#he did not have to die and thematically should not have died

[the-best-bagel]

ok final verdict tiger and bunny 2 is really good and a huge improvement on the og HOWEVER. lunatic's ending was bizzare rushed depressing and went against everything his arc was pointing to. like it felt like some hayes code contrived bullshit

[myatlantispoets]

the originals/mikaelsons really said "our family bond is a curse it is our biggest strength our parents didn't make us monsters we did it to ourselves we don't have to repeat our parents' mistakes we can break the pattern we're broken and damaged beyond repair loving any of us is a death sentence you've broken my trust more times than i can count i'll be by your side always and forever

[weaselle]

i want to talk about real life villains

Not someone who mugs you, or kills someone while driving drunk, those are just criminals. I mean VILLAINS.

Not like trump or musk, who are... cartoonishly evil. And not sexy villains, not grandiose villains, not even satisfyingly two dimensional villains it is easy to hate unconditionally. The real villains.

I had a client who was a retired executive for one of the big oil companies, i think it was Shell or Chevron. Had a home just outside of San Francisco that was wall to wall floor to ceiling full of expensive art. Literally. I once accidentally knocked a painting off the wall because it was hanging at knee height at the corner of the stairs, and it had a little brass plaque on it, and i looked up the name of the artist and it was Monet's apprentice and son-in-law, who was apparently also a famous painter. He had an original Andy Warhol, which should have been a prize piece for anyone to showcase -- it was hanging in the bathroom. I swear to god this guy was using a Chihuly (famous glass sculptor) as a fruit bowl. And he was like, "idk my wife was the one who liked art"

I was intrigued by this guy, because in the circles i run this dude is The Enemy. right? Wealthy oil executive? But as my client, he was... like a sweet grandpa. A poor widower, a nice old man, anyone who knew him would have called him a sweetheart. He had a slightly bewildered air, a sort of gentle bumbling nature.

And the fact that he was both of these things, a Sweet Little Old Man and The Enemy, at the same time, seemed important and fascinating to me.

He reminded me of some antagonist from fiction, but i couldn't put my finger on who. And when i did it all made sense.

John Hammond.

probably one of the most realistic bad guys ever written.

If you've only ever seen the movie, this will need some explaining.

Michael Crichton wrote Jurassic Park in 1990, and i read it shortly thereafter. In the movie, the dinosaurs are the antagonists, which imo erases 50% of the point of the story.

book spoilers below.

In the book, John Hammond is the villain but it takes the reader like half the book to figure that out. Just like my client, John is a sweet old man who wants lovely things for people. He's a very sympathetic character. But as the book progresses, you start to see something about him.

He has an idea, and he's sure it's a good one. When someone else dies in pursuit of his dream, he doesn't think anything of it. When other people turn out to care about that, he brings in experts to evaluate the safety of his idea, and when they quickly tell him his idea is dangerous and needs to be put on hold, he ignores his own experts that he himself hired, because they are telling him that he is wrong, and he is sure he is right.

In his mind, he's a visionary, and nobody understands his vision. He is surrounded by naysayers. Several things have proven too difficult to do the best and safest way, so he has cut corners and taken shortcuts so he can keep moving forward with his plans, but he's sure it's fine. He refuses to hear any word of caution, because he believes he is being cautious enough, and he knows best, even though he has no background in any of the sciences or professions involved. He sends his own grandchildren out into a life-threatening situation because he is willfully ignorant of the danger he is creating.

THIS is like the real villains of the world. He doesn't want anyone to die. Far from it, he only wants good things for people! He's a sweet old man who loves his grandchildren. But he has money and power and refuses to hear that what he is doing is dangerous for everyone, even his own family.

I think he's possibly one of the most important villains ever written in popular fiction.

In the book, he is killed by a pack of the smallest, cutest, "least dangerous" dinosaurs, because a big part of why we read fiction is to see the villains face thematic justice. But like a cigarette CEO dying of lung cancer, his death does not stop his creation from spreading out into the world to continue to endanger everyone else.

I think it is really important to see and understand this kind of villainy in fiction, so you can recognize it in real life.

Sweetheart of a grandfather. Wanted the best for everyone. Right up until what was best for everyone inconvenienced the pursuit of his own interests.

And my client was like that too. His wife had died, and his dog was now the love of his life, and she was this little old dog with silky hair in a hair cut that left long wispy bits on her lower legs. Certain plant materials were easily entangled in this hair and impossible to get out without pulling her hair which clearly hurt her. When i suggested he ask his groomer to trim her lower leg hair short to avoid this, he refused, saying he really liked her usual hair cut.

I emphasized that she was in pain after every walk due to the plant debris getting caught in her leg hair, and a simple trim could put an end to her daily painful removal of it, and he just frowned like i'd recommended he take a bath in pig shit and said "But she'll be ugly" and refused to talk about it anymore.

Sweet old man though. Everyone loved him.

[goblins-riddles-or-frocks]

If fighting vampire nazis, gore and guns wasn’t the focus of hellsing, what do you think the actual plot/main conflict could have been? I came across a post where you said alucard is wasted potential so … what kind of plot would show his potential? Also, what kind of a character arc do you think he should have had in a better and more thoughtfully plotted hellsing

Well I wouldn’t say the story isn’t thoughtfully plotted out :C

Like yes, it’s an over the top, campy, gorefest that makes no sense, but it succeeds in what it’s trying to do basically. I think it is genuinely, astonishingly good in a few ways. Hirano is fantastic at pacing and using his panels to give the impression he wants— when he bothers. And it’s surprisingly sound when it comes to structure and thematic motifs? The external plot is bonkers, but the way it handles these characters dealing with/being consumed by their pasts, and the way it uses vampirism/monstrosity as a metaphor is really solid.

Hellsing’s main thematic argument is one of comparing monstrosity and humanity, and pitting them against each other.

All the relevant monsters in Hellsing are presented to be unmoored, destructive, and unable to cope with the present in a meaningful way. They are defined by being incapable of moving beyond their pasts, so they seek out as much destruction as they can until they finally find something that can destroy them in turn. (This is consistent throughout the series but most clearly stated in volume 9)

All the monsters presented in Hellsing grapple with the inability to move on. Explicitly, Millennium’s entire raison d’être is bringing about a final “glorious” war they can die in because the modern world has no place for them anymore. They fight with fucking zeppelins. They’re relics.

Seras’ fight with Zorin hinges on a flashback, digging up all the trauma she never confronted. Walter and Alucard’s final battle is entirely about their history, and it has both of them looking like they did during the Dawn era.

Meanwhile, when Anderson uses the Nail of Helena (directly following the unraveling of Iscariot, and the death of Maxwell, who may as well have been his son), that is him refusing to cope. That is what drives him to monstrosity, to self destruction. That’s why he dies.

And Alucard, as the de facto protagonist, has spent the entire plot with the single motive of finding someone worthwhile to defeat him. He has no personal motivations outside of doing whatever Integra/Hellsing tells him to, and just… killing things for the love of the game until he eventually, finally dies. And his past hangs heaviest on the series. The entire present state of the series basically hinges on the shit he did as Dracula. The one thing we know about this guy is that if he could, he would very much like to die while killing things lol.

Anderson is meanwhile his main foil and most strongly represents the past/the siren song of death to him. He’s suspiciously similar in appearance to Van Helsing in the Bela Lugosi movie (despite Van Helsing looking different in the series itself) Meanwhile each encounter with him is immediately followed by a flashback, and then in that final fight Alucard ends up confronting his past human life.

And he almost gives up during that last fight, until Seras (a representation of the present and future) rouses him out of it. That’s his first real choice to move on. But it’s also established that eventually his past is going to catch up to him, and outweigh his future. It’s treated as a foregone conclusion, even if he’s not to that point yet.

So the Schrodinger thing at the end is really interesting. Because bullshit anime logic or not, the point is that he explicitly has to kill every single familiar he’s accumulated over the centuries, in order to exist in the present. Even then he’s “everywhere and nowhere” (lmao. whatever) which basically gives him the option to fizzle out of existence? So the epilogue existing at all, despite my various annoyances with its writing choices, is an interesting culmination of his arc! He chose to come back to his silly little found family when he really didn’t have to! I like that as an arc.

And in any sort of restructure I would want that preserved, even if the entire plot isn’t conveyed through boss battles. Anyway I’ve said for ages that I would want a monster of the week version of the series, so probs something like that.

Something with like the BTVS (or Supernatural lol) classic structure of small fry enemies per episode that culminate in a season arc/big bad. The ideal tonal and stylistic comparison would be X Files, but their overarching narratives famously sucked lol. Anyway I just would’ve liked a procedural vibe like that. I think the implications of Integra taking over the Badrick situation in the first volume is really interesting. And Seras being a police officer who was super not in the know— when higher ranking people are— was something that could’ve been explored in much more depth. I would’ve loved to see her as a recurring character in their like procedural episodes who keeps brushing up against this weird paranormal leaning stuff she doesn’t understand, until she finally gets involved in something that goes wrong and has to be turned into a vampire (ostensibly to save her life… but maybe to keep her quiet)

I also would love more intra organization drama that doesn’t result in immediate blood shed lol. We’re told that Iscariot and Hellsing have clearly mapped out jurisdictions based on majority religion, and treaties and diplomatic relationships, however strained. Maxwell going “fuck your treaties” is apparently a new thing, so like how does that go! What are the repercussions! What brought this on! And like are there any other similar organizations abroad? Are there team ups? I would like there to be team ups.

Meanwhile the existence of the round table implies that… the entire UK government.. is a sham? That they’re actually living in a secret feudal society? I want to know about the families and the politics and the very likely cartoonish degrees of corruption! The original Studio Gonzo show, very poorly, implemented a plotline where Hellsing became too much of a liability and the Queen specifically decided (lol) to have them publicly labeled as a terrorist organization and arrest everyone involved, pretending that they never had any government ties. That was fun! I would like a good version.

Or like it’s set in the 90s, let’s talk about how much harder it’s going to be to keep the supernatural quiet with the rise of technology, and the Internet. Like idk there’s room for a lot! I would basically just love to see a more sprawling version of this story and world.

My main issue with Alucard also is just that he’s so overpowered physically, that it seems like a waste to always put him in fights where he is 100% no question going to win. Putting him on a ship because the plot simply wouldn’t happen if he was there is 😭😭😭 I think we can have some boss battles, gore, and body horror, bc that is fun. But he just needs more restraints. I’d put more focus on him answering to Integra, who in turn answers to the slow moving machine that is bureaucracy, and just not let him do as much, and with severe consequences if he gets too out of line to maintain some stakes. Meanwhile, having a more mystery procedural approach would’ve balanced things out a bit more imo!

[sporeblossom]

logging back onto this website to say that while i dont think (???) it was intentionally done, the scene before their "last day" where frank is working on a portrait of bill, reminded me of keith haring's "unfinished painting"

comparison here before i explain:

keith haring's painting was purposely made to look incomplete. haring was diagnosed with HIV in late 1988, and died in early 1990, at the age of 31. the painting is a self portrait, hitting us with the gut-punch reality of how the aids-epidemic robbed haring of the right to finish his own story. the overwhelming amount of empty space is a glaring reminder that haring didn't just have a short life, he had an incomplete one. the piece points to all that empty space and says: this should have been filled out. this should all have been my art, my story, and my space. by claiming this empty space, haring claimed the empty space of his unlived life, that was taken from him and so many other people, by a negligent and homophobic society that refused to care about the pandemic ravaging an entire community worldwide.

now back to my original point: like i said, im really not sure if this was intentionally done by the show. but when i was watching this episode and i saw this scene, i immediately thought of this painting. the blue color of the eye trailing off onto the blank part of the canvas is, at least to me, a strong visual parallel.

and i feel like this visual parallel highlights some very important thematic parallels as well, which deserve to be talked about. in the show, the outbreak starts in 2003 which means that bill and frank have both lived through the aids-epidemic. they have seen people like them die. they have experienced the hatred and isolation that came with it. you could speculate and read into things ad nauseaum, but i thinks it's safe to say that in this place and time, this also plays into how careful and hesitant they are, when they first start to show intimacy with each other. in their world, they didn't even get to experience the legalization of gay marriage.

seeing as this show takes place during another, fictional, pandemic, airing at a time where the real world has just faced another actual pandemic, it is impossible to ignore this aspect of their story.

these two characters however, are not destroyed by the outbreak in the show. they find each other, they experience freedom, love, and a full life together. their life is not cut short.

in an absurd twist of fate, when the rest of the world is finally forced to experience what it's like to be abandoned by your government during a devastating epidemic, this is when these two people find happiness. they get to go running, and have fights, and grow strawberries, and have friends over for dinner.

and after spending nearly twenty years together, frank spends his last time working not on a self portrait, but on a portrait of bill, the love of his life. this is the sort of thing that rightfully should have filled the empty space of haring's work. finding love(s) spending your time together, that is a life lived.

and yet frank's painting is unfinished, because of course we are never truly done living. we are never truly done loving. but he got so much more time, so much more story, than the people we lost to the aids epidemic, which the trailing off blue paint reminds us of.

at the same time their house is absolute filled with all the paintings that frank did finish, showing us all the good days he got with bill. and in a way, i feel like that is the show being very aware of what it is: a complete, beautiful story about two men loving each other, in a world that sorely lacks these stories. a world where we had so many unfinished, incomplete lives, that we lack an entire generation of older gay men.

and even though i was completely reduced to tears by the end of this episode, the ending still filled me with some sort of mournful joy. because yes, even though it was incredibly sad to see their last day, these two men got to fill so much of their empty space. they got to experience love, and they got to live their life. like bill says: "im old. im satisfied. and you were purpose."

so many people didn't get that. keith haring didn't get that. a whole generation of queer people didn't get that. that makes this episode so much more moving for me, because it is not just an incredibly beautiful love story, but it is an incredibly beautiful love story that the world should rightfully have seen millions more of. but all those lives were incomplete.

so with the undeniable, but unspoken, presence of the aids epidemic in the narrative of these characters, this visual reference to keith haring and aids, purposeful or not, is incredibly meaningful.

[morsking]

there has been a thematic thread linking marisbury's vision for humanity's future to kirschtaria's own desire to elevate humanity and protect the crypters, and morgan's own effort to protect the land of britain that contains the memories she made as aesc alongside the original tam lin and uther. this also reflects in artoria caster's existence post-avalon le fae as a simulacrum of the actual artoria caster that died in the lostbelt, preserved and embodied by artoria avalon so in some way the memory of that girl who remembered only sadness could be embraced by happiness. additionally, meltryllis in SE.RA.PH. breaching time and space to protect fujimaru is also a link in this chain. morgan's summer form, waking up after her spirit origin manifested her memories of being aesc, makes mention of the butterfly's dream: a philosophical thought musing that there is a transient boundary between dreams and reality.

the chinese philosopher chuang tzu once dreamt he was a butterfly, untethered and free to float in the air. he woke up questioning whether he dreamed he was a butterfly, or whether the butterfly was dreaming it was him. reality can feel like a dream, and a dream can feel more real than anything, underscoring how transience is an unavoidable part of the human condition. people will live their dreams and watch them end from the moment they are born to the day they die, and heroic spirits are the same because humanity lives every day chasing its dreams and heroic spirits are those dreams.

but starting with marisbury, we contend with the idea that sometimes, the dreamer does not wish for the dream to end. if dreams are transient because the dreamer must wake, then the only way to preserve the dream is if the dreamer fades away into the dream instead. marisbury seemingly committed suicide to preserve the animusphere grand order. meltryllis burned through the remnants of her existence to protect her memories of her timeline's fujimaru by saving them in their own. kirschtaria, already at death's door, stayed alive only to ensure his ideal and his friends could survive beyond his death, his soul being described as a bird taking flight with caeneus chasing in tow as he dies. morgan sacrificed being aesc so the land of britain could survive, and wiped her own memories of totorot and mash so they wouldn't be erased from existence for being time paradoxes. artoria caster used her entire life force to forge excalibur so the time she treasured could live on with her friends in chaldea as they fought to save proper human history, and themselves, from the rampage of cernunnos's corpse.

on top of all of that, there have been very cryptic visuals associating mash and butterflies since fgo's first opening. "shikisai" had the visual of a butterfly floating in ruins, and "yakudou" has a shot of mash's gaze following a butterfly flying into the sky. the butterfly is her guide, leading the way to the end of her dream. kinoko nasu himself once shared that cosmos in the lostbelt is a story about accepting that ends will come, and thus the butterfly is the lesson that she must take to heart to grow into a person who can claim what the purpose she chose is without shame or hesitation as the end draws near. this is something she did once saving fujimaru from goetia's ars almadel salomonis at the end of observer in timeless temple. and i would not be surprised if she did the same against marisbury at the end of cosmos in the lostbelt (which has yet to finish, as paper moon's trailer demonstrates having it be part of the chapter's title).

but what is the dream she is dreaming that is inevitably coming to an end that she will choose to protect at the cost of her place in it? if you've been reading this far, then the answer should be obvious.

but nasu wouldn't be much of a romantic if he believed an end is all you could really look forward to. the journey is far more important than the destination, because it's the only thing that can give the end meaning, as romani archaman rightly puts in his final conversation with mash. you can only extrapolate the significance of something after it's already over. not at the start, not in the middle of it, and not at when it's over, but at the moment that lies beyond the end of the dream.

and when a dream ends, that is the moment when another begins.

[gold-rhine]

ok as i said repeatedly, my biggest problem with Inazuma rewrite is that I can’t figure out how to make Signora death be good or at least make sense, but I’m realizing its useless to try fitting square peg into a round hole when the perfect option for it already exists. Signora has nothing to do with Inazuma, thematically, narratively or in any sense. She just should not be here at all.

If we have to to write Signora’s death, it should OBVIOUSLY be in Venti’s second story quest set in Mare Jivari, a place referenced in venti’s first quest, “sea of ashes where the wind does not blow.”

she became crimson witch bc she lost loved ones in cataclysm, was angry and disappointed in barbatos for not protecting Mond and those she became powerful enough to do it herself, at the cost of becoming a monster. Before fatui recruited her, she was hunting down demons and never hurt innocents, despite ppl being afraid and ungrateful to her. her first appearance in the game is confrontation with venti. this is her theme.

traveler and venti should be in here with some mond expedition or whatever, diluc should also be there due to Crimson Witch Parallels and also bc there is apparently a phoenix in Mare Jivari and thats thematic for them both. mb signora and venti both trying to get phoenix, idk whats the plot is, the important thing is that signora and venti are confronting each other again and hurling insults, mb there is a boss fight with her

but later like corrupted beasts or whatever attack mond expedition and signora is at first gleeful, she laughs when venti and co are fighting, but then like Uber Lava Dragon or smth shows up and beats venti up and its clear that it will destroy the expedition if not stopped. and there are just normal simple mond ppl there, terrified. and on paper all signora has to do is just let this happen, have her revenge on barbatos, achieve her goal, win and leave

but! she became crimson witch precisely bc of the situation like this! deep down, underneath it all, she is not just a fatui agent, she is a woman who wanted to protect mond when its god failed to do that. so she curses, yells about useless vermin god and steps up to fight the beast.

she defeats him, but is mortally wounded. as she’s dying, venti comes up to her. souls of people who die in Mare Jivari are trapped, because this is the place where the wind does not blow. but today there is a single breeze here.

i never asked for your forgiveness, signora says to venti proudly as he starts glowing with the divine light

i know, he smiles, you don’t need to.

he takes her soul as she dies like he did with stanley’s in his 1st quest, bc barbatos was never a warrior god, he was a bard, an inspiration for ppl to rise up and fight for themselves and then a storyteller to keep the memories of these fighters. and today a story of another protector has joined the fold.

[darkcircles4lyfe]

The Missing Ingredient

Tonight I was casually rereading the chapters that are about to be adapted in the anime when something hit me, and now I have to talk about it ASAP even if it’s not fully fleshed out. You’re getting insomniac-Lin this time, folks.

So. Chapter 304, the one where Izuku finally gets to speak with the vestiges while he’s unconscious in the hospital, has bugged me since the day it came out. I couldn’t articulate it, but something about the way OFA was explained felt like conjecture, or like it was made up on the fly. Idk, it just seemed kinda weak. The detail that I think gets overlooked is that this “lore” is, in fact, conjecture. All Might’s, specifically. It’s his research and logical assumption that led to the conclusion that quirkless people are the only ones able to handle OFA. But we can and should consider the explanation given in 304, that whole business with the overflowing chalices, to be unreliable narration. It is simply a somewhat educated guess.

Like I said, I’ve thought this for a while, but I wasn’t able to get any further with it. Tonight, I went over it again, and I asked myself: other than the fact that All Might was quirkless, what else makes him different from his predecessors? All Might specifically compared himself to the 4th, the one who died of old age, so I did the same. Well… the only other thing about the 4th that stands out is that he spent his life totally alone. This fact is emphasized clearly, and yet, it’s significance is hiding in plain sight: what if the isolation is what killed him?

Thematically, this story has established the dangers and damaging effects of isolation many times, from All Might’s lonely career, to the Todoroki family’s dysfunction, to society’s abandonment of the villains, to Izuku’s misadventures as a solo act. I could go on, but the point is, we are led to see that people become their worst selves when they are alone. Horikoshi has drilled this idea so deeply into the way I analyze bnha that I now look at the 4th and see that he epitomizes the flaw of self-isolation. He kept well hidden and he devoted himself to training, but in the end it wasn’t enough. What is enough? Why is Yagi Toshinori still alive to this day despite the fate Night Eye saw for him? Unless you believe he’s still bound to die, which I don’t, then there’s one simple reason: Izuku. It wasn’t only All Might who changed Izuku’s life, but also the other way around. Because of Izuku, Toshinori gradually regained his sense of purpose and drive, his very will to keep living even when “All Might” was long gone. Because of their bond, he is given the gift of a life beyond passing the torch of OFA. That in itself is something no previous OFA user has ever had before. THAT, if you ask me, is what sets him apart. So what does that say about OFA?

Let’s backtrack for a second. Chapter 304 also directly states that OFA drastically changed about four months prior:

I think we can accept this as reality because it’s just an observation, BUT. What’s odd is it’s left without a “why.” As in, why did it change? Was it simply the “right time?” Was there a trigger? Was it a milestone of Izuku’s strength? No definitive explanation is offered. I decided to look back on “four months ago” and see if I could pick up on anything. Of course it’s referring to when Izuku first had a vision of his predecessors in a dream, and when he unlocked blackwhip—but again, no one knew “why now?” I found that the progress made in this arc is actually nicely summarized in chapter 257:

Here we see that Izuku finally feels like he has a place in the world and a true connection with people he cares about, specifically with Toshinori and Katsuki. Incidentally, this is also the chapter where we learn that the previous OFA users all died young, and it ends with Toshinori talking about what it means for him to keep living. It’s no longer about “helping” in the way he used to as a hero, but just being there for others as a person. So the growth of OFA coincides with Izuku’s developing relationships.

The logical assumption that I’m now going to make is that Toshi’s consciousness in the OFA realm exists because of the connection he forged with Izuku. His fire-y spectral presence is not a vestige at all, not even remotely the same thing as the other previous users, which are only there because of their quirk factors. They are more like memories of people, whereas Toshi’s is a manifestation of a living soul. Still, we would be led to assume it only forms within OFA because Toshinori himself once had the quirk. However…

Katsuki is involved now too. And I don’t think we can claim he is a previous OFA user since Heroes Rising is only loosely canon and the transfer was never completed anyway. Rather, like Toshinori, Katsuki is a deeply important person in Izuku’s life, and that apparently is enough. Since Toshinori normally has a slight psychic connection to his OFA manifestation, my guess is Katsuki also had this vague sort of sense, and maybe a ghostly manifestation of his own, but in his current near-death state, that signal is strengthened to the point where he is fully aware and present inside OFA. As for the reason he’s in a separate setting to the vestiges, and Toshinori’s manifestation is also there, it’s like a Venn diagram. The previous users are in one place, living people closest to Izuku are in another, and Ghost Toshi can go between them because he is both, the overlap of the Venn diagram. Regardless of these technical details though, I think the clues point to the idea that OFA grows from and is meant to be used by someone who is interdependent and has supportive relationships, while isolation causes it to behave like a parasite. The concept also lends itself well to OFA affecting/providing power to others, namely Katsuki, if one is so inclined to those theories. Where I’m at right now, I just think OFA and its wielder have finally gained something they’ve been missing all along. But Izuku still has to fully embrace that.

[pinkeoni]

Arguing for realism in Stranger Things

So whenever the take "Mike and Will can't be together because it's not realistic" comes up, usually from twitter or reddit, I often find it met with the argument on here of "Well, this is a supernatural show about monsters so who cares about realism!" or something similar along those lines.

While I understand the the sentiment behind it, and yes advocating for realism in a sci-fi fantasy show may seem silly, but I find this argument to be kind of flawed.

The initial take isn't coming a genuine advocacy for realism, but instead using "realism" as a flimsy cover for their homophobia. The more appropriate response should be to question why they believe a happy resolve for homosexuality is unrealistic in the first place. You countering their argument by claiming that the show is unrealistic is only backing up their belief that a happy ending for gay people is also unrealistic.

Stranger Things is a realistic show.

And, okay, ST does not fall into the same category of cinéma-vérité-dogme-95-esque-hyper-realism that a show like Succession may fall under, but it does try to capture real emotions and real experiences using supernatural elements as a vehicle to explore such things. Sure, alternate dimensions and tentacle monsters are not realistic, but the American government trying to coverup and undermine the suffering of queer people, as well as the constant fear of an encroaching foreign power, is incredibly realistic to that time period.

It's not often caught on from the casual viewer because it's carefully placed under layers of subtext, although in the show's defense for some of these viewers the Reagan/Bush signs from season 2 are purely just set pieces and don't have any further meaning. But the supernatural elements are not arbitrarily placed and the show doesn't take place in the 80's simply for the nostalgia factor, these facets all work together to speak to real experiences.

And sure, sometimes even the non-supernatural elements can come off as exaggerated, such as the Russian storyline, but one could argue that this is a dramatization of very real Cold War anxieties that did exist at this time.

So, when it comes to displaying realistic emotions, why should the way the show handles queer identity and relationships be any different?

And the show does handle queerness in an almost tragically realistic way. The show’s queer characters must adhere to the precedents of the 1980’s, and the supernatural element is one way to exemplify some of those fears. Will lives in fear of something slowly taking over and killing his body, while the Reagan Administration government scientists treat his possible death as a non-issue.

If then, the show is realistic and aiming to portray queer experiences as such, does this mean that byler can’t happen because that would be unrealistic?

Well, I think that people might he conflating “realism” with “pessimism.” I think if the show wanted to have an ending with a pessimistic outlook, then I could see byler not happening. Yes, there are plenty of gay people who died during the 80’s. But there also plenty of gay people who got in relationships and lived too. What people consider realistic may also be influenced by the type of media they have consumed in the past as well. “Well, gay people usually die/end up alone, so that must be what the realistic outcome is.”

So, with all that being said, when considering the ending of the show, it now just comes down to everything else. What is the show trying to say thematically? How has the show handled other character’s storylines in the past? How is the show being written? What kind of ending is being foreshadowed? What type of ending would best serve to fulfill the needs of the themes and storybeats, while still maintaining relatability?

[janiedean]

i have seen people claim that the situation with brienne will be the thing that pushes jaime back to cersei. also I have seen people compare what brienne is going through with stoneheart to what jaime went through with aerys and saying brienne may need to put her down

I am the second people and not the first people but like….

I don’t wanna sound rude or anything but with this fandom I feel like no one grasps the point of occam’s razor like sorry but

- jaime spends affc getting progressively away from cers and burns her letter at the end when in agot he’d have dropped everything to run there

- jaime in adwd barely thinks about her and goes like eh ig i’ll have to see her again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and runs off with brienne

- as i am people 2… listen brienne is having the EXACT same aerys situation except worse because like aerys always was a pos and jaime hated him for two years and never gaf about him beyond he’s the king, cat was literally the first woman to treat brienne properly and like a human being and like she RESPECTED her and trusting her with being her liege lady and gave her her first knight job so to speak, also cat was a generally nice person (OVERALL the jon thing doesn’t count but to brienne cat was a good thing) and became a zombie after being horrifically murdered like….. sorry but brienne having to murder her former liege lady gone mad out of grief because she’s out of control and is killing innocents when she cares about cat and knows she was a good person before is like…. kind of hitting worse than killing a guy whom you’ve hated for two years and gave you trauma you know

- also like everyone is conveniently glossing over the fact that brienne would have rather died than killed jaime on cat’s orders and only agreed to it bc she didnt wanna drag two innocent ppl in it but like sorry i think the above + your crazy liege lady wanting to kill the man you love who is also fulfilling a vow to HER together with you is a mindfuck

- also everyone conveniently glosses over the fact that what fucked jaime for good was people not even asking why he killed aerys and deciding he was a pos not the actual killing

- so like…… let’s say jaime from adwd with all the char development finds out that brienne almost died for him (if someone from the brotherhood doesn’t tell him she screamed his name at night i’ll be surprised) and sees her kill cat in front of him BECAUSE she doesn’t want him to die and only dragged him there to save two innocent people

- that’s a jaime who has OBVIOUSLY done some self reflection in the last two books and actually sounded his age in the povs or at least not like he was stuck at 17

- at this point he either could see brienne going through the aeryslike ordeal that HE went through (and is therefore in a position to help her that NO ONE ELSE HAS bc HE knows how it feels that’s it), he’d know that it was for HIM (doubt he has a line of ppl around who are willing to die for him and go as far as almost getting hanged) and he’d see it happen to someone he considers a true knight and HIS protector (like i can go off on that for a year but nvm it now). he’s this close to figure out he wants her to make a honest man out of him…. and THAT could tip him off, AND he could help her not turn into a bitter cynic the way he did, and they could get closer and he could see that the person who saved his ass and looked out for him when they didnt even like each other actually WENT THROUGH IT for him so much she WENT AGAINST HER VOWS when it was the most important thing in the world to her AND at that point they could figure out together that vows should be taken sparsely and meaningfully AND they could fulfill theirs to cat together in her memory…..

- or he can get pissed off and go back to cersei when like he DIDNT fuck off when everyone he’s known for his entire life failed him and that was never enough to make him say well fuck you i’m not coming back until he learned cers cheated on him

like………… if thematically the first one doesn’t seem to people like the most sensed outcome of everything jaime has done since now and of his arc so far okay but then idk what to tell them because at this point is shooting at the red cross as we say here

and anyway without going into that whole bullshit: at the last adwd chapter when cers and kevan talk and she asks where jaime is and dismisses that he’d ever go with brienne over her…. she says he’s been missing for WEEKS and the riverlands aren’t the wall, if he wanted to go back to cers after brienne’s supposed betrayal he’d have been back in camp already and if he had been dead people would have known at that point so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if people want to do the math without counting that stuff in their prerogative but like idg the point of denying the obvious at this rate

[bardinthezone]

okay my mind is reeling from the latest episode i'm going to fucking explode this is one of the best episodes... period

so cecil's dad... left when cecil was born. For what reason, it's hard to tell. The narrative certainly seems to be setting it up as a concious choice, framing him as an absent father rather than just a dead one. The line "It’s not incomprehensible that two living, physical people could haunt each other." makes me really think the Gershwin-Palmer relationship was not a healthy one in any way.

But either way, he left, and maybe he died after he left, or maybe he left because he died.

But he's gone, and it broke their mother. She mourned him, she was forever haunted by him, haunted by the him she saw in Cecil. It completely ruined any semblance of relationship she had with her kids. As Cecil tells us in 182 (It Sticks With You), "Our mother wouldn’t speak to us. She would just walk and walk, much faster than we could. I think she wanted to lose us in the shadowy labyrinth of tall trees. [...] we always found our mom. She was at the same old tree, leaving flowers at the base of its giant trunk. And we would hike home. I don’t remember who the flowers were for. Maybe she never said."

That's as plain as it gets. She abandoned them, consumed in her grief and her anger. And, as we learn in Ghost Stories, she never recovered.

There's also the oracle element, however. And the Mirrors. That's weird, right? The prophecy that Cecil would die, and it would involve a mirror? Is this real? Is this an element of her mental deterioration? I can't say for certain. I hope it's not, I don't want cecil to die by murder.

And the trees. God, the trees. The trees are fucking everywhere and this isn't necessarily an unanswered question, more of a thematic element I want to draw more attention to.

Cause we have all the drawings of trees in 245, and we have 182.

But then there's episode 132, "Bedtime Story."

And this is a DOOZY. This is a story Cecil's mother used to tell him (Not Abby?) meaning that:

there were times she did managed to be somewhat motherly, although perhaps this was influenced by her weird oracular relationship with him

she told him. A bedtime story. About a little boy who felt neglected by his family, so he went out and dug into the mud and turned into A TREE.

I just want you to really take that in. This little boy felt neglected by his family, so he turned into a tree and eventually grew to abandon his humanity to the point where he could no longer recognize or comprehend the passing of his own family.

"And then my mother would pat my head and say: "Good night, Cecil. Good night." Or so I imagined. By then, I was long asleep." Cecil's mom... probably didn't do that. But he imagined she did.

I've lost the spoons to write out a shitton of analysis but I haven't seen anyone bring up Bedtime Story in reference to ep 246 and I think they really should

Also something something "What would be worse than death? Living long enough to stop being a human" "Oh Cecil is... way older than he knows isn't he...."

[semi-imaginary-place]

metaphor re fanfasio live playthrough thoughts. spoilers

oh we going post modern meta narrative. I wonder what's up with more.

one race means there's harmony and no discrimination or conflict. Wow this is a fantasy story.

why did we need to go to the capital to get recruited into the guard to get deployed to where grius was why not just go directly to grius. Also this assassination plot sounds bad it's one dude with a knife. rip grius.

Well the demo is excellent in every way but that doesn't mean the rest of the game is good. Ffxvi.... I remember

If there isn't a cat/dog boy party member i'll riot.

The big face rock is the wildest government system.

Instead of just the sanctoress for the contest why not also bring the human corpse.

Going onto the deck of a rolling ship feels stupid what are you two even doing

All the characters are great so far but I'm falling in love with fidelio. Tsundere tiny big brother. He has puppy ears.

copied smtiv's homework, joking of course post apocalyptic modern past fantasy present is a common enough story premise. Whats the list at now for what this game is a fusion of: persona 5, etrian odyssey, smtiv (arguably v too).

How literal is that "hearts the source of magla" thing and how literal are the mechanical hearts. I wouldnt put it past the devs for everyone to be a robot.

something is happening with the parapus brothers. they are springing far too many flags and i got spoiled that basilio is a party member. if fidelio dies i'm quitting he's my favorite.

Louis is wayyy to important narratively to die this early. Probably. Uh the theater audience cant see the roof well. If eupha recalls the lance they'll know someone took it but not who. If you're going to give forden the lance anyways i dont see why bother appearing on stage. didnt do that good of a job telling how evil louis was could have given a better speech. SHOULD HAVE CHECKED LOUIS WAS DEAD YOURSELVES. Also that hooded guy is so sus. Forden think they're working for him but they also reported to louis about the party's actions. Uh also you lot never confirmed louis was the curse caster like could have confronted him during the fight. Like you all just vigilante killed the wrong man. Maybe.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Well rella puppet or not, and louis both seem better rulers than forden so I'm happy about him dying. forden law route vibes.

woah hulkenburg ready to kill. we really are just killing people willy nilly on the slightest suspicions. that's 3 asassination attempts and 2 of them were the wrong person.

there are so many sus things about the mc. like why doesnt russell know him. wouldnt be surprised if he and the prince were two halves of the same person. why does the prince have no name and there was that name input at the begining of the game. something up.

oh wait that's real, i was also thinking like twinsies or something. his humansona! his self insert character! I'm laughing so hard right now. this is really good thematically but i can't stop laughing

wow he really is just griffith. he's cosplaying a clemar. and louis chose to have bigger than average horns.

Havent been commenting too much because it's too good. One thing that bothers me is the timeline and prince's assassination attempt which happened like 12? Years ago. Rella and louis were said to be unusually young and i guess this is a jrpg but having like a 16 year old general feels a bit much. And if hulkenberg was a royal knight presumably she had some accomplishments and experience already before being promoted. Fidelio was already a trusted aide of louis (presumably with military accomplishments) before the assassination attempt. Anyways it just feels like the timeline is very tight and a number of people were in rather veteran positions despite being rather young. I suppose it's plausible much of the cast is in their early 30s. Fidelio's appearence is nonindicative of his age but a lot of the cast though feel 20s like stohl feels young, first venture as an adult and all. An easier solution really would have been to make the assassination attempt not that long ago say 6 years instead.

So not only is zorba gay he's also trans. Ok. Slay king choose your form.

louis chaos hero for real. Louis rizz off the charts.

He really is just lucifer now. Louis cyphre moment. Louis chaos route vs thorden law route. Bruh his magical girl transformation was just stripping. The only thing about this fight is that the music could have gone harder

There are so many shibuyas in this game. Because its already established that the modern world in in the past and this is post apocalyptic. Then there's more's book which i initially assumed was a nod to irl (like in kingdom hearts) but then was revealed to maybe be historically based. Now he's saying the game isn't real, should have used video footage like Eva rebuild did. We're fighting against the author. Who's also our dad while our mom supporting us. Dad's oc vs son's oc. outer space fight is cool but in the middle of shibuya like the yozora fight also would have been cool.

Ah there's the 2nd phase was kinda hoping for one. I wonder why both joy and mirth are there. Crucified hanging puppets that he's eating, 1 each to represent the tribes. (Which speaking of why dont the fairies count unless their origins are in pure magla like dragons instead of being mutated ancient humans like the tribes.)

Someone pointed out that if louis hadn't nullified the king's assassin magic he would have won the popularity contest

Yeeeaaaahhh... statesmanship.... you have 0 management or large scale leadership experience. 0 policy nothing concrete all vibes I would not have voted for him. Ah and there's the porkbarelling neopotism favoritism political appointments. Also his face was on a giant rock for months how does no one know it.

excellent game. good enough that i don't have many complaints which is why this is short i always right more when i have something to complain about. I ended up really liking all the parapus characters like catherina is so good hell yeah community organizing! she's actually doing the work.

[yume-fanfare]

mitsuba's deaths and almost deaths: my ranking!

he has died 3 times in canon, and has had some other close calls in both canon and aus, so it's ranking time! this will of course contain several spoilers under the cut!

CANON DEATHS

number 3: his severance death

this one has a LOT of potential! it had been a while since his last death! he broke into pieces right in front of kou, and just as he was having the most peaceful cutest sleep! was vanishing physically painful? who was more emotionally hurt by it, kou or mitsuba? how did it feel Falling Apart into pieces later? i need to know! but unfortunately we haven't yet gotten an actual severance chapter from their pov, only vague flashbacks. we don't even quite know what natsuhiko told kou and it's haunting me. can we go back to the kou becoming a supernatural plotline please. but anyways yeah this is why it is the worst (in terms of thematic importance and story focus) death to me. need those extra details

number 2: his first death

car accident. when he was buying potatoes. on his mom's birthday. when curry doesn't even actually need potatoes. need i say more. there's even the extra irony in the fact that kou's earring, which he so hates, says "traffic safety" in it. it's simply so perfect. it aligns so well. it's an everyday tragedy, yet it somehow is the cause behind the plot of the entire manga. has led to some of the most heartbreaking official art. like the one where baby kou is holdin g an empty uniform whose owner has vanished into a pile of flower petals. fucked up.

number 1: the death of m1tsuba

PERFECT. SHOWSTOPPING. HE DIED IN KOU'S ARMS!!!

the scene that actually got me Invested in this manga. ive watched it around three hundred times, in the anime, the manga and the musical and it can still bring me to tears. while death number 2 hangs heavier, this one ranks higher for me because it is. a cataclysm. this event seriously changed the trajectory of kou's life forever. HAS THE "this... this isn't you, mitsuba! the mitsuba i know i-is... sassy. girly. sarcastic. selfish. and... and his voice was annoying. obsessed with cameras. went emo sometimes and was only fake-nice. and... and he was my friend!" LINE AND and it cut to the shot of their first meeting as first years but with mitsuba getting up and leaving and! man. it is so good. i wouldn't change a single detail. something important to me... maybe

ALMOST DEATHS (CANON AND NON-CANON)

only the ones i remember off the top of my head and wanted to talk about sowwy

if you have not read any of the aus i mentioned you Definitely should check them out they are SO good!

honorary mention: the times he's (almost) been turned into a mokke

didn't know whether to count this one but i really like it it's so funny. his pyon pyon pink bunny era. the most mokke-coded character. i did cringe a little in that christmas event where his gift was being turned into a mokke because come on. horrors for him again? on christmas? but no one had that great of a time then so ill forgive it

number 5: his transformation into a familiar in hanako-kun of magic

he didn't die at all in this one, yes, but it's supposed to parallel his becoming a supernatural, so it's going into the ranking. it was kind of lame though 😭 ik it was public voting yadda yadda but like it only happened like that to fill aidairo's monthly quota of bad things happening to mitsuba. the alicorn concept and clothes were cute though ill give them that. can we get a colored front-facing ref

number 4: his almost-death in chapter 98

it sucked so bad. like ok. when i was reading the chapter i was not surprised by it at all. this is a horror manga so something bad Had to happen, and like hell he was actually going to die Again in that moment. and it was executed in a really cool way! kou's single page that only had a "SQUELCH" speech bubble was bone-chilling and there is almost a eurydice flavor to the whole fleeing and turning around to see the ghost of the person you love and finding that you're holding Only their hand.

but as much as ive joked about this manga inventing a new level of bury your gays, there Are some unfortunate implications to two boys having a cute date and then immediately almost-killing one off them. (this could indeed also be applied to mitsuba's death in a way too). im usually not too harsh w this stuff because even if the implications are there i have faith that this wasn't quite meant like that.

but ultimately this scene was there only for shock value to end the chapter in a cliffhanger so! not ranked very high

number 4: his afterlife as a mummy in the ghost hotel café

ok we barely have anything on his death here so it's not too high but just those four lines are so funny. guy who owns the land but is too scared to act out on it. is secretly planning on taking over the hotel. has cried when kou bit him. is his pastissier apprentice. i hope he's better at baking than mit2uba is at cooking. the idea of them having a silly afterlife baking together and chasing after each other is so funny i love them

number 3: his youkai transformation in the bakeneko ryokan hanakotei

his most recent almost-death! we don't know much about it yet but it is such a cute concept!!! he turned into a kitty youkai and now works at the hot springs! it's just like spirited away!!!! super invested on this one i want more so badly

number 2: the time he got poisoned in hanako of the opera

chef's kiss! this one is Almost perfect, if only because the number 1 spot is my favorite scene in any manga ever. mitsuba drinks poisoned peach juice and thanks to the subsequent investigation and hanako's intervention, he is able to escape from the oppressive opera environment with kou! but here is the catch: every night, natsuhiko left a glass of juice for him, and mitsuba never once drank it. what changed this time? why did he drink it? well, the one who left the juice and poisoned him was not natsuhiko, but kou. did mitsuba know? kou. poisoned mitsuba, who in this au is his Childhood Friend. to see if, by taking him out of the opera, he'd be able to help him regain his love of music. and mitsuba willingly drank the poison. probably knowingly. he trusted kou not to kill him. and then they elope. there are sooo many levels to this one i love it

number 1: chapter 48, picture perfect arc

EVERYONE GIVE IT UP FOR THE BEST ROMANCE EVER!!! SHOWSTOPPING!!!! BREATHTAKING!!! NO ONE DOES IT LIKE THEM!!!

it's so perfect. the way the the page where kou jumps off the building is angled and composed so that the panels themselves are falling with them too. kou's promise. the way he literally jumped off a building just to have a chance to understand mitsuba better. and then they'd work their way back to life together! it gets me every time. no one does it like them. i love them so much. <333

and that is all, thanks for sticking by!

but how about YOU guys? what is Your favorite mitsuba death? how would you change my ranking? im always up for talking about mitsuba!

[novastardoughnut]

okay but we need to talk about this most recent Secret Life

SO... A lot just happened and I think we need to talk about it so SPOILERS:

SO... Lets talk about that Episode huh?

Jimmy didn't die first (we all knew this day would come, we all knew one day that Jimmy wouldn't be the first out because what is the statistical probability of being out first 5 times over). so what do we make of this event... well I think Lizzie dying first is another way for the watchers to get emotional reactions from the players. Now the canary still died lets not forget this, and he was the next one out, indeed the curse was broken BUUUT another part of the canary curse that is often forgotten in the rubble is that his death marks the start for the rest of the series going into that red violence/red madness era. it marks the start of the endgame. (and with Mumbo's right after we may even see a new curse arise). its a very funny thematic event to occur being that everyone throughout the whole episode was joking about Jimmy going out first again, they even held a pre-emptive funeral for him.

now already with this seasons a lot of parallels are being drawn to Last Life (we got Lizzie and Mumbo back, Mumbo made puns on his first episode back, a lot of AHA references this season etc) and now we have yet another one... THE WITHER!

now lets look at the big dogs for a moment, because indeed Mumbo did kind of join them this session, got a box of bones and everything for it. this is now a team consisting of Martyn, Jimmy and Mumbo. this team is very close to the Southlanders (it may be missing impulse and Grian but its close enough). now what happened. They spawned a WITHER (that had only ever been spawned before in Last Life) and both DIED to it one after another. (just like how they both died back to back in LL) leaving Martyn AGAIN the sole Member of his group.

in addition this time with the Wither it very much lived up to the nigh apocalyptic scenario that this situation should have been in that previous season. however with Bdubs (with his bravery) and Etho were more than capable of taking on the wither. The wither died in LL with relitively little pomp and circumstance, however in Secret Life where every heart counts, its effect becomes way more devistating on the server. last time there were a few explosions but nothing too bad, this time returning to the surface the floor devastated with explosion holes, craters and destruction. the nice walkable paths are rubble underfoot.

and yeah Martyn is yet again alone, his curse stands strong. he consistently died before Jimmy but in that moment he survived yet again to see his friends killed.

[luckydicekirby]

erin hasn’t read jade legacy yet and i have 700 pages worth of Opinions about it and you can’t put stuff under a cut in tweets so i am finally returning to “posting on tumblr”

this book did not fully work for me! and i am really chewing on why. I enjoyed reading it, and it made me cry several times, but it felt structurally disconnected and didn’t really come together for me like, Thematically. the ending was just kind of eh. points for ending on bero and the twice lucky, because i’m a simple woman i love a good bookend, but it feels really weird that the end was basically like “well, we won bc our family likes each other and the mountain all hates each other” guys your family is a nightmare!!!!!!!! 

on some level I think I had expectations the book ultimately wasn’t interested in fulfilling so I’m not a super fair judge--my called shot for this book was that niko was going to kill hilo for murdering his mom, or that at least that was going to be a major point of contention between them. at a certain point it became obvious this was not the direction we were going in, which is fine, but eyni’s murder was SUCH a great momentous “oh shit” moment in jade war and I feel like we never fully followed up on it--it makes perfect sense that hilo would see it as necessary and like it was the right thing to do, because he’s a freak and he sucks (affectionate), but we barely get to see niko react to it as an adult. like I really thought we were going to get a moment in jade legacy that was like, hey hilo, turns out you cannot just kill your nephew’s mom and kidnap him as a toddler without consequences, but I guess......you can? i feel like we missed out on sooo much meaty crunchy stuff in this vein.

also this should have been at least two or three books. I was excited about the time skips, because I wanted to see the kids as adults, but a lot of specific moments had to get skimmed over to fit everything in, and the kids kind of got the shaft as far as characterization--we get the most interesting character stuff with niko, and he barely has any POV! I liked what we got of Ru (and his death made me cry like a baby), but jaya was cool but completely flat. my mind palace ideal structure is like. one book still centered on the adults while the kids are growing up, and then one book centered on the adult kids where we actually get to dig deep into their character stuff/their relationships with each other. 

anyway, stray thoughts:

making anden and lott narrative foils but then not having them get together honestly kind of a power move. i kind of respect it. my read is that lott is gay but decided he would never be able to be out and be the horn, and stuck to that. which WOULD sure make him feel real weird about anden!

shae/ayt mada real and no one can convince me otherwise. they both tried to kill each other they both saved each other’s lives that is romance baybee

i did really enjoy the continuing bero throughline/his ultimate insignificance, and inability to even MAKE himself significant by confessing to lan’s murder to niko. that scene was so good. 

it feels like all the interesting thematic stuff in this book was coming together in the wake of Ru’s death, and then it all had to get dropped bc we were once again at like, “uh oh mountain’s gonna take over”. like no go back i want to talk more about senseless death and about how vital it is to die for a cause as a green bone but ultimately lan’s death was also a senseless accident and hilo HAS ALWAYS KNOWN THAT AND ALWAYS LIED ABOUT IT AND THAT’S THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE WAR!!! CAN WE TALK ABOUT THAT!!

2 black 2 green made me lose it. 

anyway i AM staring at my hands like is it just that i’m a slut for tragedy and wanted a worse ending to this book where like five major characters died....am EYE the problem for wanting this family to be irrevocably broken...am i too successionpilled.....

[sokkastyles]

Galaxy bra1n on Tumblr What do you think about this post? I just happened upon it honestly, and it just... made me squirm tbh. I just don't like it. But I'm not sure how to put it into words, so I'd really like to know your thoughts on it if it's not too much of a bother ofc. I don't mean any offense to the OP too, it's just that this take rubs me the wrong way. Really love your blog!

Yeah lol this take is weird for a few reasons. First of all if you don't mind the ship idk why you care about what is a "good" reason to ship them. Characters can and have been shipped together because they looked at each other once and for no reason at all, and that's perfectly fine because like, who cares?

Second, I am so tired of people blaming Zuko for Azula shooting lightning at Katara. Zuko wasn't goading Azula out of stupidity or pride, he was trying to end the fight quickly without involving anyone else using a move he knew Azula had no defense against that he had used once before against his father, to quickly end a fight without violence. He did not think Azula would go for Katara because that is against the rules - that Azula set, because she challenged Zuko - of an agni kai. You could MAYBE say that Zuko should have anticipated that Azula would cheat, but that's always been their dynamic. Zuko is always too honorable and Azula is always lying and cheating. What has changed is that she's no longer able to manipulate Zuko and is revealed to be the lying cheater that she always was, but that still doesn't mean he could have anticipated her aiming at Katara, who had to be exactly in the right place at the right time.

As far as him "doing the bare minimum"...I mean, I do think he would have done it regardless of who it was who was in danger and his relationship to them, but that's not a reason to diminish what he did, either. It takes incredible fortitude to put yourself in harm's way for another person, and fast reflexes to get there in time. Katara herself is frozen to the spot, which is a natural reaction to danger, but if Zuko had done that or not reacted fast enough or even been slightly off, she or he would have died instantly. So let's not belittle what Zuko did in sacrificing his own life to save someone else in an incredible act of selflessness, compassion, and heroism just because we don't like a ship.

Third, these takes always miss WHY it's seen as a shippy moment. It's not only the culmination of a specific narrative arc between the three of them, the thematic motif of Zuko being positioned between what Azula and Katara represent to him, respectively, the choice between selfishness and selflessness, hate and love, cruelty and forgiveness - which alone are pretty damn good reasons to ship them. But not only that, it's the strong emotions that are created from that act. I don't think Zuko jumped in front of the lightning because he loved her. But you can't help but love someone after that, after giving your whole being to another person in that moment. And Katara does the same thing for Zuko. Sure, you could argue that she would have done it anyway, her morals wouldn't allow her to let him die, but the act itself still remains, with all its meaning, and the emotion behind it.

And the narrative goes out of its way to tell us that this is impossible! That a failure to redirect lightning correctly will result in perma-death. That Katara's powers of healing alone weren't enough to bring someone back from that precipice without spirit water. But they do it anyway. They save each other, through sheer force of will, and they can't not be tied to each other after that.

If that's not a good enough reason to ship, I don't know what is. Which doesn't mean you have to, of course. You are free to not vibe with a ship, regardless of the reasoning behind it. But don't tell me it's not a damned good reason.