#for a certain part of the fandom at least

[msfbgraves]

Fanfic authors have been getting increasingly horribly exploited in the past five years especially. Our work stolen to feed AI that is then being used to put other writers out of work. Wattpad antics. The reselling of plagiarised works published for free. And then this trend of not including an author in the gushing about the works. That is like holding a birthday party for a person to share how much you love them, only not inviting them. Because your love for that person is personal to you and your other friends and none of the celebrated person's business. You're shy! You don't know what to say!

I have been incredibly lucky on having had a lot of engagement on Tumblr in the Silverusso fandom, but I have been in other fandoms whose works are still on Ao3 and also still being clicked on, for what purpose I don't know. But with the current climate, I don't feel like adding much more to other fandoms there especially. There's a few Cherik fics I have toyed with updating, but haven't been inspired enough for, knowing that it's like a lottery nowadays. Sure, the effort could pay off, but what is more likely to happen, at least when posting on Ao3 alone, is mocking silence. Deep in my heart I know that some people will be made happier if I did do it, but knowing that others will use it only to enrich themselves is not a joyful thought at all.

Love will get your fanfic authors a long way in sharing their stories, but if they get nothing at all in return, while knowing that people may even be stealing it for their own ends; that is not an environment conducive to writing. It's an abusive relationship, and we all know that not doing anything beats being in an abusive relationship.

I mean, theoretically my works and other works are being enjoyed because there is an outcry when Ao3 is down. But there is a reason people applaud after live performances. If they didn't, people would stop doing it! Even when the reasons to start doing it are mostly altruistic on the artist's part. Everybody tells you in life to stop putting your efforts where they're not actively appreciated. I mean, did Cinderella's stepfamily enjoy the efforts of her labour? Did it enrich them? Likely yes! Would you have encouraged her to keep providing it, even if she may have started out of love for her family's home? Girl no! Even this kind hearted girl left, because that is what you do when your efforts are unappreciated and exploited, even when they're clearly of value.

If I simply posted and got zero response - no engagement even, I could say the fault was mine. Either for being in the wrong place or doing the wrong thing. But when there is engagement, but no appreciation and people are hawking it somewhere, which I now know they are through the mere existence of AI, adding more is an actively stupid thing to do.

I'm not blaming readers exactly, I'm just pointing out that when you're getting no appreciation and are being exploited, continuing to do something isn't wise and stopping an activity (in this case, writing fic) is a rational decision to make! There's more rewarding things anyone could be doing, even if the activity itself is of much value!

Maybe I will post more in some old fandoms or even new ones, but right now, the only thing that could really compel me to post anything when I am not 100% certain there already is an active audience is an obsession so strong it overrides logic. And that will get you some fic, but not multiple longfics, I assure you.

And no updates. Things that aren't nourished die.

A writer friend told me something that broke my heart a little bit today; they're going to quit publishing their fanfic.

My instant thought was that they had been trolled or attacked or that something terrible had happened in their life because this person is so passionate about their writing. It wasn't any of that. Engagement with their works has been going down, as it has for many of us. Comments are like gold dust a lot of the time, and just looking through the historical comment counts on old fics on ao3 demonstrates this trend very clearly. It was not simply the comments dropping off which caused them to decide to stop posting, however.

My friend came across a discord server for their fandom (I should point out here that their fandom interest and mine diverged a couple of years ago, we stay in touch but don't currently read each other's posts because I'm not into their fandom and they would rather gouge their eyes out with a wooden spoon than read anything Star Wars) and specifically to share fic in that fandom. They joined, because we all love a good fic rec, only to discover that their latest multichapter fic, which has almost no comments and very few kudos, is being hotly discussed in this server as one of the best stories ever. Not one of these people has bothered to say this to them on the fic. When they asked, none of participants could see the point in telling the author of the fic they apparently loved so much that they love it.

This discovery has absolutely destroyed my friend's love of sharing fic. They share because they love seeing other people's enjoyment, and fic writers do that through comments and kudos/reblogs/likes because we don't get paid. There is no literary critic writing a blog post/article about how amazing the story is for us to copy and keep/frame. There is no money from royalties. All we have are the words of the people reading our works.

Those people on that server could have taken five minutes of the time they spent gushing about how amazing my friend's story was to other people and used it to tell the one person guaranteed to want to hear that praise how much they loved it. They could have taken a moment to express their opinion to the person who spent hours upon hours plotting, writing, editing, and posting those chapters. Instead, they deprived my friend of thing that keeps them sharing their writing, and in the process have killed their love of it. My friend now feels used and unmotivated.

I won't be sharing a link to their fic, they said I could share their experience but not their identity. I know they plan to post one final chapter. I know they intend to express their hurt at being excluded from the praise for the thing they created, and I know they intend to announce that as a consequence they will not be posting for a long while, if at all.

So please, I beg you, don't hide your love of a story from the writer. It's just about the only thing we have.

[akookminsupporter]

Sorry for the skz fan but... i dont really think they are lol

They are doing better in terms of streams than other bgs (but worse than ggs) and they have a lot of sales like any other bgs cause the fans inflate the sales. Bts with the same year (i think 5?) were already top10 on hot100 and all the charts made sense (number 1 on bb200 and top10 on hot100).

A lot of these groups are only able to go to these awards shows and be nominated (kpop categories) bcs bts made it possible, but i dont think they will ever leave bts shadow

Maybe ive been too harsh sorry lol but yeah they are not there yet and i dont think their music is going to take them there either (they are not even successfull in their own country - only on sales bcs of the 2973 versions)

In my initial post about this, I made it clear that my question wasn’t about streaming numbers because I know that when it comes to that, no one comes close to BTS. Even Jimin and Jungkook, as solo artists, have streaming figures that other groups haven’t achieved even if you combined their entire discographies. So no, my point wasn’t necessarily about streaming success or chart dominance although that's an important part of this conversation.

What I’m really referring to is the general interest in the Western market. For instance, another group that is often mentioned alongside BTS is BP. From what I’ve seen, they don’t have the same numbers, records, or awards that BTS has earned over the years and their popularity seems to be driven more by their individual projects, which are often unrelated to music, like brand endorsements, fashion appearances, or acting roles but despite this, Western mainstream media frequently references them as references to KPOP.

BTS’s success and interest in them have definitely been because of their music and their fans. Those are the key things you always hear or read about when people talk about them, and that’s not something I’ve noticed happening with other groups. Even when you move away from social media—where many groups are incredibly popular—you hardly see them mentioned in specialised press or mainstream media in general.

In my everyday life, I know plenty of people who’ve at least heard of BTS and even of Jimin. Jimin, in particular, seems to have some serious name recognition among locals. They might not know his music and a lot of the time, they don’t even know what he looks like, but they’ve definitely heard his name. At least, that’s been the case with the locals I know. I just don’t see that happening with other groups.

Anon mentioned examples where SKZ has broken through certain barriers in the West, but maybe it’s not as consistent. I think one major thing other groups are lacking—and it’s a big disadvantage—is the kind of fandom they have. ARMY is a fandom that’s almost as well-known as BTS itself. It’s massive, and despite its size, it’s surprisingly organised in many ways.

What’s more, ARMY generates a lot of interest because, at the end of the day, the goal of any market is to sell and to have people ready and willing to buy. The sheer scale and dedication of ARMY make it an undeniable force. It’s not just about supporting BTS; it’s also about creating a presence that attracts attention from all kinds of industries. That’s a level of influence that other groups and their fandoms just don’t seem to have yet.

[blossoms-phan]

as a post-comeback phannie all of the self referential lore and nostalgia is kind of the best part for me. when i started watching them i genuinely didn't know anything about them beyond 'the people tumblr shipped who ended up being gay' and obviously the videos are all fun and entertaining but the thing that makes me insane is the twelve layers of lore and meta-narrative surrounding everything they do, and the whole we know you know of it all. there's just so much of it and every time i find a new piece i feel like a historian piecing together ancient documents trying to figure out what's been going on for the past 15 years. both in terms of their relationship (every day i discover a new piece of 2009 history that causes absolutely lethal psychic damage) but also just like, sometimes they post a new video and i get to learn they're a canonical part of the lion king universe and incorporate that into my worldview.

in terms of comparing them to their old selves, when I go back and watch old stuff sometimes they both (but especially dan) seem so, like... rigidly controlled and tense in a way that is just SO striking to me as someone whose main frame of reference for them is post-hiatus dapg. like to me the happy, out gay dan we have now is the default dan and sometimes i stumble across old clips of him and just get sad. free him from the closet :(

also when they released the pinof reaction videos I didn't even know what pinof was, but between then and now i've gotten so fucking phanniepilled i actually gasped when i got the notif for the amazingdan reaction lmao

hi anon!! thank you so much for taking the time to share, I love having insight into a perspective of them as a viewer that is so different to my own experience. as a longtime phannie who is also on the side of like someone who is now an adult but just a kid when i started watching them and basically grew up with them the way I experience fandom is sooo different now compared to like, 2016, and though the old lore and analysis of everything they do was always like there I hadn’t participated or been part of this whole meta-introspection of what they share until now and it truly feels like we’ll never run out of things to say about their sheer soulmatism- also phannies are just very smart and cool and it feels like there’s a certain level of intellectualism that plays into phannieism fr. also yeah there is just… SO much lore like you will literally see people who have been around forever being like I have never heard or seen this before and they are seemingly always prepared to emotionally devastate us or at least gives us crumbs to suck up with new little tidbits.

in terms of their past selves yeah, it is so lovely to experience them at their happiest and most carefree and comfortable and quite honestly healed versions of themselves now but the difference in old videos is stark. some are really genuinely sad to see but another thing is that someone who grew up watching them I can’t quite break out of being able to find any content from that time comforting still, and it’s nice to still be able to pick out the happy moments from some of the more rigid ones.

that is SO funny to me lmaoooo but im so glad you’re here in the trenches with us. welcome, you are possibly never leaving now, the cat whiskers are forever <3

[nalyra-dreaming]

A few thoughts about Louis and being sidelined / supporting in s3.

I'll preface this - again - to say that this "supporting" is nothing I want. It is simply something that's been said, and set to happen from the get go, and before it really hits I would like to get my thoughts on it out.

Under the cut, imagine the Ao3 disclaimer here, please, so read on your own volition:

Over the last few days I have seen posts triggered by the awards mostly, but also seen "the discussion" on discords and in DMs.

"The discussion" being the fear of a black character being sidelined once more, as has happened so many times before.

Which is unfortunately a more than valid fear, but one that I find difficult to address, in this fandom, but also especially in this setup of the show.

Because:

The show set them up for this fall, this trap from the very beginning.

I'm not saying this to invalidate the fear, nor point a finger going "it was always there!!", no, I'm pointing this out because in the joy and relief to have a lead like that - to have Jacob in a role like that, to have representation like that - it is often overlooked that it was all very much deliberate.

This Louis is more, thankfully. He has eclipsed book Louis for me, and I am extremely grateful, because this Louis is so much more.

He was created as more, too.

And he was created... for Lestat.

I am not trying to be hyperbolic here. Or argumentative. Rolin Jones said in the season one podcast, when asked how these "famously white men" could make Louis black, that they came at Louis through Lestat. Crafted him, so he would appeal to Lestat. (Episode 8 of the IWTV podcast)

The show reimagined Louis, and brilliantly so, and Jacob lifted him to something truly special, but the switch we are about to witness was always set to come. Louis, "the" vampire of IWTV (the book), was sidelined after said book in the VC as well, Anne had to leave him behind, imho, because he was her stand-in for the very real pain of losing her daughter.

This won't happen here, at least not in that capacity.

Thankfully.

But it will still feel grating.

Because the black lead of the first season (which was split in half by covid, therefore giving us more) will take the step back. Become supporting.

And no matter what they will do, that will look... bad to some extent at the very least.

And it was inevitable from the get-go, unfortunately.

Because this is the setup they chose.

It won't be fair, it is not fair. It was always inevitable doing the VC.

These things... can and do co-exist in this show. A two-edged sword, in a way. To have a lead like Jacob, brilliantly reimagined, but knowing by recasting him color-consciously they are setting themselves up for the backlash, from the get go.

I have no doubt this backlash will come. It will come with accusations of racism, of them "wanting to push out the black character." Of them wanting to finally get to their "white hero", "look at AMC, they can finally promote as they want to", have already started. I have seen sentiments of the teaser at SDCC being already "more" than what Jacob "got".

I get where these statements come from.

I get that. I get the frustration, and also the very real context it stems from, in our so unfair world.

I get wanting, and needing the representation. I get wanting and needing to keep Jacob.

I get that what they did with Lestat in s1, and especially episode 1x05 and 1x06 that realizing he will be lead will feel like a slap to the face for some, no matter the revelations of 2x08.

I get that this feels like a trap, and the show is walking right into it, deliberately.

It’s just been... "a trap" that‘s been set up from the beginning, and to a large part intentionally.

And I say that completely understanding the feelings on the matter: it is, and unfortunately so.

Which leaves us... where?

I don't know. The disappointment and apprehension of seeing it happening is understandable and very much based on real experience after all. Which does not negate that it would have happened in this show in any case, because, well... it's the Vampire Chronicles. And Lestat.

And they are doing the books, even closer than I anticipated.

Closer, too, than I, personally, would have wanted them to(!), for some parts, because some of these stories... do and will come with similar "traps".

So ultimately, with what's to come I hope...that they manage to give Louis the "more" they obviously try to give him. I hope that will work(!). I hope the change won't feel too grating.

[lethaldefect]

Okay, I wasn't supposed to answer because it's Christmas and I'm lazy, but I'm enjoying this discussion too much XD

First of all - my first post was a mental shortcut, written under the influence of emotions and everyone who was supposed to understand did.

From the important issues - I consider all the things that were shown or said in the series directly to be obvious. Personally, I don’t agree with the practice of "selling" and explaining certain plotlines and information only through books, short stories, or creators’ Twitter posts. If something wasn’t clearly stated in the show or was presented dogmatically, it’s either undeveloped or nonexistent to me. I’m not talking about subliminally conveyed information, but TDP writers don’t excel at conveying things indirectly anyway.

The whole point of my post is that we don’t have clear and detailed answers to the issues I’m discussing. I’m not interested in vague generalities. As long as I have questions (and they’re not about unnecessary details), the plotline isn’t resolved for me. Certainly not in a satisfying way. Maybe, as an adult viewer who’s been part of the fandom since the beginning and works in a similar industry, my expectations are too high. But personally, I believe I have every right to have expectations. Especially since there are plenty of sister series with far fewer plot holes and missteps.

But getting to the point:

If this is enough of an answer for you, great! I’m glad you’re satisfied and find it sufficient. But I know that for many people, this information feels like "this doesn’t actually explain anything." Especially since Zubeia presented the information about Aaravos’ imprisonment with the sentence "we all loved him, but suddenly it turned out that for thousands of years he was making some revolutions, so we locked him up". Honey, what revolutions? What exactly did he do to warrant such a severe punishment? Did he even have a chance to defend himself? What’s his version of the story? Why, despite dragons’ hatred for humans, did everyone believe some human girl without batting an eye, and even let humans work on his prison? Xadia loved him for centuries after Leola’s death. What happened to suddenly make him the most hated being in the world?

Here’s a serious plot hole – Zubeia herself admitted that Aaravos is so powerful and dangerous that even all the Archdragons couldn’t defeat him. That’s why they conspired against him and used a moment of weakness to imprison him. But to do that, they needed the help of Akiyu, a human mage, and the Orphan Queen. They themselves admit that they wouldn't have defeated him without a trick. So, what was the trick? Either Aaravos was so arrogant that he let his guard down around them, or they played on his emotions. A fight is, of course, possible too, but surrounding him and expecting he wouldn’t defend himself or kill them would’ve been a risky move.

Again – Sol Regem’s involvement in Leola’s death is just a trigger point. He wasn’t even king at the time. Aaravos, with his power and likely immense political influence, could’ve done anything to him. He didn’t; he chose to play a game with him for centuries. Leola’s death is, of course, one of the reasons – probably the most significant – but that doesn’t mean the story between Aaravos, Sol Regem, and Aithne Solaire is resolved. At least, not for me. As I said, the whole point of these posts is that FOR ME, these are unresolved plotlines. Regarding the Archdragons, we also don’t know what exactly happened to Luna Tenebris, although it seems strongly implied that Aaravos was involved, considering his connection to Aditi’s death, which happened around the same time (btw, does anyone besides Janai even know that Aaravos killed Aditi?). Regarding Zubeia – I mainly fixated on this because she’s probably the only Archdragon in context where Aaravos said, "like the day you betrayed me." Not "they". SHE betrayed him. This isn’t about objectivity; it’s irrelevant here. It’s about impact and context. If Aaravos considers her a traitor, he likely had expectations of her. He viewed the other dragons as arrogant but not Zubeia. He probably didn’t expect her to take part in his imprisonment or allow it and not side with him. Aaravos blames her for betrayal but said Avizandum was the one who caused his imprisonment. Even knowing the Orphan Queen turned him in – for him, it’s Avizandum who’s responsible for his imprisonment, and Zubeia is the traitor. Given Zubeia’s character, I don’t expect she actively participated in imprisoning him. That’s why I said she allowed Avizandum to do it because she didn’t dissuade him from that decision. Of course, I could be wrong, but I have the right to speculate, since we don't know anything about it :D

The Starscraper issue is even more shallow and almost random to me because we know nothing about the Celestial Elves and their actual role. And I don't mean the information that they can't integrate into the affairs of the world, they guard star artifacts blah blah blah.. But the impact of this sect's existence on the world and history. They seem strangely connected to the Stars despite being Skywing Elves. What’s their connection to the Stars, why do they exist, and do they actually do anything important besides guarding artifacts, issuing prophecies (which they tell no one about), and "not meddling in worldly affairs" (which they actually do)? So – Did Aaravos, as the only known Startouch Elf walking the world, have access to the Starscraper? Did he have access to the artifacts stored there before his imprisonment? Was he connected to the Starscraper at all? We’re told he took or stole the staff and crown stones, but maybe he had the right to them.

I know. Aaravos’ connection with Ziard was clear from the beginning. The idea that he might’ve gotten the staff from someone else was just a wild speculation. Although we have no absolute certainty that Aaravos is the only Startouch Elf walking the world.

I love this theory about Elarion! Long before arc 2 I had a theory that he might even have been one of the founders or had a very high position in the city. In any case, it’s the plotline I’m most disappointed didn’t appear. Elarion was the biggest and most important mystery related to Aaravos for me. The series ended, and not a word was said about Elarion.

Again – if the series’ ending is satisfying for you, that’s great. For me, it’s not (which doesn’t mean I didn’t like this season – I liked it a lot; it’s one of my favorites). And the problem is probably mostly with me. I had very high expectations for every season and the series as a whole. I saw so much potential in some plotlines. A lot of potential that wasn't used. So I’m disappointed because I would’ve done it differently if I had the chance.

Why do I think everything about Aaravos is still a mystery? Because what the series explained was never a mystery to me. It just raised more questions than answers. Aaravos’ nature, character, and motives were clear to me even before Season 3. I even predicted he had a daughter who tragically died. After Season 2, I looked at him and said to my friend, "He totally gives girl dad energy. Let’s give him a daughter and kill her to make him sad." So yeah… I didn’t learn anything about him that truly surprised or shocked me. Once again, FOR ME, there are more mysteries than there were before. And I know many people feel the same.

Anyway, thank you for the discussion! I haven’t had this much fun in ages; I feel like that guy with the red strings XD If you want, you can keep it going; I’ll gladly counter.

I hope you didn’t take my responses as an attack, and if you did, I’m very sorry! I hope we get lots of content in Arc 3 (and that we actually get it) because there are so many things worth expanding on more than the main plot.

By the way, MERRY CHRISTMAS!

wait a fucking minute...

We still don't know why and how Aaravos was imprisoned.

And what exactly his beef with Sol Reg and the other archdragons was about.

And what his relationship was with the Orphan Queen.

Oh yeah! And also his relationship with Ziard... and city of Elarion...

DID THEY JUST KILL HIM WITH ABSOLUTELY NO EXPLANATION?

I'M SO PISSED OFF

[pinacoladamatata]

I'm still so mad about the Wyll rewrite actually

[nonbinaryeye]

Ah, never mind, I got kicked out of bg3 big bang because warning explicit description of killing and graphic depiction of violence was not indicative enough of how explicit my writing is. :'))

[maythray]

ii3 still sucked so bad i. really dont get how they messed that one up so bad. and it like Kind Of left little stink lines on ii2 BUT its like. fine its like how my room has always been next to my cats litter box and if you are attentive enough you can smell it faintly always but its been like that long enough that its like. whatever. i still like to be in my room. and all. does this make any sense?

[galacticlamps]

very minor thing I still definitely deserve a medal for:

being raised catholic, and now as an adult repeatedly falling in love with characters that fandoms like to declare catholic, but still managing to reject those headcanons because at heart I'm too much of a stickler for accurate analysis to get behind them when i know the person in question is really meant to be anglican/episcopalian/whatever other flavor of christian

i am being, as the poets say, so brave about it

[deus-and-the-machina]

ngl the worst thing about the xenoblade fandom (which I think is the root cause of a lot of other issues) is that it’s mostly on twitter. I have to subject myself to twitter for any real consistent fan talk or content. legit there's always some new stupid topic of argument ive noticed in the past few weeks on there and its all very silly and frustrating and what im saying is everyone should move to Tumblr. please. for me. 

[fierykitten2]

I have the urge to play Scarlet/Violet while watching Hermitcraft, drawing F-Zero/Pokémon crossover fanart and listening to a playlist of Black Sabbath, Judas Priest and Iron Maiden all at the same time but given I can’t draw my own fanmade Megas/regional variants while watching Hermitcraft and actually knowing what’s going on, I don’t think that’s a good idea

[ebonytails]

Hey everyone, if I opened a Patreon, what would you like to see from me?

I’ve already thought of it as the place to post WIPS of both personal and commission work. But what else would any of you be willing to pay to see?

Would you be interested in Procreate Files? It’s been several years since we last had a Patreon running, so I’d like to know what interests you! Feel free to send me asks or replies to this post!

[fanofcarson]

[kingdomoftyto]

Have you played Ghost Trick? If you like Ace Attorney you might want to check it out

I have not, but I have been sTRONGLY CONSIDERING IT ever since it was first announced for Switch :') I've basically been hopping from one detective fandom to another since like 2013 so why not toss another on the pile?

[vivalasthedas]

i hope when veilguard comes out people will like... let people dissect it and be critical and very 'the curtains were blue symbolized xyz' and not get shitty about that way of engaging with things you enjoy and claiming that any negative opinion is 'fandom drama'.

like for sure if you don't like talking about that shit, great, don't engage, leave it alone. But the amount of times you'll be having a perfectly fun talk about biowares Unfortunate Implications because of their constant statement of real world parallels and inspirations and their handling of shit in game and how that unintended outcome effects their intended story or something and someone comes along and like fandom high horses about how it's not that deep let people enjoy things why are you being so negative whine whine bitch bitch about it is wild.

Let people engage with fandom however they enjoy. For some that will be Big Think. It will be analyzing shit, no matter their skill level at doing so, and digging into it. If that's not it for you, that's awesome! I'm sure most people like both at different times, different moods, different media properties. Sometimes you want to get in the fandom place and go 'i bet this blorbo would cry if their tamagotchi died' and other times you want to talk about the accidental 'colonialism is good' narrative in the scifi movie you just watched or how xyz thing is part of a larger character motif about 123.

Respect whatever the fuck fandom means to other people, and just don't engage with shit you don't want to. Either direction. Don't go on posts of people being silly goofy and happy and be a jag, don't go on posts being negative or critical about something and get mad about people being negative. Grow up. Move on. None of it matters.

[mantisgodsdomain]

The thing about our six-month rule (we cannot publish writing about any media we have not refreshed our memory on in at least six months) is that though it probably seems a bit overly dramatic it is Very Much A Necessity for our level of memory. We have come dangerously close to falling for multiple "making up something about Worm that doesn't happen in canon" posts. We once forgot about Leviathan attacking Brockton Bay. There is a literal moth in our brain who has been known to steal bits of our memory. If we don't refresh our memory on a regular basis we WILL make mistakes.