#hb stella

[dwewi66]

smol octavia🤲🤲🤲

[chaifootsteps]

Have some precious sanity.

[ohmyglobwhatthefrickamievendoing]

Blitz started out the day excited to have sex with stolas, he was giddy

and then stolas says that blitz no longer has any obligation to "touch me, bed me" instead of just stopping at to "see me" which would cover all bases, as if he thought separate from the whole deal Blitz found the idea of sex itself with stolas repulsive

How badly do you think all the shit stella said about his body and their sex life affected stolas?

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

Nuanced and Multifaceted Conflict vs. “Good v. Evil” in fiction

So. This is another thing I’ve wanted to talk about for a while. I promise I won’t always be focusing on Helluva Boss in my critiques, and I actually have quite a few other series I want to talk about.

There’s a big chance that I’ll be saying everything other people have already said, but I can’t help but WANT to talk about this specific character in regard to the story’s conflict. I think that it’s important to recognize when a character is written to be a complex person, and when a character is written to be an enemy to be defeated, and how not following through with your set-up can affect your story.

And HB does that A LOT in my opinion.

So. Let’s get into it. This time I’ll be talking about complex conflict between characters vs. black and white conflict, and I’ll also be touching on story set-ups and audience expectations.

I want to talk about a character who could have really made some of the internal character conflicts have so much more depth and intrigue. I want to talk about Stella Goetia

*as a side note this post is MUCH longer than I intended but I really wanted to get into a lot of the background and reasons for how Stella’s character development has actually completely changed what HB’d story conflict could have looked like. I’ll try and sum up everything in the end in a TLDR for y’all

So. Most of the reviews of her character I see talk about how she’s been “ruined” by the writing team revealing that she’s always been very abusive towards Stolas

I have to start off by saying I actually don’t think that Stella or her portrayal was “ruined” by the writing direction her character has been taken in.

In fact, this critique bothers me, because it doesn’t really get to what I think the actual root of why people are disappointed in Stella’s characterization, and the type of conflict that now exists between her and Stolas.

The main reason I believe people are unsatisfied with Stella is because they believed that her character was being set up for a complex and nuanced conflict between her and Stolas, and then that turned out not to be the case.

A quick disclaimer- I do think it’s possible to subvert audience expectations about story and characters in a satisfying way. But it has to be done in a way that respects the audiences intelligence and willingness to think about the story.

If your plot-twist, unreliable narrator, subversion, or what-have-you is done well, the audience should be able to either figure out what’s going based on the little information you’ve given them, and if they don’t, the change or subversion should still make sense and CLICK in hindsight.

Otherwise, your subversion will end up feeling cheap or confusing. Or worse, like a lie.

And this is one of the MAIN issues I think people have with Stella.

As the audience, we were NOT given enough information on her or her character before it’s revealed that she’s just “evil” and always has been, apparently since she was a literal child.

Again, I don’t think it’s an inherently bad decision to have a flat or pure evil villain. I’m fine with Stella being one, even if it’s less interesting to me personally.

But it’s definitely very different from what was initially implied and set-up, and the audience can pick up on that.

Before S2E1 “The Circus” we see Stella a total of 3 times in person, with one time being a flashback.

I’m going to go over those times to analyze if anything set-up in Stella’s appearances points towards her being. Well, totally and irredeemably awful and abusive I guess.

The very first time we see Stella is in the same bed with Stolas—Octavia calls for her parents, both Stolas AND Stella. Stella grumbles and refuses to get up and tells Stolas to go. This doesn’t immediately strike me as a sign of her being a terrible person. That exact scenario is present in a lot of family comedies, kids’ movies, and sitcoms.

Nothing about this screams that Stella is a terrible parent or an abusive partner to me. It just tells me she’s tired and doesn’t want to get up, which again, is not uncommon.

The next time we see her, she’s yelling at Stolas, and she throws a servant at him in anger.

Now, there’s no excuse for this, her behavior here is not okay, regardless of her feelings. But we understand why she’s acting the way she is--she’s furious with Stolas for cheating on her. At this point with the information we have, it’s also very reasonable to believe her feelings have been hurt.

Later Octavia talks about how her parents didn’t used to hate each other, and the way Stolas’ tries to explain their failing marriage to her comes across like his relationship with Stella is one that’s always had difficulties that they have tried and failed to overcome.

None of this information is enough to really convey or hint that Stella is and has always been abusive or evil. It shows that Stella and Stolas have a very rough relationship, and that Stella most likely has anger management difficulties, but you have to do lot of extra work to come to the conclusion that Stella is completely at fault here.

The next time we see her though, things have clearly escalated, because it’s revealed that she’s one that hired Striker to assassinate Stolas.

Now. Usually. Yeah. That would be a HUGE red flag. And I mean. It still obviously is.

But, and I never thought I’d use this uno reverse card, this is one of the few times where the explanation of “But it’s hell, what did you expect???” actually makes sense to me.

Because yeah, it is hell. It’s the end of episode 5 when we learn this, and our protagonists have killed and assassinated multiple people. Taking a hit out on people really doesn’t seem to be that uncommon of a thing in hell.

Even the next scene after the reveal that Stella is the one who hired Striker makes light of how serious this is, by showing that Stella was basically yelling her assassination plot right to Stolas’ face.

This is played for laughs! I genuinely am not sure if the writers intended for this to be foreshadowing of Stella’s abuse or not because if so, they turned her attempting to kill her husband into a joke!

If you cannot keep your themes or tone consistent, how is the audience supposed to follow your story?

There is subtle storytelling, and then there’s tacking information and character points later on in your writing. And this can have two causes.

Either your audience has to do the work of story-telling for you and make up their own reasons for what’s happening to make the story coherent OR they will be disappointed and dissatisfied by the final product.

I think that’s the main reason why S2E1 of Helluva Boss felt so jarring story-wise, and why Stella, to me at least, suddenly felt like a brand new character.

Like I haven’t been this confused by a character being suddenly evil since Hans from Frozen.

(like seriously why the hell did they put this scene in if not to just trick the audience. This isn’t giving us any plot info it’s only giving us contradictory info on his character. Like I talked about before, Hans’ heel-face-turn doesn’t feel like a twist. It feels like a lie.)

Okay so, how does any of this actually affect anything? Who cares if Stella is evil, that doesn’t automatically make the story bad!

Well. Yeah, of course not. Ironically, having the main conflict your story being a battle between “Good v. Bad” characters is neither good nor bad. It’s just a story decision. And ultimately at the end of the day, the writers of Helluva Boss can choose to tell their story however they’d like.

But, depending on how this is executed, good v evil stories can be a lot less interesting than morally grey or complicated conflicts and characters.

I am more interested in the version of the story where Stella and Stolas are imperfect and messy people. I am more interested in the story where Stolas has an affair to escape being in an arranged marriage, and Stella overreacts by arranging a hit on her husband (unless calling out a hit is normal in hell, but we can’t know b/c there is no baseline for what is considered normal in hell)

I am so much more interested in the story where Stolas and Stella are both depicted as being in the wrong, as being incredibly hurt by each other’s actions, and as not knowing how to repair their broken relationship for the sake of their daughter.

That story feels very real to me. It’s one I want to engage and invest in.

I want to see if these characters can grow to accept their mistakes and learn and change for the sake of Octavia and having to co-exist with each other, or if they’ll slip back into mutual destruction and toxicity.

But that’s not the story we’ll get to see, because it seems like the writers are more interested in keeping Stolas from having to grow as a character. And because of that, Stella has been turned into an evil obstacle that must be defeated, instead of a nuanced and real person.

I also feel like I have to say. I know I would be MUCH less frustrated by this if I hadn’t seen an HB crew member talking about how their show is similar to Bojack Horseman.

Because. It’s just not. I’m sorry, I’m not saying that to be mean, or condescending, or rude, but the way characters are written in Helluva Boss is almost completely black and white at this point.

Regardless of the writer’s intent, the vast majority of the choices they have made in Season 2 come off as explanations to excuse the protagonist’s mistakes, and give them a “get out of being potentially in the wrong” free card.

Compared to the writing decisions in Bojack, which almost always has characters confront their wrongdoings, for better or worse, HB honestly feels like it’s the Anti-Bojack.

It would take a TON of character development and time to make HB’s characters as interesting, fleshed-out, and as real as Bojack’s are, and at this point that’s I don’t think it will ever happen.

Again. Having black and white conflict is FINE. It is a choice in story telling that can be done very effectively. But if you are making a black and white story where one side is always terrible and evil, and one side can do no wrong, you can’t act like you’ve written something that is deeper and more emotionally complex and grey than that.

And the first time the writers gave Stella more than 3 sentences to string together, they made it very clear that any chance of her being a more complex and engaging character was being tossed out the window.

————

TLDR:

The main reason people are upset about Stella being shown as abusive in S2E1 of HB is probably because the initial depictions of her didn’t give us enough information on her character to tell that she was just evil/a terrible person.

The way the story was written in S1 to set up the possibility of a very interesting and complex conflict between Stella and Stolas, and when it was revealed that she’s just. The worst. There were people that were disappointed by this, because they expected more.

Audiences actually aren’t idiots, and when you subtly foreshadow something and then completely change things, that can be frustrating.

It’s MORE than okay to write a straightforward good v evil story, but it depending on the way it’s written and executed, it may not be as interesting to mature audiences as a more morally grey story would be.

If you can’t write characters confronting their flaws and being in the wrong, please don’t compare your writing to Bojack, I mean. C’mon.

[hogwartshotel]

Oh no maybe I am going to make a bunch of text posts now. Hadn't seen this one done yet.

[helluva-boss-girls-collages]

[prof-ramses]

More Golden Goose (Mammon x Stella) stuff! (and some other HCs)

Much like the last volume, this batch of ideas will contain some HCs that are only included by virtue of association with a Golden Goose one.

Mammon doesn't have any chefs in his house staff, partly because he doesn't want the extra expense, but also because he actually enjoys cooking and is very skilled at it. This comes as a pleasant surprise to Stella and Octavia.

Contrasting the last one, Ozzie is actually a pretty sloppy cook and doesn't know many recipes, it's just that, unlike Fizz, the things he makes can at least be called food. The only reason they didn't have a chef was to lessen the risk of someone "discovering" their relationship. The first thing Asmodeus did after the mid-season special was put out a chef wanted ad.

Stella will often tell Mam stories about Via as a little kid and show him any accompanying photos she has. He's always enthralled by these and starts his own family photo album shortly after the first time Stella does this. Mammon sometimes spends minutes on end looking at the album, it's come closer than anything else to making him run late for a meeting.

Whenever they cross paths Mam chews out Stolas for treating his family like shit. Stolas tries the defend himself the first time but Mammon doesn't let him pull his scummy excuses. After that, Stolas would just fume in silence and shame whenever this happens.

Via eventually starts writing and composing her own songs and puts together an album. Mam and Stella are super proud but also not sure what to do when it comes to releasing it. After a long family discussion, Mam decides Via can perform it, but only at an exclusive royal gathering, while it's publicly released later under the stage name Great Eclipse, with a slight voice modifier.

Stella has a deep appreciation of art, especially performance art. Any performance that's any performance will have Greed's royal family in the audience. Stella also often listens to Via's songs in her free time.

Stella sometimes calls Mammon "Muffin" as a pet name. Her reasoning is that he's big, warm, soft and sweet (and she loves the way he tastes).

Lastly, for some angst and comfort: Early into the relationship Stella often felt a sense of not being good enough for or being a burden to Mam, as she didn't have much varied life experience. This would sometimes throw her into manic depressive states and bring out her more aggressive side. The first time this happened Mam freaked out and was terrified that he'd lose Stella. Luckily, Via was able to smooth out the situation and tell Mammon about her mom's problems and the signs that she's having a "mood". Ever since then, if Mam even thinks that Stella is having those self deprecating intrusive thoughts he makes sure to do something extra just for her. No matter how small it is, Stella always cherishes it and these issues almost completely disappear by the time they get married.

[thatguywhodoesstuff]

Golden Goose Date Aftermath

Stella: Mammon kissed me!

Camio: Oh my stars! Oh my stars! Oh my stars!

Stella: It was unbelievable!

Camio: Oh my stars! Oh my stars! Oh my stars!

Furfur: Okay, we want to hear everything. Camio, get the wine and unplug the phone. Stella, does this end well or do we need tissues?

Stella: Oh, it ended very well~

Camio: (Walks back into the room, wine in hand) Don’t start without me! Do not start without me!

Furfur: Okay, alright let’s hear about the kiss. Was it a soft brush against your lips or was it like a, you know, “I have you now” kind of thing.

Stella: Well, at first it was really intense, you know? And then, oh fuck, and then we just sort of sunk into it.

Camio: Ohh… So, okay, was he holding you? Or was his hands on your back?

Stella: (Smiles fondly) First they were on my waist and then they slid up and then they were in my feathers.

Camio & Furfur: Ohhh.

-Meanwhile-

Mammon: And, uh, then I kissed her

Lucifer: (Thinks on it) Tongue?

Mammon: Yeah.

Bee: Cool.

[keebiecoo]

100% i get if you have different feelings but, I love Stella Goetia as a villain & I will legit never understand why some people say her writing is sexist or flat.

How would her being a good mum to Via & trying to be a good wife to Stolas & being a legit betrayed & heartbroken housewife be better than her canon writing? Her writing in canon isn't sexist, that being people's fav way of "fixing her" is.

Why do people think it's sexist for her to be strong & stupid in her abuse tactics??? This is not sexist writing, this is not how sexists write women, you just want a different character entirely, let her be an abusive homophobe with no gentle or motherly bone in her body, let her be a mean & heavy handed & loud & bigoted villain.

Why is 90% of the Stella posts i see just people dunking on her writing in the show & wishing she was replaced by a different woman who behaves like everyone thinks female characters should??

Also seeing people act like she should have more sympathy or a better reason for abusing Stolas kills me.

One, she's abusive, she doesn't need to be sympathetic, & two, she already in canon has a clear defined motivation! She's homophobic & racist & sexist & controlling! That is her motivation! It is a very consistent & realistic part of her character & it's shown clearly how she ended up this way!!!

"We want more fucked up female characters" y'all couldn't even handle Stella Goetia. smh

[echoarts03]

Crackship Alert!

I got into this fucking ship after following Devil's Roost's art posts on Twitter about some things that happened in their RP server, and then a user did a dub over the entirety of the comic with their boyfriend and I lost my SHIT laughing XD

I wish I drew more, but I was all out of ideas by the time I finished these two. If you guys have any ideas I'd love to hear em, but for now, you get this! XD

Don't steal my art or repost it on other platforms, or I WILL break your knees.

[lolotheparagon]

Helluva Boss is Hella Sexist to Both Men and Women - Part 1

Just saw a video about Helluva Boss and whether its sexist or not with portraying its female characters and that got me thinking:

Are Helluva Boss' writers misogynists?

No. No one INTENTIONALLY writes misogynistic material unless you're Bruce Timm or Blizzard but what they're writing DEFINITELY COMES ACROSS AS SEXIST because the writers are so busy juggling every plot thread and character arc at once, they forget to write the main fucking characters apart from Blitzo. ESPECIALLY its female characters like Millie, Loona, Stella and Octavia.

You can use good faith arguments until you're blue in the face, but the truth of the matter is treating ALL of their main female characters as vehicles for the male characters' development with little characterisation beyond that IS misogynistic.

Lets start with Millie.

Millie is the most egregious case since she's one of the main employees at IMP yet we barely see Millie do anything other than be Moxxie's wife or a killing machine. And the fact her only s1 episode "where we see her family " plot getting sidelined for a Moxxie plot is unbelievable. Millie is by far the show's most promising character you can write mountains of stories about. But instead the show makes her a crazy lovable girlboss TM without any goals or aspirations and only exists as Moxxie's support system. Shes fine if shes meant to be a side character but shes in a main ensemble cast and you CANT have one of your main 4 characters be just the cool badass wife who can benchpress a tractor. That's fine for a tumblr art post, not for a character in a professional episodic animated tv show

Loona is supposed to be 21 or something yet she acts like every surly teenager who abuses her adoptive father Blitz, who's done nothing but love and cherish her. Yet she always beats him up whenever Blitz is merely in her vicinity. And so far we havent got an episode or even A SCENE where Loona and Blitz just sit down and unpack everything. That one flashback of Loona being from a hellhound orphanage/pound wouldve been so interesting to explore as a full episode, but it was only set up so Blitz can have a panic attack. So, much like Millie, Loona's character arcs and plotlines get shifted aside for more dumb scenes and Brandon Rogers references. Loona doesn't even change her attitude towards others throughout the series so far and remains as sardonic and bitchy as ever, cos heaven forbid we have our characters develop. Fans wont buy our overpriced merch of our furry waifu otherwise.

Octavia only exists in the story to make Stolas look like the most wholesome dada so the fans will completely forget hes in an unhealthy power-imbalanced relationship with Blitz, a lower class imp, purely for sex but then grows romantically attached to which Blitz adamantly refuses to see it that way. (Stolas also has imps as servants which he treats with apathy or contempt so already sets a bad precedent) but circling back to Octavia, Stolas claims to love his daughter very much but we've never shown that often BUT STOLAS DOESNT EVEN CARE ABOUT OCTAVIA UNLESS SHES IN ACTUAL DANGER COS HE GETS DISTRACTED BY HORNY BLITZY OR IS TOO IMCOMPETENT TO DO ANYTHING PROACTIVE

In Loo Loo Land, he learns to be more considerate of her feelings and comforts her after ignoring her throughout the whole episode. What happens in the next Stolas and Octavia episode? Octavia gets dismissed by Stolas AGAIN, this time by his ex-wife, when she asks about a star event THEY PLANNED TO GO TO, so she runs away to the human world to see it for herself. And yet who consoles her at the observatory scene? FUCKING LOONA OF ALL PEOPLE! WHY CANT STOLAS GO UP THERE, FINALLY FINDING HER AT LAST AND TALK TO HER? YKNOW THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT WHY STOLAS IS IN THE HUMAN REALM TO BEGIN WITH??! HE'S WAITING AROUND IN A SITCOM AUDIENCE WHILE BLITZO DOES HIS FAILING ATTEMPTS AT COMEDY

Octavia's own feelings about her relationship with her dad, how her parents divorce has affected her, her relationship with her mother Stella, ITS ALL SIDELINED for more self-indulgent Stolitz shipping. I feel so sorry for Octavia, she deserves better. She should be adopted by Blitz, he's more an actual father figure than Stolas.

And finally, Stella. Stella is an interesting case cos I have no qualms with having a bitchy abusive wife villain for Stolas to fight back against. Im totally fine with Stolas standing up to Stella and finally divorcing that bitch. But I really wish Stella had more presence throughout the first season, constantly bringing up tension and stress to piss off Stolas, since she likes tormenting him so much. Cos piling all of her insults and cartoonishly over the top bitchiness in one episode (The Circus) was too much and with how that episode woobified Stolas already, it only added to the problem. Nothing inherently wrong character-wise with Stella, shes established as a unrepentant bitch and stays that way. She is ultimately a vehicle for Stolas' character development but shes not a main character so its fine. The story is not about her.

But I find it pretty rich that the show treats being Loona being abusive to her father figure for no good reason like a joke, whereas Stella's abuse of Stolas about to slap him is portrayed as a serious, shocking moment.

So in conclusion, Helluva Boss DOES push several negative stereotypes of women. The one-note girlboss wife who's plotlines always get shafted in support of the male characters (Millie), the teenager who's desperate for paternal love from her father, leaving her bored and neglectful but the father in question does some bare minimum effort and that's suddenly okay in her eyes (Octavia) and the double standard that abuse is funny when a woman is hitting a man (Loona and Blitzo). Except when it isnt (Stella and Stolas)

This show is a fucking mess: part 1

(I will elaborate on the male characters treatment in another post. If I forgot anything or made a mistake, let me know, im always open for feedback!

And yes, I'm aware I omitted Verosika Mayday from this list because she's ultimately harmless as a character and only exists as a rival to Blitz. Also she only appeared in two episodes so I dont have much to say about her.)

[dwewi66]

Magically, I endow all of Vivz's female characters with a personality

[chaifootsteps]

Pictures of Stella looking happy in the leak to keep an eye on, because it'll be interesting to see whether they're changed.

[jazzmasternot]

I mean if my husband cheated on me I’d be mad too

[misterrttegrimborn]

Weathers - Happy Pills

(my edit)

[loganslowdown4]

Via Theory For Helluva Boss (after Western Energy S2E4)

I’m afraid for Via now.

Stolas displayed this fatherly rage when Striker hinted at harming his daughter. The problem is I don’t know how deranged Stella and Andre are to get the fortune.

Maybe they wouldn’t go as far as putting a hit on Via, BUT they might force her to marry someone of their choice which they would benefit from.

Arranged marriages seems to be a running theme in this show, or bought companionship.

If any discomfort or harm came to Via, well, I have a feeling you wouldn’t want to see Stolas THAT angry.