#how they're so similar and different too | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

necrotic-nephilim · 1 month ago

Text

i personally have very complicated feelings on the Gotham Knights video game and the routes it takes with characterization. i think it has a charm to it and it goes in an interesting direction with everyone (especially within the confides of the plot of the game) but it does have certain moments that veer painfully fanon for me. (such as: the dialogue where Tim drinks too much coffee) it's an interesting story for what it is but i don't view it comics-based for characterization and therefore don't care to interact with it much for like. fanfic purposes.

that *said* though. i do have to give the game some kind of credit for giving one of the top five JayTim moments that lives rent free in my mind. every since i played the game, the cutscene lives in my mind daily. it's the specific cutscene where Jason and Tim are arguing about whether or not Jason's non-lethal bullets are too dangerous for the field, and the argument leads to TIm *standing in front of the target* Jason is shooting and telling Jason to shoot him. it lives rent free for me. i never stop thinking about this.

the absolute certainty Tim has that he is in no danger standing in front of Jason, who has a loaded gun pointed at his face. the way Jason *hesitates* for just a moment before lowering the gun. he thinks about it for just a second. Gotham Knights JayTim seem to get along very well and can rely on each other, but Jason still clearly holds a bitterness about his death and Tim that flickers through in some lines of dialogue under the guise of jokes. especially since this game deals *heavily* with concepts of Pit Madness causing an altered state of consciousness, i think it's believable that occasionally, Jason fights the urge to fight and hurt Tim for the feeling of being replaced.

i like their tension so much in this canon. they get along but you can *tell* Tim is afraid of addressing Jason's trauma or even addressing Jason head-on, and Jason leans into spooking Tim about it. which isn't very comics feeling in their dynamic, but it is an interesting way to place their dynamic if you're playing with a more timid Tim who's newer to the role of Robin. (which he seems to be in-game) he really doesn't want to offend Jason, or worse, piss him off. but he'll still face Jason head on for things like this, while completely aware of what Jason could be capable of.

and Jason seems very protective of Tim and respecting Tim as a Robin in typical Jason fashion. if Tim pushes, Jason *will* relent. he knows this is a kid who's proved himself and should be treated with equal respect, sometimes even more than Dick and Babs do in-game.

so for all that to culminate in Tim stepping in front of Jason's loaded gun that he *knows* is on the edge of being too dangerous, just to force Jason to listen? it's the most unhinged way Tim could've gotten his point across in this scene. he was literally daring Jason to hurt him and playing with a very dangerous fire. but he did it anyway bc he believed he could make Jason heel just at the thought of hurting Tim. and he was *right*. they're gay and i'm feral ty.

#necrotic festerings #jaytim #tim drake x jason todd #gotham knights game #i hate their character designs for what it's work #BUT the size difference. jesus.#anyway i could write a gotham knights jaytim fic i think #i'm *very* unsure the ages intended for these characters #bc tim certainly seems to be intended to be a teenager #whereas jason seems in his 20s so i think it's a gap that's bigger than the comics #which also makes it fun. usually you don't get a ton of age gap with jaytim they're just under 2 yrs apart #but this tim is definitely still a teen and jason is an adult.#and seems to enjoy being a bad influence on tim in the game so #there's such good fodder for some dead dove shit #anyway the funny thing is i like this game #you don't want to know how many hours i've played it #it's just best treated as a seperate iteration of the characters than being an adaptation of anything #esp since they're *so* vague and waffly on jason's backstory #as well as not giving a ton of info on how tim became robin #you assume it's similar to comics but some details leave gaps in the timeline. so idek #probably not somehting meant to be thought about too hard.#but i'm an overthinker at heart.#my point is they're gay. this is gay. it baffles me ppl don't look at this as the gayest shit alive.#tim daring jason to shoot him is the most tim drake thing in this game #well that and tim wanting to make a talon in the belfrey.#also NO one say a word about the gif quality /lh #i had to make it MYSELF #i do everything around here to show off their gay shit #sorta tempted to just make a masterpost of “every gay ass interaction between jaytim”#bc i've seen some clips from the titans show

158 notes · View notes

the-judicial-assistants-notebook · 2 years ago

Text

Okay. Let's talk about Kay in The Forgotten Turnabout.

I've mentioned in a post before how I think Kay doesn't have a purpose in AAI2 (as in, AAI was all about the Yatagarasu which is her story, but AAI2 generally has nothing to do with her, and you can see this change just by looking at how she's positioned in the promotional material for the two games:

[left AAI; right AAI2.] In the left poster, while she's at Edgeworth's back, it's clear that they're both the main focus. In the right, though, she's on par with Gumshoe).

And I think the result of her slight lack of direction in the game culminates in what happens to her and her character in Forgotten.

From the beginning of AAI2, you can kind of tell that Kay was written to a bit different from how she was in AAI. She's still fairly consistent with how she was there, but the game kind of bounces between her original characterisation and her newer one, where she's slightly denser (see her calling the laser pointer a mole in Target, when she should definitely have known what it was; and them explaining to her what a prison is in Imprisoned like she wouldn't know??) and less concerned with maintaining formality around Edgeworth, although they haven't interacted since the end of AAI (see her partner opening line changing from "Yes?" to "Yeah, what's up?"). She also seems more eager for his approval (there are a few times when she questions/asserts her effectiveness as an assistant when I don't remember her ever doing that in AAI), and, overall just a little more like Maya.

In Imprisoned, when she freaks out, Kay hits Ray, which is notable because we've only seen her resort to violence before on purpose and as a child (whereas Mia/Maya have both hit people out of emotion). I'm not going to go through the whole game, but I bring it up because there's an argument to be made that they're trying to replicate the Phoenix-Maya dynamic and push the Dadworth interpretation in AAI2 -- probably because they realised it'd be popular with the fans -- and this comes to the forefront in Forgotten.

First, just a note about AA's amnesia cases. The thing about these cases is that they're usually done to explore some formerly unseen aspect of a character (as is with Phoenix and the one in DGS), BUT they're always true to the nature of the character (as is most clearly observed with Thalassa). This is... not so in Forgotten.

The parts about Kay that appear to remain in Forgotten are her politeness and sense of honour, both of which get dialed up to 11 and both of which we already know she possess. Everything else about her personality, though, is altered and has always reminded me of Iris (if you made a parody of Iris's soft and seemingly delicate nature). That's mostly because (1) they have similar sprites

and (2) because they're rehashing Edgeworth's mini arc in T&T (which I don't mind because T&T did leave room for that concept to be explored further) where he acts as the defence for, you guessed it, Iris. Looking at it more closely, though, I can definitely see bits of Maya mixed in, too.

The most obvious parallel to Maya, and by extension Phoenix, here is that you act as a... not-prosecutor who defends their assistant from murder charges that even they think they might be guilty of (Reunion, and Turnabout, anyone?). Just like Reunion Maya, Forgotten Kay has poor self-esteem (albeit to a greater, comedic degree), thinks of herself as weak and useless, and becomes reliant on Edgeworth for both her emotional and situational needs (this is not a dig at Maya; she was in jail after having her first big channeling session result in death. Her reaction was natural).

Another less serious but obvious alteration made to make Kay seem more like Maya here is her relationship with food -- which I know sounds ridiculous but!! It's really what tipped me off to her Maya-fication to begin with!!!

You see, in Forgotten, there's a point where Kay talks about hamburgers:

Kay: Umm... OK. I remember a faint scent... It was a wonderful smell coming from the counter of a food stall... I followed the fragrance, only to find a perfectly sculpted burger, resting on two golden buns... The tender and juicy patty made my taste buds sing with joy... Yes, I can remember what I thought at that moment! ...I want seconds!

The thing about this that stands out to me is that you never get a line about food like this from Kay in AAI; and I know this, because not only is the only time Kay ever brings up food in AAI with regards to Swiss rolls (which are notably her favourite treats), you have the option of presenting food to her, which gives you this dialogue:

Kay: It's a box of Samurai Dogs, right? Ah, but see, I'm a Jammin' Ninja fan! So, while I would love to have one... I'm going to be strong and resist the urge!

She would have one but she'll refrain. It blatantly goes against how she acts in Forgotten, and it's so obvious that they only did that to make her more like Maya!!! They even use burgers!!!!

So why am I even getting all uppity about this? There's nothing wrong with being like Maya is there? She's a great character. And, yeah, she is, but the point of Kay is that she's meant to be a foil to Maya... and Edgeworth.

Both Maya and Edgeworth lost their parents at a very young age. So did Kay. But, unlike Maya and Edgeworth, Kay was specifically written to have had the emotional support and strength she needed to move on from her father's death. Her character was created in a way that shows how you can still love and respect a dead family member (and choose to continue their legacy) without being held back by grief and trauma the way Edgeworth largely is. By making amnesiac Kay behave in a way that is so self-deprecating and reliant on other people for her emotional needs, you are implying that this has been who she is deep inside all along and diluting that message of being able to move forwards while still holding onto your love for the people you've lost. It undermines the resilience that has been a part of Kay's core as a character from her conception, and basically flattens everything that makes her... Kay.

Now, this is obviously not great, but what really gets to me about this is that they didn't need to do this for the case to still work. They could have given Kay a milder form of amnesia, where she has a gap in her memory regarding why she was up on that roof and what happened, and the story would have largely functioned the same way. The only reason I can think of for why they do a complete 180 on her personality is because they wanted to use her to develop Edgeworth's character.

Because think about it: we've seen Kay put in a position where she's been accused of murder before, and that didn't affect our or Edgeworth's desire to save her. That drama and the feelings invoked by placing Kay at such risk would still exist; the only thing that would change is Kay's reaction to it. We know from Ablaze that she wouldn't just fold and rely on Edgeworth's help; she would fight back. Her behaviour in Forgotten just doesn't quite align with her usual character (aside from being extremely honourable and polite), which makes me wonder why they did it. And the only answer I can find is that it gives Edgeworth someone to 'save' in the greatest sense of that word (because, remember, she's also extremely emotionally vulnerable and dependent on him here) and furthers his development as a character.

You remember at the beginning when I said Kay didn't have a purpose in this game? I think the developers felt that, too, and they decided that her purpose would be to make Edgeworth a better person and strengthen his arc by giving him someone to protect, without really considering what this would do to her character. This case was never about Kay; it was always about Edgeworth. And, honestly, that should have been obvious from the very moment you realise that Kay is being granted an amnesia plotline, because that whole thing about amnesia in AA being used to reveal parts of a character previously unseen? Yeah, that was never going to work with Kay. Because Kay doesn't wear a mask. She is who she is... until she isn't.

Honestly, I've said pretty much everything I wanted to say about Forgotten and Kay, so thank you if you've read this far. I really appreciate it 💝💖💕 The rest of this is me basically talking about how this change affects my feelings on the game and this interpretation of the Kay-Edgeworth dynamic, so you can stop reading now if that doesn't interest you and still get the basic point of this post.

I suppose I'll start by reiterating that I do like AAI2 despite what it may seem. The characters it introduces are some of my favourites in the franchise, and, in fact, the actual plot of Forgotten with the PIC is my favourite part of the entire game. I thought it was brilliant, but I just needed to get this out because... I don't know, it was bothering me for some reason hskdhdj Like, AA has some amazing female characters, but I know better than to go into it expecting some kind of boundary-pushing piece of new feminist media, believe me; it doesn't surprise me that they used Kay to push Edgeworth's character forwards. It is his game, after all. But I guess it's just a little frustrating to see after they genuinely achieved something great with her characterisation in AAI only to... there's no less inflammatory way to put it, infantilise her? a little? for the sake of developing a male character?

(Especially when I don't think Edgeworth even needed it?? Like, I'm pretty sure he would have been just as adamant about saving her if she had been her normal self so mmm???? It was likely just done to make him seem liked he'd be a good father and up his popularity a bit more, honestly. As if he needed it).

Again, I have no issues with anyone who enjoys the father-daughter (or brother-sister) dynamics pushed by this case; it's literally in the text, I can't say you're wrong for it and like. My opinion shouldn't matter to you anyway! It's fandom, do what makes you happy. But I personally can't get past what is actually being suggested when the game, or fanworks, echo the traits grafted onto Kay in this case within them. Like what it means when she's essentially made to take a few steps back so she's less as at peace with her father's death than she was when we first met her, or less independent and self-assured than she usually is -- especially when this is done only for an older male character (most likely Edgeworth but it could be anyone) to come in and either see themselves in her, thus coming to a conclusion that helps them better themselves in some way, or take on a "fatherly" position that lets them comfort her back to a level of confidence she would usually be at anyway, while simultaneously coming across as being such a good person (which is usually the focus/point of these kinds of things).

And, like, if you don't see a problem with Kay's characterisation in this version of their relationship, that's perfectly fine! If you think I'm reaching and do enjoy the Dadworth dynamic for what it is, then please don't let me rain on your parade. My main thing is that I want better for Kay, and this case just didn't satisfy my need for that.

Anyway, yeah! That's pretty much it. Thank you so much for everyone who read all of this, and I hope you got some amusement out of it if nothing else. Feel free to tell me your thoughts, too!

#ace attorney #kay faraday #ace attoney investigations 2 #aai2 #i didnt put many concrete details about the case here so i think people who havent played it yet wont get spoiled? but ofc i encourage #everyone to play it and form your own opinions. this is just in case youre wondering what my new EMBARRASSINGLY long post is about and want #to read it blind hskdhdks #i didnt put this in the post but another thing that's funny about this case is how they minimise its effect by pushing the nick-maya #similarities right from the start of the game. like you'd expect this case to have drastic long lasting implications on their relationship #but because they're already shown to be closer at the start and because marrying amnesia kay's character to normal kay's is so mindboggling #(they are honestly just two completely different characters) it doesnt really change anything between her and edgeworth?? it's quite funny #because she literally just says 'thanks! :D👍' and then they never bring it up again. it's so. it feels like they tried to have their cake #and eat it too and they somehow blew up the oven

68 notes · View notes