#i saw an interpretation of them that they've been through a lot

[lycorisicecream]

SO THAT NO ONE WILL SUFFER

[the-valiant-valkyrie]

i feel like we don't talk abt any of the tooltip quotes very often but out of all of one this one makes me particularly curious because it implies at least an assumption that some form of 'perma-death' is potentially possible within the constant. or maybe even that something might happen to ghosts who stay ghosts for too long? whatever 'lost' is meant to imply, it can't be talking about turning into a ghost, or they wouldn't be using the word 'nearly', since you can only use telltales as a ghost.

i mean, not like wilson has ever been known for knowing much about what hes talking about. especially when it doesn't pertain to science. but its less about what actually is and isnt possible and more about what they think is potentially possible thats of real interest here

[mogamuncher]

Heeey I'm back! It's finally time for the full Cakeverse analysis gang!

Ok, so, for a refresher:

There's the Forks, the Cakes and the Plates (normal people), and it goes like this:

Plates are just normal people, the majority of the world population, nothing new here.

Forks: Can't taste and sometimes can't smell either, sometimes they used be able to taste but lost it with age; either way, they can only ever taste cakes.

Cakes: Basically normal people except that they're delicious, everything from them (flesh, tears, saliva, etc) tastes like cake (or other foods if you want). You can't tell who's a cake or not unless you're a Fork that's tasting them in some way.

Now, I have to add some stuff that's really interesting and that the og author said, that we'll be getting into today.

• Forks go absolutely bat shit insane when they taste the Cakes most of the time, that can lead to a lot of things, cannibalism, sex, or (if you're cultured) both.

• Both Cakes and Forks suffer from their own societal plights. Cakes die a lot, and Forks when discovered are instantly pinned as murderers, criminals and perverts, even if they haven't done anything wrong yet.

• Cakes can derail a Fork's entire life, and Forks are like sin and temptation to Cakes.

Now, I want to talk about these because they absolutely fucking vexed me and now I want to make this all of y'all's problem.

「The First Taste」

It's essentially a common rule as said by the author that the Forks go insane after feeling the taste of a Cake, now, let's talk about: Why?

See, Cakeverse is technically an Au based from the likes of Omegaverse, which you can see by the structure being similar to Alpha/Beta/Omega with the three types of people out there. But, in ABO the Alphas going insane is due to a specific event, heats, which are there specifically for reproduction and are said to bring out animal instincts out of people's control, while Forks are based on simply taste, food, and not something as biological.

Of course it's up to the individual writer to an extent, but my interpretation of why Forks lose it when they taste Cakes is more psychological when compared to Alphas in the Omegaverse.

Imagine that you are completely unable to see color, never once have you seen one, you grew up hearing all about how wonderful colors are, you saw others compliment the colors of several works of art, you heard all about the colors of the world around you, but all that you see is beige and grey. Now, imagine that one day you bump into someone, and suddenly you're able to see all the colors, for the first time ever in your life, you can finally experience blue skies and green grass, you can see the same way the rest of the world sees, something that was fundamentally missing from you is finally gifted to you by this stranger on a silver tray.

You're finally complete.

That's the reality of what Forks go through, years of eating tasteless food, seeing people enjoy food wholeheartedly and rant about the tastes, hearing about the differences between expensive food and cheap food, and then suddenly finally tasting cake. Of course they go insane and fixate on it, it's like the final puzzle piece finally sliding into place, something that they've been missing this whole time being manifested with only a taste.

Before, eating was a chore, something simply to survive there was no joy in it, no fun to be found in desserts or snacks, but with only a single kiss the Fork finally feels what it is like to crave food, to want food for the taste.

Cakeverse in nature is oddly psychological, playing with the concept of taking away something extremely core to the human experience, taste. It's inherent and everyone has it, you'd probably feel like a freak of nature if you didn't have something while everyone else has, right?

That's what Cakes bring Forks; normalcy, joy and purpose, it's basically like a shot of endorphins all at once straight into your bloodstream, there's a good chance it'd hit like a truck and fuck you up majorly.

Forks acting rashly probably looks different than when Alphas do the same, because the motive is inherently different, but the desperation is arguably more raw.

A lot can be written on what that reaction would be:

Immediately trying to taste the Cake (kissing, licking, biting), trying to play cool only to strike later (potential kidnapping, manipulation, planning and scheming in general), the Fork can try to resist temptation or maybe the Cake can notice the extreme reaction and run away, maybe the Cake can instigate and bait the Fork to take a bite.

It could lead to fluff, to relationships starting, relationships ending, it could smut, it could be gory cannibalism, hell, it could be both.

Either way, the sheer amount of character study that could be made out of this tidbit alone is insane, and the story concepts don't stop there!

「We Do, In Fact, Live In a Society」

Cakes don't know who they are until it's too late, but I can imagine that in society they'd be treated with a lot of extra care if they are known beforehand, as they are constantly in risk of dying.

Imagine that they'd also be majorly babyfied, the "nooo poor babies that can't do anything wrong, poor helpless and weak Cakes, they clearly can't take care of themselves, they're so vulnerable, don't worry I'll speak for you to protect your honor" would be insane. Any Cake that consensually and willingly gets with a Fork will be doubted if they truly wanted to do it, think nosy people pulling them aside to ask if they're ok and pressing to see if they're abused, think people immediately thinking that Cakes can't consent to anything with a Fork on principle despite them being grown adults.

Online discourse would definitely have people saying "Cakes are minor coded" or some shit, mark my words.

While Forks would be instantly persecuted for everything. Because of something they didn't choose, that was inherited at birth, they now are fully seem as murderers, kidnappers, rapists and just the lowest of the low. People will gossip, people will get defensive, people will cower any time you slightly raise your voice, you're seen as a predator, treated no different than a wild bear. To society at large, you're an unruly dog, and all eyes will be on you forever, watching, waiting for the day that you take a bite.

In a sense, it's almost like any Forks that do commit crimes instantly have a justification to do so, it's expected, really, you're a Fork, of course you'd snap one day. It's both maligned and normalized, everyone expects it and it almost gives Forks a reason to do so. Forever a self fulfilling prophecy.

Now I'm sorry that I'll keep bringing the Omegaverse up, it's just that it's really handy for comparison, but I find it fascinating that in a way, the societal effects of this are a mish mesh of the societal views seen in ABO, but like, in a way that doesn't make me want to vomit.

Can I be so fr with you guys right now? I don't like the societal parts of the Omegaverse, ever since I was a kid in the early hay days of the internet, that always made me uncomfortable, and it's also a bit lazy in a way. The problems in society with the Omegaverse are basically just Sexism, it's misogyny with mpreg, and a lot of fics end up feeling like a Handmaiden's Tale with mpreg. Replace Alphas with men and Omegas with Women and you get the Omegaverse, though it gets a bit interesting since there technically is a built-in "fuck or die" and aphrodisiac system with heats/ruts, but very few writers do something interesting with it.

My problem is that it's always either uncomfortable or outright boring, very little fics do it well and most of the time authors simply choose to side step it altogether, which I completely understand and actually prefer at this point.

I bring all this up because Cakeverse actually brings a lot of interesting concepts up in it's consequences on the world at large, the nature of Forks and Cakes mirrors a lot of real life concepts, but leaves enough fantastical elements that there's still intrigue in what could be explored and seem from authors writing certain details of it.

Would there be Cake support groups? Would there be Fork rights activists? Would there be people who are both Forks and Cakes, like a hybrid type? What are different relationship types seen as in the eyes of society as a whole?

It's all so complicated and the problems are different between the both of them, also, they're evenly split, which is a breath of fresh air.

Now, it's time to get even deeper into this, what are exactly Forks and Cakes relationship with each other like?

「Would You Still Love Me If I Was Cake?」

According to the author, Cakes can derail a Fork's life and Forks are temptation to Cakes. Now, why is that?

Imagine you're a Fork, living your life trying to do what you can with what's been handed to you, probably being discriminated against if you haven't been able to hide it well, when suddenly you taste someone (kiss or by accident, like a shared water bottle), and next thing you know you lose your mind. Your entire world falls apart, thoughts of dreams, future, your own sense of morality, it all melts away like sugar in water because you just experienced heaven and now it's all you can think about.

Someone completely normal beforehand, suddenly driven to obsession with just one moment, an entire life detailed into the unknown because they just had a taste of cake, thoughts being all about one person and their taste, the inability to stop even you're desperate to do so. It's madness, and almost like a tragedy, doomed by their own personal narrative of Fork meets Cake, the Forks turns into a starving beast whether they want to or not.

But Cakes? Imagine you have someone you love, and they want you so badly it drives them mad, imagine kissing the same lips that want to be stained with your taste, imagine putting yourself in the way of jaws that any of these days can close down on you and swallow you whole. You're constantly in contact with someone that could just straight up eat you, consume you whole and leave nothing behind, but your heart aches for them, you present yourself in a silver platter again and again.

Maybe you want to be eaten, to be consumed. Maybe you like being wanted, maybe you enjoy providing something to to others, you made them so happy that it doesn't even matter to you that they are taking chunks out of you, you'll gladly let yourself be torn apart if it means someone else is satisfied.

It's all about the usage of "Cannibalism as a Metaphor for Love™", it's all about loving someone but constantly wanting to eat them into non-existence, it's about to struggle between your brain heart and stomach.

It's about having your cake and eating it too.

The themes, the metaphors, the opportunities are endless and frankly I'm driving myself insane just imagining all of it, the angst also would be utterly fucking insane, imagine you live someone and you eat them, wouldn't you be upset? You loved them and you killed them yourself, with your own hands, their taste is on your lips and you licked your plate clean.

I'm screaming and crying and throwing up as we speak, the number of things you can do here are endless, soooo. . . Let's talk about some of my ideas!

「All My Fanfiction Titles Are Just Songs」

Last post I basically tagged a bunch of fandoms that I wish would use this trope (I'll also be doing that with this post), so now I'm going to showing some of the ideas I had for this AU that I might or might not write in the future, all of which you guys are totally free to use as prompts as well (just tag me on them lmao)

So, going ship by ship:

「Loveit」: Dead Plate fanfic, Vincent x Rody, Fork!Vincent and Cake!Rody. I imagine that the moment Vincent finds out is during the Best Served Hot ending, after biting Rody's ear, his reaction would show instantly on his face and Rody would notice right away. After that it can lead to a lot of things, fighting, smut and cannibalism galore, their relationship would only get more complicated after such a discovery. Hell, you can even have Vincent find out earlier, if you truly want more juicy drama, maybe Vincent will attempt to make Rody into the meal instead of Mason this time? For funsies you could even reverse it, Rody as a Fork would be fascinating to see, him bonding with Vincent that he also can't taste anything, only for him to find out later that he can taste Vincent himself, holy shit the intrigue.

「Eat You」: Death Note, Lawlight, Fork!Light and Cake!L. Imagine Light both having to hide the fact that he's Kira, but also having to hide the fact that he's a Fork, imagine the never leaving stain that being a Fork would be on his own self-perception of perfection, imagine the so called god that punishes criminals also being considered a criminal by default in society's eyes if he's ever found out. Kira selling out his own kind because most criminals would likely be Forks (whether they were rightfully convicted or not), and then comes in L, a detective, a nuisance, Light's equal and a Cake. Maybe Light would find that out later on, maybe while they're playing as friends in college or while chained together, and now L had effortlessly thrown another wrench in his life yet again by default, like they're meant to be opposed by fate itself, where Kira is a Fork L is a Cake. L would likely goad Light on, trying to bait Kira out, by any means necessary, even if it means being eaten.

「Eat You Piece by Piece」: Hear me out, Batjokes. Fork!Bruce having to hold himself back from breaking his own morals due to finding out Joker is a Cake, Fork!Joker only getting deeper into his Batman obsession after tasting a Cake!Batman, Both Forks bonded by not having taste, maybe both are Forks that differ on how they react to Cakes (Joker regularly eating them while Bruce retains his morals and chooses to not hurt them), maybe both Cakes that got here because they were almost eaten (different Batman and Joker origin stories?). The opportunities are all intriguing and promptly end in bloodshed, expect angst and discussions of what is moral, also just so much angst holy shit this shit hurts.

「I Eat Boys Up」: Dungeon Meshi, Labru, Fork!Laios and Cake!Labru. I'm thinking post canon by accident, maybe something like sharing utensils, and I'm going to be so fr with you right now, this story coming from me would be a lot of romanticism through food metaphors and unending smut, feral Laios is my equivalent of heroin and I could imagine him describing Kabru's taste in detail to him while eating him out. But if smut isn't your jam, exploring how Laios and his monster obsession, especially in the form of food, as someone who can't taste would be intriguing, in a story so closely tied to food, you have to wonder how it would all change if the main character couldn't even taste. Also, I doubt Kabru would take the knowledge of him being essentially prey well, so there's that bag of worms to go into if you want.

「Blame Gluttony」: This one is purely self indulgent but like, Re:Zero with any ship, Cake! Subaru and Fork!anyone else. Imagine Subaru's world doesn't have this Cakeverse nonsense at all, but the world he's transported to has, imagine how scary it would be that one loop he suddenly finds out that he's essentially universal prey here (maybe in the second loop with Elsa), imagine the weight of all the things that already are trying to kill him along with the fact that he's also got a new thing to worry about? Maybe instead of just the rabbit loop, there's now multiple loops where Subaru is eaten alive, maybe there's loops where his dear friends themselves are eating him. Can you imagine if Emilia was a Fork? If he found out after the kiss of death and she commented on the taste of his lips as he was dying, if it came up again after their kiss, Subaru having to tackle with his love and heart belonging to someone that would one day eat him whole. Imagine the witch not longer just wants to touch his heart or kiss him, but she also bites him when he tries to tell the secret. Imagine maybe Rem is also a Fork, imagine that his death by her hands also involved her tearing into him chunk by chunk. What if Otto was a Fork, what if Reinhard was one? Seriously all the opportunities are equally traumatizing and I'm living for it!

Honorable mentions include: Persona Shuake and Shuada (Fork!Protags and Cake!Detectives) for the optimal mutual murder extravaganza, Okegom DSP Satanivlis (Fork!Ivlis and Cake!Satanick) for a rare case of role swapping, South Park Kyman (any way works tbh) for mutually assured destruction, Slay the Princess (Fork!Princess and Cake!Birb) because themes, Soukouku (Fork!Dazai and Cake!Chuuya) for making canon even worse than it already is, frankly any investigrave game would be peak here, Hannigram for obvious reasons.

But that's all I have for now, so, what have we learned here?

We learned that: I'm mentally ill and you need to write about the Cakeverse NOW.

[sayuri-of-the-valley]

On how Crowley and Aziraphale felt during the kiss (but mainly Crowley here):

Ok so first, the main idea for this huge meta is that a LOT of us noticed how the music from the kiss scene is similar to the nebula one, right?

Second, a lot of us also correctly noticed the parallels between the kiss and how it was to taste food for the first time for Aziraphale: bc of his reactions, the hand on lips, the similar way MS acted both scenes, the little inhale etc. So how was it for Crowley?

Aziraphale's reaction to the kiss is practically a puzzle to solve on its own, so it's fun to analyse it, but basically, in a few words, Aziraphale kissed Crowley and he discovered he was physically starving for him, longing for him, yearning for him, for his kiss, and he had no idea. Just like with the ox. And now he needs to gorge himself in him but he can't. Great amazing heartbreaking chef's kiss someone give MS an Emmy.

But there's already so much amazing meta out there about Aziraphale x Ox ribs x The Kiss that I want to focus on Crowley here, and on the music.

So back to the music. The song in "Before the Beginning" and the song that plays during The Kiss (I Forgive You + Don't Bother) are so similar. They're not *exactly* the same, but they're totally reminiscent of each other. The viewer is immediately reminded of those chords that played in the opening scene. It's no coincidence that the fandom was talking about this fact only minutes after first watching those final fifteen minutes. This is an obvious intentional choice for storytelling reasons (David Arnold is a genius).

I have no expertise whatsoever when it comes to music, so I asked our friend @otsanda to see if that made sense and not only it does and she explained it, but she also uncovered so much more hidden meaning in all of it (musicians are amazing), so check out her meta about the music that not only serves as evidence to what I'm proposing here but it also has so much more juicy information in it 💖.

Back to the point: WHY thought? Why choose a similar song? Why intentionally COMPOSE a similar song for that moment?

Hear me out. WHAT IF, by reminding the audience of the creation of the nebula, they meant to convey to us that, for Crowley, kissing Aziraphale gave him the same feeling that creating his stars did?

THAT'S what the music is telling us. THAT'S why it makes us remember "Before the Beginning". It may sound cheesy, but Crowley may have literally seen stars when he kissed Aziraphale. He couldn't react accordingly (just like Aziraphale couldn't), bc it was an overwhelming and extremely sad moment (the music is also telling us that) for both of them. They knew it was ending . They were both having a moment of huge revelation that was fated to not come to completion. Crowley was right, it was too late.

It makes sense to show Crowley's feelings through the music, bc he was the one who started the kiss, and also he was wearing sunglasses in that scene, it's different from a character like Aziraphale that has all his million expressions for everyone to see at all times. And they've been doing this ever since s1 with the Queen songs that play in his car or in the background.

So my point is: the same song being used there makes me wonder if kissing Aziraphale finally gave him what he lost. His purpose. What Aziraphale was trying to give back to him by taking him back to heaven. There's no need for Heaven. Just kiss him, Aziraphale, and there he'll find the stars you want to give back to him. There you will one day see that smile on his face you saw Before The Beginning. Neil Gaiman and David Arnold I am in your walls 😭

This is what may lead us to see this happiness in Crowley again (not the action of kissing itself, of course, but what it represents to their relationship, them being together, them being an Us).

As @otsanda said: from the music we can interpret that that moment was a Revelation for them. Almost a religious experience. Crowley found his purpose again. What he'd been missing the whole season (or even his whole life since the Fall, but we've seen him especially depressed this season).

I'm not even getting into the poetry of how one can interpret the parallel to the angel's reaction to the kiss as carnal, and the demon's as religious; that would be another whole essay but let's just agree that it's incredibly beautiful. (Let me be clear that I mean here Aziraphale's reaction is carnal specifically for Crowley, and Crowley's is religious specifically for Aziraphale, not religious as in "worshipping god")

"Do you ever wonder what's the point?" Crowley asked in s2e1. The point, for him, is Aziraphale (if you've seen The Good Place you know what I mean). I hope he figured this out with that kiss, even as heartbreaking as it was. Even if it was a (temporary) separation kiss. (I hope Aziraphale figures this out with time too, that he's more than enough to make Crowley happy, that Crowley doesn't need Heaven, or stars, that Crowley needs him.)

Maybe that's why Crowley didn't leave and kept waiting outside until the very last moment.

Aziraphale and Crowley both bit the apple at the end of s2. There's no turning back from that Knowledge now.

Edit: I just have to add here this brilliant colour analysis of the nebula scene by @halemerry. And it's pointed out that during the nebula formation there's a moment when it looks like two people embracing. And the fact that a similar song is used in the actual Kiss scene I just... I have no words

[higuchisora]

Seeing as they clearly didn't know what the hell to do with Jinx/the political repercussions of her bombing the council in season 2, I'd like to explore the possibilities of how Zaun would've reacted to this that would've made way more sense than what we saw.

1. Jinx becomes an extremely controversial figure.

Few are neutral to her. This would be largely because, outside of knowing she blew up the council, no one actually knows WHY. What were her motives? Were they politically charged? Was she trying to start a war? What exactly was her goal? It was never really stated that she was infamous prior to this, but I recall in season 1 act 2 that when Vi went looking for her, people knew OF Jinx, and that she worked for Silco, but weren't really aware of any further details. So those that are aware of her connection to Silco- who objectively did make many of their lives worse with Shimmer- wouldn't be happy. They'd be scared of what will come next.

Those who don't know/don't care might fill in the blanks with their own guesses, maybe that she's some kind of activist- which would split them further into the subgroups of "Oh fuck the enforcers are gonna kill us and it's her fault" and "Finally, a war!" The second of which I'd argue would actually be a very small group. I could imagine the Jinxers being seen by the rest of Zaun as crazy radicals who don't know what they're getting themselves into/are gonna drag the rest of Zaun into danger. I think it would cause a LOT of infighting. Like a civil war inside another civil war.

How Jinx would handle this would be.... interesting. Especially if the Jinxers start making moves on their own. She never really shows much interest in activism- she works for Silco because he's her new dad, and while she doesn't seem to DISAGREE with his opinions, it doesn't seem she's all that invested in actually working to make it happen beyond just wanting to help her dad. His death seemed to take her interest with it.

Now, they could either lean into this, and make people question her motives/actions because of her clear disinterest, maybe increasing some of the controversy around her (no follow through on her action, letting Zaunites suffer the consequences, etc.), or they could make her actually take a genuine personal interest in it. But that, I think, would take a bigger arc that might be more work for arguably less payoff when considering you'd probably have to change a great deal of her character to do it, especially when you could probably achieve similar plot points/outcomes even without her intentionally becoming a political figurehead.

2. Zaun becomes fractured politically/other "symbols" of Zaun

This can be in tandem with idea 1, actually, but can still be it's own idea. Basically, after the fall of the council, and Silco's death, Zaunites are terrified. They've been run so far by Vander, Silco, and then some vague council-like oligarchy of Chem-Barons, who could be interpreted as functioning like very large gangs. The Chem-Barons have always been around, but with Silco's sudden death (and no one who was primed/expecting to replace him), this leaves a massive power vacuum that the Chem-Barons and smaller gangs are scrambling to come out on top of.

The fear of the unknown and the extreme instability would lead to people desperately throwing their lot in with whoever they think would be a better/less dangerous leader, and by extension, political symbol. Season 2 shows a bunch of new people joining the Firelights. In that case, I can imagine that before long, several new potential leaders surface, even if they didn't expect it. Namely, Ekko, Jinx, and Sevika.

Ekko because as I said, people were apparently coming to his base in droves. They don't tell us Jack shit about the Firelights besides the fact that A) Ekko leads them B) they don't fuck with Silco OR Piltover C) Piltover thinks they're terrorists and D) they look rad as fuck. That being said, considering Ekko's Everything, I think we can all gather a general picture of what the Firelights are about. Plus his cool tree would be a great symbol (@srslylini for the idea) of growth, healing, etc.

Sevika, because those that knew her as Silco's second might be hoping for some kind of stability with her. Even if they didn't like Silco, it's better the enemy you know and all that jazz. They'd feel safer with someone who at least seems to know what they're doing, even if Sevika herself has no interest in becoming a leader. I think some would just naturally gravitate towards who they see as "second in line". This could also be in connection to Jinx, as she could possibly been seen as someone who could "rein" Jinx in (again, most people don't actually KNOW Jinx, they just know OF her and that she worked for Silco and was volatile. Think how Finn referred to her as Silco's "attack dog").

Speaking of Jinx, she'd probably be treated similarly to idea 1. Extremely polarizing. Her followers would be seen as crazy, like she is. They'd be seen as warmongers and/or people who have no idea what they're getting themselves into. They'd basically be seen as the stereotypical "young rebels". The average Zaunite would see the average Jinxer as a young, angry, maybe idealistic radical who doesn't understand the cost of war. I'd argue that, again, they'd probably be the smallest and most controversial group just because most people don't necessarily WANT a war, even if they're willing to fight for it. And the suddenness of the bombing would've scared even some of the rebels who DO want war, because they weren't prepared. It wasn't a PLANNED attack, so both Zaun AND Piltover are basically caught with their pants down, which would also bring some ire from the other Zaunites.

There's another option for a faction I'd like to explore, also thanks to srslylini (thank you icon), but it takes a bit of setting up.

In a hypothetical situation in which Vi did NOT become an enforcer, I think it would happen like this: Vi hangs around in Piltover at first out of guilt/feeling like she has nowhere else to go. She's still not on board with being an enforcer, but she attends the memorial out of a sense of obligation. Her and Caitlyn have a falling out over Caitlyn calling Zaunites "animals", and here is where she storms off and goes back to Zaun, with the final words to Caitlyn that "You Pilties are all the fucking same" (or something to that effect). She's still feeling lost, and so maybe this is where she stumbles around, having maybe a similar pitfighting arc (just not as distraught, more like she's broke and angry and has to pay rent somehow so she might as well get paid to punch someone's face in). Because she's not in a massive spiral, there's unfortunately no emo arc (sad), but the bright side of this is that she's recognizable. I don't think she's FAMOUS, per say, but Babette and Ekko recognized her right off the bat in season 1 (yes you can say Ekko was really close to her, but Babette? C'mon), and considering she was older than Powder when she went off to prison, I don't think it's a stretch to assume her face was a little better-known than her sister's (especially considering she was already going on jobs, and in act 1 she gets into a fight with Deckard who I'm pretty sure knew her name, but not Powder's).

This is to say, I think a lot of the "old heads" knew who she was, especially those who liked Vander. It helps that she tattooed her name on her face LMAO. So I'd imagine she'd show up in the ring, no hair dye no makeup, and eventually after consistently knocking her opponents around and winning every time, she'd become a bit locally famous again- to the point that those same "old heads" who remember her make the connection and come looking. Maybe rumors start swirling, especially once they learn she was gone because she'd been in prison- not unheard of, and probably the first conclusion they drew when they realized she wasn't dead.

So eventually Vander's old followers/younger people who idolized him from their childhood start seeking her out. Sensationalizing her. Asking her what she's planning on doing. Is she taking back the Lanes? Will she get those Chem-Barons under control? What about Jinx? Could she hunt her down, rein her in? Hell, maybe even put her to use? Will you give us our relative safety, our security back?

And Vi, who just wanted to knock some heads around and maybe take a nap in her apartment and cry, is suddenly faced with being "Vander 2.0" and Jinx is the new "Silco 2.0" and all the weight of expectations and legacy and history and literal war and politics are being shoved in her face. She, like Jinx, is now faced with becoming a figurehead when she never wanted to be, which could lead into option 3:

3. A joint approach to Zaun

This would primarily be driven by Sevika even if she wasn't one of the possible leaders, because SOMEONE has to be the responsible adult here and it's certainly not any of these traumatized losers (affectionate). She'd be the glue to keep it all together, the reluctant team mom who WILL make this work because she WILL have Zaun even if she has to die to get it.

This could work with either Jinx and Vi, or Jinx, Vi, and Ekko (I genuinely can't imagine season 2 act 1 Ekko willingly teaming up with season 2 act 1 Jinx AND Sevika without some kind of buffer). Basically, once the other "leader candidates"/political symbols have been established, Sevika would round them up with the intention to use their influence to unite Zaun against Piltover. This would take a LOT of arguing, but ultimately I think she'd be able to get them to shut up and hear her out for a moment. Regardless of how different their beliefs are about what the "ideal Zaun" looks like, they can all agree that Piltover isn't in any of those pictures. She could convince them to set aside their own squabbling for the time being, for the greater good: aka, the independence of Zaun.

At the very least, I think she'd be able to get them to agree that Piltover coming down and hurting Zaunites in revenge shouldn't be ignored, and that they're currently a bigger threat than their fellow Zaunite. So eventually they'd reach some kind of truce: behave like a united front against Piltover, push them out of Zaun, stabilize Zaun, and then worry about tearing each other apart later. And because all of these characters- ALL of them- have shown (prior to season 2) anti-Piltover sentiments, they'd at least be able to agree that enforcers shouldn't be allowed to beat down on their people (especially in this version where Vi has better, more consistent writing lmao).

Of course, Rome wasn't built in a day, so maybe they don't reach a total agreement immediately- maybe they just agree to a ceasefire at first, but still refuse to work together. But once Caitlyn becomes a dictator? Once enforcers start gassing the streets, rounding people up, implementing martial law?

That's when the gloves would come off.

I'd imagine this could also be part of how Vi and Jinx slowly start to repair their relationship. They've got bigger fish to fry, but also, this time their enemy is connected to their own personal conflict with each other. Jinx might ask, "what happened to your enforcer girl? What happened to being a Piltie lapdog?" And Vi would essentially, in perhaps more emotionally constipated words, explain that it wasn't really about Caitlyn, it was about being needed. It was about trying to find Jinx, about trying to stop Silco, about trying to "fix" things, only realize that she couldn't. It was about trying to make things better, but that she realized the person she was trying to do that with didn't actually care. That all she wanted was to make sense of the destruction of her old life, and find meaning in a new one. And I think Jinx, too, in her own emotional constipation, would resonate with that, would understand that. It wouldn't fix things between them, but I think it'd be a start.

It could also help their relationship with Ekko. Since Vi isn't an enforcer this time, and season 1 (the One True Season) showed their sibling relationship, I think her and Ekko's bonding would be more like "reconnecting with an old friend", whereas Jinx and Ekko would have a lot of work to do, too. There'd probably be a bit of a cold war between them for a while, once Ekko agrees to help, because he knows actually talking to her would piss him off. But eventually, through Sevika's manhandling of these three, and being forced to make nice with reluctant-figurehead-Jinx, they'd connect again.

Perhaps part of a plan is for them to develop new technology for Zaun. Whether that's weapons against Piltover (unlikely on Ekko's part I think), or just safety gear/ safer city infrastructure ideas for the betterment of their people, I think eventually they'd figure themselves out, too. He'd see the Powder in her, the part he saw on that bridge, and maybe it would give him the ability to try and understand Jinx. And Jinx would realize that maybe these people in her life DO love her, DO care about her, more than just for what she used to be but for who she is now. And somewhere along the way, they'd be friends again (or they can date IDK or care man I just want them to stop trying to kill each other).

Whatever happens next is so wide in possibility that I can't possibly cover it here so this is where it ends, lol.

[cozycottagetarot]

Random Things About Your Person

From Elle: Pulled This One From The Drafts... wasn't going to post it but maybe there's something useful in it for someone. It's a chill one ✌️

Notes:

Definition of 'Your Person': At this point, I'm not sure how I personally define 'Your Person', so I guess I'm leaving that up to you're interpretation. For now, let's just say someone you'll have an impactful connection with.

Reading Layout: This reading is done in a brain-dump style where the info is just bullet as it came to me and less organised.

Dividers From X

Reading Masterlist | Patreon | Paid Readings -- Open 🥂

PILE 1

This person is such a loving and nurturing person… they could even help heal your inner child. If you want kids then this will transfer over to how they parent and it's very heartwarming.

They give off ethereal vibes. Very in tune with their intuition or have a strong sense of knowing

They could be your 'perfect match'

Someone you 'grow old' with or could envision yourself 'growing old' with

They could have a diverse friend group or their friend group is very important to them.

Night and the moon could be super important. They could be born at night, you meet at night or you communicate with them through your dreams.

They’re very abundant. Regardless of how much money they make, they just have such a rich life that you can see they are without want.

They’re very calming. They could calm your nervous system.

You’re going to have a very passionate/intimate relationship

There could be a 1-3 year age difference between you two (this is more so if you're interested in age differences... I don't why but I ended up reading those here)

They’re trustworthy and reliable

A very strong, gentle and protective person

PILE 2

Could live by the water or be very emotional.

They’re your heart, your everything. It might be hard to deny your attraction to them… but not physically. More so like a knowing once you meet this person that they play a significant role in your story

'Lionheart'... Regal energy

Lots to learn from them... So much that I actually wrote it twice lol

Kind of exotic… very beautiful

They don’t bark, they bite

They're someone who makes things happen

Very quiet…. It makes me think of something that I saw that goes along the lines of "You're harmless, not peaceful. If you’re peaceful you’re capable of great violence" or something like that. This is not meant to say that they're this aggressive/violent person. I feel like it's quite the opposite really.

I kept seeing this image of coming across a wounded animal, a wolf to be exact. You can see they've been in a fight/injured and are on guard. They're not going to hurt you but you can see that they are alert and will attack if you show you mean harm. A case of survival...

I feel like they hold the key to your happiness in a way

Something angelic about them… it could be their mind too

3 to a 8 year age difference (this is more so if you're interested in age differences… I don't why but I ended up reading those here)

An unexpected meeting

Beauty in darkness. Easily stressed or anxious. It feels very tense compared to pile/group 1

They’ve overcome a lot… flexible at a cost

One of you is further ahead in life than the other

Protective of their energy. Loyal, ambitious.

Overstimulated frequently or easily

PILE 3

They may be big on naps. Like napping together is their love language

They may be a little weird

Grumpy x sunshine vibes

Whimsy or connected to their inner child, youthful vibe

Very calm and peaceful

You two could be polar opposites but you work well together.

Their appearance can change a lot... I think more so through them willingly changing it. Really, don't be alarmed if you come home and they look completely different. I feel like they're mischievous and would get a kick out of your reaction

You could have a 2-6 year age difference (this is more so if you're interested in age differences… I don't why but I ended up reading those here)

They've managed to maintain a positive disposition despite the hardships they've faced

They could give off a met you in a past life vibe

Either good at helping you relax or they easily get stressed out but then can just as easily relax themself

Could be very creative or artistic... muse energy

Could like to take their space/time alone.... but could get lost in their head if not careful.

"Living in alignment" could be important to them... they may have a set of personal values or principles they really like to adhere to.

[bisonaari]

I don't know if it has been done here before because I don't look around, but I have thoughts about the album and I need to share them with someone or I'm gonna go INSANE

Put your tinfoil hats on for my analysis of everything around People's Champion under the cut (probably people have talked about it and I'm just gonna repeat stuff, be warned)

So I've been a bit insane about People's Champion and I've started to think super hard about the order of the songs. I think, in my opinion, that the songs are arranged to tell the story of his life and career from right after UMK 2023 until now.

Ready To Go: This is where we start. Just post UMK, people didn't fully believe in him yet. I remember people saying "oh yeah sweden is sending someone who already won esc, but we're sending… Jere from Vantaa????". Hence the chorus, where people want to see him fail. But he's ready, he knows that he can do it. He's gonna go through and give his EVERYTHING. The mood of the song is really hopeful, with big intense guitar.

Cha Cha Cha: Do I need to explain this one here? I'm still not over this hahaha, I don't think I'll ever be. But this is where events take a turn for him, hence why it's so early in the album, even though it's his biggest song. Because he has so much to say after Cha Cha Cha happened.

Takavoltti: This is where things start to fuck up. He doesn't want to stay on his butt now that he has achieved celebrity and starts to take on so many, many gigs. A lot of us were worried for his health when we saw how much he was performing during summer 2023. But in the song, he says that he only saw opportunities and he just had to continue to take them. It takes a toll on his body. It starts to hurt, but he goes through it. That mad man. Also a couple of times in the song, people ask him to do stuff. Like a little circus monkey. And he just ends up hurting himself.

Ruoska: The bad comments start to really get to him. In the video, Erika and Käärijä are both dressed and perform as aliens. They've completely been striped of their humanity. They're just gimmicks that you can insult anonymously on the internet. Who cares anyway, they chose this life for themselves. It's their own fault. While the previous song was still a bit on the funny side, this one digs straight into the hardships that they feel. There is no more humour, only pain.

Kot Kot: He's still doing too much. While everyone has gone home, he's still drunk on the dancefloor, trying to reach out for friends who were wiser and left. He's being dragged out of there against his will, because he's so stubborn. Pushing through isn't working anymore, and people around him aren't letting him hurt himself anymore.

Skit: An appointment with a therapist. Käärijä is being cut off CONSTANTLY by the therapist, who can't see Jere as a patient. He sees Käärijä, the star. Even when he's trying to seek help, he isn't listened to. Because he's not human anymore for people at that point.

Autiomaa: Käärijä is breaking down. In the video, the therapist from the skit is taking a picture of him during the appointment. The feeling of loneliness and emptiness is around him all the time, omnipresent, eating him alive. He just wants someone to see him as a person, to listen to him, to help him with the void.

Sex=Money: At that point, you know, might as well. You're not human anymore, who cares. Why not try to get some money selling your ass. Who's gonna care anyway, sex sells and that's what people want to see, right? He made so much money on onlyfans, the press is acting shocked that he would even do that. The song is back to a bit light-hearted. My interpretation would be that he just finds the situation ridiculous, and that's why we're getting humour back in the lyrics!

Bananas: I'm not sure how this one fits in my theory, but we're SO back for humour. Kääriä is getting better. I think that in this one he found resolve to just continue going on. He's annoyed because people still only see him as an object, but he has to go through and live his life. Show must go on.

Huhhuhhei: Quite interesting to put a love song in this timeline in the story. But I think it's because he wants to live in the present, and not in anxieties from the past and the fear of the future. He doesn't know if the person sharing his bed is still gonna be there in the morning, but whatever, it's not important. Tonight, they're his and that's what matters. Thinking of tomorrow isn't gonna bring anything good.

It's Crazy It's Party: He's still stuck in the parties, they're around him all the time. He's still doing a million gigs in Finland and in europe. And just as the song is quite close to Cha Cha Cha, he's back at the beginning, the situation hasn't changed much. But this time, by the end, he goes to the party again, by his own will. And this time, he has people around to party with him.

People's Champion: We're back babes. This song is a love letter to people who love him. This is a great wrap around for this album. He's just remembering how everything went, from the start, until this point. Going through every point and emotion we've been through with him during the album. But in the end, he IS people's champion. He did it. He made it. And even with all the hardships, he's with us, when our hearts all sing together. The last line of this album that isn't a chorus is "Thank you everybody, I love you".

What a journey

So something that you have noticed that I've talked a lot is how people don't recognize Käärijä's humanity. He has been made into a kind of creature of gimmicks. You can ask him everything, you can say everything to his face. Whatever, he's a celebrity, not a person.

And this is where that cover is a GENIUS move.

On the cover, there are NO gimmicks. No bolero, no bowl cut, no bare chest with a tattoo. Just his face. You HAVE to watch his face, there is nothing else to see. You have to watch his emotion being raw, he's crying. This is not a pleasant cover to see. And I know, I've had spotify open on his face all day friday while I was working, it felt awful. But it makes you do something.

You have to acknowledge his humanity. And there's no way around it.

I love Käärijä

[cowboycannibalism]

Bullet with Butterfly Wings, Smashing Pumpkins// Saw 2004// Caged Rat, Soul Asylum// The Jig Is Up, Ice Nine Kills// Rats!Rats!Rats!, Deftones// Hatchet, Movements

I know there's heavy association of Adam with the dog motif (which I love) but I swear I've heard Bullet with Butterfly Wings on the radio way too many times during the last month while thinking about Saw for it to be a coincidence

Rats symbolize impoverishment, disease, the lowest of low.

"He's not a cop. He's a bottom feeder, just like you."

Jigsaw calls him angry and apathetic, and we'll be honest here, he is on the surface. He calls his apartment a shithole, he knows his job is shitty but it keeps him fed, and he's just dragging himself through life because he's pretty much already convinced himself this is as good as its going to get.

But here's the other thing about rats: they will do anything to try to survive. Sometimes, that means just doing what they've been conditioned to do by the world around them.

Have you ever seen a rat backed into a corner? or stuck in a trap? they will scream and thrash violently to try and free themselves.

From the moment he wakes up in the tub, Adam is moving. Throughout the movie, he has a hard time staying still, trying to escape, trying to survive. He is loud and frantic. Even though he is pessimistic about life, he wants to live.

also, to swing back around to the Smashing Pumpkins lyrics in particular, I thought a lot about how Adam mentions his ex, thinking he was "too angry." If you've dug into that song a little, it's interpreted in a lot of ways but a common one is oppression and being stuck in a situation/world where you're aware of escape but incapable of it. Adam knows he should appreciate life more, but what's the point when he lives the way that he does and nothing seems to ever get better? Anger feels like the only option and honestly sometimes it is.

(not to get too political or whatever, but if we never get angry enough to do anything, nothing will ever change. Don't let anyone tell you that emotions don't belong in politics/social issues because that's a fucking stupid take.)

[foone]

hiya foone! i'm working on the surprisingly lofty task of modding barbie fashion show 2004 and i've been told twice to ask if you have any leads on how to get to the game files. i don't know how to simplify it because i'm so in over my head at this point. here is the thread

okay so here's how you reverse engineer an arbitrary game, the quick version:

Research. Who made the game? what else did they make? Maybe they made a game with the same engine, and someone already figured out that one? (not that I saw on a quick look, but you may be able to dig deeper) Also, look in the game files. There's a PowerRender.dll and a sipEngine.bc file. Nothing for sipEngine, but PowerRender has a hit on the internet archive, maybe that download includes some info on how it encodes files?

Look at the files (with a hex editor, like HxD). KAR files seem to be the main storage mechanism, and they've got a RIFF header. RIFF is a standard, though they're not using it exactly. But this might help. Another thing you can spot in the KAR files is a bunch of english strings (CreditsTb.kar is lousy with them). That's a good sign: it means the files aren't compressed, so you don't have to figure out the compression method.

Static analysis of the EXE. Get Ghidra and load up the EXE. Find where it opens files (CreateFileA/CreateFileW on windows), trace back from there. Check the strings. Hey look, function FUN_004e6260 is called with "KAResource.kar". so FUN_004e6260 is probably a function to load arbitrary resource files. Dig through that, figure out how it works.

Dynamic analysis of the EXE. Stick it in a debugger and see what it does. Set a breakpoint on CreateFileA/W and follow the execution. I don't have a good recommendation for what tool to use here, I'm from the past. I've used Ollydbg a lot but it hasn't been updated in 9 years.

Hijack the EXE and make it do your work for you. One thing I noticed while looking around was references to Python. This game apparently embeds a python interpreter, version 2.2. Maybe you can find where it loads the code from, or inject your own code?

Anyway those are some introductory ideas. feel free to ask any follow-up questions, but this hopefully gives you some idea of where to start?

Good luck!

[adultish-momma]

Rose Thorns

Fighting monsters hits a lot different when the monster wears a face you know.

Funny how hard it is to break the cycle.

(Or the fic about Riddle's Overblot and the aftermath of that fight)

Warings!: gore, blood, violence, injury, near death experiences, parental abuse, controlling parental figure.

A/N: I found most of this draft in my phone notes app, so here I am bringing it to light. This one is a bit darker, but it's a scene I've had visualized for years now and needed to finally put down in writing. Please mind the trigger warnings. Again, this is a fic specifically about Riddle's Overblot and his Trauma Dump(tm) chapter, so if any of those scenes bother you in the offical game, do yourself a favor and skip this one.

And as always, if you think I've missed a warning, please let me know. Thank you!

They say that when you're knocking on death's door, the world looses its colors. Life quite literally seems to bleed out of everything you can see, leaving a grayscale mockery in its wake. There's probably a scientific reason for it, something to do with "primary functions". Some people wax poetic about the experience, weaving romantic words to paint a bleak moment with some measure of sense. There's lots of different interpretations of what goes on behind this phenomenon, this almost universal experience.

The rose garden had fallen into an ashy wasteland, grays and whites and blacks interrupted only by splashes of crimson red. Riddle's red hair, his glowing red eye, and the roses dripping with a suspicious red liquid. (The stench of copper and decay did little to disguise what that liquid could be). Even the Heartslabyul students that stayed behind to help knock some sense into their wayward leader were slowly draining of color, the looming shadow of the ink monster steadily darkening their bright visages.

Yuu wondered if the world looking so gray was new to Riddle, or if this is how his black and white upbringing had always altered his perception of the way things were.

The prefect wasn't supposed to be here. Crowley had personally escorted (read: dragged) them out in the initial wave of evacuation from the Heartslabyul dimension. But with so much panic going on, it was easy to slip back through the mirror. Easy to fight upstream through the crowd to return to the fight. All they had to think about was who was left behind, and suddenly returning to fight an impossible fight was an easy decision.

They thought of Trey and Cater, fighting for the life of their friend, two upperclassmen who accepted this random magicless student and monstrous feline (no matter what their motives might have been). They thought of Ace, Deuce, and Grim, facing yet another monster, this time with a face they recognized, with a face they respected. They thought of Riddle, a tyrant born from only knowing abusive love, angry and hurting and dying.

Choosing to come back and help was easy. What was hard was trying to figure out how to help.

The monster behind the House Warden roared, solidifying its inky shape the longer it fed on Riddle's magic. It was almost as if the giant caricature of the Queen of Hearts was using Riddle Rosehearts as a conduit for its own power. Wait... magical conduit... your magestone completely tainted with blot...

Holy shit his magestone.

The Ramshackle Prefect frantically searched the Overblotted form of the Heartslabyul Dorm Leader with their eyes, hoping to easily spot the stone. No such luck. They turned their gaze to their friends, hoping to let somebody know this battle changing, tide turing information. That's when they saw him.

Grim, lying haphazardly on the edge of the battlefield. Rosehearts must have flung him. His blue flames were flickering, small tendrils of blue slowly turning gray. He looked so unlike the lively character they've been rooming with the past week, now he looked small, vulnerable, fragile.

The flame in one of Grim's ears snuffs out.

They need to act. Now.

There's no thought behind Yuu's next move, not really, there's no time. People are going to die. And if Riddle Rosehearts lives to see tomorrow, he's going to live with being a murderer if they don't do something right exactly the fuck now.

Riddle had been defending himself from the mages in the garden. You know, the people who posed an actual threat to him. He never even registed the prefect on the sidelines. The red-head was not expecting to get physically tackled from his blindside.

Yuu is desperately trying to pin the very dangerous mage beneath them while simultaneously searching for his magestone. Ink coils around the boy, tightly constricting around his ribcage. Almost like a corset. And something pulses and glows just beneath the faux corset. They have their fingers reaching, pushing past all that insidious black and-

A scream rips from Yuu's throat, pain searing through their left thigh, and the previously grayscale world implodes with color.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yuu has been having some strange dreams ever since they've arrived in Twisted Wonderland, but this one has to take the cake.

They watch as if through a sepia-tinted screen Riddle Rosehearts grow up under his mother's watchful eye. They see the moment he meets Trey and Chenya. It's almost like a movie, it even sounds as if Riddle is narrating his tragic backstory.

Something in them sparks as Riddle's mother berates him for eating that strawberry tart. Maybe it's just her tone, or the look on Riddle's face, or heck maybe it has something to do with their own shrouded past in their old world, but they can't just passively watch anymore.

"Shut up!" The words echo in the dreamspace, loud and commanding. Both mother and son pause, bewilderment taking over their faces. The voice of the Riddle they know now even quiets, and as the prefect steps in front of the young boy, everything in the memory comes to a standstill.

The Ramshackle Prefect begins arguing with Dr. Rosehearts, snarling and ferocious in their pursuit to protect the young Riddle of this realm. And the real Riddle? He's watching this all. He's watching how Yuu keeps physically blocking his mother from coming any nearer to his younger self. He's watching as the magicless student that publically humiliated him earlier that week, humilitaed him because they were able to keep their cool when he was not, he watches as they lose their composure. He hears them when they say:

"Rules are meant to keep people safe! But this? This is about control and abuse. It doesn't help Riddle, all it does is turn you into a monster."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Riddle wakes up with a start, eyes flying open and darting, hands twitching like he's looking for something.

"Riddle!!" Trey appears in his line of sight, breathless and shaking but looking relieved. Cater's bright orange hair also pops into view, but this upperclassman still looks stressed, looking between his House Warden and something over Trey's shoulder.

"Your back," Trey says, pressing hands against the sophmore's body to make sure he was, in fact, alright. "We thought you might never wake up."

"Wha-"

"Hench-human come on! This isn't funny anymore!"

"Shit this is so much blood, fuck my jacket's soaked through."

"Move over, we have to apply pressure to both ends of the wound."

"No shit Juice, but there's a fucking hole through their leg -"

"WAKE UP YUU! Please, please, please wake up"

Riddle doesn't want to look, doesn't want to see the carnage. He still sees them as they were in his dream-memory, strong and sturdy, able to withstand his biggest fear without a second thought.

But this is Yuu, his Yuu. So he turns around, because he needs to see them with his own eyes.

What he sees makes him want to vomit.

Ace and Deuce are crouched by the prefect's legs, the boys' jackets wrapped tight around Yuu's right leg. Jackets that are now more red than white. Grim is frantically pawing at Yuu's face, tears soaking into his fur. And Yuu?

Yuu is pale, paler than they've ever been. Lips turning blue. Their chest is expanding, thank the Seven, but just barely, and not as often as it should be. And shattered on the ground around them, some shards still lodged in their closed fist, is Riddle's black magestone.

Riddle watches, numb to everything around him. Eyes fixed on his broken magestone. He doesn't notice Trey trying to talk to him, doesn't register Ace screaming at him, he only comes back to when Cater loads Yuu up on his broom and takes off.

Riddle picks up on of the shards left behind, black, nasty, angry magic still faintly pulsing from the stone. Magic that almost killed him today. Anger that has been killing him his whole life.

Yuu saved him today, in more ways than one.

Riddle pockets the shard, placing it in his breast pocket, right above his still aching heart. A reminder of their sacrifice. A reminder to earn their sacrifice when they wake up.

And a reminder to look into all those Heartslabyul rules and maybe, just maybe, update them. Afterall, rules are there to keep those he loves safe.

[katyspersonal]

Alright Suspiciously Cheerful Katy, for that ask meme, I want THOTS on MARIKA plzzzzzz

Look at her fabulous hair ffs

THOTS on Marika, you say......

( Asks from this ( x ) meme)

Favorite thing about them:

It is really hard to point out something concrete! She is a very complex and well-written character, who has done a lot of bad and a lot of good, not to mention grandiose presence in the lore and worldbuilding! She appeared very cold and cruel through her words passed along and actions that we've learned about, but then there has also always been fixation on life, light, bounty and prosperity! I struggle to find a compromise between her war criminal oppressor side and her striving to create a warm heaven for self and others side! But maybe that's the point; big, strong, legendary, impactful figures in history always did BOTH bad and good, but become immortalised in history as just one of these dualities! When shaping history is always both creating and destroying! This is how 'shaping' works!

^^^ I like that she gives people a choice! Just like an actual idea of 'God' without being distorted; you have safety, love and purpose if you cooperate and you can choose struggle without any guidance if you want to! That some people can interpret as that "serve in heaven rule in hell" shit

^^^ I also like that she encouraged people that put faith in her to actually think! This is basically encouraging Fundamentalism which is "scholarship in all but name", but she doesn't want people to just blindly follow; she wants them to understand WHY they'd follow!

But I think above all, I like her tragedy of failing to build this perfect world and how it ends. I talked just recently about it in the post ( x ) about what was it that Gideon saw in "her will" that made him turn against everything prior, but in short: she wanted to keep the world in the state of permanent disarray, just as long as it doesn't recover and perpetuate the Golden Order.

The thing about a new Lord coming to her to be her consort and thus fixing everything? That's what Two Fingers had everyone believe and wanted, not her. :p She probably knew that she can't die by Shattering nor by a hand of a human, though maybe left a hope someone will find a way by urging Hewg to keep striving for a god-slaying weapon. But if she, and thus, Elden Ring, can't be killed, people can just stay away from it forever. That Gideon understood and we didn't and he deserves more credit for it fdshfdh

I compare her with Gwyn often, as they are the same trope of Fromsoft character: a divinity that tried to build a better world yet did a lot of evil to accomplish it and it was, tragically, corrupt by good intentions! But she did one thing he didn't: she was smart enough to know where it was going and oppose perpetuating cycle! Gwyn sacrificed himself to reignite what he gave to the world, Marika sacrificed herself to undo it! I know many people dislike this trope, as "the bad guy gets redeemed by sacrifice instead of doing a harder thing of staying alive and FIXING things they've done!", which is valid! But here it is not necessarily given as a noble act that "redeems" her, nor exposed as "cowardly" act! The narration allows us to interpret it however we want, but the real thing here: it is a human act. It was not rational or wise, but it sure was full of remorse

Basically I think I want to say, for a human, she made a pretty great God all things considered, because she was thinking about world and future and people, not just self.

Least favorite thing about them:

Her playing karma ping-pong with Hornsent and alike, for the lack of better term. 🙄 I believe that Omen curse was a direct result of the Crusade! Not even just because Grandam mentions it, it can always be a localisation error! But because it is logical: wraits, who are spirits of the dead mind you, haunting Omens, are horned! Like, yes, sure, her cruelty to the last Fire Giant and all blahblahblah, but girl what is this Omen Twins situation? They are your own children! They, and other Omens, already suffer with horrifying nightmares paying for YOUR sins, don't make it worse by either isolating them or encouraging "healing" them with heavy lethal rate procedure!

Betrayal means she was a trusted figure for them! As in, she held the power and influence enough to potentially help to gradually rid Hornsent culture of dangerous beliefs and practices! Like integrate them a bit more in the population under Erdtree that is largerly hornless, help them to see nobody is more or less divine, all that.. The cycle could have ended with HER! But she chose the grief and pain over healing (and Messmer probably amplified it, Crow I know you're dying to post that serpent theme is not incidental, you are not slick!!!)

She could have ended all this, she had the power! Why Ancient Dragons could have it but not them? We all know why: personal trauma. And yes, this is so sad, and so realistic, and I love this WRITING, but I can ALSO judge a character! Though, her actions ricocheting into whole Vengeance-Seeking Hornsent NPC's character was ALSO a good writing... argh

Favorite line:

"Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..."

I am still not sure what is the context! Was it something she said upon already deciding on the Shattering, as foreshadowing for what infights will unravel? Or her mother skills were Just Like That, as she viewed her children first of all as tools of building a better world and being helpful powers to it, not as those living just for the heck of it? Silly, but the latter interpretation is basically a problem that existed in Disney's movie Encanto, where Alma would find a use for community in all family members with special powers but neglected the one born without any xD Anyways, badass quote no matter what was the context for it!

brOTP:

Does..... does Marika have friends? Many are either her family in one way or another or her lovers. xD I think Hewg qualifies the best, as wild as it sounds; Misbegotten are viewed as impure within her order and he speaks of her from obvious imbalanced position of reverence, but despite everything, she confided in him! It feels like a tragedy of people who were meant to be close friends but too much time was gone because of circumstances, decisions of the past which aftermaths lasted for centuries to taint everything, mistakes and absence of one of the sides (oh I wonder who... 🙄) or simply meeting too late in life. You can't tell me they didn't wish they'd met sooner / they could go back in time / whatever your interpretation is!

OTP:

I think she and Godfrey definitely deserved each other! They are a fun pair of war criminals! Marika trusts him a lot for sure! I think it was not just by being impressed by his power and fierceness as it is, but maybe something sadder, though? After learning the Shaman Village lore, I can't help but feel that she'd seek a very big and strong person capable of crashing her enemies FOR her on instinctive level. Because that terrified, defenceless girl is still somewhere deep inside.. Even past the point she herself can wield a hammer JUST fine! SHE was the one who killed Fell God, not him! :p I think he understood that and saw it not as being a tool, but on the contrary, felt honored that he could be of support.

^^^ At the same time, this line made me wonder whether Marika divested him and his warriors of grace for his sake, sort of? Even with Serosh on his back, he still values a good battle and power! I think their relationship were held on battles! When there is no enemy for them to defeat, or in most cases, for him to defeat for her sake, he would just start to wither. Passion between them likely was low when he hadn't defeated anyone recently! :p She was bitter about it, maybe thought a bit lower of him seeing that he is physically incapable of enjoying life without a good battle and her love is not enough, but knew it would be better for him and group he created to at least fight elsewhere rather than just be Standing There while things are alright!

It feels to me like relationship that can only blossom under certain circumstances, even if for an unhappy reason! They might even have conflicts; her being appalled at a person that doesn't wish peace, as someone who went through hell and wished nothing more than that, and him being weirded out at how someone wishes to stagnate when to live is to ever assert yourself. And this is valid! Conflict is healthy! Their issues meet one another the right way!

nOTP:

Again: I will know it when I see it! She makes every ship interesting and fun, it seems! ....all 3.5 ships with her that even exist lol fdhjfhd

Random headcanon:

I know that Radagon studied incantations, but I do not think these are actually his! Marika is a NERD! Her bedchamber is FULL of scrolls and scripted stone plates! She likes to study... and to preserve!

These plates and scrolls are the same that are found in Specimen Storehouse. I do not think that they are strictly connected with the research on how to recover Shamans from the jars; if anything, you'd think she gave up on it long ago, especially since Shadow Realm was severed from the Lands Between. But they are valuable knowledge and history!

I am just trying to say, she is the type to keep remnants of culture and history, including which she was responsible for destruction of. There are tanks and shields modelled after Fire Giants so people still remember the fear that evaded them, but I also think that Stormveil had Godskins' Prayerbook in it because Godrick stole it from Leyendell! Marika still preserves history, Messmer' Fire Knights still preserve history.... yeahhh, Messmer is an odd one out wishing to just burn everything down. -_-

Unpopular opinion:

I do love to compare her with Gwyn, however? The takes like "Marika is so complex and morally grey and well-written whereas Gwyn just likes genocide" AND the takes like "it is funny how Marika is just Gwyn but so much more evil and worse in every way" irritate me a bit! When they're not in a joke way! They are both very well-written, both wished for a better world yet built it on blood, both feared fire/darkness respectively, both ended up doing more harm than good despite noble intentions, and although with different purpose, both sacrificed themselves!

....and both fall for either idealisation or demonisation. As well as one being hyped above another. "Oh Gwyn was such a great character, Marika is just a bleak copy, Fromslop can never repeat the former success" vs "Oh Marika is such a huge improvement in writing, Gwyn was really bland in comparison, really just a draft for actually good character in the future".... 🤦‍♂️ Let's NOT pit the bad bitches against each other any more!!

Song I associate with them:

(It is on German, so version with English lyrics!)

Favorite picture of them:

Aside of @val-of-the-north absolutely horrible drawn memes featuring her that had me floored and screaming like a seagull ( x ) ( x ), it is this image??

I don't know who made this meme, I just had it saved somewhere and it makes me laugh so much because yes, this is exactly what playing ER is like hfdhfdshdfs

[outmakingmoonshine]

may i ask what do you mean by “Ebra is an older version of Carmy”?

Of course. A slight correction though, I said Ebra is a representation of an older version of Carmy.

Unfortunately I can't find the post now or remember who wrote it but months ago I read a post talking about the parallels between Tina & Ebra's story with Carmy & Syd. Especially their story in S2. Particularly with most, if not all, the scenes of Tina & Ebra travelling to and doing their refresher classes being transitioned either to or from the scenes of Carmy & Syd arriving at and working together in his apartment.

Ebra was struggling with his self confidence, his self belief, accepting change and growth, even his own ego & stubborness (all things we've seen Carmy struggle with too). Tina tried to help and encourage him but his anxiety was winning over and he struggled a lot internally. Then he just stopped showing up, not letting Tina know and leaving her to work alone. At one point Ebra was even working overtime on his own, chopping veggies after everyone else including Tina had left. This was all done in a handful of scenes over 1 and a half episodes but we've seen very similar (almost identical) story beats and plotlines throughout sydcarmy's story in S2 & S3.

We've also seen throughout the seasons, Tina really struggles with her self confidence and self belief and we've seen Syd struggle with those things too. My interpretation of the difference between them is Tina's been struggling with it for years so it's now settled in as a core belief. We saw it manifest in bouts of anxiety, panic and in her lack of patience finding a job in 3x06...which is understandble but Liza's performance and Ayo's directing really made a point of highlighting Tina's intense impatience and anxiety with her situation in 3x06. Syd's still young, she hasn't struggled with it for as many years so it hasn't settled in as a core belief yet but we're starting to see those bouts of anxiety and panic slowly get worse for her. Syd's also been characterized as impatient since S1.

It reads to me as if Ebra & Tina are a representation of what Carmy & Syd would be years in the future if Carmy doesn't work through his trauma, if they don't learn to communicate properly and listen to each other. That's why Ebra was portrayed as a slightly miserable, "done with life" character in S1. Based on 1x08 we can assume Carmy would also be miserable and "done with life" if things dont go the way he wants and hopes with Syd. (And Carmy does have hope, everything he's been doing the last 2 seasons is because he wants and hopes to be with Syd eventually.)

Lastly, if Carmy & Syd never happen romantically it's likely Syd will end up marrying someone anyway, she's not averse to loving relationships like Carmy is. We found out Tina is married to someone in S3 but she still has the connection with Ebra that Carmy & Syd would have if they never become a couple. At this point with the level of intimacy in Sydcarmy's relationship, even without really knowing much about each other or having a real friendship, they couldn't just go their seperate ways and forget about each other now. This undefined, intimate bond they've formed has tied them together. That's why Syd hasn't left already and is still struggling to decide even though Shapiro basically offered her everything Carmy has offered but wont actually give her; a clearly defined partnership and the chance to build and create something of her own. Carmy & Syd would end up just like Ebra & Tina; friends and partners. Tina frustrated and annoyed with stubborn Ebra at times. Ebra never making steps to grow on his own and having to be pushed and talked into doing new things by Tina, but both of them still sticking by each other in their slightly antagonistic but endearing partnership.

I wanna make it clear this is not all Tina & Ebra are though. They're both still their own characters outside of this representation, this show just likes to tell different layers of storytelling through the same characters.

Thank you for the ask, it was fun writing this!

[allgoldenelite]

okay so here's my summary of ibushi's latest 2 videos (here and here) from his youtube channel

pls make sure to read this at your own discretion. it's honest, but not exactly cheerful.

this summary is not entirely chronological; i've grouped some points together for cohesion

the vids were taken about 2 weeks after marufuji vs ibushi was announced, so around 12/17 ish (i'm just bringing this up bc i saw some confusion bc ibushi was reported by noah to be in the us rn until at least the 27th)

ibushi starts out the 1st vid by saying how completely different american and japanese wrestling are; the example he uses are cheers, [in aew] whenver anyone makes their entrance the crowd is chanting their name

in japan it has a different quality to it; [i assume he's talking about coming out at the noah show to challenge marufuji here] it's strange to him when he can only hear his theme and there's neither boos nor cheers, but he was glad it got a reaction

as for how he's doing physically: says he'll be frank: his left ankle and the back of his right hand (there's a visible dent on one side of the back of his hand and he says he doesn't have much grip strength there but for powerbombs and germans he grabs his wrist with his left hand so he can still do those) are fractured and his shoulder isn't healed cause he never got surgery for it

the ankle is the worst out of the 3, he can't jump or do highflying and walking 400 m (0.25 miles) is his limit, even walking around everyday is pretty rough

he's been able to benchpress 88 lbs now, with 200 as a one time thing, but he can't do much actual wrestling match practice, worries about what he can do; sums it up as that physically things aren't really on the up and up at all

but he believes marufuji is going through the same thing [being hurt in a lot of different places] and that the match won't be bad because of that; he believes it will be good precisely bc of the shape they are in, the injuries they've sustained

as he's said in the past, he doesn't care about what place he is on the card even tho ppl care a lot about match order, but he has the opportunity of being in the main with marufuji, so [he'll make the most out of it]

the ring remains a place for him to express himself, unable to highfly or injured as he may be, that's part of it too

he could go out there and be like "no i'm recovering i'm practicing hard everything's going swell" but that wouldn't change the fact that it's not true

he's doing what he can do get better, but operating within the limits of his body and how he can workout

even so, he won't give up and expresses confidence, [he seems motivated for the match and to go through with all of this], he's been doing this for 20 years and nothing scares him anymore

he says his instinct/6th sense for wrestling isn't as sharp [anymore] either since he doesn't really wrestle outside of aew these days, and again japanese and american wrestling are completely different and he's matching himself to wherever he wrestles, so he will do the same for the noah match

as long as it's getting a reaction out of ppl, he's happy; as long as he's getting something out of it he's happy, there's no right or wrong here for him

he's not nervous for the match at all, just hopes he can put himself out there in his purest form, so that ppl can decide for themselves what it is he represents for them/how they experience them

the video ends with him saying that he doesn't wanna be gloom, but if something unfortunate happens [i interpret this to mean another injury] this will be his last [match]

[he also then says make sure to watch his matches (since you won't know which one will be the last), and while i don't think he's lying with the sentiment here at all, my suggestion would be to take this as it is for now but not despair too hard about it]

the 2nd vid is mostly a recap of him seconding a kickboxer he trains for his match at korakuen hall on 12/17, interspliced with more footage from ibushi talking in the secret base

just as the fictitious "ibushi pro wrestling research institute" represents his status as a freelancer and a means by which he express himself in his purest form to ppl, it's also a means by which he can take on ppl under his wing

[ibushi has talked on twitter before how he has several trainees who are former/current kickboxers or MMA fighters wishing to become pro wrestlers] he thinks more of them will make their debut in the future; he's not doing this to boast that he's the one training them, it just naturally happened this way

even tho the ipwri is not actually a promotion, [ppl he's training and ibushi himself] get announced/lower third-ed as being from there, so it has established itself in the world

[there's a backstage scene here of ibushi talking to machida (machida lost the match) and altho there isn't much to tl (it's just ibushi basically giving him a pep talk), i still think it's worth checking out, it's very sweet]

lastly he says the institute is taking applications and as long as your feelings/motivations come across, he's happy to read them, even tho there are already too many ppl showing interest rn

[inthefallofasparrow]

I think the main problem with House of the Dragon's interpretation of that scene from the end of episode 1, is that the lead up is from Blood and Cheese's point of view, not Helaena's. A good chunk of time is devoted to them. Far too much, in fact. We see them talking to Daemon, we see a montage of them randomly wandering through the castle, we see them arguing with each other, Cheese brings a dog for no other reason than to kick it to make sure the audience knows he's a cowardly bad guy, and because all of that time is spent with them, we know their motivations, limitations and incompetence.

Normally that's a good thing for humanising characters, but it means they are no longer a scary, unknown, unseen threat that suddenly and maliciously attacks without warning; they're just a couple of hapless knuckleheads. And that sucks a lot of the built-up tension out of the impact of the scene. It'd be like watching a horror film entirely from the killer's point of view. It's still gory, but it's not that scary because the suspense comes from the victim's limited viewpoint.

The Red Wedding for instance works so well because we see the buildup entirely from the Starks' point of view. We can sense some danger is brewing, but we don't know what it is. There are a couple of odd moments and interactions, as well as some ominous sound cues to clue us into something not being right, but otherwise we just see the Starks celebrating and talking about the future. The betrayal by Roose Bolton and Walder Frey is understandable in hindsight, but we don't see it until it's happening. We don't know they've been in contact with Tywin, planning a massacre. And the shock drives the impact of the attack, because we find out at the same time the Starks do. Whereas, as soon as Cheese asked Daemon what they should do if they couldn't find Aemond, it was pretty clear they weren't going to. So, we knew something bad was coming well beforehand either way, and then watched them bumble into it.

I think what the show needed to do was this:

After Rhaenyra made her wishes known, show Daemon writing an unexplained letter to Mysaria (who is still in King's Landing).

She receives it, and then meets with and passes it on to the only spy she has left, a goldcloak loyal to Daemon (Blood), after Larys killed all her spies in the Red Keep.

Add more scenes of Helaena interacting with Jaehaerys and Jaehaera, so we get to know them and their relationship better.

After Helaena had mentioned worrying about 'rats' earlier, briefly introduce the ratcatcher (Cheese) summoned to deal with them. He says there's an infestation in the children's room and suggests they temporarily move to Rhaenyra's empty old room.

Show Helaena getting more and more upset and paranoid about a looming threat that she tries to explain to Aemond, but can't.

Then that night, two men in hoods suddenly enter Rhaenyra's old room (through the secret passage we saw Rhaenyra and Daemon use last season) and hold Helaena and the children hostage there. (Though their faces are hidden, we can intuit who they are)

One reads the letter to her which Daemon sent, revealing it offers gold for anyone who can deliver 'the prince's head' to him. They demand to know where Aemond is, but Helaena doesn't know, so they decide to misinterpret the letter, and take Jaehaerys' head instead, and ask which one is him.

The rest can play out the same, I guess.

(Having Alicent in the room at the time too, like in the book, would obviously heighten the tension as well, but that's another thing.)

As a 'home-invasion-with-kids-involved' scene, this could've potentially had real 'Funny Games' (2007) vibes to it. But because we followed the invaders most of the time, not the victims, the set-up read closer to a non-comedic version of 'Home Alone' (1990).

[glorious-spoon]

I prompt "what's wrong with you?" because it made me giggle even though that's probably not how it's meant! If it sparks ofc ✨

that also made me giggle, so this is... definitely not a serious interpretation of the prompt, lol.

-

"Listen," Buck says. "I can explain."

"Uh huh." Eddie sounds deeply skeptical. Buck can picture the expression that goes with it: the flattened mouth betrayed by the teasing sparkle in his eyes. He can't see that expression, unfortunately, because he is currently wedged headfirst in the basement wall along with a jagged tangle of dislodged pipes. At least one of them has ruptured, and there's a sour stink of stale water. Buck should probably count himself lucky that it's nothing worse than that, but he's not feeling especially lucky right now.

"It's not what it looks like."

"Well, it looks like you got your head stuck in the basement wall."

"Okay," Buck concedes. "It is what it looks like. But it's not my fault."

"How did you even…" Eddie trails off. His footsteps move around Buck, like he's trying to take in the whole humiliating scene.

Buck tilts his forehead against the bare concrete wall with a sigh. That makes the pipes shift slightly, but not enough that he can actually disentangle himself. "I was trying to get at the trap vent. Maddie said they've been having a weird smell coming from the bathroom sink, and I told her I could just take care of it while she was at work so she didn't have to call a plumber, and then…"

"And then the plumbing came to life and tried to kill you," Eddie concludes. He's not doing a very good job of pretending not to be laughing at Buck, here.

"You're very funny," Buck says sourly.

"So I'm told."

"No, listen, whoever did the plumbing down here was a moron who didn't secure everything right, and one of the anchors came out, and—can you just help me out, please? You can make fun of me as much as you want afterward."

He probably could get out by himself if he really had to, but not without breaking something potentially expensive. At least Eddie lives within fairly easy driving distance. His other options would have been waiting for Maddie to get home in six hours, or calling 911, and he'd absolutely never hear the end of it. Good thing his phone, which he left on the other side of the room, has voice commands enabled.

"Oh, believe me, I will," Eddie says, but he also steps closer, pressing against Buck to peer over his shoulder. "Is that big pipe anchored to anything?"

"I think so. I didn't really want to yank on it too hard and find out."

"Okay, but what if I lift here—" He leans over Buck's shoulder as he speaks. "Hang on, let me get a better grip."

And then he hitches himself against Buck, warm and solid from chest to thigh, and honestly, Buck's life is a fucking farce.

"I'm pretty sure I saw a porno that started like this once," he blurts, because he can always be counted on to make an awkward situation worse by running his big mouth. And, okay, a little bit because Eddie plastered against him like this is extremely distracting, even under the current circumstances.

There's a long silence behind him, long enough to make him wonder if Eddie is genuinely offended. If maybe he's just going to stomp off and leave Buck stuck halfway through a basement wall until the 118 can show up with the halligan to rescue him, and then inevitably tease him mercilessly for the rest of his life. Which, like, he'd probably deserve, but he hopes not. The warm weight of Eddie's thigh tenses, then relaxes, but doesn't pull back.

"Oh my god," he says finally.

"Just saying," Buck adds, pressing his burning face to the cool concrete.

"What is wrong with you?" Eddie asks, but he sounds like he's laughing. "Don't answer that. It was a rhetorical question."

"I mean. Lots, technically."

"And we are not—" Eddie breaks off with a grunt, shifting back. Something creaks ominously overhead. "Okay, here. Duck your head a little, and I think we can—"

The pipe shifts, scraping painfully across Buck's trapped arm. Cloth tears, and he winces as the sharp edge of the metal digs into the point of his shoulder, but then he's free. He stumbles backward, the torn shoulder seam of his shirt flapping stupidly, and trips over Eddie, sending them both to the floor in an awkward tangle of limbs.

"Oof," Eddie mumbles, and shoves Buck's elbow out of his gut to sit up. "You good?"

"My pride is never going to recover," Buck says, putting a hand over his burning face. Then, "Yeah, I'm good. Thank you."

"Anytime," Eddie says, reaching down to pry Buck's hand out of the way. His hair is ruffled, and he's grinning, and honestly, Buck is in hell. "Come on. I think maybe this time we can leave the plumbing to the professionals. Have you had lunch yet?"

"No, I've been stuck in a wall for the past hour," Buck grumbles.

Eddie laughs again and gets to his feet, leaning down to offer Buck a hand. "Come on. We can stop by my place so you can grab a clean shirt, and then go get lunch. My treat."

"No, come on, I'm—you drove all the way over here to rescue me, I'll buy lunch."

"Well, I wasn't gonna leave you stuck in a wall all day."

"You're a good friend."

"Believe me, I know," Eddie says, but there's no rancor in it, or in the smile he aims Buck's way. His face is still faintly pink with laughter, and his eyes are sparkling, and Buck wants to kiss him.

It's an urge that's more or less constant these days, but it overwhelms him at the oddest moments. And the thing is, he's starting to think that if he tried it, Eddie might let him.

Now is probably not the moment for it; his shirt is still damp and smelly and Eddie is going to spend the rest of the day rightfully heckling him about this. But maybe someday. Maybe even someday soon.

Eddie pauses at the door, tilting his head toward the stairs. "You coming, or what?"

"Yeah, okay, I'm coming," Buck says, and follows him up out of the basement.

[neutron-stars-collision]

Here's the thing, right? Personally I never got a romantic vibe from the press tour, they just looked like co-stars who are very comfortable with each other and that's it. They were playful and obviously they'd have looser physical boundaries with e/o because of the nature of what they've shot. What do people want them to do, be like ewww about e/o? Everyone saw what they wanted to see. What is their sin here exactly, being too good at acting? God knows there've been some super awkward press tours with co-stars who either didn't know e/o well or even disliked e/o but fans still shipped them. Conversely, entire co-star relationships have flown under the radar until one of the parties disclosed it later.

It's not up to us to police a type of relationship we have no personal experience with if we aren't actors ourselves. So even if their relationship exists in a gray area by regular person standards, it is not up to us to filter it through our own experiences and force it to fit into our own concepts if we haven't been in that position. If they wanted to be together, they would be, simple as that. Any other supposition is a cope.

You and me both, Anon, seriously. Sometimes I see people going crazy over interview bits and footage and analysing them, all to conclude that surely they must be in love, but like... friends can be close, too. They can be affectionate, touch each other a lot, be comfortable and cheeky... that's all things you can do with a bestie. It's nothing entirely romantic during that whole press tour.

I wish people took their own words for what they're worth instead of interpreting and building whole damn theories based on a word choice or a shared look. And they said time and time again that they're friends.