#but with or without that

[dogsliampaynedoesntinstagram]

Hiya! Sorry this is a bit of a random message. I used to strongly believe in Larry back in 1d days, and since watching my policeman I fell down a rabbit hole with looking back at old Larry theories. I’m trying to look at everything through the lens of a rational adult rather than a 17 year old, but I honestly just feel lost.

I just now saw the RBB debunking theory that Mark Littlewood was responsible for them. I did a bit of searching to see other peoples opinions and came across your post from a while back.

I don’t really know how to feel about the bears. As a big part of the fandom at that time, I remember going to the shows and being excited to see what they were doing, and seeing the crazy amount of hype they’d get on here. It seems wild to me that it was just a sound guy who was really interested in queer culture… especially with some of the references they made to closeting/management control etc. if I remember rightly there were also specific references to H&L on their twitter (I’m thinking the bday posts?). Add to that the fact that the props and outfits for these bears were excessive… I just can’t imagine a sound guy having that much time and money on his hands. I know some of the things people were looked into were a massive stretch/coincidence, but there were definitely some direct references that I don’t know how we could of misinterpreted so wrong.

Then again, I saw another post from someone saying how could we really believe 2 people were in such a restrictive closet, but yet managed to get away with something like the bears. Maybe it really was someone who just didn’t understand how far larries would go with their theories. Everyone was so confident in the bears being at least linked to H&L at the time that I didn’t question it.

I don’t really know where I’m going with this ask lol. I just feel like I’m starting to go a bit stir crazy not knowing what I thought was real and what was complete BS. Maybe I was just completely delusional all this time.

Anyway hope you’re having a great day ha!

I find it really interesting to look back at the bears and see if my perspective has changed anon - so thanks for this ask and I'll try to answer as many of your ideas as you can.

I do think that there's every reason to think that Mark Littlewood was involved with the Bears, as well as them being in his area, the fact that RBB appeared at the Baaba Maal and Little Mix gigs strongly suggests that they ended up with a crew member. It was also always known that crew members were heavily involved in RBB - in the US tours they were set up before 1D members arrived.

I've always found the argument that crew members wouldn't have the money to set up the tableaus very unserious, and showing very little understanding of touring economics. The idea that that was an excessive amount of money to pay for a hobby over a course of year. The only thing that I can think of that was a significant amount of money was the watch - and presumably that watch belonged to someone and went back to them. Anyone on the 1D crew could have easily afforded to do everything we saw (you also mention time - there is a lot of downtime on tour).

So I think it's reasonable to take as a starting point that Mark Littlewood was involved and is probably (although not definitely) the person who ended up with RBB. From that stand point there are two sets of quesstions.

The first is about the travel after tour ended. Did Mark Littlewood travel with 1D after tour ended as the album was released? It seems unlikely, but not impossible (they did do some promo events that were more like gigs and which they might have wanted to bring their own sound guy too). The other part of this is - did the bears travel? At the time I assumed they had, because of the photos of them at Hollywood Walk of Fame (all the other photos could basically have been anywhere). But it would be possible that the photos of the bears were taken at another time. Like anyone who was into queer history enough to run the bears, might have taken photos with them at queer icons at the walk of fame just because it was cool. (Along those lines - does anyone know what time the Potato tweet went out? That would be interesting in terms of what timezone the bears were in (if anyone has a picture that includes the time stamp I'd be very interested))

The other set of questions is around the changes in the bears. One of the things that has always seemed noticeable to me is that there is a difference between the type of queer figures who were shown in the tableaus during tour and the type of queer figures that were shown on twitter. The figures in the tableaus during concerts included really deep cuts, some very British references and went back much further. The twitter references are much more mainstream. I always assumed that a slightly different group of people were involved after they stopped touring. So even if Mark Littlewood did end up with the bears - there's still at least one other person involved.

I actually have a third point - looking at the twitter feed and concerts now - it seems reasonably clear to me that the bears didn't go to Ireland. I wonder if they were left behind, or a key person wasn't with them. (It would be somehow be very typical if a large part of the 1D fans mystifying the fucking obvious with Belfast was a result of a packing mishap).

********

So that's the questions about the crew members - crew members were definitely involved - one of those crew members was almost certainly Mark Littlewood. There are other things we can guess, but not a lot that we're sure about. The other side of the question is - were 1D members involved with the bears?

I'm interested in what you mean about references to closeting/management control. I don't think I understood any of the references in that way.

There were some direct references to Harry and Louis on twitter, both their birthdays were acknowledged (no other 1D members' were). In addition, the 'home/soon to return' comments seemed to reflect one of their travel (I want to say Louis, but it was a long time ago). In addition, you have the 'Love Larry' picture in London. The other tableau references I'm less certain of than I was - but the skateboard and the banana did seem very suggestive to me at the time and there's also the blue and green smiley faces.

To me it was this representation of Louis and Harry (as opposed to the fact that things cost money) that made it most likely that they were some way involved. It seems very unlikely that someone would be able to represent their bosses in a very public and noticed way and that seems to contradict the stories they're telling about themselves for the best part of a year. Particularly when you're in this weird little touring bubble with a couple of hundred people in it.

Do I still think that? Mostly. But the one thing that has become more clear to me over time was how chaotic 1D touring was towards the end and how much everyone was limping towards the finish line - and that does mean that I'm less certain than I was.

That to me is really interesting if you assume that Mark Littlewood ended up with at least RBB

********** OK one final point and that's your friend's question. But to me that opens up a whole other question. How restrictive was Harry and Louis' closet in 2015? (or perhaps more usefully is 'restrictive' a useful scale to understand these things under).

I think I would say there were three key phases to Harry and Louis closet while in 1D. There was the 'this is all really funny/nobody has any idea what the internet will do to filmed footage/homophobia means nobody will take this seriously' stage, 2010-April 2012 (with the combination of breaking America and Wellington). Then there's the 'We cannot control this and everything seems to make it bigger, this seems to resemble a myth or legend', May 2012-October 2013 (marked by the point that Harry more or less stopped interacting on stage with other 1D members). I think you could call October 2013 on 'a new equilibrium'. There's also an argument that things began falling apart from about February 2015 - but how much that was about their closet and how much about the band in general it's hard to tell.

I tend to think that by 2015, their closet wasn't so much restrictive as (with most parts of 1D) 'lets get this to the finish line'. I suspect that a lot of what Louis and Harry weren't doing (interacting on stage, being too obviously together outside of work) was about it being easier that way. It was easier not to interact than try and interact platonically and have people make videos of it anyway. Whatever their thoughts about their future were, when it was decided to go on hiatus that obviously also involved a decision that Harry and Louis weren't going to come out while 1D. I don't really see any contradiction between not wanting to be outted and wanting to express themselves - indeed I see that as pretty core to a closeted celebrity experience.

[magnusbae]

In case you were wondering why Spotify Wrapped sucks balls this year, and more importantly doesn't have any genre data:

Can you hear the sound of bells? That's because they're clowns. 🤡 🛎

[bitchfitch]

writing advice for characters with a missing eye: dear God does losing an eyes function fuck up your neck. Ever since mine crapped out I've been slowly and unconsciously shifting towards holding my head at an angle to put the good eye closer to the center. and human necks. are not meant to accommodate that sorta thing.

[biggest-gaudiest-patronuses]

it's healthy for academics to have professional feuds. enrichment activity

[ilona-mushroom]

Not socialist in a “I won’t have to work” type of way but socialist in a “I’ll still be working but I won’t be worried I won’t make the rent” type of way. In a “billions won’t be hoarded by one person” type of way. In a “janitors, fast-food workers, child care workers, preschool teachers, hotel clerks, personal care and home health aides, and grocery store cashiers, will live comfortably” type of way. In a “the sick and elderly will be cared for” type of way. In a “no child should work” type of way.

[nemesis-is-my-middle-name]

that article going around abt firefox's new ad program is annoying bc it's phrased as though "mozilla has finally TURNED on its people and is SELLING YOU OUT for cold hard cash!!" when. that's not what's happening. it is specifically being implemented to discourage tracking behavior, and literally all the data they are giving to advertisers is aggregate and anonymized, which is like, the opposite of what that post wants you to worry about, lol

[kenapiece-main]

Can you believe I'm having to make this meme even after successfully finishing up taxes and applying to job

[rainia]

this speaking as a cis person. Nothing brings me more joy seeing people find gender euphoria in becoming a mediocre representation of humanity. And I mean that so genuinely. Local boy finds joy and fulfillment wearing a cargo shorts and t-shirt combo. Local girl has transitioned to look like someone's disheveled aunt, has never been happier. Local person experiences gender euphoria rocking the world's worst bowl-cut. Without a scap of irony, this shit makes me see the wonder and whimsy in just, being a human. An average, person going through their day-to-day, is a wondrous thing? That's amazing. And heteronormativity has stripped these experiences of their joy. Like you're right, wearing a basic girlypop skirt should make my heart sing. Why not? Why are these expressions lesser because they're normal? All this to say. Shoutout to all the basic bitches out there. Yes that polo shirt does make you look like a divorced golfer dad. Yes, that too is kind of a slay, now that I think of it.

[thought-begone]

I guess the real glorious evolution was the homoerotic yearning we made along the way

[clickityweasel]

had a real life "and everybody clapped" moment and im still reeling. spent the rest of the ride comparing butterfly pics with the old lady next to me trying to identify it

[fromcainwithlove]

author’s notes today: hey guys so just a warning there isn’t 100% explicit verbal consent even though they’re both really into it so remember this is FICTION, also they don’t use a condom :((( but in real life safe sex is important!!! please be safe out there everyone

a/n back in the day: kept thinking about ____ stabbing knives through both of _____’s hands to pin him in place while they fucked so here you go lol =P

[marlynnofmany]

If that doesn't have potential for some fairytale nonsense, I don't know what does.

[swan2swan]

Whoever conceived and animated this moment, I hope they're doing well and thriving. This is S-rank romance stuff here.

[roseworth]

i think theres this idea in the general public that the "best" fanfic gets turned into real books like 50 shades of grey. but the truth is that the best fanfic can never be published as an actual book because its intricately woven into the canon material so its inseparable even if you change the names

[feefal]

I had this vivid mental image of a moldy Miku and I could've sworn you drew it! Imagine my surprise when all I found was Miku mitosis. I thought for sure you drew her with mold spores all over :(

I haven't but now I think I have to... Miku must be hit with the Mold beam™