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withthewindinherfootsteps · 6 months ago

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So we know that Wei Wuxian's treatment after his death was horrible. Even if nothing could impact him directly, there was still neverending slander, hatred, misinformation, theft...

But, for a while after he died, the sects did try to impact him directly – namely, frequently trying to resummon his soul. And today I'll explore the possible reasons for this, their likelihoods, and why I'm so, so thankful that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the summons. Because, spoiler alert (or, you know. maybe not)... none of them are good.

(Long meta ahead)

In my opinion, there are four likely motivations for this: confinement, coercion, torment, and potentially destruction.

Out of all of these, confinement is probably the most likely motivation, at least for most sects (Jins and Jiangs excluded, though it was likely what the Jin sect said their motivations were – but I'll get to them later). This one is the most simple – we know spirit-trapping pouches exist, and we know the sects also placed 120 stone beasts on the Burial Mounds to prevent Wei Wuxian's soul from escaping. Therefore, this seems to be the most likely motivation – and fortunately for Wei Wuxian, probably also the best case scenario, though it still certainly isn't a good one.

For the second, coercion – this is where the Jin sect come in (more specifically Jin Guangshan with the help of Jin Guangyao). Due to their wealth and resources, they're likely the sect who played the largest role in the soul-summoning rituals. We know what they're willing to do to try to gain power – keeping Wen Ning under the pretence he was burned to death and trying to control him with the nails, and working with and helping Xue Yang torture people to help him refine his demonic cultivation, in order to have the Yin hufu fixed. Along with working with many other cultivators, alongside Xue Yang – Jin Guangshan really, really wanted that seal.

And so, Jin GuangShan sought after all those who imitated Wei WuXian in cultivating the ghostly path and gathered them under his rule. He spent a great amount of money and resources and these people, ordering them to study and analyze the structure of the Tiger Seal in secrecy so that they could replicate and restore it. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

(Note that working with these cultivators very likely happened after Wei Wuxian's soul had failed to be summoned, since this happens some time after Wei Wuxian's death, whereas the soul-summoning ceromonies presumably started happening very close to it.)

In the previous paragraph, he's also quoted as having 'lusted after' the Yin hufu, which we already knew but it's nice to have a direct quote as evidence.

Now, would Wei WuXian willingly work with the Jin sect in doing this? No. We know that, and, given Wei Wuxian's actions in his first life (refusing to hand over the Tally, not being afraid to stand up to the sects, etc), I’m pretty sure Jin Guangshan knows that, too:

He beat around the bush a couple of times, using all his skills, yet Wei WuXian didn’t give in no matter what, and it made him run into a bunch of obstacles. - Villainous Friends extra, EXR

So this could actually make things go two ways. One, I'm wrong and that wasn't actually part of the Jin sect's motivations, since they know they wouldn't be able to control him (and in that case, had they managed to summon him, I could imagine them putting him in a spirit-trapping pouch and doing something similar to what Jin Guangyao did to Nie Mingjue's head. Which, also, not good). Two, it was a part of their motivations, and they hoped to find a way around that. After all, there are other guidao users out there now, and Wei Wuxian would now be a gui*. Also, cultivators can obviously harm ghosts – see the very existence of Night Hunts, and I'd include Xue Yang's talisman-caused destruction of A-Qing as well (while he isn't a traditional cultivator, talismans can be used by everyone).

Now, would either of these methods actually work? I'm inclined to think not really (and I expand on the former method in a note below). Would that stop Jin Guangshan/Jin Guangyao/the cultivators they employ from trying? Especially considering Jin Guangshan's lust for power?

I'm inclined to think no, too.

For the third, look no further than Jiang Cheng's reputation of capturing and torturing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death, due to thinking they could be him. And this does happen – Jin Ling knows and talks about it, and there's not real motivation for him to negatively lie about someone he loves. Also, when they come across each other at Dafan Mountain, we're told this in Jiang Cheng's inner voice:

A moment ago, Jiang Cheng was certain that this person was Wei WuXian, and all of the blood in his body started to boil. Yet, now, Zidian was clearly telling him that he wasn’t. Zidian definitely wouldn’t deceive him or make a mistake, so he quickly calmed himself and thought, this doesn’t mean anything. I should first find an excuse to take him back and use every possible method to get information out of him. It’s impossible for him to not confess anything or give himself away. I’ve done things like this in the past anyways. - MDZS Chapter 10, EXR translation

This mainly shows that he's tortured people before, rather than that he's tortured people because he thinks they're Wei Wuxian, but this reason is confirmed by Jin Ling in Chapter 24. Of course, the reason is also mentioned in this chapter, and there are other moments in the chapter that illustrate my point better**, but they come from second-hand sources which I know are easier to deny. Do take note of Jiang Cheng's expression both times he comes across 'Mo Xuanyu' (after he suspects he's Wei Wuxian) in Book One***, though:

After a moment, the corners of Jiang Cheng’s lips pulled into a twisted smile. His left hand started to unconsciously stroke the ring [Zidian] again. He spoke softly, “… Well, well. So you’re back?” - Chapter 10, EXR Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy. - Chapter 23, EXR

This does seem to line up with what people say his attitude to Wei Wuxian is – there doesn't seem to be any happiness at seeing him again at all. The only time a word that could suggest that ('ecstasy') is used, it's accompanied by 'raving', and considering the context and the other possibilities of his expression, it's... probably not due to happiness at being reunited.

So, considering 1) this, 2) his contribution to the Siege specifically intended to kill Wei Wuxian, and 3) that at the time of frequent soul-summoning Jiang Yanli's death would be even closer for him, I feel pretty confident in saying that yes, this is likely a motivation for the Jiang sect in trying to re-summon Wei Wuxian's soul after his death. And, as mentioned earlier, cultivators can harm ghosts (and we know Zidian is able to remove souls posessing a body from that body, and that Jiang Cheng used Zidian on 'Mo Xuanyu' in Chapter 10. If it wasn't able to restrain/harm ghosts, or other methods weren't able to, why would he risk Wei Wuxian's soul escaping?).

And finally, option four: destruction. We're heading into much more speculative territory here, so don't consider this on par with the first three. But consider this:

We know there are some spells, like Xue Yang's talisman used on A-Qing and the body-offering ritual, that can ruin the returning soul’s reincarnation cycle by destroying it. Therefore, soul destruction is possible.

The 'main'/supposed reason for summoning Wei Wuxian's soul back is to stop the "cultivation world, or even all of mortal land" from being "faced with the most insane damnation and revenge, sinking into nothing but chaos and despair" when Wei Wuxian inevitably returns. While, as mentioned above, I severely doubt this is the motivation for certain sects – and to me is likely a rumour which the Jins (again, especially Jin Guangsha) fanned the flames of to justify summoning Wei Wuxian back for their own purposes**** – there are other sects which would take it more seriously.

Although likely disrespectful, people already thought it served Wei Wuxian right to die without his body intact by the time of the second siege – something believed to negatively affect your reincarnation in your next life*****. This is only the logical next step, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people would believe that, again, it would serve Wei Wuxian right, or would at least lead to less harm of the world in the long run.

For these reasons, I could definitely see this as an option for some sects, especially the sects who consider themselves more 'righteous' (cough cough the Nies under Nie Mingjue cough cough). After all, evil is evil and good is good, and the evil deserve what's coming to them. And what better way to prevent that than from preventing his soul from returning at all? So for the Nie sect – and likely some of the smaller sects involved in the Siege, since among them, additudes probably vary – yes, I do think it could be a motivation.

I’m not as sure about the Lans being willing to go this far, and that’s largely for two reasons. One, Lan Wangji’s presence and his relationship to Lan Xichen, who does (not always, but he does) let this affect how he treats Wei Wuxian. An example of this is that, when Wei Wuxian's return is made public, Lan Xichen does let him hide and shelter at the Cloud Recesses instead of trying to pursue him, likely majorly due to Lan Wangji. I'd argue that the aftermath of the Nightless City also acts as an example of this, although it definitely isn't perfect. But though he, Lan Qiren and the 33 elders do come to find Lan Wangji and do not let him continue to shelter Wei Wuxian (after they see Lan Wangji's feelings), Lan Xichen doesn't use this opportunity to kill/capture Wei Wuxian, despite Lan Wangji being in a worse condition due to having fought 33 elders, Wei Wuxian being catatonic, and Lan Qiren likely supporting this outcome (especially considering he was the one who led the Lan sect in the Siege – chapter 68, Wei Wuxian's POV). And he did let Lan Wangji take Wei Wuxian back to the Burial Mounds after:

After he went out of his way to send you back to Burial Mound and returned in such low spirits to receive his punishment, how long he kneeled before the Wall of Rules! - Chapter 99, EXR

Again, this was right after the Nightless City massacre – there isn't any goodwill towards Wei Wuxian at this point in time.

Of course, the Lan sect did participate in the siege after Lan Xichen knew of Lan Wangji's feelings towards Wei Wuxian, which Lan Xichen was no doubt a part of (although Lan Qiren lead the Lan sect in the siege, Lan XIchen had to have at least known/given his support, if not participated.) And it should be considered that Lan Xichen letting Wei Wuxian shelter at the Cloud Recesses was after Wei Wuxian had been back for a while, and had not caused the downfall of the Cultivation World, like many suspected he would after his death. And of course, as stated previously, his handling of the aftermath of Nightless City wasn't perfect either (though please note that his main motive here was to protect Lan Wangji from being potentially executed, rather than anything about Wei Wuxian himself). So caring about Lan Wangji doesn't mean he won't harm Wei Wuxian. But I do think he could find bringing Wei Wuxian's soul back to completely destroy it a bit excessive. There is, though, the chance that the elders of the Lan Sect would react to this differently, and of course they would have a sway on both Lan Xichen and the Lan sect as well.

The second reason is smaller, but there seems to be more focus in the Lan sect than in others when it comes to letting ghosts rest peacefully/helping them move on. And that could definitely lead to more resistance to the idea of summoning a soul back to destroy it as well, which could especially impact the elders. So I'd assume that the Lan sect would be the most likely sect to summon Wei Wuxian's soul back just for confinement, or just for some way of making sure any resentment is disippated, his spirit moves on, and he can't cause more harm to the world (eg via Inquiry)******. Not that he would or does as a ghost or as a reborn person, but that's unfortunately not relevant to this.

But yes, as a motivation for the Nie Mingjue-led Nie sect? Absolutely.

So, these are the main motives I suspect to be behind the attempted summoning of Wei Wuxian's soul after his death (and if I've missed any, please let me know – I'd love to have a discussion). And, of course, none of them lead to anywhere good. Because of course it wasn’t enough to besiege Wei Wuxian, murder the 50 non-combatants he was responsible for (and throwing them into the blood pit as a mark of disrespect because why not?), and lead to his death via him getting torn apart. It wasn’t enough to steal all his inventions, and use them commonly while still slandering him with no reprieve – or to steal his notes and give them to people like Xue Yang to study (Villainous Friends, again) and to use for their own, extremely extremely harmful, purposes. Of course, the cultivation world has to try to harm Wei Wuxian after death as well ((:

We don't know whether Wei Wuxian rejecting the summoning ceremonies was conscious or unconscious, but if it was the former, these are very likely reasons he refused to return in this way. If it was unconscious – for example, maybe during the frequent soul-summons his soul was in a weakened state due to him dying from a backlash of resentful energy and getting torn apart, and it healed over time but not before the soul-summoning rituals stopped – well, I can only be thankful.

Finally, let me leave you on the thought that – although it may well have happened since we don't spend much time in the immediate aftermath of the Sunshot campaign – there isn't even any textual mention of this happening to Wen Ruohan. Who, while not being a guidao user, was still very dangerous, still an extremely powerful cultivator, and still had a lot of reason to feel resentment. So.

:')

Thank you for reading!

*Considering what we see of how Wei Wuxian's guidao functions – redirecting the ghosts'/corpses' resentment into doing something they'd want to do, eg attacking people, and directing it towards a target – I'm not sure using it to force a spirit to do something 1) extremely specific, and 2) explicitly against their will would actually work. Iirc the closest thing we get to this in text is Wei Wuxian using the corpses of Wens to attack other Wens in the Sunshot Campaign, but he's still just directing their resentment to a target of his choice, and fierce corpses do tend to be on the less concious side of things (hence why Wei Wuxian had to awaken Wen Ning's consciousness). Considering how Wen Ning attacks Wei Wuxian and the Burial Mound Wens before his consciousness had fully awoken, I... really don't think those fierce corpses were able to differentiate (or didn't care).

Meanwhile, ghosts seem to be a bit more in control of themselves – see A-Qing, and Wei Wuxian's own descriptions of his ghost self.

That, alongside ghost!Wei Wuxian being able to resist his soul-summoning and the fact that pretty much all of the new guidao users are a lot weaker than he was, does make me think that this this wouldn't work. I do wonder about Xue Yang, since his methods are pretty different as well, but he's more of a modao user than a guidao user (he controls living corpses rather than dead people) and I don't think you can insert physical nails into ghosts?? Though if he was specifically instructed to figure out some way to control ghost!Wei Wuxian (who's probably kept in a spirit-trapping pouch in this scenario), he might be able to do something at least. Though also he was also struggling to piece Xiao Xingchen's ghost soul back together, so he may struggle with those areas?

Well, whatever the potential outcome, I'm so so happy once again that Wei Wuxian's soul managed to resist the soul-summonings...

**Mainly this:

Everyone in the cultivation world knew that the young leader of the Jiang Clan watched out for Wei WuXian in an almost crazed manner. He would rather catch the wrong person than let go of any possibility, and took anyone who seemed like they held the soul of Wei WuXian away to the YunmengJiang Sect, inflicting severe torture on his victim. If he wanted to take someone back, the opposition would surely lose half of their life. - Chapter 10, EXR

But I have heard people say 'you can't prove that it's just more rumours' before, and I wanted my evidence to be as watertight as possible.

(And, off-topic... isn't it really sad how Jiang Cheng, in the present day, is described as young? Because, for a clan leader, he is. And another thing he is, is close in age to Wei Wuxian – who was killed 13 whole years prior :') )

***And do note that the only other time they run into each other before Wei Wuxian's identity is revealed to the world apart from this is their brief interaction at Jinlintai, where he can't just act however he wants. The next time they run into each other after it, Jiang Cheng is literally taking part in another siege against him, and still extremely hostile ("surrounded by hostile energy, face insidious, staring straight at him" – from EXR chapter 60). Then he loses his spiritual powers and can't do anything. By the time he regains his powers, Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and the Wen remnants' corpses have saved everyone during the Second Siege, and though public opinion hasn't properly shifted quite yet, it will soon after Sisi and Bicao tell the story of Jin Guangyao, and voila, a new scapegoat (do note that he doesn't completely bar Wei Wuxian from entering Lotus Pier after the Second Siege, though). Plus, throughout it all, Lan Wangji is still constantly present, which makes it hard for Jiang Cheng to really do anything. And then he's finally faced with the Golden Core reveal, which does alter his motivations towards Wei Wuxian (obviously the resentment is still there – read chapter 102 – but it's also mixed with other complex emotions, and he seems to start being able to move away from that a little in Chapter 103). I still definitely wouldn't describe Jiang Cheng's attitude towards him as positive, but it isn't at the point it was at the start of the novel (eg Chapter 10).

But even if his attitude does change, or would for whatever other reason apart from the reveal, that still doesn't change an initial motivation so isn't relevant to this meta. We know his intentions at the start.

****It's also possible they may have originated it, but I think WWX's reputation was bad enough for it to form naturally. Though you can trace a major part of that back to them, too.

*****That belief isn't outright stated in MDZS, but the fact people are specifically talking about the status of WWX's body in the aftermath of his death suggests that this belief does have some grounding in the MDZS universe, at least? And we know MXTX has included it in TGCF (though that doesn't mean it's definitely in MDZS), so she has used it in her works. If this isn't the case in the MDZS universe I am sorry (although that could also mean there's less importance placed on not disturbing the reincarnation cycle in the world of MDZS...? Which would work towards my original argument) – I don't want to spread misinformation that something is definitely true, I just think there's evidence to suggest it is true, which isn't the same thing.

******Again, I think this would depend on who ends up having more influence over who in the Lan sect. After all, normal resentful spirits only do what they do because of their resentment in death, whereas Wei Wuxian is 'dangerous' because of who everyone thinks he was in life – so him being reborn naturally could also 'cause a lot of harm to the world' during the time period this version of him would live in, unlike the resentful ghosts they appease. This could definitely lead to many advocating for confinement, I think.

#writing this takes me back to my nie huaisang one #'detective metas' i'd call both of them #as opposed to analysis of characters or themes #it may be less 'meaningful' but it's still fun to explore and speculate within a world you love #...albeit maybe not for this one because. mdzs jianghu when i get my hands on you-#also i fully acknowledge i may be wrong #but again i'd love to have discussions about these! debates and knowledge exchange are what leads to better understanding of source materia #which is a major goal of mine in writing these #mdzs meta #my meta #wei wuxian #mdzs cultivation world #long post #mo dao zu shi #gdc #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #魔道祖师 #mxtx #detective meta #<– if i ever make this a tag #also i feel like you could write a fic (angsty or not so angsty depending on where you go with it) where the lan sect somehow-#-summons ghost!wwx back (not sure how bc the jin and jiang sects would probably want 'custody' of him more - and i don't think summoning-#-rituals are done by just one sect at a time? but imagine it happens) and idk he's kept in a spirit-trapping pouch or sth #lwj probably isn't told bc of what happened after nightless city - elders can't really trust him in matters to do with wwx #but maybe lxc feels bad for him or sth (especially bc he's mourning him and stuff + what happened after he found out wwx was dead)#and tells him and maybe brings wwx's soul to him for a bit so wwx can respond to inquiry #and they talk and obv. wwx is NOT happy with the situation (both rn and yk bc of the VERY RECENT SIEGE)#but but but! the thing that would stop this being completely depressing is that LWJ HAS A-YUAN SO WWX FINDS OUT HE SURVIVED #also lwj's injuries would likely come up at SOME point which would lead to wwx finding out abt nightless city afermath #AA NOO THE TAGS WENT ON FOR SO MUCH LONGER BUT I GUESS TUMBLR DOESN'T ALLOW SO MANY i'll have to make another post...

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roots-symphony · 24 days ago

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do you think the reason agatha’s trial felt weird is because she was the only one who did not actually buy into the mythos of the road since she knew the truth? like that was why no perspective change and all the other reasons why people thought it was a fake trial

#agatha all along #aaa spoilers #txt #i really liked the idea behind how the witches road came to be #like showing her and nicky coming up with the lyrics and everything #but i felt like there was a lot of these last two episodes that felt weird or jarring #i think that’s partly the fault of it being such a short run time for the whole show in general (tbh that’s probably like most of it)#but there were just also weird choices? idk #like jen’s big declaration about protecting them in honor of Lilia or w.e and then just.. flying off to nowhere??#or the way Both billy and agatha kept switching how they felt about each other with like every sentence #I did really like her thing where she helped him get tommy a body though #and her and rios vibes were off too. like it felt like there should have been a little more build up before they fought after the road?#like when they were still talking on the road it felt like they could have done more with it #just like jen getting her powers back could have been more #or billy standing up for agatha could have been more #billy’s homecoming and attempting to banish agatha too #I liked that his parents were there but it was so quick and then he just.. leaves again?? no problem?? and I guess they’re fine with it now #like it felt like the things they did well. they did really well #while everything else felt.. idk.. kinda flat?#which honestly was the same feeling I had after watching agatha’s trial episode #honestly this show need at least another 3 or 4 episodes if not more #and I know people are going to make this all about agatha and rio but i really don’t think that’s the issue #i do think the story could have benefited more from showing more of their actual backstory or a few more interactions with them or just #like i said earlier done more with what they had. again that scene on the road before rio dips could have been used way more effectively #and I don’t mean in like having them be soft or lovey like I know a lot of people wanted (never be against that) but I don’t think it was #needed.. but Something was??#i feel like overall what everyone went through on the road didn’t actually truly effect them or change them?#like jen left. agatha and rio were like back to liek the road never happened. everyone else but billy is dead #i think the only person who was truly changed was maybe billy?#which makes the whole journey feel so unsatisfying? like things could still have ended the same while still showing them changed? idk

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dykedvonte · 1 month ago

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My post about Anya is making like a little ruckus on Twitter and I think it’s crazy how many people like have a problem with it.

Like you don’t have to agree with how I characterize Anya and her actions but it’s more like, why are you focused on only one aspect of her character? Why are you removing nuance from the situation? I don’t see it as giving Curly the benefit of the doubt when it comes to doing better for Anya, but as exploring his character and hers relationship with a the very little authentic facts we get about them. In truth, there’s a lot more I wish Curly did, even if it wasn’t pragmatic but I realize the issue there.

The first psychological horror game in a while that’s real intricate in its storytelling and makes you need to really need to address the morality of intentions and its already getting torn asunder smh 😔

#I don’t know if it’s the case of people who hate curly and think he should’ve just killed Jimmy won’t accept anything else #but I really am trying to get the idea that they were stuck for over a year in space together on a ship barely kept together with wildly #different and conflicting personalities who also got more hostile because they know they are going home to unemployment #it sounds heartless to say and he should have prioritized her more but in his head that’s not the only thing he has to manage and he has to #fit the necessary actions to take in his head with all that including his perception of them as a friend vs as a boss #idk I just don’t believe Curly was comforting Jimmy with the intent of helping him get rid of Anya. he wanted to help both of them he went #about it horribly like the game is literally about realizing how misguided you can be and that responsibility #and how to be responsible look different even if there are better options like it’s just weird just block my ass dawg #also I think the argument of how could the situation be worse if he stopped Jimmy is stupid cause it’s under the guise that Curly would #assume someone he trusted would just try and commit murder suicide or he’d get degloved and all his crew directly #or indirectly killed by that friend like sorry if that’s a reach statement like adding #your supplementary thoughts is how analysis is born but adding facts about events we don’t know happened and treating them like character #truths is lame is a cop out from actually engaging with parts of the story that adds grey areas to characters you wants to see in black #this is just a stupid like thing to me but it makes me sad cause I don’t even hate seeing depictions of Curly as more aware and #accommodating to Jimmy purposely but I need you to understand he thought he was doing the right thing for both his friends and his closest #friend but the key point is he thought he was doing right for both of them like what game were we both watching???#mouthwashing #like just block me pls like Anya would not share ur mindset or hold ur hand like do more than just pity her if you like her so much

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beeduoo · 7 months ago

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originnssssss who remembers origins i Loved origins

#origins smp #i heard theres been like three failed origins revivals WHAT EVEN HAPPENED i was only there for the first one😅#beeduo #otubbo #oranboo #beeduo fanart #i rewatched some origins streams a little while ago oh my god theyre SO FUNNY #DUDE DOES ANUONE REMMEBER THAT ONE STREAM I COUDLNT FIND RHIS ONE STREAM #IR WAS LIKE THE ONE WHERE TUBBO WAS SINGING SUGAR BY MAROON FIVE and they were being really Funny thay shit h #ad me CRYING in 2021 Please i swear this happened imnot crazy but also they might have been separate streams actuallu i dont rememebr its #been wayyyyyyy too long #BUT IT HAPPENED I PROMISE Sorry i've been gone for a while ive been very busy lots of Things going on went to Six flags then jad a surprise #bday party then i had to buy shoes for prom then Go to prom and also i do figure skating and am out like every day idknt have Time im sorry☹#had a crepe yesterday it was sooooo goood im like learning to drive too that shit is boring as hell my dad kept gettign 😑 bc i couldn't stop #yawning DRIVING IS SO BORING its not my fault😭😭😭😭#ok what else ohhhh. y god i locked in SO HARD for this physics essay u guys dont even knowim getting ONE HUNDRED on that trust i just really #wanted to share ok i love you bge #WAIT ACTUALLT SORRU IM LIKE REMMEBERJNG THE ORIGINS STREAMS K WAYCHED #RANBOO WAS SO FUCKING FUNNT IN THOSE STREAMS TOO LIKE I REMEMBER NIKI WANTED TO SEE THEIR BASE and tubbo was like ooh maybe we can put like #water down here for you niki we need a water system and ranwas like Do we though?I WAD WAYCHING THAT .LIKE DAMMMNNNNNN OM LIKE GIGGLING WRIT #ING THIS RIGHT NOW I CAN HEARTHE CLIP HE DID NOTTT WANT HER IJNTHEIR BASE😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭#I NEED TO FIDN THAT STREAM WHERE IRS LIKE TOMMY AND JACK A D FHEHRE LOKE TALKING ABOUT DUOS AND THEN JACK SAYS THE MOST OUT OF POCKET SHIT I #VE EVER HEARD LKKE I LITERALLU HAD TK PAUSE. H PHONE AND BURST OUR LAUHJIMG MY JAW WAS ON THE FLOORRRRR DO U GUYS R EME ER WTF IM TLAKING AB #OUT IDK HOW TO FIND THESE STREAMS Oh my god u really Had to be there early 2021 that was liye the funniest era of mt life i wlild be #Tearing up from lauhjimg every day I MISS WAYCHING STREAMS LIVE CHAT WAS SO FUNNY I wishe it was archivedI WISH MORE STREAMERS KEPT CHAT ON #SCREEN i defiently understand why most didn't like Wyd when chats annouing ad hell but also Me 3 years later is interested in what the pub #lic had to say.... ok Now bye

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mbat · 6 days ago

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i kinda love and hate something about the new expansion, and its anduins story

disclaimer that my knowledge of world of warcraft in general is very... tangled. like, if youve ever pulled out a bunch of necklaces and theyre tangled together and youre like 'what the fuck how do i even fix this'. thats my knowledge of world of warcraft. ive learned everything out of order and theres a lot i dont even know yet blah blah

but anyway

what i understand is that during shadowlands, anduin basically got ?posessed? and was forced to be fully aware as he watched his own body do horrible things that couldnt be undone, and that part of him enjoyed it.

and then it ended and he was so fucked up by that (rightfully) that he went and hid from the world for a while, isolating himself and only furthering these horrible feelings because he couldnt find a way to not feel horrible about what happened

and then hes found and told that hes needed again, but hes still beating himself up

and the worst part is, he cant find it in himself to reconnect with this thing thats important to him, the light, because he thinks hes unworthy. the light is seen as such a good thing in this world, and he thinks himself no longer good. (i could say how this feels weirdly christian but that is NOT the point here)

he goes on this journey anyway, how could he not? their world is in trouble.

and in this journey, they find a land hiding away thats pretty much made to help him LMAO. theres a few things, but mostly... theres the light. a gem rock star thingy of some kind as bright as the sun sticking out of the ceiling of an underground world, and it is the light. the light he feels he lost

and he meets someone whos so devoted to it, so hopeful despite everything thats happened to her, and she sees in him what he thinks he doesnt have for anyone to see

she lets him know that the light is still there, he still has it, he will be okay. he doesnt believe it, but he starts to

its through this journey that he learns that what happened doesnt define who he is, not forever, not even now, and he finds the light again

especially in such a pivotal moment where he does something thats the opposite of what he was forced to do before

where he was forced to hurt and kill people

he finds his ability to heal again, and revives someone

and i guess i said i love it and hate it because like... i hate that this isnt in a form i can easily re-consume like a book or a show or a movie, or even a linear video game. and once i go through it on a character, i cant do it again unless its on another character, and i only have so many high level characters. i could probably just watch videos or something about it but idk it just doesnt work the same

i also hate that i know im not gonna find many people talking about it, at least, not even in the way i want

but what i love is that this type of story was done at all. i feel like its underdone, where a character, especially a character whos 'the good one', does something(s) thats horrible, maybe even 'unforgivable' depending who you ask, and they have to deal with realizing that it doesnt define them, and they can still be good, still be worth loving and having a good life. learning to forgive themself.

i feel like its a story that a lot of people need to hear, even if they dont even realize it. i know ive done things in the past i still feel like i will never make up for, and i still dont know how to feel about it all.

i think its actually wild that something like world of warcraft did it at all, and honestly, i think they did it well. i guess i cant speak much on the shadowlands part of it because i have yet to see all of that, only really the cutscenes and cinematics, but ive seen the war within part of it.

and idk i feel like i have so much to say but i cant think of more, but i really enjoyed it.

#my post #world of warcraft #anduin wrynn #the war within #world of warcraft the war within #HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME RELATE TO A BLONDE PERSON /J #wild that the only other time i can think of this thing happening similarly in fiction is like... steven universe future #theres definitely more but im blanking #i also relate in more ways than i feel comfortable saying and like.... fuck dude #I HAVENT KILLED ANYONE i dont relate like that Zjfjsjfjd #also i will say i kinda thought he straight up killed that one person in that one scene but ig not...?#i also kept thinking he killed the person in the center of oribos that sends people where they need to go but that. isnt true #the person he attacked was ?? the leader of bastion ?? idk man idk the fucking shadowlands lore #BUT ALSO AH AGHHAHGHFHGHHH AHGH GHFGH <- DYING #WHEN I WAS WATCHING THE CINEMATICS FOR SHADOWLANDS? THE FUCKING? THE . THE. THE LOOK ON HIS FACE WHEN THAT HAPPENED #WHEN THE POSESSION ALMOST FADES AND HE REALIZES WHAT HES DONE AND HE LOOKS SO FUCKING HORRIFIED #BUT THEN HES POSESSED AGAIN AND FORCED TO JUST. FUCKING DEAL WITH IT? FUCK OFF. THAT SHIT HURT ME #i need to absorb this man into my bones im gonna make him part of me. no im not but fml i kinda love him HES SO PUPPY #tropes

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sparring-spirals · 8 months ago

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There is a universe in which i was caught up properly on CR whenever what the fuck went down and Imogen verbally and definitively declared that- after everything leading up to this and the back and forth and indecision- that she'd be willing to take down her mom if need be. and i would have been deeply insufferable and writing 20+ separate meta posts and liveblog yelling posts and shitposts. This is not that universe so instead we will put this post here where i can have wildly uninformed (aka 20 eps behind) Emotions about it until someday i actually catch up.

(I know. i accidentally wrote potentially wildly off base/deeply out of date meta again. what can i say. i like shaking the concept of An Imogen (even if it is Outdated Imogen) in a jar. sorry.)

Because i was watching long enough, I think, to see Imogen in the throes of the hope for something better, to understand that Imogen was viewing her mom was a figure and an idea and an answer, that would make things easier. Her mom was- gone, so early. And so her mom, in her mind, was not a person she was an idea, and there was so much hinged on that! Dogged determination and anger at her father and a deep seated dislike of the powers in her hands and head even as they gave her a guilty rush. There were promises there that maybe no one else had made, but Imogen believed. Things built up. Expectations made. Lore crafted, even unconsciously, around someone who was, yes, important to Imogen, but more importantly: Missing. Gone. A blank slate to be filled in. A promise of an answer guide to open questions.

And then she meets her mom, and Liliana Temult goes from a figure to a person- with all the bells and whistles and rough edges. She meets her mom and her mom turns her away. Tells her to run. Tells her she should go. Tells her to leave.

And Imogen doesn't. In the same way she kept visiting libraries, keps asking, kept pushing for answers when it was just about her magic and her headaches and the voices. Imogen always, always wants to know. She keeps digging, she keeps trying, she reaches out, over and over and keeps trying to touch this figure in mist until she's real under her hands, and. Evidence piles up- of deeds gone wrong, blood on her hands, a figure standing next to Otohan (her friends bodies scattered, lifeless, around Otohan). She keeps reaching out, keeps trying, and is rebuffed, over and over. Things get worse and the skies get redder and magic goes dead and she's still- unsure, because what if there's a better reason, what if there's a better way, there has to be a reason, why. There has to be, right- maybe if- maybe. Maybe-

Its just like- a person as an idea. As a symbol. As a promise. One you build yourself up around and towards. One you talk about, not talk to.

And then the fog clears, and they are a human.

(And she's your mom, and she's not what you imagined. She's done you wrong. She's done your loved ones wrong. She's hurt you. She's hurt others. She's going to keep hurting you. She is going to keep hurting everyone. She is too far gone to reason with. She is not listening to you. She is flawed. She is. dangerous. She looks so much like you. You look just like her. You are so similar. You have always known you were similar. You always hoped. You.

Are not her. You are not hers. She is not yours. She is not who you thought she was. She was always someone else. So are you.)

Imogen walks through the bases pretending to be her mother. Liliana is a known face- a powerful one, a figure people fear. A well known silhouette. Imogen slips into the shadows of it, sometimes, when it serves her, but we know- she knows- its all an act. All a lie.

Liliana, after all, is alive, and well, making choices that she believes in and fighting for things with a dogged determination maybe only matched by her daughter.

Imogen knows this. I think. There's a part of her that maybe wishes that wasn't the case.

"There is no loyalty with this blood." And after all- only living people bleed.

#im so sorry for yet again writing deeply uninformed. idk if this counts as meta. its more me going 'hey if this IS whats happening. WILD.'#critical role #cr spoilers #c3e88 #imogen temult #spar speaks #liliana temult #this is REALLY just a word vomit based on gut assumptions from what i actually watched. my vague knowledge from posts ive seen. and now thi #im functionally playing connect the dots here which is. Not How Meta Should Be Written so take this more as fun speculation prose i guess??#no one take this too srs its mostly so if/when i finally watch everything i can reference how off my assumptions were #this is def based off where things were around when the solstice happened bc thats when i was last mostly caught up #so the odds of me fully MISSING some important imogen dev and character things since then are. actually its not odds. its like.definitive.#but maybe this is true for at least early campaign imogen to ep 50 imogen #and it would be VERY cool if it actually applied to her now #i kept saying 50 eps but looking at my last liveblogs it might he closer to 20-30. ... still.

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