window, filling the room with a continuous soothing sound. Seokmin laid on your bed, a hand buried on your hair as your head rested on his chest.

You were breathing softly. Seokmin realized you had fallen asleep after you stopped talking for what seemed like hours, your arm draped over him, your naked bodies huddled under the sheets. He let out a deep sigh.

His thoughts went through everything he'd been experiencing since he first kissed you. His mind was even more conflicted than before. It wasn't just the sex, though he knew it was a huge part it.

Because now, he had to face the fact that he was breaking his promise to you. He was no longer doing it for attention, or for fun. He knew that nothing could satiate his obsession for you, because maybe he was the one that liked this―you a bit too much.

And he still wasn't sure what he would do about it.

♡︎ a/n: auuughh, i love seokmin sfm u-u. thank you for reading! i'd appreciate it a ton if you give it a like, rb or comment. click here to read pt 3 (｡- .•)

#lee seokmin x reader #lee seokmin smut #dk x reader #dk smut #svt smut #seventeen smut #svt x reader #dk fanfic #lee seokmin fanfic #svt fanfic #ff:backstage #hannieween #kpop fanfic #kpop smut

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maxdibert · 1 month ago

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Tonks feels that she is obsessed with Remus to the point that she prefers to die with him in the war with Remus than to raise Teddy, whom she left with his mother Andromeda Tonks.

Am I the only one who felt that way about Remadora? I don't like the couple; they would seem very toxic to me in real life, Tonks being emotionally dependent on Remus.

And let's not mention the age difference, I don't like Tonks' insistence on being with that useless Remus.

Do you like the remadora ship? Sorry if I asked, but I'm new to your blog.

I find this couple extremely problematic for many reasons, and honestly, I don’t think the decision to pair Tonks with Remus was planned from the beginning, it felt incredibly forced. But above all, it led to the complete erasure of Tonks as a character and of her independence as a woman and narrative subject.

Tonks is introduced as a skilled Auror, charismatic, full of personality, and with a narrative presence of her own. She is an independent character, and that individuality is shattered the moment she falls in love with Lupin. She basically turns into his lapdog, following him around, desperate for his attention. I find it deeply troubling that a female character is turned from a fully realised subject into a mere extension of a male character with greater narrative weight. But what’s worse is that Rowling’s concept of love seems to involve a young woman essentially harassing an older man and completely disregarding his boundaries. Because Remus tells her “no”, and she refuses to accept that no. And no means no, no matter how much you like someone or how little you’re convinced by their reasons for turning you down. But just as Rowling frames Harry/Ginny as the ultimate couple—despite Ginny having stalked Harry her entire life—or portrays James and Lily as peak romantic love even though James literally blackmailed Lily into going out with him, she repeats the same toxic, problematic dynamics when it comes to Remus and Tonks.

Apparently, for Rowling, love means overriding people’s boundaries and consent, or at least putting them on hold “in the name of love”. There’s definitely room here to dig deeper and analyse just how much her view of romance is shaped by patriarchal ideals, but that’s not the point right now.

What matters is that Tonks goes from being a promising young woman with a career as an Auror to a girl chasing and chasing after a man thirteen years older than her, a man who says no repeatedly. But she doesn’t care. And the most outrageous part is that it’s not just her, everyone in the Order seems to agree that Remus should accept the relationship, regardless of his reluctance. There’s group pressure, because obviously, how could anyone possibly want to be alone in the Harry Potter universe? As if people couldn’t be happy without their heterosexual partner and nuclear family. In the end, Remus gives in, in the middle of this toxic, borderline non-consensual mess, and Tonks stops being Tonks. She becomes Remus’s partner and the future mother of his child.

Exactly what happens to Fleur too: a character we meet as strong, independent, smart—a Triwizard Champion, no less—who once she gets married, is reduced to a background wife. Everyone seems to forget she was once brave enough to move to another country, work there, and learn a new language. Once she’s married, she becomes just “Bill’s wife”. This is a recurring pattern in Rowling’s world: women seem to lose all ambition and independence once they get married, and they’re not allowed to exist as individuals beyond their husbands. Tonks suffers this fate exactly, her role as an Auror or Order member becomes irrelevant. Now she only exists through Lupin and for Lupin’s development. She is made entirely subordinate to him.

And it doesn’t stop there. She also becomes part of one of the most grotesque subplots in the whole series: Tonks is 24 years old (and I’m sorry, but a 24-year-old getting pregnant by a man pushing 40 is problematic whether people like it or not), and she gets knocked up by this greying man, and he abandons her. It’s the most disgusting subplot in all seven books. A cishet man gets a much younger woman pregnant and bails because he’s scared. AND THE NARRATIVE FORGIVES HIM. Rowling actually has the audacity to portray Remus as if he’s repented, and suddenly everything’s fine.

Tonks is turned into this pitiful, spineless woman with no self-respect who just forgives the man who left her in the middle of a pregnancy—with all the emotional, psychological, and physical toll that pregnancy takes on women—because he was too much of a coward. A man abandons you and you practically thank him for coming back??? It’s insulting. It’s a slap in the face to women, plain and simple. That whole scene is dripping with patriarchal, macho nonsense. It reads like something out of a trashy soap opera.

And then she gives birth and goes off to war, postpartum, to die. That’s not bravery, that’s J.K. Rowling being a piece of shit and not respecting her female characters.

So no, I can’t stand Remus/Tonks. To me, they’re the epitome of a toxic, deeply problematic couple.

#Remus lupin #nymphadora tonks #Remus and Tonks #remadora #remadora meta #remadora analysis #genre analysis #jk rowling

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tevanbegins · 1 year ago

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This is a long rant to shoot down mad BoB theories insisting that Tommy is a villain / secret spy in cahoots with Gerrard / plot device / temporary LI. The show's writers are mature adults who surely wouldn't go so out of the way to villainize a queer character? To the extent that he'd fool all the main characters into thinking he was a good guy and great for Buck for an entire season, and then start revealing his true colors in the next season? To make a beautiful storyline about queer joy blow up into flames with such a major negative plot twist? All so that Eddie can suddenly realise he is gay and he and Buck can get together? I seriously don't think a 60 year old showrunner would allow such childish nonsense to happen on his show.

I'm not saying queer characters can't play dark / negative roles — Eva's character is an example from this very show itself. But the writers always told us that she is a bad influence on Hen's life right from the start, never got us attached to her by depicting her as a great person in the beginning and then revealing later that she is bad. If Tommy was meant to be horrible for Buck, the narrative would clearly tell us that from the start the way they did with Eva and Hen. The writers cannot be so insensitive as to give the LGBTQ+ community such significant mlm representation with Buck and Tommy, first making us fall in love with their romance and then humiliating us (as well as Buck) by completely destroying Tommy's character — all to serve the end purpose of making a fanon ship go canon? That might happen in B*ddie fanfics written by teenagers, but it can't happen on a show being written for a sensible, mature audience by grown-ass career TV writers!!!

B*ddie would have happened a long time ago if the writers wanted to make it canon. They are not going to do it now, definitely not by making Tommy the scapegoat in that awful mess, just so the toxic portion of the fandom can be appeased over the rest of the audiences who appreciate the show for its thoughtful and sensitive storytelling.

Why is maligning Tommy even necessary to make B*ddie canon? Like Eddie and Buck have seen each other dating one woman after another through the seasons but only Tommy being the bad guy will suddenly lead to a feelings realisation arc? Why didn't it happen before, or why couldn't it happen without reintroducing Tommy if B*ddie canon was always the end plan? Probably because the writers aren't interested in going there at all, and Tommy is genuinely being written as a long-term LI for Buck?

Backing this argument is the fact that most of the conversations had by the other characters after Buck's coming out have not been explicitly about him now identifying as bisexual, but more about him being involved with Tommy. If Tommy was being written as a plot device or a short-term LI, I don't think the other characters (including Eddie, mind you) would be hyping him up during these conversations. The writers would have probably framed the conversations on the lines of, "Oh wow Buck you realised you're bisexual? Congratulations!" instead of "OMG you and Tommy? Tell us more / We love him for you and approve of you two together!" They wouldn't take the efforts they've been taking to make Tommy a pivotal subject of these conversations if he was just a plot device as the BoBs believe. And if he was supposed to be a villain, the other characters would have told Buck to find someone better if they thought Tommy's vibes were off. Not all of them can be foolish to not see through Tommy if he was truly as bad as BoBs say he is (especially not Bobby.) Yes, Buck's bisexuality is valid regardless of who he dates or even if he doesn't, but the fact the characters talk so positively about both him + Tommy during these convos clearly implies this is an important love story blended into the coming out arc.

If B*ddie canon was in the works, JLH and Kenny Choi wouldn't have said on their IG lives that it's not going to happen, Ryan Guzman wouldn't be referring to Eddie as heterosexual, etc. So, we cannot let the BoB comments get into our heads because they are not the ones writing the show. I think we can expect a lot better from Tim & Co. than them giving in to the delusional fantasies BoBs want to see being manifested. Wanted to say this piece because I am fed up of seeing the BoB conspiracy theories all over and don't want to give them the power to steal our joy. That's all for now!

___

#911 discourse #tevan #kinley #bucktommy #tommy kinard #evan buckley #evan ‘buck’ buckley #911 abc #evan x tommy #buck x tommy #tommy x buck #tommybuck

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mswyrr · 9 months ago

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They presented the possibility of older women--who were repeatedly described as "covenless witches" in a story that also repeatedly told us a witch needs a coven--finding community again and a new reason to live in each other and their own power and then "subverted our expectations" with these women dying to serve a male character's story.

That was the point of their stories. Him.

It isn't common for older women in US pop culture to get depicted as people who are capable of rebirth. Of lives, desires, hopes and dreams that matter beyond solely being a mother. It rarely happens, and it didn't happen here.

It's rare for stories to deal metaphorically with real things - like women who get clean or make positive change in their 40s or 50s. Women who find each other and aren't alone and "forgotten" anymore. These things happen -- yes, sisterhood is sometimes a lie and sometimes "people never change." Sure, those things happen. But sometimes sisterhood isn't a lie; sometimes people make change in their lives.

You don't see these stories when they're women though, especially not older women, especially not gay women.

I'm glad for Jen. She doesn't have a community, though. A witch needs a coven they told us, over and over again. They showed us them getting one small taste of the joy they could share together, in their scene of flight. But that was just for Billy too. And now everyone else is dead. To serve the male character's journey, give him some angst.

Agatha is forever spiritually dead--not experiencing any kind of emotional breakthrough or change--because she's not the lead, so she's static so she can serve as a device within the true lead's journey.

She can't even be allowed the growth I pictured as the worst case scenario - where she dies for *the coven*--so they can live and have community and spiritual rebirth together--and makes enough peace to go with Rio. She doesn't even get that much, to get to have a real death that matters and has a sense of completion to it, where we can imagine her reunited with her child and/or at peace with Rio. She can't have that because she has to be Billy's amusing sidekick, his Jarvis, his moral warning lesson about his powers and the witches he got killed and his angst. Because his story matters and theirs didn't.

I was talking to a friend the other day about how love stories often have a "point of symbolic death, when all hope seems lost" (concept from Pamela Regis's study of romance novel structure) and with mf couples they get to rise again from that, into rebirth, into new life. Ff canon couples in stories often, due to a bunch of reasons, aren't allowed that narrative power. They remain trapped in tragedy and despair. I thought surely Agatha herself though, as the lead character, would get to have some kind of change or rebirth as part of a community of women, given that her core wound is betrayal by community -- but she, as a character, doesn't get to go into the symbolic underworld and change and be reborn, because she was never the lead character to begin with.

Sapphic love remains broken once it breaks, the "point of symbolic death" is literal death or a shattering end, there is no rebirth. We, I guess, lack the symbolic potency to come back, in the eyes of the world? We are not generative. "Which one's the man?" "How do they even have sex?" "Your marriage isn't real because you can't make babies." (Kudos for subverting that one, though, show! Except... a child born of women, without a man, cannot live a full life I guess?) And specifically, as a 30something queer woman, people who call my wife, after I've described her as my wife, my "girlfriend" and are shocked by how long we've been together. That we're grown women and our commitment is right down to the bone, that it has blood in its veins. We are not little girls playing dress up. But that is how a ton of nice people see us; we exist but we are spiritually empty, lacking potency. And the stories reflect that. That energy, that core belief that we are the juvenile, non-generative form of love and relationships. And this woman too, she remains in a kind of eternal spiritual death.

That's why people are mentioning the Hayes Code, they're feeling how that aligns with larger cultural prejudice against us and our humanity and capacity to have the kind of power of living and loving that is ascribed to mf love and that more (though not always, misogyny is a hell of a thing) straight women get in stories.

The idea that it's GOOD for a story to do this, because "sometimes sisterhood is a lie" and "sometimes people don't change" ignores that context of who precisely this narrative "subversion," this spiritual aridity is given to. And who gets to live and grow and be reborn and strive and learn and become in stories, to be allowed to connect with the transformative potential inside themselves and each other.

The show did give us a lot -- I think it's important to recognize that. The canon ff love; I would have never expected that. The canon kiss. They put a lot into that and I honor that. This wasn't a classic "bury your gays" and I'm not mad at them. They did their best. A lot of the issues I have are probably due to the problems of the mcu overall and how static it is. But the deeper themes are also just incredibly disappointing to me, and I wanted to outline why.

It's entirely possible to be disappointed but appreciate context and not be unkind to creatives who did their best within overall industry/cultural limitations, which is where I am at and what I mean with this.

#agatha all along #agatha all along spoilers

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pharawee · 1 year ago

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Back in May I bought Khemjira's Rescue on meb, happy that there finally was an official English translation because I love horror and actually liked the first pilot teaser for Spirit Reborn - even though it wasn't well received.

I now know why the teaser wasn't well received (the official version has since been deleted and there's only some re-uploads left) and I agree. Khemjira isn't really a classic QL where the story centres around two people falling in love. It's a horror novel first (and the novel's content warning is very open about this). Much of the romance only happens in the bonus chapters. It's also steeped in Isan folklore and Theravadin Buddhist teachings and virtues, with heavy and uncompromising themes of karma, rebirth, right action and non-attachment (which I really appreciate but might not be everyone's cup of tea because it completely ignores concepts of justice and revenge).

The novel itself is translated really well with only a few editorial slip-ups but tons of footnotes to explain potentially unfamiliar concepts and give translations for the recited khatha. The bonus chapters are plentiful and rewarding if you're into romance and the usual level of BL novel spiciness, but even without them the narrative flows really well and comes to a satisfying conclusion. I really liked the novel - it might be my favourite right after I Feel You Linger in the Air - so I was slightly apprehensive when Mandee announced that they had acquired the rights for a new adaptation.

I don't know the actors at all so I only have the novel to go by, but all in all I'm really happy with Mandee's pilot teaser. It's so close to the novel that even seemingly short filler scenes are recognisably taken from moments in the story. And while I still think Keng Harit is a bit too young as Por Kru Parun, he manages to capture his commanding and alluring presence very well.

My only worry now is that they'll downplay the religious themes in order to elevate the romance between, well, basically everyone. I couldn't even blame them though, because most of the audience will be expecting romance, and the series probably wouldn't be very well received if both couples remained chaste until the very end. I don't think Khemjira's Rescue even qualifies as slow-burn for reasons I'll explain a bit later (and behind a spoiler warning).

But first, a bit more about the main characters because I've seen some confusion about their names etc. I'll keep these as spoiler-free as Mandee's pilot teaser was so if you've watched that then you're all set.

Khemjira is cursed, as are all male descendants of his family, doomed to die before their 20th birthday (the series changes it to 21). His mother gave him a traditionally female name to confuse the curse but to no avail: as he grows older he's more and more troubled by the heavy and malevolent presence of spirits. These are kept at bay by an amulet given to to him by a venerable Por Kru (a practicioner of Buddhist white magic) but when that's no longer enough, his friend Jhet introduces him to his teacher Por Kru Parun who lives in a small Isan village. Despite the burden of bad karma, Khem is a good person who always tries his best even when he feels like giving up.

Por Kru Parun (the series calls him Karan) is a respected practicioner of Buddhist white magic. He lives in a traditional wooden house outside of a small Isan village and protects his community from spiritual harm. He learned from his grandfather (who was himself a respected Por Kru) and also spent many years ordained as a monk. Because he lives by the precepts (which go beyond the five precepts of laypeople) he seems detached and aloof, often wearing dark sunglasses so others won't get charmed by him. His real (nick)name is Peem but he only starts using it with Khem once the two get romantically involved.

Jhettana and Charnvit (aka Jhet and Charn) are Khem's best friends. Khem meets Jhet during freshman orientation when Jhet senses the malevolent spirits around him. It's also Jhet who suggests visiting his teacher Por Kru Parun in his home province. They do this during a university excursion. This is how they meet Charn who's part of the student trip and very suspicious about what they're doing. Charn is extremely polite, addressing everyone as Khun. He wears glasses to aid his bad vision. Both Jhet and Charn are extremely protective of Khem, choosing to become Parun's students in order to help save him. They're also the secondary couple with a surprising past connection.

These two boys are Thong and Ake, Parun's spirit servants. They're the ghosts of 12-year-old twins that already served Parun's grandfather. They also have a surprising role to play in things to come.

SOME SPOILERS FOR THE MIDDLE OF THE NOVEL

As for why the romance can only happen after Khemjira's curse has been lifted: as practitioners of white magic, Parun and his students Jhet and Charn have to adhere to the precepts. These include abstinence from unchastity, so they should remain non-attached to thoughts of sexual and romantic nature. If one of these precepts is broken, all of them are considered broken (which makes it impossible to practice white magic) - Khemjira's rescue would fail if any of them got involved romantically. Parun knows that he's mindful enough to remain non-attached until the curse has been dealt with. He also knows that he can't expect the same of Khem so he refuses to take him as his student (which is fortunate because that way we get to read about Khem's pining).

And beyond the horror and the romance, there's also a third element that heavily features in the story: rebirth. All of the characters' fates are interwoven through several past lives, and I'm really curious how Mandee will decide to tackle this added layer of complexity and identity. In The Sign, Idolfactory used the same actors througout every past life (while 1000 Years Old used different actors with the same identifying birth mark). In Khemjira's Rescue the past identities of some of the characters are incredibly important and I'd hate to see them getting erased by using the same actors to better fit with BL marketing. It was so rewarding to find out that Jhet and Charn were starcrossed lesbian lovers in a past life and I'd love it if they kept that reveal for the series as well.

Oh, and also? Yes, there's going to be at least one naga. 🙌

END OF SPOILERS

Ultimately, if Mandee truly commits to playing the long game and doesn't simplify the story in order to appeal to marketing opportunities, this could end up being one of the best Thai BL series to come. From what I saw, the actors can definitely pull it off, and the fact that the 11 minute long trailer focuses so much on novel-accuracy is very promising already. Just don't have Parun and Khem get it on too early. Sometimes you have to keep it in your pants for a bit in order to save the day. 🙏

#khemjira #khemjira the series #khemjira's rescue #keng harit #namping napatsakorn #thai bl novels #jane watches stuff #if you loved the ifylita novel and aren't fazed by horror you'll love this too #some of the themes are quite heavy though #(probably not as much if you're familiar with buddhist teachings)

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absolutebl · 2 years ago

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This Week in BL - Bit Slow Round These Parts

Organized, in each category, by ones I'm enjoying most at the top.

Dec 2023 Wk 4

Ongoing Series - Thai

Last Twilight (Fri YT) ep 8 of 12 - Mhok is about the most indulgent boyfriend on the planet. Why they dressed as 1930s gangsters for the wedding? I have no idea idea, but it’s adorable. IFYLITA mark 2? And they’re even dancing together using bits of the same steps that were used that show too. Cute nod.

The Sign (Sat YT) ep 6 of 10 - Everything but the kitchen sink includes lesbians apparently. Excellent. Carry on. Also a lot of filler about the sides. (Boring, stop that.) I wish the doctor were a little bit more of a multifaceted character (and less evil snakey), and that we had some of his backstory + Tharn. If we saw them as kids, having a longer true friendship, it would make Tharn’s attitude a little bit more sympathetic and forgiving.

For Him (Thurs iQIYI) ep 5 of 10 - I like this show, but it’s awfully one-sided in the romance arena. I mean shouldn’t they be trying to support and make each other happy? Why does it always have to come from Him? Also, I’m constantly worried about the fact that Nail doesn’t eat any vegetables. His digestive track must be in serious distress. And if the boy is a bottom?! Look I have concerns is all I'm saying, I hope he's getting his fiber along with the dk. Meanwhile... Mom confrontation! Always fun.

Twins the series (Fri GaGa) ep 9 of 10 - Now I’m having a hard time keeping the twins straight. Who’s getting beat up for whom, what’s going on? No matter who, First caught himself a live one. I like those bits.

Pit Babe (Fri iQIYI) ep 7 of 14 - I got little crumbs of my sides but not enough, and then they dropped the mpreg bomb. Kinda like blowing the BL diaper. Trash watch happening here.

Cooking Crush (Sun YT) ep 5 of 12 - They are so cute. And mostly such good communicators. Except evil dad is evil! I didn’t have OffGun tango on my bingo card, but I'm happy to check it off. After making everyone sing, GMMTV is now making everyone dance. I much prefer it. Kiss came a bit out of nowhere. But it was sweet.

A few minutes later...

Bake Me Please (Mon Gaga) ep 6fin - I don’t know, I feel like this just wasn’t good enough for the class of talent involved. Which means it’s mostly the story and script's fault. In the end I kinda just wanted Guy to get the guy.

In cluclusion:

A lack-luster story about a group of bakers coping with (mostly) a shoddy script that could not be saved by either the beauty nor the talent of the actors involved. It suffered for lack of narrative backbone and so did I. 6/10

Middleman’s Love (Fri YT & iQIYI ep 8fin - Mai is an adorable clingy boyfriend, and that bit was kind of cute.

Summation:

Office clown, Jade, a manic pixie dream dork, is courted by the new intern, Mai. This show is right in my wheelhouse but it fell flat for me. I wish it had lived up to the concept behind the title (if nothing else). If we had done more of Jade‘s family and the reasons behind his self-worth struggles and self-acceptance issues, they might have been easier to bare. Without backstory, the show had no through line. In the end, Jade was a largely intolerable character, and Mai felt flat and lacking in personality. I was disappointed with this show, and I hope they don't blame the pair for the poor ratings. 6/10

My Universe (Sun iQIYI) 1626 ep 19 of 24 - Meh. So dull.

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

VIP Only (Taiwan Fri Gaga) ep 7 of 10 - I’m not really interested in the late addition love triangle concept.

Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun (Japan Fri Gaga) ep 4 of 8 - a bit too frenetic and manic for me, this one. Glasses boy is best boy. But I’m kind of confused as to was actually going on with this show. Including whether I like it or not.

I Became the Main Role of a BL (Japan Sun Gaga) ep 1-3 - AKA BL Drama no Shuen ni Narimashita: Crank Up Hen - it should finish airing at the very beginning of the year, so I decided to wait and watch all 3 back-to-back.

It's Airing But...

Playboyy (Thurs Gaga) 14 eps - Dear Playboyy, it's not you, it’s me… I hate you. You’re about as deep (and as palatable) as a shot glass of cum. While I'm sure you’re someone’s kink, you're my weakest link. Goodbye. I DNFed this at ep 5. Frankly I'm impressed with myself for getting that far.

Night Dream (Sat YT) 6 eps - It’s a pain to track down and I really didn’t like the first episode so… DNF

The Whisperer (Sun ????) 10 eps - Thai horror BL that ALSO involves cheating (what joy is mine). I don't think even the perfect single dimple can motivate me to watch. Word is... it's terrible.

7 Days Before Valentine (Weds WeTV) 10 eps - Giving me Luminous Solution vibes. I'm waiting to binge if safe.

Dead Friend Forever (Thai Sat iQIYI) - horror, meh, tell me if it's worth my time?

It's done and I didn't, or we can't

Beyond The Star (Weds iQIYI) 8 eps - House of Stars meets Boyband. I was NOT impressed with ep 1. Been told I shouldn't bother. So I won't.

Behind the Shadows (Korea movie) - This is a historical I was interested in, but I've been told they kill the gay so I'm OUT.

[INTERNATIONAL] Cherry Magic (Sat YouTube) ep 3 of 12 - yeah Japan put the smack down on our boys. Sadness. You can use a VPN if you like. Read all about it here.

What Did You Eat Yesterday Season 2 AKA Kinou Nani Tabeta? Season 2 (Japan Gaga) 10 eps - will binge when I have a spare day.

Crazy work load right now so no idea when that will be. (End of year is a bear for me.)

Honestly I'm gonna have an epic number of dnf's this year for me.

Next Week Looks Like This

Original 2023 forthcoming BL master post (see comments, some are inaccurate, NOT KEPT UPDATED). With the end of the year upon us I'll do an "announced for 2023 but never happened list" soon.

Also my best ofs are coming.

Don't think I'll do a stats round up this year, everything progressing as before.

THIS WEEK’S BEST MOMENTS

(Last week) - sorry, forgot to link it.

It's 2024 people! Round ups are coming!!!! Leave a comment or an ask, if you have something specific you want addressed.

#Last Twilight #this week in bl #bl updates #the sign the series #Thai BL #for him the series #cooking crush the series #twins the series #Bake me please review #BL series review #Middleman's Love review #taiwanese bl #japanese bl #vietnamese bl #cooking crush #PitBabe

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delta-lethonomia · 8 months ago

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ok depresso week is over, back to deliberate hyperfixation on bg3:

It is absolutely wild to me that people take Astarion to the foursome with the drow twins (romanced, spawn, post-cazador) and are shocked, shocked I tell you, that he has a bad time. But it leads me to think that there's an interesting conversation to be had here about morality applied to video games. I'm going to be using what's a bit of a strawman tbh, what I would consider an archetypical, "good person" gamer for this niche example.

(3k essay under the cut about irl morals vs video game behavior, my take on why Astarion agrees to the orgy, beating the dead horse of Astarion discourse now that the fandom has cooled off enough I might not get flogged for it, and all my election stress being translated into an increasingly bitchy narrative voice that I hope is at least mildly amusing.)

"Good Person Gamer" romances Astarion. They're probably female, which I am mentioning exclusively so I can turn that into "Good Girl Gamer" 😏, or G3. G3 picks nice dialogue options. G3 tries to support their companions, and finds diplomatic and moral solutions to problems. G3 saved the tieflings. G3 still romances Astarion because he's hot, and vulnerable, and it's not like he forces you to be evil - he just complains a bit when you save kittens stuck in trees, but you get that approval back anyway just by being nice to him. Talk him out of Ascension and you've proven to yourself he's got a good soul under all that attitude anyway. He'd healed! You banged on his grave! It's all good now!

The brothel is fun. The drow twins are hot. It's always fun when games lets you do spicy things like have threesomes and orgies! We're sex-positive! Look, the drow twins said they love their job! It's totally fine! G3, as most people, probably does not do these things in real life, but that's the fun in video games: you get to be someone you're not.

And then Astarion noticeably dissociates. He throws himself in the center and lavishes everyone with attention; he's a professional, you know. Even an unromanced Tav/Durge notices something's off, and Astarion replies something along the lines of "you don't have the right to look at me like that," presumably with worry, distress, or sympathy.

G3 is upset. They did everything right - they didn't want to hurt him, and Astarion himself said he wanted this. Why couldn't they stop midway through and remind him that he doesn't have to hurt himself? Why couldn't they talk about it afterwards, and clear the air? LARIAN WHY DO YOU HURT ME

Now, to all the G3's out there: if you were dating a person with extensive sexual trauma, having been raped literally thousands of times, would you suggest having a threesome/orgy? With prostitutes, if that's better or worse? Putting them on the spot before your mutual friends? Would you wait a few years to mention the idea, or would you do so only weeks/months into a relationship? Your first "I love you" might have only been yesterday.

And most people, I think, would say "No." Writing that scenario outside of the lens of a video game makes it sound insane - of course you wouldn't! I'm not saying that they should never have group sex or that it can't be done, but I think most people instinctively get how that would be a shitty thing to do in that context, especially without discussing it in depth beforehand and making sure you're both on the same page.

And this is the meat of the issue. Most gamers play good-aligned characters: there's a strong culture of wanting to play the hero and saving the day. But tied into that cultural monomyth, in society itself, is the idea that sex is a reward at the end. You get sex at the end of the romance arc. The date where you have sex is one of many milestones, and you're not really dating if you haven't done it yet. Some people don't have sex until their wedding night. Threesome scenes especially are a video game classic: old-school God of War, for instance, had a hidden room in every game with scantily-clad women just waiting for you to button-mash away, a little treat for the player's keen puzzle-solving abilities.

Not all romances in BG3 have sex or end with sex, (some even start with sex), but that is because BG3's character writing tries to ground itself in reality despite being a medium people utilize for fantasy. Role-playing a "good" character is mostly easy: you typically know which dialogue choice is the ethical choice, can chide Astarion for being racist, can save the numerous children with moral ease - and BG3 rewards this: a good playthrough is more fleshed out, because you haven't killed off half the cast. You get better gear. You have more allies, better allies. You know what to do.

Or, well, mostly. BG3 is kind of special imo because even the good choices have a lot of nuance, where two people can make different choices but still feel like they both picked the most ethical one. Take Shadowheart's parents, for example: they beg for her to let them go so they can die and save their daughter. Saving them leaves Shadowheart in Shar's clutches - she will experience pain for the rest of her life, but regains her parents, and with luck, Selûne will claim her soul when she dies. Kill them, and Shadowheart is free - truly free, to live her life on her own terms, free from Shar and Selûne both. Both can be the ethical choice, depending on your morals.

"But if Astarion didn't want to have the threesome, the game should have let me stop midway through/made it clearer that this would happen. He said no before Cazador - why couldn't he say no again? Why would Larian put me in this position and make me feel bad when I thought everything was alright? I wanted to be good and have fun, not feel like I pressured my boyfriend." - Strawman G3.

Because BG3 treats it's characters like people. Multiple companions make choices outside of what the player character decides for them - Shadowheart's decision to save or kill her parents, kill or save the Nightsong, or Gale, to go for the crown or not depend on what events they are there to witness personally, or can be informed by conversations you have in camp about unrelated issues. You can fully let them make their own decisions and be surprised each time as they develop into different people with each successive playthrough. A lot of people are surprised when Gale goes for the Crown of Karsus without their input. In my last multiplayer playthrough, we could not prevent Shadowheart from wanting to kill the Nightsong, and so we were forced to kill her.

Astarion is not like that. The way he talks about Ascension changes depending on your relationship. If you're merely friends, he acknowledges it's probably a bad idea, even, in direct contrast to the somewhat obsessive and frightening way he pursues it in a romantic relationship. But Astarion can't decide what to do at the end: he has no hidden point system, no hidden flags - he will always pursue Ascension even if he knows it's a bad idea, because Astarion does not trust himself, has no experience trusting himself, and needs help. As counter-intuitive as it may sound, he needs support to make his own decisions, because in that moment, he cannot be objective.

(If Astarion is ever objective is another story....)

So much of Astarion's reactions and opinions are instinctive and unthinking. "Don't let the pixie out of the lantern, are you an idiot?" -> "A pixie! And honest-to-goodness pixie! *giggles*"

"We don't need a urchin hanging around." -> Astarion approves if you help Yenna

etc. etc. etc. There's so many times he says one thing, the cruel thing, the "fuck everyone else, I've got mine"-thing, and then approves when you do the good thing. Astarion does not live in line with his values (besides pursuing a growing need for freedom) and he frankly does not really know what his values even are.

Astarion doesn't react with glee to finding all the people he seduced - who inadvertently raped him, though they didn't know, some lowlifes and scoundrels and people having a bad day and even some sweet, naive virgins like Sebastian, who took that smoking hot Elf on his word and followed him home, probably in disbelief someone so gorgeous would pay them any attention at all - tortured and locked in a dungeon underground. He's crushed by guilt. He's in pain. Astarion delights in you causing others pain (the torture scene) because it aligns with his worldview, the joy of seeing someone else suffer for once. But he's not a cold-hearted murderer. (And yes, I am differentiating between "adventurer kills a bandit" murder and "deliberately killing someone you know for reasons/no reason" murder.) He doesn't hurt anyone in camp - Shadowheart and Lae'zel are far more dangerous than him. You never have to stop him from drinking anyone else to death. Even if you never feed him again, never use his bite attack, he never bites anyone in camp. Despite being a vampire, Astarion is, effectively, harmless. (Bite night was about checking whether or not Cazador's old command's still worked. It's his first real attempt at freedom, proving to himself that he's free from compulsion. Hence why the roll to get him to stop is a 5, giving you a 75% likelihood of succeeding. He doesn't actually want to kill you. And you get two chances!!!)

Astarion doesn't enjoy death for the sake of death. He's terrified if you side with the goblins and kill the tieflings despite goading you into doing it. I don't doubt that he could hurt others (god knows he's got enough feelings to work out that way), but there's a significant difference between a little knife play and condemning thousands of people to be tortured in the Hells for all eternity. Sacrificing his siblings is different, because they, like him, are guilty, and deserve their deaths. He agrees to sacrifice his fellow spawn as an act of self hatred, of self harm. But all those other people stupid enough to want to sleep with him? Given a day to think about it, I think Astarion would agree that that's not right - and that's why he thanks you for preventing his Ascension. That much murder isn't him. He can be thoughtless, cruel, and unkind, but Astarion isn't a psychopath.

Take him to the brothel, and slipping back into that role, the seductive rake, it as easy as breathing. I don't think Astarion has ever thought about if he's the type of person to enjoy group sex, or even if he wants it. I don't doubt that Astarion enjoys sex, that he wants to have sex (he is, after all that, still shockingly horny), but he's just discovered the idea of having sex with someone he loves. He's riding that high. Of course he says yes: not only is he a different man now (he's free!), it's something he's done a thousand times already - maybe it'll be different this time, maybe something has changed - or maybe, an orgy was on offer, so of course Astarion is there. It's his purpose. He's been doing it for 200 years. Where else would he be?

What I'm saying is that Astarion didn't think about what sleeping with the drow twins meant for your relationship, or how he would feel about it at all. He just went for it. He had a bad time. You then don't discuss it because that would mean admitting that he finally made a choice by himself and it backfired. He didn't think, or maybe he did, and it turns out he just doesn't know himself. Why discuss it? A relationship with G3 apparently means group sex. They probably asked twice. They backtracked all the way to Wyrm's Crossing post-Cazador. Will they ask again? How many times can he say no?

In reality, in the real world, the act of asking can be the problem in and of itself. If your significant other/spouse/lover asks you to do something you don't want to do, be it a threesome, anal, opening the relationship etc, these actions have consequences. The act of asking doesn't happen in a vacuum like it does in video games: there is a cost associated with it, a gamble, and while it may pay off, it may not. Some people get worn down and agree to things they don't want to do. Sometimes you break up because the act of asking is so inherently disrespectful you can't reconcile your differing wants and needs. If you're dating someone who has experienced the gut-wrenching pain of being cheated on, you don't ask 2 months into a new relationship if you can fuck other people. This should not come as a surprise to you, to G3, to anyone. It's common sense.

BG3 giving you the opportunity for a foursome with Astarion not only to give the player their hot'n'spicy sex scene (then playfully bops you on the nose by making it a fade-to-black, you naughty little perverts, you), but also to continue its theme of treating the player like a mature adult, who is dealing with other mature adults, and who can and should live with the consequences of their own actions. Subsequent patches have watered this down, I admit, but I do believe that that was the ethos guiding their work from the beginning. BG3 wants you to interact with the characters like people. If you roll over and tell them what they want to hear, you will Ascend Astarion, and he'll enslave you in turn. If you agree with Gale on everything, he will kill himself and you - or, he'll become a god, becoming the exact sort of god he used to rail against. Agree with Karlach, and she will rather die than go back to the Hells. You get my point.

"But Larian could have let me check in on Astarion midway through. Maybe it was a mistake to ask, but they should have let me check on him and stop it all if he wanted. I was trying to trust him to make his own decisions." - Strawman G3

Ok. We add a dialogue option. "Astarion, love, are you alright? We can stop at any time if you want."

Astarion disapproves (-5)

He's not backing out. Thank you for asking, darling, but fuck off. (I don't think he'd actually say fuck off but the implicit message would be there. I can't see Astarion stopping midway through, nor appreciating you doubting him. Nothing changes.)

"But I still feel bad." - Strawman G3

And I completely understand that. It's a video game. Don't worry! Of course you should get your sex scene - it's a reward! You got their approval high enough! You have enough charisma points! In DA:O, you can also have an orgy, unlocked by giving your companions enough gifts! It's a game! You have enough points, you get the thing!!! You killed Cazador - you win! Have your cake and eat it too! Congrats, you unlocked your hot slutty vampire elf who's basically a trained courtesan, who needs you to be his moral compass, who will never leave you so long as you don't actively rape him - enjoy all the fun orgies in your future!

Your actual choice - the choice the game gives you - is to realize that taking what's essentially a human trafficking victim to a brothel is a dumb idea, but they didn't want to punish you for it.

"Well, Astarion should have said something then. He said no before, he can say no again." - Strawman G3

If you go through life pushing peoples boundaries and expect them to verbally tell you what you're doing wrong, you're gonna be friendless and have a bad time. This ties back to both Astarion having difficulty knowing and defending his own values, BG3 trying to let you make your own decisions without setting out a clear "good or bad" path on occasion, and the hope that you'd use your own morals to make decisions. G3 would never behave in this way irl, and that's where the shock comes from, the guilt from committing an action they thought was without consequence in a risk-free fantasy scenario, and then feeling unpleasantly surprised when called out.

But it's a video game, and you didn't get the little zap, the little sting of an Astarion disapproves in the corner that told you you made the wrong choice. In fact, because he doesn't disapprove, it's not actually the wrong choice!

It really was mean how the Narrator made G3 feel bad, wasn't it. They didn't mean to hurt him. Astarion doesn't mention it, so it's probably fine.

... have you talked to Halsin yet? Surely he had a good time. Right?

CONCLUSION

People think they're good and moral and will typically behave "heroically" in video games. Games support this and reward players for doing so. The "good path" is expected to be clear. However, video games are not real life no matter how much they play at immersion, and multiple games have trained players in a linear "do x, receive y" type fashion. Sex is a reward in games, and is treated that way in real life as well, so players expect the Sharess' orgy scene to be a reward, and are then shocked when Astarion/Gale/Halsin etc reveal during or afterwards that they had a bad time. This is because Larian wants you to treat BG3 like a role playing game and interact with it seriously, and isn't afraid to boop you for your actions in ways that mimic real life relationships. This ethical dissonance makes people uncomfortable especially when they play games to role-play as someone better than themselves, and are surprised when they aren't herded down predetermined "good" paths via instantaneous approval/disapproval mechanics or unlockable "ideal" dialogue.

It is absolutely possible that someday Astarion might be into meaningless group sex with prostitutes for fun and pleasure. However, that is the sort of thing you'd probably either wait for him to bring up by himself organically, or discuss in a long-term trusting relationship after he's had potentially years to process the idea of not immediately hopping into bed with someone, as well as disentangling his instinctive "beaten-in" sexually available behavior from his actual desires. People much more emotionally mature and undamaged than Astarion have destroyed their own relationships by inadvertently pushing a partner (or themselves) into various forms of group sex or other sexual acts. It's not something you do on a random Tuesday on a whim.

Or maybe it is, and I'm just chronically boring and surrounded by boring people lmao

TO THE POSTER THAT INSPIRED THIS: I'm so so sorry if you ever see this, not trying to call you out at all hence no linking, I just wanted to pick apart why I think you felt that way. The thoughts just finally bubbled over after a year+ lol

#I deliberately waited for discourse to calm down before writing any Astarion essays so be nice pls #I don’t like fighting people on the internet #delta.txt #Astarion #bg3 astarion

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