#certain shippers just started going off on others

[luceafarul-de-dimineata]

The nobles being wingmen for their kings

Gamigin would be the best wingman. The type of guy to prepare the most romantic dinner for you and Lucifer. He's the top Luci x MC shipper, he gets into ship wars with any other noble. He would love nothing more than to see his two favorite people being together. If at any point he learns how to fly, he will take you and Lucifer on a romantic fly (like in how to train your dragon).

Eligos would pretty you up for Mammon. He takes care of your clothing and makes sure you're all dolled up for Mammon. If you have an interest in clothing or costume design he will go shopping with you 24/7. He just wants you to feel good in Tartaros and to look your best. If you told him that you like a certain style of fashion, you'll start noticing Mammon wearing that style more often.

Ronové would tell you great stories about Asmodeus, but always leave out the ending. If you want to know how it ends, why not ask the legend himself. He would hype Asmodeus up everytime you two talk, and he'll make sure to make him seem as mysterious and appealing as possible. Would insist you come and visit Abaddon, at least for a day and you'll somehow arrive at Asmodeus' chambers. Have fun getting sore.

Amon is too tired and hungry to really think about his feelings for you in relation to Beelzebub. All he knows is that he adores Beelzebub and Beelzebub likes you, so he shall get you two together to please his king (and make him come back). He would talk your ear off about Beelzebub and you can swear he almost came on the spot while remebering their last encounter. Idk why, but I see him as the type to douse you in honey so the flys (aka Beelzebub) get more attracted to you.

Paimon has a fanpage for MC x Satan shipping content. Probably writes fanfics about you and Satan in his free time. He's the one that gets into shipping wars with Gamigin. He would take photos of you and Satan whenever he can. Like Eligos, he would also help you get dressed up better and help Satan out as well. His also there to kill any angels that may try to disturb you and Satan's date night.

[eclipseberrycake]

Two for One Special

AN: GUYS YOUR BRAINS ARE SO WRINKLED IM KISSING THEM ALL

This was also a request! So thank you Anon! I was doing some research (By the way, huge huge shoutout to @snowysyndrome and @sammylkcho both of y'all RND things had me just shaking in my seat bro) and yeah, y'all are starved.

I know my sister, who got me into the game, explained that shippers treat them like two different people so I'm assuming with both of them it's more like a poly! ship than anything else. Either way I'm excited to toy with this dynamic!

☁ Man introductions are so hard for me and idk whyy

☁ Like most times i just start writing and oops a plot pops out but i need an intro to get there and I just...never have one gnogng

☁ I think RnD would like either a healer toon or a extractor toon. Since they can distract on certain floors, they know the dangers of distracting and wouldn't wish that on their partner.

☁ Razzle and Dazzle both have very different love languages as well.

☁ I saw it mentioned that Razzle is a very affectionate toon, and yk what? I agree...to an extent. Here's my twist, lol, on them.

☁ I think Razzle is very open with his affections, announcing them for all the toons to see and hear. He's beaming with pride as he presents them with boxes of chocolates or maybe a bandage he bought when he noticed you didn't have enough tapes. He's shouting praises as he passes behind you, the twisteds on his tail even if you couldn't tell based on his giant grin.

☁ Razzle is a very "Words of affirmation" kind of toon, because it's something that he can do so everyone knows just how much he worships you! You are his spotlight, his main star. He just wants to treat you as wonderfully as you treat him and his brother. Is that so much to ask?

☁ SPEAKING of his brother, Dazzle. Oh Dazzle.

☁ I think he's just as affectionate as his brother personally! Being connected to someone who's as affectionate as Razzle kind of eases him into the whole thing and by the time you get together, he's well-versed in what kind of affection works for him and how he wishes to show affection.

☁ He's a huge physical touch person, imo, and an acts of service partner! When your in the elevator, it does not matter what Dazzle wants as it's his turn with the legs and he needs to be by you. Not that Dazzle is complaining of course.

☁ He's constantly by your side when he's not off distracting. You do machines together because having more eyes on the look out than not is crucial to him, plus when it's his turn with the brain cell, he's a fast extractor so you don't need to be in the line of fire more often than not.

☁ He has a good eye too, so if there's a valve or jumper cable on the floor like, half way across the map, he probably spotted the smallest bit of it, immediately redirecting himself, his brother and by extension you to go get it. It's immediately handed to you nonetheless, and he won't take no as an answer, literally going out of his way to pick up gumballs to fill up his inventory space, much to Dazzle's chagrin.

☁ But, Dazzle does need a little extra fawning over. He gets insecure in himself really and doubts whatever he thinks you see in him. Between you and his brother though, it never lasts long and he's always smiling your way soon after, trailing after you like a lost puppy.

☁ Both are absolute buffoons in love by the way. They literally trip over each other when seeing you pass by.

☁ The spend hours gushing with each other over a thing you said or did, despite the fact the other was right there.

☁ They don't get jealous either, unless it's from each other. Not in the toxic, weird way either. Like if you press a kiss to Razzle's cheeks because they swooped in and saved you from a twisted, Dazzle is immediately whining softly for one of his own, despite the giggles in the elevator.

☁ If you come up on Dazzle's side to hold his hand while walking to the other machine, Razzle is complaining loudly about the unfairness and is demanding dibs the next floor their distracting on.

☁ But my favorite thing about these two is they canonically don't fight and prefer to hear each other out. So needless to say, communication is huge with these two. They listen and they don't judge.

☁ And as Rodger points out, they have two contrasting opinions. So if you ever find yourself in a tizzy with another toon, these two are easy to talk to and offer several perspectives on the problem while helping you discuss how you yourself is feeling.

☁ One of their favorite things to do is to wrap themselves around your back and have their chins on each of your shoulder. So Dazzle on one side and Razzle on the other, keeping you trapped as they press a flurry of kisses to your cheeks, shoulders, temples, literally anywhere they can reach.

☁ Y'all gonna turn me into an RND simp with this damn, wish that was me.

☁ OH HEY- They are SUCH fun uncles by the way. I feel it in my bones. They don't have a canonical interaction with Toodles, but like, c'mon. They're so good with her, I KNOW it.

☁ Razzle is obviously the fun, exciting Uncle, using Toodles to tease you knowing you could never stay made at them. He'll pick her up and hang her over you so Toodles can toy with your cheeks and hair, pulling her up out of your reach when you try to retaliate.

☁ Dazzle is the calmer, rock of an uncle. The one Toodles goes too when she needs someone to talk to that isn't Rodger, or when the tension of her extended family gets to be too much.

☁ I imagine Dazzle is happiest when he's got you, his brother, and Toodles all nearby.

☁ I'm not saying imagine sitting on the couch, with Dazzle reading a story as Toodles falls asleep in his lap, you on Razzle's side as you play some game like cat's cradle or something, but I'm also not...not saying that.

☁ Seeing their twisted is...an experience for them.

☁ Lol you thought I'd forget about that bad boy? Not a chance.

☁ Every time they hear the rattles of it being awoken, a part of them positively shrivels at the aspect it could've been you caught, only to realize it was Sprout doing it for the Agro-tapes. Sprout's good about making sure everyone nearby knows he's doing it and keeping watch until the Twisted returns to it's slumber, so they know if nothing else, you're safe.

☁ But still, the aspect of you getting caught by it makes them uneasy, especially if they're distracting and can't get to you without risking everyone else.

☁ It's happened once before.

☁ There was a machine in the ring of vines, right near the twisted, and you had assured Brightney you could get it so that way in case Razzle and Dazzle distracted near there, she wouldn't be caught without a way to run out.

☁ That however left you in the line of fire instead, proven when Teagan, having been spotted by a twisted accidentally ran in the part of the circle hidden by a wall, waking up the twisted.

☁ It snapped too quick for you to react, catching your leg and tripping you just on the boundary of their reach.

☁ Even from across the map, Razzle and Dazzle could hear your cry of pain, immediately turning tail from where they were distracting a twisted clone of Poppy. Tisha was right there to pick up where he left off, quickly shouting at him to go and that Ginger was somewhere on that side too and could help.

☁ He shouted a thanks before taking off, immediately finding Ginger on the way. She had heard you too, ready to offer her assistance in anyway she could.

☁ They found you scrambling to get out of the boundary, Razzle and Dazzle quickly pulling you against them as their twisted form snarled, yanking against the weight holding them down. The image terrified them at the thought that any version of them could even think about hurting you.

☁ Between them, they shakily allowed Ginger to heal you, thanking her profusely before walking you back to elevator. Connie would take over the machine and that would be that.

☁ The run was ended soon after that, Razzle and Dazzle both taking you to Sprout And Cosmo as well to confirm you were alright. Both gave you a clean bill of health, along with Ginger doing so as well, finally easing their poor hearts.

☁ After that they would both need lots of love and extra affection that night to assure them that you are truly okay.

☁ But as I said previously for Razzle, both just want to make you as happy as you've made them.

[colorfulwastelandvoid]

In defense of MelJay

I just need to say this…SHUT UP! Yall are all tap dancing on my last nerve.I’m am at my wits end with this fandom. Every time I think we take one step forward some dufus pushes us two steps back.

Okay. I’m arguing with a JayVik shipper on TikTok who says MelJay is boring and toxic. I am about to explode this shit can’t still be the main conversation about this ship.

So first off MelJay is “boring”. This isn’t unique to JayVik nor is it the first time someone has said this about MelJay, but I always find it weird when people say certain ships are boring. The ships in question are usually just chill and communicative so there is no needless drama. This probably relates more to online fandoms’ obsession with romanticizing toxicity but I digress. It’s weird that the tension and political intrigue,something of which yall claim to love about the show overall, is in someway boring. The fact they are not constantly arguing or disregarding each other was nice cause I hate that those interactions are normalized in fandom in regard to romantic ships. If one of them had something to say then they would just say it and they would discuss it and move on like a normal couple. There is a lot to digest with them though as separate characters and as a couple. While Mel and Jayce are similar they obviously are not exactly alike. Mel it’s a lot more closed off and tempered and Jayce is more emotionally open and is hot headed. Both want to do good and have enough ambition to do so. It is their methods that differentiate them. Mel is more comfortable working behind the scenes whereas Jayce runs head first. These little differences offers up moments of character growth for both these characters. Mel started to become more aggressive (she was never docile) in her emotions and tactics where Jayce became more level headed.

The second one is that they are toxic. I’m going to keep this part short cause I already addressed this multiple times on this tumblr, so I’ll just bring up my highlights. Mel was not manipulating Jayce throughout their whole relationship. The only times where we see her manipulations is with Hoskel , but f him who cares about that man, and Jayce during progress day when they weren’t even together and Viktor wanted Jayce to do the same thing Mel was asking him to do. He didn’t even listen to her either. Mel and Jayce were genuinely attracted to one another so no she didn’t eventually fall for him she liked him from the first kiss. After a certain point we must recognize that Jayce was coming to Mel for advice and she gave it. Whether he listened to her or not. The investment line, an investment to Mel is not the same as investment to Jayce. An investment to Mel is like an action word. She invested in Hextech cause she genuinely believed in Jayce and Viktors ability to do good and she wanted to help similar to how a parent invest in their child, not because they think they’ll get something in return but because they love and believe in their kid. Jayce knows that, hence why he apologized for insinuating otherwise.

A lot of the so called toxicity the fandom claims they see is cause no one is meaningfully engaging with Mel or Jayce as characters but are just trying to get them to work in whatever ship they see fit.

Listen at the end of the day ship who you want but how you ship is gonna get your critiqued. For the love of anything that’s holy engage with the characters as their own separate entities. Your ships will thank you for it.

Ps I doubt this will be the last time some one will piss me off about Mel, Jayce or their relationship but I’m trying to keep this page more happy, for a lack of better words,so I’m trying not to rant to much. I got one more though. It’ll be way shorter though.

[synnamon-hearts]

I wonder if you have any hcs for poly! Climbing class x Reader like Josh and Chris are both fine asl and can't decide

𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭

Heyyy, this is interesting! I've never been a huge climbing class shipper but I once read a Josh x reader x Chirs fic and it stuck with me every since. 😂 So, with that, let's get started on these headcanons!

NSFW and a bit of a plot down below!

𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭

So let's say you have known Josh and Chris for quite some time and have always been so close to them. They are both super charming, goofy, loving, and also pretty cute. So of course you would gain a crush on both of them over time.

And like all these tropes go, Josh and Chris also end up falling down the little rabbit hole that is feelings for your good friend. Expectedly, this causes some issues between the boys. When you laugh at one of their jokes or look at one of them a certain way, the other gets jealous.

It isn't until one drunken night at a party does the truth come out, when Chris nearly clocks Josh for kissing you! Both the kiss and the small fight between the two was heavily unexpected and kind of scary. Once Mike and Matt broke up the fight, you pull Josh and Chris into a nearby bedroom to talk.

The boys finally confess their long-lasting feelings for you and as reluctant as you are, you confess your feelings for both of them as well. Thank God for the liquid courage you drank before coming in here! But this leaves a dilemma. What now? You would hate to just choose one and hurt the other. And how would you even choose? They are both so special for you.

After voicing your concerns to the boys, Josh and Chris begin to think for a solution in the few minutes of silence that follow your worrisome confessions. But then, seemingly at the same time, Josh and Chris both get an idea that makes them smile. After sharing a knowing look between each other, they give you a proposal. You could be their girlfriend.

The suggestion shocks you. A relationship with the two of them? Could end messy, but could also end up to be a beautiful thing. So with tears in your eyes, you accept their offer, sealing the deal with a kiss on both of their lips.

The thought of having your first time with the boys that night lingers, but it doesn't happen. No, you all agree that it is better to give each other a chance to adjust to this new lifestyle before making that big of a commitment. That comes 5 months later.

After many date nights of going to the movies, amusement parks, and other fun stuff, you and the boys decide that you are all finally ready for that special night you have all been anticipating. It takes place in Josh's bedroom, who has the biggest bed out of all three of you. It begins slow, a bit of making out with one while the other kisses your neck and feels you up, and then vice versa. This continues on until the clothes come off.

Chris is the shy one of the two, there is no doubt in that. But even a bit of insecurity glimmers in Josh's eyes when he reaches down to undo his belt. Not that either of them needed to be though. They both have amazing bodies, Josh having a bit more meat and muscle while Chris is a tiny bit skinnier but still so appealing to the eyes. They are both fairly average, Josh being a tiny bit longer by an inch and Chris being just a little more thicker. And oh man, when they finally enter you, it feels like heaven.

They are both careful not to hurt you, both taking turns while the other jacks off while watching to keep himself satisfied until his turn is up. It's definitely a special night to remember. Every time you are with them naked and in bed or even in a shower or a car, it feels so right and perfect. They love it when you lay on your back and take one of them down below while sucking the other off. It's such a hot sight for the two guys.

It doesn't take long for either of you to realize the love you all share for one another, and that's what makes this interesting relationship work so well. There are ups and downs but the ups are just so beautiful that the downs do not matter. The others may think you are crazy, and they are right; you are crazy in love with these two dorks that mean the world to you.

𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭~𖹭

[fallenrocket]

Some Random Galinda/Elphaba/Fiyero Thoughts

Note: This is mostly based on the musical, looking at the movie in particular--while I love the book, Fiyero is so different between the two versions that he needs to be viewed as two separate characters. Also, my shipping thoughts go hand in hand with my neurodivergent headcanons. For the purposes of this post, we have Elphaba (autistic,) Galinda (high-masking autistic/ADHD,) and Fiyero (ADHD.)

For as long as there have been love triangles and shipper wars, there have been fans who've pointed out the obvious solution of "So-and-So has two hands!" I've certainly seen the appeal of various OT3 ships in the past, but after watching Wicked: Part 1, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a love triangle as much in need of an OT3 resolution as Galinda/Elphaba/Fiyero.

Any way you look at it, it's clear that Elphaba is the apex of this triangle/polycule, so let's start there. The Elphaba/Galinda and Elphaba/Fiyero ships are both rock solid. Both have certain similarities, the popular hottie paired with the gorgeous outcast whose beauty can only be seen by them. But the road to how they get there in each case is a little different, so we'll take them one at a time.

Elphaba/Galinda

We have to talk about them first, obviously. That's why we're all here, right? The relationship so iconic, you can build a whole marketing campaign purely off the colors green and pink. These two have a classic love/hate setup, the old I Hate My Roommate, Oh No I Love Them! routine. But with both characters, it goes so deep. Being seen as a good person is crucial to Galinda's sense of self, and from the moment she meets Elphaba, who sees through her self-aggrandizing vow to use her not-yet-developed sorcery skills to "help" her, that sense of self is challenged. The image Galinda presents to the world is so carefully controlled and precise--her popularity is thanks in part to the fact that she's constantly performing "personhood" for those around her. But Elphaba immediately sees through her performance, calling her out in front of everybody.

That, I think, is at the heart of their early conflicts. It's not just that Galinda is pretty and popular and Elphaba is green and weird. It's that Elphaba has no issue pointing out that Galinda isn't what she pretends to be, and that rattles her. At the same time, it probably burns her up that Elphaba refuses to give in to what other people think about her, at least giving the impression that she doesn't care about their opinions. That isn't true, of course, as Galinda rightly recognizes at the Ozdust Ballroom.

When Galinda steps forward to dance with Elphaba, it's a revolutionary moment for her character. It's an unspoken acknowledgment that she had been cruel in giving Elphaba the hat, willingly admitting that she's not as "good" as she likes to think she is. But at the same time, this dance is the first truly kind thing Galinda does in the story. Like Elphaba, she hasn't stopped caring what people think about her, but for the first time, doing something right means more to her than just giving the appearance of it. So she stands with Elphaba among the stares and whispers, following her lead and doing her dance regardless of how it looks.

"Popular" is more than just a recompense, a genuine way to try and help Elphaba after tricking her earlier with the hat. Even as Galinda tries to make Elphaba more like her--ultimately giving up when she realizes how lovely Elphaba already is as herself--this is Galinda at her most unmasked, which actually makes her a little more like Elphaba. She is extra as hell throughout this whole song, delightfully goofy and hyper and excited. It's in stark contrast with Elphaba, who doesn't know what to think here, but this is who Galinda is when she's not performing for everyone around her. Elphaba is always 100% herself and never lets anyone take that away from her, and in "Popular," Galinda lets Elphaba see her.

When the break happens between them in "Defying Gravity," it has nothing to do with how they feel about each other. Their angry/frustrated accusations of "I hope you're happy" give way to their sad/wistful farewells of "I hope you're happy." Their essential breakdown is about, not who they are but how they are. Elphaba doesn't know how to go along to get along, even for the sake of playing a long game, so she immediately blows everything up with the Wizard and Madame Morrible because she knows how wrong this all is. She shows her hand without a second thought and is instantly prepared to throw everything else away for her ideals. Galinda, meanwhile, has spent her life being who other people expect her to be, and she doesn't really know how to give all that up--including her dreams of becoming a sorcerer and her chance for real power and influence--to take what feels like a shortsighted stand. Elphaba has no plan beyond "I won't do this" and "We have to get out," and as much as Galinda loves her, she's not ready or able to take that leap. They're both caught on diverging paths, reaching out for each other even as they're being pulled apart. Gaaaaah!!!

Elphaba/Fiyero

Even though Elphaba/Fiyero plays with similar archetypes and some similar themes as Elphaba/Galinda, their interactions and relationship are different, which is valuable. This isn't just a case where the canon M/F ship gets to "go there" while copying the F/F ship Because Compulsive Heterosexuality. I will say, the movie in particular gives me lots of Fiyero feels that I don't necessarily have with the stage show, so my thoughts on both Elphaba/Fiyero and Galinda/Fiyero rely heavily on Jonathan Bailey's interpretation of the character. In this version of the story, Fiyero does feel important to me, not just a shoehorned-in love interest for the sake of it.

Like Galinda, Fiyero is a character who masks/performs a lot. A key difference between them, I think, is that Fiyero has much more self-awareness about his. He knows what he's doing when he plays the role of the shallow party prince, essentially "giving the people what they want." But as hard as Galinda works to maintain the image she projects, I'm not sure if she entirely realizes that it isn't the real her. Both characters are trapped behind the masks they've made, but Fiyero definitely knows it, and I'm not sure if Galinda does.

At any rate, that's what we're working with when Fiyero meets Elphaba. In this instance, he clocks her before she clocks him--Fiyero easily defies her expectations when she rattles through her standard "no, I'm not seasick" list, and he immediately treats her like a person, something that not many people in her life do.

Elphaba quite can't see that at first, though. I don't know if she initially buys the performance Fiyero sells everyone else, but she's pointedly unimpressed by it. While everybody else is tripping over themselves falling for his charms in "Dancing Through Life," Elphaba huffs and rolls her eyes, even when Fiyero specifically meets her gaze in the middle of the number and gives her a little "hey, I know you!" wave.

So even though we get a bit of a love/hate trajectory again, it's not mutual this time. Fiyero is intrigued by Elphaba from the start, though not particularly because of her greenness--rather, he finds it interesting that she's immune to his charm. He likes that she speaks her mind and causes "commotion," and post-"Popular," he tells her she doesn't need to change herself. The unspoken implication? He likes who she already is. Elphaba is the one who holds back here.

It's not clear exactly where and how the change happens for her. Obviously, the rescue of the Lion cub marks the moment where Elphaba realizes her feelings for Fiyero, voiced in "I'm Not that Girl." But her opinion--and understanding--of him had already shifted. As he points out, some part of her chooses not to knock him out with the poppy spell, recognizing him as a potential ally to help the Lion. And it's in that scene where she acknowledges that he just pretends to be shallow and self-absorbed, adding that he's unhappy within that performance. So she's already made those observations about him. But when did it happen? For me, that's the part I'm not seeing on the screen, and it's an interesting question to wonder what causes Elphaba to reevaluate Fiyero in the first place.

With both Galinda and Fiyero, I think it's important to note that loving Elphaba doesn't change who they fundamentally are. This isn't character growth via The Love of a Good Woman. Both of them already are the people Elphaba comes to know and love, but the parts of them that she values are the parts that they tend to hide. Loving Elphaba makes them want to let themselves be seen, at least by her. By the end of the movie, Fiyero's feelings about how he wants to show himself are already changing, while Galinda is torn, breaking her own heart as she's dragged back into other people's expectations.

Galinda/Fiyero

Mileage on this one varies, I know. Plenty of fans will argue that this "triangle" really only has two sides, that it's Elphaba/Galinda and Elphaba/Fiyero. That Galinda/Fiyero is purely fake performative comphet. If that's your interpretation, that's cool.

For me, though, I do think there are real feelings there, on both sides. Galinda lamenting, "I don't even think he's perfect anymore, and I still want him!" feels major for her character, and I see Fiyero's care in how gently he responds when Galinda is knocked out by the poppies. And it's just more interesting to me if they both care about each other. I'm not saying their feelings for each other are the same as what they feel for Elphaba, or as intense. But in a hypothetical OT3 resolution for this story, I think their relationship would add up to more than just passing each other coming and going from Elphaba's bedroom.

I find Galinda/Fiyero very interesting because, even though they're the only "official" couple within the triangle by the end of the movie, there's far more potential in what their relationship could be than what it actually is at this point. In an OT3 scenario, I feel like their dynamic requires the most speculation or imagination. It's very clear what Elphaba/Galinda or Elphaba/Fiyero would be like romantically. But what would Galinda/Fiyero be to each other?

The way I see it, their canon relationship is hampered by two chief points: masking and outside expectations of monogamy.

Because both of them are performing most of the time, that extends to their relationship. Fiyero and Galinda start dating because each is very much The Sort of Person I'm Supposed to Date. When they flirt with each other, it feels like you're watching a play, two master performers "yes and-ing" their way through a relationship that's far more about the image they want to present than what they themselves really want.

Again, they're both drawn to Elphaba in part because she sees them for who they are and makes them want to be who they are. Fiyero's mask makes him actively unhappy, and at minimum, Galinda's puts her under a lot of pressure to maintain it and forces her into heartwrenching choices. So as they date one another--largely because other people expect it of them, because they're "perfect together"--their relationship is tied up in this thing that brings them misery and stress.

Furthermore, they're not really dating one another, they're dating one another's masks. We know that the real Galinda and the real Fiyero are both great--Elphaba wouldn't like them if they weren't! But in in their relationship, they don't really get to see the parts of each other that Elphaba loves.

That brings me to their other main hindrance. If Galinda and Fiyero are artificially forced into monogamy, then of course it's not gonna happen for them. They're just not it. Neither of them would choose the other over Elphaba, and if only one of them can be with her, than one person's happily-ever-after is the other one's loss.

In that way, I think a real Galinda/Fiyero relationship could only be possible inside an OT3. If both of them were free to date Elphaba, free to love and be loved by her, that could give them space to love each other, in whatever form that would take. Maybe it'd be romantic, maybe not (Lesbian!Galinda truthers, I see you!)--maybe they'd both have a romantic/sexual relationship with Elphaba and be platonic partners for each other. I'm not sure. But I do think they genuinely care about each other, and I think they'd be able to figure out what that looks like for them if they were both comfortable and secure in their relationship with Elphaba. If they didn't 1) feel forced to compete for her or 2) feel that, not being with her, they were one another's "consolation prize." And since I also think being with Elphaba would help them both feel more comfortable in dropping their masks and being their authentic selves, they'd have a much better opportunities to actually get to know one another.

[adh-james-version]

Why have I been seeing so much Regulus, Barty, Evan, and Jegulus hate? And hate on every James ship that ISNT jily?

To all the older people in the fandom that are hating on the new ships, and characterization: This is NOT the same fandom it was 10 or so years ago!!

#1 - Fandoms evolve!

Everything you don’t like isn’t racist, everything you don’t like isn’t facsist, everything you don’t like isn’t fetishizing, everything you don’t like isn’t misogynistic, everything you don’t like isn’t destroying the fandom, shipping James with someone else isn’t anti-Lily, personality head cannons that don’t perfectly align with yours aren’t gonna bring the fandom to its knees.

Every fandom changes as people leave, join, create, write, draw, etc. So when I started seeing people hate so extremely on certain characters, ships, and headcanons, to the point that they are willing to tell someone to off themselves and/or call people stupid/racist/facsist ect. It took me by surprise because not likening something and talking about it or keeping it to yourself is different than telling someone they are misogynistic for liking a mlm James ship over Jily.

#2 - Hypocrisy Regarding Deatheaters

One thing that I see a lot of is people hating on is the fact that canonical deatheaters like Regulus, Evan, and Barty got revamped or “babygirled”. My first point here is that the same people who believe that are also Pro-Snape. While there is nothing wrong with being Pro-Snape, you can’t be Pro-Snape but Anti-Regulus. Both of them defected from the death eaters! They both laid down their lives to try and help! Even if the impact wasn’t the same the want to be on the right side was. You can definitely not like the personality that a lot of the fandom has given him, but you can’t hate him merely on principle without kinda looking like a hypocrite.

Now onto Evan and Barty: yes they were terrible adults and did horrible things, BUT, we don’t know them as school students. That’s why the fandom took them and fleshed them out how they wanted to, they were a virtually blank slate. That’s why many people like the headcanon of them being forced by their families into getting the mark. We don’t know what truly happened so we took some artistic liberties. Again the same sentiment about Snape from earlier can apply: you can’t hate Evan and Barty on principle when in canon (because most people making this argument care religiously about canon) Snape took the dark mark willingly and again canonically we don’t know why Barty and Evan took the mark.

#3 - The Whole Jily Thing

Okay, look. Liking a James ship that’s not Jily, not a big deal. Liking Jily and not liking other James ships, not a big deal. Not liking any of the James ships, not a big deal. Liking some, one, or none of the first two options, not a big deal. Calling someone misogynistic for liking Jegulus or any other James mlm ship, however, is odd. Saying all people fetishize mlm just because they like an mlm James ship over Jily, is odd. That’s the equivalent of someone who ships Jily over an mlm James ship being called homophobic.

This really ties back to points 1 and 2, the fandom evolved and more ships were added. And calling someone a misogynist for not shipping Jily but shipping Jegulus or another mlm ship when in reality they could be the biggest feminist on the planet but just not a Jily shipper.

#4 - Personally

They’re ships, characters, and headcanons that I really don’t like/hate but you don’t see me saying that the ship is going to end the fandom or that it is fetishizing the characters?

For example, I don’t like Snape (as a person, no knock to his his accomplishments) AT ALL, but I don’t think the people who do are racist! I don’t really like the trans ftm Remus headcannon, but I don’t think all the people who do are fetishizing the trans community. I like the Mary x Pandora x Lily ship but I don’t think the people who don’t are anti polyamory!

#5 - Conclusion

Older members of the fandom and people who have been in the fandom a long time really need to calm down a little bit.

And for the people who say things along the lines of “what about canon” and “it can’t severely affect canon”

The EXISTENCE of this fandom goes against canon! You ship wolfstar and nobleflower but you “care about canon”?!?

Okay that’s it.

[rosemariad]

THE BITTER END | SPN 15x18 DESPAIR: About that Destiel moment in 15x18

Oh boy…the scene that sailed a thousand memes (and counting)…the scene that made us all go feral in the midst of a contentious presidential elections in one of the most disruptive, chaotic years in recent memory (2020 you son of a bitch)

Now i am super late with this since it’s nearly been 4 years since this was aired live on TV and posted like crazy all over the internet BUT…y’all Destiel shippers got robbed. Not just with this scene but the whole Destiel ship in general - just done so dirty.

I started watching this show on and off back in 2021 and I finally got to finish over the summer this year (2024) taking my sweet time, even rewatching certain episodes (for some fanfic writing 😁). I went into this to settle the debate for myself - is this Destiel stuff legit? Or was it taken out of context? Misconstrued.

No. It really wasn’t. They (the powers behind SPN) tried it, tried to pull the wool over people’s heads, with certain fans chiming in (the destiel haters, the homophobes, the anti-mishas, etc.) but no. The SPN showrunners fucked all this up.

From the beginning….

So it’s 15x18 despair - we’re in the last act - shit’s popping off, everything’s going tits up - Billie is trying to hunt Dean down, calling him chaos incarnate. Dean & Cas get trapped in a room with no apparent means of escape or defense - probably should’ve headed for the exit - but I guess since it’s the 3rd to last episode and the execs clearly want things to go back to the status quo 🙄 now’s as good a time as any to cash in on that plot thread from last season and kill Castiel once and for all 😭 (as 1 person pointed out, given the prior context they probably could've just waited Billie out, since them being trapped in that room - Cas was the one that blocked the door anyhow - but I get it SPN showrunners you wanted to get rid of Cas somehow - what a mess)

If you haven’t watched it - here’s where I gasp and scoff in disbelief - please watch it https://youtu.be/l_r9GZeQl1w?si=uVox8PlXByYEYKci

Basically Cas tells Dean he’s the greatest guy he’s ever known, that he fights for love and that Cas lurves Dean 😭 and he’s not the bad things enemies say Dean is. That he’s more than the worst parts of himself - oh Cas.

This was Castiel’s one moment of true happiness - telling the one person whom he adores more than anyone or anything else in the entire universe - that he is loved by Castiel himself.

The confession that triggers Castiel’s demise to go with the empty, takes Billie with him and before Dean can process the massive TRUTH BOMB Castiel just dumped on him, Castiel is gone.

Despair indeed.

They made too many fucking cuts to this scene, at least for Jensen’s coverage. Like if you don’t want Dean to reciprocate…fine. Don’t. But let him fucking respond! Let him use his words. Castiel just told Dean he was in love with him, that is one of the BIGGEST things you can say to somebody in your life. EVER. Especially on TV. And yes it was in love, like romantically. Not platonically because why make such a fucking fuss over fucking platonic friendship! There’s always been a tension between these 2 characters, it hung over between them since season 4. They just made it into a joke, never expecting to get the traction it did over the years. They even tried writing Cas off the show for good back in season 7. But they got stuck with Cas and never really made proper use of him. They literally just waited until the last minute to get rid of him in a way that couldn’t get the show cancelled until that decision had already been made by the network. to make things worse - COVID happened

So don’t tell me the confession doesn’t merit a response, either for or against on Dean’s part - whether he returns Castiel’s affection or not is another story but dammit let Dean speak! How could you not? Cowards!

And Would it be so terrible if Dean did feel something MORE than friendship for the only other individual that has stood by him for so many years? Like really? A relationship doesn’t demand sex (but let’s be honest, Cas probably wanted to fuck the shit outta Dean 🤣) it’s whatever the people in the relationship want! Dean isn’t young by the time s15 rolls around. Older people tend to just want someone to come home to, settle down with. Companionship. Cas fits that to a fucking T. When Dean dreamed of a future, Cas was right there with him (and Sam, cuz Dean always wants his family close as much as he can, given how he grew up).

Couldn’t find a gif of Dean talking about taking some time off after all the craziness of the hunting they do but I’m not crazy I know he wanted it.

The team behind SPN could have finished Dean’s narrative beautifully as man who was driven by fear all his life and opens himself up to a relationship he never saw coming but when the time came he didn’t run because he grew to love more than fear (and choose to live a life of peace after stuck in one of violence for so many years).

This is why Hollywood is shit! Great beginnings, shitty endings. But in this case, it was because they consistently chose NOT to indulge in queer-like narratives with enough care (aside from some other problematic stuff like the treatment towards women being more negative than positive, the inconsistent writing for characters and plot, etc.)

BUT not when it’s the main character 😡 Charlie can be gay AF but not Dean, seriously? That’s fucked. Like at least let him fucking explore/consider it. So people stop watching it who gives AF?! I never even watched the show when it was on air for 15 years, tons of people didn’t. There are still people out there watching SPN for the first time today! People who started but stopped because it’s a show that ran WAAAY longer than any other normally does.

Idk who made it so that Dean couldn’t explore his sexuality or fucked up the Destiel of it all but they SUUUUUUUUCK! You really shat the bed! at least explore it cuz at the end of the day, it may not work out. Gay relationships aren’t that different from straight relationships in that sometimes it just doesn’t work out BECAUSE we’re ALL people. And who knows maybe they could’ve been happy but we’re not allowed to know that canonically because Destiel was never given a CHANCE!

I mean if it was REALLY that big a deal – why introduce it? By making these little suggestions that (in a way that's funny but why would Dean be queer be haha funny - no that's not okay, queerness shouldn't be a joke) furthermore we’re talking about a show on basic cable - all it would’ve taken was fucking hand-holding or the same routine of staring into each other’s eyes like they’d been doing for 12 fucking years already! Just not shying away from the queerness that time. Legend of Korra did it. That 1 Disney show did it (i don’t remember the name). No kissing would’ve been necessary - nice, wishful thinking but not necessary if the kissing became an issue (but seriously it was 2020 man but ofc - that is a year where a pandemic that required social distancing decided to kick in during the final arc of this show) - just so we’re all clear COVID cock blocked Destiel lol jk 🤣

All those times they had Dean & Cas stare into each other's eyes – the forces at work – showrunners, writers, directors AND editors & the network who is showing this to audiences – if its such a big fucking deal - Don't leave it in. By leaving it in, you're allowing people to make assumptions about the relationship – it happens literally every time in every story ever told. You put 2 people in a scene and they're not family (though not always the case) or JUST friends (explicitly proven) there's a chance SOMEONE is gonna wanna ship them no matter how likely it is (OR NOT) they'll hookup or become a couple. That's just how it is. So don't fan the flames and then turn it around on fans that they're wrong, crazy or misinterpreting. If Wincest can exist, so can Destiel and any other ship. That being said, y’all Destiel shippers were ROBBED but I don’t need to tell you that.

I don’t think the relationship would’ve been perfect or smooth sailing - their friendship as it was on the show sure wasn’t. And Dean wasn’t the only one with issues - Cas had some bad qualities too - the angel liked to lie and for a while there he was extremely averse to conflict. And Dean…he gets real fucking angry 😬 not a good mix for a relationship- hell even a friendship.

But the two had a profound bond, with a great deal of affection for one another and that’s what got them through betrayal, fights, amnesia, curses, apocalypses, and all the ugliness in between. They could’ve made it. Or they could’ve just had Cas and Dean stay friends - but we’ll never know since Cas was pretty much omitted after 15x18 - there were references - like only 2 though 😒

Really SPN? 😒😔 so lazy. But sure, go ahead, blame COVID. It’s not like phones exist. It’s not like the actor couldn’t have just recorded Castiel’s voice nope. Totally not an option 🤦🏾‍♀️ same goes for the other characters - Jody, Donna, Eileen - you know all the other characters Sam & Dean cared about but sure - fuck ‘em too. Status quo is the only thing that matters - SMH.

[babybells123]

Regarding the original outline + some thoughts on Jon & Sansa… 

This is a long one. Buckle up.

If there is one thing I have picked up on in the ASOIAF fandom, it’s the knee-jerk negative reaction towards any theory/parallel/connection between Jon and Sansa. This was exacerbated by the show, of course but even now - five years later, there is an insane amount of vitriol that my brain is unable to comprehend. And here’s the rub; the infamous 1993 outline is the irony of it all. 

In a fandom that is a-okay with *certain* incest ships (r.e D@enerys x Jon, D@emon x Rh@enyra, Jon x Aria), as well as blatantly pedophilic ships (Sansa x S@ndor, Sansa x Littlefinger, Sansa x Tyrio*), how is Jon x Sansa the worst of them all? I’m going to pin it down to audience engagement with the show, particularly around the later seasons when Jon + Sansa reunite and people began to ‘ship’ them. So many believe that is how the ship took off, and thus it is mere crack - but there are posts tracking back to 2012/2013 theorising the possibility of Jon x Sansa. Was it spurred by the show? Certainly! But it does not take away from the fact that people were making valid arguments and essays before the general fandom was even comprehending a Jon and Sansa reunion on screen. And people were open to discussing/debating it with general civility (a far cry from today). 

I’m 90% certain people weren’t criticising those who began to believe in Jon x Aria when the outline was leaked…(though there were most definitely shippers before). But we never see the same level of vitriol towards Jon x Aria shippers, which is strange. 

In any case, let’s talk about said outline, some of the key points - and how I believe GRRM made the switch from Jon x Aria to Jon x Sansa. I’ll be drawing from GRRM’s past works, interviews, art, and his personal life - as well as other potential literary influences. I'll be linking metas along the way, but without further ado - let's go.

In October 1993, GRRM wrote a pitch outline for a publishing company. It was three pages long and conveyed alongside the first thirteen chapters of AGOT (170 pages). The three paged letter was leaked on twitter in February 2014, though there were multiple aspects parts blacked out. Keep in mind though, this may not be the *only* outline that exists. There are multiple outlines that have never been publicly released (and will likely remain that way). 

But let’s just focus on the 1993 outline, since we’re privy to the details. The thirteen chapters attached to the outline did *not* yet have a Sansa POV, and that’s because in this outline, she wasn’t listed as a key character.

The key characters were; Bran, Jon, Tyrion, D@enerys, and Aria.  

The first thirteen chapters were; Prologue; Bran I, Catelyn I, D@enerys I, Eddard I, Jon I, Catelyn II, Aria I, Bran II, Tyrion I, Jon II, D@enerys II, Eddard II, Tyrion II. 

I’ve seen people claim that Sansa isn’t an important character since she wasn’t listed as a key character, but they conveniently leave out the fact that a) her chapters were not yet written, b)she was given an entirely different more passive storyline in this outline, c) she dies, d) this was far far before GRRM fleshed out his characters entirely - Sansa took on a life of her own and she became her own solid complex character with an arc in 4 out of 5 of the books; 25 chapters. 

In fact, since the books have been published GRRM has regarded Sansa and the Starks as a main character as well;

Collider: In creating this world, did you start out with one family and then branch off into the rest of the world?

GRRM: Well, the Starks are certainly the centre of the story, when it begins. It all begins at Winterfell, with occasional cuts to Daenerys across the ocean, because there was no way I could get her into Winterfell. But, we bring all the characters together at Winterfell, and they’re all there for a while before they start to go their separate ways ... .But, the Starks are the centre of the book and, to a lesser extent, the Lannisters. They are still the major players. 

Collider: When you went into this, did you intentionally take the children, put them in an adult setting and force them to be in very adult and complex situations?

GRRM: Yeah, the children were always at the heart of this. The Stark children, in particular, were always very central. Bran is the first viewpoint character that we meet, and then we meet Jon and Sansa and Arya and the rest of them. It was always my intention to do that.” 

Collider report.

May 2016 - Balticon. 

(…) George said he was “pissed” that the outline was posted in the office building and that someone took photos and shared them. He said it was a letter for him and the publisher only. He was very firm when telling this and it showed on his face.

He then said that he is not good with writing outlines, making book deadlines, and that often in outlines he was “making shit up”, and “characters changed along the way”.

He went straight from talking about the references in the actual books, to the “differences” in the outline from then to now. He did say that he still knows who sits the iron throne and the end game of the main 5, but also included Sansa, but did not give any details (for obvious reasons).

[question if he is still going with the 1991 ending]

“Yes, I mean, I did partly joke when I said I don’t know where I was going. I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters. 

….

“So a lot of the minor characters I’m still discovering along the way. But the mains-”

[question if he knows Arya’s and Jon’s fates]

“Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sansa, you know, all of the Stark kids, and the major Lannisters, yeah.”

Balticon report:

“Ah, how innocent I was… little did that guy in the picture imagine that he would be spending most of the next two decades in the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros with Tyrion, Daenerys, Arya, Sansa, Jon Snow, Bran, and all the rest.”

GRRM's live journal:

So Sansa has clearly developed into an important character from GRRM’s words, and the key-characters argument can cease, because It’s very tiring to dispel that when the characters and story took on a life of its own. (I mean, Jaime was meant to remain a villain, but he was clearly given somewhat of a redemption arc in the main series).

I paraphrased what was written here for this whole section, so go check out the longer post!

The Aria in the original outline: 

*NOTE: I am blacking out her actual names in case the wrong people find this post. None of this anti her, please keep that in mind.*

Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, [...] The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, D@enerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Aria, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. 

Joffrey will not be sympathetic and Ned [what appears to say] will be accused of treason, but before he is taken he will help his wife and his daughter Aria escape back to Winterfell.

Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Aria, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.

When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Aria. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Benjen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran. 

Aria will be more forgiving ... until she realises, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Aria throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.

Abandoned by the Night's Watch, Catelyn and her children will find their only hope of safety lies even further north, beyond the Wall, where they fall into the hands of Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall, and get a dreadful glimpse of the inhuman others as they attack the wilding encampment. Bran's magic, Aria's sword Needle, and the savagery of their direwolves will help them survive, but their mother Catelyn will die at the hands of the others.

Exiled, Tyrion will change sides, making common cause with the surviving Starks to bring his brother down, and falling helplessly in love with Aria Stark while he's at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow

Observations:

Exactly how old is Aria? Is she a warrior princess who cries at songs like her aunt? Does she enjoy/yearn for romance? Is she a stunningly beautiful maiden rivalling that of Cersei? How close were she and Jon? Did they have a good sibling relationship? Or were they distant? Does she look physically different to Jon? Does she have red hair? 

The Sansa of the Original Outline:

‘Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue.’ 

Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Aria, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.

Jaime Lannister will follow Joffrey on the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, by the simple expedient of killing everyone ahead of him in the line of succession and blaming his brother Tyrion for the murders. 

More observations:

How old is Sansa? Is she 16? 17? She’s conveyed as a less important character in this outline - why? Queen of the Seven Kingdoms? She dies? Jaime kills her? What is her relationship with Aria like? Are/were they close? Or was Sansa initially meant to be a two-tone villain who betrayed her family? Is she overwhelmingly beautiful? Or is she the plainer sister? 

It’s quite clear that both ASOIAF Aria and ASOIAF Sansa are entirely different characters to their outlined counterparts. 

In the outline, Tyrion sacks and burns Winterfell. In ASOIAF, It’s Theon and later Ramsay who does this. In the outline, it’s Bran, Aria, and Catelyn who go beyond the Wall. In ASOIAF, it’s Bran, Meera, and Jojen (and Hodor). There are a couple of other changes made here, but there seems a pattern where certain acts *still* occur in the main series, they’re just given to different characters (which makes sense, as GRRM grows organically with his characters.)

So, when we take into account the fact of ASOIAF Sansa being considered a main/key character, her marriage to Tyrion, and the possibility of her being the first to reunite with Jon - perhaps GRRM did keep a Stark x Snow romance - but gave it to a different sister. 

In the 2016 Balticon report, GRRM stated he wished that ‘some past things didn’t have such strong foreshadowing and that newer things had stronger foreshadowing.’ You can make a case for J0nrya foreshadowing in the first book, but I’d argue that ACOK/ASOS is where the Jon/Sansa clues and foreshadowing is rife. (and there are certainly Jon/Sansa clues in the first book as well.) 

Now to circle back. The Aria of this outline doesn’t have a personality - none of the characters do, really. We don’t know how old she is. Is she a teenager? Is she close in age to Jon? We know she has her needle, so can infer she is a fighter and spirited, but is there a soft romantic side to her? Does she cry at songs like her aunt Lyanna? Does she yearn for love? Is she immensely beautiful? For a narrative like this? It'd be likely if Jon and Tyrion are fighting to the death over her, sort of like gallant knights fighting each other to win the heart of a fair maiden (very romantic and idealistic, mirroring the songs and the stories).

(This is how I am certainly inferring such a scene would have gone).

The ASOIAF Aria we know and love took on a life of her own. She’s described as plain looking (some envision her to be more beautiful than characters like D@ny, Cersei, and Sansa though). - But just quickly on that matter, Aria is indeed compared to Lyanna in looks and spirit, though Lyanna’s beauty was described as wild and implied as non-conventional; different perspectives have different opinions on her. For example, Cersei, Jaime, Devan, the Maester who wrote the WOIAF don’t consider her anything special. Whereas Ned, Robert, and Rhaegar do. So it’s one of those instances where you aren’t exactly sure. In any case, Aria's looks aren't a driving factor in her arc, and I don’t see ASOIAF Tyrion (as creepy as he is) suddenly falling in love with her due to mere attraction because presently, Aria is all knobbly knees and elbows, stick thin, a child, not a maiden, who will still be a pre-teen at the end of the series, if there is no massive time jump.

SHE'S JUST A BABY.

But then, Tyrion did lust after Sansa, so there’s that… however ….

Sansa’s beauty is a driving force in her narrative arc. She is objectified for her beauty. Preyed upon because of her beauty; in many ways it causes her to suffer. It’s largely why LF is grossly infatuated with her - she’s beautiful like Catelyn. Tyrion is attracted to Sansa and wishes to bed her, the H0und intends to rape her during the Blackwater battle, he also comments on her breasts growing, Joffrey sexually humiliates her in court, Ser Dontos has a pervy infatuation with her, Cersei despises Sansa because she is younger, more beautiful etc which she views as a threat.

So, beauty is pertinent to Sansa’s narrative, and it isn’t vain or shallow to say so because it’s a large part as to why she suffers. And her physical beauty is meant to compliment her indulgence in romantic idealism; knights, chivalry, courtly love, beautiful appearances thus equating to good people. It also contributes to perceptions of Sansa; nothing more than a pretty, stupid girl with naive dreams. 

So back to ASOIAF Aria: Her arc largely surrounds nature & nature, mercy, war trauma and survival, friendship, belonging, and family. For the majority of the story, she is a traumatised 10 year old travelling through a war torn country, witness to awful horrors, forced to assume multiple identities, until she goes to Braavos and begins her faceless man arc. But this is obviously not her endgame - she is going to go home eventually, that is quite clear.

You can argue she had a little crush on Gendry (as a 10 year old would) (and perhaps something may happen with him when she is older, I think GRRM has played with it.) But other than that, romance is not a central part of Aria's arc insofar. For outline Aria it was, but current ASOIAF Aria is on a completely different tangent all together.

(and that poor poor child is suffering immensely while this is all occurring).  Currently, she has no time for/interest in it. She hasn’t been involved in betrothals/marriages, or had men lusting after her (save ‘Mercy’ and people men making brutalising sexual comments towards her). She disguises herself as a boy for a good chunk of the story as it is safer to travel.

No, I’m not trying to reduce any sexual trauma/objectification she suffers, she’s a little girl for heaven’s sake - I’m merely stating that what she is going through is in some ways similar and different to what Sansa is going through. (Who currently is in a in a very Lolita type situation with LF and men sexually intimidating/abusing her has been a key part of her arc - as I said, she suffers significantly due to her beauty. She is something to possess, she isn't real or tangible, she is a beautiful maid with a vast claim to the North.)

Anyway, ASOIAF Aria finds songs and romance ‘stupid.’ 

“Sansa would have shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid.” (Arya VIII ASOS) 

 (but that doesn’t mean she won’t encounter it later in life, it just means that at this point of the story, she isn’t interested/likely won't encounter some epic grand romance that outline Aria was likely destined for. (And she’s 11 for god’s sake!).

‘But Sansa was dreaming of love at that age!’

Sansa has been a romantic idealistic dreamer since she was a little girl. She adored those stories and is the literal embodiment of the mediaeval pre-raphaelite maiden depicted in art. It’s central to her story arc, to her qualities, and how she functions/copes with things around her. “Life is not a song.” Is so fundamental to that.

So to reiterate ASOIAF Aria is a completely different character to outline Aria- for all we know OG Aria was 15 years old, very beautiful to the point of men duelling over her, (just as depicted in art above) likely a romantic heroine, had consistent memory lapses that would cause her to “realise in terror, she had fallen for Jon,” and based off of GRRM’s past works - was probably a redhead. 

“But OG Aria has a sword named needle!”

Indeed, but as I stated, we don’t know anything else about her beyond that. Many have theorised that D@ny and Jon are the epic romance of the series, but it’s clear from this particular outline that GRRM intended for it to be Aria and Jon as the epic major romance of the series. That would mean Aria would have to be a somewhat romantically-inclined character, for this development to appear natural and not forced. Based on her current ASOIAF arc, it doesn’t track for her character to make a sudden 180. Her softness and vulnerable moments come from thinking of her family and home. Insofar, this isn’t equated to yearning for love, romance, children, as Sansa has done from the beginning of the series.

Now, we know GRRM is a self-proclaimed romantic, and ASOIAF Sansa exists very much as a deconstruction of romanticism. 

“He said he is a romantic, in the classical sense. He said the trouble with being a romantic is that from a very early age you keep having your face smashed into the harshness of reality. That things aren’t always fair, bad things happen to good people, etc. he said it’s a realistic world, so romantics are burned quite often. This theme of romantic idealism conflicting with harsh reality is something he finds very dramatic and compelling, and he weaves it into his work.” (2005 interview).

Sansa is arguably, the embodiment of this dismantling. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that love isn’t real, or that it doesn’t deserve to exist in a gritty world such as Westeros. There were many couples who had good, happy marriages, even after war and loss and trauma. For example, apart from the Jon Snow situation, Ned and Catelyn had a remarkably healthy relationship. So it is possible - the takeaway from the series is not that hoping is meaningless, dreams are meaningless, love is meaningless. More so that it is complicated, and it must coexist alongside all the chaos in order to achieve a sort of

equilibrium. A literal ‘Dream of Spring’ a hope for happiness, rather than happiness itself. It tracks with the bittersweet conclusion to the series ; it is a grimdark story, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a grimdark ending where everyone good and noble dies and wishes/dreams/innate desires remain unfulfilled. 

In fact, I argue that a lot of them will come true - but at what cost? It’ll be at the cost of loss and grief, of suffering upon suffering, but what’s inherently more powerful, what’s more subversive is having those characters persist and rebuild, regenerate, create a new world where love and chaos undoubtedly exist alongside each other, but just because there is chaos, that does not mean the love is miniscule or cancels out entirely. 

Because if all these characters have the most unsatisfying, awful conclusions known to man, well - what was the point of everything? What was the point of their journeys? This isn’t a nihilistic story, and it won’t have a nihilistic ending like everyone assumes. It’s far more difficult for an author to craft such an ending, balancing things out whilst acknowledging all the loss and still holding out hope for a better future to come. That brighter days will arrive. That winter will end, and spring will be on the horizon.

“We may lose our heads, it’s true. But what if we prevail?” (Davos I ADWD). 

And that right there, sums it up perfectly. 

So you need characters like Sansa, characters like Brienne, D@ny, (you know what let’s just add all the Stark children of the series to the list, because every single character arc is about remaining resilient and prevailing in some way or another). 

But it’s Sansa who exists as the meta character that embodies/indulges in all those romantic ideals that GRRM is intent on exploring - it thus makes perfect sense for it to be her that experiences the romance arc. Many people think she’ll end up with the H0und, or Harry the douchebag, because it’s a part of her growing up, maturing, learning from her negative biases etc etc but she shouldn’t have to be with abusive or douchy men to learn that. She’s already learned and suffered enough. 

“It is my claim they want. No one will ever marry me for love.”

And how utterly heartbreaking that she has resigned to think this, with her arc only mid-way. But importantly, just a few chapters later she enters the garden of undisputed beauty and equates the snow landing on her face with romantic kisses, she dreams of innocence and winterfell, despite lamenting how she doesn’t belong in such a pure world, she steps out into it all the same. And she builds her home in the snow, content and for once - she’s the child she is, the child she is yearning to be.

So Sansa falling in love with Jon makes sense on a characteristic level. It’s something she never would have considered as a sheltered child, not just because he’s her bastard half brother but because he just didn’t exist in her idea of how the world works. He didn’t fit in with her idea of knights, and courtly love and chivalry. He wasn’t a gallant golden prince, he was dark, sulky and brooding. He existed on the parameters of her life, and she was comfortable with that distant association - but she still loved him, and he her. 

Falling in love with Jon would equate to a dismantling of these previous prejudices  she held; he’s utterly unconventional, the opposite of what she has shown attraction to (despite her first ‘love’ being Waymar Royce, who resembles Jon strikingly). The man she never really considered beyond courtesy and some scarce, fond memories - to be the one who restores her faith in men, in love, in dreams. 

“Realising with terror that she has fallen in love with Jon… their passion will continue to torment them.” 

tracks with Sansa’s characterisation particularly, her memory lapses, her clouded judgement, and inability to interpret things correctly (and something as confusing as this would certainly cause her to have some cognitive dissonance going on).

Not to mention caution around well… men. Because who would ever marry her for love? Who would ever take her for true? Love her without expectations and judgement? It’s Jon. Who has been there since the very beginning, who has been a silent unconscious hero, the answer to her prayers, who embodies all those romantic and knightly ideals she has so desperately wanted - despite her being unaware. Who has advocated for her claim - above everyone else.

“No one will ever marry me for love.” And that infamous Jon chapter follows. Jon who is never quite far from Sansa’s suitors. Jon, who has a similar dream of rebuilding Winterfell, of having children named after lost siblings, who wants to woo a girl by giving her a rose and loving beneath the heart tree - the heart of Winterfell. Who would undeniably want to have that beautiful soul-nourishing love he never received as a child, that he believes is perpetually unavailable to him. 

Above all,  they just fit together. It fits with GRRM’s William Faulkner-esque “the human heart in conflict with itself".” And this is a perfectly subversive way of  encapsulating that Jon confusing brotherly love and affection with romance, struggling with the shame of it all - especially post-resurrection, the religious disillusionment that would occur, the notion of Jon being loved by the kind of girl he believed he never had the right to, who his deeply romantic heart is yearned for. (There is a reason GRRM let us know how badly Jon yearns for domesticity, Winterfell love, children, and a wife. He associates his love for Ygritte with her singing, her hair, her smile. He dreams of her tending to him with gentle hands) The simple yet meaningful things that have been denied to him because of his bastardry. And god, what better way to torment these two than by having them fall for each other - realising they fit each other so perfectly, yet tormented by their familial relation. Until, as the outline puts, the parentage is revealed. 

Do I believe they will act on their feelings pre-parentage reveal? No. It’ll likely exist in the subtext, in private thoughts and actions. Angst, guilt. Again, the stuff that GRRM loves - the human heart is in conflict with itself. 

Much like Lord Byron’s ‘The Bride of Abydos.” Where half-siblings fall in love with each other until they realise they are actually cousins. Lord Byron, who was famously in love with his half sister Augusta, who was a stranger to him for a good portion of his life until they properly got to know each other and fell in love. (Who does that sound like?’)

And if you’re wondering how Jon and Sansa could possibly connect to Lord Byron, well there is a ‘Byron the Beautiful’ in Alayne II AFFC, and Alayne I TWOW. GRRM has further instilled characters by the name of “Manfred” which is in reference to Lord Byron’s infamous work of the same name. (I urge you to check out all of Cappy's Byron metas, they are fantastic.

And, Jon has been called a “Brooding, Byronic, romantic heroine whom all the girls love.” GRRM knows what Byronic is inferring - he isn’t daft, he’s a writer - he reads other works and takes influence and sprinkles in so many things. 

A Byronic character involves:

. . romantic melancholy, guilt for secret sin, pride, defiance, restlessness, alienation, revenge, remorse, moodiness, and such noble virtues as honor, altruism, courage, and pure love for a gentle woman. (Poetry Foundation, Lord Byron)

“GRRM: I was always intensely Romantic, even when I was too young to understand what that meant. But Romanticism has its dark side, as any Romantic soon discovers… which is where the melancholy comes in, I suppose. I don’t know if this is a matter of artistic influences so much as it is of temperament. But there’s always been something in the twilight that moves me, and a sunset speaks to me in a way that no sunrise ever has.”

Infinity plus:

And isn’t that exactly what he would be exploring with Jon and Sansa? It isn’t a conventional romance by any means. It could never exist normally until Jon’s parentage is revealed. And that is the tormented nature of it, that is the “bittersweetness” of it - it is rooted in realism, yes - and that to me, is Sansa receiving her true love, countering that no one would ever marry her for love. The gods will grant it to her, - but it’s wrapped up in this darker, morally ambiguous thing that is confusing for her, even though Jon would be her dream come true - he isn’t this neat little courtly golden package, but he embodies all those ideals more than any man she’s actually met. 

It’s subversive to what both the characters and the readers expect, and it’s just a brilliant plot twist that screams unpredictability whilst fitting together like a perfect puzzle. It creates internal conflict and evokes those themes that GRRM loves to explore. By giving the ‘heroes’ of the series a motif such as incest is extremely bold; because it challenges the reader greatly. Some people don’t want Jon to end up with Sansa because it contradicts the image that they have of him in his head - the heroic male who will save the world with his heroic counterpart and together they shall rule the seven kingdoms. To embrace his father’s family, claim a dragon, fulfil the prophecy, be the third head of the dragon, reject his stark-ness. Very predictable. Done to death a thousand times over, and yet - it is what the general audience wants/expects. It’s what the dudebros who call him the ‘GOAT’ want, it’s what the Targ stans want, it’s what the show watchers wanted - but what does Jon want? 

“Yet he could not let the wildlings breach the Wall, to threaten Winterfell and the north, the barrowlands and the Rills, White Harbor and the Stony Shore, even the Neck. For eight thousand years the men of House Stark had lived and died to protect their people against such ravagers and reavers . . . and bastard-born or no, the same blood ran in his veins. Bran and Rickon are still at Winterfell besides. Maester Luwin, Ser Rodrik, Old Nan, Farlen the kennelmaster, Mikken at his forge and Gage by his ovens . . . everyone I ever knew, everyone I ever loved.” (Jon II ASOS). 

“I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

"He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade.” (Jon XII ASOS). 

“Red eyes, Jon realised, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they'd found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow.”

He had his answer then." (Jon XII ASOS)

“He was the blood of Winterfell, a man of the Night's Watch. I will not father a bastard, he told her. I will not. I will not. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she whispered.” (Jon VI ASOS)

“Ygritte answered for him. "His name is Jon Snow. He is Eddard Stark's blood, of Winterfell." (Jon VIII ACOK)

"Then you must do what needs be done," Qhorin Halfhand said. "You are the blood of Winterfell and a man of the Night's Watch." (Jon VI ASOS). 

“You can't be the Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born, he heard Robb say again. And the stone kings were growling at him with granite tongues. You do not belong here. This is not your place. When Jon closed his eyes he saw the heart tree, with its pale limbs, red leaves, and solemn face. The weirwood was the heart of Winterfell, Lord Eddard always said . . . but to save the castle Jon would have to tear that heart up by its ancient roots, and feed it to the red woman's hungry fire god. I have no right, he thought. Winterfell belongs to the old gods.” (Jon XII ASOS) 

“He sat on the bench and buried his head in his hands. Why am I so angry? he asked himself, but it was a stupid question. Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father's heir.” (Jon XII ASOS).

“If I could show her Winterfell . . . give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us.” (Jon V ASOS). 

“If he must perish, let it be with a sword in his hand, fighting his father's killers. He was no true Stark, had never been one … but he could die like one. Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three.” (Jon IX AGOT).

Look, at the end of the day - we don't know how the story will go, but based off of Jon’s character arc? His thoughts? His actions? His relationships with his siblings? The fact that he has warged into a magical beast directly associated with Starks? The North? The Old Gods? The weir wood trees? I think that instead of GRRM having Jon go down the conventional disadvantaged male hero finding out he is a secret prince and thus becoming King and a proper Targ, GRRM will subvert expectations (much to audience displeasure) and do the opposite.

Learning of his true identity will just cause more angst and a major identity crisis. The one thing Jon finds real and solid, that no one can take from him - is that he is Ned Stark’s son. He raised him. Perhaps they don’t share a direct blood link. But that doesn’t matter, what matters is that he was raised by him, loved by him. So instead of choosing his father’s family; embracing the secret prince persona and fighting for the throne - he’ll choose his mother’s family. And I think that is beautifully conclusive.

But back to Jon and Sansa. GRRM is given the opportunity to explore the sort of impact this incest motif has on fundamentally good people. And I think this is what he originally intended to do with Jon and Aria.

Yes, we have Jaime and Cersei, but this is real sibling incest and rife with toxic narcissism, possession etc. We have the T@rgaryens, which are messy beyond belief and practice it due to blood purity. 

But Jon and Sansa clearly differ from the rest, and that is because they exist partly as foils as to what we previously have seen. Similar to Jonnel x Sansa. By intentionally refraining from the development of a properly-close sibling relationship, making Jon and Sansa fundamental opposites visually, and associating them with entirely different cultures (yet writing their core personas as the same, their dreams compatible, their thought process and idealism similar).

GRRM manages to pave the way into such a romance that comes as a shock to the characters, the narrative, and readers themselves. Because no one, absolutely no one would see it coming, and the people who have been privy to the theory - immediately dismiss it - and become quite angry when it is brought up. Like I said earlier, a knee-jerk reaction. 

To quote this brilliant meta right here:

‘Whether Jon and Sansa fall in love is up to the author and his intended exploration of literary/mythic themes that his predecessors have deployed. He is not writing from (or for) the moral values of show watchers and book readers, or their anecdotal hopes for how things “should be.” He’s writing a narrative that breaks away from conventional storytelling and what we expect from such characters.’

…

‘ I don’t believe the author is giving up completely on the romantic dream. He has made Sansa more cautious, converted her dreams into mere prayers, and has forced her to examine her assumptions, but he’s not turning her into the H0und, who is too pessimistic and fatalistic as a suitor. Sandor’s assertion that all knights are killers makes fantasy so small, it’s eliminated. I think he is setting Sansa on a path where her dreams do die, and her life becomes about as romantic as that smokestack in Cleveland - until they start to come alive again when she travels North to the Wall.’

'That cold, hard reality is still present in the fact that they are brother and sister, but once Jon’s parentage is revealed, this will change. Like an inverted Cinderella (clock striking 12), the reality will become fantasy again. But it’s still inladen with this bitter reality of their relations. So taking this into account, I believe Jon and Sansa could happen because there is no other couple in the series with which GRRM can explore his fascination with fantasy becoming “smaller,” but not completely shrinking altogether. There are no two better characters who represent these ideas, who have the same quietly domestic desires - who do not (at the moment) actively lust for power and cause it to blind them.'

So in essence, Jon and Sansa exist as the subversion of romance. In a twisted, loving sort of way that is morally conflicting to the characters and audiences (for a time). That has existed between the lines, subtly and implicitly. That the audience gives absolutely no thought, because why would they? And if they do, they are abhorred by it - but I’d argue this is the entire point. But not for the reasons you think, not because of the incest - or J0nerys would disgust them.

From the moment he started the series, GRRM has employed incest as a major motif that impacts both the narrative and the characters - the causes the war, that contributes to T@rgaryen values, legacy etc, that propels aspects of narcissism and vitriol for characters like Cersei. It’s really really interesting stuff, as uncomfortable as it is - there are no other works that explore it so messily and beautifully with such nuance. 

I believe people seriously underestimate GRRM’s use of omission and subtext. Seriously, just because something is not explicitly stated, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Unfortunately fans have such a surface level reading of the text, that they are unable to peel back the layers and get to its core. They don’t consider literary influences, or art, or the Romantic movement or anything. They claim they want a complex story that is subversive, yet they cheer for the three-headed dragon theory and all the most predictable plot points that have been absolutely done to death. But then they turn up their noses at anything that goes against the grain, or insinuates otherwise.  

R + L = J is a great example of existence within the subtext, yet nobody denies that it is there. No one is called crazy or delusional for it. Ned never thinks of Jon’s true parentage despite harbouring that secret for years, because it is buried deep in his subconscious.

And much to the audience’s surprise (and dismay I'm sure) that is how Jon and Sansa will manifest. This is the human heart in conflict with Jon and Sansa, but not just them - the readers as well. It’s pointing to us, asking us how we’ll possibly handle it. We’re meant to feel this conflict of emotions - anguish and torment and yet hope for something ineffable - just like the characters.

To be able to evoke that as a writer is one of the most impressive feats I can think of - and for the majority of it to exist at this point, in a subconscious limbo?  How utterly complex and painful and raw and intelligent but oh so very brilliant. Perhaps one of the most compelling things to come out of this entire series, if only the general audience was open to such discussions. But alas, we must contend with the community we have, and hope for a dream of spring to come upon us. 

[local-lamppost]

Initial thoughts cause it's 4am

Spoilers

First off, wow... it's really good. I've been saying that if season 2 is as good as season 1 Arcane would be my new favorite show and we are on track. Anyway, just gonna list stuff until I can process/rewatch a billion times

Mel lived! I was so certain that they would just kill her off, make that Ambessa's motive (give Jayce a reason to keep fighting the Undercity) but it's much more interesting keeping her involved in the narrative. Love her trying to bother understand and undermine her mother. Those Black Rose guys best not have hurt a hair on her perfect head.

Speaking of. What in the Utena are these Black Rose magic people? I love the look of their magic. I wonder how they can corrupt people. Is it a spell? Do they slip them something?

Love how the divide of Jayce and Viktor was done. Jayce betrayed Viktor's wishes of destroying the Hexcore. Last season, Viktor wanted to forget about using the core to save himself after Sky and begged Jayce to destroy it when the core wouldn't allow Viktor himself to do it. In Jayce's mind though, the core is the solution to Viktor's problems. He didn't know it killed Sky or that it can influence Viktor, but all Viktor can comprehend is that Jayce didn't trust him. Didn't keep his promise. And this is fresh off of Jayce's season 1 antics against the Undercity, so Viktor's faith in his partner was already shaken. Viktor's also comfortable in his mortality/death, even though he wants to prolong it like every other human, but Jayce can't fathom loosing Viktor-the man who saved his life and made his dreams reality.

(Side note: Am I a JayVik shipper? I never considered myself one, but after writing this...)

JINX HAS A KID! I love this choice. Give Jinx a kid so she is able to learn what Silco and Vi had to go through with her, that no matter how big or dangerous a scheme to take this child into account. The confrontation in ep 3 really showed what Jinx will have to consider now that this kid's decided to adopt her as an older sister or something. Especially nice detail of how Vi-who has always had to consider the kids in her life-immediately stops fighting and starts looking for ways to keep the kid safe.

I was wondering how Jinx would loose a finger and Caitlyn shooting it off to save Vi is just- The fact that the only way these two can show they care about Vi when it comes to each other is by hurting the other.

Sevika's new arm is fantastic. It's a peace offering from Jinx, but also a way for Jinx to feel better (it was something she could fix). The mechanics of it are really fun. It reminds me of Kite's weapon from HxH with how it didn't always work/give her what she wanted in the fight. I especially love the victory rockets and built in theme song.

Ambessa is so interesting. Between her character song to the introduction of just what she is fighting against, I am very intrigued. She reminds me of Cersei Lannister, except she loves her kids as more than just extensions of herself (as of what we've seen, but I think that'll stick). Her using Salo to establish herself-which also keeps Mel safe by distancing her-but also dropping him in order to prop up Cait at her first opportunity is such a clever move. She truly is the fox and the wolf, but she is above all a mama bear.

Not much to say about Heimerdinger or Ekko yet, but I am definitely curious to see what they do about the wild runes with Jayce. The three of them have a fun dynamic, what with Heimerdinger still being peeved about magic/being ousted, Ekko hating topside and having a new reason to do so with them poisoning his tree, and Jayce being recently seperated and divorced from both his partners.

Vi is an enforcer. I didn't know how they were gonna handle this, but they did it so well. Of course she wants to fix things for the people her sister hurt. She feels responsible. She can say she doesn't blame herself, but how true is that? Why else would she be wearing a badge if not for her guilt? She is desperate to do something right and being an enforcer seemed to be a way to make Cait happy, get her gauntlets (what she believes is necessary to make any kind of change), and be first in line in the hunt for Jinx. She says that her sister is dead, that Jinx is a desecration to Powder's memory, that they are not sisters but isn't it supposed to be 'nothing is going to change that'? How much of all this is just something Vi is telling herself to keep going? Cait is her motive right now, but after ep 3 I definitely see why she starts spiraling.

(2 Side note: Her new best friend/drinking buddy is such a real one. They have a bender in the gutter together and now he's following her into and out of the enforcers. I wonder if he knew Vander? In any case, he is a delight.)

Cait and Vi kissed... CAIT AND VI KISSED! Then NOTHING HAPPENED AFTER! NOTHING! No immediate break up, nope.

So Cait. I love Cait and I am hyped for her arc this season. I am ready to fight tooth and nail for her. I am a Caitlyn defender. So what she's being manipulated into leading a military state due to her grief/unresolved anger/guilt/Ambessa being better at this than her, she looks amazing in her cape. It balances.

Seriously though, the writing for Cait especially is so solid. She is desperate to hold herself and her family together, to protect her city. She still wants to protect the innocent, to heal the Undercity, but her anger at a select few of those she wants to help is clouding the greater image for her. Vi seems to be acting as her better half, the side that cares for the innocent-the protector. Ambessa is the agressor, encouraging Cait to take drastic military action against the Undercity as a whole. Vi's disillusionment with Cait is due to the fact that Cait desire to heal, not harm, is what caused her to fall for Cait to begin with. To see more than some privileged topside enforcer, but a woman who genuinely cared and was willing to abandon her peaceful naivety to learn for the greater good of strangers.

I'll also point out that they separate when Cait starts blaming Vi for them loosing Jinx. Before, everyone but Cait put responsibility on Vi, she was supposed to be the one to help lighten the load and absolve some of the guilt. Now Cait is becoming another one of those who slam the blame on Vi. She changed. Why does everyone around VI change?

Can't wait for the next batch of episodes.

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Dear Raven ven venny ven, do you have any favourite ships in the twst cast? If so, why?

I don’t have any ships among the TWST cast that I’m crazy about! That doesn’t mean I “hate” all the combinations, it’s just that I feel neutral about most of them. I would say I’m pretty open to considering rare pairs and all kinds of tropes (enemies to lovers, childhood friends, etc.), but I’ve yet to find one in TWST that solidly lands with me.

Certainly there are dynamics I enjoy—the Science Club boys, for example—but do I see them being romantically engaged with one another? Eeeeeh, debatable. I could really go either way.

It’s actually easy to (temporarily) influence my takes on certain ships 😂 Sometimes I’ll listen to my friends talk ad nauseam about a ship they’re super into and their excitement is so infectious that it rubs off on me. I’ll go, “Wow, that really is a cute interaction! I can see why you ship them.” This had happened before with Malleus x Cater a few years back, though now I’ve returned to a neutral state on it since the shipper friend hasn’t been as active talking about the two. I appreciate my friends for popping off because even if I don’t have the same passion as they do for the ship, it helps me see the characters and their interactions under a new lens or from a different angle. (I actually wrote a fic where Cater takes Malleus to a maid cafe, inspired by my friend’s speeches about the duo. It’s meant to be platonic, but I think it could also be read as romantic if you choose to view it that way.)

I get easily influenced by fan art too, even if I don’t know the creator on a personal level. A few weeks back, I saw this Jade x Jamil post and it was so wholesome and tooth rottingly sweet (even though it was a ship I did not gave the time of day to before) 😭 And then I started to think about their similarities (both vice dorm leaders, both passive aggressive, both manipulators, etc.) and gradually convinced myself “Hey, it could work!” Now that I’ve had some time to be weaned off of the fan art though, I’m back to that baseline feeling of neutrality. It’s the exposure therapy wearing off/j

On the topic of Yuu (they’re technically a part of the TWST cast), I’m particularly lukewarm about any ships involving them—and Yuu ships are the only exception to my “I’m easily influenced to change my mind” rule; I’m always neutral about Yuu ships. They’re a blank slate, so the dynamics they have with other characters changes drastically depending on what “kind” of Yuu they are. I don’t have a Yuusona of my own, nor do I project onto Yuu, so I find little value in their character (or lack thereof). This extends to ships too; because I don’t see (my) Yuu as a “real” character, I also don’t see the potential in shipping them with those in the cast. I’ll support everyone’s right to their own Yuu and related ships, but I don’t necessarily get gung-ho about them unless I know the creators well. This is because the familiarity I have with them then extends to their Yuus; I can see bits of them and their own personalities and experiences in their Yuus, and that makes me feel like I have a more meaningful bond with whatever their interpretation (and romantic involvement!) is.

Of course, there are also some ships that I don’t like or that personally make me uncomfortable (for example, incest ships) 💦 I don’t want to like… yuck your yums, so I won’t go into explicit detail about which other ships I’m not a fan of or would prefer as platonic. Regardless of how I may feel about those, I don’t want to give the impression that I’m going to judge you for what you do or don’t ship. You do you—just be sure to respect boundaries and don’t push what you ship onto others, especially if they have indicated they’re not into the same things you are.

Just to make things clear, please do NOT send me asks like “Here is my ship and here is why you should consider it!” and “How do you feel about [Character A] x [Character B]?” or any variant (which includes polycules, love triangles, etc.). I will also not be responding to asks pressing me for which ships I dislike. I won’t be providing a tier list either since there are way too many possible combinations to account for. Shipping talk with strangers/the public makes me anxious and I’d rather not have that level of stress on a consistent basis.

Thank you for understanding ^^

[snakeoilpictures]

The problem with pro-shippers: NSFW child content

Silence is golden but that only pertains to certain cases. The subject of pro-ship vs anti-ship has been a huge manner of debate in fandoms, primarily A03 and A03's subreddit and tumblr community. If you admit to being anti-ship, you're suddenly exiled and considered a pariah to the community and a promoter of cancel culture.

"Let people enjoy things!" "It's not real, it's fictional!" "These characters and actors are our toys to play with" "Disregard all haters, they're the monsters"

Only goes so far in some subjects. There is a fine line drawn when the content involves CSEA that's not told with a negative connotation.

However, pro-shippers do not like being told the difference.

The difference between a negative narrative and a romanticizing narrative. (ie: we as readers and the author know that pedophilia and child pornography is bad. Versus: we as readers and the author enjoy fictional pornography when it involves children and we enjoy writing 10 year olds having sex with other 10 year olds or a 10 year old calling a 40 year old man "daddy" during NSFW acts).

That the characters being fictionalized completely disregards all notions that the author and readers enjoy reading about children in NSFW content. Because it's "fictional".

That if you like watching a cannibal on TV and the fact that you may enjoy a show about a cannibal, it doesn't make you a cannibal because it's fiction. This argument is used on the daily for pro-shippers.

4. Because no children are actually harmed. That may be, but the reader and author are still enjoying content that involves the images of children in NSFW scenarios.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter if the children are fictionalized or not, but no pro-shipper is going to agree because the characters in themselves are considered "toys" they can play with. (Don't get me started on how wrong the term of "toy" sounds in regards to children, fictional or not.)

The true facts here are that the reader and author are still putting a child's face onto a character involved in NSFW content. That's all it is. Picturing a child's prepubescent body parts as a character and finding that attractive enough to write about in an NSFW fashion. Again, pro-ship will disagree and become hostile.

But why is NSFW fictional child pornography morally wrong when writing fictionalized incest pornography is not?

Because the fictionalized incest pornography does not involve actual siblings or family members. One may just like the characters together regardless of blood. It doesn't mean that the author or reader is attracted to their real life sibling or wishes to put two real life siblings together in NSFW scenarios like Liam and Chris Hemsworth and because child pornography is CSEA. A child cannot consent. Even fantasizing about a fictional child in rape scenarios is beyond levels of fucked up.

"But fictionalized incest isn't real so fictionalized child pornography isn't real"

The biggest difference is that the reader and writer aren't finding the real life prospect of incest attractive, but they are finding CSEA content an attractive scenario.

But god forbid you raise your voice against this, and you'll be crucified.

It. Doesn't. Matter. That. They're. Not. Real.

You are still attracted to the images of child characters.

But wait, no actual children were harmed?! "It's just an instrusive thought" "I can safely look at CSEA in a safe environment where I don't hurt anyone" No. Get help. Get therapy. Harm reduction is not thr same when it comes to non consenting minors and when it comes to a user getting off on the idea of children. Get help. There is no lesser evil here. These thoughts are not okay.

Come @ me. I'm not scared. Not as scared as some pro-shippers should be once their search history is discovered. (For the record, I pray you do not have this kind of content on your person. However if you truly believe CSEA is okay if no one is physically harmed by you then by all means, tell your therapist about it)

#end rant

[solarwynd]

https://x.com/slvrtre/status/1869076594905723348?t=_3v_QkwjLW24CRQiYgWHFw&s=19

I saw this and was wondering how many times These ppl or #HIM in specific lies to keep that ot7 shit forever going. First things first none of these men hold a candle against dancer jm to even comment on his dance, not even hobi because jm is way more versatile dancer than hobi, but even if I give benefit of the dought and think they were giving objective critisism Why in the world would you lie and say you were praising jimin pre-debut when the said man is right there and has known what you said about him? That too twice brother? Where's your shame? Atleast feel a little to do that when jm is right there? Although idt it was all of them so i wonder which one of them criticized him. Idt it would be yg and jk because i do remember jk's first impression of jm was that he was kinda impressed with his stunts and was even asking jm how to do it(but that was when they first met so idk again) for yg i just think he in general loves jimin's voice and dance. He does think jm can do it well so idk i just think he's been encouraged when it's needed.

Also read a comment that once taehyung said that his alarm ringtone is Army's voice or something like that and jm caught him on the spot and asked him to play the ringtone right there and taehyung admitted lying AGAIN......

I also remember this guy playing dumb as how he doesn't know how to use that mask while cooking with his Jinny's kitchen intentionally putting it over his eyes when we literally have rub BTS ep where he's used that mask perfectly fine over his mouth....like bro why even? Wanting attention of fans thinking they'd find it cute? How many times does he lie? Then every single time him presenting things the way shippers aka Tkkrs wants to and then you hear it from the other husband aka jungkook and it's a different story......IF the speculations of jennie being with them in Hawaii is true then again presenting it in how shippers wants that too during jm's album release time is fked up.

Then members say this man is most innocent what innocent when you do things with different intentions and those intentions not even being right in the first place.

I know i only pointed out just taehyung while talking about all members but i have seen incidences with him so i pointed him out. Honestly wonder how they actually treated him because from the looks of it only yg seems to be encouraging one when jm was a trainee, we know what kind of a guy jungkook was with jm lol.

Honestly who knows.

But the way that’s not even the first time Jimin has brought it up so you know it bothered him. I’ll forever find it beyond strange just how badly Jimin was up against it during his debut days. From the aversion of so many higher ups in the company down to some of the members themselves. And it’s not even like they were battling against each there for a spot on the team atp, they were all fixed and Jimin just came on later. What was there to even feel indifferent about someone that talented (and who honestly saved the group from just being a couple notches above average) was joining? Just weird ash.

I feel like Jimin is very much a “forgive but don’t forget” type of person. Maybe not so heavy on the forgive part, just moving past. Because it was extremely bold of that man to try and rewrite history that Jimin experienced personally. And ontop of that without us fully knowing the extent of how bad it was, him lying about it probably came off as trivializing or minimizing it even if he tried to pass it off as a joke.

That’s why in retrospect, I still really don’t understand how that “soulmate” narrative even stuck for as long as it has. I understand that not all relationships have a solid start and can change over time, but theirs has so many lows and never really changed for the better…And Taehyung at his core is just such a fake ass unlikable person. Just does or says whatever he feels will make he look good in a certain light. Literally everything his solos and tkkrs accuse Jimin of doing, that man is the epitome of all of it.

[tex-now]

Hey is it just me or do certain fans complain about how much they hate the other groups instead of loving theirs.

I don't think calling out the misogyny in this fandom is wrong, not in the slightest (my most popular post is calling out the way people treat ena versus akito because of their gender), but most of the time these call out posts just result in more negativity and arguments rather than any like. Productive discussion.

I don't wanna hear about how minoharu and anhane are more canon than ruikasa and akitoya and are Therefore More Valid And Liking Ruikasa More Is Wrong And Bad (exaggerated but most of the time people do insult a ship in order to promote their own) (also sometimes implies that rarepairs are less valid which is a dick move). I wanna hear about the interesting (and I mean very interesting) relationship that an has with kohane, her feelings of inadequacy and slight envy, I wanna hear about how minori (and the rest of mmj) inspired haruka to get back on the stage, and how minori finally got to "repay" haruka in a way.

I didn't start liking ichika because of people endlessly complaining about how underutilized she is and how You Guys Just Don't Get Her, Read The Stories And you'll Discover That She's Actually Perfect Actually (this one isn't an exaggeration but it was on YouTube not Tumblr so in it goes), I started liking her because I learned about her character, her sheer determination and love for her friends, and her want to resonate with people's hearts from people who really like her.

I'm not gonna pretend the Ruikasa fandom and akitoya fandom can't be annoying, a lot of them are toxic and have a habit of making everything about Ruikasa/akitoya while reducing their relationships with other characters to push their shipping narrative. It pisses me off. A lot. I could write (and probably will write) an entire essay on how entitled and bitchy Ruikasa/akitoya fans can be, and I definitely understand how it can build up resentment towards a ship, and how their mass popularity is most definitely attributed to the fact that they are men (which results in an extreme lack of understanding of their actual characters and overall dynamic, reducing them to "top tall sexy one" and "bottom cute feminine one" which upsets me to hell and back). And calling this out is not wrong in the slightest.

but needlessly attacking a ship that someone likes is not a call out. calling Ruikasa and akitoya "a stupid ship" is not a call out. Actively insulting people for liking it is not a call out. Adding Ruikasa and akitoya tags to your post bashing them is not a callout. It's being a dick. You are not doing anything productive by calling Ruikasa and akitoya shippers idiots or stupid or insulting their taste you are only going to piss people off and you know that you are going to piss people off.

Acknowledge but do not attack. Be civil. And if you cant be civil then save everyone some time and keep it private.

Oh yeah. And be annoying about your blorbos. Make KING kanamafu art. Put shizuairi in Fragile. Talk about how much you love your girl ships and your girl characters and don't event mention the guys, make fanfiction and fanart of the girls, I really really want you to, genuinely, because they do get less rep in the fandom than their male counterparts, so more content of the girls is always great. It feels a lot better than complaining about a ship you don't even like, I promise

(Btw I mention this in the tags but if anyone wants to add input or correct me on something you totally can. My words aren't law and this post is just me stating my thoughts, and I invite you to share yours if you want.)

[ghostflowerhotpotch]

Hey hey, MIles gets jealous a lot in this movie, buuuuuut what if we talk about Gwen? 👀

Oh ho ho, I know there has been memes and stuff about that, but sure, let's talk about it.

I know we all mentioned jealousy coming from Miles, but I think is kind of poetic, but also hilarious, how quickly we go from Miles's jealousy to Gwen's.

Specially if we go with the fact that once again, while Gwen doesn't really own any explanations to Miles here, nor has she done anything wrong by being friends with Hobie.

(Also look at Hobie, I want you to remember that. Also he is amazing so he deserves the extra attention.)

Yet what is her reaction?

"Oh, not that many."

I swear, I am trying not to laugh.

See what I mean? Gwen is not only aware that Miles is jealous, she is still is trying to downplay it; even when she is convinced they can't work, she doesn't want Miles to misunderstand her feelings; which she has tried to hide, but I think at this point she knows she isn't doing a good job at it.

(The entire clock scene was very close to a confession let's be honest.)

Also, about Hobie, remember how I was bringing attention to him in the first image? Yeah I am still not sure what to do with it.

Let me be honest with you guys, to get these images I do a lot of slow-motion, which also helps to let certain frames sink better and be sure that I am not just making up what I am seeing; since a lot of these moments are things that last seconds. Very blink-it and you miss it.

And while looking at this particular part, I realized Hobie's expression when he was still were...interesting.

Look part of the reason looking at frames matter in animation is because in real life; an actor could had looked at one direction because he saw a crew member do a funny face, but in animation, when you need to recreate the scene for scratch and will probably be staring at this scene a lot to ensure is up to standard, things tend to have a bit more meaning.

That being said, if you look the scene to normal speed, is extremely fast. Maybe too much for the animators to intend for us to notice something.

So what I am trying to say is that I wonder if Hobie is purposely setting Miles off, and if he is doing so, I honestly think is just to mess with them a little.

Moving on!

If I am honest, you could almost believe Gwen just wants to move on because Miguel is waiting for them and the guy is already aggro, that was my first impression at least, until I re watched and realized that they are just seeing a demonstration before going to Miguel, so they are 1) Really giving Miles a tour, and 2) Stalling. Which doesn't match going straight to the boss.

Also Gwen's voice; the first time I saw this I remember being surprised that Gwen was asking to start moving because before this point she didn't seem to be worried. Her tone definitely sounds a bit exasperated, specially considering again how little they actually seem to care to get to Miguel.

So yeah, Gwen DEFINITELY was asking to keep moving because Miles' was attention was too much in somebody.

Let's rewind a bit because let's face it, I don't blame Gwen for being jealous.

I wish my computer had a way to render a little video without imploding because oh this takes a hot second and yep Miles definitely was looking at Margo a little awestruck.

Let me preface this saying I will not tolerate any Hate to Margo or to Flowerbyte or the shippers. She is great, and I will not tolerate ship wars here.

That being said, Miles definitely is looking a little too much at Margo; I partially thing Miles was a bit shocked because it has been a while since his spider sense got receptive to other spider (which happened a lot in the first movie, not so much in this one for meeting so many spiders.)

But again, I don't think is crazy to say she caught his attention.

No, I don't think Miles is doing anything wrong here, just like Gwen didn't do anything wrong before. They aren't dating, Gwen tried to shut that down, and is not like Miles is trying to upset Gwen or anything. He was just caught off-guard.

Regardless, just like I cannot blame Miles for being jealous of Hobie, I can't blame Gwen for being jealous of Margo.

She hides it better than Miles for sure, but like everything else she does, it comes back to the details and her actions.

Remember, they aren't particularly in a hurry, and she suddenly sounds exasperated out of nowhere. Hmm.

Now, the next moment is very blink and you miss it, I barely had the chance to notice while going in slow motion, but between Gwen telling Miles to move on, and Miles looking at Margo's avatar, this is Gwen's face.

Is very fast, probably the type of thing you don't pick up in theatres, but damn, I am cackling.

I guess she really wasn't expecting Margo to get such reaction out of Miles.

This a good moment to say, that while looking at this, you can see Gwen doesn't have any ill-will towards Margo.

Unlike the previous moment, this expression of her stays for a good moment; I remember that upon first stumbling with the confirmation that Gwen is jealous of Margo, I was shocked to see that expression on her, almost like she herself remembered that Margo situation is far from perfect.

I am SO thankful with the creators for making sure that neither from Miles nor Gwen, we get the plot line of one of them being jerks out of jealousy. Yeah Miles briefly tried to be spiteful towards Hobie, but didn't take long too change his tune, not to mention that Hobie really didn't mind.

And Gwen at any moment is shown to be bitter towards Margo, regardless if Miles was doing puppy eyes at her or not.

I just realized now, that Gwen is actually the first one to say they should go.

I really believe part of this was because the go-home-machine was looking a bit perverse. Even Margo looks a bit unsure of what to do of this, so it makes me wonder if is normal for it to look this painful.

(Sidenote, considering Miles and Gwen looked okay when they got out from this machine, I think Rhino was in pain because he was glitching at that moment. That would explain Margo looking like this if it was "normal.")

It doesn't escape me that Miles' reaction is the most shock one, no idea if Gwen could had picked on that being behind Miles, but maybe she realized Miles didn't particularly enjoy seeing that.

However, what happens next?

And here, I can only show it properly with this gif.

I want also to reiterate, that "Let's go!" Was from Hobie, I think he was trying to warn Miles.

Because Gwen didn't repeat herself, she deadass just sent a web and YANK HIM.

Again, wanting to go see Miguel my ass, you guys didn't seem particularly interested on that before. Not to mention that hey, you can see she isn't asking anymore and considering how she was looking at Miles from behind I don't think is because she doesn't want to be late.

Is a bit too small to take a proper capture, and hard to see, but yep, she looks mad.

I love how Margo laughs after this, like sure, Miles is endearing, but I also bet my left kidney she also clocked Gwen's crush extremely quickly because of this.

I almost expect Margo and Pavitr discuss who is crushing harder in the sequel.

Sorry for making this so freaking long and with so many sideways, but I think I needed to point out a few things, hope didn't bored anyone!

Keep suggesting moments!

[zukosdualdao]

the idea that zutara shippers are just ~shallowly*~ obsessed with the enemies to lovers dynamic is so funny to me, personally, because it’s so far from what my preferred ship dynamic tends to be. in general, i am much more predisposed to enjoy romances rooted in friendship and affection right off the bat. i can see the appeal of a lot of enemies-to-lovers ship dynamics on an objective level, but it’s historically pretty rare for that to be the kind of dynamic i am most invested in or pulled in by.

and funnily enough, though i do see and appreciate in retrospect the romantic coding before that point (zuko, buddy, what WAS “you rise with the moon, i rise with the sun” - and keeping katara’s necklace for six episodes after bribing her already didn’t work - about??? i have questions), it’s really not until the crossroads of destiny, where they connect as something other than enemies for the first time, on a much more personal level than anyone in the gaang has connected with zuko, that my interest in their dynamic took root.

*to be clear: this is not me saying that it’s bad for people to like zutara specifically because they generally like the enemies-to-lovers trope or to have started shipping them early on. and i don’t see that as shallow myself, it’s just a criticism i’ve seen slung around a lot. literally ship and let ship. and also, like, of course i enjoy the early aspects of their dynamic because that’s where the growth and story come from. their canon relationship arc wouldn’t be complete without it. so i do enjoy the enemies-(to friends)-to lovers of it all, it’s just that’s not what i generally am looking for in ships lmao. for me, it’s an outlier!

this post is definitely not about bashing other zutara shippers, let it be known, i want to be clear about that. it’s just born of general frustration and bafflement that zutara shippers are seen by antis as a monolith who can only possibly ship it because of their interest in a certain trope—when it’s not even the one i usually go for. lmao.

[shadamyheadcanons]

Thoughts on Shadouge? I used to ship it casually years ago just because I was looking at possibilities of a love interest for Shadow which I didn't consider for a long time, but it quickly lost its appeal for me. I know you said you don't think it works which I agree with and I'm curious about your reasoning.

Explanation under the cut. There’s nothing too negative, but I always feel bad when these wind up in tags and searches for the ship name.

To start, I will say that it doesn’t feel “wrong” to me like most Shadow ships do. I get where shadouge fans are coming from, and I’ve never met a shadouge shipper who was pushy or unpleasant about it. That’s rare in fandoms. I like how low-key they are. :)

As for the ship itself, I don’t buy it because they’re just so solidly best friends. I’ve never seen anything that I’d call romantic between them.

For Shadow, I see two important (living) women in his life right now:

One is a consistent, reliable rock who’s always going to support him and back him up because of who he is.

The other is a light, a beacon who guides him and inspires him to be the best version of himself he can be.

To me, one of those looks like a best friend, and the other looks like a love interest. He needs both, but in my opinion, it’s clear which one’s which. He’s level-headed around Rouge, and while he probably trusts her more than anyone, he looks at her the same way he looks at everyone else. Heck, he looks at her the same way he looks at Omega. I can’t imagine Rouge successfully convincing him to dress up for a murder mystery birthday party or getting him to go to a silly pop concert the way a certain pink hedgehog can, nor can I see her trying to in the first place; Amy’s the only one who can pull him out of his comfort zone like that. The most Rouge does is convince him to go to Sonic’s birthday party, and even then, she has to bribe him. Rouge’s flirtation just bounces off of Shadow, too. He doesn’t have a weak point for her. Looking at Shadow’s behavior, I think he has a soft spot for cute girls, and Rouge isn’t cute.

As for Rouge herself, she’ll support Shadow to hell and back, but we know what love looks like in her eyes. I’m not getting out of bed until she looks at someone else like this:

Rouge and Shadow are too similar in a particular way. They’re both Machiavellian, willing to go to questionable lengths to get the job done. The same goes for Omega. It’s what makes them such a good team, but a good teammate isn’t the same as a love interest. Knuckles won her over by doing the right thing and saving her life even though he had every reason not to.

I actually have some headcanons about Rouge’s past that feed into this concept. I believe Rouge grew up poor and didn’t have too many people she could trust. She had to steal for her own survival, and she learned to cling to whatever wealth she could find. She keeps a lot of secrets to this day because it’s safer. She learned the hard way that no one can hurt her if she won’t let them in.

In time, Rouge met one guy who was on her wavelength who she knew she could trust, and she met another who swept her off her feet, whose altruism upended her pessimistic outlook of how people are.

One of those looks like a best friend, and the other looks like a love interest. She needs both, but it’s clear to me which one’s which.

And of course there’s the matter of commitment. Rouge can’t stay grounded, so to speak, in the kind of stable relationship that would do Shadow a world of good. She’d rather flit around and tease everyone in sight, delighting in all the blushes she can bring out; in her own way, she likes cuteness, too. Amy, meanwhile, prefers to cling to one person, sharing the same steady devotion Shadow could provide in turn. She’s sunshine incarnate. He needs that.

Thanks for the ask!