#dark!daenerys meta

[whateverthedragonswant]

Daenerys vs Coin / GoT vs Hunger Games - The Hidden Villains = The Final Boss

I happened to catch The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 2 on TV and seeing the ending again slapped so much harder than I expected it to. I just couldn't stop seeing the similarities between the two women and how some still don't see Dany as the villain but had no issue seeing Coin as just that. I mean:

First we have the Rebels attacking the Capitol, to fight back against Snow and the way he has been running Panem.

While Katniss and Co are hiding out, a television address from President Snow goes out, warning citizens of the Capitol that the Rebels are there to kill them all, to "bury us", and their intention is not to save anyone. He offers up the Mansion as a place of sanctuary for the citizens and their children, not really giving a crap about them but using them as leverage/to maintain the image for the Capitol citizens so they won't turn on him.

Katniss and Gale go on foot to attempt to get her close enough to kill Snow. That's been her plan all along. If Snow is killed, then the Hunger Games and Snow's tyranny will stop.

As they're making their way, right before being caught, the Rebels attack. Innocent citizens are caught in the crossfire, even children.

And then this scene happens:

Not only does the sister she started out protecting die, but the children also die that were at the Mansion's gate.

Later on, Katniss finds out from Snow that Coin (who was aiming to replace Snow & was the Rebel leader so to speak) was the one who killed the Capitol children and set the trap that killed more people alongside her sister.

Tyrion: "My father was an evil man, my sister was an evil woman, pile up all of the bodies of all the people they killed, and it still won't mount up to the amount of people our beautiful queen killed in a single day."

As bad as Snow is, like he says he's not "wasteful". He admits how brilliant Coin is and makes Katniss aware of what she's really aiming to do: replace him.

Sure enough, Coin holds a meeting with Katniss and the surviving Victors. She informs them that Snow is going to be executed that afternoon and this will start off a slew of executions because the Rebels want blood for all of the children they lost over the years to the Hunger Games and Snow's whims. She proposes that they restart the Hunger Games but this time with the Capitol children instead.

Some are for it, like Johanna:

Who mentions Snow has a granddaughter.

Dany: "From Winterfell to Dorne, from Lannisport to Qarth, from the Summer Isles to the Jade Sea!"

Others don't agree like Peeta, but when Katniss uncharacteristically agrees (and we see that she realizes Snow was right in this scene) as long as she gets to kill Snow herself, Haymitch hesitantly agrees with her, swinging the vote (knowing she's got something up her sleeve after the look she gives him).

We then see Katniss do her walk to the area where Snow is being held for all to witness his execution:

Coin makes her speech to the people:

Katniss lets her arrow fly, striking Coin in the heart:

Katniss, the hero, expected to die (because she didn't intend on being taken prisoner) but ends up being stopped and arrested instead (while the people rip Snow apart):

Haymitch goes to see her where she's imprisoned:

He reads her Plutarch's letter and then informs her that she will be sent back to District 12, alone, and once some time has passed after the election of a new leader that the people have chosen, she will be pardoned:

Katniss goes back home to discover an old pet waiting for her:

And eventually Peeta (also of District 12) joins her, they eventually start a family, and she finds some semblance of peace in what has always been her home:

The reason for this very long post is that even though this is a different books series, different world, different characters, different circumstances, etc. the lead-up to the hero taking out the main villain/the final boss. So yes, Dany's dark turn was rushed and not executed well, no doubt, but it was enough that people should stop questioning if she was ever going to go dark at all or questioning just what her intentions were. (and this doesn't even begin to delve into all of the foreshadowing that was layered into the series the whole way)

There is no difference between this woman:

And this woman:

Not when it came to their pursuits for power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

People were not going to flourish under Dany's rule. She had already burned innocents alive, including innocent children (just like Coin killed the Capitol children and was going to continue to kill them) to attain her goal: conquering to get the IT, whoever doesn't receive her with open arms and love will pay for it, and she's ripping the old world out root and stem (breaking the wheel so she could always be on top) to make the world she wants. Cersei saw through her (& bet against her and lost), Tyrion knew what she was, and even Jon did.

Like Snow said, Coin waited until the Districts were in disarray before stepping in to help and be the voice for the people to follow:

She even gave them a symbol to put their belief in aka the Mockingjay(Breaker of Chain/Mother of Dragons/The Last Targaryen)/Katniss (who people were already inclined towards):

to help pull those people together even more so she could win:

It's all right there.

(start at 1:12 - Alma Coin's life)

YouTuber MovieFlame: "She came from District 13 which was thought to be nonexistent and extinct":

Need I say more?

[fromtheseventhhell]

Dany: *breathes*

Dark!Dany "theories": I honestly don't know how there's any question of Dany turning evil when we have such obvious foreshadowing like this in the books. In the first place, this is not just Dany exhaling...it is a violent expulsion of air from her body. It's a sigh, a sign of impatience which shows that Dany becomes frustrated and restless very easily. Not only that, the presence of oxygen strengthens a fire and can lead to a sudden explosion; when Dany gets impatient, intentional or not, her first instinct is to add "fuel to the fire". And finally, air is the very essence of life. She expels "life" from her body, rather violently at that, the moment she becomes impatient and unconsciously begins to turn to fire...do I really need to say more? It's so obvious that Mad Queen!Dany is being built up, George isn't even trying to be subtle lol

[reginarubie]

Soooo…

Long story short, I saw an edit of The Plagues from Prince of Egypt between the Blacks and the Greens and I was like… think if it’s true and the Whents descend from Aemond and thus Catelyn and the Starklings do as well… thinking of the lyrics coming next.

So I ended up doing it, and whilst I was editing I realized something…

Many parallel Daenerys with Moses but it’s wrong she’s Ramses coded and it’s Bran who is Moses (Moses couldn’t talk well, he stuttered — Bran can’t walk).

So I may end up writing another biblical meta… research is needed!

[atopvisenyashill]

do we need another long post about the house of the undying? no but i needed to put all my thoughts in one place and i’m merely giving the people what they want.

obviously spoilers all the through the end of the series, and the winds of winter, and also we’re doing some predicting here. i welcome disagreement and debate but if you're gonna be mean keep it pushing for the love of god. most up to date graphic and then let’s goooooooo-

key

first of all, please understand i'm not positing that george was thinking about elements this concretely when he was designing these prophies. i'm not not saying that either but it's mostly just to help ME visualize the events and look for patterns. "why is there no air" because. that's why. the white text is stuff that is not related to a specific moment with an element.

secondly, i started highlighting the figurative language because i see a lot of discussion on literal v figurative. i think people contradict themselves a lot in this regard - you'll see someone go from "if the towers aren't literal towers than we can't trust the prophecies at all" to "well this one is more figurative and that's fine" within a paragraph. i think this is all completely silly. george is writing what sounds best to him and sometimes its literal and sometimes its figurative and that's fine.

and lastly, i also kinda split it up into two pieces - the threes and the visions. again, not saying they aren't related but i am saying they're slightly separated.

spoken prophecies

three fires you shall light - one for life, one for death, and one to love

so FIRST OF ALL i do wonder if there’s a pattern here - ie first thing refers to the dothraki time period, second to meereen/essos in general, third to westeros, or something similar. there’s some that seem more obvious, and when you look at it, it sort of seems to fit that pattern - that’s kind of what the color coding is, it started when i thought i saw a pattern there. i think it's really notable that a lot of the stuff in the first row have clearly already happened - except the treason for blood which i'll get to later.

for life is drogo’s funeral pyre that brings to life her dragons, this one feels like the obvious & correct conclusion. however i don’t want to say like “one hundred percent” bc what if george pulls something else. u get me. but imo it makes sense that one or two things would have happened already, to confirm to dany it’s true telling, and would stick out obviously in her memory. am i over explaining something really obvious lol.

for death is not as obvious. there’s a few options, for now i have landed on either the upcoming battle in meereen (it’s gonna go on a while) or whatever is happening in Vaes Dothrak/with the Dothraki. both those are very close events that to me feel like a kind of…hinge point? i guess in her story. like arya getting on the boat to braavos, sansa coming to the vale, jon becoming lord commander, etc etc, they’re jumping into a new part of their story, and both of these events are specific "fire light" moments that will change the trajectory of dany's story. i think it will be the first time we see her use drogon offensively, with the explicit aim of killing someone when she says dracarys, hence the “for death.”

to love...listen so the thing is regardless of how she REACTS to it, or the details on how it happens, i think it makes complete sense that dany is the one to set off the wildfire pots. i’m not saying she’s going to ~rah go mad~ but i am saying it’s been a Thing in her family to play around with wildfire anyway (aegon iv, aegon v, aerion, AND her father all play with it!) and it’s her father that put the pots there, it just makes so much more sense narratively for dany to be the one to deal with the legacy aerys left behind and one of the biggest Chekho'vs Guns in the series. i love the joncon & young griff & golden company stuff but introducing the wildfire as aerys' creation just for two characters who are very disconnected from aerys and the kl plotline to flow it up does not have the emotional impact of a character we’ve been following for Every Book being actively involved with the accidental destruction of the city her family built, and the city her dad took steps to try to blow up (who we see talking about blowing it up in a vision right before this!!).

now while i think “a fire to love” is likely about the event of king’s landing going up, i think there’s a lot of options for what that even means. i think it’s going to be OBVIOUS when it does happen, because the first fire is obvious & imo what the second one involves also seems obvious (and other prophecies, like the Ghost of High Heart’s Lady Stoneheart prophecy, are fairly obvious when they’re spoken like this (patchface doesn’t count). But i think its not quite obvious YET simply because there’s minimum 2k pages left lol. My gut feeling here is the fire to love will be about the wildfire pots though!

three mounts you will ride - one to bed, one to dread, and one to love

one to bed seems kind of obvious here as well; dany mounting her silver to her marriage bed with Drogo.

one to dread is murkier. lot of theories but the one i lean towards is the greyjoy fleet/a ship. the dothraki refer to ships as “wooden horses” and "wooden mounts" so it fits the mount theme, and it’s certainly dreadful, both that she’s likely to be paranoid about them (bc of the kraken & dark flame warning) and because dany & her new fleet are on their way to start conquering westeros.

one to love…it’s drogon. we use different meanings of “to” both times before - one to bed, literally a mount that takes her to a place, and one to dread, the greyjoy fleet and the “dread” of them being untrustworthy, and of landing in westeros. it makes sense to me that this “to” is a third use of the word "to"- talking not of a literal or metaphorical place the mount takes her, but of the feelings she has for the mount. and whatever romances or husbands she may have, drogon will always be her greatest love.

three treasons you shall know…once for blood, once for gold, and once for love

this section is difficult for me. dany believes they have all happened but not onlyy do i not believe she’s gotten it right, more and more i'm coming around on the idea that none of them have happened yet. what's more is that the events we likely have already gotten (mount to bed, fire for life) are very obvious but nothing really sticks out to me as an obvious betrayal for either blood, gold, or love!

i’ve played with ideas about how SHE is the one doing treasons to someone else but i’m still very much on the fence here. i think it’s likely these treasons are going to come from WELL KNOWN characters, likely even POV characters. i’ve gotten stuck on the word “know” - does it mean she’ll simply learn of three reasons that happen? that feels like “well the valonqar doesn’t HAVE to be CERSEI’S brother” copium to me though. the reality is....i'm not sure lmao.

once for blood… anyways i don’t think mmd is the treason for blood - mmd doesn’t betray dany! drogo doesn’t listen to mirri’s instructions, jorah doesn’t listen to mirri’s instructions, and mirri is not acting vindictively she’s acting defensively. she does not betray dany, though i would argue that dany betrays her - you could argue it’s for blood as in for rhaego, for mmd’s magical abilities for the sacrifice, but i’m unsure about that and i think the fact that dany is so confident makes me believe it's not this.

once for gold

The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them.

from twoiaf. it might be talking about tyland & jason taking the gold from the treasury which directly leads to the death of the dragons + jaime fucking up aerys but i feel like why mention that now and not earlier if it was meant to apply to past events?? nah, i think someone is selling dany out for lannister gold. who tho?? again, unsure lol. i can see several scenarios - one of her sellsword allies flipping for gold, maybe a greyjoy (??) flipping for gold. i had the thought that tyrion would get her to westeros, then flip on her because aegon offers him lord of casterly rock as a title outright - literally flipping for lannister gold - but i don’t know that dany wouldn’t just promise him the lordship outright in essos tbh so.

once for love - again, fuck if i know and i’m not confident of any predictions i’ve had or have seen.

what i noticed is that the last part in each of these three groups are likely to do with the burning of KL - the mount to love being drogon, the fire for love being the burning of KL. so perhaps the treason for love will be tied to the fire for love and mount to love, and it’s a love that is one and the same - dany will betray her people because of her love for drogon with the burning of KL.

obviously…someone my predictions here run on a theme - dany will clash violently with people in vaes dothraki and meereen (at minimum & obvious), dany will Be Involved with KL burning, and yes it will probably involve her doing something from dragonback. if you asked me “take away any theory about dany setting off the wildfire, what are you most confident in” it’s the mounts for sure. i think three different mounts, a horse, a ship, and a dragon, all make sense. i think one to bed feels obvious, one to dread Is A Ship even if it’s not greyjoy related, and one to love is clearly drogon. i’m also pretty conspiracy brained about the lannister gold!! but it’s also like…fire for death….she uses her dragon to kill…fire to love…involved with the plot her dad started….we can debate the context but i think the EVENT is correct.

vision sequence

Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth.

obvious, it happened on page already. i'm noting here that both of her brothers died at the hands of a younger relative (Viserys by Dany, Rhaegar by Robert) who immediately takes their title.

A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

Seems likely to be rhaego, given the dothraki look with targaryen hair and the fiery (his mama) stallion (his pops) as his sigil. Also notable to me that all three men are direct relatives - her brothers and her son.

Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name.

obvious from contexts clues that this is rhaegar dying on the trident. name he’s saying could be lyanna, but i am a “he said visenya” truther.

mother of dragons, daughter of death . . .

her brothers both die young, violent deaths. her unborn son, rhaego, can never fulfill the prophecy because of his premature death. all three men shown are descended from aerys & rhaella’s line ie potential princes in the prince that was promised prophecy. all three must die in order for dany to rise as the prince.

“daughter of death” meaning she outlived all the sons of death, even the son who knew about the prophecy, so all that’s left to be prince is the daughter, the true prince that was promised.

Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

Stannis - blue eyed king, with Melisandre’s fake burning sword and shadow shenanigans. It’s interesting when you bring in the “slayer of lies” line because - what specifically is the lie she’s slaying? That Stannis is Azor Ahai, the PTWP? Or is it MOSTLY to do with Lightbringer being fake? Does Melisandre factor into it at all? And do all three sections point to the same lie or different lies??

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

less obvious - i tend towards the cloth dragon being victarion. dany calls the cloth dragon a “mummer’s dragon” as in she believes it’s a puppet. but crucially, it doesn’t say mummer’s dragon in that section! i find it unlikely that the cloth dragon and the mummer’s dragon are the same person!

However, as I note, he DOES have a fake horn - perhaps she slays the lie that the horn is real? i think i just a feeling the lie of the sword and the horn are linked but maybe i am cornplating here. i also think, if we take victarian as the cloth dragon, it's interesting that you have stannis being propped up by a rholloric priestess, and victarian being propped up by a rholloric priest. that feels like another azor ahai prophecy link.

From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

it could be euron, with the towers being the ten towers at oldtown, where he currently is. could be stannis, meli loves to talk about stone dragons. it could be dany & drogon - her dragon awoken from stone.

now, IF the second one (cloth dragon) is in fact victarion, i think it’s a little weird that this is euron bc then it’s two greyjoys in a row. but i suppose that’s not disqualifying, it’s not like the greyjoys are trustworthy.

mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .

i'm even more fuzzy on this one than i am on the "stone dragon" one to be honest. what are the lies. it’s more than one lie right. or is it a singular lie. is it azhor ahai. is it something else. i had this thought that like, the first is about the lie that stannis has lightbringer - he doesn’t bc lightbringer isn’t even a sword, it’s drogon. the second lie is about the lie of the horn - victarian thinks he can take drogon from her but he is wrong. the third is euron raising squid stuff - he thinks he can raise a creature equal to hers, he is wrong. perhaps its about another object that euron has, similar to the sword and the horn? i keep coming back to it even though, every time i type it out, i look at what i wrote like “who let this man cook."

i will say what's interesting is that the daughter of death section is very tied to the prince that was promised prophecy - dany inheriting the prince title after outliving all the other princes, rhaegar literally invoking the prophecy with his last breath - and this section seems more focused on azor ahai.

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.

the obvious scene is dany riding her silver to her wedding BUT. note the "darkling stream beneath a sea of stars" in the description - the dothraki believe that the afterlife is riding forever in the grass lands. there’s a death association in this section.

A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

i think it’s obvious WHAT this is but not quite obvious WHO it is (note corpse in parentheses). we literally see euron do this to aeron, and more it’s the corpse that is smiling sadly, indicating that the Corpse is the Greyjoy. BUT the corpse could technically be ANYONE who a greyjoy nails to the prow. also note death stuff again.

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness

obviously jon is the blue flower, whose actions cause a chink in the nights watch (or a chink in the wall). i think this one is so goofy and i hate it skdjdj because the other two feel so mysterious and then this one is just a pin drop on jon’s location 🤧 however i would like to note that sweetness is not usually associated with good things in this series. it’s often used to mask poison, literally & metaphorically. this could mean like, so many things, but the death imagery in all three just goes WAY HARD.

mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

there's a lot of "these will be her great loves" stuff but i'm not totally sure that's where it ends. i don't think this is inherently about dany being married to these three (four?) men. instead, i think the “bride of fire” is meant as a parallel to robb’s “true wife” being his sword. what they choose is their battles, and violence, and not any specific person to truly be wed to. see here:

She looked at her son, watched him as he listened to the lords debate, frowning, troubled, yet wedded to his war. He had pledged himself to marry a daughter of Walder Frey, but she saw his true bride plain before her now: the sword he had laid on the table.

visions part two

again, this part is all over the place. a lot of this has already happened by a dance with dragons.

Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible.

This is blood magic that mmd did to bring drogo back to life and claimed the life of dany's son, rhaego.

A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door.

This is Dany as a child. Interesting that she refers to herself as "a little girl" kind of separating herself from the vision she is in.

Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow.

Waking the dragons, becoming the mother of dragons through blood sacrifice.

Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged.

The wineseller who attempts to kill her.

A white lion ran through grass taller than a man.

the lion drogo kills and gifts her in the dothraki sea.

Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

The crones of vaes dothraki - this one doesn't seem to have happened yet and "naked crones" "shivering before her" feels like it's going to involve however she gets out of Vaes Dothrak. Very sinister feeling here to me.

Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. "Mother!" they cried. "Mother, mother!" They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them.

Obviously the myhsa scene. I think it's interesting how she associates herself with "the fire" "the life" and how she's being grabbed at.

But then black wings buffeted her round the head, and a scream of fury cut the indigo air, and suddenly the visions were gone, ripped away, and Dany's gasp turned to horror.

this is just so sinister to me. Drogon ending the vision sequence and her gasp turning to horror - feels bad scoob!

idk how to end this.

um dany is azor ahai and the prince that was promised but i don't think this is a good thing even a little bit. also drogon is lightbringer.

[disneyprincessbuffyannesummers]

So today I decided to use a search of ice & fire to check how many times Dany has said; if i look back i am lost. Turns out she says it; 12 TIMES!

Which makes sense given it is her madness mantra however it could also be a survival mantra

or just be both a madness mantra and a survival mantra.

[daenerystargaryen06]

Can antis like, keep away from Daenerys please?

I'm so tired of seeing people writing out crap that Daenerys will be the villain, Jon is better, she is mad, calling her Danielle, yada yada. Just say you don't like her (because she is ultimately better than your fave) and go.

I'm also tired of seeing people giving the Starks (especially Sansa) her traits. I've seen edits of people making Sansa a Targ, people talking about how she'll get Daenerys' dragons, that Jon will kill Dany for her, etc.

Just keep Daenerys' name out of your mouth if you hate her and can't stand that she is strong, independent, and has an amazing character arc. A majority of Daenerys fans don't like other asoiaf characters, but you hardly see any of them going on a tangent about how much they hate that character. Usually it's us Dany fans defending anti hate against Dany and also defending antis hate on Dany to prop up their own fave (mainly Sansa).

I heavily have a high disdain for show!Sansa (she's alright in the books, not my fave but she's much better compared to the garbage that is her show character). But I don't go out of my way to hate on her, diss her character, write pointless metas about her going "mad", "evil", or "dark". Nor do I see any other Dany fan doing so. We don't hate on Sansa to prop up Dany. We don't give Dany character traits of other characters/Sansa. We don't speculate about how she'll die or get killed or manipulated by another man. It's disgusting.

It's also disgusting seeing anti hate towards Arya. Arya is my second favorite female character in asoiaf. She isn't ugly, she isn't crazy or some violent murderer, she isn't going to be permanently warged into Nymeria and become Sansa's; nor is she going to become Sansa's assigned assassin to kill all her enemies while Sansa and Jon live in lala land. It's not going to happen.

It is so disgusting how a vast majority of Arya and Dany fans don't do half the things their antis/Sansa stans do, yet they go out of their way to bash these wonderful characters to prop up their own fave or to get them out of the way for Sansa or Jon (mainly Jon fans who bash Daenerys to prop Jon up and cheer Jon for killing her).

We can talk about our faves without bashing another character, making metas about them that don't even follow the text, and just being outright nasty.

Do better. Just keep away from Daenerys and Arya.

[g0lightly]

(image credits)

the hounds of harrenhal is a slow-burn brienne x sansa romance within a whimsical adventure with a good mix of found family + re-found blood family fluff. don’t get it twisted, this is still pretty plot heavy. since this is a rather expansive work, there are plenty of other eventual pairings such as gendry/arya and jon/satin (i hc jon snow as the most clueless bisexual to ever live and i love him) in addition to some surprises for later.

can you spot the jenny of oldstones and prince duncan of dragonflies reference(s) in the collage? in addition to rhyming with past asoiaf-verse love stories (dunk x rohanne, jenny x duncan, elissa farman x queen rhaena, lyanna x rhaegar), THOH draws on the persephone/hades abduction myth to subvert both the hound's offer to escape with sansa during the blackwater and littlefinger's "rescue" of sansa from king's landing.

for the purposes of the fic (curse you, abandoned five year gap), sansa's been aged up to robb's twin and two years have passed in-universe.

brienne becomes the newest wearer of the hound's helm after lem when jaime sacrifices himself to lady stoneheart following an escape plan gone very wrong. as the hound, brienne enters a tourney at the eyrie as a mystery knight to win some much needed coin to help the brotherhood without banners through winter. there, lady alayne arryn begs for help escaping a doomed marriage; brienne temporarily sets aside jaime's honor-saving mission for sansa to help her. petyr baelish announces that the hound has abducted sansa stark from the eyrie and advertises a large reward for her safe return. meanwhile, tyrion is trying to use his previous marriage to sansa to claim the vale for the mountain clans and daenerys. sansa hides out in the riverlands’ magical hollow hill with brienne and the brotherhood, falling in love as tensions within the realm build up to a second dance of the dragons amid a years-long winter. when love is the death of duty, what happens when your duty is to the one you love? this work will ultimately take place over the course of several years, weaving in new allies and foes for our star-crossed lovers as the realm moves from crisis to crisis. for generations to come, all of westeros will sing of harrenhal’s hounds and its witch queen. but life is not a song; in this story, it is far sweeter.

meta thoughts below the cut on why a future briensa is objectively one of the best ASOIAF ships in terms of thematic potential.

briensa has the best elements of the far more popular s*ns*n and br*ime ships except they're both teenagers and, crucially, brienne has never held sansa at knifepoint 🩵 no shade to either ship though bc the themes those relationships explore have sent brienne and sansa on journeys that have made them kind of perfect for each other; ie, the subversion of brienne being a protector to sansa rather than a threat is especially relevant if brienne is the next hound after lem!!! alexa play god bless the broken road

brienne is the hero sansa prayed for!!! sansa has learned to put more trust in disfigured people than "beautiful" people which means she can see brienne's beauty in a way she cannot!!! thematically it would be well supported yet subversive for sansa’s true knight and true love to be a jonquil darke type rather than a florian type 🥹 thematically i think the surest route to true love for sansa is a naerys + aemon situation so why not make it like alysanne and jonquil if they ✂️? it's not my fault grrm accidentally (?) wrote sansa as a closeted femme4butch!!!!

[agentrouka-blog]

If Mirri tricks Daenerys into accepting a dark trade based on blood magic, where she sends drogo into a brain dead state <b>which involves sacrificing Dany's unborn baby</b>, and she <b>doesn't inform dany of the correct price, Mirri purposely causes dany to think that the horse is the sacrifice</b> so that <b>Dany's child dies</b>, <b>Drogo may as well be doomed for the things he caused, but an unborn child is punished for his father's sins</b> what is dany supposed to do if it is wrong to burn Mirri?

If it is wrong for Dany to burn Mirri, what way can she bring justice for Rhaego, or is it simply fine for Dany to do anything at all, if there isn't any revenge needed for Rhaego's death, is Miri truly justified in killed an unborn child?

(A formal, polite and detailed answer with logical points and a little constructive criticism is most preferred)

No.

Read the books.

I am not your friendly little meta dispenser and I am not going to be your "formal, polite and detailed" little monkey if your question already reveals you haven't read the books with any level of attention, haven't tried to actually understand what you're asking me to explain, and your condescending tone implies you think you already know better anyways.

If you're actually interested and want to invest some energy of your own, there's plenty of material in my "mirri maz duur" tag.

Otherwise, goodbye, and maybe learn some "polite" for the next time you approach someone. I'm sure it's universally "preferred".

[aleksanderscult]

What would you think of Alina potentially becoming evil? Perhaps towards the sense of direction that many believe Daenerys went to?

love ur metas sm !!

Thank you, sweetheart 😭🫶

Actually it's one of my two most preferred endings for the trilogy!

It was either this or Alina kills the Darkling, Mal stays dead, Alina marries Nikolai, they become King and Queen of Ravka, rebuild their country, protect and make the lives of the Grisha better and, in the meantime, they slowly fall in love with each other and what started out as a political marriage becomes a marriage build on mutual love and respect.

My other favorite ending would be Alina becoming dark, she joins the Darkling and together they wage war on the enemies of Ravka and the Grisha. They become fearsome protectors of their people and of each other. Oh! And becoming dark rulers of Ravka (or maybe not so dark when they only thing they're doing is helping their people 🙃).

I know that most stories are like "The protagonist will remain pure and good and will kill the villain and that's it" but I always wanted to read the story of a protagonist becoming darker and darker, losing their morals and eventually joining the villain in his cause. Alina becoming that person would be AMAZING.

(also Alina had all the right "ingredients" to become a dark villain, like her mercilessness, her cunningness, her obsessive mind always thinking and searching for the amplifiers, her enjoying the feel of power, realizing that she has many things in common with the Darkling. GIVE ME ALL OF THESE AND MULTIPLE THEM BY THREE!!)

[lemonhemlock]

How Daenerys will become dark and tyrannical when she always avoided bloodshed as long as it possible? Grrm had to make 180 turn with her for mad queen arc to work with her established characterization

avoided bloodshed? she literally human sacrifices her slave to gain superpowers (i.e. dragons) in the first book

there is so much dark dany meta on this website already that i'm not sure what i can add to it. mad queen dany truthers have been in the fandom since before the show was even a thing. the little i've written on dany is available in the tags

i think the willful blindness re: her foreshadowing is a result of people fundamentally misunderstanding what kind of series this is. perhaps in a different story, a character like dany would truly receive hero framing and be allowed to commit whatever transgressions she wanted, all in the name of "growth". and that's fine but this is not a series in which a foreign invader setting her fire-breathing monsters on the population is going to be the good guy.

ned & robb stark were sanctioned by the narrative for way less egregious stuff than what dany engages in

[whateverthedragonswant]

Dany was always "Fire and Blood" - ever since Season 1

We kind of all know this at this point but I found something very interesting.

In 1x10, when Dany has Mirri Maz Dur executed, the latter is tied to her Drogo's pyre and set on fire. Mirri dies screaming (blood). The dragons were not yet born so there was no Dracarys. (justification/framing: Mirri murdered Drogo and Dany's unborn child)

In 2x10, when Dany is taken hostage alongside her dragons, the latter kill Pyat Pree (blood). Though the dragons are very young and small, Dany says "Dracarys" and Drogon sets Pyat on fire, with Rhaegal and Viserion following suit. (justification/framing: Dany and the dragons were being held hostage by Pyat Pree)

In 3x04, Dany commands "Dracarys" and Drogon sets Kraznys on fire (blood) which leads to the conquering of Astapor. Rhaegal and Viserion are not present. (justification/framing: Kraznys and Co were slavers)

In 5x05, Dany delivers one of the Nobles to Viserion and Rhaegal in response to Barristan Selmy's murder. Viserion (mind you, Viserion was the one the NK rode later on) sets the man on fire (blood) and then the dragons eat him. Drogon is not present and Dany does not say "Dracarys". (justification/framing: the Sons of the Harpy just murdered Barristan Selmy)

In 6x04, Dany has been taken by the Dothraki and she is being threatened by the Khals. The dragons are not present so she has no need to say "Dracarys" but she sets the Khals on fire and they die (blood). (justification/framing: the Khals were going to do worse to her had they lived)

In 6x09, Dany rides Drogon over Slavers' Bay towards the Masters' Fleet. On her way, Viserion and Rhaegal break out of their holding place and join them. When all three dragons are flying above a ship, Dany commands "Dracarys" and Drogon sets it aflame, killing all aboard (blood). The other two dragons join in. (justfication/framing: the Masters are attacking all of Mereen & trying to force her out)

In 7x05, Dany executes the Tarlys after the Battle of the Gold Road. She commands "Dracarys" and Drogon sets both of the men aflame (blood). The other dragons are not present. (justification/framing: neither Tarly would bend the knee to her after she defeated them in battle)

In 8x05, when Varys is executed for treason, Drogon is commanded by "Dracarys" from Dany and he sets Varys aflame (blood). The other dragons are gone at this point. (justification/framing: Varys turned on her and committed treason, after pleading with Dany not to massacre KL)

Later on in the same episode, we see Dany and Drogon take on the Greyjoy Fleet in Blackwater Bay, and then the Lannister army as well as the Gold Company. We never see or hear Dany commanding Drogon "Dracarys." (justification/framing: Euron killed Rhaegal, Cersei killed Missandei, this is the Last War who will determine who sits on the IT)

So it absolutely should have been no surprise that things would eventually lead to this (we don't see or hear Dany commanding "Dracarys", we don't see or hear her at all once the massacre begins & there is no justification/framing for this one):

They literally showed us Dany with all dragons, with Drogon solely (the dragon she was most bonded to & who represented her), without Drogon but with the other dragons, and by herself. They even showed us examples of her using the command verbally and not using the command verbally. To show us that this was always Dany. It wasn't the dragons. It wasn't the grief of losing those she loved. It wasn't bad writing (meaning this massacre not the timeline/execution of her dark turn) or an "incorrect" ending for her character. This part of her has always been there.

Just as "A dragon is not a slave" has always been about Dany herself (shown to us through some of these scenes above where Dany and/or the dragons were either locked up or she herself was being held prisoner - what frees/unleashes her/them? fire + blood), so was "fire and blood". It wasn't just the words of her house or the Targaryen legacy; it was foreshadowing for the choice she would make later on in the series. The choice that she has been itching to make for many years running but was always prevented (or talked down) from making in the name of the image of the benevolent queen and special savior she wanted to be seen as by all people.

So is it any wonder that her polar opposite as the other threat in the show represented ice & the undead (meaning the NK)? Who brought the storm with him? Not to mention that the NK (King in the very name) destroyed The Wall on a dragon; Dany (the Dragon Queen) destroyed KL on a dragon. Both wanted destruction and death but used different means of bringing that about.

It gives a whole new meaning to Dany's phrase of "Fire cannot kill a dragon", doesn't it?

It was always going to be Fire and Blood when it came to her.

[eliamartel]

HoTU Visions | Kings Landing

I knew the description of Vaes Tolorro in ACOK evokes Dany walking inside a destroyed Kings Landing - A "sun washed" city (Aegon VI/ Martell imagery) bearing "scars of fire" (duh) but I didn't know that the six alleys coming together symbolises Kingslanding until I read @une-nuit-pour-se-souvenir meta on Viserion & Aegon vi.

Attaching screenshot

This is significant as Daenerys encounters six passages coming together in a chamber inside the House of the Undying too. I read her HoTU chapter again and realised that, all of scenes she experiences here, when taken together, symbolises the destruction of Kings Landing

Before entering the House of the Undying, Pyat Pree instructs Dany to always choose to enter the first door on the right if she's in a room with 4 doors, and to always climb up if she encounters any stairs.

Oval room with six passages leading out from it

The fourth room was oval rather than square and walled in worm eaten wood in place of stone. Six passages led out from it in place of four. Dany chose the rightmost, and entered a long, dim, high-ceilinged hall. Along the right hand was a row of torches burning with a smoky orange light, but the only doors were to her left.

Inside the chamber with six passages (symbolising Kingslanding), after Dany makes a choice to enter the rightmost lane, she enters a long hall with many doors on the left and no doors on the right. Only torches lighting the way were on the right wall.

Walking in the hallway; sounds from the walls and closed doors

The mold-eaten carpet (...) served to muffle her footfalls, but that was not all to the good. Dany could hear sounds within the walls, a faint scurrying and scrabbling that made her think of rats. Drogon heard them too. His head moved as he followed the sounds, and when they stopped he gave an angry scream. Other sounds, even more disturbing, came through some of the closed doors. One shook and thumped, as if someone were trying to break through. From another came a dissonant piping that made the dragon lash his tail wildly from side to side. Dany hurried quickly past.

While walking, she hears rats scurrying within the walls, something is trying to break through one door, and the sounds from the third door made her dragon lash his tail wildly. What it means exactly? -> Not sure but Drogon is agitated by this

While walking forward in search for a door on the right (the correct door to proceed furthur if she wants to survive the House of the Undying), she sees some visions through the open doors in the rooms on the left.

Vision 1 - War

In one room, a beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor while four little men crawled over her. They had rattish pointed faces and tiny pink hands, like the servitor who had brought her the glass of shade. One was pumping between her thighs. Another savaged her breasts, worrying at the nipples with his wet red mouth, tearing and chewing.

Symbolises war in Westeros

Vision 2 - War Crime

Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood. Some had lost limbs, even heads. Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread. In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf. He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.

The Red Wedding where Robb Stark was killed under guest right by House Frey. Daenerys will commit a similar war crime in Kingslanding, attacking and killing Aegon VI and his army despite their surrender

There is also a wolf king watching with his eyes following Dany -> This is Robb at the red wedding, but I think this also symbolises Jon after KL blows up mainly because of -

Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and the bloody bath, dark against the sandsilk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames. - AGOT Daenerys VIII

and

What sort of man can stand by idly and watch his own brother being burned alive? - ADWD Jon IX

More here

Vision 3 - Dany's yearning for a home

She fled from him, but only as far as the next open door. I know this room, she thought. She remembered those great wooden beams and the carved animal faces that adorned them. And there outside the window, a lemon tree! The sight of it made her heart ache with longing. It is the house with the red door, the house in Braavos. No sooner had she thought it than old Ser Willem came into the room, leaning heavily on his stick. “Little princess, there you are,” he said in his gruff kind voice. “Come,” he said, “come to me, my lady, you’re home now, you’re safe now.” His big wrinkled hand reached for her, soft as old leather, and Dany wanted to take it and hold it and kiss it, she wanted that as much as she had ever wanted anything. Her foot edged forward, and then she thought, He’s dead, he’s dead, the sweet old bear, he died a long time ago. She backed away and ran.

Dany's yearning for a home sparked her desire to conquer westeros and sit on the Iron throne.

After this room, Daenerys runs forward until she gets out of breath and could run no more.

The long hall went on and on and on, with endless doors to her left and only torches to her right. She ran past more doors than she could count, closed doors and open ones, doors of wood and doors of iron, carved doors and plain ones, doors with pulls and doors with locks and doors with knockers. Drogon lashed against her back, urging her on, and Dany ran until she could run no more.

Drogon urges her on as she runs past many open and closed doors -> the presence of her dragons urges her forward on her journey to conquer Westeros

Part of her would have liked nothing more than to lead her people back to Vaes Tolorro, and make the dead city bloom. No, that is defeat. I have something Viserys never had. I have the dragons. The dragons are all the difference. - ACOK Daenerys III

Vision 4 - Burning of Kingslanding

Finally a great pair of bronze doors appeared to her left, grander than the rest. They swung open as she neared, and she had to stop and look. Beyond loomed a cavernous stone hall, the largest she had ever seen. The skulls of dead dragons looked down from its walls. Upon a towering barbed throne sat an old man in rich robes, an old man with dark eyes and long silver-grey hair.

“Let him be king over charred bones and cooked meat,” he said to a man below him. “Let him be the king of ashes.” Drogon shrieked, his claws digging through silk and skin, but the king on his throne never heard,and Dany moved on.

King Aerys wants to burn Kingslanding. Aerys was prevented from blowing up KL as Jaime killed him before the orders could be passed onto the pyromancers guild. Daenerys will succeed where Aerys failed, because she has dragons unlike her father

Vision 5 - Three heads of the dragon

Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother’s hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. “Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. “What better name for a king?”

“Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked.

“He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. “There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.” He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings.

Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

Three heads of the dragon - Aegon VI (“What better name for a king?”), Daenerys (He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s) and Jon (“There must be one more,") -> Dance of the dragons 2.0

The end of the hallway

It seemed as though she walked for another hour before the long hall finally ended in a steep stone stair, descending into darkness. Every door, open or closed, had been to her left. Dany looked back behind her. The torches were going out, she realized with a start of fear. Perhaps twenty still burned. Thirty at most. One more guttered out even as she watched, and the darkness came a little farther down the hall, creeping toward her. And as she listened it seemed as if she heard something else coming, shuffling and dragging itself slowly along the faded carpet. Terror filled her. She could not go back and she was afraid to stay here, but how could she go on? There was no door on her right, and the steps went down, not up.

There is no door on the right in the entire hall -> No right path to proceed after she makes her choice in Kingslanding (oval room with six passages)

All doors are on the left, darkness is creeping after her, and she hears something shuffling and dragging itself to her which terrorises her (It might be the thing that was trying to break through the closed door in the beginning of the hall). She chooses to enter the last door on the left.

Two more rooms - Aftermath of blowing up KL?

She blindly runs through 8 more rooms, (choosing the right door every time) until she stops to take a breath, in this room (room 9) a vision of Pyat Pree(actually a pale, wormlike creature) tries to trick her towards him. (Maybe assasination attempt? By someone disguised as a man with blue lips/or a warlock/or a priest, since this was only a pale/wormlike creature disguised as a vision of pyat pree) Daenerys' quick thinking saves her from him.

She exits that room with a door to the right, climbs the stairs and enters a door made of Weirwood & Ebony (This part may be related to Arya as the door is similar to the door of the House of Black and White). Inside that room(room 10) there are 4 people (again these 4 people try to trick her, second assasination attempt?), Dany snaps out of their haze when Drogon starts gnawing at the door(Drogon's behavior saves her) and she exits through a door on the right. In the next room she meets the undying ones, who give her visions

[jackoshadows]

The day had come. It was the hour of the wolf. Soon enough the sun would rise, and four thousand wildlings would come pouring through the Wall. Madness. Jon Snow ran his burned hand through his hair and wondered once again what he was doing. Once the gate was opened there would be no turning back. It should have been the Old Bear to treat with Tormund. It should have been Jaremy Rykker or Qhorin Halfhand or Denys Mallister or some other seasoned man. It should have been my uncle. It was too late for such misgivings, though. Every choice had its risks, every choice its consequences. He would play the game to its conclusion. - Jon, ADwD

I like how GRRM goes meta here and speaking through Jon’s character, making his oft argued point that the characters are doing their very best as leaders, hindsight is 20/20 and often there is no getting around the consequences because the circumstances are beyond their control. Was the Old Bear a bad leader? Is that why he is dead? Were Rykker and the Halfhand bad leaders? Every choice these characters make comes with their own risks and consequences and that’s the burden of leadership. This is not a fairy tale of perfect endings and ideal leadership.

And whether it be Ned Stark or Tyrion Lannister or Tywin Lannister or Daenerys Targaryen or Cersei Lannister trying to deal with the real challenges that affect anyone trying to rule the 7K or even a city like Meereen and it’s hard. You know, we can all read the books or read history and say oh, so and so was stupid and made a lot of mistakes and look at all these stupid mistakes they make. But these kind of mistakes are always much more apparent in hind sight than when you are actually faced with the decision about, oh my God, what would I do in this situation. How do I resolve this thing? Do I do the moral thing? But what about  the political consequences of the moral thing? Do I do the pragmatic, cynical thing and kind of screw the people who are screwed by it? I mean, it is HARD. And I want to get to all of that - GRRM

Even Cersei comments on the ‘what ifs’ in AFfC:

It came to her suddenly that she had stood in this very spot before, on the day Lord Eddard Stark had lost his head. That was not supposed to happen. Joff was supposed to spare his life and send him to the Wall. Stark's eldest son would have followed him as Lord of Winterfell, but Sansa would have stayed at court, a hostage. [...] If Joff had only done as he was told, Winterfell would never have gone to war, and Father would have dealt with Robert's brothers. Instead Joff had commanded that Stark's head be struck off, and Lord Slynt and Ser Ilyn Payne had hastened to obey. It was just there, the queen recalled, gazing at the spot. Janos Slynt had lifted Ned Stark's head by the hair as his life's blood flowed down the steps, and after that there was no turning back. - Cersei, AFfC

Ned Stark is often labelled a bad politician for dooming his family, and yet no one could have foreseen what Joffrey did. As Cersei says - ‘This was not supposed to happen’.

I also love the blatant, right in front of our face foreshadowing here:

Every choice had its risks, every choice its consequences. He would play the game to its conclusion. 

He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont's raven muttered across the room. "Corn," the bird said, and, "King," and, "Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow." That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall. - Jon, ADwD

From Jon thinking that he would play the game to it’s conclusion to the raven calling him King Jon Snow!

[swordsandarms]

I sometimes wonder why certain sections of the fandom reas those.Like noone in the series is some sort of an innocent pure baby, so I don't get why Dany is get treated as some sort of the most evill character ever...The series is a dark one ane should accept no character is innocent

1. This is probably the most rational post I've about why Daenerys is so hated by fans of female characters in particular. Female power is something only to be wistful about for any others, particularly in the way she gets to have it. And it's not even like to get and keep her power is an easy journey, or is god forbid lacking in difficult concessions. Particularly, there can't be multiple kinds of women's positions of power, they need to have cat fights for crumbs, and ought to do that as per male validation.

2. For the male characters fans it's more obvious and I shouldn't have to look for a meta - how dare a girl be more powerful than them and be a threat to men always being on top.

The sexist GOT show had male leadership leaning on both of these principles. They made a mockery of a female led group of characters of note they brought together to surround Daenerys, gave them cheesy "woman power" quotes, had them make out for a minute of the two they were of one party so they can have some use for male gratification amirite, then "put them in their place" by killing them one by one.

Then they airdrop show!Sansa in, has her hilariously employing the perfidy of various men who laugh at the idea of them females wanting power ahead of male relatives (flashback to the melodramatic framing of same character being portrayed as bitter over a male relative being declared to instead - WANTING AND DENIED is where women's idea of power should reside for 7.9 seasons out of 8).

A cringe fest of how supposedly a merely being some guy with almost nothing to your name prevails over time and effort gains in your own name as a woman, contradictory to the point of the actual FAegon in the books, made to face the cold fact his aunt is the self made Dragon Queen and he is nothing, going to her as a beggar (like watching that Barbie movie part where Ken learns about the patriarchy and confidently shows up at the hospital asking to be made a doctor - except only one was meant as a parody). Then the woman has... hysteria.... because a boy doesn't like her. The end.

So it's really not about how "dark" Dany is. If she is ruthless, she has the audacity to do what men do instead of knowing her womanly place. If she is lenient, she proves she is a bad leader than any other for being a weak woman (Point 2). If there is to be a female lead, she will be a manic pixie girl of a feudal's Lord PATRIARCHAL HEART who will be condescending to other women in public and affable to men, dropping 'smartly' whispered hints in secluded corners that will make them SEE HER ❤️❤️❤️ and reward her!! She's different ❤️❤️❤️ (Point 1).

[lives4lovesworld]

This meta will highlight GRRM own bias and double standards when it comes to his (= the narrative's) judgement of Aerys II Targaryen, as well as the insincerity of the fandom's obsession and exaggeration of Aerys II's "madness" and cruelty.

GRRM singles Aerys out in his cruelty and has it directly linked to his unstable mental state, which is quite ironic(?) if one i) actually consideres how normalized violence, collective punishment and arbitrariness in ASoIaF world is. Yet few and far between are actually mad, and even fewer dubbed as such, and ii) puts his in direct comparison to other characters, which are never condemned as much as Aerys (if at all) by the narrative. And the fandom naturally doubles down on GRRM hypocrisy (given how anti!Targaryen it is) and insists to exaggerate Aerys's madness in every sense to one up against Daenerys Stormborn.

Aerys is condemn for his preferred method of execution. The fandom even goes so far to write numerous metas arguing death-through-fire somehow is crueler, worser and morally more appaling than any other method, especially when it's a Targaryen monarch to use it. This absurdity as already been refuted a couple of times in the context of defending show!Daenerys burning large parts of her enemies in the field, instead of the having her men exclusively killing them in battle. But as always it falls on deaf ears, since this hypocritical fandom holds Targaryen (and only Targaryens) to modern standards, to the point where they are condemn for executing their enemies. PERIOD.

And Aerys is the biggest victim of this absurdity. Both within the fandom (since nobody cares for him, no one defends him in pointing out the double standards) and narrative (since Daenerys has, unlike what the fandom conjuncts out of thin air, never burned anyone but Mirri Maz Duur and is a rescuer above all so GRRM obviously does and can not condemn her for deeds she didn't commit).

For example, he and Stannis Baratheon have both burnt their hands for "bad counsel during the war". Qarlton Chelsted was burned for his objection against Aerys's plan to torch King's Landing and Alester Florent for the letter that offered Stannis's full surrender (x) to House Lannister, after his lethal demise at the Blackwater (x). Stannis's hand was even his kin (through marriage) and in killing him, he committed one of the gravest crimes in their world. Yet Stannis is neither condemn as "mad" for the execution nor for the kinslaying nor the style of said execution.

The only thing GRRM seems to condemn Stannis for are his reasons behind all of his "sacrifices"; which is to misuse the power of death for his own personal gain. Be it to murder Renly to avoid defeat, take a rival out and gain his army, for favorable winds for his expedition, put a stop to the blizzard or gain dragons/be Azor Ahai. Although all of Stannis's misfortunes in his failing campaign for the Iron Throne (his demise at the Blackwater, his inability to gain anyone's genuine support, House Karstark's betrayal and the blizzard) could be interpreted as narrative punishment, Stannis's reputation (as a righteous, capable man) within the narrative never suffers.

The fandom as well has no qualms how Stannis let his uncle be burned alive in order. Especially, those that refuse to accept that Stannis is in fact NOT Azor Ahai, do not even condemn for that. It's excused as "means to an end" or "products of his time". Another prime example of the fandom's blatant hypocrisy and double standards one might add; While members of House Targaryen are condemn for the use of magic, especially blood sacrifices, and Daenerys is even accuse of burning people alive and kinslaying without this being the case, Stannis is allowed to utilize (blood and dark) magic, (consider) murder and burn people as he pleases, (consider) kinslaying (nephew, brother uncle-in-law and in the future his own daughter) and still be proclaimed the Right Man to Rule™ and altruistic TKwC.

Somehow in the fandom's nonsensical moral belief system Aerys depriving sadistic pleasure in watching men burn makes it apparently morally more appaling than Stannis's religious frantic, megalomaniac reasoning ("for the greater good") behind his executions (and given the fact that he is in fact NOT Azor Ahai/The Chosen One one could argue all these sacrifice are completely in vain.)

Aerys's cruelty is not unique for the ASoIaF world. And more importantly, I would dare to say that most of his "atrocities" such as i) the annihilation of House Darklyns and Hollard ii) the maiming of Ilyan Payne iii) his execution of Brandon Stark, Rickard Stark and their escort and his call for Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon's heads and iv) him prohibiting Elia Martell and her children to leave King's Landing, would not be seen as one of a madman, if Aerys's mental decline would have NOT been as apparent.

i) Lord Deny seized his King, killed his escort and subjected Aerys to torture for about half a year and threatened to have him killed in hopes to get the desired charter for Duskendale granted, that had been denied.

This was unprovoked high treason and broke all the laws such as the sacred guest right, the king's peace and all vows to obey and defend the king. How exactly should a king have dealt with such an uprising and insult to his person and political power? Which ruler would have suffered such grand affront, without exerting harsh punishment? Which ruler could have even allowed himself to be merciful, if it meant he will be seen as a weak king, signaling to the rest of the realm that one can take the king captive and hold hostage and get away with it?

To put in perspective; Robert Baratheon brutally smashed Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, burnt their homes, broke their castles, raped and murder the common folk and lastly gave Balon's last son as hostage to Eddard Stark to secure Balon's submission (x) after his elder brothers were slain. House Reyne and House Tarbeck were both in debt to House Lannister. Soley to restore House Lannister's prestige, Tywin demanded immediate repayment from them, (hostages if it was not possible). Both houses refused. Despite Tytos Lannister settling the matter, Tywin deliberately provoked both houses by ordering their respective lords to answer to Casterly Rock for their crimes. When refused, Tywin (without the leave of his lordly father!) raised an army and started his war of annihilation. The ruins of these houses' castles were left as reminders of the fate that awaits those who scorn the power of Casterly Rock, and "The Rains of Castamere" was written as a tribute to the event. Stannis Baratheon considered torching and raiding Claw Isle as punishment for its Lord bending the knee in captivity and House Stark extinguished House Greystark when it rose in rebellion together with House Bolton.

None of these extreme violent acts are deemed as "[their] terrible revenge" nor are these men seen as mad, cruel or unfit. And mind you, no one of these men experienced captivity and torture on their own person.

When one such reported that the captain of the Hand's personal guard, a knight named Ser Ilyn Payne, had been heard boasting it was Lord Tywin who truly ruled the Seven Kingdoms, His Grace sent the Kingsguard to arrest the man and had his tongue ripped out with red-hot pincers. - TWoIaF; The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II

ii) The maiming of Ilyan Payne is seen as way too extreme even for ASoIaF (only exclusively by the fandom) and as "Aerys being unable to hear the hard truth", despite a monarch (unfortunately) being well in his rights to teach his subject "respect", if he openly mocks his better, extreme violent punishment from a ruler being normalized as sign of strength and a warning to any potential rebels.

The crimes everything boils down to;

The full depth of King Aerys's madness was subsequently revealed in his depraved actions against Lord Stark, his heir, and their supporters after they demanded redress for Rhaegar's wrongs. Instead of granting them fair hearing, King Aerys had them brutally slain, then followed these murders by demanding that Lord Jon Arryn execute his former wards, Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark. - TWoIaF; The Fall of the Dragons: Robert’s Rebellion

iii) While the inverse-annals are clearly baised, GRRM has made it clear that Aerys is responsible for the rebellion (x), and that his call to execute them all was another product of his cruelty and paranoia. Which omits any nuance the situation had such nuances as;

Brandon and Rickard were on their way again back to Riverrun for the impending wedding between him and Catelyn Tully, when word reached Brandon of Lyanna's supposed abduction by Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. Brandon, along with his squire Ethan Glover, Kyle Royce, Elbert Arryn, and Jeffory Mallister, rode to King's Landing immediately. Upon entering the Red Keep, Brandon shouted for Rhaegar to "come out and die". Rhaegar was not present, however, and Brandon and his companions were arrested by King Aerys II Targaryen and charged with plotting Rhaegar's murder. - awoiaf.westeros.org; Aerys II Targaryen: Year of the False Spring 

A paramount lord and his heir barging into the royal court of a king (half of which would rather dethrone him and most did not see him as the ruler of the realm) and brazenly demand the crown prince's head BASED ON RUMORS alone in front of said court. For a supposed crime that stands in direct contrary to what is known of said heir (x, x, x).

While it's a well established fact that this fandom only intrest is to present House Stark as poor, oppressed, altruistic and wronged victims and House Targaryen as the evil warmongering lunatics, it is still mind blowing to see people glorify Brandon's stupidity as Protective Big Bro Thang™, talk how he should have escape the situation unscattered (because they believe the starks are the Main Characters™ and should have all the Syndromes (like plot armor) of one) and his execution being yet another uncalled atrocity of Aerys's madness, when Brandon literally has committed high treason through his rash actions. Even Catelyn call Brandon's action "rash" and his would-be father-in-law Hoster Tully called him a "gallant fool" for it.

A highborn father that would have politely ask them to lay out their complains (again) behind closed doors so he might calmly listen to these allegations and their wish to see his oldest one dead after the spectacle of their entrance, has yet to be named by obnoxious neutrals and "intellectuals" preaching such scenario as the solution to this fiasco.

Realistically speaking, what should Aerys have done with a paramount lord, his heir and their escort breaking the king's peace and threatening House Targaryen's power by demanding the Crown Prince's head? Insulted this gravely that they about to rise in rebellion with mighty allies. When it comes to this situation Aerys had been caught between a rock and a hard place;

He could have a) dismissed the accusations, let them go home and have the realm think of him as weak. Home to their seats, where hot headed Brandon would have likely raised the north in rebellion anyway and whose brother's foster brother Robert Baratheon would have likely joined him for his wounded pride. Risk the riverlands to stand with them as well for their siege lord's daughter Catelyn would have wed Brandon Stark. Possibly the Vale too, for Jon Arryn's beloved forster son's brother has raised in rebellion and his bride is Lord Tully's other daughter and Brandon Stark's sister in law. Or b) use this incident to dispose his 'disloyal son', so his chosen heir Viserys would have less threats in his ascend on the throne later on, yet simountanastly signaling the realm that one can demand a Targaryen prince's head based on rumors alone. Establishing a most dangerous precedent for the future of House Targaryen.

What might have salvage the situation without an all-out-war or an unacceptable, most dangerous precedent for House Targaryen('s might) would have been to dismiss the accusations. Instead of summoning the fathers of the escort and executing them all along with Rickard and Brandon, he should have send them to the Wall (which would have made Eddard Lord of Winterfell) and send for Benjen Stark as cupbearer or squire at the court (so he might functions as hostage over the North).

And even this might have not have worked for i) it would have been still a too mild punishment for conspiring to murder the Iron Throne' heir and ii) for they could have just refuse to take the black once at the Wall, return to Winterfell with the help of the Night Watch and call to war anyway (though House Tully and Arryn might have been more reluctant to join them in such a scenario)

Do these nuances make Rickard, Brandon and Co's execution less gruesome and the call for Eddard and Robert's death morally justified? No, but they show that they could have been committed by a sane sovereign too. But instead of being seen as actions of a madman they would have been seen as too-harsh (failed) precautions. (IMO Tywin and Stannis would act the same way in such a situation with the big difference that they would be cold and caculative, whereas Aerys had become aroused)

Princess Elia would have gone as well, but he forbade it. Somehow he had gotten it in his head that Prince Lewyn must have betrayed Rhaegar on the Trident, but he thought he could keep Dorne loyal so long as he kept Elia and Aegon by his side. - TWpIaF; The Fall of the Dragons; The End

iv) Same with iii) if one was to look at the political situation (especially before the rebellion) and analyze Aerys's actions without dismissing them all as one kf a deranged lunatic, this particular action was actually quite savvy.

Prior to the rebellion, the royal court had been devided into two parties; the king's and the prince's;

Chief amongst the Mad King's supporters were three lords of his small council: Qarlton Chelsted, master of coin, Lucerys Velaryon, master of ships, and Symond Staunton, master of laws. The eunuch Varys, master of whisperers, and Wisdom Rossart, grand master of the Guild of Alchemists, also enjoyed the king's trust. Prince Rhaegar's support came from the younger men at court, including Lord Jon Connington, Ser Myles Mooton of Maidenpool, and Ser Richard Lonmouth. The Dornishmen who had come to court with the Princess Elia were in the prince's confidence as well, particularly Prince Lewyn Martell, Elia's uncle and a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard. But the most formidable of all Rhaegar's friends and allies in King's Landing was surely Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. - TWoIaF; The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring

Essentially the Second Dance of Dragons was brewing;

To Grand Maester Pycelle and Lord Owen Merryweather, the King's Hand, fell the unenviable task of keeping peace between these factions, even as their rivalry grew ever more venomous. In a letter to the Citadel, Pycelle wrote that the divisions within the Red Keep reminded him uncomfortably of the situation before the Dance of the Dragons a century before, when the enmity between Queen Alicent and Princess Rhaenyra had split the realm in two, to grievous cost. A similarly bloody conflict might await the Seven Kingdoms once again, he warned, unless some accord could be reached that would satisfy both Prince Rhaegar's supporters and the king's. - TWoIaF; The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring  

So contrary to the fandom's insistence of Aerys's reason behind his prohibition for Elia and the children to leave the capital being unreasonable paranoia or malice (or even godamn racism??), Aerys was smart. By ensuring that they were located in the capital, he gave the dornish forces a reason to defend it (essentially ensuring his survival) then had Elia and the children been safely in Sunspear or Dragonstone, they would have had no reason to continue to fight (and be slowly overrun) for the defense of King's Landing if the only one remaining there was the king that had disinherited Rhaegar's entire lineage and proclaimed Viserys his heir after Rhaegar death at the Trident (ergo putting an end to Dorne's hope to size the Iron Throne through a Martell-Queen Consort and later a half Martell-king).

Also contrary to the fandom's insistence on how Aerys's cruelty and paranoia breaks even Westeros's norm in taking hostages in war, even from his supposed allies and families (through marriages) is not unusual; the kings of the Winter are known to have taken child hostages to secure their subjects' submission, Quentyn had been given to Lord Yronwood as "blood debt" by Doran Martell. Theon had been taken hostage by Eddard Stark to ensure his father's submission. The Redwyne twins have been taken hostages by the Lannister court to ensure their father's loyalty (to lend them his fleet in their war). Where is the condemnation for them? Also contrary to the fandom's insistence highborn hostages, especially those who are considered family members are also not treated badly. They experience most of the privileges their birth and status grants them. Cases such Sansa in King's Landing and Jaime in Riverrun are the expection, not the rule.

But what is to expect from a fandom that lays the blame for Elia Martell and her children's gruesome murders on Aerys Targaryen (her father-in-law and their grandfather) and Rhaegar Targaryen (her by-then dead husband and their father) instead on the heads of the rebels like the liege lord of the men to commit the murders (Tywin Lannister) or the self-styled king (Robert Baratheon) who sanctioned these murders later (going so far as to making mentioned liege lord his father-in-law)?

Aerys II Targaryen has always been exclusively presented by the fandom as this horrendous sadistic monster without a heart. Every act of his a epitome of stupidity and cruelty with Aerys's madness as an inevitable by-product from coming from an incestuous union, despite this not supported being the text.

Aerys Targaryen was not born that way. His mental state in his later years was a product of the immense trauma he experienced throughout his entire life; from witnessing the death of his entire family when he was 15 years old, to being powerless as he and Rhaella were forced to suffer still births, miscarriages and dead babes in the cribs to his imprisonment and torture in Duskendale (x). The justified constant fear of being dethroned by his own son (x) and the feeling of never being deemed worthy or competent enough by others to the point where he not even seen as The King (x) likely only added to his instability and cruelty.

His paranoia, especially concerned Tywin Lannister and Rhaegar Targaryen, was also anything but irrational; Aerys was not in the wrong to mistrust Rhaegar as he later planned to dethrone him, which could only result in Aerys’s death should Rhaegar wish to ascend the throne as comfortable as possible. Nor for being wary of Tywin Lannister, who gambled with his life at Duskendale in hopes to get Rhaegar on the throne with his daughter as his queen. (x)

Aerys was not a fool to prevent Tywin from becoming Rhaegar’s father-in-law. Before the rebellion, they were the biggest threats to Aerys’s reign. Not only did he prevent an alliance between his two greastest threats, in giving Rhaegar Elia Martell to wife. The princess to the least densly populated kingdom (which is quite hated by the more "civilized" southern kingdoms such as the Dornish Marches, Reach and Stormlands for their blood feuds (x,x)) and with a small army, he also prevented Rhaegar from gaining exponentially more support had he married a noble daughter from a house with more wealth, resources and men (like Cersei Lannister)

And mind you (!) had Steffon Baratheon succeeded in finding a "maid of noble birth from an old Valyrian bloodline" in the Free Cities, Aerys would have given Rhaegar's a woman to wife that has absolutely no ties to any kingdom (which would have given him no political advantage beside whatever wealth her family would have had across the sea) and who would bee seen as 'foreign stranger', similar to Larra Rogar, Viserys II's wife.

Such a choice at the time was politically quite savvy: His supposed heir secured the succession without shifting the power balance too much by preventing Rhaegar from amassing even more support through an more politically advantageous match. That this choice later on backfired in the face of an external political threat (e.g. the rebellion) was unforeseeable and unfortunate.

Jaime's rise to a kingsguard was as well a less then perfect solution by Aerys for his (justified) fears; in appointing Jaime as kingsguard he had gained the most valuable hostage against any possible rebellion from Tywin Lannister, but he also had to endure Tywin's son day and night as shadow. Aerys seemed to have played by the motto "keep your friends close, but your foes closer" with Jaime as he had previously done with Tywin, whom he had refused to dismiss as Hand or accept his resignation (x, x) and suffered greatly from it (at first mentally, later with his life). (x)

As said, the reason why I wrote this meta was to showcase the imsincerity of the fandom's obsession and exaggeration of Aerys II's "madness" and cruelty, as well as to point the nuances that are often overlooked simply because Aerys was mad.

Afterall, how comes that Aerys's cruelty and madness is more empathized than anyone else's by the fandom? Where does the intrest and obsession for it as well as the need to deliberately twist Aerys's relatively peaceful reign (x, x) into one of terror unseen before come from?

Simple because Aerys's cruelty and madness must be given such great narrative and political importance, and his reign must be one of the darkest times yet, so when dany antis proceed to write their "metas" of how of Daenerys will be rejected by Westeros, never know home or love, become the-hidden-mad!queen-all-along™ and step into her father's foot steps by torching King's Landing and committing mass murder, have a "basis". The first one is even more ridiculous considering that Rhagear was beloved during his days, and is still, despite actually living under Aerys's roof till his 16th birthday, unlike Dany.

Nothing more, and one knows so because the same people won't predicted the same for their tool-character "Aegon VI" who is the Mad King's supposed grandson and son to Prince Rhaegar, whom most of them condemn just as harshly for whatever headcanon (pRophECy oBbsEsSed, vIsenYa) that has been treated as canon for too long. Not to mention that there is an abundance of characters whose fathers were horrible, yet there aren't daily posts on a character's utter mental decline based upon their father's flaws. (bioessentialism)

In conclusion and defense of Aerys II Targaryen; i) he is as much of a victim of tragedy and cruelty than he was an enabler, ii) his paranoia was not unreasonable iii) his cruelty is not at all unique for the medivial ASoIaF world nor in comparison to other characters. In fact neither his paranoia nor his cruelty makes him stand out in his madness, but rather his manic-depressive behavior iv) how his mental state does not render all of his decisions as one of a mad man.

I would also like to say that a forced abdication of Aerys decided by a Great Council with Rhaegar ascending the throne would have neither be the perfect solution as it is often presented. Had his abdication gone relatively smoothly (which would NOT have necessarily be the case (x)) it would shaken the laws and rules of Westeros to its core.

As the first Great Council had done it, it would have given the lords of the realm again the idea and power to decide who is to rule them. Which would have not be the positive, progressive, humanitarian step towards democracy as most mistake it but path a way of war and instability ambitious, vile lords would have misused for their own gain yet again.

If the first Great Council had established an iron precedent on the matter of succession, than such a second one (in which the lords could abdicate their rightful king because they are not content with him) would have path the way for any man to inherit his male relative's position if he manges to convince enough of his subjects to abdicate their current sovereign and put him as his heir (as son, brother, nephew, grandson etc...) through bribery and whatnot.

An era of chaos unseen would follow. Just imagine what the lords of the realm would have done with a king like Aegon V that would robb them some of their absolute power through his reforms. It would hollow out the crown of any power to protect and serve the small folk (be it through humanitarian reforms, against its lords or plan costly, necessary infrastructure)

The wars such as the Wot5K are a direct result of the illegitimacy of Robert's rebellion and how it had shaken Westeros's laws. Instead of the once rather cemented hereditary monarchy, Robert opened the door for Westeros to be wreaked by every sovereign that believes he can muster enough manpower to establish himself a self-styled King. (x)

IMO instead of gathering a Second Great Council, Rhaegar honestly should have just found a discreet way to have his father's poisoned. Although this would have been OCC for noble, valiant Rhaegar and quite harsh to expect from a son to do to his father (no matter their estranged relationship) it would the most practical decision.

[esther-dot]

"The sound rumbled across the city like thunder, warning of the storm to come."- Sansa(AGOT IV). It's after Robert's death and crowning of Joffery. "Now the storm is coming, a storm such as these isles have never known."- AFFC. It's about Euron. Both Joffery and Euron are associated with storms. And then there is Dany who was born in storm known as Stormborn.

Storms are used in a couple different ways, I think. Often, writers insert them to have the weather mimic a character’s emotional state, or as your quotes are used, to give the reader a sense of foreboding. GoT ultimately decided to contrast Dany’s birth which was welcomed with a horrible storm to Sansa’s which was celebrated with the ringing of bells to indicate to the audience the devastation one would bring to Westeros and the endgame for the other. Martin also uses the threat of storms, particularly in the North, as a practical concern that impacts the plot.

But, you’re right, it’s a negative thing about certain characters too, and there definitely is a building momentum with the Dany / Euron storm quotes. It’s foreboding for Westeros, also seems to indicate a struggle between the two of them:

She had been born on Dragonstone nine moons after their flight, while a raging summer storm threatened to rip the island fastness apart. They said that storm was terrible. The Targaryen fleet was smashed while it lay at anchor, and huge stone blocks were ripped from the parapets and sent hurtling into the wild waters of the narrow sea. Her mother had died birthing her, and for that her brother Viserys had never forgiven her. (AGOT, Daenerys I)

No squall could frighten Dany, though. Daenerys Stormborn, she was called, for she had come howling into the world on distant Dragonstone as the greatest storm in the memory of Westeros howled outside, a storm so fierce that it ripped gargoyles from the castle walls and smashed her father's fleet to kindling. (ASOS, Daenerys I)

Initially, the storms are about her birth but then we have the kraken thrown in there:

"We are the ones who are lost, ser. Drogon has no taste for this wet creeping, no more than I do." Bolder than the other two, her black dragon had been the first to try his wings above the water, the first to flutter from ship to ship, the first to lose himself in a passing cloud . . . and the first to kill. The flying fish no sooner broke the surface of the water than they were enveloped in a lance of flame, snatched up, and swallowed. "How big will he grow?" Dany asked curiously. "Do you know?"

"In the Seven Kingdoms, there are tales of dragons who grew so huge that they could pluck giant krakens from the seas."

Dany laughed. "That would be a wondrous sight to see."

----

"There are dangers at sea as well. Corsairs and pirates hunt the southern route, and north of Valyria the Smoking Sea is demon-haunted. The next storm could sink or scatter us, a kraken could pull us under . . . or we might find ourselves becalmed again, and die of thirst as we wait for the wind to rise. A march will have different dangers, my queen, but none greater." (ASOS, Daenerys I)

and then of course, these more specifically about the danger of Euron and his ambition:

He was born a lord's son and died a king, murdered by a jealous god, Aeron thought, and now the storm is coming, a storm such as these isles have never known. (AFFC, The Prophey)

"So are the contents of my chamber pot. None is fit to sit the Seastone Chair, much less the Iron Throne. No, to make an heir that's worthy of him, I need a different woman. When the kraken weds the dragon, brother, let all the world beware." (AFFC, The Reaver)

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."     (ADWD, Daenerys II)

Here’s a great meta about “Storm x Storm” by ladyofasoiaf, and some additional foreshadowing here by istumpy.