#but the people who share identities with these characters aren't

[kianamaiart]

how do you feel about people who aren't of the same race as that character voicing that character? Also since you work in the cartoon industry and have gone through the voice acting hiring process yourself, is there some sort of code that says its discrimination if you say "only people who fit into this group/all these groups should apply"? (asking this in good faith i hope it is clear. This is really hard to phrase. To make where I'm coming from more clear, while I doubt i would ever get the chance to do what you're doing, if this one comic I make was ever turned into a cartoon, its very important to me for example that the main character who is a non-binary Chinese-American Jew be portrayed by someone as close to that identity as possible. Because to me, there are limited chances for some people to portray themselves wholly on the screen, let alone at all, and to take that opportunity away would be wrong. And I just remember as a(n older) kid it made me even happier when i'd find out people voicing the rare characters who share parts of my identity actually WERE of that identity. But on the other hand, putting more and more restrictions means less and less people can audition and there is such a small chance the perfect person will even find the role. And also I'm not sure if this counts as discrimination in hiring legal code.

it's tricky for sure! in a perfect world, it shouldn't matter, but there's a history of marginalized people being, well, marginalized and denied work for usually white voice actors who can do an impression.

i think there should be a push to get more marginalized voice actors to voice characters like them but also characters that aren't! let actors be actors

You're right in that the more specific the identity, the smaller the pool of actors. and in that case, i think it's good to put in the effort to find people who identify with the role as closely as possible, even if it's not 100%. aika's black/japanese ethnicity, for example, is based off of my own heritage but she's played by anairis quinones, a black/puerto rican voice actor. i felt comfortable casting this way because i feel like at least on my end, i can write aika accurate to my own experience and make sure anything having to do with her identity is handled with care. and i very much trust anairis to understand! and although they're not japanese, they do have an understanding of what it means to be black and queer, which aika also is.

it's a case by case thing for sure but i'm always down to uplift marginalized actors!

[thousandyearphantombunker]

ah yes people who point out the misogyny and transphobia and fetishization of gay men and fandom toxicity (showing porn to minors, bullying people who dislike their preferred ships, death threats toward creators and voice actors, etc) and forced heteronormativity that fujoshi's engage in are clearly the same as the people who want to outlaw gay marriage.

(I'm chill with yaoi and it's fans but Fujoshis scare me)

Also yeah friendships are a thing and in general I like friendship. I like friends being friends (why yes I do prefer Kim and Ron and Star and Marco as friends- why does everything have to be romantic?) But I still respect people who do ship these things because unlike many Fujoshi's I don't need everyone to ship what I ship and I won't act entitled when a creator I like doesn't make my otp canon- (unless they've shown they are actually homophobic or transphobic etc and that's why the ships I like won't become canon- and then I'd just drop the media they made? Instead of acting like a psycho)

But nope. This autistic latina lesbian is clearly just an evil conservative.

Honestly I'm tired of this attitude- the whole 'everyone who criticized Steven universe were all just evil transphobic conservatives who hate immigrants and want Mexicans to mow their lawns' attitude

A lot of people who criticized su were gay or trans or black and were leftist etc

That doesn't necessarily mean that their arguments held any water (sometimes you'd hear a valid complaint but most of the time these people really just lacked media literacy) a lot of them (and I cringe when I say this) were SJWs who couldn't handle gay characters being anything less than pure and wholesome and hated the idea of nonviolence

Sometimes your own worst enemy are the people in your community who won't stop complaining/bashing other people in your community- and you need to call that shit out.

How many of us have seen a gay person go 'im gay but I'm not like those gays who are sexually active and like drag or whatever- ew' and reject almost every aspect of queer culture out of disgust because of moral purity nonsense how many of us have seen people within the autism community who go 'no autistic person is like Forrest Gump- we aren't stupid/we don't have low IQs or need diapers or need 24/7 care and blah blah'

These people are toxic and we need to call that shit out.

You are not a traitor for pointing it that people who share similar/same identities as yourself or people you share a community with are being toxic

And some of them did have very valid complaints (lots of stuff in season 1 like cool artifacts and temples etc just plain don't matter later in the series, everything being told from Steven's perspective causes massive issues, not everyone gets a satisfactory conclusion even by the time future rolls around etc)

(I'm a firm su defender BTW and will raise hell to defend that borderline masterpiece)

It's important to be critical and point out flaws within our communities. It's important to call out this shit.

It's always good when people within our communities point out toxic/abusive behaviors within our communities

I'm autistic and I will always call out people who deny the existence of people severely impaired by their autism

But it's easier to say that people who criticize your ships are homophobic and clearly evil trump supporters

It's easier to claim the gay guy who doesn't like a lot of aspects of queer culture a straight up homophobe rather than acknowledge they are probably either dealing with internalized homophobia/might even have valid complaints about the LGBTQ community (like the rampant biphobia and misogyny toward lesbians)

Its easier to call people who have autistic family members who have to be medicated to high hell and back and can't take baths by themselves ableist when they point out autism sometimes looks unaesthetic (even when they themselves are autistic)

Its easier to turn people within your own community into the 'other' or the enemy instead of acknowledging toxic aspects of your culture (whether they are criticizing the toxic aspect- like Catholics who criticize the homophobia they encounter in their community or are part of it being homophobic themselves) but it's not helpful

It's more helpful to acknowledge this shit than it is to label people who engage in the toxic bull as not actually being a part of your community- seriously wtf is this black and white thinking?

Its more helpful to be critical of your community and callout that shit (you are not a traitor for pointing out that some times gay people can be discriminatory or that many feminists are ableists) than it is to

Let the bad behaviors and issues fester out of control

You know how many trans men are uncomfortable with MLM centric fandoms because of Fujoshi's fetishizing them or acting like they are gross traps? How many gay men can also be put off by gay shit?

You know how many people are put off the rampant misogyny within fujoshi centric fandoms?

I'm not gonna criticize fujoshi's who are into rape fantasies

I'm not gonna criticize the ones who are into abuse fantasies

(we all have our kinks)

I'm gonna criticize the ones who act like people who aren't into that shit are prudes/pussies

(let me reiterate it's fine if your into these fetishes but you can't get pissy when not everyone likes it or when they criticize this stuff in stories- because while some writers know they are writing a technically problematic story that romanticizes this stuff on purpose for consenting adults to read other stories like ones aimed at kids accidentally glorify abusive relationships and rape by accident and that can mess up a kid)

I'm gonna criticize the ones who scare gay and trans men and bash female characters (because misogyny and transphobia and objectification are bad and Fujoshi's who do that shit deserve to be called out)

I'm gonna criticize the ones who show sexual content to minors and show kids unsafe media

I call out the Yuri community sometimes - shows like she ra promote a legitimately toxic couple to kids as something healthy and that's bad.

And I'm saying that as someone who is very into that shit (for adults only obviously I do not want kids getting into the shit)

You are not a traitor or evil for pointing out flaws within a community especially if it's your own

You cannot just pretend certain bad people in your community don't exist and are just made up by conservatives or ableists or whatever

His got kind of rambly but here's the tldr

Yaoi fans are cool but Fujoshis are often toxic (transphobic misogynistic etc) and we are allowed to call them out- that doesn't make us homophobes. Especially considering a lot of us are gay ourselves and proud of it

fandom antis/fujo haters 🤝 homophobic conservatives

"why do you have to make everything gay? just let men be friends"

[ladygrey7]

.

[unproduciblesmackdown]

when you're looking for that info about "is there a possible phil/orville romance" and get "though there isn't a, quote, romance between the two men...it's a marvelous pairing and i'm totally happy with there being homosexual overtones between the two"

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Regarding the post about Marinette being punished for trusting people and the response to it, this is something I always have trouble explaining because it sounds callous? But fictional characters aren't people. It's not that their lives just so happen to get in the way leading to something bad happened the writers decided that should happen, and it's important that you stop and ask WHY this happens. If the camera is "on" per se, people assume it's relevant and will tie into something larger. So like if the camera is on and all we see is Alya revealing her identity and then the result is she's outed in the same way she was in Heroes Day, the audience naturally concludes it's connected and thus realizes the lesson is either "Alya learns she shouldn't share her identity" OR "Marinette learns she shouldn't trust people" or both.

Secret identities are a great example of this phenomenon. We're NOT shown every time a villain's plan is foiled because they didn't know the heroe's identity, we ARE shown every time a heroe's identity causes friction in their lives. As such, large parts of the audience think of secret identites as inconveniences because that's what's shown (not just in Miraculous Ladybug, in tons of other shows)

Like you are supposed to make connections in Television about what's being shown to you that no one would make in real life (or at the very least no one SHOULD make in real life) because there's a limited space to tell the story and the audience is assuming the writers aren't wasting our time.

If these were real people it would be unreasonable to say because people have their own lives Marinette can't trust them, but in a story where Marinette is the main character who is explicitly always supposed that's. An accurate way to read the story!

And I also understand that this is a very boring construction if you're making headcanons or thinking about these characters! But that's a different lens, it doesn't make the broader writing lens invalid. You're speaking different languages at that point.

Anyway I hope that helps someone, that's my two cents

You summed it up perfectly! There's a ton of valid criticism to be had of Miraculous, but you can tell from the narrative framing that almost all of it comes down to writing choices and not things that are supposed to be seen as in-universe issues even though a lot of fans treat them as such. It's really weird to see things like people complaining about everything revolving around Marinette as if it's a personal flaw of hers and not the result of her being the main character in a fictional world. "Main Character Syndrome" literally pulls its name from the fact that this is how main characters work in a lot of media. It's a flaw when a real person does it, but in terms of story telling, it's extremely normal - and often good story telling - to have everything revolve around your main character or a core cast.

The issue with Miraculous is that they chose a lot of poor conflicts if they wanted Marinette to be the one and only main character, but that's not her fault. She didn't decide to have the rules around identities make no sense. The writers did. She didn't decide to make the main villain Adrien's dad while also keeping Adrien from being involved in the story. The writers did. The list goes on and on and, because none of it reflects badly on Marinette in the writers' eyes, the show doesn't act like Marinette is in the wrong. Remember, these are the same writers who think that Derision was a great episode that added depth to Marinette instead of destroying her character and making her look unhinged. Their judgement is clearly a little skewed.

While the writers love to make bad plot choices, they are generally using proper story telling language to make those choices, which is why I can tell you how characters' actions are intended to be read. The Rena Furtive and Nino example is a great one because it allows me to show that the writers do understand how to set things up. In fact, once they've decided that they're going to do a thing, they pretty much always set it up at a basic level. It's rarely spectacular and often frustrating, but it's never shocking.

In Rocketear, Alya promises Marinette that Nino will never learn about Rena Furtive. The episode then ends with her breaking that promise via the following exchange:

Alya: (sighs) I'm still Rena Rouge. (Nino gasps.) But now I'm in hiding and that's why Ladybug asked me not to tell anyone. Nino: But why are you telling me if no one's supposed to know? Is Ladybug cool with this? Alya: I can't hide it from you, because I love you, Nino, and we share everything.

Look at how this confession is presented. Look at what the dialogue focuses on. When Marinette confessed her identity to Alya, it was all about the confession and supporting Marinette. There was no discussion of this being a problem for Chat Noir or anything like that because - in the writers' eyes - that wasn't a problem for some reason. This is why Chat Noir almost instantly absolves Ladybug of blame once he finds out about the identity reveal (see: Hack-San.) The writers didn't want it to be an issue so it wasn't:

Ladybug: I'm really sorry, Cat Noir. I should've told you. I mean, if I found out that you told someone about your secret identity, I'd... probably be upset, too. I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings. Cat Noir: You didn't hurt my feelings. You did everything right

But when Alya confesses her identity to Nino, the conversation is not just about her confession. It's about her confession and how she's not supposed to do this. That's why Nino's response is not loving support. Instead, he asks if this is a good idea and if Ladybug knows.

These things are getting focused on because the writers are telling you that this is a bad thing. It's supposed to feel ominous. When I first watched Rocketear, I assumed that the season was going to end with Gabriel getting the fox off of Alya due to Nino because that was an obvious way to raise the stakes and they'd just heavily implied that Nino knowing would be a bad thing. I was, unfortunately, right. The only on screen consequence of Nino knowing is that he outs Alya to everyone in an incredibly forced series of events (see: Strikeback):

(Ryuko successfully prevents the Roue de Paris from hitting them, yet, it flies to the direction where Rena Furtive is. This causes Carapace to panic.) Carapace: Rena! (takes out his shield) Shell-ter! (Carapace's superpower successfully prevents the Ferris wheel from hitting Rena Furtive on top of the Tour Montparnasse. But the information of Rena Furtive's active status shocks the heroes, as well as Shadow Moth.) The heroes: Rena?! Shadow Moth: (from the top of the Eiffel Tower) She's still active?

Of course the Ferris Wheel goes straight for Alya's hiding spot and of course Nino screams her name before casting his power and of course the villain overhears it. It's all so forced and unnatural, which should make it glaringly obvious how much the writers wanted this to happen. This wasn't something they were kind of forced to do because it made sense for the narrative and they wanted to tell a good story. Instead, they wrote an awkward series of events because they really, really, really wanted Nino knowing to be a bad thing that outs Alya so that Marinette loses all of the miraculous even though none of this makes much sense.

How the hell did Gabriel hear Nino's shout from so far away? Is he able to overhear everything the heroes are saying? How does Nino even know that Alya is hiding there? And since when was a Ferris Wheel a threat to these guys? Your girlfriend is a magical girl and she's in her magical girl form, dude. You could drop a building on her and she'd be fine, a thing you have to know because this scene literally goes on to have Chat Noir go flying into a building, hitting it so hard the cement literally cracks, and no one really cares. I guess it's fine if Adrien is a punching bag, but Alya must be protected at all costs...

Anyway, while the above series of events was annoying, none of it was surprising. In fact, it would have all be perfectly predictable even if Alya outing herself was that treated as a more neutral event. Her choice leading to bad things falls perfectly in line with a truly bizarre running theme in the show: outing your identity to the person you love romantically is a bad thing that leads to bad consequences. That's why Chat Blanc and Ephemeral ended the world and why Nino knowing cost Ladybug the fox and why the character they call Joan of Arc has to give up her miraculous to be with her love and why the Kwami's have this absolutely asinine dialogue in Kwamis' Choice:

Plagg: Sugarcube! Having to force them to choose between love and their mission is just awful! Maybe Master Fu was wrong to choose them. Tikki: No, they’re made for each other. Love is what gives them their strength. Plagg: But the impossible part of that love is destroying them, and I know a thing or two about destruction. Tikki: (sighs heavily) What can we do? Plagg: We must free them of that impossible choice. We must… free them of us.

This is the voice of the author telling you that outing the identities is not and never will be a good choice for the love square. Never mind that Alya is allowed to know Marinette's identity or that Gabriel finding out is what actually ended the world in the alternate timelines or that Felix outted himself in public but is still wielding or that freaking Gabriel was allowed to know half of the temp heroes' identities while they were still actively wielding. For some reason, those things don't matter to the narrative, probably because romantic love wasn't involved. The "identity reveals are a bad thing" rule only seems to apply when romantic love is a key element to the point where it's a reoccurring theme in this supposed power of love show.

[mylight-png]

A while ago I was listening to Dara Horn's podcast relating to her book, People Love Dead Jews. Within this podcast she discussed the fact that Holocaust museums tend to center stories that highlight ways in which Jews were just like anyone else, putting secular Jews on a pedestal of sorts.

The podcast went on to make the point that we shouldn't have to be like them to be liked. A Jew in a kippah is just as worthy of being accepted as a Jew in a baseball cap, and to position one, the more assimilated one, as "better" is antisemitic.

This made me think of how movies and shows portray Jews, and I realized a similar pattern of idealizing assimilation is deeply prevalent.

There are two main ways Jews are portrayed in movies/shows that I've noticed that are problematic. (For a narrower scope I'll be discussing American media as I am more familiar with that than most other countries.)

The first kind of Jewish representation is the token Jew. This is the character that the viewer wouldn't even have known is Jewish had the show not casually mentioned them celebrating Hanukkah in passing. This is the character who is entirely the same as any other character. An example of this would be in Ginny and Georgia, where a few side characters are revealed to be Jewish. This reveal occurred only for the purpose of making a Hanukkah episode, and immediately one of the characters says the beginning words to most of our prayers, adding "bitch" at the end. This sort of absolutely blatant disrespect towards the words many of us wouldn't even speak fully in casual conversation is meant to indicate that it's okay to poke fun at our religion. (By the way, it isn't okay. Don't disrespect our religion, thanks.) (And no the actress wasn't Jewish.)

Then there's Ben Gross from Never Have I Ever, a similarly extremely assimilated Jewish character. Instead of making fun of Judaism, however, the show plays into Jewish stereotypes. Ben's dad is a wealthy influential lawyer who works with Hollywood. Come on, there's three in a row there. Ben himself is frequently made fun of for being very short (to an extent not befitting the actor's actual stature), and some of his mannerisms could be described as effeminate. All of these traits play into anti-Jewish stereotypes. The protagonist even says she wishes Ben was killed by Nazis and other than a scolding this isn't made to be the big deal that it is.

These sorts of characters are meant to show how Jews are "just like you!" and pokes cruel fun at the few remaining things that do occasionally set them apart. Yes, secular Jews exist, but the way these shows make fun of their Jewish identities is where the issue arises.

The second problematic representation is meant to make goyim feel good about being goyim. This is specifically done through how Judaism is portrayed in these movies.

A major example of this is the show Unorthodox, in which the plot centers a young girl trying to escape her very observant community. This show directly demonized the Jewish religion, making it appear inherently oppressive and twisted.

While some may argue that the show was merely trying to portray the social issues within the community, there are better ways to achieve this.

The book An Unorthodox Match takes on a similar task with a vastly different tone. The book centers a protagonist joining an equally observant community, but not for a moment does the book, author, or protagonist blame Judaism. The book is very clearly written by a Jew who loves Judaism, and yet it manages to highlight similar social issues to the show without blaming Judaism. In fact, Jewish traditions have a fair share of appreciation in the book!

This sort of media is meant to make the goyishe viewers be grateful they aren't part of those communities, but as a Jewish viewer I felt deeply uncomfortable with the positioning of religious Jews as a negative part of society. This media makes the characters seem like they have nothing at all in common with the goyim around them or the goyim watching the show. It's the polar opposite of the previous example.

The first example is showing Jews as "just like anyone else" until they aren't, while the second example portrays Jews as entirely other. Never have I seen an Orthodox Jewish character side by side with the non-Jewish characters in any other context than the Jewish character envying their non-Jewish peers.

Why is the choice either to be assimilated or othered? Why can we not have an observant Jewish character remind their friends that they can't hang out on Saturday, or maybe they bring their own kosher snacks? Maybe a Jewish character muttering a bracha over their food? Why not make being Jewish an important part of their character without making them self-loathe because of it?

Media almost only ever shows two extremes and neither of those extremes has a positive impact on the perception of Jews.

(There is also a pattern I've noticed with Jews and goyim being cast in Jewish roles and how that corresponds to the character, but that's probably another post for another time.)

[starlight-bread-blog]

How The Bond of Zuko and Katara Enhances the Themes of A:TLA

When a subplot is intertwined with a story’s core themes, it creates a more cohesive experience, resonating more profoundly with viewers. For this reason, a good writer must always aspire for a coherent narrative in all of its aspects. So, what are the themes of A:TLA, and how do Zuko and Katara fit into them? To answer that, I’m going to break down each theme and discuss how it relates to the pair.

On Destiny

Your destiny might be unexpected, controversial, but it’s yours. No one can take it away from you. In Lake Laogai, Zuko and Iroh shared the following exchange:

Even if people try, even if it isn’t acceptable to other people. Your identity will always be there, and you must make the choices that reflect your identity will always be there, because it’s your destiny. Near the series finale, in Sozin’s Comet Part 2, Iroh said:

“Sozin's Comet is arriving, and our destinies are upon us. Aang will face the Fire Lord.When I was a boy, I had a vision that I would one day take Ba Sing Se. Only now do I see that my destiny is to take it back from the Fire Nation,so the Earth Kingdom can be free again”.

In the end, everyone goes to their destinies. The destinies that they’re forging. Aang will spare the fire lord, Toph will use her metalbending to take down the airship, and Zuko and Katara will stand side by side against Azula. Who would have thought? Your destiny might be really surprising. No one could have guessed that Toph would invent metalbending, or that Aang would meet a lion turtle, or that Katara would stand by her former enemy’s side - by Zuko’s side.

Katara and Zuko’s closeness fulfill the show’s themes of destiny by being subversive and unexpected. They are fire and water, the daughter of the chief and the fire lord. Their friendship is rather odd, but it’s their destiny - not what was forced upon them. Moreover, their bond is subversive because it didn’t start as lovingly as it ended. Zuko and Katara were enemies, no one could have anticipated that they’ll grow close, but as I said, and the show said, destiny can come from an unexpected place.

On Diversity

Separation is an illusion as well as the four nations.

Zuko and Katara were not only enemies, from opposite sides of the war, but they were polar opposites – the Prince of the Fire Nation and the last waterbender of the small Southern Water Tribe, fire and water. However, all of these differences didn't matter for them to form a beautiful friendship. Because they're not actually separate, they're both kind empathetic people. They have much in common. The superficial predetermined differences aren't separation. They're one in the same.

Additionally, one will gain from learning about the other nations, or as Iroh put it:

Zuko and Katara leaning into their opposites ties into the theme. In fact, Zuko himself learned to redirect lightning from a waterbending technique.

On Redemption

Many characters in A:TLA were given a chance to redeem themselves. From Mai and Ty Lee redeeming themselves by betraying Azula near the end of the show to Iroh whose redemption has long ended before the story starts. A:tla firmly tells us that while the path to redemption can be long and hard, it’s a path worth paving and it’s yours to carve. Zuko’s redemption arc specifically is praised as one of the best redemption arcs in tv history.

A part of Zuko’s journey towards redemption is his interactions with Katara. Earning her forgiveness is his final step into integrating into the Gaang, and his final act of redemption is to jump in front of a lightning bolt for her. It’s significant that it’s Katara who represents these milestones in his arc. He redeems himself to everyone, but not in the same way as Katara. The path to redemption through Katara’s eyes is longer and ends with a bang.

On Morality

Black and white notions of the world are incomplete. The Fire Nation isn’t all evil, as seen in The Headband, their citizens are simply indoctrinated. And there can be band people on the other side of the war, such as Jet. Fire isn’t just destruction, it’s also healing and life. And the opposite of fire can be just as destructive, as seen in The Puppetmaster when Hama showcases her bloodbending. In 06×03 A\ang concludes the following:

“Anyone’s capable of great good and great evil.Everyone, even the Fire Lord and the Fire Nation have to be treated like they're worth giving a chance.”

When Zuko and Katara first met each other, they thought of each other as enemies and nothing more. Katara saw Zuko as his worst self and the manifestation of her hatred of the Fire Nation. In the Crystal Catacombs Katara described him as "the face of the enemy". She saw him as all black and no white, but then he opened up. They discover they actually have shared experiences despite being on opposing sides. When he betrayed her, it seemed to confirm that they're not similar, that everything Katara thought of Zuko was correct. Of course, he came back, but Katara can only forgive him once she lets go of some of her hatred of the Fire Nation. His connection to Katara proves that they’re both seeing the world as shades of gray.

—————————

In conclusion, the profound connection between Zuko and Katara enhances the themes of the show and their connection is a perfect example of the messages it’s trying to put out. Rather it’s about destiny, morality, diversity or redemption, Zuko and Katara’s relationship is remains one of the most relevant examples of these themes in the show.

[ramayantika]

I woke up just now but in half asleep summer nap state I will roll for Heermandi

1. I felt that Alamzeb's casting could be better. The girl was pretty but yet I could not feel the budding romantic expressions on her face and body language. Like that sharmana and poetry narration felt very forced.

2. TAJDAR WHY WHY WHY SLB I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU. No spoilers. Tajdar is very charming, amazing voice, very handsome.

3. Okay considering the history of tawaifs I was at times so mad at Alam and was about to hit the phone screen to say woman wake up to reality.

4. Lajjo and Zorawar's story. Why he left her, her addiction and Lajjo's story could have been explored more. You have such a brilliant actress and when SLB is noted for using actors and their character to their greatest potential, I felt he did not not do that with lajjo this time. We only see her enter in sakal ban, she is always drinking and thinking about Zorawar

5. Manisha was brilliant. The ruthlessness, the wit and slyness. And for a tawaif of those times whose existence and power is constantly challenged, by other tawaifs and rivals and then nawabs and British she has to be so clever, cunning and vicious. Yet her feelings for Alam especially by the end (spoiler free) did make me understand her stony heart more.

6. Aditi as Bibbo was charming, graceful and elegant. And goddamn the way she uses her skills to charm henderson so she may help her people to fight against the British.

7. Star villain Fareedan. I was looking forward to her schemes. And it was understandable why she hates Mallikajaan (manisha). The power play, the constant challenging was interesting to watch. Also sonakshi really acted well, both as Fareedan and as Rehana aapa. I won't say much because the way her character changed at a point where mallika was violated (watch the series for that) like it made me get an overview of these women. Women who were wronged since birth, clinging on to their art and performance, carving a distinct identity for themselves and yet having pride over who they are, and despite all the politics, inner enmity and betrayals, they still did not wish the worst to each other and later come together for they all share one pain.

8. The women if heeramandi coming together to fight for the British got me goosebumps. They decide to use all their money and life to fight for the country. Aditi's (bibbo) dialouge ek baar mujrevali nahi mulkvali bannke sochiye and another dialouge which meant that when the country is burning one does not organise lavish gatherings (mujra mushayra)

9. Songs were pretty good. Sakal ban was trending and I loved the other songs too. Reminded me of Pakeezah

10. Sanjeeda Shaikh as Waheeda. Bhai I used to feel so bad for her. She was betrayed everytime. Poor girl wanted power too like her sister but I understand why she wasn't given. Tawaifs cannot be put into a box. They aren't your gentle shy lover girl type women like we see in pakeezah, the lovely shy, sweet, pure sahibjaan. Their world is a golden cage and to survive here is a war fought everyday.

11. Tajdar ka baap kya gadha egoistic aadmi hai

12. End thoughts: aesthetics = 100/10. I was still looking for slb to explore more of their emotions and life and not just their opulence. Summing up everything, heermandi: 7/10

[wingedshadowfan]

i have an arcane take i want to share (hopefully i won't get boo-ed off stage)

i think many of us can agree that the piltover/zaun conflict is an analogy of institutionalized racism and police violence, and to an extent specifically how those manifest themselves in ghettos - concepts i would argue are unique to america (and some other colonizer countries if we're being generous) and can be easily understood and related to by an american audience, which is arguably who the show is pandering to

but arcane is a fantasy show w/ sci-fi and magical elements, and real life racism doesn't easily transfer over to a made-up magical steampunk world where a bunch of the characters aren't even human (think heimerdinger, the gaseous form robot counselor, or even lest, steb and scar who are humanoid but also not the human species), where pink, blue and white hair are natural traits, where the historical and cultural origins of the societal perception of race, poc and racism are absent (or at least to us as viewers)

for these reasons, the piltover/zaun conflict has to rely on something else to make sense, and it does: it's a broader, more universal conflict based on origin (born in the undercity vs born in piltover, zaunite vs piltovian), not race - and in this way origin isn't simply correlated w/ the own identity, quality of life and the class struggle characters born in zaun face, i'd argue it's a pretty good predecessor for those

this leads a lot of fans to see the show, the characters and their behavior through an americanized/post-colonizer lense, and apply those same standards and ideologies to arcane - despite the oppression, class conflicts and revolution attempts actually portrayed not being the uniquely american institutionalized racism and police violence, which leads to people making statements such as

"mel is not an oppressor because she's a migrant/because she's black" (she's on the counsel which makes her part of the ruling class - the only 'minority' she's a part of lol, she was put there by her mother who literally sieged piltover and took control of it, she's the richest person in piltover, she hasn't exactly been doing anything to address the situation in zaun and in fact, her desire for piltovian progress was one of driving forces for the growth of the disparities betw zaun and piltover - so what abt her exactly makes her not an oppressor?)

thinking caitlyn was white bcuz she is an oppressor (and i don't want to get into the nitty gritty of whether she actually is an oppressor or not bcuz i will be grilled for my thoughts, but she clearly has asian features and so do her parents and predecessors, and i'm sorry but same as w/ mel "asian"/"black" is not a thing in arcane, as evident by race not being inherently interconnected with class, education, job, discrimination, etc but guess what seems to be a good determinant of those? the undercity origin) and generally misinterpreting her character and missing the fact she barely has any confirmation bias despite being rich and sheltered

not understanding why vi became an enforcer or why she and caitlyn were enforcers in the first place in league lore if "enforcers were always going to be evil in the show" (have you ever wondered why not every country in the world graffiti sprays acab on walls, calls their police pigs or asks for he police to be defunded? maybe bcuz law enforcement isn't backed up by institutionalized racism everywhere around the world, and this isn't to say it doesn't have other issues in other countries btw)

similarly to the previous point^, ignoring ekko's second line to caitlyn "silco pays them to do it" as a follow up to "your people hunt us like animals"

seeing vi and jinx as revolutionaries (which neither ever was ideologically or in their actions, except jinx in some zaunites' eyes) and ignoring the fact that jinx took part in terrorizing and oppressing the undercity under silco's command, killed firelights, also gassed piltover and committed multiple acts of domestic terrorism bcuz as far as we know, zaun is a part of piltover

glorifying the aesthetic of revolution through chaos and violence without any framework of how the objectives of change can be achieved

imo america is a relatively young country and europe, esp south-eastern europe, has a way longer history of non-race based oppression, uprisings and similar more applicable concepts - but ofc, likely no historians (or europeans from that region) were consulted in the making of a show meant to rack up downloads of a video game that only used the piltover/zaun conflict as a setting, not as its plot

so yeah. the piltover/zaun conflict was inspired by a conflict based on race that virtue signals and panders to american viewers but it doesn't actually portray one or mirror its relevant characteristics bcuz of the universe/genre, which leads to a lot of misunderstandings and wrong interpretations, as well as insufferable fandom discourse on racism and oppression

[dearmyloveleys]

;-; i just wanted to say ty for all your posts in the fof tag. now i'm thinking about ying lei and his yeye ying zhao... and now there is no one left to guard the mountain, but ying lei died in the same way as ying zhao, saving people he cares about

Don’t mention it! I blorb too much about things I really like it embarrasses me at times. I’m just glad you like my takes!! Anyway:

😭😭😭😭 this drama exists to hurt us,, I think more than dying for people he cares about (because nearly everyone who died did that), Ying Lei's characterisation and death provides a unique but tragic pov within the main cast

Ying Lei my poor Ying Lei. We don’t really talk too much about him don’t we. So let’s just talk all about him. CHARACTER ANALYSIS TIME YAY

Ying Lei is unadulterated sunshine and has a good heart. Morally, he is on the same page as the rest of the team. Yet, it absolutely breaks my heart that his fate is to be an outsider within the thematic concern of choice in FoF and resultingly, in the narrative.

His place in the overarching thematic concerns of FoF is unclear when we first meet him - he is simply a wandering half mountain god half demon with a bright disposition. But as with many characters in FoF, their appearances aren't just for naught. Ying Lei's representative theme - the freedom of choice and the ability to choose one's identity - finally shows itself in one of the most beautifully written (am biased) episodes of the series, Episode 17, which is all about choice.

In this episode, Ying Lei vents his displeasure of the Wilderness towards grandpa Ying Zhao

"I hate this place. I hate the Wilderness. It's so bleak and desolate. (…) If I have to stay here forever, I'd rather die. (…) I like the mortal world. I like everything that is vibrant and lively."

To which grandpa Ying Zhao gives him his blessing to head to the Mortal Realm,

"…as your grandfather, I respect your decision. You can be a Mountain God or an ordinary person."

His next sentence cements the plight of many demons (and humans) we encounter in the story,

"For many demons in the Wilderness, their lifelong dream is just three simple words… Have a choice."

These three words all the more juxtaposes Ying Lei's freedom to choose his identity, against every other character who faces this fate of not having a choice.

The Lie Demon, unable to say her true feelings until her moment of death, and Fei, who shares similar sentiments as Ying Lei about the mortal world,

"I'm a beast of calamity, I don't deserve to live in the mortal world. But I really like the bright lights, the liveliness and happiness, and the prosperity here." (Ep 13)

And Zhao Yuanzhou, where even in the same Episode 17, echoes Ying Lei's words,

"If this world gave me life to be manipulated by malicious energy, then I'd rather die."

Same words, but a different way out. Or there isn't one at all.

Ying Lei is the only one whose fate hasn't been carved out in stone for him. Even after Ying Zhao's death, he is still able to leave Kunlun Mountain and rejoin the team because he has the support of other Mountain Gods watching over the temple. He is by no means a pampered and spoiled person but he swims in a wealth of freedom. His bubbly, charming and affectionate personality is a physical manifestation of his unburdened self, unbeholden to any ending, except for the one that he wants.

And yet, he chooses a life with the group of people who never have had the option to choose what and who they want to be. Wen Xiao, the Baize Goddess; Zhao Yuanzhao, the vessel of malicious energy; Bai Jiu, determined to bring his mother back; Pei Sijing, the forced breadwinner of her family's martial heritage. To show his determination to be with this group, he never again dons the mature get-up (full sleeved robes and long hair) - his representation of maturing and accepting his responsibility as a Mountain God - after returning back to the Mortal Realm. Rather, he dons the get-up he first roamed the Mortal Realm with (or similar), metaphorically putting aside all that celestial burden in exchange for the friends that he desires. Just who in the group can as easily shed their very roots and history? His precious freedom to choose ironically makes him the outsider in a group whose only wishes are to be able to choose.

He gets along with the team, but no matter how many times he ties the knot of fate around them, these people were never his fate to begin with. Fate found the rest of them and demanded they be bound. Ying Lei wrestles that rope of fate, trying to get in, albeit with rejection. The narrative demonstrates this:

The team was initially formed without him, and he joined later them of his own accord - his own choice - while the others literally were forced to sign a death contract to be together. In the later episodes, his affection for Bai Jiu is often overshadowed by Bai Jiu's respect for Zhuo Yichen. He also continually tries to get both Bai Jiu and Zhuo Yichen's approval - head pats, anyone? Zhao Yuanzhou doesn't trust him to look after the dragon scale. In their conversation with Bing Yi, their team count is five, instead of six. His closest companions within the team are each other's confidants.

Even at his very end, the narrative still denies him a fate with them. He dies for Bai Jiu who is the only person he loves wholly, and fades away before Bai Jiu wakes from his coma. Neither gets to say goodbye. Bai Jiu who genuinely mourns his death, dies for Yichen. In a story where the cyclical nature of fate runs deep, there is no thread of fate that leads back to him. There is no resolution or reciprocation for Ying Lei's soul and sacrifice. Every thread is cut and never retied, no matter how he tries. Siheng has Sijing left to remember him. Yichen keeps Baijiu close to his heart. Wen Xiao and Yichen wait for Zhao Yuanzhou to return. But no one truly reminisces Ying Lei. The only people to do that are dead.

Ying Lei's tragedy lies in his freedom to choose. In a world where most fate is predetermined and choice is a scarcity, his death is all the more painful as every act is a conscious choice toward an unknown end. He carries a burden after all - the burden of writing his own story. And he braved each step with that brilliant smile of his.

我爱这个世界更多 又如何 So what if I love this world even more? 越平凡越长久 The more ordinary it is, the longer it lasts 月亮跟着我点头 The moon nods along with me 简简单单入梦的人最温柔 Those who step into dreams simply are the gentlest 分不清眼泪和酒 真让人挠头 This inability to distinguish between tears and wine, really makes one scratch their head 月亮和小狗默默跟我走 The moon and a puppy walk with me in silence 岁月从不停留 Time never stops once 少年也不回头 This youth also never turns back 他把故乡和爱留在身后 He leaves behind both his hometown and love

- 英雄不磊落 (Heroes Are Not Upright) | Ying Lei's Theme

[heyitstitz]

as a trans NSFW artist, the amount of NSFW image-sharing websites which are transphobic and intersexist is too fucking high.

rule34.xxx recently changed the tags of trans_man and trans_women to things like "male_with_vagina" or "female_with_dick"; or they will outright be replaced with derogatory terms/slurs used against intersex people.

their reasoning is that what the original source says, and that what the artist says is "unimportant". they're hiding under the guise that "the mere act of undergoing a sex change does not prove that a character feels that their gender conflicts with their sex."

meaning, even if the original story says that the character is trans- even if the ARTIST THEMSELF *TAGS* THE POST AS ONE OF THE CHARACTERS BEING TRANS- they are considered to be INCORRECT in rule34.xxx's eyes.

on rule34.xxx, no character is allowed to be trans. many, many, MANY NSFW image-sharing websites are the same. Trans Men and Trans Women are not taggable options. However, intersexist slurs are. If you try to tag a post as "trans_man" or "trans_woman", they will instead be changed to something transphobic or intersexist.

this shouldn't be a conversation we should be having. Just because dysphoria isn't needed to be trans doesn't mean NSFW art of trans people should have the transness removed.

Stop ignoring the artists. Stop ignoring canonical queerness. Let trans characters exist in porn. We are not a fetish. We are not a fictional concept for sexual fantasies. We are goddamn people who have fought for way too fucking long to be considered people. We are STILL fighting to be considered people. When we can't even tag our identities in NSFW art, HOW is that considered "trans-inclusive"?

So yeah. If anybody has any alternative websites I can use which aren't transphobic and intersexist (and that arent twitter), feel free to tell me.

Also, as I am not intersex, I would love to hear the opinions of some intersex people. Everybody affected deserves to have a voice in this matter.

[littlecrittereli]

Random WK Headcanon dump

Here's a silly list of headcanons I have about team Wild Kratts, in no particular order other than what comes into my head first:

Heights:

Martin and Chris are based off their real heights and I filled everyone else in based off how they look standing next to each other. I exaggerated Aviva and Koki's height a little bit, just for some variety.

Koki is the tallest at 6' (182.9 cm)

Martin is 5'10 (177.8 cm)

Jimmy is 5'9 (175.3 cm)

Chris is 5'8 (172.7 cm)

and Aviva is the shortest at 5'3 (160 cm)

Reference:

Ages:

Martin is definitely the oldest at 25

Aviva is 24

Jimmy and Koki are both 23, Jimmy being a few months older

And Chris is runner up at 21

The reason for the small age gap is because Martin was ultimately the person that put together the Tortuga team when he graduated college, and he picked students that were also close to graduation at the time. Chris would have just been starting college, but would join them upon graduation because of his connection through Martin. Other freshmen at the time would not have qualified for the research grant.

Birthdays!!!

Martin: Dec 23rd (he's a capricorn)

Aviva: Nov 4th (She's a scorpio)

Jimmy: April 20th (He's a taurus)

Koki: August 27th (She's a virgo)

Chris: July 19th (He's a cancer)

Identities:

(Disclaimer this is referring to the fictional Wild Kratts animated characters ONLY. Not the actual people they are based on.)

Martin: he/him, bisexual. But his preference is women.

He's probably had a handful of girlfriends and a couple of boyfriends throughout high school and college, but unfortunately had too big of ambitions to settle down with anyone.

Aviva: she/her, bisexual. She doesn't have a preference.

She has probably been on like... 2 dates max. She has always been much more focused on her education and bettering her inventions than dating. Her only standard for a partnership is someone who can keep up with her intelligence. Or at least someone she can learn from and grow with.

Jimmy: he/him, straight.

He literally does not care, but he would probably kiss a man if the opportunity arose. Had a girlfriend in kindergarten and they spoke twice, but since she moved schools and they never officially broke up, he's still technically off the market.

Koki: she/they lesbian. SHE LIKES WOMEN

tried to date a man. regretted it. Has probably been in a couple semi-serious relationships, but didn't work out for various reasons. She's content to focus on her career for now but someday would love to be a mom.

Chris: he/they aroace

only proclaimed to have a crush on a girl in high school because everyone else was talking about crushes and he didn't want to feel left out. Doesn't really like to be touched in general. Would rather cut off his hand than be forced to hold someone else's in a non platonic way. When someone has a crush on him, he does not know how to respond so he literally just ignores them.

Silly Stuff:

-As a zoologist, Martin knows more about animal behaviors, classification, and identification. Meanwhile, Chris as a biologist knows more about the anatomy and general science of animals. For example, Martin would be able to explain the reasoning behind a firefly's glow while Chris would be able to explain the chemical reaction that makes the glow possible. And they are constantly sharing and learning from each other as well.

-Chris has glasses, he just doesn't really use them very often. They would get in the way of creature adventuring so he only wears them if he's reading or something. They aren't super crucial, it just helps with small words.

-Game nights are VERY serious on the Tortuga. Jimmy is suspiciously good at card/board games. He pretty much always wins. It's to the point where everyone else is on a team against him. Sometimes he lets them win and it has sent the entire team into a fight. Sorry has been banned in the Tortuga because of this.

-Koki's a huge theatre nerd. She participated in plays recreationally throughout high school, and will often hum or sing while she's doing a task.

-Martin plays the guitar and has a mediocre singing voice. It's nothing spectacular but he can carry a tune. Sometimes when the Tortuga is parked somewhere remote for the night, they will make a campfire and sing a few songs.

-Aviva has roller skates built into her shoes (SIDE NOTE: This is something we see very often in season 1 but they seemed to have forgotten about it??? or retconned it??? BUT I HATE IT BECAUSE THEY WERE SO COOL PLEASE BRING BACK THE ROLLER SKATES)

-Martin is a terrible driver. (The oldest sibling curse) He knows he's a terrible driver, but pretends he's not. Chris will usually try to take the driver's seat to prevent Martin from driving, but sometimes Martin beats him there. Will deflect any evidence of him being a bad driver. "That curb shouldn't have been there" Someone please revoke his license, he's a danger to society.

-Jimmy is definitely the best cook out of all of them. He makes food for the team most of the time, unless they are on a longer flight and he has to pilot. Koki and Chris are pretty competent chefs "Just read the recipe it's not that hard". Martin's basically limited to ramen noodles and microwave mac and cheese. Aviva, try as she might, can NOT cook. She will BURN water. (she always overcomplicates the recipes by trying to utilize an invention or something)

-Koki likes to crochet. She likes to keep her hands busy so whenever she's doing a rather boring task, like monitoring for bad weather/villains while the bros are out, she crochets.

-Jimmy gets insane jet lag, and since they are bouncing from different time zones all the time, he can never really catch up. Not to mention he has to stay up for irregular hours to fly the Tortuga. This is why he's always napping, and why the others usually leave him alone to sleep unless it's important.

[jordanrosenburg]

After watching the “Quiet On Set” documentary, I can’t help but feel like there are literally no good people in the entertainment industry. Even the “good” ones aren’t good. It solidifies that we don’t actually know anything about them. We only know who they present as to the media. 

I think like most people around my age, we grew up watching Nickelodeon during its golden age. I always looked forward to watching “All That” not only because it was funny, but because it was something I could watch with my older siblings. It was something the four of us could laugh together about. My sister and I still laugh over the bit from “Keenan and Kel” where Kel admits to dropping the screw in the tuna. So many iconic characters and television shows were created at the hands of Dan Schneider. 

What else was created at the hands of Dan Schneider were countless acts of abuse, harassment, manipulation, and much more. His sets were homes to child sexual abusers. Adults who are around children each and every day, taking advantage of their trust and innocence, grooming them and harming them physically and mentally. 

It’s not easy for victims of abuse to speak up. Many aren’t believed. Reliving trauma is a horrific experience, so I commend each and every person who shared their story for this docuseries. There were previous cast members who aren’t as well known who got to share their truths, there were crew members sharing stories about Dan’s harassment and sexism on set. There were many crew members that felt uncomfortable about the scenes they were shooting, but no one spoke up. Dan had so much power at Nickelodeon because he kept churning out hit after hit after hit. The parents weren’t much better, but I’ll come back to that. 

The docuseries revealed three adult men who were caught for child pornography, and for sexually abusing children. One man’s name is Brian Peck. He groomed Drake Bell for years. Joe Bell, Drake’s father, did everything he could to keep Brian away from Drake because he knew something just wasn’t right with how Brian acted around his son. Brian eventually convinced Drake to fire his father as his manager, and let his mother take over. This gave Brian the room to drive Drake to and from auditions, take him to Disneyland with him and his friends, and more. Drake Bell revealed in the documentary that Brian Peck sexually assaulted and abused him for years. Since Drake was a minor when it started, his identity was kept secret.

During the trial, many people wrote letters for Brian Peck, attesting to his character: James Marden, Taran Killam, Alan Thicke, Thomas DeSano, Ron Melendez, Rider Strong, and Will Friedle. Some of these names are extremely surprising, and others aren't at all.

Joanna Kerns saying, "there must have been some extreme situation or temptation exerted on him to influence is actions" at the time, and is now saying "I have now learned that my letter of support was based on complete misinformation.

Knowing what I know now, I never would have written the letter". For me, it's not even about her writing the letter, it's about her blaming Drake Bell, the victim, and child in the situation, as if Brian Peck wasn't a grown man who should have known better.

Kimmy Robertson also wrote victim blaming language in her letter of support for Brian Peck.

Rich Correll wrote, "it would be my pleasure to work with him again". And then he did! Brian was allowed to work on The Suite Life! Correll later said, they had no input or involvement in the casting". He also went on to say that, "Mr. Peck simply replied that 'the problem had been solved'".

The series went on from there, explaining how Dan’s behaviors just got worse and worse, and he “flew too close to the sun”. The inappropriate sexual innuendo bits on his shows happened more and more frequently. This included constant closeups on actors’ feet, many of the young female actresses being forced to be squirted in the face with various liquids to represent “money shots”. Ariana Grande probably had it the worst in that she had to film videos that went directly to YouTube, many of which included her biting her own toenails, squeezing a potato until juice squirted out of it, etc. Just absolutely disgusting things that do not make sense for a CHILDREN’S television show. These weren’t jokes for kids. This was Dan Schneider abusing his power, and seeing how much he could get away with. 

It wasn’t until Jeanette McCurdy’s mother died that Nickelodeon finally launched an investigation into Dan Schneider. Jeanette talks about this in her book, “I’m Glad My Mom Died”, which was a heart wrenching read, but well worth it. Jeanette returned to work a WEEK after her mother died from a long battle with cancer. Because of the backlash she got for that, Nickelodeon realized that it was the culture Dan created that probably made Jeanette feel like she had to come back, that she couldn’t take more time off. 

All Nickelodeon did was remove Dan from his sets, and made it so he could only watch from his office and give notes from there. Even though he wasn’t physically on set, the toxic and hostile environment was still alive and well because he was still watching everyone’s every move. 

Thanks to #MeToo, more and more women started speaking up about their experiences on set with Dan Schneider. And then in 2018 Nickelodeon finally kicked Dan Schneider to the curb after launching another investigation based off the new claims. The investigation didn't reveal proof of sexual abuse, but it revealed more cases of harassment of his actors and his crews.

Child stars are often made fun of and exploited by the media as they transition into adulthood. We watch their mental health decline until they’re caught having a breakdown. People point and laugh, and say it’s just another child star who couldn’t handle life as a grown up. But what I think a lot of people don’t understand is that many child stars are forced into the entertainment business. Parents put their financial burdens on their children, tell them they need to work to support the family. That’s a lot of pressure to put on a child. So, if something bad is happening on a set, a kid is going to be too afraid to speak up because they could be fired, and if they’re fired, then they’re not making money for their families. The parents are supposed to be on set and with the kids at all times. But so many turn the other cheek and don’t speak up because they don’t want to risk their kids getting fired. 

It just feels like no adults, not even the ones you’re meant to trust, are safe to be around. In some way, shape, or form these kids get abused. Whether it’s sexual abuse, racism, inflicted eating disorders, or other types of mental abuse, they’re not safe. No one is looking out for them. Everyone is more concerned with making money. 

The entertainment industry squeezes the youth dry and tosses them aside when they can’t legally control them anymore. And we wonder why so many of them have a tough time later on in life. The lucky ones are helped through therapy, and the not so lucky ones either turn up dead, broke, abused, or end up abusing others as they were abused. 

I am feeling very sad and heartbroken. And I’m not sure where to go from here. So many of these shows have brought me comfort and laughs over the years. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to enjoy them again. Is it okay to sit and watch reruns or should we be boycotting everything? I want to help in the ways that I can, but I also know that the world will stop caring about this in a week or so when the next big truth bomb about something else is dropped. 

People who have no moral conscious, people who are okay letting children be hurt for the sake of their own wallets shouldn’t have any power. And I hope everyone involved in hurting these kids, past and present, is forced to answer for what they did. I hope they’re shamed and cancelled and doxxed and everything else bad that can happen to people like them. I hope they go broke and become ruined. And at this point, I hope Nickelodeon just crashes and burns. They don’t deserve any salvation. 

[krunklys]

Why Batcest is a Thing

I was talking with my friend the other day and while she's not a batcest shipper, she asked me why I was. I said that I don't think I take it to the same extremes some other people do, a few things that aren't a personal favorite of mine would be any of the REALLY younger kids with Bruce or say Dick and Damian. It's mostly the age gap that gets to me.

But she asked why I liked JayTim and I had a time explaining it to her and I wanted to bring it here as a sort of explanation, I suppose for people who might not enjoy batcest ships.

first of all, the name. Batcest is... an interesting name. A lot of arguments you'll come across is that they're not actually related, or there are some fanfics out there for aus where one of them (most commonly Tim or Jason) were never apart of the Batfamily in the first place. Of course, there are some where they are! Because, at the end of the day, in Canon they do share a family. But the implication of it being incest can be a real no no for people, even if it's not. Dick wasn't adopted into the family for quiet some time (I think he was adopted around the same time Tim was but I'm not a 100% sure, not to mention he acted as his ward and then aged out of it), Jason was adopted but after his return to life has regularly denied his part in the family (Look at literally any Red Hood Comic, though I do prefer to look at the New 52 Red Hood and The Outlaws for his feelings towards Bruce and the Wayne's in general), Tim was adopted but was later emancipated (in Red Robin), and Damian has a blood relation to Bruce only. Morally, there can be a problem with it but for mow shippers, since this is fiction, the lack of blood relation means there's no problem. Remember! They're not real people. Adoptive relationships, or pseudo familial ones, they don't see these relations as any reason to not ship them! And in later points, I go into why. And if people really had a problem with this pseudo familiar relationships, take for example Tim and Jason who have never once lives under the same roof nor have any legal connection to each other through Bruce, then on principal alone they should have a problem with Cassandra and Stephanie - Cass is adopted by Bruce, yes, but Bruce has also claimed Stephanie as part of the family and includes her in family talks. Does that not make them family members? No. They're friends or girlfriends, depending on how you want to interpret them.

Secondly, the canon relationships that any of the Bats have with their partners. I could go through all of them and explain the nuance of the relationships but I'll simplify for the sake of the post. In Bruce's sake, whether it be Talia or Selina or for the more fanon ones like Clark and Min Khoa (i think that's how you spell that, I'm not sure though!), there's no denying that in Canon these relationships don't pan out. Talia and Bruce have moral problems, even if she was originally a spy and didn't kill, and Selina and Bruce have an entire history of problems. For Dick, himself and Barbara are much of the same. A sweet beginning until something comes in to ruin it and they break up. Take, for example, the newest Nightwing run (on webtoon and not technically canon, i know). Barbara breaks up with Dick because she feels disconnected from him and like he's still preforming for her, but they have no conversation about this prior to it. With Kori, I'm not as knowledgeable about why they broke up, all I know is that they did and it was ugly. Another example is Tim! Himself and Stephanie didn't work out because she couldn't trust him, due to now knowing his identity, and then she faked her death, causing the distrust between them both. These are only a few examples of how relationships work out for Bats and in my personal opinion I think it's because of a ack of understanding for the characters, their love interests I mean. And in fanon, partners for Batfamily members tend to be washed down - Kon acts as an emotional crutch for Tim, Roy has morals he simply does not stand with anymore in Canon in JayRoy fics, Barbara is an anecdote in DickBarbara fics, and Selina is barely featured in Bruce fics. Not to mention the simple lack of wlw fics in the fandom that aren't background.

Due to this, the shipping of Batfamily members together is only natural. The characters share similar morals or in the case of Tim have such complicated morals that in fandom you can pick and choose what to use. They're fleshed out, have a canon relationship with multiple layers to it, and complete each other in many ways. In comparison to some of the fandom favorite ships like SuperBat or BirdFlash, where we only see a two dimensional aspect of their relationship recently, then the shipping of characters like Jason and Tim or Tim and Dick together is a natural conclusion to reach.

And Finally, History and old characteristics. It was mentioned before in another post that I'll try to hunt down for you guys and link in a repost because it will be WORLDS better than what I could write and have much more research thrown into it than this does, but originally there were a lot of implications under their relationships, specifically Bruce and Dick. Wardships programs were used by a lot of gay people when gay marriage was illegal, so were adult adoptions. It was to have a legal connection in whatever way possible. And I think in a really old comic, Dick has a dream where he's living in the manor as an adult still with Bruce. Bruce has a portrait of them together. They eat breakfast together in their pajamas or underwear, and spend all their time together. Batman regularly saves Robin over civilians and for his relationships, sometimes they wouldn't work out simply because of Dick. It worked this way for many Superheroes and their sidekicks in the "golden age" of comics! Batman has always had queer undertones since his creation but adding Robin into the mix just proved this. Like it or not, Bruce and Dick had sexual and romantic implications to their relationship since the character was first introduced in the 40s.

As for Old characteristics, in the New 52 i feel as though some of the characters have been washed down do their base characteristics. They lack depth in a way some characters don't or in a way some do, particularly in fanon. Dick's possessive originally and I see people talking about his anger issues as a child a lot, especially in comparison to Jason's Robin run, but either way - the characters have changed throughout the years. That doesn't mean that people can't cling on to their old relationships or even their old personalities. People are so fond of making Jason insane and crazy and Hella mean when in recent adaptations, he's a normal vigilante for all intents and purposes. He's not even a crime lord anymore, I'm pretty sure he still owns the Iceberg Lounge. That's all to say that the boys used to be a lot closer than they are now, especially Tim and Dick and Dick and Bruce.

The conclusion to my explanation to her is that batcest is much of the same as any other ships - picking and choosing what to take from canon to put two people together into a relationship that you like. It's a work of fiction and while that's important to remember, it doesn't say anything about you in real life! you don't enjoy real life incest if you like JayTim. That's all to say si that there's reasons behind it that some people like and some people don't. She wasn't swayed by my answer but accepted it since she couldn't deny that the Batfamily has been explored on and their relationships together so much more than their relationships with anyone else, canon or fanon.

[cripplecharacters]

I know we (disabled people) aren't a monolith and all that, we'll all have different opinions on what is and is not offensive, but I want to ask if you can explain your opinion on cosplaying a disabled character a little more, because I don't really understand how portraying a character accurately, disabilities included within reason, would be offensive. I could see the use of an aid that other people could be actually making use of being harmful, and I can see not treating the disability in a respectful manner by making a joke of them being harmful, but as far as the inclusion of scar to cosplay a canonically scarred character goes, I feel like excluding them seems more offensive to me, it feels like erasure of the character's disability. If for example someone cosplayed a character I made that I was using to portray my own disabilities, and the cosplayer didn't include those disabilities when they could do so, I'd find that really insulting and hurtful. I guess it feels like too nuanced of a topic for a blanket This Is Good or This Is Bad answer if that makes sense? Sorry if this comes across as antagonistic or hostile, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just want to understand your perspective.

Hey, I'm fully aware that there are a lot of opinions going either way (from "literally everything is fine" to "abled people shouldn't cosplay disabled characters at all no matter what"). I did a longer reply about the same thing in this ask that maybe will explain some of it better. There are also opinions of other mods on this in our #cripping up tag.

I don't consider not including a character's disability in cosplay as erasure, since to me it's just dressing up as a character with your own body and all. I think everyone should be able to cosplay everyone regardless of what their "factory settings" are, just don't pretend to be a minority that you aren't a part of in your normal life. I see pretending to have a disability for "character accuracy" as more offensive, your canvas for cosplay is yourself and if you don't have that disability then you just don't and that's completely fine. For the sake of not being accidentally insensitive I won't be making comparisons to other kinds of "pretending to be a minority for cosplay", especially since most other examples would be much worse anyway. To me, this whole practice is just... unnecessary. Work with what you have the same way disabled cosplayers shouldn't cover their disabilities when cosplaying abled characters.

I see your example of a potential cosplayer not including the disability in a character that you have made. I make disabled characters too, a lot of them even (probably granted for a mod on this blog). Some of them share my disabilities. And I think that we just have fundamentally different opinions because I'd vastly prefer for someone without my disability to just omit it rather than pretend parts of their face don't move or aren't symmetric. It'd feel like mockery to me, I don't want anyone to pretend to have a facial difference for any reason. If someone tried to dress up as literally me, I'd have the same opinion - do the clothes and goatee, but leave my gait disorder and half-moving mouth out of this. Obviously these things are part of my identity to an extent, and they make me who I am, but pretending to have them to imitate me feels more akin to bullying than authenticity. To be clear I get why you have that opinion, I just feel completely differently about it. And I don't think either of us is wrong or not wrong, it's just a different view of the same thing.

At the end of the day though I don't really care about how people cosplay their blorbos if all they do is dress up and take some photos like most cosplayers do. I just answer questions when directly asked rather than go out of my way to talk about this since in comparison to a lot of other issues this doesn't have big enough of an impact on me to be too bothered by it (if I had to do a list of ableist things I'm annoyed by I can't imagine a world where cosplay would make the list). I'm guessing that most askers don't know any handy person with an FD they can ask that so they come here, and I try to be helpful to the best of my ability.

I think the smartest thing a person can do is read a few opinions of different people and make a decision for themself. There is no one convenient consensus to follow (that I know of?), so it is what it is. If there is a potential cosplayer who is reading this ask and thinks that the asker's opinion makes more sense to them, then that's what they should probably do. The only thing I insist on is that they have fun cosplaying (rather than stressing over what person on the internet is right) because otherwise what's the point...

What I do consider important personally is the original thing I brought up, which is how abled people use facial difference as a costume in order to scare or disgust others. That is insensitive, offensive, and always in poor taste, it spreads misinformation about visibly disabled people and creates a negative image about a whole group of people, a lot of whom dread this time of the year (as mentioned in the article). Talking about this is in my opinion way more important than any Comic Con cosplay of a fictional character will ever be or has ever been, which probably influences my opinion on cosplay. When I think "fake facial differences", I'm reminded of horror villains with make-up that tries and fails to imitate how visibly disabled people look like. I associate fake scars and fake burns and fake skull shapes with this problem strongly, and as you can guess I don't like it at all. I find the authenticity argument hard to believe for myself when what is usually originally portrayed is an abomination of VFX designed to make us look scary; for most of these characters there is nothing good coming out of their "FD representation" anyway. If Freddy Krueger magically started to be shown as abled I'd be glad, not mad that the character who genuinely horribly affected how people from my community are seen is no longer doing that.

This might be a radical take, but most existing characters with facial differences literally shouldn't have them. The way they are portrayed shapes how people are seen for the worse and if I had a "disability erasure" button for all the Scars and Voldemorts out there I'd make them as abled as possible.

Is this how all people with facial differences feel? I don't think I can go and ask each of them but definitely no, it's just the opinion of A Guy on the Internet (many such cases!) and rather than anything else I just want to share my view on stuff, so askers can hopefully make a more informed decision - whether that's writing, drawing, cosplay, etc. If someone reads my take and decides that they want to do the opposite, at least they have a bit of context on how some people might feel about it, and I think that's still valuable.

This is my opinion on this and I hope this clears it up more,

mod Sasza

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Is there a reason Marinette’s lying to Adrien about Gabriel doesn’t make sense to you from a character-standpoint? She’s lied a fair bit in the show for reasons other than keeping her identity or crush on Adrien a secret, and her love for Adrien has consistently created a blind spot for her in terms of her “general” morals/behavior.

Is there something more specific to Marinette’s pattern of behavior that indicates how her lying about Gabe would be OOC, or is the lie something you believe Canon!Marinette should recognize as too egregious to take part in?

(The closest alternative explanation I’ve seen thus far is that she shouldn’t have any reason to lie for Gabe because they share zero good will, but if we interpret it as lying for Adrien, then I’m not sure if that explanation fits.)

I have, admittedly, not gone through the show and tracked every lie that Marinette has ever told to see if I can weave together a pattern that backs Marinette's behavior at the end of season five. It's possible that there's a lie that I'm forgetting that would totally change my stance and, if you think that's the case, then feel free to respond to this with a comment or an ask on that topic! My "this is BS" stance is based on the overall story of the show and the ways that I've seen people try to justify the season five lies as those are the arguments that I've thought through and found lacking.

We'll start by discussing the two lies people use to try to back Marinette's behavior at the end of season five: the scarf and Chat Blanc. Then I'll talk about the story's lead up to the season five lies and why it makes for a horribly unsatisfying story in my eyes. If someone gave this to me, I'd be suggesting some major edits to make it work on a technical level.

The Scarf

For those who don't remember, the season one episode The Bubbler sees Marinette make Adrien a scarf for his birthday. She drops the scarf off at the Agreste mansion with a note for Adrien and the hope that this will get him to finally notice her. Nathalie then takes the scarf and uses it as a gift from Gabriel instead. Marinette learns about this during this exchange at the very end of the episode:

Alya: Yo, nice scarf, Adrien. Off the chain. Adrien: Yeah, can you believe my dad got this for me? (Marinette looks surprised) it's so awesome. He's been giving me the same lame pen for three years in a row.... Alya:(to Marinette) You gotta tell him you were the one who knitted the scarf. Marinette: But he seems so happy about his dad. I don't want to spoil it for him. Alya: Aw, Marinette. (they hug.) You're amazing, girl. You know that, right? And someday Adrien will figure it out too. Promise.

I can see why someone would look at this and call it a setup for the end of season five. There are some parallels here. The problem is that there are a lot of massive differences, too. Differences that make this a really crappy setup:

Marinette does not lie in this scene. She simply overhears a lie and doesn't correct it. Remove her and Alya from the scene and nothing changes. The lie still exists. Meanwhile, without Marinette, the season five lies would never have come to be.

Marinette knows about the scarf lie for about a minute on screen. She hears about it and tells Alya to let it go within the same scene. That's a gut reaction, not a carefully planned and considered deceit. Once again, wildly different from what season five gives us.

Adrien and Marinette aren't shown to be close friends in season one. They rarely talk to the point that I didn't even know that they were supposed to be friends until we got to Origins. That complicates correcting the scarf lie. How does Marinette approach a random classmate and explain a situation that she doesn't even fully understand herself? That's very different from Ladybug telling a lie to a civilian or Marinette lying to her boyfriend.

Season one Marinette has no idea how messed up Adrien's home life is. All she knows is that Adrien liked her gift, but that he thinks it came from a different person. She doesn't even know that a lie was involved in this confusion! As far as she's aware, this could just be a minor misunderstanding that she'd rather let go because does it really matter who the gift is from? This is extra true because the scarf never comes up again, meaning that this is not an ongoing or damaging lie as far as canon is concerned.

That last point and the issue of Marinette never actually telling the lie herself are probably the biggest points in Marinette's favor. If Adrien wore the scarf all the time and used it as a comfort when he was fighting with his dad, then you'd have a solid case for Marinette needing to say something because the lie is arguably doing actual harm. This is especially true if you let Adrien say things like, "I wear this to remember that my father loves me," to Marinette. But that's not what canon did.

As far as canon is concerned, the scarf lie exists for all of a minute. A minute in which Adrien expresses delight in the gift, but gives it very tepid weight in terms of what it means for his relationship with his father. (Adrien's room is full of nice gifts, I don't think a scarf was going to make-or-break their relationship.) After that, the scarf never comes up again, meaning that Marinette's gut reaction to not immediately destroy Adrien's happiness is all we get. That's hardly a great setup for her being the source of massive ongoing lies about Adrien's personhood and the truth of his father's abuse.

I'll also remind you that this all happened at the very start of the show. The Bubbler is one of the first episodes people see. If this is your best argument for Marinette's behavior five seasons later, then we have a major writing problem on our hands. You should not have to dig back to the very start of the show to justify a major character beat like this. There should be more relevant material. We'll circle back to that problem in a minute. First let's quickly touch on lie two and why it also falls flat.

Chat Blanc

Another thing people point to as foreshadowing for the season five lies is the fact that Ladybug kept Chat Blanc from Chat Noir and, if Chat Blanc was actually affecting her, then I would agree with this take. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. The official story is that Ladybug's actions in season four had nothing to do with Chat Blanc. It was just guardian stress! If that's true, then I don't think she should tell Chat Noir about Chat Blanc.

Why?

Since when do we tell people about all the awful things they did while they were akumatized? There's no point to that. It's cruel. Do you think that Ladybug also needs to walk him through everything he did while under the control of various akumas like Dark Cupid? If no, then how is Chat Blanc any different? What's the value in telling Chat Noir the gory details of what will happen if he ever has a moment of weakness and becomes akumatized? He already knows that it will be bad! Why tell him exactly how bad it will be? I can't come up with a single good canonical reason.

Ladybug has no idea what caused Chat Blanc, so she can't warn Chat Noir what he needs to avoid. You can't even use the "he should know about Bunnyx" argument because that wasn't Bunnyx's debut. Canonically speaking, the only reason that Ladybug should talk to Chat Noir about Chat Blanc or any other bad thing that he's done while under the power of an akuma is if it's effecting her or their partnership and it's apparently not! That's why Marinette never reacts to Chat Noir getting a white makeover (see: the Paris special & Jubilation) and why Chat Blanc is never discussed in the show outside of that one brief nightmare callback in Sentibubbler.

To be clear, I think that's an asinine choice as Chat Blanc's memory hurting Ladynoir would have been semi-decent foreshadowing for the season five lies, but the writers decided to go another route. They also let Chat Blanc haunt Adrien even though he doesn't know about it, which I don't even know how to dissect because it's such terrible writing! If you don't know what I'm talking about, this is the official explanation for why Adrien couldn't make it to the final fight. The reason for the white-and-blue Chat Noir that haunted his nightmares:

Mélanie says that he "could become Chat Blanc" and the others add that even though he does not remember and has never lived it, Chat Blanc still has an influence on his actions.

Quality writing here folks. Quality writing. At the very least have season five Adrien be freaked out about the fact that he cataclysmed a human! That would make this make at least a little sense, but we don't get that. Instead we get Adrien almost cataclysming several akumas like it's no big deal while having nightmares about a thing he's never even been told about (see: Derision and Jubilation and probably other's I'm forgetting.)

The Events of Season Four and Five

As you can hopefully see, we don't have a great, ongoing pre-end-of-season-five lie to point to as proof that Marinette would decide to tell the massive lies that she does. That's a pretty big writing flaw, but it's not a show stopper. A lie like this could still fit her character if the story sets it up right.

The problem is that the story doesn't do that. It actually sets Marinette up to be primed to want to tell the truth.

For all Miraculous' nonsensical and wacky writing, the season five lie still comes at the end of two seasons with relatively clear messages. Those messages were to trust others and avoid lies. Let me show you what I mean.

While season four's writing is an absolute disaster, we cannot ignore the fact that the stated lesson in Strikeback is that Marinette learned to trust others, give up control, and stop lying:

Ladybug: Why don't you just give up on me? I've lost ALL the Miraculous! I'm the worst Guardian EVER! I wanted to control everything, I didn't listen to you, I lied to you, I kept you at a distance! Every time you offered me a helping hand, I never took it! I really made a mess of EVERYTHING! (continues sobbing)

This is what Marinette says to Chat Noir directly after losing the Kwamis. This is the lesson that she supposedly learned. The end note of the season. The word of god meant to be internalized by children everywhere. The show even goes so far as to have Ladybug give Chat Noir more responsibility in the first episode of season five (Evolution):

Cat Noir: Catch, m'lady! (throws the Rabbit Miraculous at Ladybug and she catches it) Only the holder of the Rabbit Miraculous can open a time portal. Ladybug: (contemplates shortly then places the Rabbit Miraculous on his chest, smiling) You do it, kitty. Cat Noir: You want me to control time? Ladybug: It's you and me, remember?

Really driving home this idea that Ladybug is going to be more trusting and open with others moving forward.

The meat of season five sees Marinette and Adrien start dating. During this arc, Marinette learns to be more open with her feelings around Adrien while also being confronted with the reality of just how messed up Adrien's home life is. Marinette and Gabriel clash with each other over Adrien with Marinette fighting for Adrien's freedom and Gabriel trying to control everything:

Gabriel: I don't think you understand, child, so let me put things differently. Life is like fashion. You think you have a choice, but all you have is the illusion of choice. And I decide what choices are given to you. Marinette: You're wrong! (Shows Gabriel her sketchbook.) Fashion is about listening to people, it's about understanding who they are, what excites them and creating the clothes that will help them express their inner world. Help them connect with others and make their dreams come true.

This conflict means that Marinette and Gabriel do not have a single positive interaction in the entire season outside of maybe the final. We also see Adrien defy his father more than ever before. This is not the kind of setup you write if you want Marinette to tell Adrien that his father was a hero. Why in the world would she think that he'd want to be told that kind of lie? Why would he even buy it after all of the things that Gabriel has done? The final literally sees Adrien locked in a padded prison cell!!! Writers, what are you doing??? Why did you write this???

There's also the fact that season five has a major theme of lies = bad. It's the season where Lila's lies are finally outed, but only after they almost cost Marinette's friends their futures. For those who need a reminder: Lila tried to mess with the forms that stated where everyone wanted to go for lycée and would have succeeded in pulling off that harm and blaming it on Marinette were it not for the lies being outed.

On top of that, we also see Adrien keeping the plan to ship him off to London from Marinette, ending in this exchange:

Marinette: (on the video call) Adrien! Adrien: (voice breaking; in tears) Marinette, I should've told you sooner, but... up until the last minute, I thought I'd find a solution. I tried everything, I swear. Marinette: (on the video call) Adrien, what's... what's going on? Adrien: I have to leave Paris. (his voice breaks) I'm not worthy of your love. I feel terrible for hurting you.

Adrien kept the truth from Marinette to try to keep her from being hurt and ended up hurting her more than he otherwise would have because they don't even get a proper goodbye.

None of this is a solid setup for Marinette turning around and lying to Adrien about his father. Why would she do that after all of the harm lies and Gabriel caused in season five? Between this and season four, she has not been setup to want to lie to Adrien. Season five needs massive rewrites to make that choice work! (Note: I have yet to see the London special, but based on everything I've heard, I think it's just going to cement my annoyance at Marinette's wishy-washy writing by continuing to ignore the plot of the seasons leading up to the final and the special.)

Final Thoughts

I don't think that Marinette lying to Adrien about his dad is a terrible idea. It's a believable struggle! It just doesn't fit her character's journey. They've failed to have her tell that type of lie before and they had her tell this lie after two seasons where the main lessons were how much lies have hurt her and the people that she loves. If she hasn't gotten the message that you shouldn't lie by now, then when exactly is she going to learn it? It's incredibly hard for me to get invested in characters that aren't allowed to grow and learn from their mistakes and Miraculous has made it abundantly clear that it will not let these characters grow if growth messes with the plot that the writers want to tell.

I will openly admit that I think that Marinette's lie was a last minute retcon to make there be a cliffhanger to season six, but let's ignore that and give a quick three-point plan of how you could make this ending work:

Really lean into the negative consequences of people knowing the truth about things. Nino knowing Alya's identity outing Alya. Luka getting shipped off to Brazil. Make the truth hurt Marinette at every turn. Basically remove all lies = bad consequences and have Ladybug see losing the miraculous be the result of trusting others because she trusted "Adrien" and lost, leading her to keep pushing people away

Don't let Lila be outed. Have Lila be a good president and make that part of her big plan for the next season.

Have Gabriel and Marinette get along. Gabriel has said that Adrien is like Emilie, let Gabriel see himself in Marinette, leading Gabriel to trust Marinette to be Adrien's support should the worst happen. Let the final fight be a heartbreaking moment between two people who have an actual relationship built around loving Adrien. Have Adrien going to London be a "convenient" trip to get him out of the way on the day of the evil plot and not a prison sentence so that Gabriel doesn't look cartoonishly evil. Make it feel like he cares! Sell the redemption!

Do that and, yeah, I'd buy Marinette's choice even without setup lies because you don't need setup lies! Setup lies don't matter anywhere near as much as selling this lie and the writers simply didn't do that. I don't believe for a second that Marinette would lie for Gabriel or think that this was what Adrien wanted based on the relationship season five gave us for those three characters. It is so glaringly obvious that this is nothing more than a stalling tactic that has nothing to do with Marinette's character and everything to do with the show's rule that "there must always be a secret between Adrien and Marinette." I genuinely struggle to understand how anyone sees it as anything else.