Hi Pia
Feel free to ignore if this is unwelcome, but have you ever thought about publishing traditionally to sublimate your income and draw in new readers?
I know you've self published two books already and that you didn't feel like they did very well, but maybe the experience would be different if someone else was in charge of marketing and all the other business stuff?
Obviously everyone's experience is different but as an author myself who's published both trad and self, traditional publishing has been a completely different experience and has allowed me to focus more on writing because I'm not the one responsible for advertising/marketing/financing anymore.
There are a ton of literary agents nowadays that want to represent diverse and lgbtqia+ fiction, some of them even in Australia.
Websites like Reedsy, AgentQuery and Jerichowriters have extensive directories to find literary agents.
(This is lengthy folks so I'm putting the other two parts (and my response) under a read more! Also putting it under a read more so the anon can skip my response since it's very 'here's all the reasons I can't do this' and they just might not want to read that, lmao)
(continued -> )
Trad publishing houses have better resources for marketing and helping authors get more attention than any self publishing website could.
Obviously most authors, unless they're really prolific, don't get a huge advance (the average is between $1000 - $5000) but getting your foot in the door or on the traditional publishing "ladder' so to speak can have a huge benefit for your serials. Because it gives you more exposure. Plus it's in the agent's best interest to find a publishing house that accepts stories that contain darker themes and negotiate the best deal for you.
For some reason places like Amazon and the like accept and keep up more "dark" books that are traditionally published than they do with self pub ones. Maybe because they have more respect or leniency for publishing houses? I have no idea. But you could use this to your advantage.
I think I remember you mentioning that writing novels felt quite isolating to you? But you already have 2 completed novels (3 if you count the fae one) that you could potentially revisit or rewrite to your liking and get them represented by agents.
You already have a loyal readership and that's very attractive to trad pub houses and agents.
As well as trad publishing, you could also make s simple website that doesn't require much maintenance. It could be just a landing page that says something about you and then has links to your tumblr and patreon where you're more active. That way you increase the chances of getting your serials found by additional readers and also come across looking more "professional". Not that you're not professional now. You are and I admire you greatly, but the unfortunate reality is a lot of people still judge by appearances and some will be more drawn to an author's website than a tumblr page, at least at first. So I think having a simple landing page would open up another door for you to benefit from.
Trad publishing is work but definitely not as much as self publishing, and you can continue on with your serials. Getting an agent can be time consuming but I personally believe the pros outweigh the cons and I also believe that your stories would be a huge treasure to the growing lgbtqia+ market. Seriously there needs to be more!
These are just suggestions and thoughts and like I said before, feel free to ignore. But I know you've mentioned wanting to grow your career in the past and I genuinely believe you can do so with some of these pathways.
~
Okay, my response. Posting this because firstly I think the suggestions could work very well for other authors reading this! And I hope they take the advice to note, and secondly because I haven't talked about this for a hot minute so let's talk about it again.
So the TL;DR is yes I have considered traditional publishing. I have actually been traditionally published in short stories, poetry, and also had my art published on covers and re: interior illustrations. But my Fae Tales works got soundly rejected when I sent them to publishing houses that were doing open calls for that sort of material. I've never heard back from an agent and I never expect to, heh.
~
Now for a bit more detail
I have been traditionally published before (it's how I got my writing out there long before I ever wrote serials), and yes, I have approached publishers with my writing since then. In fact Tradewinds was written for the traditional publishing market, and it got soundly rejected, and then shelved. The reasons it was rejected ran the gamut from 'I don't like that these fae eat humans no one is going to relate to these people' (while the editor then went on to publish vampire books idk) to 'There's too much worldbuilding you can't expect readers to keep up with this' to 'Your stories are too long, no one wants to read characters talking all the time.'
Meanwhile in my online serials I was getting feedback like 'my favourite chapters are the ones where the characters just sit in a room and talk' lol.
The traditional publishing world is also not quite as utopian for most authors as you make it seem. I'm friends with a lot of authors who are traditionally published because that's the world I came from, and unless they're solely in KU and doing generic rapid release formula romances, none of them are making that much money. Certainly not enough to live off. It may have been that you were very fortunate, anon, but I know hundreds more traditionally published authors that left trad pub to make money, and I know about 5 in trad pub personally who are making enough to live off of.
Only one of those is really writing what she truly loves to write, and even then, publishing houses have refused to commit to her entire fantasy series (and she's regularly in 'Top 10/20 Women Fantasy Authors in the World' lists) and forced her to finish the series prematurely. Something I never ever have to worry about in self pub.
The reality is that in trad pub these days, you're still in charge of most of your marketing unless you're one of the big earners for the publishing house. In fact I'd be expected to keep even more of a social media and marketing presence than I do now. I don't do almost any of the things you're supposed to do as an author in marketing to be appealing. I don't have a Facebook author account. I don't have an Instagram author account. I don't maintain or regularly send out newsletters (which automatically puts me in the like 0.05% of authors who make money doing this lmao).
I don't know if you ever have looked that closely into what m/m publishing houses expect from most of their authors, but the newsletter swaps, cover releases, review circuits, interview circuits and more are fucking grueling. We're expected to be responsible for our advertising and our marketing to a fairly massive degree. Some traditionally published in m/m still have to pay for their release blitzes out of pocket. These publishing houses, by and large, do not offer advances. You say most authors don't get large advances. I don't think most authors in this arena get offered advances at all unless they're somehow miraculously acquired by a Big 4.
We're expected to have an already established social media presence because of that (that's why it's so appealing to publishers that we have social media presences already, anon, so we can market, they can save money, and we still see only a minimal cut from the royalties).
And you still have to focus on your finances, because publishing houses like Dreamspinner straight up didn't pay a whole bunch of authors for so long they destroyed careers. They still haven't paid some of their authors. And they're still running a business and people still buy their books.
Trad publishing houses have better resources for marketing and helping authors get more attention than any self publishing website could.
This is true if a) they're a big publishing house and not an indie publisher of which most LGBTQIA+ publishing houses are and b) they're willing to use them on you.
The authors that make the most money get the most resources. If they believe you're going to earn back your advance and move thousands or tens of thousands of units per book, then yes, you will get those resources.
I have been told so many times now - even from friends who run publishing houses, including one who works at HarperCollins - that my work will never be mainstream enough to have broad appeal. They literally told me not to keep trying re: trad pub, because that was my dream for a long time. These folks have given me rock solid advice in the past, it's one of the reasons I'm doing so well now via Patreon + Ream. But they were like (paraphrasing) 'you don't write 60-80k romances and you don't want to and that's not your strength anyway, you're multi-genre which makes you hard to market, you write psychological and literary trauma recovery which is hard to market, you write character studies which are hard to market, publishing houses often don't commit to series anymore if the first two don't move units and if they pulled the plug you'd be contractually obliged to never finish that series until your contract was up.' I could go on, but it was like yeah...actually. Fair.
For some reason places like Amazon and the like accept and keep up more "dark" books that are traditionally published than they do with self pub ones. Maybe because they have more respect or leniency for publishing houses?
They do, but most publishing houses want very formulaic dark romance which is not what I write.
I have a 300k omegaverse slowburn that still hasn't had any penetrative sex in it, anon. Publishing houses don't want that. They don't expect anyone will wait 4 full length novels to get to literally a single penetrative sex scene.
But you already have 2 completed novels (3 if you count the fae one) that you could potentially revisit or rewrite to your liking and get them represented by agents.
If I rewrote them to my liking, trad pub wouldn't want them. They'd be too long! I think agents etc. take one look at me and go 'oh god, no thank you!' I'm not an easy sell, by any means.
Plus I'm very e.e about all of that with the knowledge that they then give me only about 10-15% of the royalties on the sales, vs. self-pub where I get around 70%, or subscription where I around 80% of it. When someone subscribes to me, they don't have to worry about 85-90% of their subscription fee going to a publishing house. I don't have to think about how many thousands and thousands of books I'd have to sell to make the same amount that I do now via subscription.
As well as trad publishing, you could also make s simple website that doesn't require much maintenance.
If it was that simple, I'd be doing it. I don't mean this in a facetious way, I mean it in a: I've made a lot of websites, in fact I run one at the moment not connected to my writing (I've been running it for so long it's now in its 20s and can probably has a driver's license). I find it so tedious that I barely remember to check in on it. But forgetting about it means there's always maintenance to keep up with when I get back to it.
Running websites is simpler than it used to be, but it's still not simple. There's hosting and hosting costs, there's server changes, there's back-end maintenance etc. I'm considering it for down the track, but there's a reason I decided to go the route of Patreon over my own site. There are authors (like Christopher Hopper) who actually do subscription through their own domain, but it's a lot of work.
Even placeholder sites are still work. They need updating, details change, story titles changing etc. Maintaining my Patreon + Ream About pages is enough, they're always both a little out of date, lol.
Not that you're not professional now.
Oh no, I mean from a 'traditional publisher looking at me to see what kind of candidate I am' I'm really not though. Like I said, I don't have the newsletter (100 subscribers who get one newsletter a year is not really a newsletter), I don't have the Facebook/Tiktok/Insta/Twitter/Bluesky/Threads accounts, etc. I write multi-genre across multiple steam levels, and I'm allergic to writing serials shorter than 150k. One of my best performing original serials was an 800k contemporary story with no sex in it but a lot of BDSM. It can't be marketed as clean or sweet, it's not high steam, an entire chapter is 'boy saves snail from rain.' Also he was cruel to animals, so not exactly what I'd call a sympathetic main.
And yet that story did so well for me via Patreon + Ream, because people want the kinds of stories that publishing houses generally don't want and I happen to be writing them.
Trad publishing is work but definitely not as much as self publishing, and you can continue on with your serials. Getting an agent can be time consuming but I personally believe the pros outweigh the cons and I also believe that your stories would be a huge treasure to the growing lgbtqia+ market. Seriously there needs to be more!
Anon I just literally do not believe an agent would want to represent me. I have 0% belief in that. Not from a self-deprecating angle but from a 'I am not a good bet for the trad market' perspective. From a 'I have so many friends who are trad pubbed authors who stare at me like I'm insane for writing serials as long as I do' perspective. From a 'professionals in the industry have told me it's amazing I'm doing so well in serials because there's no way they'd take a risk on what I'm doing' perspective. From a 'just because it's queer and diverse doesn't mean it hits literally any other thing a trad pub is looking for' perspective. I've been doing this for 10 years. There are agents who represent work similar to mine who know what I'm doing and wouldn't touch me with a ten foot pole. They're not missing out on a trick, they know I'm not broad appeal, and they're right.
Also the only way I'd have the energy to manage trad pub is by quitting serials. And honestly, I never found trad pub all that much fun while I was doing it for non-novel stuff. It was fine, and it is nice to have my stuff out there, but it was a ton of admin and a lot of going back and forth between people who really only care about marketing a product, and that's great and what they excel at! But I'm too disabled to turn this job into something crushing just to potentially make more money, I'd rather just quit and go back onto a full Disability Pension. I can't see any way I still get to write the stories I want to write, in the way that I write them, and be remotely appealing to a single reputable trad pub or agent.
Also *gestures to everything in this article*
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[ 𝙲𝚑𝚒𝚋𝚊 𝙽𝚊𝚘𝚖𝚒'𝚜 𝚃𝟹 𝚅𝙳] 𝙰 𝙶𝚛𝚘𝚠𝚗 𝚄𝚙 𝙲𝚑𝚒𝚕𝚍'𝚜 𝚃𝚊𝚗𝚝𝚛𝚞𝚖
naomi's vd and mv.. oh these ones.. these were hard to write. i feel bad for naomi but i also can't deny that she's a very messed up person..
Warnings for Naomi's VD: descriptions of murder, violence, abusive family dynamics.
Warnings for Naomi's MV: themes of physical and emotional abuse, descriptions of violence.
(sounds of footsteps)
Miki: Do you.. think Ishizu-san is going to be okay?
Hinode: Well, we took the memories of Eiko-san talking about Eiji-san, so he probably should feel less jealous of him now..
Hinode: But I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up remembering Eiji-san once he sees him again.
Miki: Speaking of Eiji-san.. When is he going to show up?
Miki: It's time to interrogate the fourth prisoner and he's still not with us..
Hinode: Ah.. Let's not worry about that for now.
Hinode: I'm sure he will join us very soon.
Miki: .. He's still alive, right?
Hinode: Why wouldn't he be? It was just a broken arm, I'm sure he's fine.
(the door opens)
Miki: Hello, Chiba-san. We're here to-
Naomi: Akasaki Tao.
Miki: What-
Naomi: Akasaki Tao, 10 years old. He was my student and my victim.
Hinode: .. Starting with this, huh?
Naomi: I just want this to end as soon as possible. Ask me anything you want and I will answer.
Miki: .. Are you mad at us, Chiba-san?
Naomi: "Mad"? *laughs* I'm not mad at all. Just.. confused, maybe?
Naomi: Like.. I just want to know why.
Naomi: Why would you change your mind so suddenly? Maybe my video showed you something you didn't like?
Naomi: Did you finally realize just how bad my crime was?
Miki: .. I guess you could say so. But also..
Miki: *in a lower voice* Chiba-san, we already know that you're a child murderer, but you really couldn't sit through three trials without trying to kill another kid, huh?
Naomi: .. Hm? What's that supposed to mean-
Naomi: Ah.. I understand now.
Naomi: My apologies, my memory has been quite blurry lately.
Naomi: Probably because of my punishment.
Hinode: Naomi-san, just why do you dislike children so much? Do you just find them annoying?
Hinode: Or maybe you're jealous of them?
Naomi: ...
Naomi: *laughs* Why would I be jealous of that brat?
Naomi: I'm talking about both Asahi and Tao right now.
Naomi: God, they're literally one and the same. It's almost like Asahi is a reincarnation of Tao- Never mind, he's actually older than him.
Hinode: Well, even though Asahi-san's personality is.. quite unique, he's not completely alone.
Hinode: He's very close with Miki-san and lately, he seems to have become friends with some other prisoners, like Akio-san and Kei-san.
Hinode: Yes, there are prisoners who would gladly hurt him, like you and Yurika-san, but..
Hinode: Asahi-san is still loved. And you aren't.
Naomi: .. It's kind of cruel to say things like that, don't you think so, Hinode-san?
Naomi: But it's true.. I wonder why I wasn't able to become close with any of the prisoners.
Naomi: Maybe there's just something wrong with me.
Naomi: Maybe I'm just not a cute child who can get away with anything, no matter how immoral and disgusting their actions are-
Naomi: ...
Naomi: Haha.. Fine. Maybe I really am jealous.
Naomi: .. But I still can't be mad at Tao. I still feel guilty about murdering him.
Naomi: .. Tao's family didn't care about him at all. He came from a family that was very well-known in our town and they had such a good reputation, but we didn't know what was going on behind closed doors.
Naomi: His family.. was very similar to mine, actually. Maybe that's why I feel bad for him.
Naomi: His parents weren't sad about his death. Honestly, maybe they actually were relieved.
Naomi: His classmates weren't sad about his death. Some of them even were happy about it. Children really can be so cruel sometimes, haha..
Naomi: So when I found out about his situation.. I just didn't know how to feel. Was I supposed to cry? Was I supposed to be angry? Was I supposed to be happy and proud that I've ended his suffering?
Miki: .. I think we saw Tao-san's parents talking to you in your second video.
Naomi: Ah.. Right. They did talk to me about Tao and.. the way they treated him.
Miki: T-they've just told you everything?!
Naomi: Um.. Kind of. However, they also made sure to make it sound like..
Naomi: It was Tao's fault from the start.
Naomi: "Oh, he was just too hard to control!", "He wouldn't understand us if we tried something else!", "We've always told him to be careful, but he didn't listen!"
Miki: ...
Hinode: Miki-san, is everything okay?
Miki: .. Y-yes. I'm fine. I'm fine.
Miki: .. Did they know that you were the one who killed him?
Naomi: *shrugs* Not sure. But I feel like most people knew it was me.
Naomi: I.. don't remember the days after my murder that well, but for some reason, people were more worried about me than Tao.
Naomi: Like they looked at me and kept saying "It wasn't your fault" and they told me just how good of a teacher I am.
Naomi: Tao's death felt.. like some kind of twisted celebration.
Naomi: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the whole town celebrated a kid dying, but it was more like..
Naomi: .. He caused everyone a lot of trouble. Nobody had any good memories related to him.
Naomi: And his parents really made it sound like he was just being his usual self when he died.
Naomi: He just wasn't careful enough. It was an accident. It wasn't anybody's fault, except it was kind of his fault.
Naomi: And because of their reputation and my family's reputation, people just thought of it as a sad little story and didn't think too much about it.
Naomi: They knew that if they think more deeply about it, they'd probably get in trouble for doubting our families.
Miki: ...
Hinode: Miki-san, if you're not feeling well, you don't have to-
Miki: .. How did you kill him?
Naomi: Hm? You never saw it in the video?
Miki: Just tell me how you killed him.
Naomi: Well.. To put it simply, I ran him over.
Naomi: *laughs* Mom was right, I really am not the best driver.
Miki: Did you do it on purpose? Was it planned?
Naomi: No, not at all. It just.. happened, I guess.
Hinode: .. It wasn't intentional?
Naomi: It's still a murder though. It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not.
Naomi: It was a rainy day, I couldn't see that well and my mental state was.. not that good.
Naomi: Everything around me was blurry and even when I saw what I thought was some kind of silhouette, I didn't stop.
(bell rings, machinery sounds)
Naomi: Ah, is the interrogation over already?
Hinode: Naomi-san, but why were your mental state "not that good"? Did something happen?
Naomi: .. Haha, don't worry about it. Just my mother being.. my mother, I guess.
Hinode: You're the oldest prisoner here and you still felt like you have to do everything your mother says?
Naomi: ...
Hinode: You've said that your family is very similar to Tao-san's.. Could it be that your mother also often said that "you weren't careful enough" or put all the blame on you?
Naomi: ...
Hinode: .. So it's like.. Even though you're an adult who has a job, can drive and owns a car, has a good reputation, is respected by so many other adults and loved by so many kids..
Hinode: You still feel like a child who will get punished if she does something wrong?
Hinode: It's just that you don't know if you should be afraid of being punished or you should be asking to get punished.
Naomi: .. Haha..
Naomi: Hey, if you think I am so evil, why don't you just kill me already?
Naomi: Do it. End my suffering, just like I've ended Tao's. Come on, a murderer like me doesn't deserve to live.
Miki: We can do just that.
Naomi: Huh?
Miki: Oh, wait.. We can't, actually. You would need like three guilty verdicts for that..
Miki: What a shame. Also, Chiba-san..
Miki: If you're so evil, why should we end your suffering anyway? Please, go ahead and suffer more for us.
Naomi: What-
Miki: And also, stay the fuck away from my brother, thank you very much.
Miki: Prisoner 004, Naomi, sing your sins!
42% ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓░░░░░░░░░░░░ 100%
[ Naomi's Trial 3 MV: Like An Adult ]
The video starts with younger version of Naomi writing something on the blackboard. She smiles and turns to the classroom, looking proud, but then she suddenly gets hit with a paper airplane.
She looks at the classmate who made the airplane and sees that it's actually her victim, Tao.
"I hate it, I hate you, I hate myself
It's always the same every single day
Do you think you're better than me? You're just a stupid child
And I'm the adult here, so I have all the power"
He laughs and Naomi looks around. She sees that all of her classmates are just Tao's clones and all of them are laughing at her. She starts to shake and she walks closer to one of the clones.
"Ugh, I can't take it anymore, so annoying, won't you shut up already?
Looks like I have to solve this problem like an adult would
I have to show that I'm stronger, I have to show that I'm better
Violence is the only way to stay in control"
She grabs the chair next to him and starts beating the boy with it and it looks a lot like her Undercover MV scene, where she does the same thing, but to one of the guards. She laughs as she does so and she starts beating other boys with that chair as well.
"Your looks, your posture, your voice, your face
Everything about you is not mature enough
Don't laugh, don't cry, look them right in the eyes but not for too long
Go on, look at me, be honest with me, don't feel sorry for me, just like an adult would"
But then, Naomi hears someone's steps and turns to look for the source of the sound and she immediately drops the chair. She doesn't notice that all of the clones are already lying on the floor, covered in blood. She can only see her mother, standing in front of her, looking shocked and disgusted.
"Oh no, am I still a disappointment to you?
Am I still not enough? Am I still too much?
Being a failure is the only thing I'm winning at
So please reward me for at least trying my best"
The setting changes and now we can see a playground. Naomi's younger version is sitting on a swing and we can see that she has some bandaids on her legs and arms. Naomi sees a kid playing with his mother and being happy and having fun, but when the mother leaves, the kid casually breaks the toy he got from her, not seeing it as a big deal.
"Can't you be more grateful? You have everything I don't
Nothing is ever enough for you, you're just a parasite
So I have no choice but to crush you like a bug"
Something about his behavior angers Naomi and she attacks the boy, making him fall on the ground. Everything around Naomi is blurry and she can't even see the boy's face clearly, but it looks like she's really enjoying this. And then, her mother appears again, but this time, she looks older. And we see Naomi's older version still attacking the boy as well. The boy looks a lot like a certain prisoner too.
"Ah, looks like I will never change
I am still a stupid child in your eyes
Not good enough, not good enough
No matter how hard I try, I will never truly grow up"
It starts raining and we can see Naomi and her mother walking somewhere. Naomi's mother looks really angry and she's yelling at her, but Naomi doesn't seem to care and her eyes look completely empty. Even after her mother slaps her, she still doesn't care much and even laughs. She walks to her car, ignoring her mother who seems to be against her driving, and simply smiles at her as she closes the car door.
The rain gets worse and we can see flashes of lightning. Naomi is driving and it looks like she's very close to having a mental breakdown. She seems to be having trouble breathing and she's crying and laughing at the same time and she's not looking at the road. When she finally looks at it, we can only see another lightning flash and it's brighter than before.
We see a room that looks kinda familiar and it feels like we've seen it in Naomi's second video. Naomi's mother opens the door and runs into the room, looking worried. She tries to talk to two people who seem to be Tao's parents, but they interrupt her and ask her to follow them. She agrees and they walk into a different room. When the door opens, Naomi's mother gets even more shocked than in the beginning of the video and her face goes pale and we can see drops of sweat on her face. And then we see what made her react this way.
"My looks, my posture, my voice, my face
Everything about me is not mature enough
Don't laugh, don't cry, look them right in the eyes but not for too long
Please say you feel sorry for me, just like a good parent would"
There's younger Naomi, sitting on the couch, completely covered in bruises and scratches, her hair is a mess, her eyes are even more empty, even her pose looks unnatural, but she's still smiling. It's actually the biggest and most sincere smile we've ever seen from Naomi. She starts laughing again and as she does so, her mother covers her mouth with her hand, refusing to believe that this is happening and Tao's parents help her leave the room.
"Nothing but a disappointment, nothing but a disappointment
Useless child pretending to be an adult
A teacher who has nothing to teach
A failure who has nothing left to fail at"
Naomi just continues laughing and clapping her hands and even crying tears of joy, but then the scene changes and we see the real Naomi, staring directly at the viewer, with eyes that are completely black and her face shows no emotions at all.
"So won't you crush me already?"
The video ends.
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