#for reasons i have to assume relate to SPN

[chadillacboseman]

saw this on my dash and went what in the FUCK only to see it was a wip wednesday post lmao.

LMFAO

[seddair]

,

[bonesandpoemsandflowers]

I've been thinking about the Richard Siken discourse again, and why exactly, besides the obvious, I've always found it so cringe that people read Crush as if it's actual honest to god intentional fanwork of Supernatural.

Obvious: the timelines don't add up, artists are their own people existing on their own terms, your framework is your framework and you cannot assume other people have worlds just as small, and most people do not write a whole fucking collection of poetry and go to the trouble of getting it published because they like a TV show. you are underestimating the slog of the publishing process.

Less obvious: having not seen SPN, but being culturally SPN-ish because I am on tumblr dot com, as far as I can tell the reason that people think Crush is a fanwork is because a reoccurring motif is Boys In Cars. Hot Guys Being Hot In Cars.

But that's because Hot Guys In Cars is just like, a thing. If you like guys you probably like Guys In Cars. It has nothing to do with if you like cars or not. I am utterly indifferent to cars. Not only did I never learn the breeds of cars: the general classification of cars eludes me, because I am so thoroughly disinterested in cars. The rideshare app says the driver will arrive in a sedan. What does this mean? I do not know. It is a mystery.

But I love Guys In Cars. It's so hot. But it is not about the car. It's about the intimacy of two people crammed into a small space for an indeterminate amount of time. Potentially a very long time, if we're talking American for roads and distances (and probably also guys and cars). It's that a car is a capsule is a hotel room is a shared journey is a getaway is a trap, and those people in there are just stuck together. Temporary, yes, but what isn't?

Shared space (car), shared goal (destination), isolation (limit to how many other people are in the car).

So it's intimate, is what I'm saying here, it's intimate over and over.

"You're in a car with a beautiful boy," Siken writes, and that line does so much work already. It implies that it's just you and the beautiful boy, maybe. Probably. He's trapped in there with you. You're trapped in there with him. He won't tell you he loves you: this is not an ideal place but it is an in-between place. "But he loves you." It is the place you have. Trapped in there with him. Trapped in there with you.

So it's intimate, it's hot. It is general as much as it is specific. It is, I would say, a fucking foundational ingredient. It's like this man wrote an omelet and you guys went "omg that HAS to be about my blorbos" because anything made with eggs is a direct reference to your blorbos.

Stop it. Recognize the universality of the things you read. Why is it relatable? Why is it delicious? Or I mean, you don't have to think about it, actually. You can just enjoy the omelet. But stop going directly to the chef about it, okay?

[jarpadswalker]

Part II

I am back to answer the rest of the two questions related to Jensen and the prequel gate...

About my views on Jensen... Early on, especially when I started following con panels and attended two myself. I became Jared girl, Jensen, for me, was an accessory. He was just like any actor, nothing special. When I met him, I knew instantly that though it is an informal event, it is all business for him. Now, it wouldn't have meant much because I am used to actors' behavior, but for me, the behavior stood out coz I had just met Jared, who was the big ball of energy. So meeting Jensen immediately after Jared was like someone sucked the energy out. This is exactly why, for the next day, I kept Jared at the last because I wanted to end my day with the positivity.

So I didn't mind Jensen as he didn't come across as rude or insulting like Misha, nor was he amiable like Jared. He was just like any actor.

For me, the first red flag came during AKF and YANA debacle, which is when I realised that Jensen is not how he appears to be. He is very calculative and shrewd. He supported YANA despite knowing it was a blatant copy for AKF. Still, I said fine you launch YANA. There is no copyright on supporting MH more the support better it is. BUt, Misha and Jensen were totally insincere with the campaign. They didn't take efforts to understand the gravity of the situation nor gave any thoughts on how the campaign was being presented. It was clear that YANA was nothing but a money minting project for M, Jensen, and CW. The worst was when the campaign failed, Jensen bailed, leaving Misha alone to take the fall. He didn't have balls to stand up for the project that was supposedly important to him. The moment it failed, he went. Nope, I wasn't interested in it, I just did it to help M. Everything was M's idea.

Since then, I started doubting Jensen intentions and didn't believe a word he said. I realise that he is opportunist. The moment he sees profit into something, he latches to it. Not only that, but even in terms of putting effort, he does the bare minimum, but when it comes to appreciation, he is first to take credit.

My doubts were confirmed with Prequelgate. At first, the sheer unprofessionalism was appalling, but I thought there might be some miscalculation. He won't stan Jared immediately after the end of the show. But that illusion broke when Kripke tweeted, apologizing Jared and stating that he assumed Jensen must have informed Jared. It proved that whatever Jensen did was intentional. He always wanted to own the SPN brand. I think somewhere it always hurt Jensen that despite being senior in the craft, it was Jared, a conparatively young actor who got the lead. Jared was always in the forefront when it came to media attention. If you have time, then just compare the kind of media that gave coverage to Jared and Jensen and the amount of time they do it, at least during SPN. Jared, with his extrovert attitude, is mainstream media fave. So I feel it was deliberate. He was to slyly make the brand for himself, and he knew he would lose Jared's fan if he told the truth. So he lied about Jared. When he was called out, like a coward, he once again ran and hid.

What is the worst was the MR podcast that showed the world hus true face. Instead of apologizing, he tried to shift the blame on Jared. Which was the dick move and then his constant lying and changing the reason as to why he didn't inform Jared. It was when I lost all the respect for him. In fact, according to me, at that point, he seemed worse than Musha. With Misha, we knew what to expect, but Jensen pretended to be a friend/brother and then backstabbed the said brother. Such people are the worst.

Post prequelgate, Jensen behavior came to light. Things that were ignored becoz his association with Jared came to like. It became quiet telling how Jensen never supported Jared. How he never asked his fans not to hate on Jared PS, immediately after prequelgat Jared actually asked fans not to hate Jensen. Jensen never extended the same courtesy. In fact, he piled on to the hate by making sparky comments. He would always diss Jared. How he never took ant effort to make Jared feel special, not even during his birthday. How he always used Jared and then dissed him from everything . How he would steal Jared's jokes and ideas and pass it as his own.

Infact, now when I look back I feel Jensen always tried to one up Jared. See, everything that he has done it is immediately after Jared. Jared shifted to Austin and bought a house with open field and stuff, Jensen immediately shifted to Austin and bought the house at the lake front. Jared entered pub business with San Jac salon and curated an alcohol with Stephen, Jensen started FBBC. PS: Jensen had zero idea about beer , nor did he bother to learn about it. Unlike Jared, who studied the entire market. Gen started her influencer journey, Dannel tried to copy it and, when she failed, resorted to dissing Gen like a child. Jared and Gen got into production, and so did Jensen and D. He has always copied Jared. Even now, Jensen is trying to copy Jared's long hair look. Over the year, he has seen how Jared long hair look has been appreciated, so he is now trying to copy it. He couldn't do it earlier because producers and directors didn't allow him to. Now we know why they did, Jensen looks like cheap motel pimp.

[synesindri]

how do you think lucifer knew about pop culture and such? like even in season 5 when he was the original version of himself the writers hadn’t ruined yet, he uses a lot of slang and modern idioms. and i guess we could just say bad writing lol but what’s your opinion?

hiii hi lucifer's s5 pop culture references are one of my favorite dialogue writing choices of the show tbh! the tl;dr is that i think lucifer did a lot of digging around in nick's mind while he was hanging out in nick's body, but i'll like, show my work and stuff also lol

so, in 5.01, before lucifer has a physical vessel and is appearing in nick's dreams, there are no pop culture references in sarah!lucifer's speech, and very little slang. the same is true when lucifer speaks to azazel through the sacrificed nun in the flashback in 4.22.

the pop culture references start after lucifer has taken nick as a vessel and has full access to everything in nick's mind and body, not just whatever can be accessed through dreams. he also starts moving more casually and fluidly, with little gestural quirks that imo have a similar effect to the pop culture references: communicating with humans in human-oriented ways that humans will easily understand and that will make him more relatable to them (not necessarily more likable, but maybe less alien, at least)

so, i think the pop culture refs are picked up from his vessels' memories and thoughts! he got in there, he got total, internal access to nick's memories and his body's habits and his speech patterns and stuff, and starting using those materials in his own communication styles. and then maybe also picked some up through exposure once he had the basics down, after he'd been out of the cage for a while

speculatively, i'd guess this was part of why nick was appealing to lucifer as a vessel: from what we see of nick, we know that what he wears looks like he has a job that has him in work boots (so, probably not white collar, and probably therefore has a vernacular more similar to sam and dean's than someone who would be spending his days in a corporate office, for example) and has pretty standard spn-core ways of speaking. having nick as a vessel puts lucifer more in sam's world visually, in speech, and in movement style more than other possible vessels would. he probably knows a lot of the same pop culture sam does, and he probably talks the way people sam is comfortable and familiar with talk — so, if lucifer learns to talk like a human from nick, lucifer also will come across as a familiar, relatable type of person to sam (didn't work too well but like, A for effort). idk if lucifer would have known enough about human class structures etc to be able to identify nick as the right kind of human to learn human culture from in order to talk to sam, so disregard if that seems too circular...but imo it's smart from the writers/costumers/etc, even if it didn't factor into lucifer's choice at all

(all of this makes different angels' characterization really interesting, i think, because some of them do a lot of human-ifying of themselves like this, while others don't. does castiel not do it much for the sake of jimmy's mind/memory privacy, or because he just doesn't care very much about seeming human? what's up with uriel and michael using pop culture referneces but not much human body language? like i know it's largely inconsistency in writing and acting choices for different characters but just assuming it's actually character-based reasons, i love it. and imo it implies that lucifer is very curious about humanity, even though he wants to get rid of them, and is good with rhetoric in that he understands the value of speaking to people in a way that feels familiar (he sucks at rhetoric in some other ways lol, but he was doing a good job on that, at least))

[catsconflictscopicsandchamomile]

A bit ill and emotionally distraught rn (over-studied amd wrecked myself, academia etc) so. here's some new spn finale thoughts

I've been convinced more or less Since Day One that Blurrywife is the final monster of spn, that she was the pointedly-never-otherwise-revealed head of the "vamp-mimes" nest, and that wherever Sam and Dean are, not only is it not "Jack's Heaven", it's not ANY heaven. While I do believe in the Chuck Won Theory (for reasons that are a whole other post unto themselves) re: Sam and Dean's endings in particular, the Faceless Woman Hovering Unsettlingly In The Corner always interested me more than possible divine intervention.

I have a pretty solid idea of what she is (ie, narratively, thematically and attack-style-wise, what kind of creature makes the most sense/is most interesting) and a few ideas, not really mutually exclusive either, about how she got ahold of Sam and Dean. But lately a certain one has seemed more compelling especially re: what Blurrywife's relation to Chuck is (if we are considering the Chuck Won theory to be true) because, well, she doesn't exactly strike me as a Heavenly entity.

...but do yall remember Becky? Crazy fangirl who tried to drug and r*pe Sam, but eventually actually got the help she needed, and had a family and a healthy life (while still being in the spn fandom and writing fic) (this show gets... so meta...) before Chuck sought her out as a sounding board for his clearly-the-actual-finale crappy ending. She hated it, he poofed her out of existence, its largely understood though never putright stated that "Jack" brought her back along with everyone else.

Now, I don't think Becky IS Blurrywife. I think Becky made a deal with something. Think about it. Assuming comes back, she has the criticial thinking skills to be just as sus about the whole "Jack Is God" thing as the fandom irl is. She has every reason to think that Chuck's bad ending is still coming for Sam and Dean- so what does she, as a supernatural fan within the supernatural universe, do? She makes a deal. Maybe not with a demon, but with a creature who promises some power over Sam and Dean's story. So, what do we know about what Becky wants for Sam and Dean?

-She writes "brother-focused" fanfic

-She most likely wants a happy ending, which most likely would include Sam & Dean being together forever

-Given when in the show she appears, she clearly had her heyday in the fandom during the in-universe book equivalent of the first 6 seasons

-At least at one point, she was romantically and sexually obsessed with Sam to the point of trying to force him to marry her

So, knowing that anything offering a "Deal" in spn is giving you a Monkey's Paw situation at best and just flat out killing you/the person you want to protect at worst. If, right after she's returned to life/existence in 15x19, Becky makes a deal with some entity to give Sam & Dean (not Cas or Jack or anyone else, JUST Sam & Dean) a "happy ending" or "good ending".... especially if part of that deal is Becky sharing her knowledge of Sam & Dean with that entity....

(now, there actually IS a creature that fits this whole description exactly, AND!!! is an Irish creature often described as Banshee-Adjacent. That leads into another read of Blurrywife that I think does good things for spn's narrative, which is that, in a reversal of the usual "Sam's Dead Girlfriends" dynamics, Blurrywife is one of Eileen's longterm hunts who essentially lays a trap for Sam (Dean is absolutely just collateral damage in this case) to get at Eileen, in the same was Sam's longer-term opponents would go after his romantic relationships)

also TO BE CLEAR, this is not me blaming Becky in-canon/blaming "Bibros" or whatever on a meta level for the finale. In-canon, this theory has Becky acting out of nothing but genuine care and concern for Sam & Dean, yet sadly meeting the fate of all those who make deals in spn, likely dying herself while her actions unwittingly set up the very "bad ending" she was trying to prevent. On a meta level, similarly, I do think that the view of spn held by "Bibros" was largely taken out of context and distorted by The CW/certain spn writers to kinda-justify their utter pile-of-shit finale.

[georgiapeach30513]

Gilmore girls anon here:

Sooo much agree!

I love that upon rewatches the show makes you change your mindset about certain situations and characters. I think that’s superior writing at work!

I was also a few years younger than Rory was, and the dynamics of that really spoke to me as well!

I also did really like dean when we first met him but later on, you do realize dean had too many red flags. I like Jared P too - and I think that was part of the reason why people liked dean (at first)? Then I assume he got written out of the show because he went on to do supernatural for the next 20 years lol but maybe it was just because his character was being outgrown by Rory. Or both.

Logan and Rory actually do make sense but how they bought them back in the revival was just problematic. And yes, she couldn’t remember her actual bf’s name which was just 🙄. I felt like half the revival series was just an epic trolling effort 🤣 but I do think Amy Sherman Palladino had her reasons for writing it the way she did. I also felt she was purposely making people say how much they loved Rory and how Rory was this amazing person because doth protest too much. It became extremely obvious to me in the revival that Rory is a product of her own upbringing but she also didn’t learn from the lessons her own mother tried to teach her.

Love hearing that you loved this show too. I could talk about them for hours.

Yeah, upon first viewing and watching it every week as it was on, I obviously related to Rory, but I adored Lorelei. Now, I find Emily to be the Queen!

I found Jared on GG to be so beautiful. Looks wise, he is still the most attractive boyfriend. But I loved how he spent time with Rory and Lorelei, but he turns toxic quickly. And I didn’t see that as a teenager, but I suppose that’s the point. SPN started in 2005, and I think Dean was already off the show. I know Jared did a few random movies. He was even in a Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen movie. And House of Wax which is oddly enjoyable.

I’m glad that Amy got to finish the series in her way. Although I despise the ending. I found Rory to be insufferable in the revival. And even Lorelei and Luke not having grown at all. It just didn’t share the same charm as it once did. With that being said I wasn’t satisfied with the series finale anyways.

[sweaterkittensahoy]

I have been in fandom since before the internet, but I didn't know that there was a name for it before I got the internet at 14.

Sean is two years younger than me and has never been in fandom. He looked up fic as a teen and it just didn't hit him. So, he's never been in fandom.

We have VERY different experiences. We watch a show, and we can talk about what we've seen and what it means. But then I'll go, "OMG what if I wrote a fic about X" and he listens and sometimes offers interesting suggestions, but it's so clearly not what he's into. He is happy watching and experiencing and talking about the story he's watching. I enjoy all those things BUT ALSO want to go in various directions depending on what really digs into my brain.

And the thing is, the normies who have found fandom and try so hard to bend fandom to them truly do not understand fandom. It's not about looking at what you're getting from canon and sitting there and only talking and writing and accepting that. Fandom is about loving something so much you can't stop the tendrils of creativity from uncurling and reaching out. Yes, canon said THIS but WHAT IF. Hey, canon never did THIS and WHAT IF. Hey, canon said THIS but I want to do THAT and HOW DOES THAT WORK.

And the thing is, I think there are normies in fandom who aren't huge assholes about how the rest of us are a bunch of perverts and weirdos. But also, I believe the rise of normies in fandom spaces are directly related to why so many people coming into fandom think it's about convincing showrunners to do what THEY want.

When that is not and never has been and never should be what fandom is about.

Fandom is about being so interested in something you want to turn it over and over in your hands looking for all the details you can pull from it. Fandom is about loving characters and going, "But what if these same people ran a coffee shop?" Fandom is about going "Canon says they have no romantic love, but they're wrong."

And this does NOT mean normies don't have a place in fandom. But normies HAVE deeply influenced fandom by doing things like breaking the fourth wall and refusing to disconnect from canon.

I wrote exactly 1 story for Supernatural. It was Sam/Gabriel. I had Sam call Gabriel "Gabe." The reason I never posted any other SPN fic is because someone on that story got mad at me for having Sam call Gabriel "Gabe." Because it wasn't canon.

Neither was the fucking, mind you. But that person was so pissed off I used a non-canon nickname that they actually argued with someone who WASN'T ME about how they shouldn't have written that when a stranger tried to politely point out what a dumb thing that was to say about FAN FICTION. Because the complainer was so determined to be shitty about the nickname that they assumed the completely random person with a completely different handle than mine must be me defending myself. I did get into the thread and pointed out I was clearly the author, and I didn't fucking care if they didn't like it.

Looking back, I feel like I saw a very early moment of a normie in fandom trying to bend fandom to what they think fandom is. Which is a straight line extension of canon that somehow includes dudes fucking on a notably queerphobic show but DOES NOT INCLUDE A NON CANON NICKNAME.

The determination to word of god every goddamn detail of everything in fandom, the determination to demand your ship become canon, the determination that only certain ships are the RIGHT ONES because others are too weird or gross or just what you don't personally want are all connected to normies coming into fandom and expecting fandom to be normie.

Fandom should never, ever be normie. Fandom should ALWAYS be the John Waters against the British movie censors. They told him, upon reviewing Pink Flamingos, "We have no rating for intentional bad taste."

In fandom, we should all be John Waters, aiming first and foremost for our own enjoyment and delight in what we want to create. And laughing as we tell the story of the normies being so lost at what we're doing that they can't rate it at all because all they see is bad taste.

[charcubed]

I really liked your "Dean is Bisexual" post and also your Chuck Meta. I think you're pretty cool. Do you think you'll ever compile a post about how spn is queercoding, and not baiting? No worries if not or anything I just like your thoughts and that topic really gets me fired up lol

(Anon's referencing this Dean post [I assume] and of course this meta monstrosity)

Thank you so much!! :') I can't tell you how much I appreciate the fact that you read my stuff and took the time to send these kind words! <3 Honored to know you like my thoughts!

Re: that topic firing you up, oh boy do I relate lmaaaooo. The existence of the word "queerbaiting" pisses me off as a general rule and I want it abolished, and it extra pisses me off when it's used in SPN context.

I've written about how subtext and queercoding are inherent methods of canonicity in this article about Black Sails (no spoilers for the show), and I quote the evergreen passages when they're relevant–probably insufferably. But I've been thinking recently I need to pull those paragraphs and adapt them to a separate post or Tweet thread to get more eyes and brains thinking about the subject at large, because devaluing subtext/queercoding and perpetuating these bullshit discussions has become so pervasive.

Generally speaking though, I think chapter 2 of part 7 of the Chuck Won meta–aka the Destiel manifesto section lmfao–is the most directly I've talked about it in a context specifically and solely tailored to SPN's situation. I'm sure you read it... but I get what you mean in terms of maybe there being a need for a standalone post about it. Hm.

I think part of the reason I've only gone past the tip of that iceberg (so far) when already within that wider meta context is that the censorship argument and evidence feels paramount, y'know? The baseline problem at the end of the day is people saying subtext and queercoding aren't "good enough" and calling it bait, right? And that's both a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of those tools and a complete unawareness or disregard for their necessity. So by and large, people have been so conditioned to ascribe malice to writers–and to the SPN writers specifically–that censorship doesn't even occur to them as the real "big bad," if you will. "We're in 2022, why can't you just make it gay," etc. is the rallying cry with no acknowledgement of that fact that sometimes creators can't.

And like, forget about all of the many bitter strangers who don't know shit about fuck and are just parroting pervasive myths about SPN they see online; I wish they were reachable but most probably just aren't, though that doesn't stop me from trying to get to them lol. But there are people in this fandom who loudly say all over God's green Internet that SPN is queerbaiting, and for some bizarre reason they get very personally offended if they see anyone saying otherwise and angrily shade people accordingly. (Like me.) I've got a couple of short threads on Twitter where I posted about "queerbaiting" as a term here and here, and those posts were directly inspired by that sort of discourse.

So it's this weird situation where not only are the mocking strangers throwing the word "queerbaiting" around but also so are the SPN fans, simply because they need an easy way to label or summarize their anger and hurt. And then those fans feel ~their emotions are being invalidated~ when they're told "SPN isn't queerbaiting" as they disparage or call into question the remarkable narrative we were given. In the name of not wanting to feel "invalidated" themselves, they invalidate the story. They've bought into the lie that its queer content is not "good enough" to count or to defend as staunch truth because of years of baggage from conflicting outside messages (which I am sympathetic to, don't get me wrong).

All of it is bonkers bananas. We need more unfuckable stubborn bastard energy in this house, in my opinion. Construct an argument! Trust your eyes and your brain! Know your shit and know it's correct until/unless someone can present better evidence from the text itself! Andrew Dabb himself could look me in the eye and say Dean isn't bisexual and I'd call bullshit and unfurl a scroll of my evidence! Fuck it!

And ultimately sometimes I just want to hold up Cas' love confession and wave it in front of people's eyes like "THE SHIP IS LITERALLY CANON AND YOU'RE STILL CALLING IT 'BAIT'? HELLO??? THE ANGEL SAID A VERY GAY I LOVE YOU. I THINK THAT COUNTS SIGNIFICANTLY. IF YOU'RE A FAN IGNORING THIS THEN THE ERASURE IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE"

CASTIEL DIDN'T DIE FOR THIS. Unironically he literally died so that this debate could be put to rest as much as possible!

But anyway. ANYWAY.

Sorry, this TOTALLY got away from me because this topic drives me insane ajkfndsjdfnkajnf

Buuuuuutttttt I'm gonna ruminate on your question! Will I compile a post? Should I compile a post? Hell, maybe the solution is for me to pull chunks of that meta chapter and just tweak it to be standalone on social media. I dunno.

We'll see! If I get any louder about this, it'll potentially be made into a new ground zero of fandom fuckery... but when's that ever stopped me before, right? Half the time my motto ends up being "someone's gotta say it and it might as well be me."

Whew okay apologies for how deranged this is and thank you again!!!! <333

[exitpursuedbyasloth]

I do think covid was responible for Misha not being in the finale. I mean if it had to do with no-homo, why wouldnt Eileen be in the finale? She also seemed to be COVID-related cut. (Not that I think they would have delived on destiel if Misha were there lol)

They had 100 maskless people on a bridge.

A bunch of kids on set (at least 6 different kids).

Jim Beaver, whose pushing 80.

Random Vampire Lady from S1.

Big crowds at the pie festival.

But NO Misha? No Shoshannah? The two Not-Dead people who mean the most to Dean and Sam?

At the time of filming, Canada WAS allowing entertainment jobs to enter Canada with little to no quarantine (like the NHL). SPN already paid Misha for the season, they could use him as much as they wanted.

Even IF they couldn’t get the actors for whatever reason (and there’s no reason good enough to exclude their third lead), there was SO MUCH they could have done to include Cas & Eileen that they chose not to do. They could have clearly show photographs of Eileen in Sam's house, so we know for sure he married her. Instead of Faceless Blurry Wife. In Heaven, they could have had a moment where we hear the angel wing noise, a recycled "Hello, Dean" from Cas, and Dean turning around, grinning. Like that would have been enough to make folks...more content. Make it feel less like a slap to the face. But they chose not to do that. It’s especially egregious to exclude Misha/Cas after what happened in 15x18. Cas confessed gay-romantic sounding love for Dean to Dean, promptly dies, and the confession is never mentioned/dealt with AND Misha/Cas are excluded from the finale, from Dean's Heaven? That looks really bad. You can see what that looks like, see what the implications are. Intentional or not. It is not a good look.

Neither is excluding Sam’s canon girlfriend, who happens to be deaf. Are we supposed to assume she wasn’t good enough for Sam, they didn’t want to saddle Sam with a disabled wife?

Why did the gay angel and the disabled girlfriend get cut out of the finale? Why did they CHOOSE to do that, even though it could be easily rectified with a picture and a voice over? Why can’t Cas be in Dean’s Heaven, why don’t they even want to HINT at that possibility?

It’s not JUST a No Homo ending, although that’s a huge part of it. It’s also a Bros Only ending. Can’t even show Sam’s wife, or any kids he have that aren’t Dean substitutes. No life outside of Dean. Covid isn’t the reason for completely excluding Cas (the Gay Angel) and Eileen (the Deaf Girlfriend). It’s their excuse, their criticism deflector, for doing what they wanted to do, for their own shitty choices.

[hippychick006]

Everything in the original post is just what if, assumptions and in several instances, just downright lies to defend the indefensible.

Jared did NOT know about this specific project, when he was nodding along, it was in relation to the shelved idea of having an SPN watch along. It wasn’t about an SPN revival, that’s basic fact 101 and even Jensen admits that Jared did not know so why you are twisting things, I have no idea whispers because you are a Jensen fan (yes i saw your comment about being a Jared fan first but 😂) The rest of your theory completely made up b/s is built on the foundation of this particular lie so the “theory” is flawed and falls apart.

Basic fact 102 is that a holding deal is not exclusive, it is an agreement to do a certain amount of work for a certain amount of time for an agreed amount of pay, this is guaranteed income. The rest of the time, he can do what he wants as long as it does not conflict with his obligations to the holding studio which have priority over anything else.

Basic fact 103 is that Jared should have been informed at the idea stage as an absolute bare minimum, easy enough to get him to sign an NDA and easy enough to say, “listen Buddy, I’m thinking of pitching a show in the SPN universe, it’s not Sam and Dean but about their parents, I wasn’t planning to involve you, are you okay with that?” That’s basic common courtesy that the producers should have done and Kripke assumed it had been done, it’s THAT basic and acknowledged to be the right thing to do within the industry. Jared did it with Chuck Norris re Walker. It’s not even getting permission because that isn’t needed, it’s just basic respect. I’m very, very firmly in the camp that if Jared had done this to Jensen and treated him like he didn’t matter in the SPN universe, he would have been villified and I wouldn’t have been able to defend it either but here we are, 3 years and a massive flop later, still trying to twist this mess to be Jared’s fault for completely made up reasons.

They “got over it” because Jared was the bigger person and took a hit for Jensen (you’re welcome), but what he said (about the “leak”) was complete b/s, he knows it, his fans know it and even Jensen and his fans know it. Paraphrasing Jared’s words, he had to decide if he wanted to continue a relationship or walk away. Meanwhile Jensen was still being a petulant a/h several months later still not accepting that he’d done anything wrong. And I like Jensen, I just think he was a complete and utter major dick over this entire mess and hasn’t learned anything because people keep defending what he did.

And I personally don’t believe they have got over it, I think Jared has tried for sure but their relationship definitely isn’t the same, and can’t be the same because how tf can you really trust your on screen partner of 15 years ever again with anything after they did this to you?

A rant and theory

It’s really long, but I think I make some valid points.

Supernatural was on for 15 years. There have been interactions with the cast, some crew, some producers, directors, writers, etc. due to the ongoing conventions and the existence of social media. Writers will talk about changes to scripts, actors will talk about filming, directors will talk about why they chose a certain angle.

Given that most of the fans/stans do not personally know any of the people involved or personally know anything about the things that are/aren’t going on, it’s weird the way some fans/stans speak so confidently about what happened with SPN behind-the-scenes, production, writing, casting, you name it! 

Especially when it comes to PrequelGate. People will state with their whole chest, that their version of events is absolutely correct. One J is an asshole, and one J is an innocent baby. Which J is which depends on who is talking. It can be either or both. The only thing that all fans who have theories have in common is that there is a definite good guy and a bad guy.

But the Js are still friends. They say they got over it and forgave. Since no one has given any details, I thought I’d join the bandwagon and come up with a theory of my own. One where there is no good guy/bad guy. So here goes.

I fully believe that the story of The Winchesters was not meant to be an AU. It was supposed to take place between 15.19 and 15.20, with Dean and Sam finding out about their parents.  They had to switch it to the AU version because of the leak, a new timetable, and the fact that Jared was no longer available. There is also a recent podcast (I don't have a link) where a writer from The Winchesters said that Robbie Thompson, the writer and show runner for The Winchesters, kind of knew that they were only going to get 1 season because of all the mergers/sales of the networks and studios.

Robbie Thompson said in an interview (https://tvline.com/news/the-winchesters-recap-season-1-finale-dean-heaven-multiverse-jensen-ackles-1234942742/)  “There was the spot that takes place in between Episodes 19 and 20, when what happens to Dean happens to Dean… So there was an opportunity to tell stories there, but that just didn’t work for me because we wouldn’t have access to Sam in that way, in a way that we could easily explain or at least emotionally explain, and that just didn’t feel like it was a story that certainly I wanted to tell and none of us did.” (Underlining mine) They wouldn’t have access to Sam because Jared could not be involved. Not because no one wanted him, but because he just couldn’t.

The reason I believe this is because of the following.

It starts with Virtual Con (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADYwrZ787a0) held in March 2021. In the video, the question about Chaos Machine projects starts at around 23 minutes. Watch Jared’s face throughout Jensen’s whole answer. He’s nodding along, looking at his screen, and not even showing the slightest surprise in what Jensen is saying. He doesn’t because he already knows. To me, that is the face of someone who already knows what the other person is talking about. Jared already knows which projects Jensen is working on. He knows which alum he is talking about. So he just sits there and lets Jensen answer.  His quip at the end that he will also be acting in it is just that, a quip for the fans.  Because (supposedly) he is bound by a 5-year contract to CBS. He can not legally get involved in Jensen’s project with WB. He can acknowledge that he knows about it, but he has to show that he is absolutely not involved. 

Next is the announcement of The Winchesters in June 2021 by Deadline. There were tweets by Jared that said he was upset that he didn’t know about it and that he wasn’t involved. There was also a tweet directed at Robbie Thompson calling him a back stabber that was later deleted. And, silence from Jensen, because he was unable to come online and address anything because he was on set in Canada. 

Things were set in motion that were not meant to be put in motion for a while. I don’t think Chaos Machine was ready to start casting/filming yet. I think Jensen and Jared were trying to make it work with CBS so that Jared could be involved in the prequel. But those talks weren’t finished, or possibly even started yet. But the leak by Deadline, the WB/Discovery merger, and Mark Pedowitz leaving, combined to put pressure to do the show sooner, while Pedowitz was still in charge. If they waited, then nothing might come of Chaos Machine’s deal with WB once the new owners came in. Maybe they were waiting for Jensen to finish shooting The Boys to get together and talk about all this, but they still hadn't.

And this is what Jared was upset about. He thought there was time before the show would start, so was surprised that it was announced without him knowing. It also explains why he thought Robbie Thompson back-stabbed him. Because he was going to be a part of this show, and now he couldn’t. He couldn’t even say he had been part of the development from the beginning because it would be against his contract with CBS. He can’t even say wants to be a part of it now, because again, it would be against his contract with CBS. He’s upset, because he hasn’t had any communication from Jensen about this going through, and Jensen was also unreachable. So he vented online a little.

Once this narrative that Jared was never involved, and would not appear in it, spread, all of them had to run with it. Jensen apologized for not telling Jared. He said he was superstitious. He wanted to tell Jared, but he didn’t have his phone. That he was on set. That Jared couldn’t participate because he was busy. Etc. etc.

But, when Jared spoke with Jensen, and was (possibly) made aware that the news came out because it was leaked, and that they didn’t have time to clue Jared in, and (possibly) they were thinking of doing the show sooner because of WB, Pedowitz, Zaslav, etc., and that they were still in a holding phase, Jared forgave Jensen.

All of the above explains the inconsistencies and “lies” and “tantrums” and finally the forgiveness, and moving on. 

I choose to believe that neither Jared nor Jensen are entitled assholes. They do not owe the fans any BTS details.

I’m sure people can tear this apart, but their theories don’t hold up either. 

[july-19th-club]

another patented *interesting spn concept that comes up like five times in fifteen years but has enough potential to build an entire show around if you wanted to* is the whole celestial eugenics of what it takes to build an archangelic vessel - i.e., that if you want a human body durable enough to withstand the strain of that cosmic essence for long-term possessions, you have to breed it in over generations and then keep the line going just in case your archangel wants to stroll the earth at any point, so you’ve got these families who are essentially constructed by the celestial bureaucracy specifically so that the big four can have cars in the garage so to speak, and individuals who’ve been pulled into this include the main characters and their own parents, and the violation of autonomy and choice that that entails even before any of these people are even taken as vessels is astounding and the implications of it have what i’d definitely call narrative reverberations - and they have this explanation so that there was a good structural reason for why the main characters were doing main character stuff like hosting archangels and then THAT’S ALL SHE WROTE . and presumably this is going on for more than just lucifer and mike. raphael always manifests as black (but unlike his brothers, seems to have no preference between presenting male or presenting female) and one would assume that he is choosing people who are (even distantly) related - and gabriel, do we ever even acknowledge the fact that he presumably also must take a vessel? unless his particular gifts mean that he doesn’t need to do that, since he’s shapeshifting all the time anyway. it’s like...in s12 lucifer goes through swaths of humans until he finds a vessel with enough durability to walk around in for longer than a couple minutes, and when he was in cas it was brought up i think that it wasn’t a long-term solution and the body formerly housing jimmy novak would eventually burn up with cas still in it - but like............can we talk about that? can we write a whole saga about the four (or more) families who all seem to do fascinating, involved things in their histories but whose existence is (unbeknownst to most of them) explicitly to function as michael waves or whatever. spn’s biggest storytelling problem is that it brings up stuff that is objectively horrifying and it is a horror show but the stuff that’s truly most cosmically, psychologically scary it treats as no big deal 

[catsconflictscopicsandchamomile]

oh thank the GODS im not the only one seeing the parallels and calling this out as the just-another-blatant-antichrist-plotline it is.

on that note I have other questions

are we doing Pagan gods??? like Rome gods? because the scary smart woman-that-I-assume-that-is-a-goddess with OVERWHELMING Cas Vibes said we're doing Rome.

why do we need even more Campbell drama. both sides of this family is FUCKED, we get it. how are these people even related to Mary

going directly off of that... ok do we all think that's John or Azazel IN John.... in... another guy. bc John is famously torture-averse but also he was saying some Extremely Specific John Winchester Things and his name is based on a Han Solo quote so. idfk. either way fuck allllll the way off with this shit.

so is Marie With The Stigmata On Her Hands the Second Coming then? only a few eps into Gen V she was all like "they're going to crucify me!" and I mean. she wasn't wrong. and we all know she's not actually dead. (she rly exploded his dick off huh. damn)

so that one-off ep of spnwin with the celtic/roman fusion gods was a warning, huh? "celtiberian" seems to be the running vibe here

what's Cate's whole deal? Faerie chick crying blood with mind control powers. Banshee? Bean Nighe? is she possibly ONE OF THE MORRIGAN?

Victoria scares me, that's just a statement but it had to be said

...ok this one's a stretch, ik he looks 18 but timelines are wonky rn.... is that. is that Our Sam. you know what I mean. this isn't exactly our first "Magic Little Brother Sam With A Fluffy Mullet Who Hallucinates Annoyingly Charismatic Demons From His Time In The Torture Box, Who Currently Cant Feel Emotions Because Reasons" rodeo, and I'm worried about him.

(related, MASSIVE side-eye to the name "Luke Riordan". ...sure buddy...)

what the fuck is Good Omens!Beelzebub even doing here besides causing trouble and torturing Sam because I guess the Princes of Hell are just really into fucking with this one specific guy

was that???? purgatory??? since when is Hell allowed to set up Hell Things in there????

what is Bobby doing, period. is that even Bobby.

WHEN is Dean. 2020s, 1940s, 1980s, 2020s again, 1970s, who knows when he is now. since when can he time travel, actually how many new powers does he HAVE, we've seen firebreath and the ability to turn off other creatures' magic. what... what IS Dean, currently. like what kind of creature is that. maybe a dragon?

(yes. i mapped the plot of The Boys onto spn. yes i like The Boys as its own show. no, idk why I did this either)

i need to put ryan and jack in a glass jar together like really cool bugs

[lol-jackles]

https://twitter.com/artbyiliana/status/1564764796909674496?s=20&t=_Es6c1mypUA6QCQF8_t52w

I'm sure a bunch of people have sent you this already but what's your take? Do you think they have somehow copyrighted "Winchesters" so no one can use it?? Is that even possible? And while the studio might be the ones behind this since "the Studio (capitalized..)" will apparently be in the vendors room weeding out people but I can't help but still be pissed at Jensen for this. He started this ball rolling. And now not only is he squeezing out Jared and Jared/Sam fans but now they're squeezing out vendors as well? People who have been there at cons for YEARS supporting them? Wasn't enough to take over the legacy, they had to take over the name and merch too. Can't wait to see what shitty af merch the put out for the show... I would assume that's their plan since they won't let anyone else sell anything with the name anymore. It's also just so stupid, hey, guess what guys, you can't sell spn merch at an spn con anymore!! Also, way to absolutely alienate even more people from your show. And vendors were probably a few willing to watch so they could make merch to sell at cons... Just great work all around.

Jensen's team should have had the foresight to anticipate the issue of using "The Winchesters", which anybody would have known that it is a common enough name that somebody would have already copyright it. But Jensen never was a good businessman and every non-acting buslness-related decision I've seen him make causes my eye to twitch.

While WB doesn't want to get into hot waters with copyright holders may be the main reason why they're putting a kibosh on unofficial merchs, they are also hoping that against all odds that The Winchesters become another merchandise goldmine so they want to get ahead of it. Remember the surplus Castiel calendars that they had to give away for free? That was because they feared Jared would not return for season 11 and went ahead and over-ordered those Cas calendars if Misha is promoted to 2nd lead when Jensen is promoted to 1st lead.

WB may have hoped that Jensen has managed to rediscover the lost art of alchemy.  Instead, he has taken gold and presented the target audience of teenagers with a lesser metal.

[autisticandroids]

hello i would like to know more about the idea of using cas to deconstruct having a body. mayhaps for trueform art reasons.

interesting. so like, i have various thoughts on how angels relate to their vessels but basically it comes down to like... a vessel isn’t a body. it’s an anchor in the corporeal plane that the angel is tied to, and a tool through which it can interface with that plane. 

this is why flight is so disorienting - it involves being pulled inside the angel’s true form, and then flown through the angelic plane, then landing back in the corporeal plane and being disgorged again. like warp bubbles on star trek. it’s extraplanar travel. it’s tessering from a wrinkle in time. space folding.

(the idea that angels can pull things inside themselves to travel comes partly from angel blades, since they come out of angels' sleeves in a way that seems to imply they're kind of being conjured. i also tend to believe that an angel blade is a part of the angel that wields it (or is meant to), like, a kind of part of their body. cas seems to be able to identify other angels' blades by name, which is suggestive).

and i'm a big fan of the idea that angels - being custom built, created creatures, rather than born members of a species - are all unique. they're literally built differently. this fic does a really interesting job portraying that. i kind of echoed what i liked about it in my own angel trueformy fic here.

i’m also strongly of the opinion that a fallen angel’s trueform is still attached to its vessel, it’s just graceless - paralyzed or perhaps dead. this endverse fic which i read many years ago and then rediscovered recently has a very memorable scene in which cas begs dean to cut off his wings which is the partial inspiration for this headcanon. this other endverse fic which i only discovered this week has a pleasingly graphic description of cas’ wings rotting, though they’re too sensical and corporeal for my tastes (i’m inclined to think that the wing shadows we see when angels are peacocking don’t correspond to anything real; rather, they are the idea of wings. though i’m a big fan of the wing shadows being at least indicative of something, i definitely subscribe to this interpretation of cas’ broken feathers in lazarus rising. there is definitely some damage, just... not actual broken feathers on an actual pair of bird wings that actually spring from cas’ shoulders). 

also, fallen angels who fall slowly (cas in season five) and fallen angels who fall by having their grace ripped out (anna; cas in season nine) probably have significantly different experiences of this - a slowly falling angel is going to experience the slow onset of paralysis, their body failing and finally shutting down. a quickly falling angel is just going to be a consciousness trapped in a human body, with access to some vague angelic senses and a feeling of something attached to them. other angels will be able to see their angelic corpse, but they won’t.

this is a bit of a tangent but i do think that angels who fall (as in lose their grace), if they go to a human afterlife at all and not the empty, a topic which i’m ambivalent on, are automatically damned to hell when they die, because they either decided to give up god’s grace willingly or were punished by heaven, or so it is assumed. obviously this isn’t always the case, sometimes you get your grace stolen by a rogue angel with a vendetta, or vampirized, or whatever, but god didn’t foresee all those circumstances. (also super turbo tangent but i have some thoughts on the spn afterlives which includes more angel stuff here).

(way off topic but i think it's also relevant my thoughts on god).

my impression when the angels fall (as in lose their wings) at the end of s8 is that they lose any form of locomotion within the angelic plane. like, what we call flying is likely more like swimming, it is the only way to move through that plane. wingless angels who cannot find vessels are left adrift with no way to move, at the mercy of currents and perhaps other angels and angel-like beings. 

(also, speaking of mutilation of the trueform, i have some thoughts here on cas' trueform post-godstiel).

also like you know how atoms are like... probability spaces? or like, electron orbits are. like every electron in an atom has an orbit, which is a space within the atom that it has a high probability of being. but that probability isn’t 100%. theoretically the electrons in an atom could be anywhere in the universe. their existence in a specific space is a probability curve. anyway i think angels are like that, and i think they’re more like that without a vessel. like an angel without a vessel is much more nebulous, its probability curve is flatter. an angel with a vessel is anchored to that vessel and so exists in a much more concentrated way in a much smaller space (smaller being relative - cas’ trueform is the size of the chrysler building after all, and it seems that that’s when he’s envesseled). that’s not to say that an angel with no vessel is uniform throughout the universe, only that it’s more nebulous.

but this also connects to the idea that heaven could be made up of angels - if an angel kind of exists very thinly in every place at once, it makes sense that they could be running around with their vessels but still forming the fabric of a physical place. this also plays into the hivemind aspect of angels - if they’re a little bit everywhere then they’re a little bit together always. also everywhere meaning everywhere in the angelic plane - i’m not sure how that translates to the corporeal plane. i’m inclined to feel like they’re separate unless an angel intentionally pushes through the veil to take a vessel.

(sidenote: i don't think angel vessels work like demon vessels in that they die when a mortal wound is inflicted upon them; it seems like angels keep their hosts in a sort of stasis. the only thing that can kill an angel's vessel while possessed is the angel losing their grace and becoming human while possessing them, or the angel dying while possessing them. sider-note: insane what this suggests about endverse cas since canonically jimmy novak didn't die til swan song).

(another sidenote: this is why it takes so much alcohol to get an angel drunk: it's not the human body which is experiencing intoxication, but the massive eldritch horror the size of the chrysler building).

so this is kind of a dump of trueform headcanons, but i feel like it's fairly useful set up for how i talk about cas relating to his body/vessel.

essentially, i think of it being like a handpuppet or a prosthetic to him, something he uses to interact with the world but not actually his body in a meaningful sense. it's a tool. a resource.

i don't think he breathes except to speak, i don't think his heart beats, i think that if he had to move through water he would just zoom with his trueform rather than swimming. like, he heals the trenchcoat as much as the body, i think he considers the coat and the vessel approximately equally integral.

i think that he can manipulate the flesh of his vessel however he likes; this is how healing works, both himself and humans around him. this is also why dean's fist clanged like metal when he hit him in lucifer rising, but dean could stab him in lucifer rising: cas was holding his face there in lucifer rising, but not doing that in lazarus rising. i think that in order to walk or talk or anything, cas is manually sending nerve impulses like the world's most complicated gundam.

i also don't think he uses human senses to perceive. there are two big things for this. first, the lazarus rising opener, where cas is shot and stabbed and doesn't seem to notice. the knife doesn't bounce off him, it goes straight through him, he just doesn't mind. he looks down at it with amusement. and we know cas can feel pain, it's just generally only when inflicted via angelic means that can actually harm his true form. second, the "tastes like molecules" thing: you can't taste molecules with a human tongue, obviously. so i don't think he's seeing/tasting/feeling/hearing/smelling etc. through his vessel's senses, or if he is, they're intensely supplemented with the senses of his trueform.

in the end, it's basically that his vessel is very much not him. it's not his body. it's a special glove he wears to touch things. it's literally like this:

[catsconflictscopicsandchamomile]

okay! fair warning, I am a Beowulf scholar at a fairly serious level (archeology major, medieval studies minor, presenting at a major conference in February) but I will do my best to keep this brief and easy to understand. (update: failed miserably, this is VERY long, but the controversy, and the spn of it all, is very complicated to explain)

I assume the controversy you've run into is that nobody is quite sure what Grendel's Mother IS, as she and her son are never given physical description, or clearly labeled as any type of creature. Scholars have debated whether they are human, monstrous, nature spirits/Fae, or even pagan gods. The text describes them as related to giants (lit. "Jotun"), elves, "evil phantoms", etc. However, they are confirmed to have one clear relative in existing mythology- Cain.

They're descendants of Cain, and they bear Cain's curse to:

-wander forever, on the edges of civilization, never to settle

-keep the company of monster and ghosts in forgotten places

-die violently and tragically

-be hated by God for some reason, to the point that God blesses & protects those who try to kill them (genuinely what did they do to deserve this. they're just a couple of *SPECIES REDACTED* trying to live their lives)

....hey does this sound familiar?

That's all we know for sure about what Grendel & Mother are in terms of species. For Grendel himself, we get a few physical details:

-he's a giant. unspecified HOW big, but far bigger than any human has right to be.

-he eats people and drinks their blood

-he's extremely strong, immune to weapons (so, swords/blades/arrows, given the time period), and likely has a tough hide and/or claws.

-he has extremely enhanced hearing, and his ability to hear the local vikings partying it up a few miles away seems to be what drives him to seek out and eat them. many/most later interpretations of Grendel have the noise prevent him from sleeping and/or invoke some kind of religious agony due to his nature as a child of Cain (vikings in this era were just beginning to be Chrisitan- and doing it very loudly)

HEY DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR.

as for Mother, we get little-to-no clue as to what she looked like. She has some degree of magic, and is an extremely skilled combatant. while she has claws (and is likely very large herself) she prefers to use what the poem describes as a "broad-whetted knife", opting to get on top of Beowulf and stab at him from above.

re: plot, Mother shows up after Beowulf mortally wounds Grendel. the giant flees home and dies on the shore of the lake where he & Mother lived. Driven by grief for her son, Mother attacks the hall, and kills King Hrothgar's top advisor, leaving his severed head on the edge of her territory as a "fuck off" message. this is important because it follows the viking law of "weregild"- if someone kills your kin, and doesnt pay you for their life, you can kill one of their kin. She took one man in payment for her son, and DESPITE THIS, Beowulf tracks her to her own lair, her own HOME, engages her in combat, and kills her- this breaches the law and social code of the time.

in terms of her name: she doesn't have one. Her entire identity and existence is defined by her son- her protection of him, her rage and grief at his death, and the revenge that leads to her own slaughter.

hey.... does this sound familia- *drowns in my own tears*

however she has two main "kennings", which are like titles or nicknames.

the first one is "Merewif" or "Mere-wife". A "Mere" (pronounced "meer" or "mire") is a swamp, bog or briny area. Think of this as something like "Mermaid MILF" with a swampier vibe. or, think of throwing pronunciation out the window, using "Merie"/"Mere" as a nickname, and crying about it. ....that's what I do.

the second kenning is much more complicated because it uses two words that have no modern equivalent*

the kenning itself is "Ides, Aglaecwif"

"Ides" or "Idis" is a title of respect for a queen or noblewoman, and is used to refer to other female royalty in Beowulf. it is also used commonly to refer to female goddesses, especially Valkyries, in other sources (good luck getting the image & thematic implications of Valkyrie!Dean out of your head)

"Aglaecwif" is a combination of "wif" (wife or woman) and "Aglaeca"

"Aglaeca" is.... sure one of the words ever. nobody knows the true root, but its theorized to come from roots meaning "pain/warlike/ache" and "demonstrate/perform/ritual". it is used to describe supernatural (sry I have no better word to use here) or awe-inspiring combatants (and in extremely rare cases, ppl who are impressive for other reasons) but can be used for both heroes and villains. "Aglaeca" is used to refer to:

-Beowulf

-Grendel

-Mother

-the dragon that eventually kills Beowulf

due to this ambiguity, a lot of modern translations opt to translate "Aglaeca" differently depending on who its referring to, meaning that its modern definition is best listed as:

"hero, warlike, brave, valiant/ wretch, demon, monster, accursed"

or you could just define is as "Winchester" and be right. ....and then cry about it.

*ok, technically the best possible translation of "Aglaeca" is "Supe" but I don't have to like that fact.

overall, "Ides, Aglaecwif" has been variously translated as "monster woman", "hell-bride", "warrior woman", "warrior queen", "hag/ogress"

(or if you're me and can't be normal about ANYTHING, "Soldier Girl, Bride Of Hell". its technically an accurate translation.)

so um. yeah.

THIS IS FUCKING DEPRESSING.

and. idk. it gives me so many emotions. agh. oh my heart. why can they never escape this cycle of wandering, hiding, hunting, death, maternal grief, rage and revenge. let them be. just let them be

...she has no name or identity outside of her son. she clearly loved him but they were never able to find peace bc God cursed them and he grew to be so much bigger than her and she couldn't keep him away from eating people and then he-

fuck. fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

WHAT RIGHT DOES A 1500 YEAR OLD POEM HAVE TO CAUSE ME THIS MUCH *PAIN*

Fun fact of the day, anytime someone compares Dean Winchester to Mother Mary, I take -20 psychic damage

It ruins me horrendously, keep doing it