Okay. Let's talk about Kay in The Forgotten Turnabout.
I've mentioned in a post before how I think Kay doesn't have a purpose in AAI2 (as in, AAI was all about the Yatagarasu which is her story, but AAI2 generally has nothing to do with her, and you can see this change just by looking at how she's positioned in the promotional material for the two games:
[left AAI; right AAI2.] In the left poster, while she's at Edgeworth's back, it's clear that they're both the main focus. In the right, though, she's on par with Gumshoe).
And I think the result of her slight lack of direction in the game culminates in what happens to her and her character in Forgotten.
From the beginning of AAI2, you can kind of tell that Kay was written to a bit different from how she was in AAI. She's still fairly consistent with how she was there, but the game kind of bounces between her original characterisation and her newer one, where she's slightly denser (see her calling the laser pointer a mole in Target, when she should definitely have known what it was; and them explaining to her what a prison is in Imprisoned like she wouldn't know??) and less concerned with maintaining formality around Edgeworth, although they haven't interacted since the end of AAI (see her partner opening line changing from "Yes?" to "Yeah, what's up?"). She also seems more eager for his approval (there are a few times when she questions/asserts her effectiveness as an assistant when I don't remember her ever doing that in AAI), and, overall just a little more like Maya.
In Imprisoned, when she freaks out, Kay hits Ray, which is notable because we've only seen her resort to violence before on purpose and as a child (whereas Mia/Maya have both hit people out of emotion). I'm not going to go through the whole game, but I bring it up because there's an argument to be made that they're trying to replicate the Phoenix-Maya dynamic and push the Dadworth interpretation in AAI2 -- probably because they realised it'd be popular with the fans -- and this comes to the forefront in Forgotten.
First, just a note about AA's amnesia cases. The thing about these cases is that they're usually done to explore some formerly unseen aspect of a character (as is with Phoenix and the one in DGS), BUT they're always true to the nature of the character (as is most clearly observed with Thalassa). This is... not so in Forgotten.
The parts about Kay that appear to remain in Forgotten are her politeness and sense of honour, both of which get dialed up to 11 and both of which we already know she possess. Everything else about her personality, though, is altered and has always reminded me of Iris (if you made a parody of Iris's soft and seemingly delicate nature). That's mostly because (1) they have similar sprites
and (2) because they're rehashing Edgeworth's mini arc in T&T (which I don't mind because T&T did leave room for that concept to be explored further) where he acts as the defence for, you guessed it, Iris. Looking at it more closely, though, I can definitely see bits of Maya mixed in, too.
The most obvious parallel to Maya, and by extension Phoenix, here is that you act as a... not-prosecutor who defends their assistant from murder charges that even they think they might be guilty of (Reunion, and Turnabout, anyone?). Just like Reunion Maya, Forgotten Kay has poor self-esteem (albeit to a greater, comedic degree), thinks of herself as weak and useless, and becomes reliant on Edgeworth for both her emotional and situational needs (this is not a dig at Maya; she was in jail after having her first big channeling session result in death. Her reaction was natural).
Another less serious but obvious alteration made to make Kay seem more like Maya here is her relationship with food -- which I know sounds ridiculous but!! It's really what tipped me off to her Maya-fication to begin with!!!
You see, in Forgotten, there's a point where Kay talks about hamburgers:
Kay: Umm... OK. I remember a faint scent... It was a wonderful smell coming from the counter of a food stall... I followed the fragrance, only to find a perfectly sculpted burger, resting on two golden buns... The tender and juicy patty made my taste buds sing with joy... Yes, I can remember what I thought at that moment! ...I want seconds!
The thing about this that stands out to me is that you never get a line about food like this from Kay in AAI; and I know this, because not only is the only time Kay ever brings up food in AAI with regards to Swiss rolls (which are notably her favourite treats), you have the option of presenting food to her, which gives you this dialogue:
Kay: It's a box of Samurai Dogs, right? Ah, but see, I'm a Jammin' Ninja fan! So, while I would love to have one... I'm going to be strong and resist the urge!
She would have one but she'll refrain. It blatantly goes against how she acts in Forgotten, and it's so obvious that they only did that to make her more like Maya!!! They even use burgers!!!!
So why am I even getting all uppity about this? There's nothing wrong with being like Maya is there? She's a great character. And, yeah, she is, but the point of Kay is that she's meant to be a foil to Maya... and Edgeworth.
Both Maya and Edgeworth lost their parents at a very young age. So did Kay. But, unlike Maya and Edgeworth, Kay was specifically written to have had the emotional support and strength she needed to move on from her father's death. Her character was created in a way that shows how you can still love and respect a dead family member (and choose to continue their legacy) without being held back by grief and trauma the way Edgeworth largely is. By making amnesiac Kay behave in a way that is so self-deprecating and reliant on other people for her emotional needs, you are implying that this has been who she is deep inside all along and diluting that message of being able to move forwards while still holding onto your love for the people you've lost. It undermines the resilience that has been a part of Kay's core as a character from her conception, and basically flattens everything that makes her... Kay.
Now, this is obviously not great, but what really gets to me about this is that they didn't need to do this for the case to still work. They could have given Kay a milder form of amnesia, where she has a gap in her memory regarding why she was up on that roof and what happened, and the story would have largely functioned the same way. The only reason I can think of for why they do a complete 180 on her personality is because they wanted to use her to develop Edgeworth's character.
Because think about it: we've seen Kay put in a position where she's been accused of murder before, and that didn't affect our or Edgeworth's desire to save her. That drama and the feelings invoked by placing Kay at such risk would still exist; the only thing that would change is Kay's reaction to it. We know from Ablaze that she wouldn't just fold and rely on Edgeworth's help; she would fight back. Her behaviour in Forgotten just doesn't quite align with her usual character (aside from being extremely honourable and polite), which makes me wonder why they did it. And the only answer I can find is that it gives Edgeworth someone to 'save' in the greatest sense of that word (because, remember, she's also extremely emotionally vulnerable and dependent on him here) and furthers his development as a character.
You remember at the beginning when I said Kay didn't have a purpose in this game? I think the developers felt that, too, and they decided that her purpose would be to make Edgeworth a better person and strengthen his arc by giving him someone to protect, without really considering what this would do to her character. This case was never about Kay; it was always about Edgeworth. And, honestly, that should have been obvious from the very moment you realise that Kay is being granted an amnesia plotline, because that whole thing about amnesia in AA being used to reveal parts of a character previously unseen? Yeah, that was never going to work with Kay. Because Kay doesn't wear a mask. She is who she is... until she isn't.
Honestly, I've said pretty much everything I wanted to say about Forgotten and Kay, so thank you if you've read this far. I really appreciate it 💝💖💕 The rest of this is me basically talking about how this change affects my feelings on the game and this interpretation of the Kay-Edgeworth dynamic, so you can stop reading now if that doesn't interest you and still get the basic point of this post.
I suppose I'll start by reiterating that I do like AAI2 despite what it may seem. The characters it introduces are some of my favourites in the franchise, and, in fact, the actual plot of Forgotten with the PIC is my favourite part of the entire game. I thought it was brilliant, but I just needed to get this out because... I don't know, it was bothering me for some reason hskdhdj Like, AA has some amazing female characters, but I know better than to go into it expecting some kind of boundary-pushing piece of new feminist media, believe me; it doesn't surprise me that they used Kay to push Edgeworth's character forwards. It is his game, after all. But I guess it's just a little frustrating to see after they genuinely achieved something great with her characterisation in AAI only to... there's no less inflammatory way to put it, infantilise her? a little? for the sake of developing a male character?
(Especially when I don't think Edgeworth even needed it?? Like, I'm pretty sure he would have been just as adamant about saving her if she had been her normal self so mmm???? It was likely just done to make him seem liked he'd be a good father and up his popularity a bit more, honestly. As if he needed it).
Again, I have no issues with anyone who enjoys the father-daughter (or brother-sister) dynamics pushed by this case; it's literally in the text, I can't say you're wrong for it and like. My opinion shouldn't matter to you anyway! It's fandom, do what makes you happy. But I personally can't get past what is actually being suggested when the game, or fanworks, echo the traits grafted onto Kay in this case within them. Like what it means when she's essentially made to take a few steps back so she's less as at peace with her father's death than she was when we first met her, or less independent and self-assured than she usually is -- especially when this is done only for an older male character (most likely Edgeworth but it could be anyone) to come in and either see themselves in her, thus coming to a conclusion that helps them better themselves in some way, or take on a "fatherly" position that lets them comfort her back to a level of confidence she would usually be at anyway, while simultaneously coming across as being such a good person (which is usually the focus/point of these kinds of things).
And, like, if you don't see a problem with Kay's characterisation in this version of their relationship, that's perfectly fine! If you think I'm reaching and do enjoy the Dadworth dynamic for what it is, then please don't let me rain on your parade. My main thing is that I want better for Kay, and this case just didn't satisfy my need for that.
Anyway, yeah! That's pretty much it. Thank you so much for everyone who read all of this, and I hope you got some amusement out of it if nothing else. Feel free to tell me your thoughts, too!
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Hey, you like Raimundo along with Jack, right? And you're Brazilian. Feel free not to answer this if you don't wanna okay. I just thought you'd be best suited. Like when you commented on the "Rai" nickname.
I'm wondering if you perhaps have any thoughts or headcanons on him, family, hobbies, his inner thoughts, cause I wanna flesh him out for my fic and stuff. I'll give you credit for the ideas of course
even though I'm not that active in the xs fandom currently you've surprisingly come to the right person bc I've rambled a bit about raimundo hcs before to my friends. I had to dig up some discord messages to find all my hcs
I hc raimundo to be white-passing and mixed race, which is like the majority of brazilian ppl tbh. side note: in brazil "race" is defined almost solely by skin color, so like if I left my country it's possible I'd be considered a person of color because of my features, but in brazil I'm considered white. raimundo would be in a similar situation
so in these discord messages past!lucas has said "the only mentions of his background is that he has 8 siblings with a lots of aunts and uncles" and "he mentions that the 'rough' part of rio is his 'element'". now, I, lucas of the present, barely rmr this bc it's been forever ago since I watched xs, but I'm trusting past!lucas on this I think he would never lie to me. based on that I'm a fan of the theory raimundo is an orphan and grew up as part of the lower class. I don't think I ever theorized what the fuck happened to his parents, but I like the idea of him acquiring abandonment issues because of it. since he grew up poor I think he'd also have a lot of survival skills, knowing how to make due with very little, etc.
I actually just thought abt this but it's very uncommon for latino people to only have two names. I myself have four, bc the family names just keep adding on top of each other when u marry instead of being absorbed into the husband's name. so realistically raimundo would probably has at least one other family name
not exactly a hc but something interesting to note about mundo is that he is a good example of something we call a "malandro" in brazil. a malandro is a brazilian concept of a cunning anti-hero who outsmarts, deceives and takes advantage of others, usually for personal gain. describing it like this makes it sound like a bad word, but it has a positive connotation. like culturally being malandro is considered a good thing. we even have a saying that goes like "every day a malandro (in this case a scammer) and a sucker (in this case the one who gets scammed) leave their houses.", implying that if you're not the one taking advantage of others, you're the one being taken advantage of. I don't think this was intentional on the xs writers' part to make raimundo embody these traits so perfectly that r culturally significant to brazil but and I find it interesting.
similar thing to above we also have something called "gambiarra", which is like achieving something through improvised means instead of the "correct" (and usually more expensive) way. also very important to brazilian culture and I think raimundo would be adept in it
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HEIZOU'S BIRTHDAY GIFTS! (We're pretending I answered on time)
@destinywoven asked: It took a little detective work of his own to discover when Heizou’s birthday fell. Perhaps he would have told Cyno if he’d asked, but that would have ruined the fun. And the surprise.
By pulling more than his fair share of very difficult strings that involved weeks of negotiations, bartering and a little bit of intimidation, Cyno has managed to secure something special; a Matra-approved detective licence. Though he would have to liaise with the Matra (something Cyno would, naturally, see to personally), with this licence in hand, Heizou would be free to conduct and pursue cases in Sumeru whenever he saw fit. This, of course, included permanent access to accommodation whenever he visited the nation, all expenses covered by the General Mahamatra himself.
All that’s left is to deliver the somewhat ambitious gift.
Nervousness is not an emotion Cyno experiences frequently, but he feels the stirrings of it now as he stands stiffly at the edge of the dock overlooking the newly arrived ship from Inazuma, his gift hidden away in an envelope behind his back. For a brief moment, Cyno contemplates stuffing the envelope back into his satchel and pretending nothing had happened. What if it’s too much? Too presumptuous? Is he overstepping a line that should not be crossed? All those questions and more swirl inside his head, but are soon silenced as he spots Heizou jogging down the gangplank.
Just the sight of him is enough to quell the restless storm within him; he’ll follow through with his plan, no matter the consequences. His decision made, Cyno relaxes his shoulders, lips curling into a small smile as he takes a short step towards his partner.
“ Aboat time you washed into shore, ” He delivers the poor pun (he’s saving his best for later) with a straight face, drawing his arm from behind his back to hold out the envelope to Heizou. “ For you. Happy birthday. ”
The journey from Inazuma to Sumeru remains surreal to someone as unused to the sight of the ocean entirely encompassing his surroundings as Heizou is even after the dozenth time partaking in it - the endless blue offering him a sense of peace (there are no constraints in the middle of nowhere, no fatal dangers, no murderous creatures, no whimsical lightning strikes to be cautious of) but there is also far too much idle time on his hands to spend within the confines of his mind, faced with naught but the low murmur of the passing waves and the widespread freedom to think of anything and everything without worry of interruption.
Typically, the silence aids in Heizou's endeavors of planning the key points of his trip or cracking ancient yet unsolved cases as a side hobby, but today the silence feels beyond lonely, suffocating rather, as though the detective has found himself underneath the waves rather than above them. It's a common occurrence for his mood to drop as soon as his birthday rolls around, particularly so when he cannot find relief in hiding behind orchestrated distractions to pass the time until his birthday is no more, and a part of him wonders whether it'd have been for the better to schedule this trip for another time, or whether it'd have been simpler on him to extend an offer to someone to join him on the trip.
A hollow laugh escapes at the idea, one hand reaching to touch the stanchion while the redhead gazes towards the horizon. Neither could've worked, for Sara has granted him time off with his special day in mind (an awfully sensible thing of her to do, and frankly Heizou isn't sure how to feel about it) and there isn't anyone he wishes to bother with a request as inane as "spend some time with me" when everyone he knows is leading busy lives that could do without his extra interference. Kazuha isn't there anyway, and Shinobu is busy with interviews... nevermind his family. When was the last time he has even seen any of them, other than his cousin? When was the last time they had even cared to spend his birthday with him, or to gift him anything that wasn't meant for his future as the dojo's owner?
A fleeting pang of his heart ensues at the rather pathetic realization (there is no one else he can deem a friend in the land he's lived all his life, nor do his blood ties care about his existence beyond their own reputation), but an abrupt & rough inhale of air followed by a longwinded exhale (a tested & tried method) breaks the detective out of the depressive slope he may have otherwise found himself sliding down on, and Heizou attempts to refocus his attention onto something better suited for his precious time than brooding. That isn't like him, after all (he never allows it to be).
Although with far more effort than usually required, the hours-long voyage ends without a hitch. Little progress has been made in any of the cases he's tried to piece together along the way, and his mental state hasn't quite recovered from what it has been like ever since the day has started, but resiliently as ever, Heizou finds himself determined to banish the lows and concentrate on the highs as the brief turbulence heralds the ship's arrival in Sumeru. The fact alone seems to brighten the detective's spirits by a smidgen, both as a promise to soon meet with his dear friend, and as a welcoming of distractions sure to come in the shape of the city's hustle and bustle.
Perhaps the sudden wave of excitement at the prospect is what brings some spring to Heizou's steps, but he grows slightly more energized than he'd been until that point, vibrantly making his way onto the docks. It certainly helps that an overly familiar head of white hair also pops into view as soon as he glances in Sumeru's direction, and Heizou cannot help the fond chuckle that escapes him at both at the sight itself and at the very much expected pun that greets him. He's heard better ones before, but Cyno's expressionless way of uttering every joke never fails to bring a smile onto his face, nor does the other's mere presence ever fail to uplift his mood.
It's such a simple thing, and yet Heizou already feels much better than he has all day. ❛ I was wondering what joke you'd be starting today off with. If only my friends from back home knew I have the privilege of hearing puns like these every time I visit Sumeru, they'd be envious for shore. ❜ A warmer smile stretches on his features after replying in kind (a habit he may well fall into in Inazuma too if left unchecked) and for a moment Heizou contemplates opening his mouth again, to either talk about his trip or to inquire about where his accommodations are this time around, or perhaps even to invite Cyno for lunch.
However, the unexpected birthday wish that leaves Cyno's mouth next knocks the air out of Heizou's lungs, his cheerful persona breaking apart for a fleeting moment while his smile subconsciously wavers and his eyes widen in response. There are many emotions swirling through him all at once (shock, confusion, disbelief), plenty of which must have made their way onto the surface as well, and even though verdants manage to glance down at the gift and understand that he isn't imagining it, the redhead remains at a loss (for words, and for what to think of any of this). ❛ ......You... ❜ -knew? ❛ I... ❜ -don't believe I've ever told you when my birthday is.
The lack of cohesion in any of his attempts to speak prompts Heizou to not speak at all, the temporary silence growing fairly awkward while he works on gluing himself back together into a more presentable self. It's with great effort that he manages to smile brightly again (although this time around it tethers on the falser side than the genuine one he'd worn before), brushing off his initial reaction to the gift as simply being shocked by the surprise rather than owning a deep distaste for his birthday & a heavy unfamiliarity to being thought of in such a manner.
How is he meant to readily accept this as reality when no one else has ever put nearly as much effort into celebrating his birthday in all the years he can remember? ❛ You sure know how to leave a man speechless, Cyno. ❜ A laugh, practiced enough to not sound as broken as he feels, and Heizou gracefully extends a hand to welcome and accept the gift. ❛ Do you mind if I open it now, or should I leave it for later? ❜ His tone is upbeat, a stark contrast to the brief accident from moments prior.
Ever so slowly, curiosity peeks its way onto the fray, driving the detective to want to know what gift the other could've spent his resources on with him in mind - though truth be told, Heizou considers himself unable to be disappointed even if nothing but a single coupon lies inside the envelope (the thought alone... the endeavor of finding out when his birthday is in spite of his never mentioning it... the act of gifting him something, anything - that is more than enough for him to forever be grateful to Cyno for).
Heizou's gaze is attentive to every detail on Cyno's face as he waits for an affirmation or a denial to his subtle request (not wishing to impose - especially not now after forcing his friend to watch the sorry sight that constituted his initial reaction to a gift even existing in the first place) and only once he receives the okay for it does he deftly open the envelope, eyes carefully reading the words written on the license he finds inside.
For a second time, Heizou's eyes widen as he forgos the act of breathing entirely, certain that he must be reading something wrong, or failing to pick up on something between the lines. More conscientiously than before, he blinks and rereads it from the top to the bottom, diligently making sure not to gloss over a single word - and yet the result is the same as it had been the first time. The "detective license" words seem to stare back at him alongside the nation the license has been issued by & for, and this is one of the few times in his life that Heizou can attest to an out of body sensation (the first one ever when the occasion that prompted it is happy rather than tragic). "Shikanoin Heizou"... a detective license meant for him, in a nation that he has done little to deserve something this grand? Not to mention how hard it is to obtain one even after proving one's worth---
Inhaling just enough air to keep his body from ceasing to function, Heizou's gaze lifts to stare into Cyno's eyes in a silent query, a plea to tell him now if he's misunderstanding something or interpreting this poorly, but no such negative answer comes, and the reality of it all suddenly hits Heizou akin to a wave hitting a capsizing ship in a stormy night. But this is no stormy night, it's the brightest day he can recall on ever having; and this is no drowning feeling as much as it is the feeling of finally breathing again after having previously been submerged. He opens his mouth to say something - a thank you to express his gratitude, a question from the myriad that are circling in his mind, an anything that might escape him in reply really, but a salty taste finds itself on his tongue, and only after glancing down at the odd drop of water on the license does Heizou realize he's crying.
A low gasp accompanies his realization and the redhead has half a mind to wipe his tears on the back of his hand and try to regain his composure before thanking & reassuring Cyno that these are happy tears rather than sad ones, but instead he glances at his friend again, and the worried expression he's met with only warms his heart further, softening and making it beat even faster than before (to think that Cyno is worrying about him now... even though he's been nothing but a rude mess in the face of a heartfelt gift the other must've been through hellish trials to obtain... it feels almost wrong of him to be as happy about it as he is).
Perhaps he should follow his usual, trusty logic, but the overflow of emotions has even Teyvat's best detective beat - and Heizou can't stop himself from almost jumping into Cyno's arms, tightly embracing him in an attempt to convey how he feels in a way that words could never manage. ❛ Thank you, Cyno... really... I love it. ❜ Is all he manages to shakily let out against Cyno's skin amid the tears (and he'll have to apologize for those too, once he'll catch his breath) but the soft giggle that follows and the grip he has on the other (which spares not even the air that could've separated their bodies) speak enough about Heizou's mood on their own that they'll hopefully ease the anxious tension his friend must feel by even a bit.
The port is generally busy enough to not warrant just anyone a glance, but this particular sight might be an exception to the unspoken rule - after all, when would anyone ever be able to say they've seen someone (a foreigner, no less) happily embracing the General Mahamatra himself, and being met with no punishment for it, ever again? For once, though, Heizou doesn't care to pay potential bystanders any mind, instead focusing every bit of his attention onto the calming scent of Cyno's hair and the coming to terms he has to do with his newfound circumstances.
❛ You really outdid yourself... ❜ A soft whisper, only for the two of them to hear, much like the rest of Heizou's words. ❛ How did you know it's my birthday today...? And how- how did you manage to issue a detective license for me? I know what I went through to get one back in Inazuma, and that's the place I was born... so I know it couldn't have been easy for you to obtain it... ❜ An acknowledgement Cyno most definitely deserves for everything he's done, and although Heizou has managed to somewhat comprehend this situation, he still cannot believe anyone would go this far for him (of their own volition too).
And for his birthday no less, the one day that has given him more anxiety over the years than even the worst of the cases he's worked on. What a deeply ironic thing, to watch the day he's disliked the most now prove to also be his happiest... His heart steadily tempers as he slightly shifts his head to rest his cheek on Cyno's shoulder, making no move to put distance between them (though allowing Cyno to easily do so if desired), and Heizou glances up at the other with a small, authentic smile, awaiting an answer while remaining partly deep in his own thoughts.
Come to think of it... this is the first honest gift he's received that has even a smidgen to do with his own interests rather than the giver's... isn't it?
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