#but most of my personal experience with NPD was as a victim of abuse

[narcissism-awareness]

i feel like you're kinda downplaying the possibility of pwNPD being abusive. your blog has a "oh it NEVER happens" vibe. im not officially diagnosed, but my psych test did end up showing symptoms of it. however, i do have bipolar, and the reality is that i have hurt people and that my mental illness *was* a factor in it. it didnt exist in a vacuum. especially when i wasnt medicated.

like i dont blame people who see me having BP and wanting to move away and call them ableist for that. my mental illness will forever be a factor in the way i experience world - and im not saying OH I WAS AN AWFUL PERSON TO THESE PEOPLE, but i mean it in a way "my cycles of mania and depression have hurt people dear to me, even though i wasnt directly hurtful to them". they couldnt cope with it or my needs and thats okay.

i feel like youre being rly dismissive of people who were abused by people with personality disorders. i was abused by someone w BPD and their mental illness *was* a factor in it. the same way my BP/OCD/BM/ADHD affected others. its dishonest to pretend NPD exists in a vacuum.

I never claimed that it never happens, just in most cases of people calling abuse "narcissistic abuse," their abuser was actually self centered or egotistical and not diagnosed with NPD. (most cases, not all)

It is not ableist to call out abusers who have NPD, what's ableist is to call an entire mental disorder abusive. Or to blame abuse on a mental disorder.

While sometimes we may unintentionally hurt others due to our symptoms, abuse is a choice. People choose to manipulate, use, degrade, and gaslight others. That's not something that happens as a symptom of a mental disorder.

It is true NPD can make us to have little regard for other people and their emotions, which can cause some unhealthy and unstable relationships. But it does not cause us to systematically abuse others?? Thinking that is ableism.

However I acknowledge how you said my blog can feel dismissive of abuse victims. Obviously, in any scenario abuse is not ok. Victims should be able to get resources to escape and recover from abuse. But ableism is not excusable just because your abuser(s) had a mental disorder.

The goal of this blog is to call out ableism and spread awareness about NPD. My posts are usually very matter-of-fact because of this, which may make me sound dismissive to abuse victims. (Keep in mind I am autistic and narcissistic so it's hard for me to judge how others will receive my tone)

I apologize for this and will try to be more welcoming to abuse victims when I can, but the main goal is still informing people about NPD and debunking ableist stereotypes.

[nothing0fnothing]

People with NPD are frustrated by the term "narcissistic abuse" because it's closely linked to NPD itself. When they seek resources for recovery or coping strategies, they're bombarded with information on "recovering from a narcissist" rather than guidance tailored to individuals with NPD.

It's not harmful to label abuse as emotional, physical, sexual, or even using a new term like "egotistical abuse." But when it's labeled as "narcissistic abuse," it can create problems for people with NPD, regardless of intention. I understand you'll likely dismiss this, but I hope you'll take a moment to think about it.

Thank you for being patient for all the time I took to craft this reply, I really wanted to give your ask the time it deserves.

I looked into resources connecting NPD with narcissistic abuse and I did find a few. Most of them were articles written by therapists in single practises, blogspot articles or other uncritiqued works, or dissertations written by students in counselling and psychiatry. Obviously any misinformation is bad, especially when it's coming from places that should be reputable like therapists and universities. I wouldn't say in my research what I found was evidence that narcissism is "closely linked" with NPD in any reputable circles though. In todays day and age anyone can have an opinion and make it available for free on the publicly available Internet. It's our own responsibility to educate ourselves and make sure we are leaning on credible sources to form our opinions.

Speaking of the modern age of the Internet, the last part of your ask interested me and I decided to test your theory and run a little experiment.

When people with NPD seek online resources to for support with their disorder, are they are instead met with information for narcissistic abuse survivors?

I created 5 phrases a person suffering narcissistic abuse might search and 5 a person with NPD might search and put each of them into Google.

I used a VPN to manually change my my browsing location to 5 English speaking countries (Ireland, Canada, The USA, Australia and England) and, clearing the cache between every search to reduce uncontrolled variables, searched each phrase to simulate what a person may find in each of those locations when looking for support online.

I decided to see what results came up when searching "narcissist help" "narcissist support" "narcissism recovery" "narcissism signs" and "narcissistic abuse" to emulate what a person suffering from narcissistic abuse might search when seeking support. What came up on the first page of google were mostly resources tailored to support a person experiencing narcissistic abuse in all 5 locations.

Then I searched "NPD help" "NPD support" "NPD signs" "NPD recovery" and "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" to emulate what a person suffering with NPD might search while seeking support. What came up on the first page of Google were only resources tailored to support a person seeking treatment, information or diagnosis for NPD in all 5 locations.

It seems to me that when using the correct vocabulary for their disorder, people with NPD can find support, resources and information relevant to them fairly easily online. Even though they may share a common keyword that victims of narcissistic abuse may also be searching.

From the small test I did to see if your hypothesis held true, it doesn't look like narcissistic abuse awareness harms people with NPD by altering the type of information they may find online at all. My results suggest that the only reason a person with NPD may struggle to find resources when searching for them online is if they've been led to believe that narcissism is the correct term for their disorder.

If people with NPD are led to believe that "narcissist" and "narcissism" are synonyms for their disorder, they may be using these keywords when seeking online resources for diagnosis, treatment or support online. This could explain why people with NPD are reporting that when looking for resources for their disorder online, they're repeatedly finding resources better suited for people looking for information on narcissistic abuse.

The evidence suggests that actually, it's people like you, who are arguing that narcissistic abuse awareness harms people with NPD because narcissism and NPD are synonyms, might actually be the ones harming people with NPD in this way.

I'd love to know if these stats are repeatable, so if you'd like to do the same test and let me know your findings, get back to me any time.

[quitblamingnarcissism]

Just wanted to reach out because you seem open to discussion, and I want to get a better understanding of narcissism so more people have compassion for those who feel it is a stigmatized struggle.

So I was abused badly growing up. And when I open up about how a certain man treated me to people like my therapist, even she will do things like say, “sounds like a narcissist”, to which my brain now associates that mental illness with negativity (in the same way it does to psychopaths and sociopaths). Even though you can’t *help* the way that you are, it’s just how you’re wired.

But when I was younger, I also struggled with mental illness, some of it being harmful to myself, and I won’t get into details since it might be triggering. And did mental health professionals validate me? For the most part, no. I felt stigmatized, I was told I was ungrateful and doing it for attention, and people felt bad for my abusers and how I reacted, not the abuse itself. The way I was treated was overlooked, because the way I reacted was “extreme and wrong” by neurotypical standards.

Basically, what I’m saying is that while I have different mental struggles, I really want to understand and empathize with the way the world treats you over how your mind functions. I have been there to some degree, and I’m sorry that society and even many mental health professionals invalidate what you go through.

It’s not your fault, and I wish you the best.

I haven't actually been diagnosed with NPD and I don't know enough about it to self diagnose. If you're looking for information from people with NPD, there are other blogs run by people with NPD that would be better for that.

I mostly created this blog because I regularly witness abuse being normalized by society and people only see a problem with abuse when a mentally ill person does it. I've experienced many of the things that get labeled as "narcissistic abuse" and I've witnessed other people experience it so many times, and so many people seem to side with the abuser and blame the victim. Only when the word "narcissist" is used do they suddenly realize how abusive the actions are.

Also, while I may or may not have a personality disorder, I'm definitely neurodivergent. And I refuse to sit back and watch other neurodivergent people be demonized. As an autistic person, I know what it's like to have people like me be labeled as disrespectful of boundaries while neurotypical people proudly disrespect boundaries on a regular basis and are praised for it. While the phrase "autistic abuse" isn't used the same way "narcissistic abuse" is, it very easily could be.

Mental health professionals can be very ignorant. Many of them, when they were kids, were the first to bully someone for being weird. They then think they're saints just for tolerating neurodivergent people's presence.

[your-dearly-demented]

narc abuse isn’t real, cry about it 👍

nobody’s saying your experiences aren’t valid, what we are saying is that you don’t need to drag down a group of already stigmatized individuals to talk about your experiences.

just call it what it is - emotional abuse - and move on. pwNPD aren’t more likely to abuse someone than anybody else, because abusing someone is a conscious decision that someone has to make. both pwNPD and people without are capable of making that choice

hope this helps 😊

hoo boy I was just gonna delete this but there is a BIG mistake here. abusing someone isn't always a conscious choice. this is not a justification for it, but trauma disorders like NPD are a result of developing specific "defense mechanisms" in order for the traumatized individual to stay safe. for some trauma victims, these defense mechanisms can be anything from unconsciously forcing themselves not to cry, to using the behavior of their abuser to defend themselves, to, surprise surprise, needing control over situations and individuals to feel safe and feeling unsafe and threatened and therefore angry + irritable when that idea is disrupted. trauma victims can have "unsavory" or harmful defense mechanisms, and NPD is an example of such. i myself am willing to admit that im not perfect, that in arguments i've guilt tripped people and put down their issues and only realized I'd been a mirror image of my mother because i learned to use her own words against her to protect myself because it's the only thing she understands.

[ID: A screenshot from a medical paper about defense mechanisms. It begins with a cut off sentence from above. "- disordered brain. The difficulty is that, often, as with hypnosis, defenses like my grandson's denial of danger compromise other facets of cognition. Perhaps Freud's most, original contribution to human psychology was his inductive postulation in 1894 that, unconscious defense mechanisms protect the individual from painful ideas, emotions, and realities. Freud observed that not only could emotion be "dislocated or transposed" from ideas (by the mechanism Freud would later call isolation) but, also that emotion could be "reattached" to other ideas (by displacement) and that the idea accompanying the emotion could be "forgotten" by repression." END ID]

If you're willing to listen to what I have to say, there are numerous other sources on this topic. Here is the source I took the screenshot from.

Please note that it does include mentions of SH throughout if you decide to read.

tl;dr, pwNPD and NPD folk are in fact more likely to abuse someone than others because abusing and manipulating a person isn't always a conscious choice, it can be a defense mechanism from trauma to exhibit harmful behaviors to feel safe, something I've experienced and done myself, and pwNPD and NPD are both trauma disorders.

I've exhibited these harmful defense mechanisms myself, the only thing that I want from NPD folk are things that i already expect from myself. be self-aware of your actions, and give fellow survivors a place to talk about their experiences. I'm not, and never will say that a narcissistic person will "suddenly grow devil horns and have black eyes". That's ridiculous and dehumanizing. I ask that you be self-aware and let people talk without crossing over into their space to invalidate them and their experiences. That is so little to ask.

[heading-home-again]

Hi there! If I'm following your blog, it's because I like your blog. It's not complicated.

I will make a heroic effort not to descend like a swarm of monotropic locusts and spam like half your blog, but honestly no promises. Unless you have something in profile or pinned saying not to, I do try to check for that.

I post/reblog

Lots of Murderbot Diaries content

Like, a lot :D

Also OCD and autism stuff

Also just cool stuff like nature and cute cats

Also sometimes politics

I'm "old" (40ish)

I don't have a DNI and I don't vet blogs I reblog from at all. I don't even do an ideological purity test on blogs I follow. When I post or reblog something onto my Tumblr, however, I do attempt to filter out the following:

Obvious OCD triggers. I can't catch em all, but I'm at least not going to repost "reblog or you're a bad person" stuff

Political despair

Racism, antisemitism, TERF and radfem stuff, transphobia, erasure, sus call-out posts (that's most of them), etc

Things I think are interesting include various fandoms, nature pics, cats, animals being cute or cool, marine life (OCTOPUSES! WHALES!), space, mental health, neurodivergence and neurodiversity, psychology in general, childhood and child development, parenting, children's rights.

I have OCD and am very interested in how to live well with it.

I don't have an autism diagnosis, but I have found that about 80% of what LSN autistics say about their experiences and effective life hacks applies to me, so ... I am EMBRACING the ambiguity, which I love SO MUCH (sarcasm).

My age is greater than thirty.

I don't give away money on Tumblr. This is a hard line. Doesn't mean I don't believe you, don't think you deserve help, or don't think you should be asking for it. Does mean that asking me here is a waste of your time.

I don't engage while too angry to think. I also have a busy life. These are two possible reasons I'm not replying. Second is more likely.

I am currently trying to learn about narcissism and NPD for several reasons. One being that, once I started researching it on Tumblr, I found I had some of the symptoms. The other being that I've experienced abuse from a friend who almost definitely should have been diagnosed with NPD. The third being that I just think psychology is interesting.

I may currently be following your blog because of this interest, and if so I'm putting in a warning that the next part is me processing difficult stuff and talking about "narcissistic abuse". (And while I hope you won't block me, I understand if you do. I will absolutely take it personally, lol, but I won't, like, have an online fit about it)

Being a condescending asshole about abuse victims may get you blocked. This includes abuse victims who describe their experience as "narcissistic abuse." Yes, the "narcissistic abuse" survivors community is ableist AF. It's also what got me out of a soul destroying, physically dangerous situation. Sometimes things are complicated. Abuse victims, other than a weird mostly non-existent subclass of perfect innocent ideal victims who responded exactly right, are also a huge target of social prejudice. If you don't understand this, and the way it contributes to things like toxicity in the "narcissistic abuse" community, maybe just... don't be rude about abuse survivors?

That said, if you're describing your own experiences as "narcissistic abuse," I'd encourage you, once you are out of survival mode, to consider moving away from the term, for a whole bunch of reasons.

[alostlittleriverlotus]

I answer questions on Quora to help fight the rampant anti-intellectualism and ableism on that site. Cause dear God it's bad with personality disorders, but that site comes up when you are asking questions about PDs a lot so I try.

★IMPORTANT, rant on ableism around narcissistic abuse. Literally just angry emotions. Finishes with positivity for disorders cause we all fucking deserve better.★

Literally said narcissistic abuse wasn't real. Someone agreed with all my points except that one and tried to tell me it's cause it's unique abuse.

Of course every abuse affected by a disorder is unique. My abuse was added to by the fact my parents are autistic and my mother especially struggles to understand others' perspectives. My abuse is unique because of how my ex's GAD and ADHD affected his treatment of me so much so that I refused to use the term ADHD (I used ADD instead) for myself and rejected my GAD diagnosis because it reminded me of him. That doesn't mean it was ADHD abuse or autistic abuse or anything. Every instance of abuse is unique especially when an abuser has certain disorders. It doesn't mean you should use tags like {disorder} abuse. It equates that disorder with being abusive. And yes ADHD and GAD were triggers for me for a long time. Did I go around acting as if people with it were my enemies? Fuck no. Cause that was one instance. A single guy. I literally ended up diagnosed with GAD a few months after I finally got his ass outta my life.

Just cause abuse happens and a disorder the abuser has may influence how the treatment is does not mean {disorder} abuse is real or a valid term. It equates a disorder with abuse or being an abuser and with disorders like NPD, it worsens stigma that already exists. It further pushes the idea that people with NPD aren't abused or can't be abused despite it being a trauma disorder. My traits of NPD I show? Come from neglect and abuse in my family. I crave attention and use it as some of my only show of love because I never got that shit. I want to be praised because I was constantly degraded so what little praise I got, early on, I used to show I was better than my brothers so they couldn't put me down or make fun of me anymore. I latched onto any praise I could get because that's all I had. I became arrogant and narcissistic to protect myself, to give myself some semblance of self worth when I loathed the fact I was even alive at literally age 12. I'm still not confident enough to say I have NPD, but I show NPD traits. And I'm doing research and learning.

So yeah. And any time people with NPD speak up, they're told they're just gaslighting or of course they're being arrogant or they're trying to silence victims.

Your abusers were a single instance. Even if your abuser has NPD, it does NOT make these people your enemy. You are triggered by a disorder a stranger has. Seeing a stranger have a disorder reminds you of your abuser. You fall down this little rabbit hole of "narcissistic abuse" and you villainize them all as some way to have control when you felt so out of control. All you're doing is further pushing your own pain onto others. All you're doing is demonizing a demonized disorder, preventing people with NPD from getting help, treating them like scum because you may or may not have been abused by someone with NPD. A whole group of thousands or more of people demonized because your abuser may or may not have had NPD. Because of your personal experiences that these strangers know nothing about. And the experiences of theirs and their abuse that you have ignored.

Who is really the one hurting victims of abuse? When that kinda shit prevents people from learning about NPD? When it makes people with NPD feel like unlovable monsters? When you call these strangers hollow or not even human? You are not helping by projecting your pain onto others. You are not helping by being so caught up in your abuse that you demonize a disorder. Especially since most people with NPD most likely had an NPD parent.

Healing is not shitting on a group of complete strangers because of your own abuse. That does nothing to help you heal, only to make you feel justified and trying to make some sense of your abuse. People with NPD aren't your enemy. And if you think that or that people with NPD or another personality disorder are abusive or that narcissistic abuse or any other {disorder} abuse is real, then you won't fucking like me. So either you can try to listen and learn or you can leave. Cause I'm willing to give a chance to educate, but if you won't bother to actually learn, go ahead and just stay away from me. Cause this blog is NPD safe. This blog is NPD positive.

This goes for any disorder. This goes for any personality disorder. Cluster A, Cluster B, Cluster C. Paranoid, Schizoid, Schizotypal, Antisocial, Avoidant, Borderline, Histrionic, Obsessive-Compulsive, Narcissistic, Dependent. Y'all are all valid. Any stigma, any ignoring of your disorders, anything at all fucking sucks. I see you, you're valid, your experiences are your own, and you fucking deserve better. PDs deserve better recognition, better education, better help available, and a lot less fucking stigma. I have multiple (Paranoid, Histrionic, Borderline, Avoidant, Dependent) and I suspect Narcissistic and Schizotypal and/or Schizoid (still learning and focusing on that first and foremost.) So I fucking know. We're all valid af and fucking deserve better. Fucking keep being hot as hell and getting through this life. You've come so far and you've done great things even if you've fucked up sometimes. All the love for personality disorders.

Oh and extra love for DID and OSDD and any other dissociative disorder. This was about personality disorders, but oh my god DID and OSDD and whatever are so fucking unknown or uneducated about. I've learned so much from systems on here. And DID is also heavily demonized. Y'all all fucking deserve so much better and you rock. Cause not only are y'all demonized, but y'all are ignored, claimed to be fake way too often, and OSDD is literally unheard of and under researched especially. So just a big ol' props to you! And the schizospec folks that also get used as horror movie tropes and get demonized as well. Honestly just love for the unknown or heavily demonized disorders. We all fucking deserve better. And love for the more known and less demonized disorders. Y'all deserve love too.

Anyway. Drink your water, take care of yourself the best you can, keep working towards a better future for yourself (whatever that may look like), fight for what matters, and make sure to take your meds if you have any and to eat some stuff. Y'all fucking rock! Keep being awesome and I wish you all well :)

[charlieblakely]

The deafening silence regarding NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) diagnosis within the NHS

I decided to start this blog as a follow on from my book. A book I wrote to help victims of narcissistic abuse. I wrote the book due to the limitations I found working for the NHS, (where I’d been a mental health worker for 4 years.)

I was excited, full of passion and enthusiasm when I started. I was looking forward to finally being able to create something positive out of the struggles from my past. I wanted to ‘change poison into medicine’ – a Buddhist philosophy meaning to transform our suffering into something that benefits others. I was idealistic and hopeful.

I quickly learned that there was a wall of silence when it came to the diagnosis of NPD. Few mental health professionals understood the disorder, because it isn’t on the curriculum of most mental health education courses.

I witnessed people with obvious narcissistic traits be diagnosed with other disorders, as if everyone was blind to the reality of their behaviour. When I asked for staff to be trained around NPD I was told that it was too difficult for us to understand! Another wall of silence.

When I asked someone else why nobody was ever diagnosed with NPD despite their obvious traits I was told that there is no point giving the diagnosis, because it wouldn’t help them. ‘They can’t change, and are unlikely to ever engage in any meaningful therapy’. I was told by yet another senior colleague, that it’s because they’re all in forensic services. Meaning their narcissism is only addressed and challenged once their behaviour escalates to criminal behaviour. So much for ‘proactive support’!

At first I assumed I was dealing with incompetence. Now, after 4 years, I espouse the theory that the stonewalling regarding NPD is deliberate. Not by those on the front line, not even by line managers. But from others, so high up they remain invisible and unaccountable. The NHS is a business, like all corporations. They have an enmeshed relationship with big pharma that benefits big pharma.

I’ve spoken to many patients with anxiety and depression. A common experience is that they are offered medication as the primary solution to emotional distress, with therapy being an afterthought.  Anti-depressants are still being prescribed many months after a study was released confirming that anti-depressants have little to no effect, because the cause of depression is not a chemical imbalance in the brain, after all. Before y’all come at me – I’m simply stating a verified study. Not my personal opinion.

It’s a fact, (and self-aware narcissists such as youtuber Lee Hammock will testify to this), that the aim of narcissists is to crush the self-esteem of others, so that they will become dependent. The narcissist has a debilitating fear of abandonment, so this is their maladaptive strategy, to make sure they are not left.

I’ve spoken to enough victims of narcissistic abuse over the years to see that there is undoubtedly a correlation between those with NPD and those they are close to, developing mental/ physical health issues and addiction issues.

It is therefore my belief that the person with NPD is providing the NHS with a stream of damaged victims, i.e. patients, i.e. profit for big pharma. That is the reason I believe the NHS will never have any discussion around treating NPD. It is too lucrative for them and their business associates to continue as they are.

What do you all think about that??

[medusian3y3]

Notes: Astro Observations on Narcissism

Question: What signs are prone to narcissism from your experience/observations?

Disclaimer: This is not to offend anyone or assert that everyone with these placements acts this way. This is just observable/personal notes on confirmed NPD I have known. There are biological factors and social stressors (including but not limited to early childhood trauma) that cause the onset of conditions. These people listed have met that criteria prior to my evaluation & observation notes.

If I am going off of people who have met the DSM-5 criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) over long-term observation & in multiple circumstances I would say the following:

Leo Sun Men (regardless of rising) with Cancer and Gemini/Taurus personal placements (Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars)

Virgo Sun Men (unknown chart) and Men with Virgo personal placements.

Cancer Women (regardless of rising) with Leo & Gemini personal placements.

All people with full chart details are dominant in the water element regardless of gender and generational planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto), also regardless of Lilith, Chiron, or N Node. The most common factors among communal NPD and somatic NPD were (women, cancer, leo, and gemini placements). This group also featured conditions like: Munchausen by proxy, disordered eating, body dysmorphia, idealization of parenthood & partnership, a tendency for violence, a tendency for infidelity, romantic narcissism & serial dating, heavy reliance on {emotional & psychological abuse, facade management, devaluation of victims, & use of flying monkeys or triangulation}, obsession and stalking behaviors, controlling behaviors, and addiction.

The most common factors among covert and malignant NPD were Virgo personal placements and male gender identity (special mention to taurus personal placements & capricorn stellium). This group also featured characteristics such as: psychopathy, tendency toward violence, a tendency toward infidelity, a tendency toward obsession & stalking behaviors, controlling behaviors, a heavy reliance on psychological abuse, triangulation among all social groups, a tendency to live double lives/have multiple identities/compartmentalize, pathological lying, rage outbursts, and addiction.

The most common factors among somatic and sexual NPD were (men, leo, virgo, and gemini placements -- special mention to scorpio & capricorn stelliums). This group featured characteristics such as: body dysmorphia, disordered eating, a tendency toward SA & DV, a tendency toward infidelity that mirrors sex addiction, covert & love-bombing techniques in all social groups, romantic narcissism, irregular relationship patterns/standards, serial dating, idealization of parenthood & partnership, heavy reliance on romantic triangulation, and morphing into partners.

Love - Dinah / Lior Luna

[nothing0fnothing]

you're not wrong about NPD and enabling the need for supply isn't healthy it just exasperates the symptoms.

thank you for your support.

I'm going to use your comment as a bouncing off point to discuss narcissistic supply if you don't mind.

NPD and narcissism are agreed in most psychology circles to not be the same thing, with NPD being a disorder categorised by clinically high levels of narcissistic traits, along with other traits not generally associated with narcissism (such as having low or no empathy and low self esteem.) Narcissistic Personality Disorder isn't even the only disorder categorised by high levels of narcissistic traits. Borderline Personality Disorder and histrionic Personality Disorder are two more. They're categorised as cluster B Personality Disorders and unfortunately being diagnosed with one comes with more than its fair share of stigma.

Cluster B personality disorders are actually widely agreed by experts to be formed in early childhood through trauma. Going into discussions like the one I've inextricably found myself in these last few days with that knowledge is important, because if anything people with NPD deserve love, acceptance and support. With that knowledge we can understand why people with these disorders have a need to be praised, complimented and showered with attention. Everyone deserves love and support, nobody deserves a willing victim ready at a moments notice to receive abuse because a mentally ill person feels they need it. Everyone should be willing to be a good friend to the people they love even if their loved one has a highly stigmatised disorder, nobody should be shamelessly used for supply and had their trauma exploited to that end as I have been that last 3 days.

That being said, it's up in the air regarding narcissistic supply and weather a person suffering with NPD needs it. Generally those who know more than me say that the answer is yes, that to remain functional and emotionally well, a sufferer of NPD (and some people experiencing other Cluster B Disorders) do need narcissistic supply. Its not hard to extrapolate from that that if a person with NPD, BPD or HPD may need supply to maintain emotional equilibrium, so might a narcissistic person who doesn't have a cluster B personality disorder.

This isn't evil and it doesn't mean that people with this disorder can't help but hurt, abuse or dominate everyone in their path. While some who are untreated, undiagnosed, unwilling to change or all 3 do behave in ways that are unacceptable, this isn't always the case.

In fact a lot of therapy surrounding NPD specifically, is learning how to receive that supply in a way that does no harm. This could be venting to a friend willing to listen, going out of your way to help someone to confirm that you are a good person and surrounding yourself with people who care for and appreciate you. When we think about it this way, we can understand that people with cluster B personality disorders are actually highly sensitive people who need validation and comfort just like the rest of us, they just have to go about receiving it in the right way. This is better for the people in the cluster B sufferers life, but also for the cluster B sufferer, who generally do not want to hurt people for their own gain and don't set out to do so.

I have to be honest I never came to this account hoping to talk about NPD or cluster B disorders, I'm hardly an expert and it hardly connects to my reasons for starting this account. But the more I am attacked for vilifying NPD by people who don't understand the difference between narcissism and NPD, the more I feel like I have to defend myself, my blog and the people with the disorder that is being misrepresented by the people accusing me of demonising NPD with ableism. I'm not an ableist I just know what I've experienced. I know what it's called and I won't stop correctly identifying my experience because some people who don't know better wish I wouldn't.

[gabriellawoodmangrad703]

Audience: Following somewhat identifying an audience through my research question - I have applied this thought into a quick brainstorm/mindmap to establish the different types of audiences for this project - with a different audience most likely requiring a slightly unique output. 

The primary audience is identified as victims of narcissistic abuse; those who feel isolated in their experiences and are in need of a medium that is representative of their trauma and abuse. This medium hopefully will provide as an alternative communication method to verbal communication to which can be given to the secondary audience: people who have no knowledge on NPD - to help the victim build a wider body of support to confront the 3rd and final audience the person with NPD. 

The need to have two audiences to get to the final audience opposed to a direct victim - abuser confrontation, is due to the notion that narcissistic abuse victims are either terrified of the abuser and/or lacking in confidence to approach the abuser due to the repetitive pattern in their relationship of the abuser shutting down the victim and un-validating their feelings and views (Cuncic, 2021) (Marks, 2022). Therefore by creating a wider community for the victim, a community who the perpetrator hasn't had experience in narcissistically abusing  - the abuser with NPD may be more receptive in listening to their opinion.

References: Cuncic. (2021). Effects of Narcissistic Abuse. Verywell Mind. https://www.verywellmind.com/effects-of-narcissistic-abuse-5208164

Marks, J. (2022). How to Confront a Narcissist. Psych Central. https://psychcentral.com/disorders/confronting-narcissistic-abuse

[innocent-until-proven-geeky]

Hi hello have some neurodivergent headcanons because my goal in life is to never leave any character neurotypical!

Will is autistic and ADHD. AutiHD, if you will. (Most Rangers are, I think.)

Horace is also autistic.

George is also autistic.

Halt has BPD and PTSD.

Gilan has ADHD.

Crowley has ADHD.

Cassandra has ADHD.

Jenny has OCD.

Alyss is autistic and has an eidetic memory.

Pauline is autistic.

Listen I don’t actually Want to headcanon most of the cast as autistic or ADHD, it’s just that those are the neurodivergencies I have the most experience with and can grab little nuggets from the easiest.

I can definitely see Horace having a tic disorder also.

Will and Halt both have depression. I think Will’s is more seasonal and Halt’s is year-round.

Duncan has ADHD.

Baron Arald has ADHD.

Lord Anthony has OCD. It’s pretty obvious in Icebound Land, I think, the way he gets so stressed when the King isn’t dealing with Halt’s treachery “correctly.”

Sir Rodney has ADHD and I think he might be a little obsessive but I don’t think he has any compulsions and therefore isn’t really OCD. His obsessions are, naturally, based around combat.

I feel like 95% of Skandians have ADHD as well. (If 95% have it, would that make it their “typical”?) They’re restless and they struggle to make actual proper plans for battle.

[dickssociation]

in the wake of the Depp/Heard trial's presence becoming a nearly inescapable anywhere on the internet, please try extra hard to be kind to yourself. if you know that it's bad for you to keep reading, please keep scrolling & block any tags people are using for this garbage. i'll be leaving this here then disengaging too.

last night i reached a breaking point after accidentally getting into a conversation with my roommates about what purpose it serves as a publicized event. people either seem to be taking sides in what they see as a soap opera or taking the "mature, detached" approach of denouncing any real-world effect. this isn't just celebrity drama. this is something that will deeply effect the way we look at both domestic violence and mental health. after years of academic research on personality disorders & years of following the personal experiences of people with personality disorders, as well as learning to manage my own bpd symptoms, reading the misinformation that's being reported is so heartbreaking

here's what happened & why it's scary:

•mental illness has once again been used in a court of law to not only support abuse accusations, but also to delegitimize the opponent's testimony

•the specific mental illnesses in question are all Cluster B personality disorders (BPD & HPD for Amber, NPD for Johnny), some of the most historically misunderstood & stigmatized disorders in the entire field of psychology

•it's already very difficult to find professional help that isn't dehumanizing - it just got harder (therapists often flat out refuse to treat people diagnosed or suspected of having a personality disorder)

•this is many people's first time hearing these terms - abusiveness is now an inherent connotation

things to remember:

•throwing around the words "borderlines" or "narcissists" instead of "people with BPD/NPD" reduces a person to a diagnosis & reinforces stereotypes

•turning psychiatric terms into adjectives & using them in phrases like "narcissistic/borderline abuse" is the same as describing someone's behavior as "bipolar" or "schizo" when it negatively affects you - it's demonizing & ableist

•linking a particular style of abuse to a mental disorder allows anyone to look at an abuser and diagnose them with a mental disorder

•it also allows anyone to look at someone with a mental disorder and assign them the status of an abuser

•people (not diagnoses) are responsible for their actions & the effects of those actions

•diagnoses do not dictate personal ethics

•no one is a bad person because of their diagnosis or a good person despite it

•any type of abuse can be perpetrated by anyone, neurodivergent or neurotypical

•every person is different - celebrities in a disturbing legal battle are NOT the faces of personality disorders or really anything else that the general population should relate to

•this will continue to be an incredibly triggering topic for some people with a history of abuse, people with a personality disorder, & especially people with both

•people with personality disorders are much more likely to be abused than neurotypical people (certain symptoms + neurodivergence in general put us at greater risk) - not all of us are victims of abuse, but the majority are (sources below)

•please be sensitive & respectful - we're humans too & feeling like our existence is being criminalized is really upsetting

•please educate yourself before you speak on the experiences of neurodivergency - bias is nearly unavoidable but it's also pretty easy to detect even if academic resources are too dense for you

sources:

1 2 3 4 5

[simonalkenmayer]

I dont mean to be impolite, and I'm not sending this as an attack by any means, but since you're aware of the term 'narc abuse' contributing to the stigma of NPD, why do you prefer to use that term rather than using the term 'emotional abuse' (which 'narc abuse' is most often described). You agreed with the anon proposing there is no alternative when there is: emotional abuse. I dont understand. It's literally emotional abuse. :(

As a comparison, I, as a schizospec person, would be hurt and most definitely be aware of it being a contribution to stigma, if someone called emotional abuse perpetuated by a schizospec person, 'schizo abuse' or 'schizophrenic abuse' or something alike; as both Schizophrenia and NPD are highly stigmatized, I made that comparison. I'm not sure why you'd be content with using such a term. I'm not really... upset, mind you, I'm detatched... but awfully confused. (Especially at the mindset behind this & your actions, haha, social skills are not my forté)

By the way, when did the experiment end and what did you do with the data? And, what now? What comes of everything? I recall surveys being sent out at one point.

Take care,

Emily

Emily, is it?

Please scroll back and view the discourse for the last few days. You know…the discourse to which you’re replying, I make my point very clearly in every single post on the topic. Strange that you didn’t catch it.

Here it is again: emotional abuse is a very broad term for an entire array of behavior patterns. Narcissistic abuse is a specific pattern of both emotional and potentially physical abuse. Emotional abuse is not specific enough. If we want to stop the thing, we must name it, and in the case of narcissists, they like to conceal their actions and deny treatment.

One facet of both NPD and narcissistic behavior, is that they refuse to take accountability for the outcomes of their behavior—behaviors that can only be treated if recognized. So by calling it emotional abuse, you’re in fact, playing directly into their version of events and supporting their delusions that they are not responsible. It negates their culpability for their specific pattern of behavior. It feeds into their poor mental health.

When it comes to mental health, there is a line in the sand. Narcissists are recognized by the harm they do. A man can beat his wife because he is mentally ill. Doesn’t make the action acceptable. If we call him a wife beater, are we stigmatizing his mental illness or are we naming his actions and forcing him to take accountability? Are we going to pat him on the head and say “it’s alright, your illness did it to you”? No. We are going to call his abuse what it is, and recognize that as a society, negative behaviors ought to have a negative stigma attached.

Narcissists play games. They love to try and get their victims to trip up or second guess themselves. Gaslighting and manipulating the truth are one of their most favored types of abuse. Like this carefully constructed ask, for example, containing careful clues as to how you missed my point the first ten times (“whoops I’ve been gone! What happened to the surveys? My heavens when did you end the experiment that you’ve been talking about ending since March of last year! *gasp*). This ask, written ostensibly by someone who cares so very deeply about this issue and my opinion on it, using sympathetic language and a personal story about how their own very different mental illness is stigmatized—something that has nothing to do with this particular issue—just pops into my ask box after somehow completely ignoring the point I have made in every single post on this issue, that asks me the same question again, like someone trying to bait me into “slipping up” or someone who wants to mitigate the abuse that narcissists do. This ask which just so happens to have appeared in my ask box after both Izzy and an “anonymous proxy server” visit my blog, go to the main page directly, and then click my ask box link.

Fascinating coincidence.

Narcissistic abuse is a specific thing. Social media creates a popularity culture, this combined with anonymity creates an ideal circumstance for narcissism to evince itself. Narcissists often evidence superficial charm and charisma and flourish in social media environments, and so often, the abuse that appears in online space matches narcissistic abuse patterns extremely easily.

Case in point, Emily. Case in point.

[blackgirlsuperherorants]

I deleted last night's personal post, but I have had time to think and I'm ready to talk about it, again. If anyone has experience with narcissists, please chime in, because I'm convinced my brother legitimately has NPD.

These are the signs:

Centers himself at the expense of others.

No empathy. None. Like, my Dad sobbed "He wants me dead" and "*brother's name* hates me" and he doesn't care and is unmoved. Even walking around happily like he got what he wanted. Mind you, my dad JUST got out of the hospital on Christmas Eve and has pneumonia. (He said "If he dies, it won't be my fault. Dad made poor food choices his entire life." ... Pneumonia isn't caused by fatness, my Dad isn't fat, and my brother is a former fat kid, so it's sick that he'd even say something so callous.)

Plays the victim even while actively causing harm, and frames himself as righteous for the pain he is inflicting.

Uses eternal victimhood to get what he wants from my mother, who desperately loves him and would do anything for him, then flips on the entire family when he doesn't get his way (Dad asked him to return their second car back in October.)

Silent treatment for months so he can make someone confront him and then proudly announce that he is doing it because he's "setting a boundary" against the family, even though he lives in my parents' house. (Took this so far that my dad was in the hospital and he would go sit in the hospital room with my dad when no one else was there and purposefully not speak to him for hours. My dad was cognitive and able to speak the whole time, and me and my other siblings would go and keep him company. He stole time we could have had just to show my dad that he still wouldn't talk to him. Like an asshole.)

Accusing people of being abusive and irrational for having emotional responses to his mistreatment of them.

Accusing our oldest brother of being abusive for begging him to speak to him on Christmas day. (Our oldest brother has 2 kids who are teen and young adult, he's never even spanked them, doesn't really yell at them, nothing. They're both well adjusted, and his son, who is a few years younger than me, has a salaried job at a mortgage company and he's only 23.)

Very all or nothing. Very "you're either good or a monster". He pretends not to remember heartfelt conversations my Dad, my Mom and I have had with him. Only pretended our second oldest brother was good because he was trying to be on his side (he doesn't live in the same state and barely has contact with narc brother, so hasn't experienced any of this.) Refuses to see my Dad as good, because he's framed Dad as the monster, and me and my Mom are now bad because we don't hate my Dad with him.

Frames himself as more enlightened than everyone else and refuses to take responsibility for the pain he causes, or even care about us.

Embellishes how awful we have always treated him and even slanders us to his friends (which I've always suspected... and didn't have proof of until he started telling me that I treated him poorly, when I've spent most of my life desperately trying to make him happy, all while feeling his disdain towards me.) Also uses this to make you feel like you have to do things for him because he's so traumatized and hurt. He's also gay (I'm bisexual, btw) and uses it as a weapon, which is so gross. My parents accepted him like 15 years ago. My siblings and I are Gen-X and Millennials, and so are already super pro-LGBTQ+. Even though my other siblings are heterosexual. Like, our second oldest brother makes pro-LGBTQ TikToks (as well as other social justice stuff.) Our oldest sister is the first person he came out to and has been in his corner from the beginning. But he still uses this as some kind of leverage "You guys never accepted me! I'm always treated differently!" ??? Literally no? And I've called him out before for treating me like a homophobe when I've been out since I was like 19, but he still uses that shit to manipulate sympathy. My parents LET HIS BOYFRIEND SPEND THE NIGHT. IN HIS ROOM. They wouldn't even let my straight siblings do that with their opposite sex partners, because they didn't want him to think they didn't approve of him having a boyfriend. But I digress.

I spent last night begging him to let me have a relationship with him, but afterwards, I realized that that's how manipulative, abusive boyfriends act. They want you to plead with them to love you. And I started to realize he was showing what seem like signs of narcissism.

Does ANYBODY have any advice, or has anyone experienced this? Most people talk about narcissistic parents or partners. But what about siblings? I don't want him around my parents. I don't want to speak with him ever again. He's still in their house, but swears he's leaving. I don't want to know someone who says "If he dies he dies" about my father, and who invents a false abuse story (he told us that my Dad would come home from work in a rage and beat everyone. Y'all. My Dad literally never did that. Never. And he NEVER hit my Mom. We had a relatively fun childhood. I don't know how to make it clear that this is made up so that he can play the victim. It's like he saw this in a movie or on TV and was like "yeah, my Dad did that." I'm almost sure he believes it, too.)

I also feel like he's trying to blame his lack of success on my parents. He tried to say all of my Dad's 5 kids are failures. It's literally not true. We're all doing pretty well, and even when we've struggled, we've been pretty resilient. Between us we have 3 BAs, 1 MFA, 1 JD, 1 cosmetology license. He's literally the only one that hasn't settled on a path or even completed undergrad (my oldest sister did cosmetology instead of college, but she also finished!!!)

I mean... is this narcissism? Is it just lashing out? Either way, I'm not going to talk to him again.

[npdbubblygum]

Hi there, as a lot of people have seen there is a cluster fuck of a post in the npd tag about.. idek how to summarize it except glorifying empathy and villainizing personality disorders. They use narcissist, psychopath, abuser, and lots of degrading words interchangeably so be prepared for that. I won’t @ the person, partially because I don’t want to deal with the headache of them replying and partially because I don’t want to be responsible if they get harassed. They’re in the tag though publicly saying this so you could stumble upon it yourself, be careful and don’t read if it’ll hurt you! Tagged as #long post

It was so long so I decided to pick out the most relevant parts and comment on them.

People who know they have NPD don’t seem to go around calling people “unaware narcissists” as we know it’s difficult to notice and diagnose and increases stigma to do so. That’s something self proclaimed empaths do a lot though. Also, are you in this statement admitting that empaths can come across as self centred and “narcissistic” if people don’t understand what’s happening in their brain?

Personally I don’t feel any hatred for hyperempathetic people, that’s just a neutral trait some people have.

You can’t really say something is the opposite of a whole personality disorder that has several different diagnostic criteria and presents differently in different individuals. Brains aren’t black and white and antisocial PD isn’t only lack of empathy. The word for not being antisocial is prosocial what I know?

People can have compassion without empathy and people can lack compassion while having empathy, and it’s okay to not be loving as long as you aren’t harming people.

You shouldn’t passive aggressively say sorry to us in the same sentence you’re insulting us as “number out husks” and then go on to talk about how weak and cowardly we are. A lot of us had our empathy weaponized against us from such an early age that we had to turn it off to survive. If you value empathy so much, why aren’t you empathizing with that? I don’t really feel anything about it, it’s just a fact, but it’s also a fact that we shouldn’t have had to suffer through so much pain and then be blamed for how our brains developed. Also, if someone was born without empathy or had a traumatic head injury that impacted it they obviously didn’t choose that either. People who can feel a lot of empathy are also often scared of love and people without empathy can hate violence and conflict and have people they value enough to sacrifice themselves.

First of all, people in power are corrupt and become corrupt and are not the same as inventors or philosophers or any other great contributor, secondly those are exceptional people who stand out in history and didn’t have any access to therapy or self help or medication or anything else that helps mentally ill people function and cope. You can’t even go back in time and confirm who feels what level of empathy. People without empathy can also value peace, human lives, safety, etc. I constantly help caring for friends and community regardless of how little I feel about them. I don’t have to feel empathy, sympathy or compassion to do what is right, I can simply choose it, I can hate someone and devalue them and still choose to do what’s best for them.

The concept of empathy isn’t attacked we’re literally just saying we can exist without it and still be worthy human beings and people with empathy can be flawed and selfish still. We literally just want nuance and acceptance so people will have access to help.

Okay who thinks we’re actually out to destroy empathy? Maybe fascists are but come on. In the npd tag? You go into the npd tag thinking we have some kind of agenda to Destroy Empathy? People in society value empathy so much that calling someone empathetic is considered a huge compliment and calling someone unempathetic is an insult.

Fun fact! That’s how a lot of us were made! People literally broke our child-brains by using our empathy as a weapon against us and it was so overwhelming and terrible we couldn’t handle it :^) but yeah call abuse victims weak and pathetic that’s great love that for you

Also, a lot of us have really strong emotions that are incredibly overwhelming, not just a “dried up stream” lol

You talk about empaths needing a shield. Our “shield” was Not Having It.

Still unsure if you mean people with NPD or abusers or abusers with NPD but while there probably exists some people who go out with the intention to cause harm, most narcissists don’t and even most abusers work differently than that, they have a set of beliefs that they think justifies their harm it’s not really “oh how fun to destroy people” in a lot of cases. Of course it is unjustifiable though. I’ve read that abusive people seek out more empathetic people because they’re easier to convince that they can deserve it and often have qualities an abuser values, like a willingness to give more chances and staying quiet about mistreatment because they’d feel guilty or being guilt tripped easily. It’s often more about control than sadism, but sometimes it is sadism. Unempathetic people can also be abused and deserve to have resources.

Intelligence is actually not very easy to define and measure and intellectually disabled people should absolutely be included in that conversation and should absolutely not be called mindless, the mind is way more than the typical definition of intelligence. Heart doesn’t have a set definition and is even more loose than intelligence but if someone doesn’t experience the same types of emotions as me I’d still think they should be able to speak their minds about it.

Oh my god no one is denying the existence of empathy?? It is a well known concept, people study it, people who say they don’t feel it are admitting it exists because that’s what makes them different.

There are so many things to say here.. first of all are you equating npd to abuser again?

Secondly, this is a really toxic mindset. You don’t have to suffer through incredible emotional/psychological pain to be strong. You don’t have to be strong. You don’t have to “bear the burden”. If you’re in a situation that is bad for you, please do what you can to leave! You aren’t better or worse for not being able to handle the pain, you shouldn’t have to be in pain.

Thirdly, what do you think a narcissistic injury or crash is? It’s exactly that. Our sense of self and self worth crumbling when our defence mechanism doesn’t work. It’s not funny. It’s awful to go through. We do not have life on easy mode, life is a fucking nightmare, people with npd often have suicide attempts. How can you say any of this while claiming to empathize with people?

People with facial disfigurements have told me that disfigured is the word they want to be called, not deformed. Also, you shouldn’t vilify disfigurement like that, it’s not a bad thing and it’s ableist to use it to insult and to equate it with being an abusive person or having a mental illness. Also calling people monkeys is dehumanizing too. Don’t think you can get away with that.

You are actually correct about empathetic not being the real word - empathic is actually standard English. Not because -pathetic means you’re weak but because -pathic means suffering/experiencing/feeling/being moved by and -pathetic means means being able to move someone else. You’re being super fucking weird about it though.

Your pop culture references weren’t that accurate or relevant and you shouldn’t rely on made up stories to support your point when you’re talking about real psychology. So I won’t include them. I saw some other people already told you they were wrong.

Hopefully no one agrees with any of the shit you wrote it was a pain to make this post but it was eating at me when I tried to leave it alone so here you have it

[violentviolette]

Have you ever studied these disorders at psych school and then became a therapist for decades to work with these personality disorders and victims of them? Then don't speak for the rest of the aspd/npd community. You people gaslight so much. I've worked with them for so many years and I can vouch for these victims of narcissistic and antisocial/sociopathic abuse. It is very easy for people with these disorders to fall into abusive, controlling, manipulative behaviors unlike every other disorder.

not that its needed because this information is readily availble online to study and learn and needing some classist barrier of a degree to speak with any authority on a subject as subjective as mental health is bullshit, but for the record yes. i do. i have a bachelors in behavioral sociology and 4 years experience working in a counseling center

ontop of that i did an additional 4 years of abuse recovery inensive therapy, a dbt program, and anger management. ontop of having been in standard talk therapy since i was 12, so most of my life. i know intimately and extensively how abuse opporates, manifests, and works from both sides, both as someone who was abused and recovered as well as someone who abused others and changed my behavior. so dont worry about how qualified i am to speak on my own lived experience and readily available knowelege

if ur truly working with npd and aspd clients than i really hope theyre able to find help and get out from under your abusive and harmful treatment so that they can recieve real help from people who have their best interests in mind and who treat them compassionately instead of looking at them like monsters

ur literally admitting that u treat ur narcissistic and anitsocial patients as inherently more capable of abuse than other disorders. so what happens when u have a narcissitic patient whose being abused (which is overwhelmingly the most likely case as over 90% of people with cluster b disorders are abuse victims)? are u going to be less likely to believe them and instead blame them for their abuse? what about if u have a bipolar patient who is abusing their partner? are u going to be less critical of their behavior and more forgiving because bipolar patients dont “fall into controlling, manipulative, and abusive behaviors” as easily??

ur a genuine danger to real life people not because of any of ur traits, of which i know none, but because of ur concious willful actions and stubborn insistance on supporting junk science akin to antivaxx rhetoric and i hope ur patients get real help for the harm uve almost certainly caused them.