#i feel like these two are The stereotypical autism things to like

[activemagnesiumcream3000]

devastating news my gimmick blog is now being an autistic little freak about trains and wizards

gimmick blog except the gimmick is just im an autistic little freak who says things that make no sense

[aroaceleovaldez]

in your most recent tyson post, you said something about leo being distinctly autistic-coded and I was wondering if you could elaborate on that? it sounds really interesting (sorry if you've already posted something on this, I couldn't find anything though)

Of course! I do have a specific tag for talking about Leo's autistic-coding/traits - [here], and [one for Nico as well].

The main aspects with Leo being autistic-coded actually have a lot to do with Nico being autistic-coded, because it's the comparisons between the two that most clearly indicate Leo is autistic-coded rather than it just being his ADHD or etc.

So with Nico being autistic-coded, it's very clear in the Titan's Curse that he's intended to be autistic. First, the first series has a repeating pattern of secondary characters being very distinctly neurodivergent-coded in different ways (Annabeth's adhd/dyslexia, Tyson's down syndrome-coding, Nico's autism-coding). With Nico's introduction, he's pretty stereotypically autistic and we're given a lot of descriptors about him that are notably not attributed to him being ADHD, like it would be for other demigod characters. He doesn't register social cues such as people getting annoyed at him, he's asking/making inappropriate or impolite questions/comments, he gets particularly upset about change (such as Bianca joining the Hunt) and generally gets emotional, and one of his most notable traits he's introduced with is the fact that he has a special interest (MythoMagic) - and we're shown that this special interest particularly colors how Nico navigates the world. While ADHD has hyperfixations, we don't really get much acknowledgement of hyperfixations with demigods usually - Annabeth gets a little, but most others don't and it's not nearly as focused-in on as Nico's is.

Then as the series continues we see these traits stick with him and him start to show or voice more traits that similarly indicate he's autistic: He regularly mentions how he doesn't understand living people and prefers the company of the dead (social issues). He has more notable stims than other demigods (twisting his ring, fiddling with bones, etc). He's indicated to have strong sensory preferences (usually wearing mostly black/aversion to bright colors, usually wearing layers/his coat, multiple times he's described as wearing loose/baggy clothing or clothes too big for him). He has specific comfort items (his ring, likely his jacket(s) as well). We later get even more information about his special interests (Mythomagic/mythology/history and an older interest in pirates - the latter he specifically notes likely heavily influenced his feelings towards Percy). He struggles with emotions and facial expressions and tone. He struggles particularly with ostracism and feeling like he doesn't fit in and has something distinctly different about him from the people around him (who notably, all have ADHD, which indicates it isn't the ADHD that's making him feel that way), and other characters regularly describe him as being off-putting because of his strange behaviors - again, different from specific ADHD traits they recognize. And that last point is kind of notable because we have Hazel and Bianca for comparison - we know people are off-put by both Nico and Hazel because of being children of Hades/Pluto and their powers/aura, but other characters get past that general feeling of discomfort way faster with Hazel. And even after characters get past the death stuff with Nico, there's a second thing that they aren't moving past that isn't a factor with Hazel (Nico's autism).

So that brings us to Leo - Leo is paralleled to Nico a lot. And there's some very specific traits about him that we know are autistic-coding because of how they're used with Nico: He similarly struggles with social cues/etc, and in a very similar parallel to Nico describes how he prefers the company of machines to people because machines make more sense to him. He has similar types of clothing/sensory preferences (again some stuff with layers but also - pockets! He likes having pockets and things to put stuff in! He's even introduced as having a jacket with lots of pockets), and he has a distinct special interest (machinery) that we specifically know heavily influences how he views and navigates the world (constantly comparing things to machinery, describing things with machinery metaphors/terminology, etc etc). He even describes his entire general worldview to Hazel and it's a machine metaphor. He also similarly struggles with ostracization like Nico does, the only difference being that Leo specifically puts on a persona to compensate for areas he knows he's lacking in and very explicitly describes it as a means to make people like him, because without it he normally struggles to fit in (He's masking!). We also see notes of characters describing that similar discomfort with Leo's behaviors that they do with Nico, except without the aura of death this time. And when we're in Leo's POVs we see a very stark difference between his masking and his actual personality/behaviors such as his internal dialogues or how he behaves when he's alone. Also, like Nico, he stims more than other demigods, though for Leo it's more attributed to his ADHD. Leo also, more often than most, similarly struggles with tone and reading the room, such as making misplaced jokes/comments or etc.

But yeah! It's really interesting. Also it's just a fun thing that ADHD/dyslexia and autism have comorbidity, so it makes sense that we see demigods who are also autistic. It's also really fun to look at how other characters are coded in the series, what coding looks like in the riordanverse specifically (usually it's tied into the mythological stuff - like Chiron being in a wheelchair but he's actually a centaur, Grover being introduced as having a muscular disease but he's actually a satyr, demigods having adhd/dyslexia, Tyson being coded as having down syndrome but he's a cyclops, etc etc - it's a lot of specific metaphor stuff that I've talked about a bit before), and to look at how characters are compared to one another.

[miffysrambles]

Sun Wukong x autistic reader?

Examples on what traits autistic people have: Autistic people will have a special interest and Have a hard time understanding when someone is joking/messing around or if they are actually being serious.

Wukong With an Autistic! S/O

(I tried not to stereotype and do my own research, hope you enjoy!) (I'm actually looking to get tested for ASD and ADHD rn loll)

Wukong loves hearing you talk about your special interest, the passion in your eyes, and the way you move your hands around in an eager manner is so awesome to him.

To the point, he will make mental notes of whatever facts you tell him and will geek out with you if you bring up his notes (even if he has no idea what it means!)

His gold eyes will sparkle as he talks to you about your special interest as his tail wags back and forth, he loves seeing you smile and talk about things you love!

He’ll indulge in your special interest with you, whether it’s watching a show or reading a book with you to the point he becomes a fan himself.

‘My partner lovezz this (media) so I do too!’ Wukong actually commented this on a video.

When you stim when you’re happy, oh Gods, he gets so excited!

His tail wags all over the place!

From the studying he did on autism, he knows you do it when you feel intense emotions and he was able to figure out which stim you do when you’re happy.

If you have a hard time understanding tone, don’t worry! He will be straight and upfront if he is joking with you.

“It's ok, I’m just playing with you peaches! I was just doing a little goof, I’m not serious.”

He holds your hands as he tells you, giving you a genuine smile as he rubs the back of your hands with his thumbs.

I know not everyone who is autistic experiences an uncomfortable response to touch so I will do headcanons for both ways!

If you don’t like people touching you when you feel overstimulated and/or experience sensory overload, he will absolutely get you out of that situation into your safe place and give you space.

He is absolutely not mad if you need a minute!

He’ll slip drawings of the two of you underneath the crack of your bedroom door to let you know he’s there for you and will always be there.

If you prefer to be held when you are overstimulated and/or experience sensory overload, get in his arms right now!

He will hold you for as long as you need, softly rubbing your back as he whispers sweet nothings into your ear.

“It’s ok, you’re safe. Take your time. I’m here and I’ll always be here peaches.”

If you’re ok with it when he asks permission, he will plant kisses all over your face as another way to show you he loves you and he is there for you, always.

Makes sure everything that makes you feel safe (stuffed animals, snacks, etc) is present for you and lets you relax for as long as you need.

He loves you oh so much!

[keiriiz]

General Chrollo Headcanons!

I will be making a separate post for my romantic/relationship headcanons of him! I’m a bit nervous because I know I’m in the minority with some of my views however I’m up for making a second part to this as this definitely isn’t all, or even expanding on certain things if anyone’s interest. My request box is always open ✨

✥ Chrollo has Autism Spectrum Disorder. Aside from his childhood trauma, this can also affect his ability to identify and express his emotions. He’s also a master of masking, but if he’s out and overwhelmed, he’s definitely stimming with his fingers when he places his hands in his pockets.

✥ Chrollo Lucilfer and “Boss” started off as two different identities. Being the Head of the Phantom Troupe was merely another role however over the years, Chrollo started to lose his individuality. He’s gotten lost in the idea of being a villain that being himself sometimes feels foreign, or he might not recognize it when that side of him comes out. It wasn’t just Sarasa that died that day, but a piece of himself as well.

✥ Chrollo himself is a bit childish. He gets a small glint of genuine joy in his eyes when he’s talking about something he’s passionate about. Whether it’s a book series, the Power Cleaners, or certain species of arachnid. Seeing that side of him truly is something as it only comes out when he’s completely comfortable.

✥ On the other hand of that not, when he’s upset this also leads to him being pretty impulsive and making rather rash decisions. Chrollo is a master strategist but that can fall apart when pushed enough.

✥ Chrollo hums to himself when there’s a toon he’s fond of playing. Most times it’s subconsciously and he doesn’t even catch himself doing so unless it’s pointed out to him.

✥ This man hates crowds of people. Not being able to keep track of what everyone’s doing, the heat, the smell- It’s completely awful to him. It’s more overwhelming than most heists and if not on a job he will avoid them at all costs.

✥ Chrollo is very comfortable in his gender as a cis man but often indulges in things that are stereotypically feminine. Make up, painting his nails, even sporting a bit of women’s garments into his every day style.

✥ The Troupe as a whole is a found family of sorts, but Chrollo holds a particular closeness with the original members. The Spider he was closest with overall being Pakunoda.

✥ Given what we know about Nen, I believe Chrollo was born as a natural conjuror. Though with him changing as a person and honing his Nen for those three years, his aura adapted to specialization.

✥ Chrollo’s ethnicity is Japanese Italian. A true wasian man if I do say so myself. Though I feel he’s a bit more in touch with his Japanese heritage.

✥ He returns a lot to Meteor City outside of his Troupe affairs. He’s somewhat famous there and you bet there’s kids running up to him, gently tugging at his coat asking him to tell them about his “adventures”. Chrollo of course does so on his free time, sharing stories of their heists though somewhat spinning it to paint them as heroes akin to the Power Cleaners.

✥ Chrollo doesn’t kill innocent people unless they’re accidentally caught in the crossfire or truly it’s necessary like how he used the crowd in his fight with Hisoka.

✥ Chrollo suffers from insomnia due to being plagued by night terrors though aside from that he can honestly fall asleep anywhere if tired enough. It doesn’t matter if it’s the hair ground of the forest or a nice bed, he’ll make due.

✥ Of course if given a bed, you will definitely catch this man hugging/cuddling his pillow. And he definitely prefers to be completely smothered in blankets and pillows to feel like he’s been held. (I’ll say it now, he’s a little spoon)

✥ Chrollo is definitely a light weight when it comes to alcohol. He’s buzzed on two cheap beers so he’s always careful to restrain himself in that regard.

✥ He is a S class NERD. Chrollo will shame movie or show adaptations for their inaccuracies to their book counterparts. If someone brings up an obscure topic that he just so happened to read about, he’s making his knowledge known.

✥ Pretty much everyone is aware of Chrollo’s love for pudding but I’m here to say his love for sweets is endless. Cakes, ice cream, candies, chocolate- he literally can’t get enough. And bet your ass he’s suffered a deal of tooth pain during his younger years because of it. Though he’s good on his dental hygiene as an adult.

✥ Chrollo can naturally be quite competitive. Whether he’s playing chess or just entertaining a Troupe member’s game of hang man. He’s always going for the win.

✥ When he’s not masking, Chrollo’s genuine laugh is truly adorable. On the rare occasion he might even snort. (He’ll always deny that he did though)

✥ Being from Meteor City, Chrollo is on the most accepting and least judgmental people when it comes to LGBTQ, race, religion/culture, mental disorders, or any physical differences. He didn’t even know something like being gay or trans was looking down on in certain places of the world.

I hope you guys appreciate these. I truly can ramble about this man all day if you really want ❤️

[woobifykamukura]

ghdsfkjghdsf is that a common thing?

I don't really get how he'd be misdiagnosed anyway; it would need brain scans, especially since it's so rare at his age, and if anything it would have been misdiagnosed as other conditions for a while. Only going off cry-stars here- I have no expertise myself- but she's said that can happen and there was a recent case in Japan where a young guy's dementia was mistaken for depression for ages.

If we doubt Komaeda's FTD it can only be via doubting his honesty imo (but I still think he's telling the truth). I also love seeing analyses of him through the lenses of other disorders as comorbid instead of alternative diagnoses- especially autism, but I've seen interesting takes wrt OCD and BPD too- but canonically I feel like bvFTD, extreme post-traumatic stress and political radicalisation adequately explain his issues.

TO BE FAIR it probably isnt As common as i think it is, i just saw one reddit post thst explicitly claimed the FTD was a misdiagnosis and that it totally makes way more sense for komaeda to have autism and bpd, and a surprisung number of people... agreed? for some reason??

which i need to state for the record a) i am autistic myself and b) have absolutely zero problems with headcanons, even if they arent ones i ascribe to personally

what i DO have a problem with is people erasing canon neurodivergencies and/or erasing traits CENTRAL to a character in order to square-peg-round-hole the headcanon THEY have as the most correct one

"nagito has ftd and was autistic before that?" cool! neat! seeing how those two disorders being comorbid with each other could be really interesting!

"nagito does NOT have ftd, the devs were wrong, they actually wrote an autistic character and didnt realize it" stop talking.

this is very like, misanthropic i guess but after SO MUCH SHIT ive seen it just speaks to an unwillingness to empathize with or relate to anyone that isnt exactly like you. and you cant just headcanon real people around you with Misdiagnosed Autistic (most.... times....) so this pops up in fiction

like. i am autistic! i also have two (2) personality disorders, and neither is bpd. this has led to a non negligible amount of autistic people completely stereotyping my other disorders as evil in order to prop themselves up ("i thought i was a narcissist/sociopath, which wouldve been awful, but really i was just autistic! phew!!" with implicit, sometimes EXPLICIT value judgements being made)

i have had a friend i had in real life, to my face, say he didn't believe i had either personality disorder and really i was secretly just autistic

...if we had been better friends, maybe he would've known me well enough to know that that's almost... comically untrue. lol

so in my opinion there do exist a certain minority of autistic people who see autism as the only neurodivergency that Matters, or at least the one that matters the most. and the only way they can feel any sympathy for anyone else is if they are also autistic

and i know this is a minority! and i just see it a lot because i am an autist in fandom and a lot of other autistic people are also in fandom! AND that this is a mindset prone to ANY minority- most people think their Problem is the Worst Problem, it just... happens. however i am just as irrational and prone to biases as anyone else and ive chosen this as my completely irrelevant hill to die on

that one reddit post made me so goddamn mad bc of All This PLUS its double insulting when someone says "i have a special interest in psychology!" as a way to say theyre extremely knowledgable, and doing genuine analysis with the lens of "i am looking at the text and trying to make an objective diagnosis" and then STILL DO THIS!!! because they have this veneer of "im just a guy asking questions" before diving right into a weirdly consspiratory subset of "everyones an idiot about mental health except for ME"

...which tbf i dont think that about myself. i am very good at writing a wide variety of mental illness due to a combination of research and life experience BUT i could really only tell you like. actual non-surface level FACTS about aspd and to a lesser extent, npd. because thats what i chose to focus on. there are far and away lots more people that know more about me about other things, and im fine wit that

i am however also aware of this extremely hyperspecific social phenominon. and thus it is my burden to bear. my mountainous molehill.

also r/danganronpa just fucking sucks like in general. every time i see a kokichi opinion there i get a little closer to pulling the trigger. i think the real moral here is reddit is garbage and should not be used for anything other than product reviews

(also fwiw i agree w ur personal take at the end, with a lil bit of ocd tendencies that like, started off manageable and nowhere near diagnostic level badness, since things he might do to manage his cycle and even the constant thinking about it are very much reminiscent of obsessions and compulsions. but ftd in of itself can cause ocd symptoms so after that it got... worse. thats my personal take on it ^^)

[darkstarofchaos]

Ableism in Transformers: EarthSpark

So I didn't plan to post this during Disability Pride Month (I actually started writing it before Season 2 came out), but you know what, it's thematically appropriate, this post was nearly done anyway, might as well finish it off.

Also, happy Disability Pride Month.

Transformers historically does not handle disability well. From the earliest days of Chip Chase - a disabled character - declaring that no one is truly disabled as long as they have courage, to TFA Blitzwing being a DID stereotype and beyond, ableism runs rampant in the franchise. So when EarthSpark made Dot disabled - thus giving us a disabled character who isn't the villain or a stereotype - I actually thought it was a step in the right direction.

Then I saw someone point out that the hero got the disability that can be hidden, while the villain's disability is scary and deforming. And you know what? They're right. In fact, not only is Mandroid's disability portrayed in a far more disturbing way, Dot's disability just never comes up outside of plot-relevant moments (this includes episodic plots like that of Bear Necessities).

I'll come back to Mandroid's Disabled Villain status later, but suffice to say, the show's ableism only gets worse as it goes on. Credit where credit is due, I liked the bit in Bear Necessities where Nightshade learns not to mess with Dot's prostheses. That was a good message. But we do see a lot of other characters fall into ableist tropes. I might miss a couple, but here's at least some of the major ones (under the cut for length, but also, minor references to Season 2 ahead):

Jawbreaker Jawbreaker is widely perceived by fans as having autism, and while he's not confirmed as such, his struggle finding an altmode does feel like an analogue for delayed development. Which makes it kind of infantilizing that he's the one portrayed as sweet and naive. Yes, he's very young and socially isolated, and yes, people mature at different rates. But his siblings are also young and isolated, and they all get to grow as characters very quickly (well, most of them).

Twitch, Thrash, and Hashtag all start in a similar place of innocent enthusiasm, but their personalities develop beyond that within a few episodes. Twitch is shown to be more responsible than Thrash long before she takes on a leadership role, Thrash's initial rebelliousness fits well with his later cynicism about inheriting the consequences of the war, and while Hashtag matures a bit more slowly than her older siblings, she has distinct hobbies and interests. Nightshade doesn't really have much emotional development, but even they have clear interests (anyone who says their character revolves around being nonbinary is willfully ignoring both their scientific proclivity and their instant and enthusiastic attachment to a sci-fi/fantasy novel).

None of the triplets get as much development as their older siblings (yes, I'm saying that Thrash, largely ignored by the narrative, gets more development than they do. I'll talk more about Hashtag in a minute), but two of the three at least have their own identity. But what about Jawbreaker? What does he like to do when he's on his own? What are his interests? Aside from a passing mention of wrestling, I have no idea. There's not a whole lot to his character except "sweet", "naive", and "wants an altmode".

Don't get me wrong, I like Jawbreaker. And it's not ableist to show a character feeling left out or less capable because he can't do things other kids his age can. But he should have been allowed to develop as a character, regardless of what he can or can't do, and he wasn't given that. His entire motivation and defining trait prior to having an altmode was wanting one, and lamenting his inability to help the others at various points because he doesn't have one.

Originally, I finished the above paragraph by saying that has to change now that he does have an altmode. However, I can no longer say that because Season 2 took all the problems of Season 1 and made them worse. He still has no motivation or personal goals outside of those shared by the group, still has no clear interests, and his naivety has been boosted to socially oblivious, overly trusting, and a stereotype of chattiness who can be outright told he's bothering someone and keep doing it. Even thought he's more confident now (and good for him, truly), his portrayal has somehow become more infantilizing. Someone give this mech a hobby and a focus episode that isn't about how sweet and naive he is, please.

Grimlock Soooo. Character with trauma gets triggered and attacks people. We're really going there, huh.

Honestly, I'm not sure I need to say more about this. Grimlock's episode was one of the most disappointing S1 episodes to me for a lot of reasons, but his rampage at the end was the icing on the cake. Even if you assume Grimlock was one of the (rare) cases of trauma leading to a violent reaction, literally nothing was forcing him to go into town. If he was overwhelmed and upset, there is no reason why he would beeline to the most stimulating area possible instead of literally any other direction that wasn't as busy. Entire latter half of the episode was just manufactured drama to hit a robot battle quota.

(Random PSA, Grimlock does not have PTSD. Not yet anyway. A diagnosis of PTSD requires symptoms to last at least a month. If they resolve sooner, it would be Acute Stress Disorder instead).

Additional tangent, but I personally think that episode should have been a Hashtag episode. Or at very least, her side role should have been more relevant to the fact that she and Grimlock both experienced the same thing. Yes, Jawbreaker needed to get his altmode, and I understand making him the focus of the episode because of it, but there would have been plenty of time for Hashtag to have a talk with Grimlock or one of the other adults if the whole rampage thing was cut. Maybe she couldn't tell Elita what happened to her because the kids weren't supposed to be out that night, but she could have asked if Grimlock was okay and learned a bit about trauma that way. And it would have been a natural steppingstone to her being surprisingly insightful with Starscream later.

But no. We needed "dino rage". Because apparently some people are just inherently violent. Really do not like that episode. And speaking of episodes I don't like:

Robby I know this post is the ableism edition and not the "things happen because plot" edition, but I just need to throw out there that the entire episode where Robby got hurt should not have happened. The entire series is about keeping the Terrans hidden from GHOST, neither Dot nor Optimus should have even considered that a secret field trip to GHOST Headquarters might be a good idea. Not for the human kids, and especially not for the robot kids.

Anyway.

Not gonna lie, I thought they were going to go in more of a chronic illness direction with Robby when he was struggling in the following episode. He seemed fine apart from not being able to keep up with the others (okay, not fine, but I didn't look at him and think, ah yes, this child is dying. No one was treating it like it was that serious). I don't think it would have been too dark, either - certainly not as dark as Robby almost dying to this thing twice - because there are plenty of kids out there with acquired disabilities. It happens (in retrospect, the action cartoon for kids was not going to take one of the main kids out of the action, but I still feel like it was a reasonable assumption at the time).

And of course, we heal the mysterious illness with magic in the end. Even though they could have just, y'know. Made it nonlethal and chronic, and then they wouldn't have needed a magical cure. Or even just nonlethal and lingering, there were plenty of options apart from deadly and cured by magic. I guess I can't complain too much about the magical cure when the illness might have been magical in origin, but honestly, if I can't complain about that, I'm just gonna complain about the lack of explanation regarding the illness instead.

Twitch Honorable mention goes to Twitch having an optic broken and then magically repaired a minute later. I actually didn't mind the magical life tower that much - the healing powers were foreshadowed with the above Robby arc, it may have been a copout, but it was a copout that made sense with the established story - but I was really annoyed that Twitch's optic got repaired. Specifically because I had an OC once who was blind in one eye, and while roleplaying with my brother, he decided to magically heal the character. Magical eye-healing has been a weirdly specific pet peeve ever since.

Hardtop Honorable mention #2 goes to Hardtop, not because of the show, but because of the viewers who keep asking why his arm isn't fixed. Neither side has a medic, and it's unlikely the Decepticons have the knowledge or the resources for that kind of repair. I'm sure Hardtop, like many disabled people, would love to get the medical help he needs. Alas, that requires having access to it. And he doesn't.

I guess we should get to the elephant in the room now, shouldn't we?

Mandroid So. Yeah. Disabled villain who's a villain because he's disabled trope.

I gotta be honest, I had no interest in Mandroid as a character. We didn't get enough time with the villains to fully develop more than one, and I'd rather have seen more focus on the leader of the evil organization that the heroes were working with (I am admittedly biased, since "protagonists are forced to work with antagonists who have all the power" is a favorite of mine and we don't see it enough). But of the characters who actually needed more development, we could have used a few more sentences for Mandroid. We could have had them, too.

I don't have a problem with a villain claiming their path to villainy started when they were disabled. I don't even necessarily mind if they believe it, because harmful people will use whatever they can to excuse harmful behavior, including disabilities. But if your villain is going to use it as an excuse, it needs to be clear that it is an excuse: not "well, I was disabled too, and I'm not a villain", but "they were always the kind of person who would do something like this".

To put it another way, Mandroid's hatred for Cybertronians should predate his becoming disabled. At bare minimum, he should have been predisposed towards hating them (not seeing them as people, working with them only grudgingly, resenting both factions for bringing their war to Earth, etc). This way, he's already antagonistic towards them before becoming disabled, and it's a logical step to blame Cybertronians as a whole for his injury. And we even had a means of learning this information, because Alex knew him. A bit more insight into that history could have told us a lot about what kind of person Mandroid was before the war.

Would this have fixed the problem? Maybe not. Frankly, the best solution would probably have been to make his disability incidental to his motivation and not the reason he started down this path. But disabled people are still people, and sometimes people suck. Better to show that they always sucked than to make them suck because they're disabled.

[woah-uhuh-uhuh-uhuh]

(ALMOST) EVERYTHING I NOTICED FROM BAC BMC

NOTE: spot check me!

It was the Two Rivers script, but I still haven't read the whole Two Rivers script so if I mention something I noticed that’s actually just… in the script… lmk!

Also: if you also saw the BAC production (or if you are the BAC people???) and I missed something, let me know!!! Literally anything at all I will put it here I’d love to approach comprehensiveness!!

ALSO: Spoilers! If you plan on going to Jake’s Halloween Party maybe wait? Or don’t!!

CHARACTERS

Madeline

Putting Madeline here because the first thing I noticed in the whole show is she’s ACTUALLY A FRANCOPHILE and it’s so funny ldksjfjsfksdlf. She wears a beret, and people put on a stereotypical French accent whenever they quote her djslkfjsfkfds And during the play backstage someone (I think Chloe?) runs up to her, smacks her beret off and yells “You’re not French!”

Jeremy

OH oh oh oh oh. Bac Jeremy my beloved…. I swear like 30% of Christine’s autism was generously donated to Jeremy for this production jlkdsfjdls

He has this habit where he’ll put his hands in his cardigan pockets and push his them around in front of him or on his body to feel the tension of the jacket stretching. Patrick said this quirk was based on a neurodivergent kid he knows. I don’t have photo evidence and IDK how to describe it perfectly but i did draw it here (x). It wasn't exactly like that though OTL

He does it whenever he’s nervous (so almost CONSTANTLY) up until BMC P.1 when the SQUIP tells him to take his hands out of his pockets. During that song you can see him trying to put his hands back safe in his pockets but afterwards he never does it again, even after The Play. He also doesn’t do it when he’s with Michael, even at the beginning, so I take it to mean it goes away when he’s comfortable. 

I think he flinches and cowers a lot (compared to other Jeremys, that is). Whenever Rich surprises him, Jeremy jumps and protectively throws his arms over his face. I think he reacts similarly to other people a few times - I don’t remember when exactly though… There’s also several times where he’ll stand totally petrified out of fear, like when Rich is writing “boyf” or when Chloe’s coming onto him. By all of this I basically mean it’s really obvious he’s been physically abused (presumably by Rich).

Just in general, his freakouts are very physical, he’ll kinda do these stiff arm movements or cover his face in his elbow etc. Off the top of my head this happens during Upgrade and also at the end of The Play when Christine’s singing to him.

All this to say he has a very very visible physicality to his awkwardness and I love it. I don’t just mean that on a character acting level, I also mean like if you’re sitting behind him in class your attention will actively be caught by his awkwardness. 

He also has a deeper register which he uses mostly in a joke context? He used it in normal conversation a few times too, I think more towards the end.

I noticed him standing just a little pigeon-toed near the beginning. I don’t know if this carried through the whole thing though.

Clothes: his cardigan is blackish with a blue outline, and he wears it over a green shirt with a question mark (I perceived it as a Gravity Falls shirt but might be wrong). The eminem shirt is black and I dont remember what he wears it with…. At the party he has a cyborg shirt and a visor, and after the party he has a white shirt with a flannel and khakis (or maybe light corduroys). In VIMH he has another fandom shirt on but I don’t remember what it was sorry it was 11pm ljfsdlkfjdslkfs

Its so obvious I’m a Jeremy stan this entry is the largest one sorry 🧍

Mr. Heere

He seemed less depressed and more just out of touch in this one? During Two Player Game, he seems decently chipper, if annoyed, though of course he’s still unable to dress himself and unwilling to put genuine effort in with his son. 

When he says “Good talk” he gives Jeremy a friendly shoulder punch. Right before Pants Song, as usual, he says “I could ground you!” Jeremy says “I don’t think you could,” and gives his dad the same shoulder punch while saying “Good talk.” AAAAAAH.

Michael

He seemed less frenetic and anxious than the Troy!Michael I’m used to (sorry that’s my only reference for Michael lol). 

He was generally loud and exuberant. A very excitable but down-to-earth Michael. 

MITB was amazing. I was nervous because it’s obviously (obviously) the best song so there’s a lot of pressure but no it was done perfectly. Sad as fuck. Perhaps moreso because this Michael was especially normal until now. (Also because pre-MITB Jeremy was extra mean in this production)

For some reason, I found it easier to picture this Michael being a childhood & school friend? Maybe just because this production seriously pulled my psyche straight back to highschool in a way the others haven’t been able to lol. 

I maybe got the sense that he’s really trying to act like he doesn’t care as much about Jeremy as he does. 

BTW I’m obsessed with the fact that his idea of a creeper costume is a mask and a shirt that just says creeps on it. I know that’s kinda textual at this point but taken together with the mask its lkesdjfsdjflksdf

Christine

Amazing ballet (?) choreography going on during her intro. I think that might be standard Christine choreo but still! Stunning.

I could actually picture her as an averagely popular girl in this one? Not sure why. Maybe more nervous in her relationships but more confident in other contexts, but I could be pulling that out of my ass. 

I could also be thinking this because she has cool hair (space buns!) and likes Taylor Swift in this one. 

Some of her songs had these really melancholy notes where I didn’t expect them - particularly in GTIKBI Reprise (/pos! I was like oh shit!!! every time)

Rich

He has painted nails! They’re black. 

He had fruity energy the whole time but it got progressively more intense. No I can’t elaborate actually I don’t know why I perceived it like this but I did sldjkfsf

After he comes out it gets more explicit; he starts wearing a pink headband in VIMH (he also gains glasses I think? Unless they’re still Michael’s) and during bows he flashed a paper fan that had the gay flag inside. 

IMO, it was implied that the house fire was a suicide attempt. I say this for purely textual reasons -  because he doesn’t mention trying getting the SQUIP out of his head, and because Jeremy’s SQUIP later implies it was a suicide attempt. But his behavior around the fire - looking dazed while rhythmically flicking a lighter - could also indicate squipzophrenia. (Maybe it’s the same amount of implied as usual - To be fair, I’ve never really understood why Rich set a fire in the first place…)

Brooke

Very wholesome and I love her. IDK Broadway Brooke is very campy, and BAC Brooke is more like a normal sweet girl but maybe that’s just me 

Compared to Broadway, way more respectful of Jeremy’s space. She doesn’t really try to physically seduce him in upgrade instead they just have a cute lil conversation. Also when she tells Jeremy she got cheated on, she doesn’t initiate contact by petting his hair (like in Broadway) - instead the roles are reversed and they hold hands comfortingly, and Jeremy is the one to escalate that by rubbing her hand in a slightly forward way. 

Her French was awful!!! sdjkfldjsfkdsf It was the whole time but Tres Magnifique = "Trays Mag-nuh-Fike" is the one that really killed me

Chloe

Not to be backhanded… but she was really good at being a bitch??? Especially the scene where she’s giving Christine advice

Maybe closetedly wlw based on the delivery of “I like gay people” and the events of The Play??

The Chloe Jenna friendship intrigues me so much… what’s going on there…

Jenna 

Sadder than Broadway Jenna… 

When Chloe mentions her in play rehearsal she jumps up from across the room and says “I’m here!!” to no reaction.

Later in Smartphone Hour -  J: “....because you are my closest friend-” C: “No I’m not” J: “Yeah I know….” Jenna sounds kinda genuinely bummed lol. Either she wasn’t expecting that or she’s *very* aware of it and it’s making her sad. My impression was more the latter.

During VIMH she’s wearing a sweater that’s colored like the lesbian flag??? (EDIT: the actor, Diana, said this was intentional and her Jenna is a lesbian!)

Idk idk actor so good she made me care so much more about Jenna dsfljdf

Jake

Maybe a touch more upfront about the fact that he feels a lot of pressure in his life

He was dumb <3

Mrs. Reyes

She’s a woman in this one!

She has a hippie thing going on i think?? Like a boho mom (affectionate)

Pronounces Reyes with a (several second long) rolled R at the beginning

Doesn’t do the stiff announcer-like angle that the broadway guy does. Her comedy is more crazy cat ladyish

The hot pocket breaks were preceded by an actual alarm sound I think???? bonkers fkljd

Ensemble

BIG ENSEMBLE WAS SO FUN…. They had so many funny bits going on in the background it was soooo good and another reason I wish I could watch it over and over because I couldn’t be paying attention to everything at once OTL

Scene by scene

Organized by song, but scene notes are in there too!

More Than Survive

"Madeline was all like-" *bad french accent* "ohohoho, I'll only sleep with you if you beat me at ze pool~"

“Oh my god he is like totally getting off on that” ← right before this Jeremy starts pointing at them awkwardly from a distance, I think in an attempt to get to his locker?? 

“I like gay people” - the way Chloe says this is kinda like “idk what the big deal is because *i* think gay people are soooo neat” which got a lot of audience laugh. I think she was talking to Jenna but I don’t remember 

“I don’t wanna be a baller” (or whenever the class scene is) - Jeremy’s sitting in the back of class and everyone turns to throw paper balls at him. I was like oh my god he’s being genuinely bullied so hard in this one…. Then again maybe that’s just how he feels?

There’s this awesome chair choreo at the end where everyone’s laying down chairs in front of Jeremy for him to walk on and taking them away from the back to put back in the front as he makes his way downstage.

Scene: Michael's "You don't have to do this!" kind of came across as a shout of protest. (But of course still tempered with, "of course i'll make fun of you forever if you don't)

Play Rehearsal

"This is where you meet for the swim team" --- Instead of looking confused, Jeremy immediately acts like ok byeee - he might be eager to back out of the conversation and/or immediately accepts her answer as literal and wants to leave asap out of embarrassment.

“I also have a touch of ADD” - she trails off and stands there kind of in a daze for a moment, before remembering that she’s in the middle of a song. 

“And can I mention that was really one of my best roles, DID YOU SEE THAT?!" She shouts this very proudly. And after her 'do you find that?' bit she doesn’t give Jeremy time to even try to respond, so it’s a little less rude lol. 

Jeremy was very anxious, and somewhat in a bad way? As in the exchange was a bit off-putting to him.

Scene: “thank god the popular kids are here” - there are SO MANY kids entering. I’m not sure what to make of it! Popular as in everyone’s popular compared to Jeremy and Christine? Or is this a whole clique? Or is Reyes just talking about the popular kids and the other guys also just show up? 

Mrs. Reyes: ~"Our funds will be diverted. To the frisbee golf team. What even is frisbee golf?" Across the room, Jake holds up a frisbee and silently points at it, trying to get Reyes' attention. She doesn't notice.

After scene: Jake’s “pressure to be the best at everything” is said very genuinely, not for laughs at his arrogance which is how I usually read it

Squip Song

Rich actor KILLED it just gotta put that out there

“So it’s like….” Jeremy takes an extended moment to walk to the edge of the stall and look behind to make sure nobody’s there - “...drugs?”

In the end of the song, Rich rubs his dirty hands all over Jeremy's arm.

The Squip Enters

Scene: Payless: “Wolverine” was great djklsfjdsf I’ve never thought about him before. (It was also the actor’s birthday!) When they enter he’s playing the knife-finger game. He threatens Jeremy with the knife at some point (either “400 dollars” or “all sales are final!” I think?). I can’t really describe the character acting but he was very entertainingly unhinged. He's called “Scary Stockboy” in the script & playbill and I thought that was a misnomer until the scene happened lmao. No that was accurate. 

Scene: when they enter the food court there’s like a photo of a mall food court on the back wall but not from the perspective of the scene at all it was like a background that abstractly tells you where you are?? As someone who loves kitsch I enjoyed this, it happens with a few other scenes too 

There’s a couple making out obnoxiously at the mall that someone (I think it was Michael?) had to step over to get to the table. I think they had some great thematically relevant background acting in this scene but I cannot remember it exactly I am so sorry OTL

Michael is buying Ecto-Cooler! It tastes like ghosts.

Jeremy “mourns in his chili fries” by laying his head down on the table. Jake and Christine sit at the table together without noticing him. Then Jeremy pops up and they have the usual exchange (“I didn’t see you!” “Yeah, you’re kind of hard to notice”). I thought that was a really neat staging!! And it makes more sense why he even tries to talk to her in this scene lol

Mild discomfort - The first half Jeremy just stands next to the table and kinda screams in pain. Then the second half he falls to the ground and is thrashing, again mostly just in pain. (Pretty sure that’s how every production goes but I think the intensity of the spasming is pretty variable so I’m describing it here)

When the SQUIP first appears, he offers to appear as Kermit the Frog, Barack Obama, and Gilbert Gottfried, and does a little impression for each one:

The imitations the Squip does are as follows: Kermit the Frog “hi ho Kermit the frog here, we’re gonna fix your life Yayyyyy”, Obama “My fellow Squip, if sync up we can change this loser” and Gilbert Gottfried “So Grandma and the dog are on the table…” - Courtesy of director Chris Guell because I couldn't remember them OTL (thank you!!!)

Also in the middle of this Jeremy says "That's a terrible Obama impression..."

Be more Chill p.1

Brooke and Chloe are shopping on the upstage side of the clothes rack; when Jeremy picks out the girls shirt, Brooke appears through the gap in the clothes and surprises him.

After the song, one of the ensemble steals the clothes rack and the mall cop chases him off stage in a very cartoonishly stiff sprint.

Do you wanna ride?

After the first rejection, Brooke goes to Chloe, who points out the satchel she has belted around her waist. As she starts to sing again she slowly unbuckles it and holds it behind her back. 

Jeremy is very into it by the end and the girls have him dancing along with the music. I think you can see that in one of the promo videos too :P

Be More Chill p.2

Scene: When Jeremy’s going to bed after the mall, instead of sleepily singing, he uses a silly deep voice to say something like “yeah be more chill i’m gonna be more chill i’m gonna be so chill that ice is relatively warm”

After Rich talks to Jeremy (“hey, tallass, where’s my money?” and then they sync up) he spots a girl across the stage and yells “Hey, where’s my money?” then chases her down the hall. 

Guy that I’d Kinda be Into

Scene: during the rehearsal - JR: "Bring me patient zero!" Then Chloe, sitting on the ground, looks through her script for like 45 seconds until finding her line: "Cough!"

At “I’ve been activating your pheromones” - Jeremy starts and looks at his armpits, then as the song continues he slowly pulls his arms up to rest behind his head, it was very comedic djflkdsf. He also uses one hand to waft from his armpit before returning to that position. Guy...

I think this is also the scene he uses a script to hide his boner??

They were so cute at the end!!! Just sitting next to each other in rehearsal and kinda leaning in towards each other. Very real very high school. 

Upgrade

Scene: While Jeremy and SQUIP argue about Eminem, Brooke is (silently) describing the accident. She mimes hitting a hockey puck, then being impaled in the guts repeatedly.

Instead of literal bleachers (at least visually), Brooke and Jeremy go sit on the top of the stairs that lead off of the stage and into the audience. They kinda playfully walk around the railings and stuff, and at the point in the Broadway version where they start aggressively making out, instead they just sit next to each other and talk and it’s very cute :) 

Jeremy’s freaking the fuck out in the middle and it’s so obviously sensory overload auauuauuauaugh. He was like contorting to cover his head in his arms. Guy…

Halloween

Brooke’s costume is a sexy dalmatian! She has an eyespot and a black and white skirt + other spotty white clothes. Jeremy’s cyborg costume only extends to the shirt & a visor. I think it matched with the squip’s visor?

THE PROJECTOR…. On the background was the funniest background it could possibly be it was like a graphic of a cartoon skeleton holding a wooden sign that said “Jake’s Halloween Party”. IDK if that’s a poster he got printed or if it’s an extremely camp way of abstractly giving us the setting or what but I WAS LOSING IT SLKDJFKDSJFSD 

I WISH I had a picture of it, but in lieu of that I recreated it for you and I swear it was like 95% exactly like this. just projected on the wall behind the stage.

Do you wanna hang?

Right before this scene, there’s a huge group choreo where people dance with partners, and in the last move one partner spins the other one down, who lands on the floor looking up at them. Jeremy ends up on the floor and Chloe walks up and stands over him while inviting him to come with her. 

TW - This scene is always sexual assault, but the tone felt especially dark this time – maybe it was just seeing it live, though. 

Jeremy’s standing frozen still as the song starts and kind of visibly recoiling as Chloe walks around him. She walks behind him and shoves her hands into his coat pockets, which makes him flinch. Extra upsetting because like I said before I think his coat pockets are kind of a place of safety for him :(((

Pretty sure the SQUIP's Japanese was different from the Broadway. Wasn't sure quite what he said, but it I think it *didnt* include these from the Broadway one: お腹が空いた (I'm hungry) and お疲れ様 ('pleasure doing business with you,' i think?)

Michael in the Bathroom

Scene: Jeremy seems very shaken after DYWH and sits on the bathtub sadly; when Michael reveals himself Jeremy flips out.

Michael talks about “his clever disguise” and makes monster growls (meant as creeper hisses?) - I think with the tone that he’s trying to get Jeremy to respond to the joke, or point out the reference or something. When that fails, he starts getting serious. 

“Get out of my way, loser” is delivered very confidently. 

After Michael says he’s on his period, Jenna opens the door a crack to hand him a tampon dsjfkldsjflkdsjf. He throws it in the bathtub later at “I’m a creeper in a bathroom….”

Also of course, he’s in a creeper mask lol

Song: WONDERFULLY done. Honestly don’t have much to say it was just great. I get desensitized to that song after hearing it so much, but seeing it live definitely brought a spark to it.

“And I look in the mirror and the present is clearer…” section is like the *key* part of this song to me and Connor Introna did it really well. His voice started breaking at mirror, and of course he did the little sob and everything it was just chefs kiss

Guy that I’d Kinda be Into Reprise

When Jeremy asks why Rich didn’t give him a warning and Rich starts saying “warning” over and over, he says it at a steady rhythm until he gets off stage. Then Jeremy tries to rouse a drunken partier to say “So that was weird…” and Rich’s “Warning” randomly interrupts Jeremy like 3 times to comedic effect before he can get the words out

"Popular people are messed up" - less in response to Rich & more in response to the guy Rich is talking to passing out drunk (iirc)

This is just a 2R things but it hit me so just pointing out she just says “I’m not Juliet” in this one (rather than we’re not romeo and juliet) and auuauguughghg poor Christine :(

Weird noises: it’s kinda like a dinosaur impression in this one? They both go like RAAHH and make claw hands in the air. Then Jeremy stands up and pretends to be driving a car (I think???? lol) and Christine copies him

Christine starts standing up while Jeremy’s still asking her out. As soon as he finishes the question she immediately rejects him. That is to say, she saw where this was going and already knew her answer.

After the scene, Rich walks back across the room, flicking a lighter on and off in a daze. 

ALSO: Ensemble were very entertaining in the whole party! During this scene there were 3 of them playing spin the bottle downstage left and it had like a whole arc to it sdnjkfdfdsf Also guys passed out on the floor and on the couch 

Smartphone Hour

Starts w/ Jenna sitting on the edge of the stage, dangling her legs over the pit. 

Brooke is sadly eating Rich’s loaf of bread. (After she forgives Chloe she passes it to some other actor offstage which I probably wasn’t supposed to see but it was funny lol. communal machete bread)

THE PROJECTOR….. Everyone was holding phones and in the background was footage from their front-facing cameras (prerecorded, but it synced pretty well with the live actors). Then you could see the GUI of them typing some of the lyrics (“rich fled to bombay!!”) into imessage and twitter

AND THEN you see footage of the house burning down on an insta reel…. An unremarkable suburban house where you can see flames consuming the roof. This same footage plays on a few people’s reels, then there’s also footage of firemen coming and putting the fire out and its SO REALISTIC i was losing it 

Around “Changed my profile pic to you” it shows a bunch of (presumably) instagram photos of Rich like in his house and at school or wherever and i wont lie it made me feel for him a lot more. They were like actual full staged photos :( like thats a real guy in there… 

Pitiful children

Scene: When Jenna asks if the SQUIP is a drug, she does the same extended thing of checking to see that nobody’s watching that Jeremy did in The Squip Song

The Pants Song

Scene: see my notes on Mr. Heere aaaaaauguh

Michael’s sitting on his front steps while smoking weed from a tiny green bong. You can tell it’s his front steps because there’s a mailbox next to him labeled MELL BOX in big letters dslkfjdskfjs

Michael’s wearing pants - I think that’s just textually accurate but reporting it anyway

When Mr. Heere comes over (“do you love him?”), he puts one leg on the top step and Michael is eye-level with his crotch. Michael has trouble tearing his eyes away. This happens a few times. In my opinion, it made him come off as a lot more high than he usually does lol

If I remember correctly, they get very intense and like shoulder-grabby at one point. Could’ve been a different scene though I dont remember OTL OTL

The Play

Michael comes out of the audience!!! It was cool it was meta lol

PINKBERRY CANON SDLKFJDKLFJKFJLSF. Brooke and Chloe have the Two Rivers dialogue (He didn’t sleep with you? He didn’t sleep with me!) then after Sisters forever! they do these actions to the rhythm of three staccato beats: “Jinx!” *high five(?)* *KISS ON THE LIPS* and instantly pull away. They're extremely normal about it and are just standing there afterwards without moving or acknowledging it. 

Despite being in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, Jeremy is dumbstruck and stares at them for a few beats before moving on to the next line. It was amazing. No notes. 

Jeremy is horrified when Christine starts singing to him. She walks robotically over to him and speaks kind of like she’s reading off a script (hehehe). Jeremy is backing up against a wall and freaking out almost like he’s trying to get away from her. No implication at all that he’s tempted. 

When everyone starts screaming in pain, Michael is screaming in triumph. (Or at least he looked very triumphant, I don’t remember if he screamed lol)

Voices in My Head

Rich is in a wheelchair. Also he doesn't have a lisp.

Rich is wearing Michael’s glasses. When he starts asking about Michael, Michael shows up and takes his glasses back. I think Rich steals them back at some point too? 

Michael acts a lil flirty with Rich - approximately "I'm sure you'll find something very special," then in a tiny high voice: “but not with meeeee…!” and he pushes Rich’s wheelchair so he rolls offstage jdsfkldsfkfd

At “Tell her that she excites you sexually” Rich does a little wheelie to (presumably) represent a pelvic thrust (all of these Rich moments were excellent I loved this Rich sm)

Christine’s squip was Taylor Swift this time!

At “I know the last thing I deserve is another shot, but…” He trails off and there’s a pause before “Just say what’s on your mind, Jeremy.” I know they get together obviously, but it felt like it could go either way! Maybe because it was live.

(And then they cccccome on lets go and do bows, in character i think, and it was amazing the end)

I was gonna write a TLDR here but honestly all of it was amazing and if you want the highlights it’s pretty much just the stuff I bolded!

Also end note the actors were all soooo nice and they let me ramble to them about jeremy for several minutes Q____Q it was amazing im so happy about this still I wish I got their signatures sjdlfkjdsfkdsf

I hope everyone gets to watch the show at some point but otherwise I hope this can be useful to someone!!

[well-what-did-you-expect]

hey!! if you’re taking requests, i’d like to request the tmnt 2012 turtles falling for a fem! reader who’s basically like your stereotypical raph. she loves fighting, loves working out, loud asf, short-tempered, blunt, sarcastic, cursed with resting bitch face, all that jazz. but, once you get to know her, she’s actually really funny and sweet. NEVER afraid to speak her mind, so she may come across as rude or sassy at times, but she never really means to be. DEFINITELY has mild adhd and is on the autism spectrum. 🫶

TMNT2012 : Modern Day Cain

included : leonardo “leo” hamato, raphael “raph” hamato, donatello “donnie” hamato, michelangelo “mikey” hamato

summary : hcs: the boys falling for a reader who is similar to raph (attitude, rough and tough act, head-strong, short-tempered, etc.)

warnings : none? pretty sure

disclaimers : fem!reader, she/her & you/your pronouns

track [1 of 1] : modern day cain , i don’t know how but they found me

word count : 618

Leonardo "Leo" Hamato

When Leo first met you and saw that you had attitude, his first thought was 'Oh, great, another Raph.'

It took them a while to get past your rough and tough exterior, but once they got to know you better, they started falling, and they fell HARD.

Full on tripping over her words, getting flustered easily, you're the only thing on her mind when she realizes that she likes you.

Definitely talks to Master Splinter about you.

Would never bring his crush on you up to his brothers, especially Raph.

"So when I have an attitude, you hate it, but when she has an attitude, you think it's adorable?!" would be Raph's reaction upon finding out.

Because you are very head-strong, sometimes you and Leo end up butting heads due to your opinions differing.

You would definitely be workout buddies with Raph.

Also when fixating on something, Mikey loves having infodump sessions with you, especially if you both are fixated on something similar/the same thing.

Leo loves when you get along with their brothers.

Raphael "Raph" Hamato

In the beginning, you and Raph are constantly butting heads. You both are very short-tempered and head-strong so when your opinions differ, it's a bull match between you two.

After some time, it's not as bad as it was, you learn to compromise.

They teach you some stuff as a way of flirting without being obvious.

It takes a while for him to get a crush on you, he's supposed to be the tough guy, he doesn't have time for feelings.

But everytime you remind them that being strong involves being in tune with your feelings, they start to allow themself to fall for you.

He doesn't understand his feelings for you, he's confused. Like 'Why does my stomach feel weird whenever we're training together? Why can't I think straight when I talk to her?'

They don't want to get teased by their brothers so they keep their crush a secret, but everyone knows, except for you.

Donatello "Donnie" Hamato

Similar to Leo, he's not excited that you are basically another Raph. He's not a fan of the short-tempered, sarcastic, loudness that is you.

Being more logical and rational, he clashes with your 'punch first, ask questions later' attitude. But hey, they do say opposites attract.

Once he realizes that he's starting to like you, he tries to avoid you as much as possible. He's had his human-mutant "relationship" experience and it didn't go well. *cough* April *cough*

When you let down your tough exterior is when he falls hard, he basically smacked the floor with how hard he fell.

He's in love with your sense of humor. If you were to crack a joke that had anything to do with science or robotics, he would fall harder than ever.

Michelangelo "Mikey" Hamato

Being the baby brother, Mikey knows how his hot-headed brother is. He knows that Raph can be caring, despite the rough exterior.

Mikey figures you're the same way. Tough on the outside, soft on the inside.

They fall hard and fast, completely head over heels for you. They're like a lovesick puppy, following at your feet, treating you like a princess.

His crush on you is obvious to everyone, except you. At first, you think it's annoying how he's always by your side, but over time, he starts to grow on you.

If you were to come into the kitchen when they were cooking and matched his goofy energy, they would break. They love it so much.

Don't even get me started on when you both are hyper together. You two being energetic and chaotic, he loves it! Although the others aren't too happy with all the commotion if they're busy (which they most likely are).

[auschizm]

Just wanted to share a reflection on a nice little area of autism+schizo-overlap

I’m autistic and my best friend is auschitzic and I’ve found that I understand so called “word salad” better than others. (Not just in my friend but also in people I met in the soup kitchen and others who have it)

My pet theory is that perhaps with autism, there are less perceived notions about what someone should say.

I feel others get distracted by the projection that the person “isn’t making sense” rather than just listen.

I think it’s a nice moment of solidarity. We have so much more in common than apart. Especially in the struggles with communication. In many ways we have very similar needs too

Sensory needs, needs for predictability, need for routines, need for very clear instructions, cognitive support.

I see it as auschizm mirrors my experience a LOT and at the same time that the overlap adds an extra layer of marginalization which makes it so that when fighting for freedom, against the coercion and other flaws in healthcare, I see it as us who are autistic or otherwise disabled needing to listen to auschizic and schizospectrum people first.

Oftentimes auschizic people experience everything I do (miscommunication with doctors, coercion while outpatient, financial punishments for cognitive deficits, dehumanization, etc) but a hundred fold.

Similar; same type of things. But at the same time completely different; we who are autistic and only experience minor symptoms of other things from time to time, we have to understand that there are levels of incarceration and violence that we dont have to deal with due to not being schizospec

The way I see it this gives us a moral obligation. To fight in our day to day lives for the dignity of our schizospectrum siblings.

We have to speak up when people stereotype and fearmonger. We have to be vocal in our critiques against psychiatry. We have to fight to make the world accessible for all of us.

Rather than mask because we understood that what was said was meant as a joke, if it was cruel or “unreality” we should still demand it be explained.

Be outspoken about all of the cultural discrimination and misconceptions with our friends who might be even further removed from psychiatry than we are.

It’s like a set of circles where my auschizic friend can tell me about the experiences they heard from others even more marginalized who were in the ward. They are in the middle of the circle. Then is my friend who is mostly outpatient. Who can talk to me. Next circle is people who are neurodivergent but “functioning”; maybe they have jobs and stuff. So I can talk to them. Then those people can talk to people at their jobs etc who are even further removed

We can each do our work in fighting to create spaces. When we are in social spaces, that in and out of itself, is a privilege. We can fight to try to fit others in these social spaces

Sorry about the very long and rambly ask. There are many thoughts on this subject that I have yet to articulate

I guess what I wanted to say was thank you for making this blog. Thank you for creating this space.

It is so important that this gets talked about

Im extremely grateful to get the opportunity to read about even more auschizic experiences and learn more about the perspective

Thank you so much

Solidarity

🤝🤝🤝

This ask is making my morning. I really appreciate your compassion and solidarity! Although I gotta note that I don't believe in simple hierarchies of oppression and discrimination. Like I wouldn't say that a low support needs auschiztic person who is stable and functional enough to live alone and work is inherently more oppressed than a nonverbal high support needs autistic person who needs extensive support and supervision simply because the person in the first scenario has two diagnoses instead of one.

[memento-morri-writes]

Do you have any advice or specific tips to writing a low/no empathy character? Or a resource to recommend?

Hi nonny! Thanks for asking! I'm going to try my best to answer your question, but keep in mind, this is all based on my own personal experience, and that varies vastly from person to person. (if anyone else experiences low/no empathy, please feel free to add on to this post!)

So, some things to keep in mind:

Why does your character experience low/no empathy? For me, it's a symptom of my autism, but there are multiple reasons a character could have low/no empathy. The most common is probably going to be some form of disability (autism), or disorder (psychopathy), etc. (Be careful while doing research though, especially on disorders like psychopathy! You're going to run into a lot of ableist bullshit. Make sure to look for sources written by people living with these disorders/disabilities.) (If anyone has any resources on other disabilities or disorders that cause low empathy that they personally recommend, please feel free to add links!!!) Whatever the reason, it's not going to only affect their empathy. It's going to affect every part of their life. So make sure to do your research, and write respectfully. If you know someone or follow someone who has a certain condition, ask if they'd feel comfortable answering questions for you. If they aren't, that's fine. If they are, they're going to be a great resource. (I'd also recommend getting a sensitivity reader, particularly when writing about mental disorders that are already frequently stigmatized. You want to make sure you're not promoting harmful stereotypes.) I should note, however, that neurotypical people can also have low/no empathy!!! It just happens to also be a common symptom of various mental disorders.

Consider what kind of empathy does your character lack. There are two kinds of empathy! Emotional (or affective) empathy, and cognitive empathy. Affective empathy is made up of three parts: Feeling the same emotion as someone else, feeling discomfort or stress in response to someone else's suffering, and feeling compassion for or understanding another's emotions. Cognitive empathy is the ability to recognize and understand the emotions of someone else. This includes being to "stand in someone else's shoes", or take another person's perspective, and generally understand what they're feeling. This one has been called more of a "skill", in that it's something people can "learn", where as affective empathy can't be taught or learned. When people talk about having low/no empathy, they are usually referring to lacking affective empathy, but a character might struggle with both!

Not everyone experiences empathy the same. Some people lack empathy in some circumstances, but have it in others. For example, I lack empathy when it comes to human beings, but I am much more empathetic when it comes to animals. A character might only be able to empathize with very specific scenarios or people. (For example, if someone else is going through a very similar scenario to one they have experienced in the past, it may be easier for them to feel empathy. But it might not!) Some people can empathize with certain emotions better than others. (I empathize better with anger, but can't empathize at all with grief.)

Understand that a lack of empathy does not equal a lack of caring. Just because a person doesn't feel the emotions someone else is feeling doesn't mean they don't care. A person with low or no empathy can still be kind and compassionate to others. They might go about trying to cheer people up in a slightly different way (I personally tend to try and go for distractions), but they still care about their friends and loved ones. Even seemingly "uncaring" things said by those who lack empathy do not come from a place of malice. (I can't tell you how many times I've said something well-meaning and had people assume I was being cruel. I wasn't, and I genuinely had good intentions.)

Keep in mind how your character reacts to other's emotions. People with empathy tend to feel similarly to those they empathize with, which generally creates a feeling of connection. (This is part of what leads to that sense of "coming together after tragedy".) A person with low/no empathy might instead feel alienated or uncomfortable when faced with large outpourings of emotions. They might be uncertain how to act or what to do, and they may try and avoid situations with strong negative emotions because of it. (In my case, people crying makes me very uncomfortable, because I don't know how to respond. So I try and keep my distance.)

Think about how your character processes their own emotions. Just because a character doesn't feel empathy for others doesn't mean that they are incapable of feeling those emotions on their own. A character who has no empathy for a grieving friend can still grieve! But chances are they will process that emotion differently than a person with "normal" empathy. They might try to push their emotions away and bottle them up. Or one emotion might transition into one they have an easier time processing. (For me, I don't experience sadness normally. It either transitions to anger, or it is replaced by different thoughts.)

Think about how their lack of empathy influences their life. A person who lacks empathy is not going to experience life the same way as a person with "normal" empathy. They might have a hard time making friends, or they might excel at a job that requires a logical mind. They might give great advice, or their friends might know to never ask them about relationships. They might be great at organizing people, even in times of stress, because their brain compartmentalizes and thinks pragmatically. They might totally shut down when faced with an emotional situation because they don't know how to process it.

Having no empathy can be very alienating. People expect empathy constantly. It's a big part of why people love emotional media, and it's the expected response when someone you know experiences suffering. Not having empathy can mean that you feel disconnected from your loved ones or community as a whole. It might mean biting your tongue and not saying what you think because people would read it as uncaring or cruel.

Remember: Having low or no empathy is not a bad thing. People with low/no empathy are often villainized in media, and the trait is often given to antagonists. But that's a harmful stereotype and harmful belief in general. That's not saying that your character with low empathy has to be "good", but don't use their low empathy as proof that they're a "bad person". Try thinking about situations in which having low/no empathy might be useful! I personally am reminded of the post I saw years ago where someone was saying that if not for their lack of empathy, they probably couldn't do their job. (iirc, they worked handling the bodies of organ donors, some of whom were quite young.)

Okay, that's all I can think of for now, but like I said before, anyone else who experiences low or no empathy is encouraged to reblog this post and add on to it! And if I made any mistakes here, please let me know so I can fix them!!! I tried to base this mostly off of my own experience, so take it all with a grain of salt.

[lullaebies]

What do you think about Helaena's portrayal in the show? Idw to ask about Aegon's portrayal because he was the one that get fucked up the most even if they wanted him to be the main antagonist of the show there were many "more complex and interesting" ways to portray him. But what about helaena? There is always something wrong in Helaena's character in the show for me, in many ways she does seems to be a caricature of the trope of the weird prophetic princess.

This is going to be an essay. Buckle up.

As endearing and easy to feel for her circumstances she is (and the show is how I got to know her, I liked her to begin with regardless and I read Fire and Blood only after watching), I feel like the show failed her tremendously, not only by falling into the trope you mentioned, but perpetuating stereotypes regarding neurodivergent people as well as making Helaena a victim before bothering to make her a person. Let me get into it one by one.

The trope of the neurodivergent girl with powers, to begin with, is obviously a somewhat uncomfortable trope that hints neurodivergency doesn't have a place to be unless it is accompanied by powers of some sort. The idea of neurodivergence being inherently magical is harmful in a detracting kind of way. That already kind of leaves a bad taste in the mouth as both the neurodivergence and dreamer plotlines were added without textual evidence in F&B, so the mix is probably deliberate to create 'she's more than what meets the eye' type of character. Doesn't work as well in today's sphere of things.

Now, I wouldn't care nearly as much about the trope if they bothered to make her more than just her prophecies and her neurodivergence. They could've had their cake and could've eaten it if they gave her actual lines that speak of how she feels about what's around her and in what situation she's in. Every single line she has in the show is a prophecy, save for exactly two: her speaking about her millipede to Alicent (because her hyper fixation is the only she cares about, apparently) and her roasting Aegon at dinner (which was a serve, but was once more only there to serve she cannot converse like a normal person and to show she is a victim). We have absolutely nothing about how she feels as a person, as a sister, as a mother! They barely gave her a chance to react to Driftmark, we don't know if she was scared about her wedding and what is happening to her, we don't even get her saying what she thinks about her visions! We have zero framing of anything. We see nothing of what the book describes her as: Why was she described as a happy girl? Why people agreed she would be a lovely mother? Why did the smallfolk like her, why was her death their last straw? Who is she, aside from bugs and weird mumblings? Autistic people have thoughts and feelings and many of them can express them in an even better way than people without autism (I worked for 4 years with autistic adults, and I'm pretty sure I'm on the spectrum myself - anecdotal evidence it is, but there was no reason to not let her have actual character moments.) Many people in this fandom are convinced she is not able to hold a single conversation with anyone - it's atrocious and offensive.

And then we have the victim discussion, which only packs it in further. She is shown to be a perpetual victim in the show, pretty clearly to vilify Aegon (who frankly is also a victim of the marriage, but we don't get to talk about that). She has been stripped of all her agency; in the books, she talks smack about Aegon in a humorous way, she sits on his war council and advocates for peace, she is a good mother who is hands-on with her children and consistently portrayed with them. She has a life, and meaning outside of being a victim, she's active. When you think of a princess who claimed the largest dragon living in the dragon pit, don't you at least think she is courageous? that she has a sense of life in her, to drive her to do such a thing? And she could've done all of the things she does in the book, with the dreamer plot and the neurodivergent characterization all the same, and that is what drives me insane. These were additions, but they didn't have to overwrite Helaena as a whole.

We don't get to see her truly live, and care about the things she loves. When B&C happens, we are going to see an autistic woman brutalized and her children hurt and murdered many people would cheer for it, without the necessary preparation of showing how much she cared about the children, without showing any conflict of hers to take the mantle as Queen, without her ever showing or thinking about these complex situations she's been put in. She's not allowed to have an opinion politically, at least not so far - she's not allowed to have as much voice as her brothers do and she's not allowed to be taken seriously as Queen Consort as Rhaenyra is taken seriously as Queen, which is such, SUCH a shame, because if we had a smidge of comparisons between the two sisters we could have had them be proper foils, which is interesting, and not to the detriment of either of them!

To conclude; they sprinkled on Helaena tropey traits, made her lines be more or less summed up as cool foreshadowing, and erased the traits that would've made the crowd find her endearing and relatable as a person. (and I have theories about it, but I won't get into it here). They failed Helaena not because of the additions themselves, but because they refuse to take her place as a woman in this story seriously, as well as refused to flesh her out beyond the surface-level tropes. She could've been so, so much more, and I can talk about it for hours, but choices have been made. Her arc deserved to be built up better, as did her character, and it's very frustrating.

[calciumdeficientt]

req from @wolfxplush for either vance or lovette hcs and go that i say….. why not both?!?!

VANCE MEDICI

vance doesn’t really sweat being openly bi. not even in front of his peers. it’s part of who he is and in all honesty, a lot of queerness can be seen in (HIGHLY) stereotypical italian american dress wear. a silk shirt??? in public???? during the day?????yeah. no sweat for vance.

vance talks with his hands…. a lot. this proves to be difficult in shop class because it means he cannot also *work* with his hands when he’s gesticulating. more then once he has done a little hand motion with a tool and broken wherever project he’s currently fixing up.

doesn’t really mind his height. the ladies dig him because he’s pint sized and the fellas feel more masculine because he’s a short dude

HATES dogs. terrified of dogs. he’s very anti dog…. doesn’t mind cats though he’s just not big on pooches.

dances like no one’s watching which is good because no one should have to watch him dance. he can give you a twist, he can give you the mashed potatoes. anything more complex than that he looks like a newborn giraffe who is trying to avoid a sniper.

LOVETTE JACKSON

i wanna take just a small moment to FANGIRL over lovette. i love her so so SO much…. anyway

i feel like she’s got a good head on her shoulders.. at least compared to the other prefects. although that’s not exactly hard when they’re consistently taking advantage of their power

based upon your own hcs, i think what makes her unique as a prefect is her strong sense of justice, that comes from her autism even if her moral compass is a little flexible, she still maintains her duty to protect vulnerable students, especially the little kids.

she’s pretty well liked amongst her peer group because she’s not a massive stickler like the other prefects. the non cliques don’t mind her because she leaves them well enough alone. the greasers are pretty tight with her because of the services she provides. the nerds… don’t want to get bullied so they see her as a big ally. the jocks…. eh, it’s a pretty even split. the usual aggressors (COUGH damon, juri COUGH) don’t like her so much because she gets them in trouble. the smaller, less outwardly aggressive jocks like dan are pretty neutral toward her.

the nerds actually have an NPC inspired by lovette in their G&G campaign, “Mistress Lancelot” she’s basically like an iron golem, protecting their party from harm on their adventure. it’s really sweet…. the minifigure is less sweet. melvin didn’t have a base for a giant so she’s technically an orc.

i feel like the preps miss lovette a lot. especially parker and tad, i feel like those two make bonds super quickly and then get absolutely CURB-STOMPED when things get murky and friendships tail off. tad already wants to overthrow derby… maybe he could get lovette to come back when he does

[nururu]

I hate aroace Luffy truthers simply bc they impose it on everyone and posts that are clearly made by ppl who don't hc Luffy as aroace and also.... like a lot of the bad stereotypes around asexuality are pushed onto him and..... I love ace Luffy I headcanon him as ace. Ace ppl can still be gay.... ace ppl can still have sex.... ace people aren't immune to the nice feelings of being close to someone. Also the fact that more than any of this, Luffy being autistic is higher up on the canon scale, and having ppl interpret his autism as sexless romanticless behavior (in the way they do it) is..... weird. Sex doesn't have to be self fulfilling. Love doesn't have to be red roses and proposals. Many people come at these two things from many different angles. Not just the ones you see from neurotypical hetero cis couples on television.

[davekat-sucks]

So I was listening to Doctor on loop yesterday, as my autism oft commands me to do, and I think I had something of an epiphany in regards to what I like and don't about this stupid-ass webcomic which consumes my brain every once in a while.

I think the reason I like the first 5 Acts and am decidedly mixed on the last 2 (bar the very beginning of Act 6 where the Alpha Kids get introduced and their relationships are set up) is that, IMO, as it went on things stopped being about Sburb and the game itself??? If that makes any sense.

And even then, I kinda prefer Acts 1-4 to Act 5, as Act 5 began the cast bloat that became real bad midway into Act 6 with the A1 Trolls. Also Murderstuck, but that's a whole other writing hang-up I have involving character deaths, which HS both does and doesn't fall victim too.

Also, I think I know why I like most of the Pesterquest Sprites bar Terezi, Jane, and Roxy's. And just to preface, no, it's not that the former two are on the heavier side. Please, I am too IRL, but that's not the reason.

Okay fine, it's *kind of* the reason in Jane's case, but I digress.

In Jane's case, and this is also kinda the case for Roxy, I kinda feel as if she doesn't... mesh as well with the other Kids, if that makes sense. Like the actual way she's drawn and the shading and all. Also making her chubby when one of her main interests is baking smacks vaguely of stereotyping, and I'm not particularly a fan of it.

For Roxy, my main issue is that I feel the amount of detail, again, doesn't make her mesh with the others. Like, I feel she looks... oh god, I am going to get hate for this, aren't I?... Too definitively black??? Is that even a thing? Like the other kids are ambiguous, keeping with Hussie's BS about that being the case and not all the kids being white like is all but explicit in the comic itself. And Roxy isn't.

Terezi being heavyset I don't like because of her overly acrobatic fighting style. Yeah that's about it. I wouldn't mind it otherwise, but here we are.

I do like Vriska's sprites though. I think the way they're styled fit her personality and how she is. Her writing on the other hand...

(In particular the "You see a girl who did nothing wrong" bit. which. I'm sorry, but No. You can't say that while Sollux, Terezi, Tavros, and Aradia (at the least!) still have their canon backstories)

Oh right this blogs gimmick.... Uh, fuckin...

Aromantic-Asexual Karkat is better than DaveKat.

There. Plus as an Aspec guy myself, I kinda think it would be funny if the guy all about relationships didn't feel that kind of attraction. Irony, I guess.

Aromantic-Asexual Karkat is better than DaveKat.

[totally-italy]

Honestly, I'm hyped to find another Just Add Magic fan on here, it's one of my face obscure shows, and if you don't really mind, I'd like to rant about the parallels between the original protectors and the main three.

At first glance, the parallels seem obvious. Kelly parallels her grandmother, Hannah Miss Silvers and , although it doesn't match up with the other two, Mama P with Darbie.

However, looking at the shows events more deeply showcases a more subversive take.

First off, I think that Miss Silvers parallels Darbie.

Despite how different the two seem, they are both very passionate about an art, Darbie with theatre and Miss Silvers with piano. They both share the magic with a non protector friend, although in Miss Silvers case, it backfired. They both have a high amount of empathy, and both of them scream neurodivergent to me Darbie with ADHD and Miss Silvers with autism. They also seem more likely to use the magic for 'frivolous' things, it's a novelty to them.

Next up, Hannah and Becky, Kelly's grandmother. They both care strongly about their friendships, and are cautious with the magic as opposed to the others, who use it as a means to an end, or as a fun way to make life simpler. They both are used by Chuck to bring back his sister Rose, even though he was successful with Becky and not Hannah. They both care deeply about thier friends and family, to the point where they sacrifice their own well being.

And my personal favourite: Mama P and Kelly.

At first, Kelly seems like the typical leader character stereotype, but it's later shown that she is the most morally grey of the group. She will do anything, literally anything, to achieve her goals. She's marginally obsessed with magic, and although she cares about only a few people, she would kill for them. Sound familiar? Mama P matches that description, although her and Kelly have different goals, they show ambition throughout the show. Also, when chuck arrived first, during the OCs protectership, he targeted Mama Ps father. When he returned, he targets Kelly's father.

They have one track minds, and can't quite seem to grasp the consequences of their actions entirely.

Okay lol sorry about how long this was, I've been rotating it in my head for a while

Hank you for reading if you did!

Oh my gods, I actually had to start writing this comment before reading the entire ask, but I absolutely agree with your point about neurodivergence, particularly with Darbie, because she gives me such ADHD vibes and, as I was re-watching it this time, I honestly really felt that she mirrors some of my own experiences as a self-diagnosed ADHDer. Also, though I don't know if I actually thought about it as deeply, I really do think that Miss Silvers is autistic and I thank you for bringing it to my attention!

Also, I really agree with what you were saying about Kelly and Mama P because, though I think Kelly she be cut some slack due to her youth and her being literally poisoned by the magic, she is very similar to Mama P and I don't think it is a coincidence that Mama P particularly wanted to teach Kelly. Also, considering how close Kelly is with her grandmother, I think it also makes sense that Mama P would try to manipulate her (and actually succeeded) with regards to the Pluot Festival.

I feel like the connection between Hannah and Becky is a little bit more obscure, but it is definitely accurate, particularly if you consider the fact that, in Season 1, Hannah covered for Kelly but then snitched on her, and Becky did the same thing in the last season, after finding Kelly's earrings. Also, though I don't agree with Becky trying to get rid of the book and I don't feel like Hannah would have done the same, she clearly does demonstrates the same unwillingness for her own friendships to deteriorate and tries to serve as the mediator a lot.

On the other hand, if you remember the first episode in which they created the bitter truth truffles, wherein Darbie and Hannah admitted that they probably wouldn't be friends if it weren't for Kelly, I think that in itself does create a link between Kelly and her own grandmother, since both originally serve as links between their friends.

I honestly really agree with pretty much everything that you said, though I don't think I had actually ever thought about it that deeply, so thank you for allowing me to analyse it further and for sharing your own perspective on it!

For the record, you absolutely do not have to apologise and I have actually made way longer posts than that before (namely my 1347 word rant about Greek Mythology).

If I might ask, have you seen Mystery City and, if so, what do you think about it? Also, have you ever seen Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra?

[coolspacequips]

I think it's so reductive to say Shuro only liked falin while disliking laios bc he wanted to "fuck her", kind of a bad faith read and needlessly crass like...

It's a good point that ppl react to autistic traits differently depending on how attractive they perceive a person, but I think what happened w shuro and laios is a larger conversation about how boy autism manifests and is treated vs girl autism, a conversation I've seen gaining traction re: the fact that ppl filter their Perception of autism thru a male white filter, and that girls have a drastically lower rate of being clocked early if at all, and that ppl struggle to even conceive of say a brown girl w autism (this of course being in the simplest language without getting into a more complex look at genders and other social dynamics and how that intersects w neurodivergence)

Also along those lines, I think it's a larger conversation on how men socialize vs women, stereotypically. Of course men feel deeper feelings than they are often given credit for, for patriarchal bullshit reasons. It's common for ppl to express that "men don't need/want to talk about their feelings", which they do and benefit from of course, but that doesn't remove the fact that they often are socialized not to, and don't always get the support they need to talk about them well. It's a common thing and used to be a common media trope that bad tension might simmer between two guys, then they get into a physical fight and the air is cleared and they are friends again, hell it happens it shonen all the time, and in text that's a version of what happened with Shuro and laios. They didn't know how to discuss it, things came to an emotional head in a charged moment, they threw hands for a bit, then that release cleared Shuro's head enough to reconsider his perceptions and the two have a much more level conversation.

This of course all without touching on how I and a lot of others read Shuro to be autistic as well, and how lots of fans are determined to read him in as bad as faith as possible and can once again only clock white boy autism, where laios gets a pass for any boundary pushing that he does, but Shuro is evil for not being able to express or understand some of his feelings until they come out at crit mass, or struggling social conventions

This also discredits his feelings for falin so much where I get everyone wants to hate him for being het or whatever, but I get the impression that he saw the things that were strange about falin and liked her because of those things, that she was someone who was kind to him without the same over the top energy that overstimulates him when it comes to laios, and having shown no romantic interest in anyone in the past, fell in love. He isn't creeping on her and trying to see her body and grope her for comedy beats or anything, we see him looking at her with eyes full of love as she plays w a bug she found on the ground, and we know she saved him from a nightmare in the past, which we saw involves waking someone from a dream about their greatest trauma and helping them cope with it. This stance that he's just trying to fuck her undermines these things, misinterprets what is overall a pretty chaste romance, and cheapens the fact that falin is THAT LOVABLE. He loved her because she's lovable, and despite having a horrible childhood where she was assigned no worth, the reality is that a group of people love her so deeply as to risk everything, which is something you often kind of wish for when you were an ostracized nd person like she was

IDK this whole post is a rambling unedited mess I just saw some post about this that pissed me off LMAO IDK why this fandom is so determined to deny shuro any personhood, I try to just brush this discourse off but it's hard when the topics of discourse can remind u how rampant fandom racism is constantly 😔