#hope this made vague sense

[candyheartedchy]

So uh… I might end up with a live action f/o…

[sea-buns]

Forgive me if I'm a bit nervous about Gorgug this season. It's just that the last Zac Oyama pc was Colin Provolone, who was arguably one of his greatest D20 performances, if not the greatest.

Zac always does great with every pc he plays, but Colin was something else. He came out swinging with actions and words that were teeming with unspoken emotional baggage. The way Colin's presence affected the other pcs; there was this level of depth that I don't think I've seen in any of his other characters. It was understated and quiet in that signature "just a guy" way that he tends to be, while still captivating everyone instantly with just how raw it was.

Not to say we haven't seen emotional depth in Gorgug. It's just that, compared to the other Bad Kids, Gorgug's journey and progression as a character has been very... impersonal? Like, yes, he found his birth parents, and he found friends who appreciate him, and he faced his insecurities about his intelligence, and he navigated relationship troubles, and his trial through the claustrophobic bug-tunnels was a horrifically-uncanny parallel to how he's spent his entire life trying to make himself as small as possible.

But how much of that has actually changed him from the Gorgug we started with? I would agree that he's definitely happier with his life, given all the loving and supportive people that have been added to it when it used to be just him and his parents. And he's certainly grown into himself and become more self-assured in his abilities, even if he's still, and always will be, our anxious little guy. And there's nothing wrong with that. I've always liked how Gorgug was a representation of all the little things. The subtle acts and kindnesses that don't seem like much to most, but to some are everything.

We don't need another Bad Kid living in fear that their mouth could be shit-in at any moment. We've already got one-too-many.

All that being said, I just feel like Gorgug's personal story beats are much easier to sweep under the rug than everyone else's. He has the same soft and understated quality that Colin held, but they lack that extra oomph that pushed Colin over the edge from being just another guy in a series of dudes, to a character that the vast majority of us could not get out of our heads. He took someone who was anxious and softspoken, who ultimately never wanted to be violent— someone who is remarkably similar to Gorgug in many ways— and maintained that demeanor and core in Colin's character while still hitting us in the feels with character development at max velocity at every turn.

I think Zac gets better and better at this with every season that goes by. With each new character, there is always something that leaves me stunned in awe. And it's been, what, three? Four years since we last saw Gorgug?

I'm just,,, I'm cautiously optimistic but also going into a bit of a worry about what violence this man may inflict upon us

[skunkes]

unsure how to word this but there is something about having ocs with unsavory events happening in their past where it's like. talking about it, even when asked, seems almost gratuitous and inappropriate. and i'd much rather describe it through the oc themself and/or draw Them saying it. which is like. fitting for the subject matter? like of course its weird to talk about somebody else's business...!

and falls back into humanizing em/exploratory writing and development where u consider the impact of words said/words unsaid/HOW those words are said etc etc

[ghoul--doodle]

I'm interested to know more of the context behind the drawings with Bailey and his plushie! What happened to him and his family?

Bailey and his family were involved in an accident on- a mode of public transportation, shall we say

Bailey had been given the plushie a short time before the incident, and he’d been carrying it with him during the crash

He was badly injured and rushed to hospital, which resulted in the loss of his eye, among other things

Bailey was one of the sole survivors of the incident, he’d unfortunately lost his parents through the whole ordeal

And he was adopted into a new family not long after

His memories surrounding the accident, and even before, are incredibly foggy for him and he doesn’t particularly remember much at all

But he remembers the plushie!

He remembers that it was a gift from his parents and he absolutely treasures it

During his stay in the hospital while he was recovering some of the staff removed one of the buttons on the plushie’s face so Bailey wouldn’t be so scared upon learning he’d lost one of his

It was a huge comfort for him through the whole thing, and he still goes back to using it for comfort as an adult, it’s one thing he’ll never toss away if he can help it

He just knows it’s important to him

[kikizoshi]

youre learning Russian, right? I've also started learning with borrowed textbooks, and the consensus I've seen online is that its not enough, and that a course is necessary. if you don't mind I'd be really appreciative to know how you got where you are and if you think that's true.

Спасибо за помощь (ღゝ◡╹)ノ♡

Unfortunately, I don't really know what I'm doing either. Just kinda stumbling through, and "where I am" isn't all that far. I can only ever be an authority on what helps me learn Russian; in my experience, there's never been a one-to-one, "follow these steps I took to become fluent" method. Everyone has to figure out their own quirks. (And if this isn't true for someone then I'm very jealous of that person.)

I've seen about as many different opinions as there are ways to learn. Some think you need courses. Some think courses are useless. Some like textbooks; others hate them. The one consistent thing seems to be input--everyone agrees you need a lot of comprehensible input (meaning, you understand some of what you're consuming). But is a course necessary? I don't think so. Whether it could be vastly beneficial or a waste of time and money is something that depends entirely on the person's learning style. A resource I've linked further down may help you determine whether it'd help you. I've never taken a course, so I don't have any experience there.

Also: I have ADHD, so everything here is working around that. Motivation is a massive issue for me, and I've generally found that forcing my way through something droll for long periods of time just... isn't something I can make myself do. It burns me out. I try to make everything something I want to do, or at least not very painful. But my methods are also slower and less effective than something more structured.

Comprehensible Input

How I got to it being helpful:

People go on about comprehensible input all the time, and I can see why; it's extremely important. It's what finally moved me from mid-A1 to late-A2. But actually getting to a place where input even can be comprehensible was so horrifically painful for me that for a long while I felt completely inept. So, here's the things I did, in order, that I think helped:

A0-A1 (not helpful yet)

Duolingo + Twitter: Don't get me wrong--I hate Duolingo. And non-fanart Twitter. But it was a great combination for learning Cyrillic. I used Duolingo's earliest levels to get familiar with Cyrillic and some very basic words. Concurrently, I followed some Russian fanartists on Twitter who also posted text posts frequently, and turned notifs on for them. That made it so that 3-5 times a day, I would get a notification for a post in Russian, and I would practise reading/sounding out Cyrillic. I wasn't too focused on understanding what the post was saying, just getting a familiarity with the alphabet.

Memrise + Anki: Pain. God, so much pain. This was the worst. Necessary and effective, but the absolute, God-forsaken worst. Once I felt comfortable enough with Cyrillic, I started working through two decks: a. Memrise: vlarya's 10k most common Russian words deck. It goes in order of most to least common, has audio, and has typing practise. This replaces Duolingo. (When Memrise inevitably removes community courses altogether, feel free to ask for a backup of this deck. If I'm still on here by then, I should be able to give my backup that works with Anki.) I don't recommend Memrise's official courses. b. Anki: Neri's Russian Sentences (blog link) deck is great for practising the simple words you're learning with Memrise, getting common phrases down, and starting to see how Russian as a language comes together. It'll take a bit to click. c. keybr: I also started practising a little with keybr, mainly because having to type in Russian on Memrise sucks with the on-screen keyboard. keybr is the best site I've found to learn to touch type different keyboards. It's extremely effective. If you're already a touch-typer, a few hours should be enough to type well enough for Memrise.

YouTube: Russian With Max's 'For Beginners' Playlist was really helpful and motivating, at this point. He speaks slowly, simply, and clearly enough that I could understand him, where I couldn't understand anyone else yet.

I... God, I hate the A0-A1 stage so much. You can't do anything. At least now, I can watch TikToks, read comments, enjoy memes, and understand enough of those to enjoy myself. The stage where you understand nothing is by far the most awful to me. I wish I had anything to make it more bearable, but it's really just the worst. Hopefully you're either past this already, or close to past it. The small mercy is that it doesn't take too long to claw your way out of.

A1-A2 (helpful now)

[Active Immersion] Memrise + Reading/Watching (comp input): keep working through vlarya's 10k deck. My routine is: speed review due cards; finish the 10 cards I started learning yesterday; start learning 10 new words today. That's my reps and warmup. Then, depending on my mood, I'll either read at least 30 mins of 'Дом, в котором...' (with or without audiobook, again depending on mood), or watch at least 30 mins of Max's intermediate vids w/ Russian subtitles. Sometimes in my free time I'll watch Russian lit or ДВК TikToks.

[Passive Immersion] Music/Audiobooks/Let's Plays: pretty self-explanatory. My passive input isn't as comprehensible rn, but I focus on things I enjoy. A let's play to fall asleep to, an audiobook while I'm doing something that requires on-and-off focus. The goal here is just to understand snatches of whatever I can, not so much the whole thing. Eventually, those snatches become more frequent.

I'm sure more dedicated study would help me a lot right now, but I don't really have the time or motivation to, so I don't try to force it.

Regarding Russian language learning YouTube channels, and why I only recommend Max:

I've found that most popular Russian learning YouTube channels feel... well, like school. They're not very interesting, they don't feel very organic. It doesn't feel like I'd be watching their videos for any other reason than learning Russian, which is bad for me, because I need to make Russian part of my life to have any motivation to do it.

So, the reason I like Max's channel so much is that he talks about things that're actually interesting and relevant to me. This video is a personal favourite, but he has a lot of videos about all sorts of topics--some of which I'm genuinely interested in. And his demeanour is more vlogger, less teacher. I like him as a person. (Protip: in this stage, don't be afraid to start his intermediate videos early, even if you don't feel you're there yet. It can still be very helpful to pick out the words you do know, and most of his videos have Russian and English subtitles if you're confused.)

Regarding how to find a good Russian book to read:

I... don't know. Reading ДВК with the audiobook really, really helped with my reading ability, and continues to. I can't state enough how important it was for me. But how to find a book that you can read over and over again... I don't know. I just know that Harry Potter would be absolute torture.

I've seen people say that you should start reading simple things, like children's stories. I personally haven't done much of that, because children's stories bore me out of my mind, but if you like them then I'd give that a shot. I've also heard that Chekhov's stories are good for beginners (I've heard that about Pushkin too, but I'm not sure how easy poetry would be to understand). Read-alongs on YouTube could be good too. Russian With Max has some old livestream read-alongs, and there are plenty of Russian read-alongs on YouTube.

Aside - if you're curious about 'Дом, в котором...', this fan-made trailer is the entire reason I picked up ДВК; the vibes captivated me and I had to know what it was about. So for anyone interested: if the trailer looks cool to you, you may like the book. The English translation is called 'The Gray House'. ДВК is fairly long, and different POV characters have differing levels of complexity with the language. The early chapters are the simpler ones, conveniently, so starting from the beginning should be fine. It's a slice-of-life type story, so easy to pick up and put down. I recommend the Князев audiobook, which is almost certainly the one you'll find if you search 'дом в котором аудиокнига' (it's a fan-made audiobook, so I don't think you can buy it, but like LOTR the fan version is by far the best).

Resources

r/languagelearning's resources page is a good place to skim through, see if anything sticks out. I recommend reading through their 'How to Teach Yourself a Foreign Language'. It's good for giving you an idea of how different people learn, different learning methods, how those methods work for others, and what might work for you.

Refold's Roadmap is very helpful for me to understand where I'm currently at, and what sort of activities it would be beneficial for me to be working on. I use their definition of levels (i.e. A1), so if I wasn't clear what I meant by A1 vs A2, reading through this could be helpful.

SRS:

Anki's for decks I have to create myself, or if I need a more specialised deck. I prefer Memrise for vocab, mainly for typing practise and the better UI. If you want to use Anki for vocab: Refold's ru15k deck is good for A2+. There are plenty of simple word decks to pick from for A0-A1. If you want to word mine to create your own Anki decks, see FLTR below.

Grammar:

New Penguin Russian Course is supposed to be good for grammar. I looked through it, and it does look good. If you understand grammar. I don't, but putting it here for those who do.

Reading:

u/La_Nuit_Americaine's post about reading helps me with motivation, and gave me some pointers about how to do it.

FLTR (Foreign Language Text Reader) is a good Windows program alternative to LingQ, if you can't or don't want to pay for LingQ's subscription. You have to input the word definitions yourself. I used Reverso and Yandex Translate together for this. Your word list can be exported to Anki.

ReadLang is supposed to be a good web-based alternative to LingQ (its free level is still usable, unlike LingQ's). I've not used it much, but it seems pretty good. My preference is using some translation extension that will let you click on a word and automatically translate it and move on quickly. Simple Translate on Firefox is what I use.

Video Media:

Language Reactor is a subtitle extension for YouTube, Netflix, etc. that has a bunch of cool features. I hardly use it because it's not on Firefox, but if you use Chrome, Opera, etc., it's really handy. For YouTube, it will translate the auto-generated subs for videos, so if you have a Russian video that only has Russian auto-generated subtitles, you can use Language Reactor to get English subtitles.

Other ADHD Accommodations:

Being kind to myself is very important. I can't make myself study by thinking "why can't you just" or "it's not that hard, what's wrong with you". I can't make myself study with positive words either, but using positive language helps my morale so that I have more motivation to study more often.

I use a different browser (Opera) solely for learning Russian. I chose Opera because Language Reactor works on it (would've used Chrome but Chrome is set up for work), but the general idea is having a separate space for Russian. I put Opera's language in Russian, and I keep all my Russian-learning tabs open there, so that when I'm ready to study it's as simple as opening Opera. Having it separated like that also helps my brain see active study as a task that can be opened and closed, rather than combined with everything else (Firefox).

I try to give myself enough options of things to do for immersion that it's always a choice. My brain has so many different states: motivated; unmotivated; foggy; clear; distracted; focused. Each one will want--or even need--something different. If it's a foggy day, I may be able to read along ДВК with an audiobook, but not able to read words without that help. If I'm distracted, TikToks may help more than reading; if I'm focused, reading may help more than TikToks. Or if I'm completely unmotivated, watching one of Max's vids is more passive than reading, therefore less painful.

I love Russian. Not much to this one. I don't think I could stick to learning a language I didn't love for the sake of the language itself.

I wasted time and motivation watching things I wasn't interested in, trying to find media in Russian that appealed to me. I don't recommend that. I don't know the alternative, but I always felt horrible about myself after. It's important to have media you like, but forcing it won't work. Russian movies don't interest me. Everyone else's favourite Russian YouTubers don't appeal to me at all. TikTok is much better for me in that regard, because I can search for specific fandoms that interest me. Luck seems to be the only thing that works for finding good YouTubers.

Textbooks are my kryptonite. I can't use them. They drain motivation so fast. If they work for you, that's great. If they don't, I don't know that forcing it is the solution. It wasn't for me.

I scroll language learning subreddits sometimes for motivation. It's not productive, generally. But it's fun. And I do get some ideas sometimes.

I've mostly accepted that my progress is going to be slower than others. I'm trying not to compare myself. I'm enjoying it now, mostly, learning slowly but learning, and each time I reaffirm that that's okay, it becomes truer.

[arolesbianism]

I wanna take a crack at making some fake screenshot graphics for my Sif Odile duo loopers au but I do not feel confident enough in my ability to mimic isat's art style and I also have a crippling fear of drawing backgrounds

[astralprisms]

Was wondering why this particular gith face always feels like it suits baldness best and then I realized it IS in fact Orpheus' face model, Orph just has different unique ears.

Anyway welcome back, dreadwolf.

[mordremrose]

I’m just gonna write a little thing! A little thought for Bloom, nothing too intense, just so I don’t forget it!

1000 words later? Whoops

Writing below the cut, major spoilers for the end of Heart of Thorns and implied End of Dragons spoilers but nothing explicit from EoD :]

Bloom

“Kill me, Commander.” Trahearne could hear his own voice tremble, as horror overtook his dear friend’s face. Around them all, their friends— Rytlock, Caithe, Canach, Marjory, Braham— were exhausted. Worn thin by the fight against the jungle dragon, both physical and within the Dream.

“What? No! Mordremoth is dead. We destroyed its mind from the inside.” The commander protested, their fingers curled around the hilt of Caladbolg.

“But I still hear its voice.” Trahearne looked down at his hands, twisted and blighted as they were. His body was not his— he was corrupted. It was only cruel fate that he had kept his mind this long. Or perhaps something more sinister.

“Mordremoth is alive. One last hateful vestige… a terrible seed, planted deep in my mind.”

Trahearne’s hands curled into fist, as he took a deep steadying breath.

“You must kill me, Commander, before that seed grows. Before… before Mordremoth reclaims what it has lost.”

He reached out now, hands on his friend’s shoulders. The tears streaming down their face broke his heart. He did not want this. He didn’t want to hurt them, to see them suffer so.

Trahearne wished there was another way.

“What is left of me can’t survive on its own, my friend.” He croaked, and felt the Commander tremble beneath his hands. Were they always so small?

“Strike now or—“

Against his will, a rage rose up. A sick bile that boiled in his stomach and burned through his chest as his mind lurched.

Through his mouth, Mordremoth spoke.

“I am the future! I am this world! You cannot destroy me!” The dragon roared, hands tightening around the commander.

“Run while you can!” It took everything he had left to force his fingers to uncurl, to release the commander even as the dragon wanted to tear them to shreds to be remade anew.

Caladbolg flashed in the corner of his eye.

“No!” The commander yelled. Strike true my friend! Trahearne wanted to yell. But he couldn’t, and his mind went dark.

There was no great explosion. There was no dying scream.

If you asked those present what happened, none of them gave any concrete answer.

Canach hesitated to answer, but would confirm that Mordremoth was no longer hounding his mind, or any of the sylvari.

All Rytlock would say was that the confrontation wasn’t pretty.

Caithe mourned Trahearne, in her quiet and melancholic manner, and asked not to push the matter further.

Braham would scowl, shake his head, and shove his way past, unwilling or perhaps unable to describe that final blow.

Marjory Delaqua, normally so elegant and clever with her words, who could see the twists of a plot before anyone else— when she was asked, she could only shake her head and reply ‘I don’t know’.

The Commander didn’t answer at all, because no one was able to find them to ask.

Eventually, researchers at the newly established lab of Rata Novus confirmed what the entire world held its breath to hear.

Mordremoth was dead. He had to be, to explain the slow steady trickle of magic escaping the jungle, supposedly as the dragon… decayed wasn’t the right word, but it conveyed the idea well enough. It was a slow death, they said, not quite the explosive reaction from Zhaitan, who had gorged itself on magic before its death, but a gradual decay. It changed things, about magic, about how the people of Tyria and the soon to be established Dragon’s Watch understood the flow of magic around and through the Elder Dragons. But it was dead.

It had to be.

He woke up. His body ached, as it always did, as he woke. A consequence of being too bigsmall. He stirred slowly, limbs stretching out and tail dragging behind. He had buried himself beneath massive vines this time, the weight of them both familiar and restricting. These conflicting sensations, the constant disagreement with himself… it was the only thing he could rely on. Even his name escaped his memory, although he could hear whispers of it on the edges of his mind.

Traherdremaneth.

It didn’t matter, really.

He moved slowly, not truly wanting to rise, but knowing he must.

He was something in between, and there was no stillness for him. No place of his own.

His one companion, if you could call it that, would be upon him soon. A dogged purserer, both a thorn in his side and a trusted ally, trailed behind him. For a time he thought they left him— and the feelings that had wrought left him stationary in a deep cave for nearly a week before they had reappeared.

He didn’t want them close, he knew that much, but they were one of the few things he had, a consistency. He couldn’t see them well, not with the distance between them, but he could always make out the broken blade at their hip. The one that made the scar across his chest ache.

He wondered what would happen if he let them get closer. Would they strike? Would they know him?

They were his enemyfriend. What would they make of him? Caution kept him at a distance from them.

The longer he was awake, the more memories he could half-remember.

The Orrian landscape stretches out before him and it reeks of his sibling, twisting beneath the dirt. The undead don’t notice him, not yet, and he can take a moment to look closer at the coral. It was neither alive nor dead. Not unlike himself and yet so different to him or anything he had ever encountered before.

He missed his siblings, their quiet talks among the then empty roots, among safe coils with their constant presence around him. They were too distant to feel or simply gone now and it unnerved him. This was wrong. Perhaps they could help him make it right.

There was one other thing, other than his sort-of companion and his unsteady roiling mind, that remained constant. And this was the true constant. A steady beacon, that he could not see or hear, but simply felt in a way that he could not describe. A magnetic sort of pull that had him orbiting closer and closer.

It drew him in, out of the depths and dark underbelly of the jungle and the cave systems, towards the strange golden stones, the elegant walls meant to keep out creatures that wished to destroy the beacon. He was not welcome there, not yet, even though he meant no harm. He just needed to be closer.

He didn’t know how he knew that. He just knew it.

[redgoldblue]

.

[keeps-ache]

and i Don't need to be detailed or very realistic with my worldbuilding! because L. ron hubbard existed at some point and

[r0semultiverse]

I don’t know, me personally, I just think two adults playing pretend & pretending being gross together with full open communication & consent between them is harmless, but maybe that’s just me.

[misiahasahardname]

For this

I think it's your love for Michelangelo and also transfem ninja turtles :3

absolutely what i want to be known for!!!!!!!!

[hazeism]

Book Demerzel was male in the past too! She is Gender.

Ooh, okay, so I guess my understanding of things is kind of impaired by the fact that I'm still on Edge (I went in in-universe chrono, though--I mean I did the Empire books all jumbled because I read Pebble ages and ages ago and then the other two came in as holds from my library in the wrong order hahah--so I started the Foundation novels with Prelude) and have yet to read and Earth which I think he returns in? So I might be missing a huge amount of context regarding his presentation/interpretation/etc. etc.

Most of my ideas about Daneel's complication regarding gender mostly conform to my understanding of him (any pronouns apply 🥰🥰 but I'm used to he so I'll just go with that for now) as a fundamentally resolved, instrumental thing--though cornered of course by minimalism and limited knowledge--who has the luxury (?) of more readily identifying the contextual applications of gender, combined then with millenia of insight into the fluid/arbitrary drifts of social and cultural mores, plus his own schematics of prioritization and internalization... I think he is on like extradimensional levels of gender, internally, and I hope there is canon basis for him taking upon himself some gendered aspects in a functional/teleological manner (as he takes on other aspects of personhood! even Demerzel himself is an adopted aspect!) because I think that even if that goes uninterrogated (as so many things in these novels do GRRR!) it has even more necessary implications for his internal cognitions of gender!!!!

That said I DO also think there's something to be said about the amount of gendered socialization he gets in his most formative years (especially from his Earthman who knows his sociological formulas but does not have a very sophisticated or unblemished understanding of gender politicssdbfkdj)--which is undercut by his state of subjection and perpetual qualification and Othering from people who do know his true nature, and then the implication of Deceit (not what I believe him to be doing--at least in the context of gender/lack thereof but definitely how it would be interpreted by towards people who don't know what he is which like. very transgender existence tbh being considered inherently deceitful) but this all just makes it more texturally complex and interesting and makes him even better at being soooo gender. Love that thing!!!!

[roostertuftart]

I know you're the Kyle expert, but I knew a guy who thought Stan would be an incel. Thoughts?

Hmmm. Idk, I've seen that float around and I don't really get it?? Like, I can sorta get it more than when people seriously say it about Kyle. Stan definitely seems to fall into more... Viewing girls sort of in that perhaps lightly internally sexist way than Kyle seems to, of having some sort of unintentional separation between boys and girls that makes him kind of view girls as very different types of people friendwise, if that makes sense. Like, say he was dating a guy- I don't think much would change in terms of the guy being an extremely close friend who's been elevated up an extra level to romantic. But Wendy isn't really like that. She's not Stan's friend outside of their relationship.

And okay, that's not to say Kyle is a bastion of anti sexism himself, ESPECIALLY noting earlier seasons, but Kyle doesn't really seem to act the same way Stan does when interacting with girls?? His early season sexism felt more innocent and childish, something he's definitely grown out of now. It was less built on this deep internalized toxic masculinity and more like the "eww cooties" ideas that happen a lot with young kids. Obviously division based on traits like sex is not good under any circumstance, but it doesn't seem to have carried on much in his modern view of girls. Nowadays Kyle just seems to view girls far more equally even when divided from them, and cares more about listening or hearing out where they're coming from and understanding their frustration with sexism, for example. While he doesn't really have many close female friends (and really none of the boys actually do besides Stan), his behavior doesn't really shift at all to trying to be gentlemen-y or something around women, denoting a very equal level view of them.

But, in Stan's defense, we see him interacting with the girls way more than Kyle, and I think him having dated Wendy, interacting with her friends, etc etc over the series gives us way more to work with in that area than we get to with the more or less far in between hints we're given with Kyle. One thing that I think may impact this for me is also kind of that the few times we HAVE seen Kyle's attraction to girls play out, putting aside Leslie bc oh boy was Kyle blindly simping there, he doesn't seem to be as quick to focus on like... I guess vaguely sexual aspects like the other boys, which leads to him just seeming to objectify women less (Not to say that being sexually attracted to someone is inherently objectifying, but there is more of an overlap with people who are drawn by looks and engagement in objectifying behavior).

And then there's how Kyle has reacted to being rejected, and I know the big one is Super Hard PCness that everyone likes to point out as Kyle being a "nice guy", but in actuality, he was extremely graceful in how their relationship ended, moreso than he needed to be with the horrible things Heidi said to him, and only flipped out after being bullied and teased and harassed by virtually the whole school, Cartman and Heidi especially. It was definitely not anger purely because he didn't get a girl he liked, it was anger that someone he'd trusted and tried to help so swiftly turned on him and humiliated him for no reason at all, that once again he was being put down by Cartman, and that everyone else treated him poorly as well, Stan included. There's also Rebecca who Kyle just... Kinda let go. Like, we don't really see much of his reaction but there's nothing to tell us Kyle was angry their relationship was broken off, so I'm counting it at least a little. There's Nichole too, who once again we don't really straight up see Kyle's reaction to her breaking up with him. But we do see how he treats her, how much he tries to find stuff they have in common to talk about, how his only anger of their relationship not working is Cartman's blatant racism and lies about him purposely made to sabotage any chances he does get with this girl that he likes. It's not anger towards whatever choice Nichole makes here, it's anger about Cartman's needless and morally egregious interference. I know this is a low bar to pass in whether a character is decent to women, but Kyle just repeatedly not behaving badly over his breakups is a big tell to me. So often we see male characters act like assholes just because a girl doesn't like them or a girl broke up with them or something. Even with Stan, in fact, we've seen this play out. I mean. He's pretty okay too but we did see him tell Wendy she was a bitch for dating someone else. This is from early seasons, that I wouldn't solely use as evidence Stan is a crazy sexist even now, but it plays a part in this conversation on whether or not you can more accurately call Stan Marsh the incel-ish one of the two.

Okay, but like. Why am I even talking so much about Kyle here when you're asking about Stan? Well, I honestly think that the duality of them as characters reinforces the ideas of what the other is like to the audience, and this leads into a LOT of the extremes the fandom will push them into (the fem/masc debate, the nerd/jock debate, etc etc) and likewise it does so here. When we see Kyle being kinda more normal around girls, even though it's rare we see him like that at all, it makes Stan seem all the more awkward when in reality, he kind of isn't that bad at all?? He's pretty normal with girls for a boy his age, though he could be a bit less of a dick sometimes. I do think he sometimes has this huge focus on looks, and that can be... Not great, but it's not to a horrible evil incel-ish degree by any means, and I'd argue for his age he's a pretty good guy to, say, Wendy- Not that he can't improve a LOT but Idk, his shittiness comes off more as "dumb little boy is sometimes a jerk to his friends" to me than "secretly hates and disrespects women".

But y'know, at the end of the day, Kyle and Stan are more alike than people think about many of these things, this being one of them. Whether or not Kyle or Stan are better with how they act to women is hard to say. I can see why people would be able to twist Kyle into being incel-ish even if I don't really personally think it's based accurately on the information we've been given. I can see even moreso how someone might be able to with Stan, and while I do think there's at least a bit more of a leg to stand on him having some issues with internalized sexism, I don't think it's accurate with the information we've been given either. Neither of them are really incel-ish to me.

Honestly, if they were dealing with the issue of not being able to find a partner, they'd probably mostly internalize it into self blame and feel bad about themselves but not really broadly blame other people. Stan might slump into a depression or put his focus elsewhere, Kyle, if wanting a partner badly enough (I don't think it's ever been his first priority and I doubt it ever will be) would make efforts to fix the problem by figuring out what's putting people off about himself and try to figure out how he can fix it rather than lashing out. (Also I already lightly touched on why I don't think Kyle would redo his actions in The List right here over not being able to get a girlfriend lol)

[akkivee]

juto and gentaro have been btching at each other with a smile like this for the entire battle AND DICES FACE LMAO

[burningcomputerpersona]

this is a pretty specific idea and might sound nonsensical to anyone else reading this

but I would kill for alex melton to make a blink 182 cover of green squirrel in pretty bad shape by hot mulligan

idk why this idea has been bouncing around in my head for so long but i feel like he would absolutely crush it