#cultural disconnect

[writingwithcolor]

Author with cultural disconnect: How do I write without making it seem as if I hate my own heritage?

Anonymous asked:

I’m a white-passing Asian author, and I’ve never felt all that connected with my heritage. My current story centers on a fairy (re: fantasy-world POC) child and ends with her realizing that her parents are toxic af and her human best friend’s family takes her in. This is the perfect opportunity to sort through my own issues with my heritage and finally convince my monkey-brain that it’s okay to not know how to cook Vietnamese food or celebrate tet or speak Vietnamese… But I also realize that if I’m not careful, this could easily slip into “Hey, I hate my heritage and so should you!” So how can I stop that from happening?

Writing for yourself first, not an audience

I ask you a simple question: why put pressure on yourself to have any sort of non-offensive messaging for a story that hasn’t been drafted yet and is to convince your monkey brain it’s okay to exist as yourself?

That seems like the fastest way to stop the story from being actually cathartic and instead a performance art piece when you already feel hung up on performing as “properly” part of your culture.

As I said in Working Through Identity Issues and Other Pitfalls of Representation, not all stories you write need to be for public consumption. Especially stories you’re using for your own self-processing and therapy, because you’re trying to get a cathartic moment that is rewriting your own story.

At what point does the public need to be involved in that?

I do understand the compulsion to want to post—I have definitely posted some Questionable™ material in my drive to get validation for feeling the way I do, wanting people to witness me and say “same.” It’s a powerful urge. Sometimes it’s worked, but most of the time it’s just made me feel horrifically exposed.

But you really do not have to post in public to get any sort of validation. Set up a groupchat with friends if you want the cheerleading and witnessing—people who will know your story and give you good-faith interpretations and won’t accuse you of anything. Honestly I’d suggest setting up this groupchat anyway; as someone who just got one again after quite a few years without it, my productivity has skyrocketed from being around supportive people.

Let the monkey brain have its monkey brain moment and shut off the concept the story is for the public. Shut off the concept of performing for an unknown audience. It’s for you. Be authentic, no matter how bad it would look to outsiders. They’re not reading it. Part of getting catharsis, sometimes, is being the worst version of yourself, somewhere nobody else can see it.

Deciding to publish the work

If, after you do write it, you find that you actually do want to polish it up and put it somewhere… edit it. Rewrite it entirely if that’s what it takes. Take the story through the same drafting process every story needs to go through, ripping out the unfortunate implications as you go.

Editing can be its own form of healing, as you try to figure out what this character would need to not be hateful. As you realize, once this longform journal entry is out of your head, what was bothering you now that you can see it pinned down on a page. But you absolutely do not need to write with the intention of editing in that healing. When I’ve tried, it’s fallen flat.

The healing will come from being yourself, no public involved, and writing about your feelings in their rawest form. Anything else is extra.

There’s no point in trying to put guard rails on the drafting process, not for a deeply personal piece. And by the time that drafting process is done, you’ll likely have specific scenarios and contexts that you can ask about, and you might even have ideas on how to fix it yourself once the story has a shape to it.

This is 100% a situation where there’s no real sense in idea workshopping something in the plotting stage. You’re doing something for you. Decide if it’s for public consumption later (while acknowledging “no” is a perfectly valid answer), and only figure out how to make the story not overtly harmful if you decide to put it out into the public.

~ Leigh

[konjacjellysoup]

Southeast-asian chinese miku but she’s a 4th gen immigrant who’s never gotten to try hanfu on in her life because we only have cheongsams here,,,

i’m also part peranakan so heres peranakan miku

[squidthusiast]

Tfw your beautiful girlfriend explains all the Alien movies’ plots to you before she goes to bed.

[uncanny-tranny]

The hardest, but most important, part of my transition has been untangling what my personal dysphoria is, and what is more a result of cissexism.

What I mean by this is that I learned that I am not dysphoric about certain aspects of myself, my body, and my life, but my discomfort in these aspects was influenced by the cissexist culture I live in which told me I couldn't exist as myself.

It's definitely a slow process, but I have found that it helps me self-actualize and actually see myself instead of what others demand of me.

[scarletardor]

Having a conversation about your heritage when Sylus finds a traditional Hmong baby carrier with your stored items. Tiniest callback to the Beyond Cloudfall myth. fem!reader. ty @meena-in-a-nutshell for beta reading <3

“Sweetie, what’s this?”

Emerging from the hall, Sylus holds in his hands a tight, awry bundle of fabric. It’s familiar to you, as you tilt your head in observation. Once at your side, the jumble of various cloths becomes more visible as he sets it down in front of you.

It’s completely handmade, the preface of long strips of cotton wrapped around flatter, delicate silk. Around the increments of silk that peak out, there’s some semblance of puff balls, delicately stitched patterns, and miniature beads. As you undo the giant knot that secures it at the back, your eyes widen when you remember why you had this tucked away in a box, burrowed deeply in the closet of this particular safe house.

Idly, you muster a strained, “Oh.”

You lay out the rest of the silk: it’s two rectangular panels stitched together, the bottom chunk longer and wider. The entire piece is handmade, cross-stitches of textiles framed by thinner, multi-colored lines. Adorned by those same puff balls, you can make out the miniature stitching of floral diamonds. The thick strips of cotton are sewn into the top sides of the silk, the rest of it crumpling onto the ground due to their length.

Sylus sits beside you, placing his hand on your back, “Sweetie?”

“It’s…” You clear your throat, sparing a glance towards him, “Something my grandma gave me. It’s a baby carrier.”

He takes a moment to process your words, running his own calloused fingers over the beautiful textile. Family… was a precarious subject for you. While you spoke of your heritage every now and then, there was always a tinge of restraint or stumbling in your words. Even resent.

“It’s beautiful,” he tells you earnestly. He leans on his elbow, resting his chin on his hand as he gazes at you with a familiar, tender gaze. He’s patient, waiting to see if this was something you would be comfortable talking about further.

You hum pensively, flattening your hands over the carrier, “It’s called a nyais. Normally you can buy them at local the New Year festivals, but it’s more... traditional? Righteous? To have it passed down from your grandma.”

Finally, Sylus lets his demeanor falter. He’s in the clear to press further, to be more curious. He chuckles, like he would before laying out the debaucherous end of his enemies, “You don’t appear thrilled to have it in your possession.”

“I’m not ungrateful to have it, like my parents think,” you sigh. “When you’re constantly hounded about how you will have kids… it’s nauseating to have the heirlooms representative of that.”

Sylus is waiting for you to finish. You two have had discussions about the future before.

About this.

Your hands fall in your lap, and you’re failing to meet his gaze now. You’re thinking too hard—about all of this. Instead of continuing, you look back at the nyais, beginning to fold it up.

He stops you, cupping your working hands with one. Sylus clears his throat, intending to steer the conversation: “But you haven’t thrown it away.”

“I can’t bring myself to.”

You let go of the carrier, interlacing your fingers with his, “They always remind me that I used to speak so much Hmong when I was a kid. A toddler. Then it… all went away, when I got older.”

“Because you went to school. Learning an entirely different language, social customs. Things beyond your control.”

“Correct.”

“And what do you make of it?”

You grimace at first, then chuckle: “It’s kind of fucked up, isn’t it? Forgetting my own culture just to exist with others. And even then, assimilating into what is a model citizen still feels very… out of place. Like I still don’t belong.”

Sylus doesn’t say it outright—feels like he doesn’t need to—but he knows the feeling. You’ve yet to know why, your memory still a haze. So he settles for squeezing your hands a bit firmer than a second before, right along the last few words you speak.

When in Rome, as the Romans do.

He continues the conversation, “Do you think… you’d reconcile with that distance at all? The disconnect?”

The question is loaded, but effective in that it makes you consider. Reflecting on your upbringing, and how quickly everything shifted. You didn’t even think you’d end up where you are now—settled with a partner who listens to these grievances and doesn’t think you’re crazy.

But nothing of substance comes to mind.

Your gaze falls on the nyais once more, discomfort no longer present.

“I don’t know,” you finally answer—sliding into Sylus’ lap and leaning into him. Naturally, his arms wrap around you, holding you closer.

Warmth envelops you like a fireplace on a snowy day.

When parts inside of you begin to fester in emptiness, somehow Sylus always comes along at the right time. Almost like he feels the pull that something is amiss—or it’s fate’s own unique way of protecting a love meant to be. Your ancestors making up for everything you have burdened for so long.

Then, you feel it—that very warmth blossoming into something else. Something very Sylus, within the capabilities he possesses.

His smooth, timbre voice whispering into your hair: “Kuv hlub koj.”

You straighten your posture, instantly finding those crimson eyes that always had a fondness reserved for you. Your own gaze widens, blurred by tears as you smile. You laugh—and though it’s always beautiful, Sylus hears it differently.

There’s relief, a unique kind of joy incapable of being put into the right words to do it justice. He treasures it, sealing the memory with his lips brushing against yours.

[owlhari]

[filipinos your nerdy prudes]

grace is mixed (mark is filipino) and was raised to have a deep love for her culture. max is also mixed but after his mom's disappearance, his dad refused to talk about her or share any of her culture with max. he passes very well as white, so he largely forgot about that half of his identity.

in a max redemption au, grace teaches him about their heritage and he gets super into it :]

[lgbtlunaverse]

Thinking of the Nie disciple that told Nie Mingjue it was Meng Yao who stayed behind to clean up corpses on the battlefield today.

Nie Mingjue didn't just randomly stumble upon poor lil meowyao eating bread in the novel, he was already looking for him to thank and reward him for his work.

That's what makes it so fun that nieyao's first conflict will end up being about someone else taking credit for Meng Yao's work.

And I'm sure that Nie Mingjue's actual opinions on plagiarism are a lot more nuanced, all we really get from him in this scene is "well you shouldn't kill someone over it!" which leaves a lot of room for what punishments he thinks are appropiate. But I bet that it isn't occuring to him in this moment that the only reason he knows Meng Yao at all, the only reason he got such a capable deputy, is that he noticed someone was taking care of the dead and cared enough to want to know their name. And then the Nie disciples didn't lie to him. The disciple he asked could have said "it was me, Zongzhu" to rise in the ranks himself, but he didn't. He went and asked others, who all also could have taken the credit, but they didn't. Someone saw Meng Yao working and decided to be honest about it and that simple decision is the catalyst for Meng Yao becoming Nie Mingjue's deputy.

Meng Yao can't just work hard to get results, others have to acknowledge that work. If they don't, it's as if he didn't do anything at all.

[writingwithcolor]

Characters reconnecting with their ancestral cultures in an interplanetary setting

@pixiedustandpetrichor asked:

Hi! I am writing a novel with three main female characters in an interplanetary setting. They grow up as orphans in an Irish-coded country and as children are mostly exposed to solely that culture, but they leave after becoming adults. Character A is Tuareg-coded, B Mongolian-coded, and C is Germanic-coded. It isn’t central to the story, but I would like them to get in touch with/learn more about their ancestral cultures, especially in terms of religion. A does this by actually visiting the planet her parents came from, but B and C do not. What can I do to depict their relationships with said cultures and their journey to reconnect with them? Would it be realistic for each of them to have different mixed feelings about participating in these cultures and for them to retain some sense of belonging to the culture they grew up in as well? Thank you for your time.

Hello, asker! WWC doesn’t have Tuareg or Mongol mods at the moment, so we're not able to speak to the specifics of cultural and religious reconnection for these particular groups. Still, I want to take this opportunity to provide some general context and elements to consider when writing Tuareg-coded characters, or other characters from groups that have experienced colonization in the real world. My fellow mods will then share thoughts about cultural reconnection in general and with respect to Germanic heritage in particular.

Drawing inspiration from groups that have experienced colonization

As you’re probably aware, the Tuareg are an ethnic group indigenous to North Africa. As with many indigenous groups, they have experienced colonization multiple times over the course of their history. Colonization often leads to the loss or erasure of certain aspects of culture as the colonized people are pressured to conform to the culture of the dominant group. In many cases, it’s near impossible to say what the ancestral culture of a colonized group was prior to colonization.

When coding a fictional culture based on a group that was colonized in the real world, it's important to ask questions about:

Which aspects of culture you're portraying

Where these aspects come from

Whether you're ready to tackle their implications for the world you're building

It’s not necessarily wrong to use elements of coding that draw from cultural aspects influenced by colonization. As I said, it can be very difficult, even impossible, to portray a “pure” culture as it would have been had colonization not occurred–because we simply can’t know what that alternate history would look like, and because so much has been lost or intentionally suppressed that the gaps in our knowledge are too wide to breach. But it’s important to be aware of where these cultural elements are coming from.

Where is your coding coming from and what are the implications?

For example, while the Tuareg today are majoritarily Muslim, this was not the case prior to the Arab conquest of North Africa. Some elements of Tuareg culture today, such as tea ceremonies, are derived from the influence of Arab and Muslim culture and likely did not exist prior to the 20th century. As you’re developing the culture of the Tuareg-coded group in your fictional setting, you have to decide whether to include these elements. There is no right answer–it will depend on what you’re trying to do and why.

Is your setting in our far future, in which case we can assume your Tuareg-coded group is distantly related to today’s Tuareg?

In that case, they will probably have kept many cultural aspects their ancestors acquired through their interactions with other cultures around them–including cultural groups that colonized them. They may–let’s build hopeful worlds!–have reclaimed aspects of their ancestral culture they’d been forced to abandon due to colonization. They may also have acquired new aspects of culture over time. This can be very fun to explore if you have the time and space to do so.

I would recommend speaking with Tuareg people to get a better grasp of how they see their culture evolving over the next however many centuries or millennia, what they wish to see and what seems realistic to them.

Alternatively, maybe your setting is a secondary world unrelated to ours and you only want to draw inspiration from the real-world Tuareg, not represent them exactly. In that case, you need to decide which period of history you’re drawing from, as Tuareg culture is different today from what it was 50 years ago, and different still from 200 years ago or 1000 years ago. You’ll need to research the historical period you’re choosing in order to figure out what was happening at that time and what the cultural influences were. If it’s pre-colonial, you’ll probably want to avoid including cultural elements influenced by colonization from groups that arrived later on.

Finally, if the time period you’re drawing from is post-colonial:

Are you planning to account for the effects of colonization on Tuareg culture?

Will you have an in-world equivalent for the colonization that occurred in real life?

For example, will the Tuareg-coded characters in your world be from a nomadic culture that was forced to become sedentary over the years and lost much of their traditions due to colonial pressure to conform?

Where did this pressure come from in your world–is it different from what happened in ours? If so, how different? And what are the consequences?

Writing about colonization can be quite the baggage to bring into a fictional setting. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it will certainly require sensitivity and care in portraying it.

In summary: think it through

I’m not saying all this to discourage you, but to point out some of the considerations at play when drawing inspiration from a real-life culture that has experienced colonization. Similar challenges arise for coding based on any other indigenous group in the world.

My advice to you, then, is to first sit down and decide where and when in history your coding is coming from, and what you’re trying to achieve with it. This will help you figure out:

which elements of contemporary Tuareg culture are pertinent to include

How much your coding will be influenced by the Tuareg’s real-life history

To what extent that will inform the rest of the world you’re creating

This, in turn, may help in deciding how to portray your character’s reconnection journey.

Again, I am not Tuareg and this is by no means meant to be an exhaustive list of considerations for writing Tuareg-coded characters, only a few places to start.

If any Tuareg or Amazigh readers would like to chime in with suggestions of their own, please do. As always, please make sure your comments adhere to the WWC code of conduct.

- Niki

Pulling from diaspora and TRA narratives of cultural reconnection

Marika here: This ask plotline could also pull directly from diaspora and TRA narratives of cultural reconnection. Many diaspora and TRA cultural reconnection stories are, in effect, about navigating the difficult process of resuscitating, or renewing ties to culture using limited resources in environments that often lack necessary cultural infrastructure or scaffolding.

See this question here to the Japanese team for suggestions of how to handle such a storyline in a similar sci-fi setting.

More reading: Japanese-coded girl from future

-Marika

Reconnecting with German heritage

Hi, it’s Shira. I’m not sure whether German-Jewish counts as Germanic for the purposes of your post but since German Jews were more assimilated than other Ashkies, Germanness does feel real and relevant to my life (especially because my father worked there for approximately the last decade of his life.) NOTE: when I see “Germanic” vs German I think of cultures from 1500 years ago, not 100-200 years ago, so I can’t help you there, but I’d be surprised as a reader if a character focused on that for reconnection to the exclusion of the 19th century etc.

People in the United States specifically, reconnecting with German heritage, often lean into Bayerischer/Bavarian kitsch, I’ve noticed. Personally, though, what I find most relevant is:

1. The food (although I’ve come to learn that what I grew up eating was closer to veal/chicken scallopini than actual schnitzel because it was drenched in lemon, but I do like the other foods like the potato salad and sweet and sour red cabbage etc.) Your character could try making one of these “ancestral” foods as a way to reconnect?

2. The classical music, because I’m a second generation professional musician – if character C plays an instrument, leaning into that might be meaningful (Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Clara Schumann and her husband Robert, etc.)

3. The nature, especially specifics that I enjoyed during my time there – personally, I loved the bright pink flowers all over the chestnut trees, but there are a lot of choices especially because of the Alps. If C is an artist maybe they can sketch something Germany-related from old photographs they found on the Space Internet?

I think it is VERY realistic for the characters to remain connected to the culture in which they were raised, by the way, whether or not they have positive feelings about it. Culture isn’t an inherited trait. Sure, if they want to completely walk away, they can, but I bet there are still ways it will creep back in without them realizing it simply because it’s really hard to have universal knowledge of the origins of all our quirks. Plus, not everyone feels alienated from their raised-culture just because they’re genetically something else.

P.S. There is also Oktoberfest, which I don’t really get into but is a thing, and beer, which is another point of German cultural pride.

German gentiles, weigh in – y’all have your own stuff, I know! OH YEAH so for German Christians, Christmas “markets” are a whole thing. That’s worth looking up. 

–S

What do you mean by Germanic?

Hello it’s Sci! I had to study German history for my historical fantasy novel set in the late 18th century Holy Roman Empire. I am not sure what is meant by Germanic as that can encompass a variety of things.

Germanic people: from the Classical Period of Roman Empire and early Middle Ages. Similar to Mod Shira, I unfortunately can’t help very much here.

The Germanosphere: regions that spoke German, which includes modern day Germany, Austria/Hungary, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Belgium, and Luxembourg. I generally define this as the regions captured in the Hapsburg Empire along with Switzerland usually encompassing “Central Europe.”

Modern German national identity (i.e. German): post Napoleon and the Congress of Vienna (> 1815) only including the territory of modern day Germany.*

I ask this because modern German national identity is surprisingly recent since Germany only popped up in 1871 under Otto von Bismarck. Previously, Germany was divided into smaller states and city states as a very decentralized region under the German Confederation and before that, the Holy Roman Empire. Depending on the era, you can see different conflicts and divides. During the early days of the Protestant Reformation started by Martin Luther, the northern and southern German territories generally split along Protestant-Catholic lines. The 18th century saw Austria and Prussia as the foci of global power who warred against each other even though both were part of the Holy Roman Empire.

Other states and city-states like Baden-Wurttemberg or Saxony sometimes had power but it was typically more localized compared to Austria. Post-WW2, you saw the split of Germany into West Germany run under capitalism and East Germany run under communism as a satellite Soviet state leading to more modern cultural divides. Due to heavy decentralization historically, each region had its own character with religious and cultural divides. 

Assuming that the Germanic character is not from the classical period or early Middle Ages but not from the 19th century either, you can include your character reconnecting to classical folklore like that of Krampus (if they’re Christian), German literature and music like the works of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe or Mozart, or German philosophy like Immanuel Kant.

*A major wrinkle: German royals and nobility married into other states and nations frequently with Britain and Russia being notable examples. In Britain, the House of Hanover took over after the Stuart House died without clear direct heirs. When Queen Victoria married the German prince Albert, they celebrated Christmas with a tree and brought the German tradition of a Christmas tree to Britain and the British Empire. Only during World War I did the royal family’s house of Hanover name change from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to the more “English-sounding” Windsor. As a result, the German cultural influence may be even more widespread than we think.

However, without more specific descriptors of what Germanic means in the context of your story, it can be difficult to determine which aspects of German culture your character could reconnect to.

-Mod Sci

[jesncin]

hi, I just read your ask about the "true kal-el/clark kent" and your answer about now it's reductive to try and pin him into one box or another when in truth he'd surely have a nuanced and potentially complex relationship to these two facets of his identity. really interesting and well-said stuff!

further to that, how do you see the constructed persona of Superman: Man of Tomorrow fitting in with this question of identity?

I know that in some stories the costume is/is inspired by kryptonian garb and in others it's not really, and that in some stories he uses the superman persona as a public outlet to live as a man from krypton while in others he tries to hide that side of himself from the public (although usually not for long, like in sstk) and I'd be really interested to see your take on how the superhero dual identity can relate to the immigrant dual identity

Thank you!! I'm glad people enjoy my musings about Immigrant Superman, haha. And this is another fun question! There's a ton of versions with how Clark comes to terms with the persona of Superman all with varying levels of a different diaspora Superman reading- personally I am really fond of the SSTK version.

Some versions have it so Clark is bestowed the Kryptonian clothes and House of El symbol, but in SSTK Clark gets the idea to present Superman as The World's Strongest Strongman, inspired by circus performers' colorful costumes in a deliberate move to look less intimidating.

Then we have Ma Kent sewing Clark's Superman costume, translating the "othering alien symbol" into a "S in a funny diamond shape", letting people interpret the symbol to mean the "S" in Superman. What I love about this version is we get to see Clark very relatable-y fear alienation and xenophobia by attempting to present himself as the most palatable, model-minority American Man ever. He doesn't debut as Kal-El the alien, he debuts as Superman! The Strongest Super MAN on Earth.

If this kind of Immigrant Superman characterization were to continue, I see Clark's relationship to the Superman persona as his outlet to be the approximation of so many identities that he can't quite have all the way. In the beginning of SSTK, Superman was his attempt to be the human approximation of an alien. Afterwards, once he's formally come out as an alien immigrant and can more comfortably showcase and explore his alien powers, the Superman persona becomes his means of connecting to Kryptonian culture. He's not going to emulate being a Born and Raised Kryptonian perfectly, since he's adopted and came to his alien roots later in his life- but his "S" was also a humanized translation of an alien symbol. His costume is now how the only representation (before Supergirl) of an extinct culture. Would he be able to communicate in Kryptonese perfectly? I'd like to think he struggles with it, as many migrants do with learning languages later in life- especially on their own.

Couple all this with the fact "Superman" is the public persona while "Clark Kent and "Kal-El" are his secret identities, makes his journey of connecting to his roots all the more complicated. Because he's doing all that reclamation of an extinct culture while the world watches.

That's how I see it anyway! I feel Superman characterizations that aim to make him "more scifi starting out" and embrace the alien side of him ("make the suit more scifi and less circus strongman!") to be lackluster because they're not taking advantage of Clark being a step removed from Krypton. How Clark presents Superman, from his mannerisms, to the outfit, the anxieties around his alien identity, and which powers he chooses to showcase is an opportunity to tell a compelling story.

[roomba-mangga]

historians in my podcasts repeatedly asserting that medieval conceptions of childhood were vastly different in that teenagers as young as 14 were already given adult responsibilities (especially if they were royalty) if not considered legal adults depending on the time period and this is just feeding my headcanon that yaad and thistle don't see themselves as children

[whyeverr]

¡Ay, ay, ay, ay! Canta y no llores Porque cantando se alegran Cielito lindo, los corazones 🎶

[jeannereames]

Hi professor- If you believe that Alexandros and Hephaestion ceased or at least heavily restricted their sexual contact by the time they were in their mid-twenties, do you think it possible or plausible they continued other non-sexual romantic behaviours, e.g making out, holding hands, lying in bed together, or other forms of intimacy that might be uncommon in purely platonic friendships?

PS: I'm a huge fan- I'm from a country where Classics is mainly studied by men, and posh ones at that. My class of about 20 girls made up more than 5% of people studying Classics in second-level education in the whole country. It can feel like a bit of a dorky interest at times, so thank you for being so cool and talented and sharing your knowledge in such an accessible way.

First, thank you! My goal here is to make the past easier to grasp (and without specialized knowledge). Not sure where you live, but if it makes you feel any better, Classics has been male-dominated in most universities until relatively recently. I’ve no stats to back this up, but I believe, at least in Anglophone countries, women are better represented these days, although it’s far from good. See Sarah Bond’s excellent article on the problem of the “manel” in Classics/ancient history. It was written in 2016, and I do think we’ve made some headway, but leagues remain to go. I’ll just echo RBG when asked how many women would be enough on the Supreme Court. “When there are nine.” At least in Macedonian history, we have a fair number of women.

Affection between Alexander and Hephaistion

Now, to the question … I’m going to expand this a bit to talk about what I see as a common misconception regarding affectionate gestures among ancient Greeks (and Romans). This isn’t something the asker is implying, mind, but their question became a useful jumping off point, so indulge me.

Ancient (and modern!) Greek culture is, in general, highly demonstrative. That is, physical expressions of affection are normal, beyond opening or closing social interactions or when excited.

What do I mean by that? When two (or more) people meet or separate, friendly gestures are common: hello or goodbye kisses, hugs, handshakes…. These are socially approved exchanges. Likewise, in periods of heightened emotion, whether good or bad (celebrations, mourning, or frightening events), physical expressions are also expected and accepted: holding hands in solidarity, hugs, arms around shoulders, etc.

But outside these events, more emotionally closed cultures rarely or never share such gestures: hand-holding, an arm around another person, kisses, etc. except within certain social categories such as parents and children, romantic pairs, and occasionally siblings.

But more emotionally expressive cultures don’t have the same inhibitions. Thus, when those from a more emotionally closed culture observe members of an emotionally expressive culture, misunderstandings can ensue. This is one reason modern assertions that so-and-so historical person “must” have loved so-and-so romantically because—see!—they’re hugging/kissing/being affectionate or declaring their affection in public is extremely problematic because it’s CULTURE-BLIND. It imposes the assumptions of one culture onto another culture, which is not only ignorant but—frankly—arrogant as hell.

I just want to put that out there because it needs to be said. AND taken seriously, not just given lip-service.

So, when it comes to pairings in certain ancient cultures, to call two people a same-sex couple, we must have better evidence than some public kisses and hugs. Their cultural norms must be taken into consideration. I do this, of course, when looking at Hephaistion and Alexander. It’s why I’m cagey about making an absolute pronouncement. We simply can’t because we have no clear evidence that’s contemporary and without other historiographic problems. That said, the freight of circumstantial evidence suggests, to me, that they were lovers at least as youths.

So, with all that in mind, let’s return to the question about other romantic gestures persisting even if/after Alexander and Hephaistion had stopped being physical lovers. As the reader may have begun to suspect, the difficulty in judging is that such gestures wouldn’t necessarily be purely romantic for them anyway. The Greeks, then and now, simply engage in more gestures of affection between “just friends.”

So, I’m quite sure the two hugged, stood arm-in-arm, and gave kisses, and no one in their personal circle would have regarded that as romantic. If they’d been lovers when younger, such gestures were probably much easier and more frequent than if they hadn’t been, but they still wouldn’t have been taken as evidence that anything sexual was still going on between them—even while such gestures wouldn’t rule it out, either. The two simply didn’t have an automatic correlation. Just like, once upon a time, a woman and man speaking together in private without a chaperone was evidence of the two having an affair, whereas today, such an accusation would sound ridiculous. (Even while it also wouldn’t rule it out!)

A rather lengthy and round-about reply, but as noted, I wanted to use the query to remind folks about the different norms for interaction in ancient Greece and Macedonia.

[wardensantoineandevka]

📓

Send me 📓 or some other version of a book emoji, and I'll explain the plot of a fic that I haven't written but daydream about.

Though the griffons roost with the Wardens, Evka and Antoine decide that it is best to involve the Veil Jumpers in the training and care of the group. The arrangement allows for any griffons who don't take well to a role among the Wardens to easily transition into one at Arlathan Forest, and it speaks to the Wardens' own changing role as they look to a new future.

The establishment of this joint endeavor is perhaps the easiest thing that's happened for any of them in a while. However, for Antoine, the Warden overseeing the griffons and the liaison for the Order in all this, it comes with mixed feelings not for the griffons or this partnership but for himself.

It is strange to work with Eldrin and the Veil Jumpers in Arlathan Forest, the heart of the first elven homeland, as an elf from Orlais, the empire that crushed the second. Even stranger, it is, to be from the Dales itself and not be Dalish. He wonders if these griffons are becoming more elvish than he is.

Strife tells him that he was not born among the Dalish, that his life spent with them is much shorter than his life before that. Antoine chooses not to follow that sentiment to its natural conclusion. Really, it doesn't matter. He hasn't been Orlesian in just about as long, from the moment his lips touched that chalice.

He is simply a Warden—as will be some of these griffons one day.

Still, maybe he'd like to learn to speak elven and to tell elven stories.

[lena-cant]

I started replaying fire emblem: path of radiance earlier this week after recently really only playing modern (awakening onward) FE for the past 5 years and it's really hitting home for me how much of modern fe's script is taken up by useless minutiae. camp conversations in por are the thing really hitting it for me. In more recent fe games, there's a lot of little bits of dialogue in the between-level hub but it rarely ever adds to our understanding of a character or interact with the story. It's just there because the characters are in the hub and therefore they need a sentence or two to say to the protag.

meanwhile path of radiance has these wonderful little conversations in the camp. they're not all like, peak fiction or anything but they almost always deliver on short nuggets of story that let you know how specific characters are reacting to what's going on in the story, or otherwise just something about them. I can count on my hands the amount of moments in three houses and engage where characters outside of the "main cast" of those games actually react to story events but they're doing it left and right in path of radiance.

this, along with the fact that most characters only have 3-5 supports means that the characters all feel sharper, more present, and like they're a part of the story. I'm not gonna pretend that every character in por is a masterful study or anything but even the weak characters in por feel less annoying than some of the strongest characters in three houses or engage because they're just inserted into the world more elegantly.

so much of the dialogue in the newer games just feels superfluous by comparison. xander doesn't have checks notes 12 romantic supports because the devs/writers felt that he as a character needed that much fleshing out. he has them because they needed him to have that many girls to kiss for the eugenics mechanics to work! part of the reason why characters in the newer games feel significantly more one note in comparison is that they're stretched thin. there's so much pointless shit they have to say, decided by quota before the writers even got their hands on the characters and it all builds up into a weaker end product

anyway this has been one elitist whinging about the new games that I like less

[ambriel-angstwitch]

Merlin: I got you something that will make you happy. I call them "Opposite Tortures."

Arthur: You mean presents?

Merlin: Yes, that's better, thank you.

[blaithnne]

Johanna is technically a second generation immigrant and I think someone much smarter than me could do something with that