#i hurt i love armand bad

[sleepymick]

crying :( why did louis talk to armand like that :( i mean, i am still watching, so maybe i shouldn’t feel bad for armand just yet, but i do :(

[superiorkenshi]

If vampire Daniel definitive eye color is orange that would mean that every time Louis will look at Daniel he will only be able to think at Armand and the pain that come with it

[ladycatofwinterfell]

people who defend everything about lestat and insists he did nothing wrong because he says so in his books and that louis is either blatantly lying about all lestat put him through or mind controlled by armand into saying what he’s saying are so annoying… partly because it’s simply not true he insists he did nothing wrong in the books, he admits to wronging his fledglings and understands why claudia wanted to kill him. but also because lestat abused louis and claudia and he’s also interesting and i enjoy him as a character and it’s fine to do so. he doesn’t need to be good for you to like him, i promise you, you don’t need to justify it with that actually he’s a good person. no one in this show is entirely good and never in the wrong, they only have different perspectives on what happens and excuses for themselves. every single character becomes less interesting when you take their motivations and use that to completely justify or vilify their actions instead of seeing it as a reason for why they acted as they did. because lestat is neither an angel nor evil incarnated and for a show that explores cycles of abuse and patterns of violence so effectively you'd think people would understand that

this sort of defence of lestat also leaves a bad taste in my mouth because the violence he enacts on louis and claudia is so gendered and racialised, he's the white patriarch in the family and his gender nonconforming manners and at times progressive beliefs do not change that. he can be a flamboyant bisexual who does drag and still uphold patriarchal structures within his family. it just becomes weirdly racist and misogynist to completely disregard it.

for me the bad things about lestat can very much coexist with that i'm sympathetic to what he's been through and how that shaped him, that i believe he has good sides and that i think he's fun. because he is fun! it's a treat every time he's on screen! it can also coexist with that he loved both louis and claudia very very much. and that louis especially loved lestat very much in return. it's a very intense love, love to the point of hatred.

maybe next season we'll see him grow in the modern timeline, become a better person, be better to those around him than he was to louis and claudia during their time in new orleans. maybe his backstory will provide clarity on why he behaves the way he does as it did in the books. maybe we’ll see him still be toxic and abusive in ways. sam reid himself said he believes there needs to be a toxic masculinity to lestat for his queen of the damned arc to work

[elvesofnoldor]

Armand, Lestat and Claudia were all portrayed as demonic and diabolic creatures of various degree sometimes (with Armand being thought of only as the villain for a very hot second) and Anne Rice kind of made it so much more difficulty than necessary to sympathize with them even though they are literally all victims of abuse.

Anyways had Armand Lestat and Claudia unionized and realized they are not each other's enemy, maybe they could have achieved some semblance of happiness together as a purely platonic family. They are after all, fucked up in the same way anyways. Their brand of trauma makes them believe that being desired = being loved, and in fact it makes them believe that being desired is the ONLY way to be loved. In fact to be desired is more important to them. It's why that despite Lestat always caring for Armand and Claudia, both of them felt rejected by him because he could not desire them. It's why Lestat chose his abusive partner over his daughter Claudia, because to him romantic/sexual fulfillment is more important the non-sexual love you should have for your children. if Anne Rice realized that her vampire series should be about girls and gays uniting to kill the local p*dophiles mayhaps we can have 5 less books in her overtly drown out series. But alas

[danlous]

Months of reading how Armand is the Big Bad man behind the curtain manipulating and mindcontrolling everyone with his godlike powers, and now suddenly in one day it switched to cruel Pimp Louis manipulating and enslaving Armand and Armand being his poor victim. I'm begging you to look at these characters and their relationships with some nuance. I'm not denying that Louis is trying to manipulate Armand in some moments (Jacob said it himself in the post-episode bit) but seeing that park scene as Louis intentionally evoking Armand's trauma and a pimp and slave assuming their old roles is in my opinion a stretch and i didn't read it that way. Tbh i also find it pretty offensive that some people are acting like when Louis was a pimp he was doing something similar to people who subjected Armand to literal sexual slavery because they're vastly different situations.

Arun isn't Armand's 'slave name' or 'prostitute name', it was his actual birth name before he was sold and abused, and he lost that name due to abuse. If Louis had actually wanted to push a master-slave dynamic he would've probably called Armand Amadeo, because that was the name Armand's abuser, who Armand served and in some way still loves, gave to him. When Louis was a pimp he notably also didn't actually act particularly domineering with sex workers, on the contrary he was usually friendly to them, because he felt guilty for exploiting women and tried to convince himself he was just helping and working with them and that they were equals. He made sex workers like Bricktop Williams minority owners of his business and they felt comfortable with criticizing him. If Louis had actually 'treated Armand like one of his prostitutes' in this episode he would've acted completely differently. Remember also that Armand has a remarkable mind gift and that Louis is bad at hiding his thoughts: if Louis had actually been trying to manipulate Armand in this specific way, Armand would very likely know it.

In the beginning of the episode Armand is frustrated that Louis doesn't acknowledge that they're companions, and Louis expresses that they don't really know each other. Later at the restaurant Armand gets angry and uses his powers dramatically which upsets Louis. He also talks to Louis rather harshly, saying that he and Santiago are acting like fledglings (children) and angrily tells Louis to come back when he leaves. Later Armand comes to apologize bringing flowers. All this reminds Louis of Lestat, and reveals how apprehensive he still is about Armand. Armand deciding to tell Louis his story is a conscious effort to show vulnerability and convince Louis of what he promised: that Armand isn't like Lestat and he isn't going to hurt him. Jacob said that dreamstat represents not only Lestat but Louis' doubts about Armand. In the museum scene this is particularly obvious when Louis feels deep sympathy for Armand, but at the same time dreamstat - a part of Louis - looks angry and distrustful. According to Jacob in the park scene as Louis lets go of Lestat he's also letting go of those doubts and accepting Armand as he is and for who he is.

So when Louis calls Armand by his birth name that could be considered his 'real' name even though no one has called him that for centuries, i see it as him saying 'Do we see each other now? Are we honest about things now? Can i trust that you are who you say you are?' When Armand calls Louis maitre he's trying to establish an impression of equality, because as they both know Armand is the maitre and the leader of the coven and the one with much more power. For Armand the ideal of love is the one of mutual worship and servitude. Like many things with Armand, his actions in this episode are both sincere and manipulative, and his seeming submissiveness is also certain kind of domination that helps him to get what he wants.

I just don't think their relationship is anything like Louis being a master and Armand being a slave at all. It's a very, very complicated and mercurial relationship that is not easily defined and where the dynamics are constantly shifting. As Jacob said, they're constantly flip-flopping between who's the dominant one and who's the submissive one, and who needs what out of the other. He also said that at the end of this episode their relationship takes on this almost BDSM kind of role playing where their roles switch, which implies that a) it's a play and not what their relationship is actually like and b) there was earlier a different dynamic where Armand was more dominant. Their Rashid role play in Dubai was also that, a role play.

When talking about those Louis' 'manipulative instincts' as Jacob called them, it needs to be considered they're something that Louis developed having to live in a racist society for all his life ("using his weakness to rise") and being in an abusive relationship for decades. For Louis that kind of soft power has often been the only power he has, and of course he's resorting to it when in a relationship with much older and much more powerful person he doesn't fully trust. The way i perceive Louis and Armand's relationship, it's a fragile, carefully crafted design built on contradictions, performances and illusions, where they both seek to maintain a fantasy where they both feel sufficiently in control and the relief of releasing that control at the same time

[avelera]

Ok I now realize why I had such a positive view of Marius even though the show stating that he groomed Armand and prostituted him has the fandom out for his blood. Because for me at least, the idea that Marius prostituted Armand against his will was a surprise based on what I remembered.

- In “The Vampire Lestat” we get a mini-version of Armand’s biography and in it, we explicitly learn that Marius did not prostitute Armand after freeing him from the brothel where Armand was abused.

- He explicitly tells Armand he does not need to sexually please him to have his regard. He puts Armand in his art school with his other mortal students, though it’s clear Armand is a favorite, and is eventually sort of put in charge of the boys like a teacher’s assistant whenever Marius needs to go see to Those Who Must Be Kept.

- He tells Armand before he turns him to have as full of a life as possible even though Armand is constantly begging to be turned sooner. He tells him to, “Know the love of a woman, know the love of a man!” But on his own terms. There is no mention at all of Marius coercing (directly or indirectly) Armand into prostituting himself to his guests.

But this is TVL and The Vampire Armand expands upon his background and that book I don’t remember as well, though I do know there’s sex in it that Marius and Armand participate in together along with others, but I don’t remember if there was an element of prostitution or coercion. “Pandora” also gives Marius a bit of a bad name but more insofar as Marius and Pandora drift apart, just as many vampires do in the series, especially after one turns the other because vampirism changes people.

Once again, the prostitution could be in Vampire Armand and I just don’t remember it. Also the show could be adding this element or rather strengthening it, implying that Marius was all along planning (and therefore grooming given his young age) Armand to make a vampiric companion and lover out of him even though the mini biography in TVL implies the opposite, that he rescued Armand for his beauty yes but also because he was living in horrific conditions and them becoming lovers and Armand his fledgling was unplanned and came much later.

Or it could just be a hurtful thing Louis is throwing in Armand’s face during their fight because Armand in the books did worship Marius and did everything he could to please him, so saying it was grooming would be a deliberate jab at a painful subject for Armand. And we do have Armand saying explicitly that he was prostituted and heavily heavily implied against his will while at the museum, obviously.

I was just more perplexed at myself that this line caught me off guard and made me question my own memory. In general Marius is very much a protagonist in the Vampire Chronicles, if sometimes prone to bouts of jealousy and irritation, he’s not perfect, but those imperfections are presented as just a human part of him. And the fact that, at least in TVL if not in TVA, Marius protected and educated Armand and specifically told him he didn’t need to prostitute himself and it was Armand asking to be a vampire with Marius appearing reluctant until Armand had lived more of a life. So at least I didn’t remember it wrong from that book.

[weclassybouquetfun]

We bid a very fond adieu to INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE and the coven Théâtre des Vampires.

Take a bow, luvvies!

Especially Esme Appleton and Suzanne Andrade (who play Estelle and Celeste, respectively) the duo who are co-artistic directors of theatre 1927 which was responsible for the expressionism style of the plays and its projections.

Fans can at least rest easy knowing that there will be a third series.

Until then they and swoon over, swear over, sneer at or salute series two's finale.

SPOILER FILLED THOUGHTS

THE GOOD

-Pretty much everything: Louis avenging Claudia (and Madeleine though IIRC her name wasn't even uttered this episode).

The bad thing about a fantastic villain is losing them and Santiago you had to die.

You did what with Claudia's ashes???

But Ben Daniels, how do I love thee.

-Armand and how he fumbled a bad b*tch part 2. My maître made mistakes, yes. But I'm going to pull a page out of Claudia's playbook of how she asked the coven if she could cry and say she's sorry too. Can't Armand cry like Lestat and be forgiven? What do you mean what he did was unforgiveable?

It's terrible that Claudia was used as a pawn in Louis, Lestat and Armand's relationships. Louis needed her for salvation, Lestat had to turn her for the man she loved then resented her for the space she took in their relationship and then Armand, whether he was adhering to the Great Laws or not, went along with her murder IMO because he was fed up with Louis performing an affectation of love while Armand's neck was on the line.

Louis knew how to use Armand's vulnerabilities to keep him compliant and would turn cold when Armand wouldn't do what was being asked of him. Whether Santiago and the coven were gunning for Armand or not because of him letting the de Pointe du Lac de Lioncourts slide, Armand was ready to kill them because he hated that he was used and willingly let himself be used out of a need for love.

He was so angry that he workshopped his hurt with the coven. I absolutely loved that he gave Sam a note about how the script didn't go deep enough into Louis' hoarding. Armand sat there listening to Louis talk about his Grey Gardens years like,

Armand was fine with killing them in this protracted show trial, but had Louis burned, it would be a relatively quick death. I think when Armand heard Louis' screaming and knew he was approaching death, he had a change of heart and freed him.

And LOUIS STILL WOULDN'T LEAVE TOWN WHEN ASKED!

These three led their relationships as poorly as their joint hand hearts.

-That leads to the reveal that Lestat made the choice to save Louis over Claudia and Madeleine. Which I don't think was even much of a choice to him. Yes, he would rather not Claudia die, but he figured it was fait accompli because he knew these vampires (as he warned Claudia in S1) and knew their ruthlessness. But there was no way he was going to let Louis die.

He brags about having Akasha blood in him, but he's still bleeding from the ear when using that mind control power. You still need to level up after Akasha?? A booster from a more powerful vamp?

Claudia's death hurt him much more than he thought it would. He probably figured there would be feelings - she is his fledgling - but the horror and the finality of it devastated him. His daughter (and how great was it that Louis kept pushing that fact. She was their daughter.)

Which leads hovel Lestat.

Candlelit, ramshackled dwelling, with a wooden "piano", but practising with an iPad?

Lestat, if you don't get on Amazon and order one of these!

Lestat, know who you should bring on your tour? The grandson of Tom Anderson, Sidney.

The Louis and Lestat reunion was beautiful and perfect in every way. But then again, I love when characters have a powerful moment while chaos is around them.

And Louis chose himself! He didn't need to get back with Lestat, they both just really needed closure and forgiveness. The rest can come later.

And even though we will likely never know what Louis says to Lestat, I think he says "I love you" at the end because that would be the last bit of healing Louis needs because kept himself from saying those words to Lestat their entire relationship.

THE BAD

FIle Not Found

THE REST

-Sam isn't author Samuel Beckett, but Sam the Talamasca informant and helmet wearing DJ, possibly Deadmau5?

-At first I wondered why Louis' -whose family had a legacy in New Orleans- name would be lost to history, yet Lestat's alias is known. That Tom's and the Alderman's rep was still known, Louis' would as well and not just call him a Creole businessman. Then I wondered if it was because Grace "buried" Louis but her getting that crypt was symbolic. Even if their deed and other paperwork was under Lestat's aliases, the town knew who they were by name and I would think their names would be bandied about as much as Tom's as Louis and his "child bride" and Lestat went missing the same night as Tom, et al. But then I told myself I'm not Neil DeGrasse Tyson so I'm going to just enjoy and not logic police.

-In post-episode featurette Rollin says Daniel's vampire reveal happens when Daniel take off his sunglasses, meanwhile he's flashing almond shape nails throughout his interview. We know this man has been turned immediately.

-The limo driver talking about his wife wanting to see New Edition at Essence Fest - N.E actually did play Essence Fest in 2022 so hat tip to the writers for putting that in.

-Louis returning home albeit briefly. I love that this episode addresses his family. This is completion. He has put down everything he was carrying and is ready to move into his new life. This was what he wanted to do when he and Claudia first left, but he couldn't move on because of "killing" Lestat. He's exorcised his ghosts.

-A Reddit user pointed out that the name above the crypt Louis uses to store his fresh kills is "Mapothier" and posits if it is a nod to Tom Cruise as his real surname is "Mapother".

-Louis is still an AmEx holder, but now a black card haver.

-Louis was the knight and now he owns it.

Talk your sh*t, LDPDL!

-Not from the episode, but I love how Jacob does the excited smack and it doesn't jar Sam at all.

[yesimwriting]

omg irl (personally) i would get so fed up with armand like... nothing's ever straightforward with you... there he goesss with his ulterior motives.

I love how you describe Louis' worry in the latest chapter, because as anon requested, it is the crashout of all crashouts BUT its so sublty written and kept between the lines (big kudos to you) because Louis is not burning and killing 20% of the vampiric population like he did in paris BUT there are hints/implication present that he absolutely would do something much worse to protect and/or avenge bestie reader.

And it really shows during the part after the phonecall when he's thinking to himself. Him repeating Josh's name like a mantra??? Girl his last victim was in the year 2000 but im sure he's willing make sure josh will never use both of his wrists to operate a car ever again lmao. Also, being an english speaking foreigner, i'm usually able to keep my accent at bay but i know damn well that Nola accent was HEARD through that damn phone. This reminds me of that older brother vibe ask of yours you wrote before. We all know he booked a flight arriving after sunset so he can personally drive and pick her up from the airport. Also stand as close as possible by the arrivals so she doesn't need to carry her luggage with a broken wrist.

His worry over the medication that makes her drowsy??? Omg Louis loves her so much its sickening what the hell. I need to see Daniel catching bestie in 4k, casually snoozing peacefully with Louis bc she feels so safe and i need daniel to snap a picture to blackmail louis with it later. (the 70 year old senior is louis younger brother confirmed by jacob anderson himself lmao)

The one hundred thousand over set price for her painting reference???? So Louis doesn't even know, I wonder where armand is keeping the painting. I also wonder what his intentions are with reader. Like... what are his feelings, is his interest romantic, platonic, sexual or something completely different.

Now bestie reader is so gen z and i know for a fact the people in this generation will see bullshit from miles away. (we've been trained by social media) I love the idea of armand being the manipulative gremlin that he is and reader just seeing straight through it. She's a baddie we know damn well she will CLOCK HIM the second he tries to shift the playing field. And I know he'll like it too. Just look at him and Daniel. (rip non book readers, devils minion will give you whiplash)

SIDE NOTE: i love the moment in the show when armand is retelling his story of the trial in paris and Daniel questioning how tf a five hundred year old ancient did not have the ability to stop his own coven. Daniel's smug face and the deadpan "Or what?". Daniel GO GET HIS ASS.

Daniel and reader would get along so well.

side note nr 2: i apologize for the bomb i just dropped in your inbox.

omg what a fun ask <33

i love armand, but in real life i'd be so over the theatrics of it all 😭 like yes you're playing chess and we're all playing checkers we get it!! no one will think you're less mysterious if you just answer the question omg

thank you for mentioning the louis thing! i'm glad you liked how i set it up bc i wanted his worry/frustration to be apparent but i still wanted it to feel in character. ik he's not opposed to greater crash outs (like the paris thing for my girl claudia ✊) but i also think that even when he's upset he understands time and place to an extent. like claudia's very intentional killers deserve worse than a guy who has done something relatively minor to reader on accident. however, it's still important that he very much would do the same if not worse for bestie reader if something actually bad happened to her, so i'm glad you read it that way!!

the josh thing pls 😭 i almost didn't have bestie reader give the guy a name bc she knew how he'd react. also i think that while louis isn't chill with murder, knowing that it'd be so easy to hurt someone who he thinks deserves it isn't an easily dismissible thought. i don't think he's jumping to hurt/kill everyone that's wronged bestie reader, but i do think it's an intrusive thought. the wrist thing 😭 i can see louis reacting like that if he was right there, but i feel like louis would only plan out violence if someone seriously/intentionally hurt reader.

this is going to sound off topic, but bare with me for a second. i haven't delved into this yet, but friendships can be just as complicated as romantic relationships, and while i'm committed to louis and bestie reader always being completely non-toxic, that doesn't mean their dynamic is simple. a major thing that complicates their relationship is the way that they worry over the way the other perceives them.

bestie is worried that louis perceives her as fragile and therefore fleeting and unworthy of long term attention. she's scared of being seen as a hindrance and as a burden. louis is worried that one day everything will click for bestie reader and she'll realize that he's a monster. so he's doing all he can to not demonstrate violence in front of her.

anyways, all this to say that he's not going around attacking people partially bc of his values but also bc he doesn't want her to associate violence with him.

also, total side note but this dynamic is actually what leads to reader and armand bonding. louis loves her so much and the thought of losing her is so distressing that sometimes he censors himself a little too much or treats reader like she's extremely fragile. armand doesn't. yes, this is because it's easier to risk losing someone that isn't the your emotional support human, but also bc he genuinely thinks she's capable of handling it. he'll tell her every (non-incriminating) vampire story ever in full, gory detail and reader is fascinated.

the accent comment is killing me 😭 ik that nola accent was HEAVY over the phone. reader felt those words in her soul.

and yes he’s AT that airport and he’s happy about it too lol.

also yes louis loves her sm 😭. ofc he was worried about her all alone on drowsy medication. that's the light of his life! what's he supposed to do if something happens to her? go back to only talking to his companion and occasionally a journalist accidentally moonlighting as a divorce lawyer??

also omg daniel and reader interactions are a need!! daniel being described as louis's younger brother is so important to me here omg. i love daniel and louis's relationship sm, and i just know daniel is ready for someone else with common sense to be sitting in. daniel looks at bestie reader like that one meme that's like 'you're the only bitch in the house i ever respected'.

the picture concept is so cute 😭 might have to write that into a scene bc i can see daniel seeing louis and reader asleep and at first being like ? and then taking the picture to bring it up later.

YES THE PAINTING REFERENCE i'm so glad you noticed!! i was so excited for it lol. i mentioned this in another post briefly, but i think armand's lowkey disgusted with himself for purchasing the painting bc it's a physical representation of the fact that he finds reader interesting. even before louis, before he knew her, he found something about her interesting, and bc he thinks reader has dismissed him, he wants to pretend that he's never thought about her at all.

i don't want to spoil where the painting is (it's not a major spoiler lol) but armand still has it and it is somewhere secret.

omg armand's intentions with bestie reader 😭!! i'm going to give you a short answer and then a long answer bc his feelings for her evolve slowly.

short answer: he has a really intense hate-crush on her. she's so beloved and perfect and basically the sun personified. he wants to consume her soul, he wants her to not exist, he wants her live forever, he wants her, he wants her to be just as obsessed with him so that he can calm down. she's an affliction. she's a blessing. he's going through it.

long answer: at first, he resents her bc she's taking up all of louis's attention and love. then, he starts to wonder what is so perfect and wonderful about her that has louis absolutely enraptured by her existence. then, he tries to win her over for his pride, and then..well...it spirals.

there's also the underlying benefits of getting reader to care more about him than louis bc then louis can't leave him without losing reader (most delusional and unrealistic part of his thought process tbh).

as far as end goals, he's a little lost bc all of this was an accident <3. it gets to a point where louis and reader are so intertwined, armand thinks he deserves to be with both of them. he's entitled to a matching set.

bestie reader's gen-z-ness being the reason she can see through everything armand says 😭. omg. in my head, she likes louis and armand together so when she realizes something is up she's like oh no. bc she obviously has to tell louis but she's not happy about it. lowkey on a subconscious level she doesn't want to not have armand in her life so she's like :(.

still calls him out tho bc she's loyal and also bc his lies are so egregious it's hard not to. i can picture her being lowkey sneaky when armand mentions saving louis, like feigning confusion and asking something like "just so i'm clear, isn't lestat also technically a powerful vampire? and wasn't he also in the building?" just to start something but also as a way of sending louis subliminal messages to lock in and open his eyes.

also i can see daniel realizing bestie reader knows something is up and looking at louis and being like "come on...i know, armand knows, even the girl that was really happy to be talking two minutes ago and now can't stop staring at the floor knows..." 😭

omg and armand liking being called out. this is for sure when his obsession with reader peaks. also, this hasn't come up yet, but i picture bestie reader as being very perceptive and when she argues with armand over small things she accidentally clocks him with next level reads that she'll never know how accurate they are. i'm talking reads so accurate, louis is immediately stepping in between them bc he thinks it's so over for her just for armand to let it go. (might need to write a drabble featuring this)

armand's love language to reader is not killing or torturing her for calling him out. it gets to a point where louis is like ? girl i've seen you kill people for implying what she just directly said?? if louis ever notices that something is going on with armand in relation to bestie reader it's bc of a suspicious lack of attempts to physically hurt her fr.

(also total side note, but bc you mentioned devil's minion, i just needed to say i love devil's minion era sm.)

omg in response to your side note, i LOVED that moment so much. "or what?" had me gagged. on the GROUND fr.

daniel and reader would get along so well. two divas coming together to maximize their joint slay. they're sitting around the penthouse giggling over the vampire drama like they're the immortal ones 😭.

also,, never apologize for sending me a long ask!! i'm currently very hyperfixated on iwtv and this was so fun for me! if anything, i'm sorry for how long this response was 😭💗

[nightcolorz]

What would the book characters think if they meet their show counterparts?

I think book Lestat wouldn't like show Lestat at all but he'll have the hots for everyone on the show immediately

Book Daniel would be in shock that his show version is old in human years, that's like, his worst nightmare, he'd have a mental breakdown over it, meanwhile book Armand would love to know show Armand held on so long before giving Daniel the dark gift and his beloved got to live a full life before becoming a vampire

Book Armand would also obsess about show Armand's adult body

Book and show Louis would NOT get on, show Louis would just not stop going "A WHITE MAN???" He would also call the book version boring (and dull, and beige pillow like...)

I loooooveeee this question I actually think about this all the time 😭😭. So so hilarious to me I want to put the book characters and the show characters in a cage match.

I think Show Louis would hate book Louis bcus book Louis is like the embodiment of his flaws in a way 💀💀 he’s like everything bad about show Louis in 4K. Show Louis reacts to book Louis the way he’d react to the Christmas carol ghosts showing him all his fuck ups. What’s funny to me about the race change is that show Louis’s ancestors were slave owners, and if he was born in the 1700s he’d likely have been a slave owner, so meeting wet cat book Louis who is him if he was just a little bit older and way whiter and realizing how terrible he is would be a mind fuck. It’d be like meeting his shitty great great great grandfather who also has his same taste in poetry. On the other hand I think book Louis would be equally as aghast by show Louis being a pimp as show Louis is about book Louis being a slave owner 😭. Book Louis’s moral problems r largely religion based and I think he’d be confused and startled by how little catholic purity standards matter to show Louis 💀. But book Louis is also very polite and southernly passive aggressively pleasant and soft spoken to strangers so I think any kind of altercation that could occur would be very one sided 💀. Show louis is like wtf wtf is this what is wrong with u and book Louis is reading his book silently and frowning.

if book Daniel met show Daniel he’d instantly go into cardiac arrest and die from agony before show Daniel could give him the older self “don’t do drugs u wild youth” inspirational talk. Exactly what u said 💀 its so funny that they made show Daniel old bcus of how afraid book Daniel is of growing old

And YES on all the Armand thoughts loolll. I feel like book Armand and show Armand r the only book vs show characters that would get along. I think book Armand would be veryyy envious of show Armand 😭 bcus show Armand is Book Armand if he was morally stronger, made decisions more soundly and kindly, was an adult, and had giant pecks. He’d would definitely be star struck over how show Armand didn’t turn Daniel until he was an old man and he’d probably go into a insecure self hating spiral from seeing his (perceived) stronger and better and sexier au self. I think also, show Armand would be very kind to book Armand. I get the impression that as a teenager show Armand did look and act more like book Armand does, and he’d react sort of like “this is me if things went more wrong and I was still the teenager that haunts me, look at him hes trying his best” I think show Armand would admire book Armand’s endurance and his self sufficiency (that show Armand doesn’t have) and be kind of like, well if tiny cherub me can live like this maybe I can to. But I think the key to the Armand’s getting along better then the other characters would would be how both Armand’s r so mentally ill and so existential and religious that talking to some alternate version of themselves would not phase them and probably would be like common occurrence of the week 💀

Show lestat and book lestat would hate fuck 💀l think book Lestat would go into a “you hurt my Louis 😰 JAIL jail for 100000 years” spiral, but then eventually get himself together and be like “yknow what I also am evil and have problems who am I to judge” and he’d remember that he is super attracted to men who look like him but are older and smarter and start stripping immediately. I think both lestats would be mad about seeing their flaws reflected in each other and express that by crazy self cest fucking and then lie on the floor together doing each others eyeliner and crying

thank u for the ask this is my favorite thing lol

[waystar-royco]

absolutely ruminating on lestat’s “did you hurt yourself” line

i mean, lestat’s turns his first love, nicky, into a vampire only to watch him adapt so poorly to the dark gift that he goes mad and kills himself. then, many years later, he finally makes another companion out of louis. things go bad. louis murders him. louis leaves him. worst of all, however, is that when all the mess in paris is over, louis chooses armand over him. and this is all terrible for lestat of course, but i don’t think that’s what led him to decades of living in squalor as a recluse. it was one day getting a call from armand that louis is hurt. after that lestat was left with the knowledge that once again the man he loves has been moved to self hatred and depression so deep that he has harmed himself, all because lestat changed them. and armand doesn’t even finish the conversation with lestat, leaving him to question for decades just how distraught louis is, if he’s even alive.

[whatspastisprologue-blr]

Memnoch the Devil gives me some of my favorite Lesmand interactions, even though, as is the case with all the books, I have to keep Assad Zaman's Armand in my mind because he just *is* Armand and so whenever he's described in the book it's honestly jarring to me.

Like, when they first see each other again and Lestat is genuinely happy to see him? And notes that Armand's voice "had no meanness in it at all". And basically calls him hot and then says he's "good to love". And then they hug each other! Willingly!

"We eyed each other for a moment. And then he surprised me, rising and coming towards me just as I moved to take him in my arms. His gesture wasn't tentative, but it was extremely gentle. I could have backed away. I didn't. We held each other tight for a moment. The cold embracing the cold. The hard embracing the hard."

And then Lestat playfully ruffles Armand's hair! Which Armand doesn't mind. In fact, he smiles! And then playfully shoves Lestat back (actually, it hurt him) to show off a little. After which, we get this:

"I can't remember anything bad between us." I said.

"You will," he responded. "And so will I. But what does it matter what we remember?"

"Yes," I said, "we're both still here."

Armand laughs again and kisses Lestat a couple of paragraphs later, seemingly just for fun. And then, in this chapter (this is all just one chapter, guys), Armand basically gets to play Lestat for Lestat, in the sense that he gets to tell Lestat the exact same arguments that Lestat used to help Armand get free from the CoD. Both of them admit it.

Oh, yeah, and actually, Lestat wasn't expecting to see Armand! That was a surprise. Armand showed up (with David, ew, but maybe it'll be Daniel on the show) because he's worried about Lestat!

And then we get this hilariously petty exchange:

"Around this Dora, I've thrown a protective light. None of us can touch her."

"That goes without saying. I won't hurt your little friend. You wound me." He looked genuinely put out.

"I'm sorry," I said. "I know. But I know what blood is and innocence and how delicious both can be. I know how much the girl tempts me."

"Then you must be the one to give in to that temptation," said Armand crossly. "I never choose my victims anymore, you know this. I can stand before a house as always, and out of the doors will come those who want to be in my arms. Of course I won't hurt her. You do hold old grudges. You think I live in the past. You don't understand that I actually change with every era, I always have as best I can."

(Seriously, AMC, give us this scene! Lestat warning Armand specifically, not David, to not hurt someone he cares about but also entrusting this person to Armand's care despite how it turned out previously. And then Armand being salty about it because jeez, Lestat, that was like, so long ago I can't believe you'd bring that up!)

Also, "I can stand in front of a house as always, and out of the doors will come those who want to be in my arms." Made me think of this:

Anyway, then we get to see this:

"Lestat, if you need me--" Armand said. "If this being tries to take you by force!"

"Why do you care about me?" I asked. "After all the bad things I did to you. Why?"

"Oh, don't be such a fool," he begged gently. "You convinced me long ago that the world was a Savage Garden. Remember your old poetry? You said the only laws that were true were aesthetic laws, that was all you could count on."

"Yes, I remember all that. I fear it's true. I've always feared it was true. I feared it when I was a mortal child. I woke up one morning and believed in nothing."

"Well, then, in the Savage Garden," said Armand, "you shine beautifully, my friend. You walk as if it is your garden to do with as you please. And in my wanderings, I always return to you. I always return to see the colors of the garden in your shadow, or reflected in your eyes, perhaps, or to hear of your latest follies and mad obsessions. Besides, we are brothers, are we not?"

A few paragraphs later, Lestat tells Armand (and David, but hopefully Daniel in the show), "I love you both."

All that in one chapter! I just wanted to share it because I feel like other great Lesmand moments get referenced a lot, such as Armand's line from Blood Communion:

"Fool," he said again. His voice was roughened now by emotion he couldn't suppress. "I have always loved you," he said. "I have loved you more than any being in all the world whim I've ever loved. I have loved you more than Louis. I have loved you more even than Marius. And you have never given me your love. I would be your most faithful counselor, if you allowed it."

And, like, that's an epic quote. I love it. But there's more to their relationship than all the bad things and this one quote!

I want to see Lestat do his part to destroy the CoS, including his "Gentleman Death" speech. I want to see Armand's attack on Lestat, him pleading to Lestat to let him accompany him and Gabrielle (promising to be Lestat's servant if that's what it takes), and Lestat rejecting him, partly because of their past and because he knows Armand needs to figure himself out apart from anyone else. I want to see Lestat entrust Nicki to Armand and then get the letter of how Armand chopped Nicki's hands off. I want to see the torture leading up to the play where Lestat is forced to watch Claudia die. I want to see Armand push Lestat off the tower. Because those are pivotal moments in their relationship, too! In particular, Armand attacking Lestat is basically why Lestat never pursues the sort of relationship that Armand wants, even though I would argue the love and affection is there, and that Lestat himself might wish differently at times.

All that pain and horror and tragedy, and then they both agree they can't remember any of it, and that even if/when they do, it's water under the bridge. "You shine beautifully, my friend." "I love you [.]"

Forgiveness is, for me, one of the most important themes of the Vampire Chronicles and, in my opinion, the Lesmand relationship is one of the best examples.

[mossycakes]

can i ask why armand is your fav character? what qualities make him your fav? genuinely curious :)

not a question i was expecting! im not entirely sure. i just think hes so incredibly rich as a character. every single thing he does, good or bad, hurtful or not, can be explained. he always has a line of logic, or a splinter of trauma that explains perfectly why he does what he does. i think hes such a sympathetic character as well.

more comedically, i think hes very relatable as an autistic person in terms of being a bit weird and off putting. unfortunately i relate to that, lol, i have a bad habit of staring a lot and not talking very much. i think him in his director era in the theatre was genuinely hilarious, and i think he can be so sweet and genuinely romantic.

assad zaman captures him absolutely perfectly as well, and while i can't attribute him to all of my love (example, i watched the movie earlier and atill loved armands character, even though i believe film armand and book/show armand are two seperate characters, but thats another post) he definitely helps bring armand to life.

hes good looking, autistic, weird, has committed several atrocities, and at the end of the day still has the saddest most pathetic wet cat face of them all. whats not to love

[nalyra-dreaming]

Watching season 2, Armand is so fascinating yet confusing to me. I have only read 1.5 books at this point so I don’t know much about him at all from a lore standpoint. But, the show seem to made him more nuanced than he was at least in the first book, with his backstory and hearing things form his pov and all that.

What I find fascinating is his bad side; his cruelty and violence, because it doesn’t seem unmotivated as in, like, he SOLELY take delight in - it’s almost like he actually feels ENTITLED to it? Like, he genuinely seem to NOT understand how cruel he is sometimes? Or that he is going too far. Take it out on people that I make no sense too. Or hurt people that he claim to love, and then believe it won’t change anything, and when it does it confuses him?

Very interesting, a lot of the reason for it seems to simply be out of just pure jealousy - and nothing more.

It’s…strange?…And tragic.

I surprised when I started to feel bad for him because I can actually understand how his thought process may go.

Also, his what it seems to me twisted way he sees love. Confusing love with dominance and control; and when he witnesses actual love being given to someone, he doesn’t know handle it and either want to destroy or make it fit the only mould that he knows.

;(

Armand... is Armand. :) (And yes, they gave him a LOT of nuance!)

I'm not sure how else to say it. He does not think like other people. Part of it is the way he was broken, for centuries, by the cult. Part of it is definitely the way he thinks, imho. Anne wrote him with synesthesia, too.

He feels deeply, but fails to foresee the emotional impact on others when he does not feel for people and hurts them (Claudia, for example, and the emotional impact him killing her would have on his relationship with Louis). He cannot really anticipate the repercussions, and therefore is then taken aback and hurt by said repercussions. (Which is why he ends up "readjusting continuously", in the show, too, he constantly tries to protect his own feelings, and reach his own emotional goal, but thereby hurts others... which then backfires.)

And yes, he feels entitled to what he does - and he does what he thinks best, regularly, even in the later books, which is imho part of the centuries of forced ruling as a coven leader. What he thinks is best does not always match with what others think is best though - which is, ironically, something he shares with Marius, who also often does what he thinks best, no matter the opinion of others.

[impressionism]

How ironic that the episode ends with a close up of Louis with a building burning in the background? That is what we call FORESHADOWING.

Again, this episode was great! I just loved so many things!

Claudia just in love with the fantastical elements of the théâtre des vampires and feeling excited and like she belongs and it’s gonna hurt so bad later. Such false hope! Oh goddddddddd.

Every time Armand and Louis were on the couch, I was like “wow they’re trying really hard to sell it” and to be fair, yeah, there’s love and affection there but everyone is a damn unreliable narrator, I was like what bullshit 🤣

Daniel, baby, you’re in danger! Something went down between he and Armand because that… is new but I feel like it ain’t. There’s some history with Daniel and Armand and not like a one-nighter imo.

Jacob said I want that Emmy and we’re gonna give it to him! I love how torn and distraught Louis is but then when he basically mind games Daniel, you remember he is a creature and he can be very unsettling.

Memory is THE monster cos… I.. it’s like every Sunday they up the game. Everyone is so good. I just live for this and I have something to look forward to on Sundays!

[monstersinthecosmos]

buncha discourse a year or so back about how Marius and Daniel are both complete people without Armand (agreed) and that acknowledging the way Armand sort of haunts their relationship means we're taking agency away from Daniel as a whole person (vehemently disagree) and basically I just think, it's very short sighted to look at a relationship like Marius & Daniel's and NOT acknowledge the empty space of Armand between them.

Of course!!!!! We must acknowledge that fanworks and fandom are about transformative work and someone can easily devote time & energy to writing fics where Armand is never acknowledged once if that's what they want, but it's not what I want! It's not how I prefer to approach them!

I think there's something very salient about Armand's absence between them! I want us to spend time with it! I want to ask, when Daniel is at his worst, how much of this is Armand's fault? And I want to ask, when Marius nurses him through it, how much guilt does he feel? How might he look at Armand's behavior as a maker and wonder if he fucked up, if he did wrong by Armand by not being a better maker himself, if this could've been avoided?

It's such incredible source of trauma to look at--for Marius, I think it's a matter of "He behaves this way because I couldn't keep him safe, and I didn't rescue him, and I didn't rescue him because I couldn't reconcile how betrayed and triggered I felt by his cult, and if I had taken care of Santino and taken the cult seriously all along, this could have been avoided."

And for Daniel, we have to remember it's not JUST that he had a bad turning, that he's sensory-overloaded and bad at vampiring, but this is the nastiest breakup of his life! Especially considering that like, it's so much beyond being a marriage of sorts--TILL DEATH DO US PART except they'll never die. It must have hurt him so badly. And like, he was 20 when his life effectively ended, so it's entirely possible that this is his ONLY real bad breakup, and this was his only like actual adult relationship.

But even for him, I love thinking about how badly Armand hurt him, but as he gets to know Marius and understand the situation better, and understand Why Armand is Like That, there's such a potent space for forgiveness and empathy.

I like thinking about Daniel coming out of it slowly and allowing Marius to see his real personality, and all the space where they get to know each other and care for each other. It's not unlike the Devil's Minion--growing something where there was something else. With Armand it was fear and revulsion that become familiar and passionate. With Marius it starts with caretaking and confusion, and as he gets ahold of himself and things come into focus they can get to know each other as people.

idk I just really love this triangle in VC and the dynamics are really fascinating to me, and I'm happy that I've been poking at it and dissecting it for Vamptember, and I hope my haters of the past who told me I was stupid for approaching this way know that they can simply keep scrolling and write their own fics if they don't like it! :)

[wizardpink]

Sometimes I think the fandom's desperate desire for Lestat to have been mind controlled at the trial is just grasping at straws to acquit Lestat of any complicity in the whole thing. Like, why do you want him to be the innocent and wronged hero so bad? That is so boring. How is it that Louis was able to kill the whole coven but Lestat, who has "the blood of Akasha" in him, and had days to weeks to prepare a plan in advance, did nothing to stop them until the last second? And in fact, it meant nothing because Claudia and Madeleine still burned and Armand had to be the one to raise Louis from the coffin? He couldn't even find a way to warn them before the trial? Why is it that even Louis, who was betrayed, lynched, and buried alive is able to reflect back on the events that led him there and say "actually, I did make mistakes. I did do evil things and contribute to hurting people I loved." But we can't accept that Lestat did as well? It had to be the big bad evil Paris coven that was all powerful until they all died in a single night to one vampire? That is so uninteresting to me.