#gonna die on this hill

[wrengrif]

Alright, last Random Thoughts for today

Be mad at Aziraphale! Look at the horrible things that he said! Look at him leaving Crowley after Crowley poured out his heart! He went off to toxic Heaven on an impossible mission!

Be mad at Crowley! Look at the horrible things HE said! Look how he doesn't ever take responsibility for his actions! He walked out when Aziraphale needed him the most!

You know what? You can be angry at both of them. You can blame both of them for not taking the time to actually see the problems right in front of their faces. You can be mad that Aziraphale never asked Crowley to move in with him directly, for not seeing how on edge and depressed Crowley was, how he never seemed to relax, always waiting for another shoe to fall. You can be mad at Crowley for not realizing just how seriously manic Aziraphale was, how the angel was going around without an rudder, using Crowley as a proxy!Heaven to report to.

They both made mistakes. They both have something to learn in their separation. They both have to come back to this friendship, this relationship, having made progress in their own self-realizations.

I think that's what Neil, and the script, have been leading to all along. They're stronger together, but only if they are working together. Equal partnership, fifty-fifty. Balancing out each other's weaknesses, supporting each other's strengths.

We, as a fandom, should not be, in my personal opinion, Pro-Crowley or Pro-Aziraphale. We should be Pro-Ineffable Husbands. We accept they are both fucked up, that we love them anyways, and we're going with them on their wacky journey of personal growth, and eventually, their triumphant reconciliation. That's why we got on this crazy ship to begin with.

So. To them. To Us. To their world.

[lenievi]

yeah, anyway, a lot of posts about kirk/la'an just seem to assume that prime kirk had no interest in la'an, that he was just being friendly, that he acted the way he'd act with anyone, when he himself literally said

"I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel the connection, too. When you first called me... I felt like I knew you."

that he felt the connection, too, influenced his behaviour. it made him open up to la'an in ep 6 and reached out to her in ep 9. the framing of it was different from kirk with uhura.

[acevity]

dont trust her smile she is thinking the most abhorrent things ever while having a casual conversation

[wildjuniperjones]

Agreed! While reading the original post, it made me question why you would simplify prose down like this when the answer hit me:

People still think Hemingway was the godsdamned be-all-end-all of writing.

Those people are dead wrong.

There are other, better authors who use words other than said. There are other, better authors who use adverbs and describe nuance because they're trying to show their audience the scene that's in their head. Maybe that would be a better quality for a screenwriter, idk.

All I know is, OP's post is shit advice and the exact kind of writing advice that makes writers want to quit.

That person in their creative writing class wasn't having a meltdown about dialogue tags. They were having a meltdown because they had been presented with impossible standards time and again, risen to the challenge each time, and still got flack for it.

Yeah, I'd have a meltdown too.

Tagging dialogue

I’ve always struggled with tagging dialogue. It’s such a small part of the story, that it seems like an easy thing to get right. 

Which makes it easy to get wrong. 

I know other people really struggle with tagging dialogue, too. I was in a workshop with a kid who received feedback saying he used too many attributions with adverbs and that he should generally only use said + an action. 

He submitted another piece, and they said his habit of using said + an action at the end of every line of dialogue was too repetitive and that he didn’t need to use that many dialogue tags at all. 

He submitted another piece, and they said he didn’t use any dialogue tags and they never knew who was talking. 

Then, he had a full blown meltdown in the workshop. Over dialogue tags. 

I want us all to avoid a situation like that, so I thought I would illustrate dialogue tagging rules with a sample from what is probably the piece of writing for teaching dialogue: Hemingway’s “Hills Like White Elephants.” 

The scene is of a man and a woman sitting at a table, drinking: 

Wasn’t that bright? 

That’s good dialogue. It’s concise. It’s clear. It’s interesting. 

How does it manage that? Let’s separate the components of this except and find out.  

Here is just the dialogue:

It’s comprised of eight lines, with the woman speaking four times and the man speaking four times, in turn.  

Here are the dialogue tags. 

There aren’t very many at all. Three “she said”s and one action. 

This dialogue works well because Hemingway lets the dialogue speak for itself. Pun unintended. 

He does what every writing manual says to do. He follows THE RULES:

                                               THE RULES

Use “said.” Exclusively. “Asked,” is fine for special occasions. No adverbs. No fancy attributions. Just said the character. You know all of those lists with titles like “words you can use instead of ‘said?’” DON’T DO IT. DON’T TRUST THEM. SAID IS A PERFECTLY GOOD WORD. 

Only tag your dialogue enough for the reader to see who’s speaking. Once you’ve established who’s speaking, you don’t need to say ‘he said,’ ‘she said’ anymore, because it’s no longer very useful to your reader.

Only describe actions that are important to the scene. * Don’t feel the need to illustrate your characters’ every action. Only show what’s important to the understanding of the scene, the actions that build character and inform the dialogue. The girl putting down her glass shows us that she doesn’t like the taste of liquorice. It adds meaning to her words. Sometimes you can replace a tag with an action. For instance, you don’t really need “she said and put the glass down.” If you say “she put the glass down,” the reader will understand she’s the one speaking. 

Describe thoughts sparingly. When do you do most of your thinking about a conversation? When you’re actually speaking to the person? Or when you’re on your way home wondering if those words in that order means he likes you, or if he likes you? Or lying in bed that night trying to figure out why IN THE WORLD YOU SAY SUCH STUPID THINGS? Most thoughts can be saved for after the dialogue is finished and your character actually has time to mull things over. If the dialogue is doing its job, we’ll be able to see the characters’ gears turning by virtue of their words. 

I personally find it difficult to learn from just the good stuff. So now I’ll show you why these rules exist by completely ruining this dialogue:

This is so much worse than Hemingway’s version. I haven’t messed with the actual dialogue, but my tags have ruined it all the same.

Let��s go through just why it’s so much worse.

It’s redundant. If the girl is saying “yes,” we already know she’s agreeing. If she’s saying it tastes like liquorice and putting the glass down, we can see that she’s complaining about it. Saying that she hates liquorice just furthers that redundancy. This is why most attributions other than “said” are frowned upon. We don’t need “I am responding to your point,” they replied. Or “I LIKE CAKE!!” he exclaimed. Or “Really?” he questioned.

It assumes the reader isn’t smart enough to understand subtext. When writing, assume you’re readers are as smart as you are. “That was bright,” the man said sarcastically. “Cut it out,” the man said angrily. If you think you’d understand that the man is angry when he says “cut it out,” trust that your reader will, too. Because I assure you, they are smart enough to understand it, and when they do, that “angrily” is redundant and insulting. This is why it’s best to avoid adverbs at the end of your dialogue tags. Like fancy attributions, they tell what your dialogue has already shown.

The pace is wrong. Putting tags at every line slows down the dialogue. It clogs up the scene. This is a quick interaction. Most dialogue is quick. When we talk to someone, very little time tends to pass between our responses. This speed should be mimicked in the way dialogue is written and read. This is why you should keep your dialogue as streamlined as possible, and keep thoughts, actions, and tags to a minimum. 

It puts a focus on the writing. All of those fancy attributions, adverbs, and additional tags say: “this is not being said by these two people. I am the author of this text and I am describing what they are saying to you.” That’s a lot for an adverb to be saying. It takes attention away from what the characters are saying and draws attention to the fact that this is fiction. “Said” works well because it’s all but invisible to the reader. It keeps the attention on your characters’ words. 

Hopefully, this has convinced you that when it comes to dialogue, you should let your characters do all of the talking. (Pun intended.) 

This isn’t a definitive list of the rules, though. There are others. For instance: keep your speaker’s action with their dialogue. Don’t pair one character’s action with another character’s dialogue.

If you don’t exactly trust someone who admits to getting their dialogue wrong**, here’s a list of other resources that can help you improve your dialogue tags. These also go heavier into the grammar of tagging dialogue. 

He Said, She Said: Dialog Tags and Using Them Effectively

Keep it Simple: Keys to Realistic Dialogue (Part II)

Writing Fiction: Dialogue Tag Basics

Also: 

A list of attributions to never, ever use

*Many people will tell you that actions work better than “said” attributions in dialogue. People get this advice, like my workshopping pal, and end up putting “he/she smiled” after every line of dialogue. Action as attribution works, but can easily clutter the scene with unnecessary choreography. It’s more complicated and trickier to pull off than just putting “said x” after the first few lines of dialogue. This is why my advice is to only use it where the action is doing work for your scene. 

**I can correct it by the 3rd or 4th draft. Usually.

[hoziersong]

no but the thing is. they KISSED. on screen. it was a real scene, not deleted, not removed from a script, it HAPPENED in front of the world's eyes. and AND the actors are normal about it and the whole cast and crew is normal about it and it's not vague and it's IMPORTANT. no matter the rest of it and what came after it, it happened!!

[kazisonline]

Not cuz I hate people saying that "Mel burns into Victor it means that Jayce actually loved Victor and not Mel" no you stupid bitches it's about both of them is that he loves both of them you absolute buffoons stupid fucking dumbasses

tbh it's people on tiktok saying that you're fine loves

[andy-clutterbuck]

The Ones Who Live | 1x03 - Bye

[not-rigel]

bratty sevika that laughs when she uses her strength against you to pin you beneath her so she can ride your strap all she wants, trying to get herself off DOES ANYONE SEE THE VISION

[thevoidstaredback]

The plan was set and the game had begun.

There was a meeting on the Watchtower exactly three days after the Bat Clan had decided to mess with the Justice League, so that's when they planned to set everything in motion.

Robin couldn't be at the meeting because it fell during school hours, so Nightwing had come to the meeting with Batman. He'd already had the day off, so it wasn't too much of a hasel. Red Hood and Red Robin had both wanted to come, but they also had civilian duties to take care of.

When the meeting was over, the 'main leaguers', as many others had dubbed them, stayed behind as they always did. Normally, it was just so they all could catch up, sometimes to arrange another meeting, or even to discuss more sensitive topics.

This time, when everyone but Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, The Flash, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, and Nightwing had left the room, Nightwing threw his arm across Batman's shoulders and said "You all should come to the Cave!"

All conversation stopped as everyone turned to look at the black and blue clad vigilante. For a long moment, no one spoke or moved. Then, Batman nodded.

"Perfect!" Nightwing's smile got even bigger.

"Um," Superman, the sweet midwesterner, flicked his eyes over to Batman's face before looking at Nightwing. "Are you sure? Bat's has never let any of us into Gotham, let alone the Bat Cave."

Nightwing winked at the hero, his domino mask not hiding it, "Yeah, well, me and the others managed to wear him down. Besides, we've all wanted to give you guys a tour! We've been to all your secret hideouts, so we figured it's about time you saw ours!"

"I'm sorry," Green Lantern raised his hand slightly, "'Others'?"

Nightwing blinked, his smile dropping. Batman straightened up. "Did you-" Nightwing cut himself off, "You do know how many of us there are in Gotham, right?"

The heroes all looked at one another. Sure, they'd heard that there was two, maybe three, working with Batman, but nothing had ever been confirmed aside from Robin working with Batman and Nightwing working in Bludhaven.

Batman fought very hard to keep a smirk off his face. Nightwing didn't even try to hide his amusement.

Wonder Woman was the one to ask, "There are rumors, but I can't say any of us know exactly how many heroes work within Gotham City limits."

Nightwing and Batman shared a glance. This added so much more to their game. They had to tell the others! This was already so much fun, but it was about to get so much better!

"Then, I guess you all have no choice but to come to the Cave with us so you can meet everyone!" Nightwing exclaimed.

The eight heroes shared looks with one another before looking back at Batman and Nightwing. Their choice was obvious to the two Bats before the group had even decided.

"Alright," Aquaman said, "When would you like us to stop by?"

Right on script. Batman said, "Meet here tomorrow at fifteen-hundred New Jersey time. We'll be here to bring you down to the Cave." Then, he left, Nightwing trailing behind him.

"Cool," Flash nodded, "Cool, cool. Totally not nerve wracking at all."

Cyborg stood from his seat. "Don't be nervous, Flash. We're actually being allowed in Gotham. Batman doesn't let anyone in Gotham."

"No," Green Arrow said, "He doesn't let anyone operate in Gotham. I've been many times."

"As Green Arrow or as a civilian?"

He fell silent and the others all laughed. He joined them.

"Regardless," Martian Manhunter said, "I think it's good he's allowing us to see his main base of operations."

"Yeah," agreed Superman, "I wonder what it'll be like."

Wonder Woman was the next to stand from her seat. "It will be quite the tour, I'm sure."

Part 2 Part 4

[lesbianscxlly]

thinking about how out of all mulders close relationships scully was pretty much the only one to ever call him the name he wanted to be called

[zsbrainrot]

Rei finally being able to feel safe while he’s sleeping is very important to me.

[rin-sith]

I love. LOVE. Get In the Water

It's one of the objectively best songs in the musical; I will die on this hill.

Poseidon was always, despite being pretty much the main antagonist of EPIC, a really underdeveloped character in my opinion. He just needed a little more nuance, and the fact that one (+ kind of one more) song managed to add so much to his characterization pretty much exclusively through subtext and implications is incredibly impressive writing. Because it did!

At the start, he's yet again playing games with Odysseus, the way he did in Ruthlessness. In both songs, he could kill him easily at any point, yet he chooses not to for the sake of playing games. In Ruthlessness, this becomes his own hubris as it leads to Odysseus escaping.

If you listen closely, at the start of GITW he already sounds slightly different. He's still trying to keep up this "God of Ruthlessness" front that he's so proud of, but he's no longer more or less carefree the way he was in Ruthlessness. He's been obsessing over this feud for ten years, and even if he would never admit it, it's actually clear just from his voice that he really is tired of it too. Not in the sense of it emotionally draining him the way it probably does Odysseus, but in the sense that it's a bother, a loose end in his life, a book that he finally wants to slam shut.

But he still has a reputation to uphold, and he still cannot close this book until Odysseus is dead, so he keeps up the game. Instead of just killing him, he's taunting him to kill himself. He might associate the idea of just striking him down with a sort of loss, like then he'd have to get his hands dirty. Then he's rambling about killing his people, his family. He's provoking Odysseus on purpose, likely trying to get him to snap back, to hate and fear him the way that Poseidon would think any mortal who has consumed this much of his time should. In his eyes, Odysseus deserves nothing less than to curse him with his last breath as his "darkest moment," the god who became the bane of his life.

And Odysseus replies, of all things, with ... sympathy.

Honestly, I don't blame Poseidon for being speechless for three full seconds. He literally just threatened to gauge Telemachus' eyes out the way Odysseus did with Polyphemus, and this absolute madlad of a man replies with an acknowledgment that he (might have) caused Poseidon pain too.

Now, I don't really think Poseidon was particularly hurt over Polyphemus' loss, or hurting in any way in that moment (if he were, I highly doubt he'd still be playing games, and he would've mentioned his son as opposed to speaking about his reputation.) But just the fact that Odysseus acknowledges that he might be hurting too is probably something Poseidon hasn't heard in ... who knows how long? His family is the Olympians. I don't think I have to say more.

It's actually more of a genuine apology than Odysseus' explanation in Ruthlessness ... (even though that was also a perfectly fine apology by Greek standards, as far as I'm aware.) Now he doesn't say "sorry" because he's still not sorry for hurting Polyphemus, since he still needed to do that in order to escape. But he expresses regret over the pain he caused in a more genuine way than ever.

I am convinced that Poseidon is utterly unfamiliar with sympathy or mercy. He's lived by his "Ruthlessness is mercy" motto for centuries, and he doesn't know anything else. No one would try to teach him something different. The other gods all live by this logic, even if he's the most vocal about it considering he seems to have made it his whole personality. Mortals wouldn't dare to question Poseidon in the first place. And barely anyone would be willing to treat someone with kindness who is in turn treating everyone around them with ruthlessness.

It's very likely that Poseidon hasn't encountered anyone like this until Odysseus. Ruthlessness is simply how he treats people and also how he expects to be treated back. The fact that Odysseus doesn't, the fact that instead of hating, fearing, or cursing him, he acknowledges that they have both hurt each other and that it doesn't lead anywhere to still pursue vengeance, must have triggered Poseidon in an unprecedented way.

To him, this was probably the most outrageous thing Odysseus could have said in that moment. And it throws him off so much that he is genuinely speechless, and then simply replies, "I can't." ... his most genuine-sounding line in the whole musical.

I cannot stress enough how much it threw me off to hear this line; in the best way imaginable, it doesn't sound like Poseidon. It sounds almost vulnerable. Almost human. Because he is genuinely at a loss so much that he forgets to put up his "wrathful god" facade for just one second. Standing ovation to Steven Rodriguez for his whole performance, but especially this part.

And then Odysseus goes all out to say something even more outrageous: "Maybe you could learn to forgive?"

... Which is when Poseidon snaps.

Kind of understandable, honestly. There's this mortal whom he has likely fantasized about seeing pleading, hate-filled, and terrified, cowering before him for ten years now ... telling him that he ought to learn something. Even hijacking his own motif and his instrument in order to turn it on its head, "defile" it if you will.

This f*cking mortal pr*ck took his own "Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves" catchphrase and turned it into forgiveness ... Of course, Poseidon is no longer hesitating; of course, he is no longer concerned with getting his hands dirty or not. He yells "DIE!" and unleashes his ultimate move (which is really overkill for simply killing a mortal if you think about it) ... But he does it anyway because this time he genuinely means it.

... That, and I am also convinced he jumps to that in order to simply shut Odysseus up, fearing what he might do or think if he lets him go on. Because you cannot tell me that Odysseus didn't actually reach him for just one moment. He was far too thrown off guard, far too vulnerable in that one second. That moment of kindness did something to him, and he hated it. He also probably didn't trust himself to be able to keep listening to Odysseus speak like that. So, he abandons his (still very technically feasible!) blackmail/intimidation and just straight-up kills him.

This simple exchange (my favorite moment in the whole musical, actually) tells us so much about both of these characters that it makes me want to skitter and squeal in excitement.

Here is Odysseus—the very same one whom Poseidon specifically tried to teach ruthlessness—becoming the first person in a long time to offer him sympathy despite how Poseidon himself showed him nothing but ruthlessness. And then one song later, here is Odysseus showing him the consequences of not accepting said sympathy.

Six Hundred Strike and what Odysseus does to Poseidon would've not hit the same, in my opinion, if he hadn't made this offer, if he hadn't given Poseidon this way out, even if no one watching genuinely expected it to work (probably not even Odysseus himself.)

Six Hundred Strike is not Odysseus exacting vengeance If GITW proved anything about Odysseus, it's that he does not want vengeance. He wants all of the hatred and pain to be over, to the point where he is willing to let go of, and I am inclined to say forgive Poseidon for what he's done to him. Six Hundred Strike is simply Odysseus teaching him this lesson that Poseidon couldn't have learned in any other way, because he has proven in GITW that he genuinely does not speak any language besides that of ruthlessness (more on that in this essay!)

It's just the perfect representation of how Odysseus has now finally learned the balance between mercy and ruthlessness, which seems to be the core theme of the musical: Both have their time and place; one simply has to be willing to act in both ways and know when to use either. No one extreme is the solution. I am genuinely exhilarated that Odysseus finally seemed to have figured out that it's been both all along.

[number-one-shadisper-shipper]

I've come to make an announcement.

[kenny-404]

Will Buck and Tommy ever get to have a scene without Eddie??? 😭😭😭

*these are some very pointedly obvious writings choices and sooo not subtle at all 🤭 (even during their first kiss eddie’s name was mentioned like 17 times lmaooo 🤣)

[tei-to-tei]

December 2 - Story Time

[oifaaa]

I like to tell myself that I'm above arguing about hair colour until someone brings up "strawberry blonde" acting like that's a real ass hair colour when 10 out of 10 times the person's hair is either blonde or ginger and absolutely nothing will ever make me change my mind on this