#i know that my gender doesn't encompass female genders but still

[cat-doggy]

(pls read and research these first if you don't know what these flags mean, especially to me 🙏)

https://lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Lesboy

https://lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Gaybian

https://lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Sapphic_Achillean

Guess who just found out their attraction for women is gay :)

[thefinalcinderella]

Tsurune Book 3 Afterword

Full list of translations here

Time for my unsolicited book review!

Tsurune Book 3 is one of the books of all time.

I'm not trying to be funny, that is my true opinion about this book.

I've said before that it feels like the author was forced to write this book in a hurry, and after finishing it, I can only say that those feelings have only grown stronger. I think the author was going for an abstract and spiritual feeling but it didn't really work out. It only made the story hard to follow, and the tendency for the novel to jump from topic to topic seemingly at random didn't help. It's probably super obvious in the author's head, but that doesn't matter if the reader can't follow their thinking. I really do question what the editors are doing because I'm not sure if they're giving the author proper feedback.

The novel also suffers from trying to do a lot but not doing any of it satisfactorily. It introduced a lot of new characters and plot points but never really did anything with them?? The new first-years faded out of the story after the beginning and idek what's going on with Kuon. As for the new school Haneina...the author just gave them one """quirky""" trait each and called it a day. It kinda happened with Tsujimine too but it was more subtle with them, and I think the central relationship of Nikaidou and Fuwa was compelling and well-written. Asahina and Eddie, on the other hand, are just really weird?? I honestly don't understand what their narrative role is supposed to be??

This might be a controversial opinion but I feel like the anime tells a more coherent, polished version of the story. I was rewatching it the other day and I was kind of blown away by how the visual quality improved between the seasons. S1 was definitely not bad looking but S2 is just *chef's kiss*. Idk if there's going be an S3 but it will be interesting to see how (or if) they adapt book 3

Anyways i don't want to say that book 3 is kinda pointless since it did give us some reveals (perhaps unnecessarily) but on the other hand...i feel like book 2 had a nice ending for the series as a whole as well? idk. if there is going to be a book 4, i hope it will be all about Kazemai hunting down Masa-san's bio dad

Thanks for following along with me! I know I've been really slow with this so im glad people are still interested haha

Previous |

This happened when I was reading a certain foreign novel’s translated version. As I was reading through the point of view of a character whose first-person pronoun was “私” (watashi), I came across a surprising description. To my surprise, the character I thought was a woman suddenly started to shave their beard. Later, I learned that there was an unspoken rule that men used “watashi” written in kanji, and women used “watashi” written in katakana.

Minato’s personal pronoun is “ore” in hiragana. It encompasses the meaning of “undifferentiated,” someone of unknown gender who is neither male or female, although his physical body is that of a boy. Nanao’s pronoun is “ore” written in katakana, a person of unknown nationality who can’t be classified as either Japanese or foreign, a person who wavers between the two, a hybrid existence that crosses that line. Takigawa Masaki is also someone who hovers between “human” and “not human,” so his name is written as “Masa-san” (マサさん) in the text. Shuu is also a character who is in between.

I’m attracted to such “fluctuating” and “swaying” things. Things that can’t fixed or distinguished in form or state, as changeable as “water.” Kaleidoscopic freedom and loneliness are two sides of the same coin. People who fluctuate cannot stay in one place, and instability follows. Because they can’t be classified, they do not belong anywhere, nor can they be emphasized with. I wanted to somehow hold back those who can’t stop walking. I wrote this story because I wanted them by my side.

Changing the topic, I was on my way home from a domestic trip. After spending a relaxing time listening to the chirping of birds on an isolated island, I heard a large explosion sound when I got off at a certain station in Tokyo. The warning signal of a train entering the station continued to sound, and announcements reverberated from all over. I forgot to bring my earphones, so I was unable to plug my ears and ran all the way to the edge of the platform. Glowing neon lights reflected diffusely, and the words on billboards and other signs crowded in my field of vision like a herd of horses. I almost thought that I had time travelled back to wartime. We had become so accustomed to the flood of sound, light, and text that we don’t realize we’re on the verge of drowning.

Tsurune is the story of masters and disciples and bow friends with the theme of rebirth, and it began as the story of seven archers. The theme of Volume 3 is “Meigen, that is the sound of the dawn,” and I wrote about shari kenshou (seeing true nature through the shot).

I would like to express my sincere gratitude to everyone involved in the making of this book: Koyama Kyugu-sama, who I’ve interviewed, T-sama of the KA Esuma Bunko Editorial Department, Kyoto Animation-sama who was in charge of illustrations, the proofreaders, the novel’s official website, the printing company, and the distributors. The letters I’ve received are my treasures, and I have displayed them in my tokonoma alcove. I would like to thank my beloved kyudo teachers and bow friends, my precious friends, and my supportive family.

Last but not least, I would like to express my deepest gratitude to all the readers who have read this far.

I hope for the day when the beautiful tsurune of the archers will resound.

Ayano Kotoko

Spring 2022

Previous |

[the-grove]

So I was one of the first headmates who out previous host had become aware of. Although thats also not an easy story to tell because she isn't quite with us. "Rose" who sort of encompasses all of us, really felt like a mix between me and Rosie. Despite the similar names Rosie, doesn't always feels like she is the Rose who was our host, but thats ok... the parts of her she doesn't have I do, and we support each other. But I wanted to share a bit mroe about how I became aware of myself I suppose.

A few years back we had been exploring out gender identity again, we had still mostly identified as a woman but part of us felt more fluid. There was this androgynous or femboy identity in us. Rose decided to explore these feelings in a character Named Eliwood. Eliwood was a prince locked away in a tower saved by a female dragon who was also a knight. Eliwood fell in love with said knight as well as an Elven mage who was also in the party. Eliwood was sweet and kind, and an airhead and could talk to spirits others couldn't see and could sometimes see into the feywild causing them to not always see what was in front of him. Eliwood also took a magical potion to take his ideal form,despite keeping his more commonly considered masculine name and pronouns.

After Rosie has a turbulent year that involved the death of a complicated figure in our lives, some bad breakups, and bringing up abandonment issues. Thats when the cracks and splits started to become more noticeable, I think some of us were always here, especially looking back at life experiences, but that was when we gave ourselves names and we noticed things. And me clearly not wanting to be a woman...or at least not exclusively be a woman I took Eliwoods name. the character meant a lot to me. But we didn't know all too much about fictives, and well we were uncertain about a lot of things. But with time to think and regrow. Eliwood the character is a part of me...but i'm not just him. I'm glad I could. I found comfort in his identity but also in a character that was allowed to be soft, clumsy, naive and still seen as valuable and good.

And He is me and I am him. I'll continue to be more but i'll always have him.

art credits: @sadluigi for art of Eliwood the OC (first picture)

@ayellowbirds for art of Eliwood they did when I won a contest, as well as a superpower alter ego.

last pic was done by me using Baydews Picrew

lastly i want to thank both those I credited in the art, as well as @mama-chisami for being incredible people in my life, who have been there for us. And have helped us on our journey.

[genderfluid-info-blog]

I've been questioning myself as of recently and I'm not sure if what I'm feeling counts as genderfluid. I def feel like there's both a male and female side to me, but one doesn't replace the other. I always feel right when I present fem, whenever I have the chance to do so by myself which is rare. But I'm also happy presenting as my birth gender (male). I know the way I'm wording this is pretty binary but I can't quite put it in precise terms.

Hi there! It sounds like you have a fluid gender presentation, but that doesn't always equal having a fluid gender. There are people with a fluid presentation who have a binary gender/s, and people with a fixed presentation who are genderfluid! I have previously answered another ask about the differences between gender and gender presentation, if that topic interests you. You could also try reading some articles or watching some videos about this topic from other queer people and how they perceive this, that might help you understand the nuances of this topic even better.

As for your gender, I think you need to ask yourself whether it is only your gender presentation/outward expression of gender that changes, or your gender as a whole. Are the male and female side of you both always present? Do they maybe switch amounts/intensity over time, even though both of them are present? Genderfluidity is a very broad term that encompasses a lot of different genders, labels and experiences. Your gender doesn't need to fully change in order for you to be genderfluid. If you feel like your gender doesn't change entirely, but it fluctuates in intensity, or you feel slightly less or more male/female at times etc., then you could still be genderfluid!

Remember, I can only give you tips on how to figure out your gender, but you're the only one who has a say in your identity <3 If the label genderfluid makes you feel at home and you feel like it fits, then you're more than welcome in the genderfluid community. And if you're unsure or you're still figuring things out, that's perfectly fine too. Take your time, there is no rush🫶

[sigynsilica]

Gender vent post

I don't know if the fact that I don't relate to the female experience is because I'm not a girl or if it's because I'm autistic. I don't relate to any whole gender or lack thereof's experiences, and that is because I'm autistic, but I'm not sure if I wasn't autistic if I would be cis.

I can't figure out what words to call myself, and in the end I don't think it matters all that much What I Am. I enjoy expressing myself in androgynous ways, but expressing myself in a way that I perceive to be masculine comes more naturally to me. Femininity always feels like a performance. Not a bad performance, rather a performance that I love to engage in much of the time. My only problem with the performance is that many people cannot separate me from the act.

"Haha yes see how pretty of a girl I could be if I tried," I say, and people take that and mean I am a girl?? Part of the fun is telling others that I didn't choose masculinity because femininity is an impossible role. I don't hate my feminine body or traits, I celebrate them alongside my masculinity. I chose the latter because it comes more naturally to me. It feels more honest. But even when I perform masculinity, people still see the feminine engrained into me. And that feels like a lie that I can never escape.

I didn't give up trying to be a girl because I didn't think I could be one. I didn't give up being a girl because I hated girlhood. I gave up because I outgrew it. There is more of me than can fit into girlhood, so like a snakeskin that only reflects a part, not the whole of me, I shed it.

I want to be referred to as a man. Not because that is all that I am. There is more nuance than simply a man in me, but a stranger will not understand that, and I'm tired of being stuck and trapped in the role of woman forever.

I don't fully understand manhood, but I didn't fully understand womanhood. I don't fully understand humanity, and part of that is the autism, dialing that lack of understanding of self-expression to eleven, and part of that is just the human condition. We are not made to fully understand one another.

Can one even fully know oneself? No one else will know you better, that's for sure.

Is there a word that can encompass everything I present as? Is "everything I present as" what gender is?

I present as fabulous. That isn't a gendered concept. I present as an artist, and that's not gendered either. More people have clocked me as an artist than clocked me as queer. It's an identity I fit into better than most others I have.

My gender isn't male or female, it isn't boy or girl. I am a brother, a son, an uncle, and one day a boyfriend, but I am not a boy. I use those words because they fit me like a name. When the teacher said "can the boys help me carry these chairs to the front?" I always stood up to help. Because when referring to boys, I'm in there. When my dad said "ladies first," I hung back, because even though he thought he was referring to me, when you're referring to a group of ladies, you're excluding me.

So if you had to sort me I would be one of the boys. But like my name, that isn't everything I am. I feel off trying to fit everything I am into the word "boy" in the same way, but to a lesser degree, as I feel off trying to fit everything I am into the word "girl".

If I don't know you, as far as you're concerned I'm a man. But if I do know you, know that that isn't all I am. I can be a pretty princess, if I want. I can wear fairy wings and pretty dresses to the ball, but not because that is an expression of Me. It's just part of me, but it's a real, authentic part of me that demands to be let free sometimes. It doesn't take away from anything that I am, even the part of me that's best expressed through masculinity. It doesn't make me less of a brother or a son or an uncle. If I'm dressed up in my fancy ball gown with pins in my hair and my makeup done, if they call the men to help move chairs to the front, I'll be there, and if they say ladies first, I won't.

I don't relate to most men very well. Part of that is because I was raised to fear men by a conservative man who hurt me deeply and affected the way I see all men, including myself. But a lot of that is also, I can't stress this enough, it's the autism.

I feel alien in the presence of all humans. People claim I socialize so well, that for someone who doesn't like talking to people I don't know, I'm doing a great job, and I'm such a friendly and bubbly personality.

I love people, but not because I feel confident in my ability to navigate a conversation with one. That, too, is a performance, but of a slightly different kind.

Where I see myself as awkward and cold and unsociable, many other people don't. This is why I do have friends, even friends who don't have autism, and they like me, they have fun around me, and they consider me a friend, too. I feel like I'm grasping at straws trying to interact with them, but that's not a bad thing, because in reality, I pass as Allistic really well, when I'm trying.

Here's the catch.

I don't know what gender is. I don't know how to define it. So there's a part of me that wonders if the whole thing isn't just my allistic persona trying on new ways to interact with human beings to fit into their categories and expectations of what a human is supposed to be. If it is, that's okay, too, because each new mask is thinner. Each presentation of myself is more authentic than the last, and I can feel like myself more when interacting with someone who's under the assumption that I'm a really weird boy than someone who thinks that I'm any sort of girl at all.

If gender is a performance, I am genderfluid. I do what I want when I want with people's expectations of what I should want to look like.

If gender is biology? I quit gender and I'm moving to theoretical physics.

If gender is an identity, the things someone can call me and refer to me as? Then I guess I'm a man, for the sake of simplicity.

But if gender is what I feel I am? There's no words that can fit everything. There's no one term that can encompass everything I feel I am.

My full encompassing performance of self is best described through vague metaphor that is left into the Listener's interpretation.

My gender is the first firefly you see in the summer.

My gender is the smell of the salt in the sea.

My gender is realizing halfway through the book that it's your new favorite.

My gender is the feeling in your knuckles as you let go of the handlebars on the roller coaster

My gender is crying over good news at half-past two in the morning.

It's the churning of the water in the pool of koi that you just dropped kettle corn into.

It's the pause between the lightning and the thunder.

It's the slice of cake you saved until you got home from work.

It's the soaring and pounding in your heart as you ride your bike down a hill that seems to drop off to the end of the world.

Do you understand? How can I ascribe masculinity or feminity to such things? Is churning koi water a man? Or a woman?

I just am. And I'm not a girl, so I'm not cis, but am I really anything else? Or am I just a phenomenon of nature, an indisputable fact of existence?

I'm a he, yes, but only in the same way that any Little Creature you find on the forest floor is a he. He's only a he because you can't tell for sure that he isn't.

I dunno. Maybe I made things more complicated than they should be.

[danteadredkin]

Okay I have a lot of gnender questions but here's the big one that bothers me a lot:

I identify as a man, but I still like presenting femininely. I know that men can be feminine but for some reason when I wear a dress and do up my hair I look at myself and immediately see a girl. Sometimes I like they/them and other times I prefer he/him but I've never liked she/her, so whenever I wear those clothes I just feel yucky even though I love dressing up. And at first I thought I might be trans but then i realized that I didn't want to transition so I thought I might be genderfluid but something about that label just feels not right for me.

Sorry for turning this into a gnender rant but the gist of it is this: I don't think I'm trans but I know I'm not genderfluid, so is this just good 'ole confusion or is there an actual label for what I'm feeling>

I've had a few somewhat similar feelings before, with some labels feeling almost right but not quite, and sometimes two different ones feel right but they're conflicting labels, sometimes the labels that fit me change day to day, ect ect. What I eventually settled on that made me happy is just calling myself 'queer'. It's the word that I decided best describes me, encompassing everything and committing to nothing. I can be asexual one day and bi the next and trans the day after. It's lgbtqa+ all in one simple word.

As for gender labels specifically...the equivalent might be just calling your gender 'gender' lol. Personally, I would consider using 'queer' as my gender, if I was feeling what you describe. You also might find happiness or satisfaction in being one of those people who just say 'what are you, a cop?' when asked their gender. You might be happier trying to learn to live with and even love a concept without a name for your gender, leaving it unnamed. It doesn't have to have a label, if it's causing you more stress to look for one that's perfect than it's worth.

You might also try aiming for androgynous fashion, or looking male with your body but feminine with your clothes. Personally, I actually really liked experimenting with makeup styles meant to make female faces look more masculine, you might try that. I've also been thinking about trying male voice training, I think that would be similarly satisfying, you might try that.

You said something about not wanting to transition. I can kind of feel that. On the topic of my own gender...if it was a perfect world, and I could switch my body's gender with the flick of a button, and transphobia didn't exist, I think I would. I would pick a male body, but I would probably still dress it pretty feminine quite often. But this is not a perfect world, and transitioning is difficult and painful and expensive, and most of the world is some degree of transphobic, and honestly I barely have any body disphoria worth mentioning. So I choose to stay a woman most of the time, because it's the easier option. I often think that people who choose to transition are tougher and braver than any marine.

One place I think you might also find a kind of kinship is actually with drag queens, I think. I've met a few before. Now from what I understand, most drag queens won't answer directly if you ask their gender, but from what I understand, a fair number of them aren't actually trans women. They're just men who present feminine, sometimes or all the time, men who look like women, which sounds like some of what you've described. You might seek out your local drag queens (and kings) for further wisdom on the subject.

I also have a little brother who is trans, but he still chooses to present as very feminine. Most people look at him and see a girl. He's had a lot of mental health struggles around his gender. It feels to me like you have a lot in common with him. If you want, I could ask him to make a throw away account, and you could message him, or annon him? He might have better answers than me.

And also one thing that makes sense to me, that's helped me make sense of some gender things, is this thing that I heard once. It goes something like: "I am a man. And this is my skirt. And sense this skirt belongs to a man, that makes it a man's skirt, not a woman's skirt." This line has helped me make sense of a lot of gender things. That might help you too, when presenting feminine? Go through things one by one, and say 'I am a man, so that is a man's skirt. I am a man, so that is a man's ponytail. I am a man, so that is a man's makeup.' Or substitute they/them, when the mood strikes. Make it a kind of morning affirmation, maybe?

I kind of got all over the place with this reply...sorry about that. The end question was on labels, wasn't it? I'm sorry, but if there is a single, perfect label for what you are and what you're feeling, I don't know what it is. I've had some similar feelings, but the *not knowing* has never bothered me enough to really dig into it with a lot of self examination and research. I hope something of my experience helps though, and I hope you know I care about you no matter what your gender or clothes are. Even if there isn't a word for you, or if the word changes every day, you're still *you* and I still like *you* behind all the labels and the clothes and the body. I hope you likes *you* too. And you can feel free to ask me any time, though I'm sorry if I don't quite have the right words.

[mcivercomix]

Tw, I mention rape and sexual assault / harassment and suicide in this response

I really wasn't expecting a reply, and I certainly didn't think it would be respectful as it is, thank you for that.

Most certainly there is misogyny, homophobia, and racism amongst trans people. But I don't think it in any way shows that trans women aren't women at all.

Just as trans women can be misogynistic, so too can cis women. Because again like you said, it's all encompassing. Everyone is taught to be misogynistic. There are women who advocate advocate against abortion and birth control of any kind. There are women who teach their daughters to be passive and to ignore male violence. Yet they're all still women.

You say trans women want to use female only spaces as to feel validated, and while I can't speak for every trans woman on the planet, I can say that for myself and pretty much every trans woman I know, the reason we'd use something like the women's restroom is because we're worried about getting assaulted in the men's.

All the trans men I know also prefer the women's restroom for this very reason. We don't have spaces where we can go that are deemed appropriate. Gender neutral spaces exist but certainly not in most places, at least near me.

It's not about our feelings, it's about safety.

You linked an article about desexed language and for the most part that language is for trans men. Men who often still have their breasts, uterus's, and may or may not be on hormones. They're the group of people being included with language like "pregnant people" and what not. I'm really arguing in support of desexed language, I couldn't read the article you linked actually because of a paywall but I found this and I think this section is a pretty good objection to it.

Like most things I think it depends on context. The hemoglobin level in my body is in the range of cis womens, and HRT has done everything from redistribute my fat to change the amount of oil produced by my skin. My medical needs are more complex than "male" or "female". Still, I'm not fully disagreeing with you on this point and I'll be sure to read Invisible Women.

When it comes to your claim that trans women call all lesbians who don't want to sleep with them transphobic... I'm really sorry but it sounds like you're fighting a strawman.

I don't know anyone with that mindset, and while I'm not saying it doesn't exist (I have seen it one or two times online) I am saying that it's ridiculous to act like most trans women think like that.

I don't care who you do and don't find attractive! Any serious person doesn't either. I'm not a lesbian, I won't speak about what's happening in lesbian spaces but is the presence of trans lesbians really that detrimental? We're not some huge percentage of the population. And most trans lesbians I know are exclusively in t4t (trans for trans) relationships.

I did grow up male, and I have no problem saying I was socialized as one. But do you really think that If a man came up to me and started sexually harassing me, he'd start treating me like a man if I told him I was actually trans?

The answer is he won't, I've been in that exact situation. Luckily we were alone so he just ignored it and kept harassing me, trying to get me to do things I don't wanna repeat. If there were other men around though I might've gotten my ass beaten or killed.

That's because of male socialization. Young boys are socialized to see women as some sort of prize and not as people. They seek to segregate themselves from women altogether, only interacting when receiving their "prize".

In these boys only congregations though they still seek blood, and constantly ridicule, exclude, and sexually harrass/assault any other boys they deem as too feminine or gay.

This is what it was like for me growing up.

I remember attempting to perform some hyper masculine persona for like a year in middle school but it didn't work. I eventually started to spend more of my time with girls which the other boys did not let go unpunished.

In highschool I wore a dress to school one day. I didn't pass at all, anyone looking at me would've thought I was a boy. But in the middle of some math class a boy I knew began to rub his foot up and down my legs, and just laughed when I told him to stop, moving his foot higher up to my thighs. I remember him telling me it was because of what I was wearing before almost kicking me in the crotch.

Men do this to keep other men in line, it's how they're socialized. Every trans woman knows this, every trans woman goes through this. Men look at us like they do cis women. Some of them only support us because they desire our bodies, others who either don't find trans women attractive, or do but are ashamed of it attempt to paint us as hideous hardly human monsters in order to dehumanize us.

When trans women are forced into male spaces, especially prisons, they are subject to this playground mentality times a thousand. Trans women in male prisons are raped every single day, in locker rooms and bathrooms they're often harassed if not assaulted.

I can't force society to see me or other trans people in the way we want to be seen. That's why we transition, because we want to be seen as women or as men and people won't accept that unless we completely change everything about ourselves. So when you see us advocating for stuff like this, please know it's about our safety.

This is the biggest thing that confuses me, and really just makes me sad. I've seen Terfs and Radicals Femisists reply to articles about this with laughter and mockery. If I didn't look at the profiles, I wouldn't have been able to tell them apart from the men. How can women who advocate for female liberation, who speak out against the exact same issues I also face, find the suffering of people like me amusing?

You mentioned stuff like terfbre@king, of course I think that's disgusting. I've never heard of it until now, and honestly yeah that might speak to a problem of trans people not calling gross shit like that out in our communities. But I've seen people with your exact mentality celebrate sexual violence against people like me. In fact, I've seen them deny that it's even possible for any not born a girl to experience sexual violence.

How is that not apart of rape culture? How are people like that any different from men?

I'm not trying to say you're like this btw. I hope it doesn't come off like that.

I simply don't think of gender like you do. I think people just make assumptions about people based on physical characteristics and social behaviors to determine someones gender. Both man and woman are social roles we've created, vaguely defined. It's like asking me to define a chair.

I can't give you a concrete definition of what a woman is, or what a man is. The best I can do is gesture vaguely at a handful of things we associate with each and yes, you're 100% correct to call out some of those as misogynistic stereotypes. Man and woman, it's a creation of culture. We force people into these roles, I've read countless stories by intersex people who say how surgery was done to their genitalia in order to put them into one of these boxes, irregardless of whether or said genitalia presented a problem for the child.

As for what separates someone like me from a feminine man, it's that I live as a woman. A feminine man might be treated exactly like me, or he may be treated entirely differently. I will say, one exception to the playground mentality I talked about earlier is performing femininity to mock it. When boys jokingly shove tennis balls down their shirt to look like breasts or talk in a overly exaggerated high pitched "girl voice". Sometimes a bunch of these dudes get together and build a whole culture out of it, and yeah it's really annoying and upsetting.

However it doesn't matter if he's a normal dude™ or some racist misogynistic femboy from the depths of 4-chan. He's a man if he thinks of himself as a man. Just as I'm probably a man to you. Ones gender is the role we assign to ourselves and others, typically based off appearance.

Lots of trans women will tell you the whole "I was always a girl" line, and that's really just a line to say to cis people. But myself and a lot of the trans women I know explain it as "we wanted to be girls, and then became women". Sometimes I look in the mirror and see a man, sometimes I don't know what I see, but most of the time these days I see a delightful young woman who I don't hate. Probably the best perk of transitioning is being able to look at mirrors.

I'm not just saying that trans women also experience a lot of the issues cis women do under a patriarchal society. I'm saying all trans people experience it.

Trans men and some non-binary people grow up as women, and those actively transitioning might not (and might not want to) fully pass in order to be viewed as "real men".

I just don't think gender works like some immovable switch. I think we're meant to get a little silly with it, experiment, and find what makes us comfortable. And it's so fun looking at all the weird shit trans people do!

Trans men who still identify as lesbians

Trans women who still identify as gay men

People with xeno-pronouns (I don't even understand these but they're so interesting from a linguistic perspective).

All the crazy shit non-binary people do.

And Im sure you're frowning with disapproval reading this, lots of trans people might be too. But imagine a world where that's all perfectly ok, a world where gender doesn't really matter all that much and people have the freedom to move between them as they please. In this fictional society, a patriarchy couldn't exist, because it requires control.

I do understand your counter to this, that a society where gender is no longer completely determined at birth would opt instead to control whatever class of people could give birth. And that's a very genuine thing to worry about. However trans rights are largely an issue of ones bodily autonomy, just as woman's rights are. It's why trans people align themselves with cis feminists and why they often align with us. I think your reasons make sense in vacuum, but I think the reality truly is that we truly do just have the same problems, the same enemies.

Sure, I doubt this society will ever exist on this planet, and if it does it certainly won't exist within my lifetime. But neither will the fictional female only society plenty of Radical Femisists strive for, and both of them will be filled with countless other problems.

I hope I'm not misunderstanding the Radical Femisist idea of this too much. I am still a little fuzzy on the topic, hence my general interest in it. I'm really sorry for how long this response is, I didn't intend it to be 😭😭😭

If you read this all (won't blame you if you didn't) thank you very much.

I go into a lot of detail because I'm worried about not explaining myself properly, so I'm sorry if it seemed like I'm talking down to you at any point in this. Not my intent at all.

Thank you for typing out your response too. Most of it didn't change how I feel but the bit about language did interest me and have me question a few of the beliefs I already had since it's not really a thing I think about alot. Your citing of sources is also very much appreciated.

lately i've been doing a lot of thinking about why women are the main supporters of transgenderism, and i think i've boiled it down to three main elements

1. women are socialised to be more accommodating and accepting of uncomfortable situations than men are. this has been discussed at length in the radical feminist tradition and the gender critical movement, but it bears reiterating. women are taught from early childhood to disbelieve their feelings of fear, anger and humiliation for the benefit of men.

2. i'd argue that the description of physical dysphoria is one that almost all women empathise with, because of how alienated women are from their bodies by society, in a way most men are not. even women who would say they are comfortable with their bodies have complicated feelings about having a female body in our society, even if they don't have the framework to express it. therefore, when women are confronted with men who make claims about sex dysphoria, they relate and empathise and some can draw conclusions that this distress aligns them with femaleness (i would argue that all women experience sex dysphoria in a misogynist society like ours but i digress). i think there many women also find solace in the idea that someone else could possibly have their physical distress alleviated and want to believe it is possible to find a solution to it.

In other words, “The body has been made so problematic for women that it has often seemed easier to shrug it off and travel as a disembodied spirit.” - Adrienne Rich

3. women want to believe that male oppression and men aren't really that bad. to comprehend the scale of women's oppression, and to fully understand that the men you know and love are as complicit in it as any other, feels like balancing on the brink of madness. women are desperate for evidence that things aren't as bad as they suspect.

Andrea Dworkin says it best: “Many women, I think, resist feminism because it is an agony to be fully conscious of the brutal misogyny which permeates culture, society, and all personal relationships.”

that is part of the allure of the trans movement for these women in denial. breaking down the categories of male and female, and denying the social dynamics therein, means they don't have to grapple with the ugliness of misogyny.

anyone else have thoughts on this? i'd be keen to hear if others on radblr think

[gribouillealltypes]

i've just come to a thought, about gender, and somehow, wigs (???)

🌸 (skip to part "🍄" for the real thought)

for context about myself, i struggle to identify gender as a big thing, like for me it has the same weight as eye color or haircut when i describe a person (so to me sexism and gender discrimination as well as the whole society dividing our population between "males" and "females" is nonsense)

instead, when i see someone, i encompass their main characteristics and link that to a face and when i can, a name. [Assumed] gender is often one of the characteristics that i remember the best, along with haircut and -color and height (i have no idea why) + a unique physical or vocal thing that stands out. But gender is at no point the main thing, I rather see the whole person (or what i know and remember about them), often including gender.

🌼 (it was a long contextualization sorry)

so when it came to questioning my own gender, i struggled a lot and had a few theories, things i explored to know what i was the most comfortable with (i still don't have a clear answer btw)

one of the "theories" was gender fluidity, back when i was in highschool. The way i was thinking of it was : sometimes i feel more "masculine" and prefer to be perceived as someone with "masculine" characteristics, sometimes more "feminine" // ; but sometimes i felt like i was disgusted of being perceived as a woman, or as a man, (tbh most of the time i just hate to be perceived but that's not the point), so i tended towards a more neutral look, but, it was not only about gender. Those "masculine", "feminine" and "neutral" characteristics that i was looking for, actually had nothing to do with gender, because as i recall, i don't see gender. I was just biased by society stereotypes that we've been taught since birth. What was actually happening, is that those types of clothes + this mood i woke up with + these events in my day + these people or group of people i will meet was making me feel like "this is how i want to be perceived and/or this is how i would like to feel like today". It could be as "someone confident", "someone classy", "comfy in winter type", "dark sleep-deprived grrl", "rain and lost wave mood", "fit-in and not standing out type" etc.

so gender fluid I was not (maybe you consider I am but I don't think of myself like that)

🍄

so here's the actual thought about the wig and gender

when i was swinging through genders and "types of person i felt like at this exact moment" it felt like you have a wig (it works with many things other than wigs oc) over your natural hair, and it works like makeup, sometimes you put it on for you, sometimes for others, sometimes for both

and one day you feel like wearing long hair, but the other day shorter hair, or colored hair, depending on your own parameters of how you feel like and external parameters like what type of people you are going to meet. But also sometimes you don't want to put a wig on, and you just let your "natural" hair be as it is, and you don't care what the others think your hair looks like, they can think they are long or short, it's actually up to them depending of their criterias and it won't define you

it's accessory

and i feel like that about gender, if that makes sense

some like their hair or non-hair how it is, some like to style it a bit, some will change every week or a few times a decade, others will radically change one time and be happy with their last cut but in no way this alters who they are fundamentally

and gender doesn't define you, except if you want it to be for some reason, like if it's a way to resist or convey a message, but otherwise let anyone be who they want or feel like to be, it doesn't have to weigh so much in society (i'll stop here because i think people who got here already know the point i'm making)

[xueyuverse]

hi, saw your post about lesbian label and there's something as a lesbian myself I've been wondering about for a while, if you don't mind asking

why does it also include non-men or simply being explained as 'attraction to non-men'? wouldn't it make more sense to create another sexuality label for people who don't view themselves in binary terms, since there are so many labels explaining attraction in details?

Hi. So other non-binary labels actually already exist, like neptunic and venusic. However, every queer label needs to encompass non-binarity, after all, one of the community's struggles is to accept all types of people who are not in the chap standard, which is proven when we realize that binary genders such as “man and woman” are, in fact, , white settler views on gender. In indigenous cultures, for example, non-binarity has always been present.

This is why the “female sex” is the “weaker sex”, because the term “woman” was created with the purpose of submission. This is also why many lesbian women, even though they claim to be women, are seen as if they “want to be men”, as “predators”, because in the end, labels such as lesbian and gay deviate from stereotypical gender rules: you can only be a woman if you perform femininity and are attracted to the opposite cis binary gender, if you do not fit into this pattern your gender (and your sexuality, if you are a straight woman in a relationship with a trans man) will be questioned and you will be ridiculed.

Understand that me saying this doesn't mean that I'm denying the feminine and masculine identities, these identities exist, heterosexuality exists, but these identities are part of an oppressive-controlling system that assigns gender roles to people before they are even born. Sexuality is linked to these roles, which is why it's so common to see gay men being called “women”, especially if they are feminine but still men, and yet their gender is questioned both because of their sexuality and because of their performance.

And more than that: feminine gay men are called women in a pejorative way, but if it's in fact a trans woman, people will soon see the man they don't see in feminine gay men.

This is why non-binaryism is included in strongly binary labels: because cis straight binary doesn't include queer people. Lesbian women, whether performing masculinity or not, aren't women enough for the cis straight binary, so much so that in many feminist movements they're expelled because they're seen as predators. The same goes for gay men in their given reality.

I will go further here and also say that transphobia, racism and misogyny are also interconnected. If you’ve ever seen the news about black (cis) women being beaten by men for being “mistaken for trans women,” then you know where I’m going.

So, if every person who deviates even slightly from the binary gender stereotype isn't their gender enough, then why exclude non-binary people from labels if what they represent is part of the counterpoint of the cis straight system? In the end, no matter how binary a queer label is, it will never be binary like chap labels, and that will always cause us violence. And that's why non-binarity is on every label.

That's also why we've reached the point where we realize that no one is born with a certain gender. As Simone de Beauvoir said: “One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman”.

In my case and that of many others, I didn't become a woman, but I discovered myself as a lesbian thanks to all my experiences in a heterosexual system. Therefore, excluding non-binary people, who don't identify with any gender, makes no sense: because binary (which we know) is, in the end, a chap model that queer and racialized people aren't covered by it.

Another example of how the West is influenced by the European binary, just look at how Western people react to Asian beauty standards.

This is also why the label pansexual, for example, currently has the same "meaning" (let's say this for simplicity's sake) as bisexual, because pansexual at the time the label was created with the intention of including trans people, and nowadays we know that all sexuality includes trans people, and bisexuality, like pansexuality, is about attraction to either gender (pansexual is still used and is super valid, just like any other label, because of its context and historical value).

Finally, non-binarity isn't a "third gender", something mystical that doesn't exist or that should be treated as something separate, which is why its inclusion in both transgenderity and strongly binary labels is also important, after all "what is it like to be a man?", "what is it to be a woman?", "how does this directly affect my sexuality? If at all."

I strongly suggest reading the texts of Leslie Feinberg, who was a butch lesbian activist who lived as a lesbian trans person in the 70s, so you can understand much more how the trans, non-binary and lesbian struggles go hand in hand, and get to know both more of the non-binary movement and how the chap system works.

Making it very clear that none of this is to say that “binarity doesn't exist”, but rather that queer binary isn't the same as chap binary, and it's a counterpoint to chap binary that goes hand in hand with non-binarity, just as the binary we know also does not include racialized people.

Seeing the world from a binary, white and European perspective is limiting and excluding. What isn't accepted is transformed until you understand that it's not about acceptance.

[bougiebutchbitch]

Okay but Kakashi is canonically attracted to women and that shouldn't be ignored. Ignoring that is biphobia.

:breathes in deeply through nose:

Buddy.

I am a grey-ace, grey-aro, non-binary, genderfluid transmasc lesbian. Because I exist at a point of contradiction lmao.

But still, every one in approximately three-hundred-and-forty-nine dudes, I think 'yeah, I'd bang him'.

I call myself a lesbian because that's easier than saying 'I only want to bang one in approximately three-hundred-and-forty-nine dudes, and then it's often tied to my gender identity - when I lean very, very masc, I'm more into men.'

Some people, in my situation, would describe themselves as 'bisexual with a strong preference for women'. I find 'lesbian' easier shorthand, since my identity is already so fucking complex and hard to distill into LabelsTM.

That's the point: identity is complex.

There are self-described gay men out there who have loved and been sexually attracted to women, in some way or another, at different points in their lives. It doesn't make them any less gay. Insinuating that it does actually leans dangerously towards 'gold star'ism, which is shitty as heck.

Gay, bisexual, pansexual, lesbian... All these labels can be as narrow and restrictive or as broad and encompassing as you personally interpret them to be. They're often seen as singular pinpoints, stuck along a spectrum of queer desire that ranges from 'attracted to men' to 'attracted to women'. But if you look at those pinpoints from another angle, you will realise that they actually exist in three dimensions, and contain far more identities and nuances than you or I could ever imagine.

This isn't to say that labels don't have meaning. They have very strong meaning to some people!

But especially to those of us who fall between the cracks of the L, the B, the G, the T, and the A, that meaning is blurry. And that's beautiful.

I headcanon Kakashi as gay because, as far as I remember, he mentioned over the course of about five separate lines in one relatively obscure and not-especially-well-written novel that he found a single, minor female character attractive. He had a fleeting yet strong, confusing attraction to a woman, which he never acted on, and which was never mentioned again.

That isn't incompatible with him identifying as gay. Quite the opposite in fact, lol. I know many gay men who've had a similar experience.

If this concept offends you, I would like to refer you to this post for further reading.

[batmanisagatewaydrug]

Hey. I have a genuine question about trans people, if thats ok? I promise I'm not trying to be transphobic when I ask this, but I am very tired and google isnt making much sense. I know that, in a very broad sense, a trans person is someone who doesn't identify with their gender. But in this case what is the difference between gender and sex? Up until now I've understood sex as female/male/intersex and gender as man/woman/nb, is that wrong? I offer you a jar full of the Void as a thanks for your time

hi anon,

I really appreciate that you sent this question, because it feels like a very well-meaning case of "and at this point I'm too afraid to ask" and I'm always happy to be a space that addresses questions that might be hard to bring up anywhere else. let's do our best to get you a satisfying answer!

so first off, we need to do a little work on your understanding of trans people.

actually... hmm. okay, first, we need to talk about gender and make sure that we're on the same page. while past decades used "gender" pretty much interchangeably with "biological sex/genitalia" (and some people still do use gender that way - think of gender reveal parties, for instance) many modern discourses understand gender as something largely or entirely separate from one's reproductive organs, instead using "gender" to refer to a complex cocktail of societal factors that includes their self-perception, personal presentation, expectations of others and society at large, and the degree to which they feel they do or don't fit into feminine/masculine binaries.

here, let me keep it real simple. this is the definition of gender that we use for my 4th through 6th grade classes: "a person's feeling or sense, in their mind or heart, of whether they are a boy or girl, man or woman, a combination of both, or neither."

obviously not a perfectly all-encompassing definition because a.) I doubt there's any definition of gender that could make everyone on god's green earth happy and b.) it's written for people who are more concerned with Warriors Cats than queer theory, but it's as good a starting point as any. for this discussion, at least, gender is referring to an internal sense of self rather than anything about one's physical body.

okay, NOW we can return to your understanding of trans folks as "someone who doesn't identify with their gender." it would be much much more accurate to say that the majority of trans people don't identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. we live in a society(TM) where brand new babies generally either get popped out of the womb and promptly assigned either male/boy/blue blanket or female/girl/pink blanket (hence the terms AMAB and AFAB - assigned male at birth and assigned female at birth, respectively) on the basis of their genitalia, and both categories tend to come with a heap of expectations no matter how hard the parents try, because we are all a bunch of fish swimming in centuries of silly made up rules about how boys and girls should behave and that's difficult to circumnavigate entirely unless you raise your sweet gender neutral infant alone in a bugout bunker somewhere in the woods.

(worth mentioning at this point, since you already mentioned intersex people and we're going to get there eventually: babies who are born with genitals that are perfectly healthy but don't fall neatly into either the "penis" or "vagina" category frequently have their genitals surgically altered very soon after birth, frequently without the parents' knowledge or consent, to make those infants fall more neatly into one of those boxes. this is done on the assumption that those infants will live easier lives if they are more easily able to be sorted into one of to genital-based binary genders. many intersex adults and advocacy groups consider this to be a Very Bad decision, which I wholeheartedly agree with.)

okay, so, trans people. "transgender" is a very broad category which can encompass many different kinds of people, but the general unifying factor is that trans folks took a gander at the gender they were assigned at birth and said "hmm I think not, actually." some transition from male to female or female to male, some invent a jazzy brand new gender, some jettison the whole concept altogether, some can occasionally fuck with the gender they were assigned at birth but only every other month and on the full moon. point being, most trans people are actually, like, fine with their gender, it just happens to be different than the gender that their parents/doctors/society tried to give them when they were born.

that can be a lot to understand, but here's the most important part: when someone tells you what their gender is, assume that they're the expert. not their parents/doctors/society. them. they know who they are and what they want to be, and the least the rest of us can do is use the terminology/name/pronouns/etc that they would prefer.

hopefully by this point the difference between gender and sex/genitalia is pretty obvious - your "sex" or genitals are but one of many features on your inescapable human meatsuit, and your gender is a complicated internal vortex. absolutely any person of any gender identity can have any sort of genitalia, and could feel any kind of way about it. that's generally not going to be any of your business, unless you are a particular trans person's a.) healthcare provider or b.) sexual partner.

now, about those female/male/intersex and man/woman/nonbinary triptychs - I would love to problematize those, if I could take another moment of your time.

right off the bat, I would recommend unlearning the urge to classify any genitals as "male" or "female." for better or worse, those are words that are extremely tied to gender, and most trans men, for instance, won't love being told they have "female genitalia" (especially if they've gone to all the trouble of getting phalloplasty, oof), most nonbinary people don't want to be told they have the genitals of any gender they don't identify with, etc. sex educators and healthcare provider like myself have been doing a tremendous amount of work in recent years to neutralize our language and make it more inclusive, so that rather than needlessly gendering someone's genitalia we can just talk about body parts as they are. if you need to refer to a group it's fine to say, for instance, "people with ovaries" or "people with prostates." strongly encourage that, good stuff.

also: while we should absolutely recognize that there is more diversity in genitalia than the two most widely known penis and vagina configurations, classifying intersex conditions as their own discrete third category is something I would be careful about. first off, the term "intersex" encompasses several different conditions, so referring to someone's genitalia as "intersex" doesn't really convey anything useful about their body parts - especially since some intersex conditions only impact chromosomes and cause no particularly noticeable difference in the genitals, which could look exactly like those of a perisex person (perisex = not intersex) and thus be indistinguishable from "male" or "female" genitalia.

there's as much diversity of gender among intersex people as any other population - there are trans intersex people, cis intersex people, nonbinary intersex people, and so on. as with any other group, the best to talk about their body parts is without presumption and using whatever language they'd prefer, rather than assuming you know how it ought to be classified.

treating "nonbinary" as a stable third gender category likewise has issues - what being nonbinary actually means and looks like can vary WILDLY between the people who fall into that category. many people who find the existing gender binary stifling, harmful, oppressive, or otherwise not very fun actively rebuke the idea of that sort of neat classification, and are actively disheartened by the idea of all of their effort to challenge that binary resulting in the creation of a trinary with a third category that's exactly as rigidly defined as the other two. some of us - hi, it's me - want nothing more than to exist in an ambiguous space beyond easy categorization.

tl;dr while it's great and necessary to acknowledge that bodies and people can't all be put neatly into two opposite boxes, the answer isn't necessarily to conceptualize a new, third box to plunk all of the outliers into.

I appreciate the jar of Void, which my cat will probably be knocking over shortly, and I hope this clarifies things for you.

[butch-reidentified]

a type of femininity that is subversive to a degree and specifically is NOT appealing to straight men ] gyn wake tf up there is no such thing youre underestimating the scope of the male gaze

Do you genuinely not understand the nuance in what I was referring to there, or do I really need to break down for you what this statement actually meant? This just comes off kinda disingenuous to me tbth.

Honestly, just a general note to everyone: if you're gonna send me these types of asks in this self-righteous, condescending, semi-aggressive tone, while entirely missing the point & context of my original post... just don't. There's nothing feminist about unprovoked hostility towards other women, and there's certainly no reason or need for hostility in addressing this matter either.

Anon: I am not "underestimating the scope of the male gaze," you are simply removing the context here. Why exactly do you think I said "to a degree?" I am very much aware that the male gaze encompasses all things female - including women who are extremely gnc.

Here is the full paragraph you referenced:

To me, femme identity should be about a type of femininity that is subversive to a degree and specifically is NOT appealing to straight men. It should be more like 《I have intentionally worked through and unlearned much of my performative femininity, but find that I really do like x, y, and z stereotypically feminine things. However, I also refuse to participate in harmful, anti-woman activities like spending a fortune on "anti-aging" products, cosmetic surgery, diet culture, makeup, silencing myself, etc.》

Not participating in any of those things is a pretty significant turn off for most het men, and very few het men will be so turned on by your enthusiasm for hosting dinner parties and crocheting that they'll overlook your refusal to perform aesthetic femininity as expected.

I described my wife as an example there. What part of her day to day appearance is appealing to the average straight male? The "femininity" of her appearance ends at "long hair." She just doesn't really display femininity outwardly. As I described in that post:

My wife doesn't wear makeup or dresses or heels or do up her hair or remove her body hair. She isn't quiet or submissive or weak or delicate. She actually has a black belt and used to teach women's self defense - unpaid on a volunteer basis.

Her standard look is pants or jeans, t-shirt, comfy shoes, no makeup, no perfume, hairy legs and armpits, etc. What I did say is that she enjoys "x, y, and z conventionally 'feminine' things." Those things are not appearance-related. They're personal interests (ie hobbies) which men don't get to see because men don't get a view into our private home and lives. None of these things are performed *for* men, which is what I clearly meant by that statement.

Men will fetishize and lust after absolutely anything a woman is or does, so what is your point here exactly? There are straight men who fetishize the most gnc women they can find. Some even fetishize TIFs who have been on hormones and grown a beard. None of us can escape the male gaze, but the majority of straight men are still disgusted by gender nonconformity in women's appearances, even if she has long hair. Hell, I've had a handful of OSA friends who do wear makeup and skirts and heels and style their hair and paint their nails, but don't shave their body hair, and most men are pretty quick to reject them for that alone.

When we all know the scope of the male gaze is all-encompassing, I figured it would be apparent to anyone reading that post that that bit was about the average/majority of hetero men, and finding ways to enjoy your conventionally feminine interests without drawing male attention. This as opposed to the thread I was responding to, which described femmes as entirely physically gender conforming & appealing to the (average) male preferences.

[beetlebethwrites]

Oh lawd chile uses he/they pronouns, but doesn't like masculine terms such as husband? That's it. Stop the earth and let me tf off 😩

Okay so. I've had this here all day and night and I'm not going to respond directly because that's stupid and you obviously don't want to get it if you're still conflating pronouns with gender roles, something that I thought we were over already.

What I am going to do is talk about dysphoria, how that is a part of my decision to make some characters gender-locked and non-binary and why they all use different pronouns!

I'm sure you all know this if you’re taking the time to actually read it, but people experience dysphoria in many different ways, and people can experience dysphoria in all aspects of their lives or in certain circumstances in particular. Dysphoria can come in many forms and I think that’s important to consider if you’re thinking about the dysphoria your characters experienced. I considered these sorts of things when building my characters and making choices with their identity. I could go into this level of detail for Matt, Eve and Jordan too in their relation to gender and gender roles, but right now I don’t want to.

Alex identifies as non-binary and experienced strong body and social dysphoria from a young age, which led to them wanting to physically transition away from their AGAB. They gain gender euphoria by looking androgynous, as well as through the use of gender-neutral terms and pronouns in reference to them. They like only gender-neutral pronouns and don't like to be perceived as masculine or feminine, they like to be neither. The gender binary isn't for them and they've taken a firm step away from it, although sometimes for ease of description they will describe themselves as being 'neither' or 'between' male and female.

Charlie identifies as non-binary largely because of social dysphoria in the society he lives in (the UK). They don't see themselves in the societal roles of someone who is typically 'male' and prefer gender-neutral terms like partner, child etc. They don't experience dysphoria related to their own body and physical appearance, although it took some work to get to that point. As a result of that, he's happy to use he/him in combination with they/them, although they don't like gendered terms when applied to himself. They also present in a masculine way, with clothes that are perceived to be male and heavy tattoos and many piercings, but he's still non-binary. He never questioned otherwise, and just assumed everyone felt similarly for a long time before discovering what it meant to be non-binary.

Bo-yeon understood the concept of gender young and wholly rejected it, as xe did with many societal expectations of xirself. Xe experienced social dysphoria more so than in relation to xir body, although has experience with both, especially during xir teenage years. Xe doesn't feel a need to relate to or make xirself 'palatable' to people who don't understand. Xe doesn't identify with any of the gender binary, even the idea of being 'gender-neutral', and found euphoria in neopronouns instead. Xe dresses in clothes that are unisex in many ways and has always naturally been quite androgynous, although xe does work to stay that way as far as possible. When xe has children, xe wants to just be called a parent, and it is an internalised part of xir identity that at some point xe will be one.

By no means do I consider my characters to encompass or reflect all non-binary people, as non-binary people are not a monolith. These characters, as with real people, would have differing experiences of their gender and disagree on certain things. I just wanted to give an insight into how they’ve been built up in my mind, and the nuances of their identities. 

If you have good faith questions, I’m more than willing to talk more about the nuances of their gender identities. Otherwise I have no intention to answer asks about this - their identities are not up for discussion! 💛

[the-delta-quadrant]

i still love this term a lot, although i don't use presentation terms much anymore. i usually just describe my presentation as maverique, as i am a maverique and i'm presenting as myself. "maverine" never really felt like home because i just don't know what a "maverique-like" quality is. i just know what maverique itself is. i don't find it personally useful to call myself both maverique and maverine, because to me, my maveriquehood is all-encompassing: my gender itself, but also my presentation, my body etc. they're all maverique. and especially because maveriques still lack visibility, we're still carving out space for what a maverine/maverique-like presentation even means. it feels impossible to imagine it because the main categories that are known are masculine, feminine, androgynous and neutral. in terms of presentation, i could not tell you the difference between a maverine presentation or a neutral or androgynous presentation, so to me the term "maverine" kind of lacks meaning. this is not to say that other people can't find meaning in the term! i am simply speaking for myself here.

basically, extrinity is to masculinity and femininity what nonbinary is to male and female. extrinity is vague and inclusive. extrinity includes neutrality, androgyny, xeninity, agenrinity, aporinity, maverinity, outherinity etc, but it also includes people who are partially masculine or feminine, or people who are both. as stated in the above post, the opposite of extrine is intrine, which describes people who are strictly masculine OR feminine (regardless of gender). i know i could have also called these binarine and nonbinarine, but i coined them at a time where i did not vibe with the term nonbinary, and tbh, i still like extrine more. so, like, masculinity and femininity are not inherently intrine in the same way that manhood and womanhood aren't inherently binary, but strict masculinity or femininity can be called intrine masculinity or intrine femininity, like specifying binary manhood or womanhood. i created those terms to a) have an identifier for myself that is vague and b) address the issue where intrine people are centred even in nonbinary spaces, due to their proximity to the binary.

extrine can also be used as a trans- term, i.e. transextrine, once again describing people who aren't strictly transmasc or transfem. transneutrality falls under transextrine, but so does transmascfem.

and i love the vagueness of extrine. like nonbinary, you can say you're extrine and it can mean so many things. when i call myself extrine, i'm saying "none of the main two", analogous to what i mean when i call myself nonbinary. technically, when i call myself extrine, i am specifically saying "not masc or fem or anything derived from it, but distinctly gendered in a non-neutral way", which is also what i mean when i call myself nonbinary, except switching the terms masc and fem to male and female. so technically, by that definition, maverine would totally work but for the above reasons it just doesn't work for me at the moment. aporine would work for this too, but tbh i just don't really like how the word sounds or looks. abinarine could also work.

i love the term transextrine because masculinity and femininity are especially centred in trans- terms. it's a nice shorthand to say "trans but not in those two ways", especially since once again there's no, like... template for what a maverique transition looks like. i mean transmascs and transfems can also do whatever they want forever, but look at it this way: the transmasculine and transfeminine paths have been walked on so many times that they're now very visible in the grass, but a transmaverine path? i have not found one. there's just some vague paths that look similar and i don't know which is "mine".

if there was a term like otherine/transotherine i'd totally use it because i've kind of been reclaiming otherness for my gender, as it feels gendered but not in the main two ways and i guess people usually understand what it means. but it looks too similar to outherine, which is not really a term i identify with.

extrine

a term for gender qualities and presentations that are not fully either masculine or feminine. examples include: androgyny, outherinity, xeninity, agenrinity, aporinity and many more.

etymology: extra ("outside of") + ine.

maybe masculine and feminine could be called intrine, as in intra (inside of [the masculine-feminine dichotomy]) as it's so long to say "masculine and feminine" all the time.

thanks @debinarinator for encouraging so much thought about this stuff!

[thelittlepalmtree]

I feel like gender does not apply to me. Like when people are like "my gender is..." I'm like wtf are you talking about?? Do you just mean you like that stuff?? And then I started rewatching Sailor moon which was literally the first thing I ever loved and I was like "oh. This is my gender" like my gender is Usagi. I'm not necessarily similar to Usagi but when I think of womanhood and what femininity is I think of usagi. And when I think of who I want to be in relationships I want to be similar to Usagi. Like is that who I am? No, but that is the social dynamic I want with others.

I also feel like the fact that she's labeled a girl is sort of incidental. Like to me "man" and "woman" are more social classes. I respect that some people use those terms to describe their personal identity and understand their meaning when they do but personally I only use the term "women" to describe a social class that encompasses many different individual identities. That's also why I get frustrated when we use anatomical language to describe political situations. Like saying the Dobs decision effects only "people who can become pregnant" is actually way more exculsionary than saying it effects women. Because it effects the healthcare of all people that are in the social class of women. If we want to avoid misgendering people we could say "women and those assigned female at birth" which is much more inclusive that just "people who can become pregnant". I was assigned female at birth and I only identify as a woman in terms of social class (obviously I have some thoughts about my personal identity) but I don't know if I can get pregnant due to health issues. The decision still effects me directly and my healthcare. It also effects me in that my legal rights to bodily autonomy have been threatened. In that way I am part of the social class of women and experience oppression on that basis.

That oppression, though, has zero bearing on my personal identity. In my mind, if I did not experience gendered oppression I would not be a woman. None of the other aspects of my existence tie into that for me. I'm not a woman because I like pink and sparkles and wear dresses and work in a care based career. I was definitely socialized to prefer these things because I was assigned female at birth but I don't feel that my love of things categorized as "feminine" has anything to do with my gender. Like to me the categories should not exist. I'm messy and struggle with self care those are considered masculine qualities but I don't have them because I'm masculine I have them because that's just who I am.

I feel a little like society is kind of like a watch and we all interact with each other differently. Then someone started randomly sorting gears into two categories maybe one categories had all the sharp tooth gears and one category had all the gears with three spokes but if you have sharp teeth and three spokes you got put in a random category. And if you looked at the two categories you might notice some patterns but overall it's completely arbitrary how they were sorted. I know what kind of gear I am, how I want to fit into society and interact with other people and what part of the watch I want to be. That's how I see my gender. But the categories of "man" and "woman" are just bad. I don't think those categories should even exist. And just because my gear was sorted into the woman category doesn't mean I agree to it. The only reason I'm acknowledging it at all is because i have been treated as less than because of the category I got put in.

When other people talk about their gender it always seems to acknowledge the categories as valid. Like "i was sorted into the man category but I'm actually in the woman category" or "I'm not in the man category or the woman category" or "i go between the man category and the woman category" or "I'm right in the middle of the man category or the woman category". And my identity is like "the categories don't apply to me, the categories have been forced on me and I reject them completely." I'm not androgynous. I'm a square-toothed three-spoked gear that has almost all the "correct" qualities for the woman category but I don't think that matters. My qualities are just who I am and they're not better or worse than any other qualities. I can see them as a cohesive gender identity but I don't see them as connected to "womanhood".

So all this is to say. Does make me nonbinary? More specifically does it make me agender? I feel like it does but I also feel like I am not allowed to identify that way because I don't have a nonbinary experience. People aren't typically misgendering me, I don't really expensive any trauma or discrimination outside of sexism. Like I think it fits me but why add a label to my identity if it changes nothing?

[acrystalbirdie]

a separate post about emily gwen (creator of the 7-stripe inclusive lesbian flag) and her views on bi lesbians, because i don't want to derail a post for lesbians who find safety under her flag and want to support her monetarily/are looking for a place to buy lesbian pride items.

this isn't me saying to buy or not buy from her. this is meant to be an informative post. with that said, under the cut are screenshots of my past interactions with her when explaining my stance on bi lesbianism from the perspective of a nonbinary person. long post ahead

these are dated from july 2019, when i reached out anonymously to her on her curiouscat. her opinion might have changed since then, but i'm unsure of this. i acknowledge now that this may read as an attack bc i came to her with my opinion already made up, trying to convince her. these asks were prompted by some anti bi/pan lesbian tweets she made that day, but the context isn't necessary

[image ID: a screenshot of @diabolicdyke's curiouscat. an ask from july 22, 2019 features the following text.

you tweeted today about disliking the word "queer" for yourself and as a blanket term, and that's 100% valid! other people have a deep connection with the word - even with its original meaning of "weird" but that doesn't mean you have to like it or use it, and this gives no one the right to describe you using that word. as far as I've seen, you don't have a problem with others self identifying as queer as long as it doesn't apply to you. does this same logic not apply to the term "bi lesbian"?

self-identified queer people are not responsible for the violence that has been enacted among the LGBT+ community, because we are all seen as the same to bigots. this would be the same for anyone that would personally use the term bi lesbian. even if you don't get why people would call themselves queer or bi lesbians their removal does not suddenly make us "acceptable to cishet society."

in addition, you are supportive of he/him lesbians (justly!), but hearing a lesbian refer to her absent partner as "him" can also lead others to assume she is straight or receptive to men's advances. this contradicts the claim that bi lesbians are dangerous for implying male attraction, because they are not the only ones who do so, nor should they or he/him lesbians be blamed for causing lesbophobia.

finally, bisexuality isn't always restricted to the gender binary, and people who use that label aren't responsible for or deserve the binarism that results. if a person describes themselves as bisexual for liking women and nonblnary people, they aren't "asking" for male violence nor are they personally responsible for society's lack of awareness around women, women-leaning folk, and nonbinary people as a whole.

is this something we can civilly discuss? I'd like to hear your thoughts about this, but if this makes you uncomfortable or offends you there's no need to answer. thanks for reading, I know this was rather long 🧡💗

- Anonymous

the response from diabolicdyke reads:

This isn't something we can civilly discuss because 'bi lesbians' are both lesbophobic and biphobic and also don't exist. You like men? Keep the word lesbian out of your lesbophobic, selfish mouth. There have already been men harassing lesbians because they think they can be bi. You're making up a bullshit term that hurts people. If you're attracted to men but still have a preference for women? THAT'S STILL JUST BISEXUALITY.

/end ID.]

[image ID: a screenshot of diabolicdyke's curiouscat. an ask from july 22, 2019 features the following text.

you can be bisexual without liking men... there are more than two genders... nonbinary lesbians and he/him lesbians already exist and aren't responsible for 'inciting" male violence.

I'm not saying that sapphic people should treat women and woman-leaning folk as different. I'm saying that nonbinary people overall are not the same gender as women and this is a way the term bi lesbian can be used - bisexuality does not inherently mean male/female and it's not any sapphic's fault that men will be violent because that is victim blaming them for not doing enough to educate allies. this is like saying "you chose to call yourself queer, you brought this bigotry on yourself and you make all of us look bad"

I don't know how else to say this - it's binarist to assume bi lesbians like men. bi lesbians *do not like men.* there are more than two genders. bi people as a whole aren't to blame for forced heterosexual violence on either the gay or lesbian population. this sexuality is not inherently damaging.

- Anonymous

the response from diabolicdyke reads:

You're ignoring three things:

1- all the nonbinary people who say that what you're saying is bullshit (esepcially nonbinary lesbians)

2- the fact that most bisexual lesbians say they ARE attracted to men

3- the fact that the term bisexual lesbian has TERF origins

/end ID.]

[image ID: a screenshot of diabolicdyke's curiouscat. an ask from july 22, 2019 features the following text.

I'm nonbinary and there's a large part of nonbinary Twitter that agrees with me - bi lesbians aren't replacing nonbinary lesbians. however I can see this is getting us nowhere and there's no room for civil discussion, as you yourself stated. I genuinely hope you have a nice day

- Anonymous

the response from diabolicdyke reads:

Replacing? What are you talking about? Bisexual and lesbian are two separate terms, that's the end of that. Considering that the vast majority of lesbians think this whole thing is grossly lesbophobic, and you are ignoring that, I hope you have a crap day.

/end ID.]

i feel like my arguments are compelling, with the most important one being that self identification is not responsible for anti-LGBTQ+ violence. this places blame on the individual instead of looking at the actual perpetrators of lesbophobia. wlw should not be blamed for the actions of lesbophobic men.

i have roughly the same opinion now, two years later, with one exception: in the ask i specified that bi lesbians are not attracted to men. that was a mistake on my end to define an identity i didn't have myself. i also realize now that it doesn't matter if bi lesbians are attracted to men. these labels are for individuals to define their attraction however they like, and labels should not be "prescriptive," trying to encompass a single definition that must be adhered to.

i gave my opinion because i felt as a nonbinary person that my gender was encompassed under bisexuality/romanticism, and thus that it is possible to be bisexual without having attraction to men, by acknowledging nonbinary alignments as a separate attraction from women. this doesn't change that there are nonbinary lesbians who feel comfortable with being perceived as woman-aligned or non-men. i personally am just not one of them.