#anti-cersei lannister

[janiedean]

i have seen people claim that the situation with brienne will be the thing that pushes jaime back to cersei. also I have seen people compare what brienne is going through with stoneheart to what jaime went through with aerys and saying brienne may need to put her down

I am the second people and not the first people but like….

I don’t wanna sound rude or anything but with this fandom I feel like no one grasps the point of occam’s razor like sorry but

- jaime spends affc getting progressively away from cers and burns her letter at the end when in agot he’d have dropped everything to run there

- jaime in adwd barely thinks about her and goes like eh ig i’ll have to see her again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and runs off with brienne

- as i am people 2… listen brienne is having the EXACT same aerys situation except worse because like aerys always was a pos and jaime hated him for two years and never gaf about him beyond he’s the king, cat was literally the first woman to treat brienne properly and like a human being and like she RESPECTED her and trusting her with being her liege lady and gave her her first knight job so to speak, also cat was a generally nice person (OVERALL the jon thing doesn’t count but to brienne cat was a good thing) and became a zombie after being horrifically murdered like….. sorry but brienne having to murder her former liege lady gone mad out of grief because she’s out of control and is killing innocents when she cares about cat and knows she was a good person before is like…. kind of hitting worse than killing a guy whom you’ve hated for two years and gave you trauma you know

- also like everyone is conveniently glossing over the fact that brienne would have rather died than killed jaime on cat’s orders and only agreed to it bc she didnt wanna drag two innocent ppl in it but like sorry i think the above + your crazy liege lady wanting to kill the man you love who is also fulfilling a vow to HER together with you is a mindfuck

- also everyone conveniently glosses over the fact that what fucked jaime for good was people not even asking why he killed aerys and deciding he was a pos not the actual killing

- so like…… let’s say jaime from adwd with all the char development finds out that brienne almost died for him (if someone from the brotherhood doesn’t tell him she screamed his name at night i’ll be surprised) and sees her kill cat in front of him BECAUSE she doesn’t want him to die and only dragged him there to save two innocent people

- that’s a jaime who has OBVIOUSLY done some self reflection in the last two books and actually sounded his age in the povs or at least not like he was stuck at 17

- at this point he either could see brienne going through the aeryslike ordeal that HE went through (and is therefore in a position to help her that NO ONE ELSE HAS bc HE knows how it feels that’s it), he’d know that it was for HIM (doubt he has a line of ppl around who are willing to die for him and go as far as almost getting hanged) and he’d see it happen to someone he considers a true knight and HIS protector (like i can go off on that for a year but nvm it now). he’s this close to figure out he wants her to make a honest man out of him…. and THAT could tip him off, AND he could help her not turn into a bitter cynic the way he did, and they could get closer and he could see that the person who saved his ass and looked out for him when they didnt even like each other actually WENT THROUGH IT for him so much she WENT AGAINST HER VOWS when it was the most important thing in the world to her AND at that point they could figure out together that vows should be taken sparsely and meaningfully AND they could fulfill theirs to cat together in her memory…..

- or he can get pissed off and go back to cersei when like he DIDNT fuck off when everyone he’s known for his entire life failed him and that was never enough to make him say well fuck you i’m not coming back until he learned cers cheated on him

like………… if thematically the first one doesn’t seem to people like the most sensed outcome of everything jaime has done since now and of his arc so far okay but then idk what to tell them because at this point is shooting at the red cross as we say here

and anyway without going into that whole bullshit: at the last adwd chapter when cers and kevan talk and she asks where jaime is and dismisses that he’d ever go with brienne over her…. she says he’s been missing for WEEKS and the riverlands aren’t the wall, if he wanted to go back to cers after brienne’s supposed betrayal he’d have been back in camp already and if he had been dead people would have known at that point so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if people want to do the math without counting that stuff in their prerogative but like idg the point of denying the obvious at this rate

[norringtondeservestheworld]

"It's bloody hot in here"

We are in 2024 and I still see (stupid) people claiming that Braime shouldn't have happened because it was "awkward" and they use as argument Jaime saying to Brienne "It's bloody hot in here" making memes of how Jaime looks like a stupid teenager at the first crush and how his flirting sucks.

But the thing is that.. his flirting IS SUPPOSED to sucks. Jaime Lannister is a 40+ years old man who has been all his life in an abusive and incestual relationship with his sister who manipulated him since they were kids and used sex to have something from him in return and because of that he never slept with another woman because he never felt attraction for another woman.. until now. Brienne is the first woman he sexually and romantically desired outside his sister so IT'S HIS FIRST TIME TRYING TO SEDUCE A WOMAN.

Just look at him. The awkward smile, the eyes constantly moving. HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING. HE IS SO NERVOUS HE CAN'T EVEN UNDRESS HIMSELF.

And Brienne is as awkward as him. She is a virgin who has been mocked because of her appearance since ever, she wasn't estethically attractive and she knew. She never knew what it meant being courted or desired because she thought this day for her wouldn't come. So after Jaime patethic way of flirting she initially doesn't understand what the fuck is going on and gets confused, until she realized what is happening and all you can see is her completely disbelief.

The scene is supposed to be awkward because Jaime and Brienne are feeling awkward. Because it's their first time. Because they are getting vulnerable to someone who they disliked at first, but that now they love. Because they are living something that they never thought it would happen to them.

Just another prove of how Nikolaj Coster Waldau and Gwendoline Christie always understood their characters. While these people never did.

BONUS Jaime's face when he realized it's finally happening MY GOD I CAN'T WITH THESE TWO-

[spacerockfloater]

Cersei Lannister & Rhaenyra Targaryen:

Are forced to marry someone they don’t love, so they find solace in the arms of a family member and commit incest

Seduce members of the Royal Guard

Have their husbands murdered because they didn’t like them

Have three bastard kids

Commit atrocities to claim the Iron Throne

Betray their allies when they feel threatened

Rule with fire and blood

Live in constant paranoia so they murder innocent servants whom they believe will betray them, even if said betrayal would be a direct consequence of the way they treat their subjects

Are hated by the people

and lets us not forget the -

But no, please go ahead and tell me all about how Rhaenyra is this feminist icon who has the divine right to rule over hundreds of thousands of people because her daddy said so, therefore if I don’t support her I’m a misogynist.

[escailyyy]

I need a isekai transmigration fanfic where Cersei Lannister wakes up in the body of Alicent Hightower, because I know this woman would fix the green history real quick.

A weak king husband who is rotting from illness? 4 kids with dragons who desperately want her attention and approval? An entire kingdom who thinks she's some sort of devoted pious paragon of virtue? a sworn shield who worships the ground she walks in AND A devious psychopath ally who only wants to see her feet?. (that's TWO devoted dogs to order around and take advantage of) plus a dad who actually shows her a modicum of affection and a brother who would 100% lay down his life for her without any extra incentive.

I'm sorry Alicent you had Cersei's dream life and you couldn't take out one spoiled princess and her trigger happy uncle? Why? What's stopping you babe!!! You got handed the best tools to use in crushing her completely and you DIDN'T!!. That's definitely going to change.

Cue Cersei harnessing the power of #Queendom and showing Rhaenyra how the game is really played.

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

[miss-dollette]

A lot of people compare Alicent to Cersei, and I think it’s a bunch of bullshit - but I honestly WISH she was more like Cersei. ‘Cause you bet Cersei would have schemed on how to end Rhaenyra, Harwin and Daemon’s bloodlines the second she found out one of her children’s eye was cut out. She wouldn’t let it slide. Oh, no, she wouldn’t. Team Blacks fate would have been decided.

You guys have no idea how badly I desire for Daemon to meet the Cersei-Alicent combo. I want him to experience a REAL psycho bitch, and get out-crazied by that psycho bitch. I want her to show him how crazy is motherfucking done.

They wouldn’t be able to handle it. Cersei-Alicent with dragon-rider children would be absolutely demolishing TB.

[danyyytarggg]

one of my gripes about house of the dragon is the lack of a true royal court. in game of thrones, we were shown a red keep bustling with people, both servants and nobility alike. we were shown ladies-in-waiting and noble men and women at court attempting to seek favor from the royal family like cersei, margaery, etc. there were always people around and spectators to be careful of when conducting your business in the castle. we really are not gifted this in house of the dragon. sure, we’ve seen some small glimpses of the royal court and castle life but nothing significant enough to even be close to comparable to that of game of thrones, which is such a shame because it adds so much to the idea of nobility/royal life. in a way, it makes hotd sort of dull, lifeless, and empty in the red keep, dragonstone, driftmark, etc. as well as making the world small and sort of isolating around the targaryens/velaryons/royalty/small council, and not even in an “untouchable” sort of way, just sort of in a “there’s just nobody around” way. not to mention, depicting the royal court/nobility more would be significant in a show centered around a power struggle for the throne. and seeing team green and team black truly navigate court prior to viserys’ death as well as during this war would have added so much more to the story such as depth, significance, etc. even in appearance, the red keep seems dull whereas in game of thrones, the castle was vibrant, decorated, bustling.

this also plays a role in that i’m personally not a fan of how the show depicts royalty/nobility. from the lack of extravagant clothing (though i feel like the show has done just a tad bit better this season), lack of court/castle life, to the way people tend to blatantly disrespect the royal family without punishment (with the exception of vaemond), even the way they sometimes speak, the show lacks in giving me the sense of “THESE are the TARGARYENS. THIS is how ROYALTY are like. THIS is how the HIGHEST NOBILITY live.”

personally, the show just isn’t depicting royalty/royal court/castle life/nobility to the extent it should and can even come across as sloppy at some points.

[nogoodsheepstealing-greatgrandma]

GRRM: Here is a character with BELL-related trauma, whose greatest regret is that he didn't burn down an entire town to kill Robert Baratheon. He blames the death of the man he loved on his failure at the Battle of the BELLS, and he vows he will not fail the boy he believes to be his prince's son. He has a terminal illness that is known to eventually drive its victims to madness, and will soon be headed directly to King's Landing. Possibly joining him: a younger and more beautiful potential Queen from Dorne offering an alliance. Again, he is literally triggered by the memory of BELLS.

GRRM: Here is a character who burns the Tower of the Hand with extremely volatile wildfire just because she can't bear the look of it anymore. Her enthusiasm watching the pretty green flames reminds her twin of how the Mad King got aroused by burning people alive. Her obsession with a prophecy around a younger more beautiful Queen drives her to paranoia; she devotes all her attention to destroying a teenage girl while sending anyone she's suspicious/needs rid of to Qyburn to be experimented on and tortured. She pushed her friend down a well when she was 10, and murders her husband's infant bastards. She currently wants revenge on EVERY SINGLE PERSON in King's Landing who watched her Walk of Shame.

Y'all: Obviously Dany is going to burn down King's Landing.

[the-daily-dreamer]

I know Cersei Lannister would be team black. But not in an in universe “Rhaenyra deserved the crown way”. Rather a team black fandom kind of way.

Like yessssss! Bastards aren’t really bastards if the king or their father accepts them! Hair color means nothing about parentage, genetics are funky like that! Of course murdering a political opponent who calls out your children as bastards is totally justified and right! It’s putting the children in danger! Absolutely we should be angry at any naive teenage girl who doesn’t violently claw her way out of being a victim! Screw innocent teenage girls, they deserve it! Incest is so totally chill and cool, in fact birthing out of your house taints your blood and when you’re #special you can’t have that! And of course, madness from incest isn’t real! As long as your children are physically perfect and beautiful that’s all that matters!

Like I just know Cersei would be kicking and screaming reading the team black blogs because you’re telling me everything she believes and wants others to believe is just unironically spouted by team black? You’re telling me all she had to do was be a Targaryen and everyone would be doing backflips trying to protect her every choice?

I know she would be a number 1 team black blog spouting off their talking points and then not so subtly posting about herself like “hey come to think of it Joffrey and Tommen aren’t bastards either. Right? We should all support them. And also fuck Sansa Stark” and they would EAT IT UP.

[imfromthemiddlekingdom]

I don’t understand the fandoms love for Daemon, by all rights he should be as hated as Joffrey was. Not only did he do almost everything Joffrey did, he also did worse. Even Tywin wouldn’t hold a candle to his cruelty. I understand liking a villainous character, I do too with Cersei and Tywin, but I’ve never went out of my way to whitewash their characters. I love them because they are villainous and practically irredeemable, if team black stans liked Daemon for his villainous actions before and during the Dance of Dragons I wouldn’t have any problems with it. But the fact that they go out of their way to defend him killing Rhea Royce because “he was forced into a marriage he didn’t like!!!!” As if she wasn’t too. And the fact that they defend him sending Blood and Cheese to psychologically torture Haelena and kill Jaehaerys due to “a son for a son it’s only right” when they despise Alicents moment of madness when her son was denied justice, makes me want to hurl.

It’s alright to like villainous characters, it doesn’t make you a bad person if you like them. But you know what makes you a moronic person? Whitewashing everything that makes a character compelling because you want to like them without seeming like a ‘bad person’. Your opinion on a character does not determine your own morality, it doesn’t make you better or worse than someone who hates them. But what it does, when you erase their entire identity as a rouge to make them more palatable to you, is make you seem moronic, stupid, and lacking any critical thinking and reading comprehension skills.

Rhaenyra is a compelling character because she is entitled and spoiled and lacks any political experience, she shows how badly Viserys fucked up when he tried to compensate for his guilt of murdering Aemma. Alicent is a compelling character because she is a mother who is trying her best to protect her children from the reality that if Daemon took the throne for Rhaenyra, he would kill all of them because they are a threat. She is even more of a compelling character in the books because of her ambition and cunning and want for her family to rise far above the ‘station’ of being a noble house in the Reach (as if house Hightower aren’t the oldest house in Westeros who could trace their lineage back to both the Garth Greenhand the high king of the first men and the Andal Kings that came afterwards). Daemon, for all that I dislike him as a character, is compelling for his ruthlessness and shortsightedness in his pursuit of the throne. He didn’t raise an army for Viserys because he thought he was a competent leader, he did it because it raised his own standing within Westeros, he groomed Rhaenyra not because he loved her, but because having him in her good graces means that he stood a better chance of being king after she was named heir. His ruthlessness is compelling. Taking it away to make him into a ‘malewife’ or a ‘loving father’ or a man who is lacking any ambition beyond wanting a valyrian wife is taking away his agency. It makes him seem like a Gary Sue who only wants the throne because his brother said Rhaenyra was heir. It makes it so that he is so completely white bread like that not even I, someone who loved the more morally bankrupt characters in ASOIAF can find him agreeable in any way shape or form.

Daemon is a fundamentally morally bankrupt character and he should stay that way. If you like him you should acknowledge and accept that he is one of the ‘bad guys’. Just as Cersei fans acknowledge and accept that she is fundamentally a morally bankrupt person who is selfish to the extreme. We like morally black characters because they are morally black. To make excuses for their actions is to take away their agency which makes them unlikable and very hate-able.

Daemons actions aren’t justifiable, blood and cheese would never be justified. A son for a son is akin to the visceral disgust the fandom had to Alicent when she asked for Lucerys’ eye, yet I bet when season two comes out and Blood and Cheese happens we’d see Daemon fans applauding and trying to justify it as ‘not that bad’ and ‘team green deserved it because of Aemond’s actions’ when little Jaehaerys, a boy of 6, was as far removed from the incident as can be. It would be akin to Team Green saying that due to Jaehaerys’ death, Aegon III or Viserys II deserved to have their head cut off in front of Rhaenyra.

Let morally bankrupt characters be morally bankrupt. You aren’t morally bankrupt because you like said character, it’s a fictional story loosely based on Empress Matilda. It’s not that deep. Like the characters you like without trying to justify their actions. They might be monstrous but you aren’t because you like them. It’s not a measure of your own character because you like said character. But it is a measure of your intelligence when you try to change said character’s entire personality to make it so that they are more digestible to you and everyone else.

[janiedean]

@gift-to-literature replied to your post “I believe Jaime is a good person, but why do you...”:

the treasonous incest and the 3 bastards put in line for the throne are the prime cause for the vast majority of the destruction that occurs in the series.

​uuuhm... okay that's not exactly how I'd put it because like

with the premise imvho jaime has been an abuse victim/was manipulated by c./has issues for his entire life and that colors everything he's done/did up until asos and that's all I had to say on the question so it colors my view obviously

idt that those kids' existence is the cause for the vast majority of anything like not counting that if they didn't decide to overthrow robert and joffrey was raised decently no one would have cared at all about them and they'd have gotten on with their lives joffrey would have gotten the throne and nothing would have happened

tommen and myrcella's existence matters absolutely 0 in that matter because if joffrey hadn't existed and those two's personalities had stayed the same no one would have thought poisoning them was for the good of the realm

I highly doubt that jaime was thinking about possible consequences when those kids were conceived and again he had zero presence or responsibility in their raising so it's not on him also considering he did want to have a rship with them and it got shut down every fucking moment

I mean the vast majority of the destruction in these books is caused by the tywin/aerys generation having created a clusterfuck, rhaegar behaving like an idiot, robert not having realized he should have left ruling to someone capable, cersei being unable to play her cards smart and littlefinger not getting over being friendzoned plus both robert and cersei being shit parents to joffrey, not on jaime who at most didn't do anything because the one time he did the right thing after being traumatized for two years at 15-17 he ended up not giving a shit about whatever and ended up being - sorry for the crudeness - basically being cers's sperm bank so she could have children who looked like her that she'd see as her own property except for the first while his father manipulated him into ruining his brother's life XD like there's a lot of stuff that man needs to own up to/atone to starting with pushing bran out of the window but if he blamed himself for an entire war that he had no part in starting and for which he was barely present just because he had kids he barely even talked to and zero responsibility any person who ended up fathering/mothering someone who eventually turned out being a pos should feel responsible for whatever they did and like.... the war happened bc people plotted for robert to be taken out and no one would have figured out about joffrey if they hadn't done it and ned hadn't looked it into it and because joffrey was a little shit and decided to kill ned for fun, everything else is contingent XD

and I mean idk but following this reasoning then jaehaerys is at fault for his own house's downfall centuries later because he bought out the conclave to have them agree to targ incests being accepted and while we can argue forever about the actual thing, legitness and whatnot idt that it'd be fair to put it like that X°D

[2rats1gogh]

“Jace, Luke and Joffrey weren’t usurpers, Corlys named them his heirs!”

Okay but Robert Baratheon also named Joffrey his heir, because he thought he was his son. But that doesn’t make Joffrey any less of an usurper, does it? Pretty much anyone who has seen the show considers Joffrey an usurper, because everybody fucking knows he has no claim to the throne.

[norringtondeservestheworld]

evolution of how Jaime Lannister calls Brienne of Tarth

[rise-my-angel]

"Alicent is like Cersei" "No Rhaenyra is like Cersei"

WRONG. Neither of them are anything close to her. Cersei Lannister would wipe the floor with these two women, ruin their reputations, manipulate their entire families doom, have them both killed and fed to the dogs all before breakfast. I will not allow this slander to stand anymore. No one in hotd could ever compare to Cersei Lannister.

[bee-unknown]

Hate this shit

If Rhaenyra was anything like Cersei the dance wouldn't have happened because she would've gotten rid of Alicent as soon as Viserys announced her as his new bride

At the latest she would've killed her half-siblings days after being born, like "oopsie woopsie they all seem to have suffered from SIDS

[mikasaerens]

House of the Dragon lacks fearlessness

The characters are all too safe and sanitized.

Meanwhile in ASOIAF/GOT we had actual female rivalries and ambitious female characters.

Cersei destroys her entire kingdom and rule just to get Margaery locked up on false charges. She tortures an innocent man, has the High Septon killed, secures her bastards on the throne not caring that it led to a war, murdered her best friend at age 11 just because her friend had a crush on Jaime etc..

Daenerys is not afraid to kill her abusive brother brutally, she secures her rule by brutally killing slave masters (as she should)

Olenna commits regicide

Sansa feeds Ramsay to the dogs and smiles. She goes behind her brother’s back to secure the Army of the Vale to claim victory for herself in the Battle of the Bastards.

And so on and so on!! Nobody regrets shit. They’re allowed to be fucking actual human beings!! Complex, flawed and brutal!

Meanwhile we have Alicent hesitating at defending her own family and getting mad at Aemond for suggesting Helaena get off her ass and fight.

We have Rhaenyra worrying about the small folk like any royal would ever give a fuck.

This show butchered its female characters. Completely and utterly.