#greatest joker stories ever told

[vertigoartgore]

1988's Batman: The Killing Joke cover by Brian Bolland and Richard Bruning.

[giftideasfromaycaramba]

Why so serious?

[holy-shit-comics]

[hazelsmirrorball]

Spiderman’s Biggest Fan |  Jaime Reyes.  Part 2

summary:  Jaime Reyes is the biggest spiderman fan. His girlfriend on the other hand is Spiderman's biggest hater. 

pairings: Jaime Reyes x Spiderman! FemReader 

a/n:  Hi! I received lots of love in the first part and I want to thank you guys so much. I haven’t been having the greatest week and that really cheered me up. I rarely do second parts but here you guys go. Ps. There is also another part coming soon. 

warning: English isn’t my main language. Angsty and kinda sad. Not edited

[MASTERLIST]

part one.  part three part four part five

Family dinners. 

You either love them or hate them. Good food, people you love and drama all bottled up on a dining room table at around six thirty pm. An nightly event that could either ruin your night or make a beautiful memory for the future. There was no in between and by the looks of it, Y/n was getting the short end of the stick. 

The past two weeks had been a living hell for the girl. Trying to balance her regular life with her superhero life was barely impossible the past weeks.  She had been Spiderman for years now and she had managed to balance both of her lives with ease but now, she was losing it. She couldn’t sleep, she couldn’t eat, she couldn’t focus. Y/n had never felt like this, even when her uncle died she didn’t feel as bad as she felt right now. Her spider senses didn’t have to tell her that something bad was going to happen at this dinner, her common sense already told her that. It wouldn’t surprise her if Doc Ock would enter through the door and make a big fiasco but she thought that it would be better than standing in this uncomfortable silence. No one dared to say anything which was rare with both of the families. They usually would fight to shut people up making even more ruckus but right now the only thing you could hear was the metal of the spoons scraping off the plates and the wall on the clock. No one said a word and that drove Y/n insane. She could feel her eyelids flutter shut as she thought of the last two weeks. 

The Justice League had  been all up her ass making her work even more than usual. Not even the titans were working as much as her. Don’t get her wrong, she loved crime fighting but criminals in Palmera weren’t as scary as the ones in Gotham. She would prefer having to deal with people stealing a croissant  at a cafe than having to deal with one of the Joker's bombs. It was great that Batman trusted her with big missions but she needed a break.  Gotham wasn’t for her and quite frankly she didn’t understand how Jaime was capable of staying there for so long.  Gotham was hell and that drove her on the brick of insanity, maybe she would turn into the Joker of Palmera because at this point she was losing it as much as him. Y/n was starting to regret accepting the honorary position in the Justice League. She was in between cities Gotham, Metropolis and Palmera. Palmera, Metropolis, Gotham. 

To make matters even worse, Villains in Palmera were multiplying by the minute thanks to Blue Beetle’s  appearance and to make her life even more difficult Blue Beetle was MIA. No one had heard a word from him. She hadn’t personally met him but ever since he had shown up her life got even more difficult, so long story short she wasn't the biggest Blue Beetle fan. Since he was MIA Spiderman had to fight her “arch nemesis” plus the ones Blue Beetle had managed to bring to Palmera. Y/n knew the media was against her but she also knew that the people of Palmera counted on her. People like her family needed to be protected, there  couldn’t be more deaths like Uncle Ben’s. She wouldn’t allow that, so even if she had to lose her sanity and her life, Y/ was going to do the impossible to keep Palmera safe.  

Those problems were only the spiderman one’s. If her life as Spiderman was rough Y/n’s  life was ten feet underground. She was failing classes left and right, barely keeping up due to the fact that she was in between cities. She couldn’t talk to Jaime that night which made him completely ignore her. Aunt Marisol started acting weird around her, like she knew something she didn’t.  The Reyes family had to stop the construction due to some new laws that were happening and the tip of the iceberg, Milagro knew Y/n’s secret and she was eager to tell someone. 

Y/n wasn’t okay. Well she never was. Even though she was an orphan, Aunt Marisol and Uncle Ben made her life good, they raised her as their own and gave her a good life. They worked hard for her to get to where she was at in life.  She was okay before she was bitten. Y/n had a normal life with aspirations. She had friends and family that loved her. She was doing well in highschool and she was on her way to get a degree. She was starting her relationship with her best friend and would fantasize about having a family with Jaime. And right now, at the age of twenty two she was losing everything she worked hard for with a blink of an eye. They were in depth, she was failing school, she was going insane, she didn’t know where she stood with Jaime and Uncle Ben was dead. All because she was bitten by a radioactive spider. Scratch that, all because she didn’t have the capability of balancing her two lives. 

Before she could even go half way through her inner monologue her thoughts got broken by her head slamming against the hard wooden table waking her up immediately while also gaining everyone's attention. Her tired eyes scanned around the table straddle. Everyone was aware and used to the constant lack of sleep from her behalf but watching the dark eyebags and the food that was barely touched made them worry. Y/n noticed the multiple pair of pity eyes staring at her so she kept on looking around trying to see something different and that when she saw it. Milagros' eyes looked deep into her soul. It was worrying to Y/n already the fact that at any moment Milagro could spill the beans of her secret but the look on Y/n’s face made her scared. She was going to tell them, Y/n was dead. 

After managing to avoid the family for the past two weeks, everything was going down while they were attempting to have a nice family dinner. If she survived this she was going to remember this as the downfall of family dinners. 

Y/n glared  at Milagro  as she slowly shook her head not wanting for her to say a word. Y/n had hid her identity for years and she was successful. She never missed a beat and no one suspected a thing. But because she slipped one time, every secret she held was ruined. 

“Okay! Since no one wants to address the elephant in the room I will…” Milagro started but before she could continue. Y/n slammed her hand on the table getting up quickly, gaining everyone's attention.

“This food is amazing. You guys really ate with this. Have I told you how good you have gotten at cooking? Nana and Rocio really have helped you a lot. We should all get cooking classes so we could all make really good food like this one. We could maybe even open a food store, because from the looks of it, I might drop out of grad school. I don’t know, cooking school would probably eat. See, I’m good at telling cooking jokes. Is it getting hot in here or is it just me? ” Y/n said quickly  as she picked up a glass of water gulping it down. Everyone stared at her with wide eyes trying to comprehend what was happening but before anyone could say a thing, her Aunt got up from her chair looking at her with angry eyes. 

“ Que tu me estas tratando de decir, Y/n. After everything we’ve done for you, you are going to tell me that you are failing school?”  

“No, tampoco así. Solo es que… I took two weeks off and now I’m a little behind on school but I can catch up on it now since I don’t have a job” She said quickly while closing her eyes not ready to see her aunt's face. Nana gasped as she heard the words escaping from her lips. 

“What do you mean you don’t have a job? What happened to your job at the Daily Bugle.” Aunt May exclaimed, passing a hard roughly through her hair. 

“Well, they didn’t like the fact that I took two weeks of work?” She said gulping hard not wanting to  dig herself a bigger grave.

“What? Do you think money grows on trees, Y/n! We are not rich. We can barely afford to pay rent let alone bring food to the table and you have the decency to tell me that you lost your job and that your failing school like it’s just a little game. This is real life and Ben and I risked a lot of things you could have the life you have right now. We took you in andmade you our own and this is how you repay us? These past few weeks I’ve seen a side of you I’ve never seen and Dios que feo es. I don’t know what’s going on with you, but it has to stop right  now. Disappearing to God knows where, ditching school, ignoring your family, ignoring Jaime. Have you looked at yourself for a minute in the mirror? I don’t recognize the women you’ve become and quite frankly this wasn’t the way I raised you and I bet Ben wouldn’t even recognize you too” Aunt Marisol yelled sternly as Y/n stared at her tears threatening to spill from her eyes. Y/n could feel her watch buzzing but all she could hear was her aunt's voice echoing through her head. 

She screwed up and she screwed up big time. It didn’t take long for her to push her chair back and walk towards her room. As she went up the stairs she could hear hush voices talking at the table. Y/n could feel a lot of emotions right now, but most importantly she felt ashamed and embarrassed.  Y/n was fucking up her life by the minute and everyone could see it but her.  She tried her best to block it out as she entered her bed letting a loud cry onto her pillow.  She raised her head from the pillow tapping her hand against her nightstand to pick up a small compact mirror. She looked at the reflection not recognizing who was staring back at her. Aunt Marisol was right, she couldn’t even recognize herself.  She had lost herself and all her hard work. 

Y/n felt once again her watch buzzing which made her angrily throw it against the wall. She let herself drown with tears as her head fell one again on her pillow. Lost in her thoughts she didn’t notice the tall frame enter her room and sit on the edge of the bed. Once his hands rubbed her back she felt her body tense up missing the familiar touch. She slowly raised her head from the pillow looking towards them, her eyes being completely swollen already. As she got up slowly sitting next to him, she played with her hands not daring to look  him in the eyes. 

“Jaime, please listen to me when I say this. I know I’ve been acting weird and I know I’ve been a bad girlfriend. I’ve been ignoring you. But I really can’t lose you, you are the one person that keeps me sane and I know things are weird between us right now but trust me when I say this, I would never cheat on you. You are one of the best things that has ever happened to me and I would never risk losing that. I love you so much Jaime. I-I I swear that wasn’t a hic…” Y/n said in between cries, but before she could even continue Jaime pulled her into a tight hug, kissing the top of her head. Y/n cried into his chest as he rubbed her hair. 

“Y/n, I trust you. I don’t know what you're going through right now. Pero te quiero ayudar. I love you so much and it hurts me to see you like this. Even though everyone is saying that they can't recognize you, I still see that beautiful girl I’ve been in love with since forever. You’re Y/n, the caring and loveable girl that would do anything for her family. The girl that is obsessed over romance books and loves to write.  You are Y/n L/n the light to this world, to my world” Jaime said as he pulled Y/n’s chin up placing a kiss on her lips. She missed this, she missed being this close with Jaime. She remembered why she started doing this in the first place, so that Palmera could be safe so they could live the life they deserved and worked for. 

“Jaime, I wanted to tell you. I’m sp…” Before she could continue Milagros slammed the door open making the couple let go of themselves. 

“Hey! I’m sorry to ruin your little moment but Doctor Octopus just came through our front door! And he got Aunt Marisol!” 

part 3.

[MASTERLIST]

[jokeroutsubs]

🧊JokerOutSubs Iceberg Explained

Layer by layer

Explanations below the cut 👇

First layer:

Three kaksi ananas lonkero: 

This is a fun anecdote told by Jan during our Tampere interview. They wanted to order three ananas (‘pineapple’) lonkero in Finland and… well, watch the video at 7:44 to find out :)

Noteworthy: 

This is how Jan (again!) described his friendship with Nace when asked about the Damon Baker photoshoot during our London interview. Check it out here at 46:42 if you missed it!

‘JokerOutSubs: No one translates it better.’: 

Another reference to our London interview with the boys. This is something that Bojan said about JokerOutSubs. We loved it so much, we added it as an intro to our original content, and a tagline on all our platforms! See it here at 0:08!

Second layer:

‘We have a certain type of door locks.’: 

Another fun anecdote from our Tampere interview, this time from Jure! Did you know that Finland and Slovenia had such different door locks? We sure didn’t! Learn more about it here at 4:33!

JOS Stožice live: 

On the 6th of October, several of our members went to Joker Out at Stožice, and live streamed the gig for over 1000 people! You can find both parts of the livestream here and here

‘Ofcourse the best interview was done by joker.out.subs’ and ‘always a pleasure chatting with joker.out.subs: 

These are some lovely messages that Joker Out shared through their IG stories after two of our interviews.

Hvala, fantje. Radi vas mamo <3

Third layer:

Italyboo: 

This was an award that we gave to the winner of our ‘How Italian ARE YOU?’ game during our Padova interview. Watch the game and find out who the lucky winner is here at 13:10!

Kiki the PR genius: 

This funny tale from the Padova interview here at 3:15 is about Kiki, their ‘beloved technician’ (Bojan’s words, not ours). It’s thanks to him that the whole JO fandom had a meltdown over the lyrics to Šta bih ja before we even heard the song live in Helsinki! Thank you, Kiki, you mastermind. 

Carpe Diem and Welcome to the Backstage translations:

Possibly the greatest pride for us at JokerOutSubs was being allowed to add subtitles to Joker Out’s Carpe Diem and Welcome to the Backstage series. Thank you boys and THANK YOU MARK for your trust. 

Translating Cvetličarna: 

Did you know how JokerOutSubs started? What the first big video ever translated was? It was this, the concert in Cvetličarna. If you want to know some lore, make sure not to miss our chat with Anja, who founded JokerOutSubs, and who came up with the idea of translating in the first place!

Cedevita:

You haven’t really tasted Slovenia if you hadn’t had a sip of Cedevita, a fruit-flavoured instant fizzy drink, packed with vitamins. (Cedevita pls sponsor us). This drink is actually Croatian, but it’s so popular in Slovenia it’s a staple in every household. It was part of the ‘package from home’ we gave to Joker Out during our London interview - you can see the snacks we gifted them here at 3:18. One of our members was served a very generous portion by Jure!

Fourth layer:

‘Deeeeej mi vse.’:

This is referencing the original lyrics to Umazane misli, explained to us by Bojan himself in our London interview at 30:42. One of our members also sang this version in Milano during Umazane misli karaoke!

Damon Baker mentioned you in his story:

The moment that gave JOS members a heart attack. The wonderful Damon Baker shared our short interview with Kris on his Instagram story to 1.2 million people! We love you Damon! 

'Your nipples are shining so much man.’:

One of the most cursed translations we have ever done - Bojan slow dancing with a mannequin during the London era.

April fools:

On April 1st 2024, we decided to have a little fun with the fanbase and post some fake articles on our Tumblr. Kris and Jure even shared their articles on their stories! You can check them out here:

Bojan moving to Finland

Kris joining K3

Jure’s drumstick crisis

Jan and Nace’s new cat

Lightswitches:

Kris told us in our Tampere interview that one of his biggest culture shocks in Finland was that it’s always hard to find the lightswitch. You can watch it here at 4:19.

Fifth layer:

Pięćdziesięciogroszówka w klubie:

Jan told us in Finland that he liked long words, so we came to our second Joker Out interview in Poland prepared! This means '50 cents (in the club).' Watch the boys try to pronounce it here at 12:54

Translating made up words:

Joker Out enjoy making up words, which we then have to translate! That means we need to make up our own words in lots of different languages. We have hundreds of examples of this, but our favourite is probably sparklative - and here it is in different languages! 

Danish - Glitretivende (based on glitrende, ‘sparkling’, the adjective henrivende, ‘good looking/charming’ and the adverb rivende, which is an amplifying expression meaning something like ‘completely’)

Dutch - Sprankelijk (based on sprankelend, ‘sparkly’ and the suffix -elijk)

Finnish - Kimalleltava (based on kimaltava, ‘sparkling’)

French - Brilliantesque (based on brilliant, ‘sparkly’, and the suffix -esque)

German - Glitzernig (based on Glitzern, ‘to sparkle’ and the suffix -ig)

Hungarian -Csillogoló (based on csillogó, ‘sparkling’)

Italian - Scintalloso (based on scintillare, ‘to sparkle/shine’, the suffix -oso and an -a instead of on -i in the second syllable. The correct word for ‘sparkling’ is scintillante or brillante)

Japanese - かやがいてる, kayagaiteru (based on かがやいてる (輝いてる)/kagayaiteru, ‘sparkling/shining’)

Macedonian - Cветникаво, svetnikavo (based on светка/svetka, which means ‘sparkle’ and the suffix -никаво/-nikavo)

Polish - Iskrzające (based on iskrzące, 'sparkling')

Serbian/Croatian- Šljokičazmično (based on šljokičasto, ‘glittery/sequined’)

Slovenian- Bleščečitno (based on bleščeče, 'sparkly', and the suffix -no/-tno which serves a similar purpose as the suffix -ive/-tive in English)

Spanish - Brillantivo (based on brillante, ‘sparkling’)

Swedish - Glittererande (based on glittrande, ‘sparkling’)

Turkish - Fışıltılı (based on ışıltılı, ‘sparkling’)

Stožice project:

The fan project at Stožice, in which everyone held coloured hearts to their phone lights and held up signs with a message, was actually organised by JokerOutSubs members! We hope you liked it boys! 

NACE DEJ MI TIČA:

Another slightly odd translation from the London era. This means, ‘Nace, give me your cock’, and was said by Bojan! We made sure to check thoroughly before posting this out to the fanbase!

Uno reverse card:

One of our favourite moments from the See You Soon tour was seeing the entire band sing Umazane misli, as Bojan was tricked with UNO reverse cards by our founder, Anja! You can watch the whole thing here

Gate trga:

In a Val 202 interview in August 2023, Bojan decided to use a piece of Slovene slang, ‘gate trga’, which literally means ‘ripping underwear’, to describe what Martin is up to these days. Cue confusion in all our non-Slovene teams!!! This is a prime example of how difficult slang is to translate, and has become a go to comment for our members when the boys use slang words: “It's another ‘gate trga’ moment!” We translated it as ‘kicking ass’, and you can read the original article here

Sixth layer: 

‘NO’: 

One of our favourite memes to come from our original content - Bojan holding the ‘no’ paddle in Padova looking extremely indignant at the idea of sweatpants in public being a fashion crime. We call him Nojan and we love it! Check out our Padova interview games at 13:10

Only BoMartin hug video:

A fan favourite moment from Stožice was the hug Bojan and Martin shared after he appeared onstage for Kot srce ki kri poganja. It was an incredibly sweet moment, that was captured by the JOS livestream but cut out of the official Stožice documentary! Now it only exists in our saved livestream on Instagram! 

‘You are and are amazing’: 

These were Bojan’s sweet words at the end of our interview in Tampere. It’s at 15:12.

‘Was some AI included?’:

The day of our first interview with Joker Out was also the release date of SSOL. For the occasion, we translated the song in 15 languages! Kris asked if we had done the translations using some AI - but we would NEVER at JokerOutSubs! You can check it out here from 0:31.

RTVSLO notice:

While in Helsinki during the See You Soon tour, one of our members recorded the first playout of Šta bih ja and Bluza and sent the videos straight to our discord server for translation, and they were posted up for everyone to enjoy overnight. We were so happy to see Joker Out themselves mentioned this in their press release about the songs, including the one to RTVSLO!! 

Bojan’s fish hat:

Just some fun JokerOutSubs lore, but the now famous Women want me, fish fear me hat was gifted to Bojan by one of our members during the soundcheck in Milano! He posted a picture right after receiving it. We love to see!

Seventh layer:

‘You don’t love me??’:

In our London interview, we asked Jan and Nace why they chose to do their Damon Baker shoot together, and Jan quite beautifully explained Damon’s vision of a portrayal of non romantic intimacy. Bojan then had to make a joke. You can watch the moment here at 46:43.

Bunda:

We love a good mistranslation here at JokerOutSubs, and many British fans were left confused when the boys posted that Kiki had lost his ‘bunda’ (coat), as it has a very different meaning in the UK! We discussed it in our fan interviews in London for episode 2 of Queue and A! Check it out here at 11:12!

Stolen Joker Rangers meme:

On March 9th, we posted the trailer to our new translation, which was a collaboration with the radio RadioAKTIVNO. For the trailer we used a moment in the interview where the boys talked about which Power Ranger they would be. Of course, we had to make an edit worth of Joker Out!

The very next day, Joker Out posted a picture of themselves as Power Rangers to promote their gig in Kraków. 

A funny coincidence? Maybe. Of course, we had to remark on it!

Demoni karaoke:

During their gig in Helsinki in September, one of our Finnish members sang a Demoni karaoke! You can watch the video from 7:50 here. Way to go!

JokerOutSubs’ biggest fan Nace and second biggest fan Häärijä: 

We can count many important milestones during our first year of life, but nothing beats the moment Häärijä, and later Nace, started following us! Thank you for acknowledging our work!

As a result, we joke that they are our biggest fans. But is it really a joke?? 🤔

Umazane misli in Japanese:

Another amazing karaoke done by one of our amazing members, this time it was Umazane misli in Japanese during the gig in Ljubljana last December. How cool is that?? We posted a video of that on our IG with Japanese subtitles.

Eighth layer:

Wet towel removal and wonky flag tying: 

Our members who interviewed the boys in Padova gave the room a spruce up before recording, including the removal of a pile of wet towels and tying up a very wonky JokerOutSubs flag. We had to credit Anja for this hugely important piece of work, so we snuck some silly credits in at the end of the interview! 

Do solzice: 

When we read a message to the boys at the end of our London interview to explain the impact they’ve had on Slovenian fans, we were all quite emotional! Bojan later posted the message with the caption ‘Tole je bilo pa do solzice’ - ‘This one was a tear jerker’. For us too, Bojan! You can watch the moment here at 56:37.

'Che c***o! (in serbo)': 

We were super happy to see the band post about all the translations we did for the Carpe Diem series, but our Italian team had a giggle that THIS was the screenshot they chose to highlight the new Italian subtitles - this translates to ‘What the fuck? (in Serbian)’.

Furious native English speakers: 

Our native English review is a hugely important part of our process, partly because there’s some things that are consistently mistranslated. Here’s a few that have become iconic within JokerOutSubs for the sheer number of corrections. 

Neki - it’s not ‘some’, it’s 'some kind of'

Dejmo en aplavz - not ‘give an applause’, it’s ’give a ROUND of applause’ 

po eni strani - not ‘on one hand’ but ‘on THE one hand’!

JOS Twitch stream: 

Only the OG’s will know! In the earliest days of JokerOutSubs, we actually streamed a few shows on twitch, where our team was working as fast as possible to live translate in the chat for all the international fans who were watching! The devil works hard but JOS works harder!!

We hope you’ve enjoyed seeing a sneak peek at some of our history, lore, favourite moments and behind the scenes here at JokerOutSubs in honour of our anniversary! Here’s to many more years of translating for you wonderful Baby Boos!

[jasontodd-artemisgrace4life]

BATFAM

Ashes and armour

short story

Book Bio:

In Ashes and Armour , the Bat family finds themselves battling not only Gotham’s darkest criminals but the wounds that lie within. Scarred by years of pain, betrayal, and relentless sacrifice, Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, and Barbara struggle to hold together the only family they’ve ever known. But as they confront each other and their own shadows, each must face a truth that cuts deeper than any enemy: not all scars heal, and sometimes, the greatest battles are fought within. In a city where darkness is endless, can they still find light in each other, or are they doomed to fall apart?

Warnings:

This story contains themes of trauma, mental health struggles, violence, complex family dynamics, and emotional distress. Intended for mature readers who are prepared for dark and introspective explorations of pain, loyalty, and the impact of unresolved wounds.

PLAY LIST

The city breathed with a darkness that settled over every building, every alley, every echoing footstep. Gotham was always shrouded, but tonight it felt deeper, as if the city itself mourned. Rain splashed down, casting twisted reflections of the city’s shadows on every surface.

Chapter 1: Silence in the Shadows

Tim Drake was the first to notice something was wrong. A dark, uncomfortable quiet had begun to nestle into their little family. It was subtle—the way Bruce would stare out the window longer, how Jason’s fists would clench at the slightest provocation, how Damian would train in the dead of night until he couldn’t move. Even Dick, their rock, had started to falter.

Their home, Wayne Manor, felt like it was collapsing inward. And the city’s crime sprees hadn’t stopped, forcing each of them to spend longer hours out in the streets, dealing with people whose pain mirrored their own.

Tim slid out of the Manor one night, making his way to an abandoned warehouse near the Narrows. It was a meeting spot he’d used with Jason once, when he’d been younger and more naïve about his place in the family. He needed to talk to him now, but the place was empty. Jason didn’t show up.

It wasn’t until later, when Tim returned to the cave and saw the file on the Batcomputer, that he realized why. Jason had been digging into a new wave of crimes in the city—ones that were hitting closer to home. He’d discovered that Joker had broken out, leaving a trail of messages for each member of the Bat family, but only Tim knew.

Chapter 2: Jagged Edges

Bruce stood in front of the Batcomputer, hands curled into tight fists as he stared at the image of Jason, crumpled in an alley with a spray-painted message on the wall behind him: One family, one failure.

Jason had survived Joker once; he wasn’t supposed to endure this again. It was cruel. An endless cycle. And Bruce’s guilt wrapped itself around his chest, suffocating him. He had taken them all in, one by one, but he couldn’t save them from the war they fought every night.

Damian approached silently, fists clenched, and Bruce noticed how small his son’s shoulders looked beneath his growing strength. “Father,” Damian whispered, a tremor slipping through his voice. “Why can’t we protect each other?”

Bruce didn’t answer. He had no answer. There were too many enemies, too many secrets, too much pain. Every wound Jason bore was etched onto Bruce’s own soul. But the worst part was knowing he couldn’t fix it, not really. Not with all the money or the strength in the world.

Chapter 3: Cracks in the Armor

Dick arrived back at the Manor in the early hours of the morning. He was soaked, his costume clinging to him, blood staining his chest. It was his own, though he barely felt it.

“Bruce,” he managed, eyes hollow. “It’s happening again, isn’t it?”

Bruce nodded, and Dick swallowed back a feeling he hadn’t felt since he was a child. That desperate need to be held, to be told that everything would be okay. But he knew better now. This was Gotham. Happy endings didn’t exist here.

“Jason won’t answer my calls,” Dick muttered, and he hated how vulnerable he sounded. “He’s angry. He thinks we left him alone. But… how do I tell him we didn’t?”

Bruce met his gaze, his own eyes dark, weighed down with the crushing realization of every single failure, every scar and bruise. He wanted to speak, to reassure Dick, but the words got lost somewhere between his thoughts and his lips. How could he promise safety, when he knew it was a lie?

Chapter 4: Cut Deep

When Tim finally found Jason, he was bruised and bloody, leaning against the wall of a rundown building in Crime Alley. The message Joker had left for him was etched deep into his mind. Family only hurts you.

Jason looked up as Tim approached, eyes dark and full of anger. “You came.”

“Of course, I came,” Tim replied softly, stepping forward, unsure if Jason would let him near. The brothers were close, but tonight Jason felt like a stranger, his pain so visible it was raw.

Jason laughed bitterly, his voice cutting through the silence. “You think this family’s worth anything, Tim? It’s all scars and pain, and we just keep trying to fix it with more cuts and bruises. Like we can bleed the hurt out. But it just makes it worse.”

“I know,” Tim whispered, his own voice shaking. “But you’re my brother. That means something to me. We can’t undo the pain, but we don’t have to face it alone.”

Jason closed his eyes, breathing in the cold night air, as the anger faded, leaving behind only the hollow ache of years of loss. He didn’t push Tim away when he reached out, instead letting his brother pull him up, and together they walked out of the shadows.

Chapter 5: Bruises We Can’t Heal

Back at the cave, Bruce gathered them all—Jason, Dick, Tim, Damian, and Barbara—each bearing their own wounds, their own fractured trust. The atmosphere was tense, heavy with the weight of unsaid words.

Bruce cleared his throat, feeling a rare vulnerability as he spoke. “I know I’ve let you down. I’ve taken you into my fight, and it has cost you all.”

Dick was the first to speak, his voice low but steady. “We chose to stand with you, Bruce. We’ve all made choices. But maybe it’s time we face the truth. We keep bleeding, and we keep pretending it’ll heal.”

Bruce’s gaze dropped, and he could feel his heart breaking. For a man as emotionally guarded as Bruce Wayne, this was as raw as he could bear. His family, the only ones he’d ever let close, stood before him, and he saw every bruise he’d left on them, every scar.

Damian took a step forward, defiant but vulnerable. “We’re family,” he said, his voice unwavering. “It doesn’t mean we don’t get hurt. It means we’re in it together.”

The Bat family shared a look, each of them seeing their pain reflected back at them. They were broken, bruised, scarred, but still there. Still holding each other up, in whatever way they could.

Epilogue: Healing the Wounds

In the months that followed, they would each fight their own battles, and their wounds would heal slowly, some never fully. But they would be there, side by side, enduring together.

For in Gotham, pain was inevitable. But in each other, they found a way to survive.

[unmask-strange-aeons]

I would like for everyone to remember that I call strange aeons, being the muppet joker the ultimate Tumblr fake story, and it's very simular to this:

What does this mean strange???

It's a diversion! So that she can say look at this, this is the greatest tumblr fake story to ever be told so that we don't look at her and find the truth.

Strange Aeons is the Muppet Joker, pass it on.

[thealmightyemprex]

So I have some Comic compilations from the 80s and 90s callled The Greatest Stories Ever Told

Which one should I read first

Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told

Greatest Superman Stories Ever Tol

Greatest Golden Age Stories ever told

Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told

@ariel-seagull-wings @angelixgutz @amalthea9 @minimumheadroom @princesssarisa @professorlehnsherr-almashy @the-blue-fairie @themousefromfantasyland

[liulans]

Teeny tiny Wangxian AU drabble for Wei Wuxian's birthday 🎂 🥳 🥰

rating: G / w/c: 1724 / lots of fluff 🤍

————

Lan Wangji has been told that he isn't particularly friendly, by several people, in fact. That is fine — he's incredibly picky with who he spends his time with; where he expends his social energy. He's not particularly interested in gaining new friends. Acquaintances, perhaps, kept firmly at arm's length.

But if he is not friendly, somebody should probably explain what he has done so right to wind up with, single-handedly, the greatest best friend anybody could ever ask for. His best friend, sitting on his couch, wearing his pyjamas, while deliberating over matching Halloween costumes.

"Hey, Lan Zhan," Wei Wuxian says, eyes glazed over with something pleasant, the light of his phone pailing next to the bright of his eyes. "What about Joker and Harley Quinn?—actually, no, that's a toxic dynamic. We could do, like, Barbie and Ken?—like, that rollerblading scene? Actually, I can't rollerblade and you'd have to carry me everywhere."

"Mn," Lan Wangji says, just to show he's listening. These ideas are fine, but there's a certain difficulty in picking out costumes on the actual day. And that's without mentioning that he's aware Wei Wuxian is skirting around another separate topic here.

They wind up opting for cutting eye-holes into some of Lan Wangji's old bedsheets. To draw little mouths onto them. Wei Wuxian's is adorned with a big, happy smile, while Lan Wangji's is more of a straight line.

"This is so cute. You're so cute, Lan Zhan." Wei Wuxian had said, and so, that was that.

They have something of a tradition every year. First of all, they'll head out to dinner, wherein Wei Wuxian will make up some elaborate story about how they're 'celebrating their wedding anniversary', usually because that gets them a free bottle of cheap wine — a couple of extra side dishes for Lan Wangji.

And then Lan Wangji will find a time to tack on the fact that it is, in fact, also Wei Wuxian's birthday, much to Wei Wuxian’s protest. But that will earn them a free slice of cake to share, so who's winning here?

Today, they've opted to go to some Sichuanese restaurant, because Wei Wuxian is a maverick who loves spice — and he's lovely enough to spend five minutes scraping the sauce from Lan Wangji's mapo tofu. It is still a little too spicy for his tastes, but Wei Wuxian uses the remaining spicy sauce as a dipping condiment, and that smile on his face is all that matters, really.

He does, in fact, get his free bottle of wine, not quite the bottom of the barrel, but the next one up in the weirdly determined hierarchy of fermented beverages. He gets a free slice of cake, too, and much to his embarrassment, ends up with the dining room staring at him, singing Happy Birthday.

He shoots Lan Wangji a look that perhaps says something vaguely threatening like 'wait until it's your birthday'. But when the room stumbles over his name mid-song ("happy birthday dear…uh, you…"), the vibrant fit of laughter he twists into is more than worth it.

"I hope everything was to your liking," the waiter says, stacking empty plates and bowls strategically atop his arm. "I hope we have made this day special for the two of you."

Wei Wuxian smiles, something big and shining. "It's perfect. We'll come back here on his birthday, right sweetie?" Lan Wangji blanches. They do this every year — it is tradition, and yet, he doesn't think he'll ever be used to that. "Hold a table aside for us for January. We're gonna have to blow his mind."

"I see." The waiter has a kind smile, even as his gaze flickers between them. "Don't worry, just call ahead of time and we'll keep a table for you. And may I just say, the two of you make a lovely couple. Oh, to be young and in love again. I see the way you two look at each other."

"Oh," says Wei Wuxian. Lan Wangji will dissolve right here, right in this seat. He will dissolve into the ground and let earth's crust break and swallow him up. "Ha ha haha. Yeah, we've known each other a long time. It was inevitable, y'know?"

"Ah, inevitable lovers. And on your birthday, no less. You've got yourself a romantic, young man."

"Ahah, yeah," Wei Wuxian casts Lan Wangji an apologetic gaze that lingers just a little too long. "He really is. He's the best."

The best. Lan Wangji has heard that many times. It often drips from Wei Wuxian's tongue, prompted by any manner of actions that Lan Wangji would deem to be wholly normal, instinctive, even. Picking Wei Wuxian up from work, holding a blanket around his shoulders when the cold hits, diligently holding his hand at fancy restaurants to get that free wine.

It is good, he thinks, to be someone who Wei Wuxian considers to be 'the best'. An honourable feat indeed.

"Lan Zhan." Wei Wuxian's eyes are glimmering, grey painted pink by the sunset. He suits golden hour very well. "Mind holding the bag a little while? You're better at maintaining the integrity of take-out boxes."

Lan Wangji, of course, agrees. And if it's because he wants to watch a very giddy Wei Wuxian shuck a bed sheet over his head and proceed to bounce in place, making all sorts of silly "boooo" sounds— well, that's for Lan Wangji to think about.

Wei Wuxian is tentative as he drapes the other sheet over Lan Wangji's body. He's comically stiff, and Wei Wuxian laughs about it, bright and airy.

Their hands find each other again. And then they're walking out into the rapidly darkening evening, joining the hoards of haphazardly costumed passers-by.

"Hey," Wei Wuxian says after a while. It feels as though they've walked the whole block, just talking, occasionally pausing to paw at a bit of cake. Lan Wangji dips beneath Wei Wuxian's sheet to press a small slab of icing to his lips. "Thank you for doing this. Like, every year. It's a big act to keep up with, but you pretend we're married, and you're so convincing about it."

"It is your birthday," Lan Wangji replies, as though that much is obvious. He's a little muffled beneath the sheet. "It is no hardship for me." I love you, is what he means. "I know. That you do not enjoy your birthday. So I hope— that this is enjoyable regardless."

He's stared at for a long moment, Wei Wuxian's gaze flitting over his face. Lan Wangji is very aware of himself; how it's been so many years, and his expression must be growing easier to read. "It's always enjoyable. Like, we're just hanging out, and it's still the most fun."

"Wei Ying, it is your birthday. I wish to celebrate you."

That makes Wei Wuxian falter, just a little bit. They have this conversation at least once a year. "I know. You're too good, you know? Wait—it's hard to be real with you when we're dressed like this. But like, seriously—"

He's cut off by the sound of fireworks, rising and bursting overhead. He swings around, utterly engrossed in the millions of trickles of colour shooting across the sky. Lan Wangji can only stare at him.

The both of them lift up their bedsheets, half draped over their heads, practically capes now.

And because Wei Wuxian looks so happy, is rendered so silent, Lan Wangji - without thinking one bit - swings forward. Whispers softly. "Happy birthday, Wei Ying."

He isn't sure Wei Wuxian hears it at first, but then the palm flush against his own adjusts, fingers intertwining instead. Wei Wuxian is gazing over his face then, flickering down and up. Down again; up again.

"I'm—gonna kiss you, okay?" He says, looking smaller. "Lan Zhan, you're gonna have to say no quickly if you don't want—"

Lan Wangji surges forwards, in spite of himself. Their hands part only to allow their arms to circle into an embrace. Wei Wuxian's mouth is soft, and it's so easy to sink into it. So easy to forget the sounds of people cheering, their oohs and ahhs; the intermittent pop of fireworks scattering across the sky. It's so, so easy.

They kiss like that for a while, bodies slowly swaying side to side, as though listening to some far-off music, somewhere. But then Wei Wuxian is smiling — Lan Wangji feels the curve of his mouth before he feels the teeth that follow. And when he opens his eyes, the sight before him is so bright, so colourful, so much more even than the sky.

"Lan Zhan. Lan Wangji." Wei Wuxian says that, and nothing else. His eyes are scrunched into delightful crescents, his lips pink. They look like messes, both of them, with their costumes strewn so carelessly over their backs.

Lan Wangji repeats, just to make it known. "Happy birthday. Wei Ying. I hope that you have felt celebrated today. Wanted."

"Are you kidding me? Every year my birthday is the best, better than everyone else's. Because you're a massive sap and you're so good. So good. I— Lan Zhan, let's go home, okay? Let's watch a movie or something. Oh! And let's kiss some more? That was good, you are really good."

Lan Wangji finds his mouth again, a chaste press of lips. It's chilly with the cold, but he feels so warm inside. But then, he nods. "Wei Ying can have anything he wants."

"Best birthday ever." Wei Wuxian whispers to himself. Lan Wangji secretly starts making notes to make next year even better.

And little does Wei Wuxian know that when they get back, there's even more cake waiting for him. A delivery of brushes, inks, and paper he'd mentioned he'd wanted in passing. A big jar of aged wine hidden in the closet. A ticket to redeem a visit to the zoo.

Lan Wangji will add a spare set of keys to that list. Wei Wuxian practically spends all his time there anyway. Maybe next year, he'll propose. If this all goes well.

(It does. He proposes next year. Married the year after that. Wei Wuxian deserves to remember his birthday as a day of celebration.

Those dinners they share each year are genuine after that. Happy Birthday, Wei Ying. Happy anniversary, Wei Ying. I love you, Wei Ying.)

[hattafan2593]

Rewrite of Arkham Knight's (comic) Origin Story

So you know how the Arkham Knight in the comics is Jeremiah Arkham's daughter? And you know how complete dogshit her origin story is? Here's my version:

After the death of Jeremiah's wife, he kept his daughter in the lowest levels of Arkham Asylum out of fear for her safety. However, he was very neglectful towards his only child, having orderlies tend to her needs and otherwise leaving her alone for long periods of time.

As Astrid got older, she became curious about the upper levels of the asylum and the outside world and started sneaking out to explore. She met various patients and workers, and learned how they came to be there. Eventually she came across the members of the Rogues Gallery. And the Rogues, for reasons that varied from one to another, took the child under their wing. Not all of them - some tried to harm the child for her connection to her father, but the others managed to protect her. The biggest surprise was the Joker - it was no secret that her father utterly despised him, and he didn't exactly have any scruples about harming children. But when asked, he would just smile and laugh, like he just heard the funniest joke. Through the Rogues, she learned many things about the world - or at least, their perspective of it. And most important, she learned about Batman. The Dark Knight. Gotham's City's masked hero and guardian. Some spoke of him with hatred and vitriol, others with fevered obsession, and some with wistfulness, dare I say, fondness. Her father, though? To him, Batman may as well have been the devil incarnate. Apparently, he blamed the Caped Crusader for the death of her mother and, well, pretty much everything else wrong with Gotham. When Astrid tried to probe further, in one of the few conversations she managed to engage him in, he sternly told her to drop it.

Now, the thing is, Astrid, sheltered as she was, was not stupid. Far from it. She was her father's daughter, after all. And after years of being raised and taught by some of the greatest manipulators and masterminds in Gotham, she had learned how to tell when someone was lying, or at least not telling the whole truth.

She went snooping around and eventually came across a series security tapes of the day her mother died. Her heavily pregnant mother, who was in the cafeteria in the middle of a riot, and who she witnessed be violently assaulted by an inmate before going into labor on the floor. As her mother was carried to the nurse's office by orderlies, Astrid scanned the footage for any sign of the Batman and... she found none. He had not been in the cafeteria that day. Nor in the nurse's office, where her mother gave birth to a tiny, pale Astrid, before dying with her baby in her arms. In fact, as far as she could see, he had not been at Arkham at all. With this in mind, she concluded that her father had lied... either to her or himself.

And as for the Batman himself? Well she wouldn't meet him in person until years later, as a young adult. She did, however, come across Robin who, thinking she was a visiting relative of a patient, greeted her civilly. Before he could leave, she asked, curious. "Hey. Why do you...do what you do?"

Robin could have said anything to that. "Because it's the right thing to do." "Because no one else will." Instead, he merely shrugged and said, "Just trying to make Gotham a little better than I found it." And then he turned and left.

That...resonated with Astrid. She thought about those words later in her room. Batman and Robin must live in Gotham, right? It's their home. So of course they would want their home to be livable, to be safe. For Astrid, Arkham Asylum was a prison. A gilded cage, but a cage nonetheless. But even so, it was her home, the only home she had ever known. Did she not deserve to have her home as safe and comfortable as possible? She thought of the patients, of their pain and suffering, both external and internal, of the conditions they were being kept in. She thought of the guards and orderlies, who dealt with so much disrespect and vitriol, from the patients and higher-ups and each other with so little pay. She thought of the doctors, who had all but given up on actually treating their patients from lack of funds, proper equipment and just overall help, and were just trying to earn a paycheck and make sure they live another day. She thought of her father, who surely must know that all of this was going on... and was just letting it all happen.

She thought of the Rogues, this group of men and women who raised her and treated her as one of their own. The closest thing to family she ever had. Oh, they weren't saints. Astrid knew that they had all done terrible things, unforgivable things. But she loved them all the same. And Arkham was their home too, was it not? Did they not deserve to be safe and comfortable in their own home? Did they not deserve better?

... Yes, Astrid decided. They did deserve better. She deserved better. And if her father, or Batman, or the city wasn't going to give them what they deserved, then she would. No matter how long it took, no matter what she had to do, she would become Arkham's Knight. She would become a guardian of the asylum and all within and do everything she could to make Arkham the shining castle it was meant to be, the utopia her people deserved.

[tehamelie]

The greatest Joker story ever told

comic

[brettsinger]

DCeased and More - Will Spottedbear

My guest this week is comedian Will Spottedbear! How old was Will when he first read The Killing Joke? When did Doctor Octopus beat up everybody? What impressed Brett the first time he read a Marvel comic? What did Brett like about Marvel Team-Up and What If? What happened in the first Marvel Zombies comic? What do they do on The Simpsons with the Homer Meets Marge story? What's the deal with The Ultimates? What was Hawkeye originally and what was her in Ultimates? How was Ultimate Tony Stark different from original Tony Stark? How was Thor different? Who is The Tumbler? How are comics like singing in your car? Does the current generation know who Plastic Man is? Do people know who Monica Rambeau is? Why was it OK that they brought Bucky back to life? How long was Colossus dead? Who should they not bring back to life? Do fans of the movies read the comics? When did the Punisher have three series at the same time? 

Reading List The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told https://amzn.to/3mw3w9e

The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told https://amzn.to/3l2yfug

Batman: The Killing Joke https://amzn.to/3ZBHdxG

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What If...? https://amzn.to/3T2ohWc

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Recorded 3-4-23 via Zencastr

Check out Comics Who Love Comic Books!

[holy-shit-comics]

[frankendykes-monster]

There's a degree of eyebrow raising I do when someone suggests the adaptability of Batman to different types of stories because more often than not they're referring to a range of light to dark stories, or if we're being more realistic, material that is palatable to a child or adult audience. I routinely think back to, I think this was in the introduction to The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told, that Batman fans' "that's not MY Batman" reaction to the 1966 television series was not one of scorn at the series itself for poorly representing Batman, the show was a pretty faithful adaptation of the material it was working with; the issue was it "exposed" Batman for how silly he truly is, and audiences proportionally did not take it seriously. And why should they? Speaking from personal experience, do you know the uphill battle it is to get people to recognize the detective-scientist-ninja that dresses like Dracula and rides around in a rocket car as a subject of literary/critical analysis? It's hard enough with one person, the majority of mainstream audiences is another.

(As an aside, "dark" for Batman is almost always relative. You know the video game, Batman: Arkham Asylum? It culminates with the Joker mutating into a giant bone monster and Batman punching him with bombs.)

Anyhow, adaptability with Batman is precarious because of how many moving parts you have to maintain. I remember Paul Dini and Alex Ross' Batman: War on Crime wanted to maintain a "low tech" Batman so no Batmobile or Batcomputer, which is, whatever I guess, but then you get to more precarious stuff like Bruce being scared and Bruce being ungrateful in Batman Begins (2005) and Batman: The Brave and The Bold respectively being the driving incidents for why Bruce's parents walked down Crime Alley and were subsequently shot. I'm not sure what the impetus for wanting Batman to be Spider-Man comes from but it's weird when it crops up.

Which, getting to The Jurassic League specifically, brings us to the first fight between Batsaur and Jokerzard, and, namely, the incident I mentioned in the original post:

Glen Wheldon, author of The Caped Crusade, mentions that the one failing of Batman: The Animated Series as a depiction of the character is the starting of the famous chant with "I am Vengeance." I.e. vengeance is not Batman's motivation (I'm not sure why people want Batman to be The Punisher and blah blah blah you know the drill). Which, when you go up against the most beloved piece of Batman media out there as "didn't get it 100% right", you kind of sound like a nutcase, which, I feel for Wheldon given I've also made statements like that about The Animated Series but moving along.

Adaptability is a strange thing because, I'm not gonna lie and say making Batman an Allosaurus isn't something I didn't know I wanted my entire life but now I have, but the mechanisms under the hood are sputtering, making Batsaur a version of the character that wants revenge rather than wanting to prevent similar tragedies from happening to anyone else. Making Jokerzard the murderer of Batsaur's parents doesn't help mitigate this because now Batsaur has a target of revenge he can go after (which is what drives Batsaur for the majority of the mini-series). It's a very peculiar interpretation (my generous way of saying you're getting the character wrong) for a comic that I'd say by and large is pretty fucking awesome and worthy of a possible animated feature.

Reading The Jurassic League and while I should be upset at them doing the "Joker killed Batman's parents and Batman wants revenge" thing I'm actually cognizant that I'm taking the semi-comedic exercise of a Justice League comic where everyone is a dinosaur too seriously. Engaging with the comic on its own terms however, why is Batman not a Triceratops, the horns would fit right under the bat ears.

[dailycass-cain]

How do you take a minority character in Cassandra Cain, who had an ongoing series that lasted over seventy issues, was part of the core cast at the time, downgrade them from an "A-list" (to me she was) hero to D level, and her importance gone? DC Comics found a way. Tonight let's talk about it.

(2022 me: I wrote these series of tweets back in 2020. Originally, I posted my original essay of this in five parts waaaay back in 2015. Here’s part 1). 

Like many things, it wasn't just a singular major cut but several ones, and lots of smaller ones that ousted the character from said position, and probably ran the fandom for the character to other places.

The first big cut is THE story of Batman in the early 2000s, Hush. Many people's "go to" or favorite story for Batman universe. Why? because it features almost every single Bat-Family and major rogues at the time appeared in it. Save for Bane and-- Batgirl.

For Bane it's quite understandable, he was in a story at Gotham Knights at the time. So his story was "being played" out elsewhere. Cass however, the story is notorious for excluding her. I believe even to this day because of the lack of appearance is a key reason why we're here.

Everything "birthed" from Hush has ruled the Batman comics roost for years since it's publication. You might say even to this day, Batman comics cannot escape the shadow of the story or some of the bad characterization within it (2022 note: Oh how right I was back in 2020 when I wrote all of this. We’ve gotten yet another addition of this story, a new omnibus, published this year with a new five page story from the same creative team). 

Key among them is this mythical level that the story puts Babs' time as Batgirl. It along with the Tommy and Jason portions are given Bruce's justification for wanting to kill the Joker in it.

There is this thing. This myth that Barbara was the greatest Batgirl ever because simply, she was the one who was in  live-action. The one in Batman: The Animated Series. That she should still be Batgirl was played out by writers during this period.

As I said earlier today she was given this chance. Where as Cassandra never really has ever been given a chance save for cameos and some really bad video games. But even then, Tim was in those too? Yet how did he get a pass but Cass did not?

There also lies a rather confession from now former publisher at DC for his distain for legacy characters. How they "age" characters up. I believe this also pertains why Barbara is always Batgirl as well. Since it ages her and Bruce up.

.The irony is, we always get the Robins (save poor Stephanie) in media too. So it's rather-- hypocritical and kind of sexist really that all the boys get their time in the spotlight but the gals do not? Why is that? This myth for Babs as Batgirl and viewpoint on legacies already puts a great hinder on Cassandra as a character.  You already have factors going against the character. But wait there's more.

There-in lies the second big cut. A great famous comic writer once told me on a forum, if he didn't like a character he'd just ignore them. Better ignore than write them badly. This sort of thing does make sense but-- in Cassandra's case for one writer it was taken to an extreme.

After War Games event in 2004 does anyone want to play a guess how many times Cassandra appeared in the mainline Batman comics to the end of her ongoing in 2009?

The answer isn't much, just a handful. Not to mention the love affair over returning Jason as well was all over the place. Jason this and Jason that. A fact that this was so metaly pointed out in Batgirl Vol. 2 #1.

There-in lies a revelation tonight I had. I always wondered why the writer of Batgirl Vol. 2 wrote Nightwing so awful in it. Then it hit me across the face tonight: the book's writer at the time. The thing from 2006 to even now there's been an editor/writer who kind of obviously doesn't like the character of Cassandra. In fact his own contribution to this happened in Nightwing as Batgirl Vol. 2 was ending. The whole "family" subplot throughout his entire Batman run.

There in lies the second major cut, the ending of Cassandra's ongoing. Why was it canceled? Not due to sales. Other comics that survived/relaunched into OYL were selling worse than Batgirl. No it was canceled to make room for a Batwoman ongoing.

A Batwoman ongoing (by Devin Grayson) that would never see the light of day. The inker of #73 confirmed this because I guess one female Bat comic was one too many for that day and age. Oh, the sexism was high at DC.

Of course, the third major cut came not too long after. Turning Cassandra into a "dragon lady" villain.

So you take everything fans loved and adored the character. And take it into the trash to give us the worst stereotypical character ever. Worse, is the aftermath following in Robin #152.

Why is it worse? Because it downplays Cassandra's importance in the family to now being a "sad troubled" girl. .....

Fans didn't take well to this all at all during the time period. Cue this article from Wizard #182 (which came out October 2006) when fans were ticked and higher ups threw the Robin writer under the bus at conventions.

And that would come in Titans East over in Teen Titans in early 2007 where we get this crazy retcon to explain it all.

With some extra padding in some oneshots of 52 to show, "Hey Cass did good things in the missing year. Things we'll never see." Aka devaluing her story unlike say Tim who we got to see the complete tale of him at the time.

Back to Titans East, throughout the story neither Tim/Dick help Cass in her problems they instead hinder her more after learning the truth. Thankfully for Tim that characterization would later be course corrected. Dick-- not so much.

So DC said they had "plans" for Cassandra. After East we were teased things in Black Canary mini in the summer of 2007 that Cass had feld from her sect of the League of Assasins.

And as I let you all know here. Well, we all know where Cassandra ended up, as a supporting character in Batman & the Outsiders.

But this in line also ties into DC Nation blurbs where we were teased in Batman & the Outsiders #3 we would be getting a new mini for Cass.

So interesting to note during this period as you know Chuck Dixon was writing Batman & the Outsiders. He really laid out his plans for both this and Robin on podcasts (and one issue of Robin slipped into solicitations). 

When I personally attended the Wizardworld Chicago 2009, Dan DiDio said at the DC panel when the subject of why  eventual writer for Batgirl Vol. 2, Adam Beechen was person writing this comic. DiDio answered by saying Beechen was the only creative at DC giving him pitches on Cass. 

Turns out, DiDio lied as prior to that year in December 2008, Dixon went on the Word Balloon podcast and talked about a “filler” issue of Detective Comics that could include Cassandra Cain.

Of course, as we got said mini with one hand, on the other hand several Bat Family comics were winding down. Those included Robin, Nightwing, and Birds of Prey. And as #6 was closing things out so this was being teased in the final issue of Nightwing.

That is so not Cass, but Barbara as Batgirl kissing Dick in his current Nightwing costume. The heck? Well, at it turns out (as we later learn). Higher ups already were planning Cassandra's ousting from Batgirl even though they gave us a mini. So DC giveth and DC taketh away.

However, prelim hype around the book teased Cass would be Batgirl going in. Note the bulletin board on who was listed as Batgirl (courtesy of IGN, but here’s the Multiversity article on it). 

Of course, DC didn’t know WHO was going to Batgirl even at the time this article was posted as they were debating all over the place at this point. Much so in fact it made it to another DC Nation (after Stephanie was chosen):

"2010 will have big plans for our favorite non-lethal assassin".

Yes, we did get Cass in 2010 but just in Red Robin #17. Such a "big plan" that was. A single appearance.  Well, okay we did get the retcon on why Cass wasn't Batgirl any longer too. But there wasn't much at all.

So you have DC downplaying the character. And then you get Black Bat.

But as I said before a few days ago, any importance of Cassandra that was coming from the new Batman writer was short-lived as the New 52 rolled out fully on Babs back as Batgirl.  Many got their wish (higher ups included) Babs was back as Batgirl.  The "myth" was a reality again.

At the very least, Stephanie got one final adventure as Batgirl even if, plans were in place to make her Spoiler just in case her as Batgirl wasn't allowed.

What followed was an agonizing three years of DC downplaying the two characters completely. Why you ask? The easiest answer: jealousy and sexism. Look at how loyal we fans of the two characters are.  What if that love was directed at them instead of Babs.

I guess you could say now "two" female Bats were okay, but FOUR?! FOUR iS SIMPLY OUTRAGOUS!!!!

Course the controversy would be a embargo of the two characters by DC. Embargo that hit Stephanie more with the online Smallville comic and Lil Gotham.

I'm also reminded the mindset of DC higher ups at the time period post Battle for the Cowl as we recently learned from the SDCC: Batgirls panel (2020): Higher Ups: "Cassandra leaves." Writer: "WHY?!" Higher Ups: "Cause she just does-- so your book can exist."

Suddenly this begins to explain Lady Shiva and the lack of Cassandra Cain in Batman: Hush now.

That's the cruel mindset DC higher ups had with Cassandra and eventually Stephanie. So when you say, not to give either character a chance. This is what people you're defending.

So you add ALL OF THAT, four years is quite a long time. A long time for fans to move on or just forget DC Comics. But we Cass/Steph fans persisted. Better we did get them in 2014 even if it was an alternate reality (and Gail's final issue).

BUT... Cass in the main universe?  Yeah, Stephanie can be slotted in because she has the Spoiler identity to fall onto. But Cass? She was Batgirl. So what do you do when you have a Batgirl, but can't use Cass?

Simply you just create a new identity, Orphan. But by not making her Batgirl you take away three key things away from the character. #1 Who she's truly loyal toward.

#2 Who mentors her.

#3 Where she is in the Family order. By including Babs as the new "daughter" figure in Bruce's life. You take away Cassandra's. Why do you think a certain DC Direct statue with the family earns my ire anytime I see it? For that.

Babs is no daughter figure to Bruce, she's an equal. That's a downgrade to her role in the family. But it is rather curious two ongoings with Barbara and not a single appearance of Cass in them (so far). Makes you wonder?

So you take away Cassandra's importance in the family, you downgrade her identity, don't give her a bat symbol, take away her mentors. What does that leave you?

You wonder why. Why do I'd stick around? I mean honestly, there are probably really vocal Cass fans out there in this world still. One of whom did a retrospective multipart video earlier this year of Cass (and he comes to the EXACT same conclusions).

Because as I said quite recently, "What is the greatest lesson for Cass fans in Batman media given all the mess DC and Warner Bros. does in treating this character?

It took almost TEN YEARS to finally see Cass in her OG Batgirl suit earlier this year. Almost TEN YEARS to see a solo story which-- dammit was like the greatest gift to us. Like seriously to all those involved going thru all of this.

I really hope the creative team realizes just how special that graphic novel is to the fans. Like literally, it showed all the greatest things we love about the character. The fighting is just the added bonus. I bow and try not to cry at being so grateful to this creative team.

But this is the road we fans and the character of Cassandra Cain have to endure. So if you're wondering why we're ticked at the Gotham Knights video game (2022) not including her outright? This is our reason.

This is why I am still grateful for BoP movie. It may not have been the role I wanted to see of Cass as the damsel in distress, but goddammit we got so much Cass comic content this year because of it.  JUST FOR THAT ALONE-- I'm grateful.

That's why if any person in media can hear me. Just give Cass a chance. A short. A main role in the video game. Heck, an episode.  JUST GIVE CASSANDRA A CHANCE PLEASE! You might be surprised at what you get.

Just know that Cassandra will NEVER be a placeholder. She is Batgirl, and dammit she deserves that role and that role so BADLY.  I know Stephanie is too.

Gods I love Stephanie too. But I just always hate that DC did that to both characters. Pitting their fans against one another. It guts me. Like the lowest thing for DC to do is pit these two close friends against one another.

That's why it kills me. Part of me YEARNS for a new Cass ongoing, but goddammit Stephanie got screwed too in this. So if both get ongoing with Babs I am okay with this. Because dammit these characters need love, not freaking hatred.

DC really does owe it to both characters and their fans this. THEY REALLY OWE THEM for the hell these characters had to endure because of idiotic higher-ups who had horrible agendas and wanted to push a fast buck.

So now you know how DC did it. How they took this character who was a major fixture in the Batman comics and downplayed her SOOOOOOO much with bad storytelling and shuffling her off to be a side character.

I'm mentally exhausted worn now. I just hope you take these lessons to heart. To learn this shady stuff that DC Comics did and turned an amazing character-- to something less. How fans want more from that character again.

Update July 2021: Gail Simone’s tweet (that she deleted soon after) on this nugget of how the character of Cass was changed due to studio higher ups. 

Update September 2021:

.... 

Here I go again with an UPDATE. After all these years. Confirmation at last (even if they aren't mentioned).  We all know WHICH characters by now Dan DiDio is talking about here.

(You can read the whole interview here.)

[distort-opia]

Has Joker ever flirted with Riddler in comics? Reevesverse riddlejokes got me hyped because they seem lowkey wholesome together, but idk if there's any canon merit to that.

Well. No, and yes? It depends on how you want to look at it, I suppose.

In my eyes they're frenemies with a good amount of tension; I don't ship them, but I think they're a lot of fun to see interact. Joker doesn't always get along with his fellow villains, since he tends to be feared for his cruelty and unpredictability even by other criminals... or simply considered terribly annoying. But he seems to have a kind of villainous competition going with Riddler, at least in earlier years, for the title of Batman's greatest rival. Or rather... Riddler has it with him? Out of the two, it's Edward that seems more interested in proving his superiority, and Joker tends to dismiss him or egg him on just to get on his nerves. Joker generally really enjoys getting on people's nerves.

I ended up going through comics I remembered having more relevant Joker & Riddler interactions in a vaguely chronological manner, to get an idea of it... for my own curiosity and records as well. I'm putting the comic panels and the discussion under the cut, as always.

A relevant and relatively recent Joker & Riddler comic takes place at the end of Bruce's first year as Batman: The War of Jokes and Riddles, otherwise abbreviated as TWOJAR. Riddler realizes that Joker cannot laugh anymore, and endeavours to be the one to solve the why of it. To be the one to make him laugh.

-- Batman (2016) #25

Joker had been directing the puzzle at Batman (as usual), but then Riddler intervenes. And it... doesn't go over well. Joker shoots Riddler and then Batman pretty much leaves him for dead. Joker and Riddler then end up in a war for Gotham, each of them taking over one half of the city and recruiting different allies in a fight that's tearing Gotham apart, and that Bruce is desperate to stop. All along, Joker is not very respectful towards Edward:

-- Batman (2016) #29

In the end, it's more of a Batjokes story, tbh. It's about Joker stopping Bruce from killing Riddler, but not because he cares about Edward -- but because he doesn't want Batman to become a murderer, and thus stop being Batman. Although I guess you could argue Edward ultimately did make Joker laugh. Just not in a way he ever predicted. He pissed Bruce off so much he attempted murder (an utterly hilarious ongoing theme, Bruce seems to be deathly annoyed by Edward in particular, so many times).

But they don't seem to hold that much of a grudge, going forward :)) Such is life when you're a supervillain, I guess. Later on, somewhere around the beginning of Tim's time as Robin, Edward calls Joker first to brag about teaming up with Batman:

-- Batman: Run, Riddler, Run

They also have the same "frenemies who take shots at each other" vibe in a flashback to the earlier years:

-- Batman (2016) #90

Then they seem to be getting along in the same vein, in a story that takes place immediately after the earthquake that hit Gotham in Batman: Cataclysm:

-- Arkham Asylum: Tales of Madness

Really do recommend this little comic, it's got especially fun interactions between Joker, Riddler, Scarecrow and Killer Croc, with Joker as the ringleader (which tends to happen more often than not).

Then there's Riddler's oneshot in Joker's Asylum, a series of stories told from Joker's perspective about multiple Gotham Rogues -- which is actually pretty great and I do recommend it overall (Joker breaking the fourth wall, my beloved). We don't really get interactions between Joker and Riddler, or at least not direct ones. As Joker tells the story of Edward falling in love with a woman as with a riddle he needs to solve, and then getting depressed when he's rejected, there's one villain that shows up at his door...

-- Joker's Asylum II: The Riddler

Joker makes who the visitor was a mystery, but it's most likely him (or Riddler himself, but look, I personally think Joker was the visitor and Riddler himself tipped off the police later due to his compulsion to leave clues). And so, seeing as it's probably Joker, "Want me to snap your neck?" and "That a promise?" is really endearing to me. On the whole, it's an interesting story, since it's a window into how Joker views Riddler as much as it is a story about Edward.

Then there's this absolute gem of an interaction that takes place sometime after No Man's Land concludes:

-- Justice Leagues: Justice League of Arkham (2001)

Bruce hosing them down like two misbehaving cats is utterly hilarious. I love it. And seeing as Joker's very definition of flirting is pissing people off, I'd say that this qualifies.

[sigh] Chronologically then there's... the Hush Returns storyline from Gotham Knights #50-55, but I'm pretty sure it isn't canon. If it was, Joker's name and history should've been known to everyone a long time ago -- and it wasn't, clearly. Basically, in this story, Riddler apparently witnessed how the murder of Joker's wife happened, and he has the name of the man responsible; he's got something Joker wants, and so Joker protects him from Hush, who's after Riddler. Yeah, that's right, it's making The Killing Joke fully canon, but by having Joker remember everything perfectly. Hate it. Skip.

The rivalry vibe does continue, though, if this is any indication (yes, that's Edward, and yes, it is confusing):

-- Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #189

And during Battle for the Cowl, later on, there's this:

-- Batman: Battle for the Cowl -- The Underground

"Dear God, let the Joker not be right behind me." Lmao. Wonder how many people get this train of thought a day in Gotham.

And well, Joker certainly seems to be trying to get on Edward's good side so he can be part of his scheme in Death of the Family, in the New 52:

-- Batman (2011) #15

Love the "you keep his sword nice and sharp" metaphor from Joker. Not an euphemism at all, no sir. Still, since Joker did choose Edward as one of the four most important villains to Batman, there's truth in what he's saying; he does respect what function Riddler serves. However... it's once again quite obvious that it's all about Batman to him, much like in TWOJAR.

And well, since then, there's been this tidbit in Batman: Preludes to the Wedding -- Batgirl vs. Riddler:

Tbh, the idea of Joker tying Edward to a chair and complaining about how he wasn't invited to Batman's wedding while Edward's having his whole life flash before his eyes is quite funny. But obviously, Joker knew what he was doing by dropping that word, since it did get Edward to attack and stir up trouble, which is what Joker orchestrated thorought the whole volume (or "kicked up hornets' nests", to quote Dick).

I guess, to conclude, Joker and Riddler had an ongoing rivalry for a while, with more lighthearted banter here and there. Joker does respect Edward and his intellect to a degree, enough to both fight him and recruit him; however, at the end of the day Joker doesn't see anyone as more important or intelligent than himself. He views only Batman as an equal. And the competition for Batman's attention is more what Edward cared about, but even he's clearly scared by Joker and defers to him in different stories. And that's just healthy survival instincts, honestly.

I do want to say these are comics I can personally think of. I did not include Elseworlds, or comics not in continuity like Azzarello's The Joker because I hate it; also, it's Clayface in Batman (2016) #75 and #81, not Joker, so I didn't include those issues either. But there's certainly other interactions out there, and if anyone wants to add to this, please do! Hope you had fun going through these, Anon. And that they're allowing you to make an idea for yourself of Joker and Riddler's vibes in comics.