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lyculuscaelus · 29 days

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How easy it was to blame all these misadventures the Achaeans suffered upon their homecoming on a man in revenge for his son.

Yes, we know what Palamedes did, and we know that he deserved it. We know that the disaster near Cape Caphereus did happen, and Nauplius was the one behind this. But we have not learned of anything else about the other part of Nauplius’s revenge from any sources earlier than pseudo-Apollodorus’s Epitome (and we know that the entire chapter 6 of Epitome is very likely tampered by Tzetzes already). Since, to be fair, Homer wasn’t the only one who neglected all this resettlement of Achaean heroes.

There was no mention of the name “Nauplius” in Proclus’s summary of the epic Nostoi, and the only chance for him to show up is in “the description of the storm around the Capherian rocks”. We know that Nauplius would make an appearance in the Nostoi through, again, pseudo-Apollodorus. But nothing more. The corruption of Argive wives did not happen in the Epic Cycle, and both the Nostoi and the Odyssey did not elaborate on any exile of any Achaean leader especially Diomedes.

And Aegialeia was still a steadfast wife of Diomedes in Homer’s epics. And Clytemnestra could still find her justice in her lament for Iphigeneia in Aeschylus’s and Euripides’s plays. Any role Nauplius could play in this would be redundant—prudent Aegialeia simply wouldn’t comply, and Clytemnestra wouldn’t need him to convince her.

So, why the attribution then? A likely explanation would be the attempt to connect the hero with those foundation myths in places outside the Mainland Greece like Magna Graecia. And what better way to get the hero there than exile? And what better way to exile a hero than the betrayal of their wife if they had one? (Well there are better ways but you know what I mean) The thing is, why did it have to be Nauplius? I mean, the tragedy at Cape Caphereus was infamous indeed. I could totally see people blaming Nauplius the Wrecker for more things than simply lighting a false beacon and throwing rocks. So now we have our avenger Nauplius traveling around Greece contriving the corruption of Argive wives and causing shipwreck for the returned fleet and in some versions even bringing false news to Anticleia which led to her suicide (again, not the version in the Odyssey)…Nauplius just seemed to be such a convenient device to connect these events.

But does that have to be the only case for their nostoi? I mean, Homer certainly did not include anything about this exile in his epics, and we could totally have our Nauplius simply causing shipwreck, without messing up with other heroes’ families. Is it tragic? Certainly. But in the meantime, it is cathartic. Heroes like Diomedes, Idomeneus, Philoctetes still get to stay in their homeland, even if it’s just in a few versions—one of them being Homer’s version.

#Yes how do you know I have a problem with Epitome’s account of the nostoi #It just feels like it has taken something away from the very story I enjoy #Idk. Might rant abt it some other time #Still I know that there’re people who enjoy this version of the nostoi and I’m certainly not dissing them and you can still love them #Especially Diomedes’s Italian wanderings (in this case—including me) which could be a lot easier for it to happen with Aegialeia’s betrayal #But ykw…something in book 5 of the Iliad and book 4 of the Odyssey changed my mind and now I stan DioLia with no regret #tagamemnon #greek mythology #the odyssey #the iliad #homer’s odyssey #posthomerica #diomedes #nauplius #the epic cycle #aeschylus #euripides #trojan war #Lyculī sermōnēs

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ponytailzuko · 7 months

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writing down my overall thoughts on the live action

first of all, i walked into my step dad watching it of his own free will - and then me and my entire family sat down to watch it. both my step dad and mom had never seen the cartoon in their life, so this was a first time viewing for them. they enjoyed it. my mom even asked where season 2 was. so i think the live action served its main purpose - get new people who haven't watched or wouldn't have watched the cartoon into the franchise. they did it! yippee.

anyways, my own thoughts have an inherent bias due to having seen and loved the cartoon. i believe my parents when they say that from their perspective, it holds up on its own. obviously, i don't think it was ever going to be better than the cartoon, but wanted to write my opinions what i liked, changes i enjoyed and changes i didn't, etc.

putting it under a read more because this sucker is long:

i don't know anything about film making - set design, props, fashion, cgi, etc. nothing particularly stood out to me in a way that ruined the show, and i only really pay attention to it when it serves the story. so i'm just not going to comment on it for the most part. most of this is about writing choices i liked or disliked. anyways here we go.

the good:

aang was a highlight for me. i know some people have problems with moving his backstory to the very beginning of the story, but i liked it. it immediately made me get in aang's shoes and feel his connection with his people, his home, and gyatso - and made it very easy to connect with his grief when he woke up from the iceberg. live action really emphasizes the last airbender part of the title throughout, and how aang feels isolated in his duty as the avatar, as the last airbender preserving his culture, and by being from another world - lost in time.

i liked how he sought out his past lives so often. really makes him feel like a child who doesn't know what he's doing and had the rug pulled out from under him by losing gyatso too soon. he's looking for adult guidance, and kyoshi, roku, and kuruk are all there telling aang THEIR version of how to be the avatar. feels like good set up for later when aang gets to define HIS version of the avatar, and how he wants to bring peace to the world. we already see it with their versions of the avatar feeding into aang's feelings of guilt and self-isolation - that he needs to do things on his own. it gets concluded with katara and sokka declaring him family, and they won't leave no matter what.

in that nature: adding more emphasis on katara's grief as well, since it was APPARENTLY not enough for people watching the cartoon and called her whiny for mentioning it. in general, it feels weird that katara's flashback to her backstory happened in season 3 of the cartoon when there was a whole episode dedicated to aang and zuko's backstory all the way in season 1, another one for zuko's backstory in season 2, and then bato of the water tribe elaborated on sokka being left by hakoda. glad to get katara backstory earlier. love you katara <3

and from that: sokka and katara's conflict being about if she should waterbend. feels very natural and something they would fight over. it is a vital aspect to their culture, but also if word gets out there is a waterbender in the village, there could be another raid.

aang stealing zuko's notebook is another highlight. it is both such a petty kid thing to steal and be upset about someone reading your diary, but also it actually serves a purpose in giving aang a guide for his avatar journey. the show sacrificed paralleling aang and zuko's backstories like the storm, but they still intertwine aang and zuko's story through this notebook and the connection aang makes with zuko through it. very sweet.

in that note: the set design adding little things such as those little statues in zuko's room. feels like it really was lived in by someone obsessed with finding the avatar for 3 years. i really liked details like that they put throughout the show

suki extrapolation with her mother and her conflict of being duty-bound to her village but wanting to see the world, and how this relates to sokka. made me genuinely invested in their relationship in a way i wasn't from the cartoon. i also loved the actress' portrayal of suki, she's so awkward and i love it. need to see more of her.

iroh in season 1 of the cartoon feels less like his own fleshed out character and more of a comedic relief expansion of zuko's b plot. he's made to make zuko's slice of the show more fit for a fun kids show by giving him someone to talk to and be funny with. he's a fun tea-loving uncle, but it's hard to parse what he really feels until later. live action iroh keeps that fun tea-loving aspect, but he has his own baggage and its GREAT. i think i genuinely enjoyed live action iroh more than the cartoon. he has so much more growing to do. could talk about this version of iroh (and his relationship with zuko) forever. i need season 2 just for him.

iroh and aang's prison arc together.

making zuko's crew have issues with him earlier and making them 41st division was nice. i really liked that change.

secret tunnel with familial love between katara and sokka was so cute. enjoyed it.

the ???:

azula and ozai's addition is a 50/50 to me. i think the sick power plays ozai is doing between his two children are genuinely interesting. the change in how ozai doles out praise and the dynamics between azula and zuko is also interesting and i enjoyed it. but i also find their screen time unnecessary. could be used to further the dynamic between the main protagonists, or they could be saved for season 2 or 3. did like how azula used zhao to thwart zuko and it fucked zuko up immensely in the head. very nice. also not sure how i feel about azula being good at archery, feels like getting good at a nonbending discipline isn't something that meshes well with her character for me, but that's a nitpick.

combining plotlines such as jet and the mechanist in omashu + the change with bumi was... fine? it served its purpose. liked some aspects and didn't like others.

the spirit world stuff was really cool and i enjoyed how koh preys on people lost in the fog. very interesting concepts that got us to be able to experience katara and sokka's backstory first hand. felt immersive to me. but also wtf, wan shi tong? katara and sokka being gone from the plot for so long? come backkkkkk! COME BACK! DO WE HAVE TIME FOR YOU TO BE IN SPIRIT JAIL WHEN I HAVEN"T SEEN YOU GUYS INTERACT ENOUGH? i did like yue being in the spirit world and interacting with sokka. that was cute as hell.

northern water tribe and yuekka had parts i liked and parts i didn't. they kept the sexism and arranged marriage but also yue opted out? feels detrimental to yue and sokka's relationship and how they connect to each other out of their sense of duty. did really like hahn being nice, it would have been really interesting to see how yue felt stifled with an arranged marriage even if hahn was perfect. also liked yue being able to waterbend and the little scene with yue and sokka making dessert, so cute. yue freezing sokka to the ground before sacrificing herself.... didn't like that. wish they let sokka let her go, understanding it was her choice.

katara in the nwt as well. katara fighting master pakku and losing, but everyone watching thought she was SO COOL. loved the guy asking how she did the ice disks and she has to teach him. but confused on the fact that pakku doesn't take her as a student, and we don't see her being taught but people still refer to her as a master. i'm going to assume she learned waterbending by learning from her fanclub and also teaching them her moves.

why did they almost kill momo?

the bad:

everyone and their mother has said the exposition is bad so i won't hammer it home too much. this isn't actually much of a problem for me because it was actually necessary to get the point home to my mom who was watching it for the first time. i was also told that screen test audiences asked for the exposition to be added in the first episode after production, so i don't have much to say there.

aang's decision to leave home not being running away but due to the fact that he was stepping out to get a breather. this felt like a weird change to me, since the rest of the show hammers in about aang running away from his problems and his duties in a way the cartoon doesn't. would have felt WAY more heartwrenching to see the temples under attack while aang runs away from being the avatar and it would have hit harder when gyatso tells aang to let go of that guilt and pain... that it wasn't his fault. it was harder to feel the root of aang's guilt when i know that he didn't even plan to leave for very long. alas!

continuing from that point about aang's attribute of 'running away': lack of episodic plotlines. everyone and their mother has also hammered home about the lack of them from cartoon. i don't actually hate the change, but i do think it does some disservice to aang's character that they didn't adjust for. i'm being told that aang runs away, but i haven't been shown aang doing so. i've been seeing aang do his duty as the avatar and research it every episode. give me a reason to believe why this is a character flaw that aang needs to face.

similarly, i think this does a detriment to katara's role in book 1. since aang is more focused on what he needs to do as the avatar, katara becomes more his partner in finding out more about what it means to be the avatar instead of pushing him to be more motivated into doing so. (ex: 'we need to continue on our journey and not stay on kyoshi island' or 'we need to help haru in this village')

aang, katara, and sokka get separate plotlines so much that they don't feel like a solid dynamic. again, detriment of the lack of the smaller episodic plots. does make more sense that katara says aang is family at the end of season 1 instead of the beginning for this reason, though.

katara feels like one of the weakest aspects of the show to me. katara doesn't get the narration. katara isn't the first thing when aang gets out of the ice. and katara's rage just feels lost. i think a simple script or direction change in ep 1-2 to make katara's actress play her with more of that rage during her arguments with sokka would've worked wonders. katara has this feeling of anger at injustice that motivates her throughout the cartoon and i don't feel it here. also miss some of her sass - katara should've hit aang in the head with an acorn.

sokka's weird engineer arc? he's a warrior. why are you saying it's okay to not be a warrior when he is - what is up with setting up sokka as a disappointment to hakoda? HELLO? DOES ANYONE HEAR ME? i'm confused where they're going with this, please tell me that sokka has misinterpreted and created that memory due to insecurity. this is where my bias is totally coming in. this worked fine for my parents who hadn't ever seen it. BUT WHERE ARE THEY HEADING WITH THIS?

kinda wish information about zuko's situation was dropped more subtly throughout instead of zuko being like "my father banished me and i need the avatar to get back" like episode 1. like ok give me a moment to just be like "ugh this zuko kid is a fucking BITCH" before i have to feel for him, damn.

also zuko going straight to barbecuing feels weird to his character when they're also trying to tell us that zuko's capable of kindness and also has a strict honor code? zuko is against using bounty hunters in a way he's not in the cartoon. he talks down on the terrorism in omashu since its not 'honorable', but he also was about to burn katara who was down on the ground. of course, realistically if you're throwing fire around, you are going to burn people. but there was a suspension of disbelief in the animated version that isn't in the live action. zuko does things such as immediately resorting to fire instead of hand to hand in his fight with sokka. in the live action, i'd expect zuko to use MORE hand to hand in comparison to fire, not less. plus the fact they took out moments such as zuko not burning zhao in the agni kai or holding his hand out to save him during the north. weird dissonance at points with his character for me.

#cal.ibrations #i wrote an essay but . yeah.#might add or change my mind about some of this idk but for the most part these are what stuck out. YIPPEE!#i love hearing other ppls thoughts and reading what people say so i thought id put mine out there heehee

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