#epic musical theory

[otherthingys]

I need the EPIC animators to make a quick series starting with Poseidon taunting Odysseus with the fact that he can’t kill a god, and Odysseus saying he knows; that whole scene.

Then there being flashbacks of his time on Calypso’s island and it’s just scenes of her trying to have a good time with him but every time she turns away Odysseus tries to pull off some Tom and Jerry style trap to kill her but they all fail.

I need this.

[wukyma]

A little bit of info for this au!!

So, yeah, Poseidon disguises himself as a common soldier, but all his plans of being a mysterious shadow behind the scenes of the main action come crumbling down when Polites decides "hey you're my friend now!" Consequently Poseidon proceeds to find himself in all sort of strange situations (some of which include Odysseus. that man has no chill)

And Poli! He's definitely gotten a bit too comfortable lol (no glasses for practical reasons ahem ahem)

We might need a name for Poseidon to use btw,, yes i came up with a whole story but not a name; im open for suggestions XD

Warning!! Sad things: the war ends, they part ways (insert drama here because Poseidon basically flees from his feelings and Polites feels betrayed because he didn't tell him a thing before just vanishing)

Then the cyclops thing happens. Polites dies. Poseidon comes to his son's call and discovers an all too familiar body in the cave. Of course he doesn't want to believe this but a trip to the underworld destroys any doubt and hope—yes you may mentally throw OP in tartarus that's my rightful place

and he doesn't recognize Poseidon either because a) dude isn't in mortal disguise anymore, b) his injury made him forget some people's faces, or both

A bit of blood and an important question ⬇️

I was thinking like... did Polites know about Odysseus yeeting the infant? (sorry for phrasing it that way but ehhh,,) Depending on the answer, Open Arms could have a different meaning and message, ykyk?

[missdrarrydawn]

Hera wanted Athena to win

Guys hear me out, this is my conspiracy theory LMAO

I feel like in God Games when Athena is battling the Gods to help Ody, of all of them, Hera wanted her to win the whole time.

Hera is the final "level" of the game, and if Athena convinces her to say yes, then it's a yes and Ody must be released, and I'm sure Hera knew that fact.

Now look at what all the other Gods say.

Each of them gives a very specific reason why they don't want Ody to be freed.

Apollo's reason is slaughtering the sirens.

Hephaestus' reason is the Scylla sacrifice.

Aphrodite's reason is abandoning his mother.

Ares' reason is being cowardly in the Trojan war.

And then, we get to Hera, and she's just like 'Yeah just give me any good reason and I'll agree to let him go'. She has no qualms with Odysseus, she has no motivation even to fight with Athena on this. She doesn't really require convincing, per se.

She's legitimately just asking Athena to give her any half decent justification so she can say yes and make it look legit in front of Zeus.

The whole time as Athena is giving Hera reasons, Hera is also continuously egging her on to give her a better one, a more sound one that would look really convincing. She's saying things like 'Try Harder' and 'You can do better than that.'

So my theory is that after Zeus announced the God Games, Hera saw it as a chance to stick it to him for once, for all his cheating and disloyalty to their marriage, so she wanted Athena to win, and played her cards accordingly.

All she needed was Athena to give her any half-decent justification for her to say yes, so that the games look legitimate, but ultimately she was on her side the whole time. She made the game really easy for Athena, because she gave her free reign to think of absolutely anything and everything she possibly could in favor of Ody, instead of giving her a specific, niche argument she has to fight against.

Additionally, Hera is the goddess of marriage in the pantheon, and even if she doesn't care the least little bit about Odysseus, I am willing to bet she very much cares about Penelope.

Think about it, Hera herself is stuck in an awful marriage to Zeus and is not very happy about that. And she would 100% relate to Penelope's struggles of being alone, missing her husband and trying to ward off the suitors who are trying to force her into a, let's be real, abusive marriage with Antinous.

Hera as a wife definitely sympathizes with Penelope as a wife, and releasing Odysseus so he can return to Penelope is the only way to help her be protected again.

So there you go. My conspiracy is that Hera for one absolutely wanted Athena to win the entire time. I think she at the very least tried to help her, I mean she couldn't have known that Zeus would fucking kill her for winning LMAO

[oliveoilisedible]

wait chat okay so in No Longer You, one of the lines of the prophecy is “I see you draw your final breath” which represents the last breath Odysseus took before he was in the water to fight Poseidon (Get in The Water).

Which in turn represents the death Odysseus as a man, and the birth of Odysseus as a monster.

And in Odysseus, when one of the suitors is begging for mercy, his line is

“Mercy? Mercy?

My mercy’s long since drowned.

It died to bring me home”

LIKE HOW ODYSSEUS’S MERCY DIED WHEN HE HAD TO TORTURE POSEIDON TO GET HIM TO CALL OF THE STORM SO THAT HE COULD GET HOME

[stufftoinspiremetowrite]

Not gonna lie, the fact that Odysseus sang Penelope's and Telemachus' names without the melody for the first time the whole musical kind of broke me a little.

[truedarkbard]

My main EPIC HC is that, because Ody left Circe's island on relatively amicable terms with her, there's a decent chance Elpenor will get a proper (albeit belated) burial. However, this does mean that some poor nymph would have to find his body... a nymph who's presumably not too familiar with death happening to humans/ humanoids. And now I have the image of a young girl using a stick to poke Elpenor's body (which is very wrongly bent at the neck, among other places)...

[firinnie]

People laugh that Zeus did a powerpoint presentation to his children and wife before the God Games... but what if it's much sadder? After all, none of them knew Odysseus. So what if Zeus forced them to say exactly what he said? That's why personal arguments would work so well. Imagine the guilt of those gods when the game ended, they were puppets and because of that Athena suffered just before their eyes.

[mer-acle]

Mortals! (And gods)

So we all know how Athena pulled Aphrodite into Quick Thought in God Games, right?

But she probably only pulled her, not everyone. And then Ares used his own Quick Thought to intercept.

DOES THIS MEAN NOBODY SAW IT?

Like one second Aphrodite says "Let him rot", then the scene glitches and suddenly Ares is lying on the floor in the middle of the arena with Athena's spear at his throat and they both say "Release him"

DID OLYMPUS MISS GOD GAMES LEVEL 3 AND 4? cos it took place in like a single second?

[yui-onnero]

Listening to Love in Paradise on repeat, you cannot tell me this man has not tried to escape multiple times. Just listen to how he sings (first meeting), it just screams, "How can I get out of this, how do I get out of this, what can I do to get out of this, GIMME MY WIFE-"

Like, the idea popped into my head that he would've probably tried to built a boat/raft and an oar or two to escape and Calypso was just amused by his attempts since she was just gonna snach him up again. Yes, she'd be a bit hurt, but she'd admire his attempts for trying.

(After another failed attempt to take a raft off the Island, Calypso walks him back to the cabin.) Odysseus: (murmuring) I was so close... Calypso: Yeah, good job! You managed to finish the raft and oar this time and got a good amount of distance off shore! (it was really only a couple yards) That's pretty impressive! Odysseus: (eyes narrowed) Not good enough it seems... Calypso: (blinks a few times before responding) As much as I admire your efforts, you should just relax in my paradise! We have forever after all! Why don't you just rest inside my paradise? Odysseus who frowns softly and looks sad and slightly defeated because he just wants to go to his wife and son-

But you already know he's trying again eventually.

(Until he gives up and tries to commit suicide 7 years later-)

And of course I finish writing this after almost crying a few times at the ending of the song-

[rhiandoesfandom]

Okay, theory. I think that since Jorge likes big reveals, he's going to do another one with Athena. And I think it's gonna be at the end of "Get in the water". I think Odysseus is gonna be like, "Fine, I'll die as long as you don't hurt my wife and son", meanwhile it's heartwrenching and penelope and telemachus are reaching out to him (i dont know when get in the water happens in the timeline).

But also Telemachus is just yelling, "ATHENA WHERE ARE YOU?!" and she's still weak from her fight with Zeus but goes to protect them at the last minute and that's when Ody finally hears and sees her. That she's been protecting them.

Poseidon is like, "What, you don't have authority here!" Then a lightning strikes and he's like, "FUCK, REALLY".

And Ody is fucking smug and runs back to Penelope.

[the-impulse-to-love]

show me how to dance forever, arcadia, and greek mythology

this was initially gonna be a longer post with other things but i need to get These Specific Brainworms out of my head rn so. yeah

quick disclaimer i'm not a huge expert on greek mythology/culture so if anyone has any other comments feel free 2 discuss...

contains very vague teeth of god spoilers around the discussion of deities in relation to arcadia (pan, ceryneian hind)

(apologies if the formatting is weird still getting used to tumblr)

> arcadia

the shepherd’s monument from the hidden coords on the sight has references to arcadia, a region of greece. now, this can mean the real life history of the area, or the history with more mythological connotations.

arcadia also refers to a utopia in which the wilderness is undisturbed. it’s idyllic and peaceful. this is a common interpretation/subject for the area and its themes during the renaissance, which one such notable artwork being “et in arcadia ego," replicated on the mentioned monument (hence the connection) (this also warrants another post i'd say).

it’s also notable how arcadia, in terms of a utopia, is described as being unattainable (as per wikipedia anyways, there wasn’t quite an exact source for this. other sites just echoed the same sentiment.) this is a contrast from the biblical garden of eden, which instead was a paradise lost due to the original sin. (i don’t think i need to explain eden’s relevance to sleep token since. you know the entire third album and song)

in addition, the region of arcadia had religious significance.

1. it was the basis for worship for certain deities (in actuality)

⠀a. some temples around the region were dedicated to hermes, the messenger god and guide for the dead (psychopomp)

⠀⠀-- hermes has several wing motifs. he is often depicted with a winged hat, talaria (winged sandals), and a caduceus (his staff)

⠀⠀-> this can possibly tie into 🪶 feathered host, one of the two alleged factions from the emails which states “the cycle must be broken”

⠀⠀-- hermes' role as a psychopomp can also be connected to "show me how to dance forever." as i mentioned in this post there's likely a link between the teeth of god tour speeches in death "asking you to dance with [fear and hope], after all" and smhtdf. hermes guiding the dead and death asking to dance forever? yeah

⠀b. arcadia was a region of worship for despoina, a goddess whose name was lost due to being worshipped by the eleusinian mysteries (only those in the group knew her name, so it was lost)

⠀⠀-- the eleusinian mysteries were initiations done by a secretive religious group in who worshiped persephone and demeter in ancient greece

⠀⠀-> the loss of despoina's true name could tie into the fact that sleep's name canonically cannot be properly translated into modern language

⠀c. arcadians worshiped demeter, goddess of agriculture and the harvest

⠀⠀-> (bit more of a stretch i would say,) but she can be associated with gardens due to her role as a goddess of agriculture. gardens on themselves, of course, are a common theme in sleep token songs in addition to the garden of eden. they vary in symbolism/meaning from love to paradise.

⠀d. anytos was a titan who allegedly raised despoina and was worshiped in the area. not too much is known from him asides from this.

2. it was the place where mythical beings dwelled (in mythology)

⠀a. pan is a god of wilderness and shepherds who was said to live in arcadia. he was also worshipped in the area.

⠀-> his status as a god of shepherds could relate to vessel's staff that appeared for a little bit then vanished off the face of the earth. this can be interpreted as a shepherd's staff, used to guide and direct sheep. the shepherd's staff has it's own biblical connotations but that's not the focus of this post

⠀⠀-> one of the presale codes for a promo was "lambs." given how "arcadia" and "veridian" were both also used as codes, i wouldn't be surprised if this came up again as well. maybe vessel will herd flamingos...

⠀⠀-> "lambs" was also the name of the first chapter in the teeth of god novel in which we were introduced to the surface team and the climate on earth.

⠀b. the ceryneian hind is a swift and sacred deer who lived in ceryneia near arcadia. it was named after the river cerynites which flows from arcadia. in addition, it is associated with artemis, goddess of the hunt, nature, and moon.

⠀-> sleep can also be tied into this. if you believe the tentacles emerging from the moon are related to sleep, this would relate to artemis' relation to the moon.

⠀⠀-> goddess of the hunt could also tie into the teeth of god poem, specifically “i am hunting something, and in turn that same thing is hunting me”

⠀-> the ceryneian hind is likely the reference/basis for the “arcadian stag,” present on some merch and the teeth of god cover. hinds are female red deers which can be found in greece. another translation/name used for the deer instead of “hind” was “stag.”

i'm not really sure How Much (if any) of the album/lore is going to reference greek legends and stuff, but i will be Very Pleased if it does since this stuff was fun to look into...

like and subscribe and i'll yap about columns next idk

[otherthingys]

Yall know that clip/audio of, after a long pause, a man says “am I the problem” and is immediately cut off with another shouting “OF COURSE YOU ARE”

That’s all I think about anytime I think of or listen to “Monster”

Odysseus: “……..am I the problem”

Everyone he’s ever met: “OF COURSE YOU ARE!!”

Can someone please make this for me

I need it

[hecates-corner]

When I first heard There Are Other Ways, I was a little disappointed by the fact that Circe didn’t successfully seduce Odysseus, considering the huge Greek Mythology nerd I am.

Bear with me.

Then, I played the saga, and that song, for my wonderful mother tonight. About halfway through, I gasped.

The story is accurate to the Homeric version: he confronts her (clandestinely at first), she fights back, he pulls the sword.

But she’s not afraid. Of course she isn’t.

Why would an immortal being, with the rage and power of commanding a million different beasts if her Plan A goes down, be afraid of a measly man with a flimsy toothpick to her throat, just because he ate a flower and said “Be afraid!”?

That’s right! She wouldn’t.

Because Jay didn’t submit to the blatant misogyny of the tale.

Read this article for incredible information, if you please. It changed the way I saw Circe’s story.

If Circe cowered, simply because a man held a sword to her throat, only then would she have seduced him (if we’re going ultra-canon with the storyline, which Jay isn’t), which would have, yet again, thrown off the balance of power.

Circe could give less of a shit about the sword, in the song. She thinks he’s pretty hot, and maybe she’s manipulating him into coming to bed with her so she can trick him, so she offers a tryst or two. Here, if you read the article, she is throwing off the nature of men and women by being the active sexual partner.

He refuses, too enamored with Penelope, and shuns his curiosity in her. You can hear how it pains him, it’s a struggle to say no. But he does. He’s strong, he’s no god, cheating on his wife for the sake of sex appeal. He’s just a man.

He begs. That’s the thing that got me. Not her, him.

“So I beg you, Circe, grant us mercy, and let us puppets leave~”

Then, Circe offers to help him — not because she’s restoring the nature of being submissive — but because she has empathy and compassion for the man. She helps him because he’s proved himself, to be weary, and faithful, and human. She knows the feeling of love.

So, yes. So many layers. Like an onion, worthy of making you cry.

1. Jay is spitting in the face of misogyny and gender roles, and having her help him because she empathizes. Because she’s in power.

2. It’s sort of a jab, if interpreted a certain way, at sexual assault. He says no, and he holds true to it. Even though everything is telling him to give in, to let it happen, he refuses, and remains as sure as he can be.

3. It shows how very human Odysseus is. Athena forgot it, and somehow held him to it. Even the men forget it. But he never does. There is only so much he can do.

This is my favorite saga so far.

[anniflamma]

My next animatic will probably be Ruthlessness. So I have been sketching out some ideas, I guess, for Poseidon, and I ended up making him a horse. So I like to depict the gods as animals or change sizes when they are expressing big emotions. And Poseidon has this calm anger throughout all of his songs, but his anger is simmering beneath. So my first ideas, I started out having him as a dark horse chasing Odysseus' boat. And when he becomes angry, he becomes more horrifying. But then I realized that meant that I had to draw a freaking horse throughout the whole animatic, and I didn't want that, so I gave him a human form....

His human form isn't really 100% decided yet. I don't really know if he fit of the delivery the song.

If I remember right, in the snippet of Get In The Water, Jay said that there will be a "twist" in the song. Probably Athena will appear or something. I don't know what it can be. But I do have some theories.

I have a headcanon about Poseidon in the musical. I see him more like a personification of vengeance itself. It's based on the parallelism between Odysseus, Poseidon, and even Hector.

Hector was the man who died and couldn't protect his son from the perpetrator. Poseidon is the man whose son became mutilated and is trying to take revenge on his perpetrator. Odysseus is the man who does everything he can to make sure he won't end up in the same spot like Hector/Poseidon.

So this design of Poseidon is more based on what if Poseidon was the representation of Hector's ghost trying to take revenge for the murder of his son.

It's a stretch, but I kind of like it!

[lily-s-world]

In "Would you fall in love with me again?", Penelope starts singing the "waiting" chorus at 4:11 and ends around 4:31. That's 20 seconds, which is a parallel of the 20 years waiting.

[the-coffee-fandom]

I was rewatching the animation the other day for Scylla (EPIC the Musical Thunder Saga) and realized something

Did anyone else notice that Eurylochus had a torch?

HE HAD A TORCH

I had watched the trailer and it didn’t hit me until then and I realized, why didn’t he die then?

But the animation is INCREDIBLE!!!

He had passed off the torch to someone else when he’d “saved” him, therefore carving his fate onto him. That’s when he realized what exactly Odysseus was playing at.

Perhaps this was the true set up for Mutiny.

Maybe it wasn’t about the fact that Odysseus was willing to sacrifice six of their men.

Maybe it was just because Odysseus was willing to sacrifice him.

After everything they’d gone through.

And right after Eurylochus came clean about having been the one to open the wind bag. Odysseus didn’t respond more than with the command to light up six torches. Ensuring that Eurylochus would have one of those torches.

It wasn’t about six men.

It was about them.