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harpieisthecarpie · 3 days ago

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Harp's way too long "interpreting Jayvik as a queer rework of Judas & Jesus" ramble (BASS BOOSTED)

Okay so I have a ramble about jayvik's jesus/judas parallels that was inspired by the acoustic vers of JUDAS by The Reverent Marigold (amazing trans nb artist pls listen) and a mutual I'll tag in a reblog bc this is LONG

But this particular song is one I hold close to my heart (and project onto my favorite stories) bc it's a fundamentally compassionate reading of a biblical figure who is viewed as anathema by believers for a fate he never even had the chance to change.

To skip my kinda long Judas preface ramble go to the next orange text

Jesus forsees Judas's betrayal, he lets it happen. Yet Judas has become a reviled figure for being the catalyst of Jesus's transcendence from prophet to Christian deity.

Jesus had to be betrayed, he had to "die for our sins", and he had to fall so he could ascend. He could not be the redeemer without his betrayer.

Yet Judas, who is argued to either be destined or hellishly influenced for his betrayal, in my eyes didn't have to betray Jesus with a kiss. An emotional gesture, whether romantic or familial or platonic or whatever.

There was a gesture of devotion even in that act of persecution, and Judas died in despair of his own actions.

Okay this is the jayvik ur here for

Okay okay this is the part about jayvik, because when everyone was mad over Jayce killing Viktor during the 2nd batch of s2 eps, all I could think about how Viktor had been stuck in a limbo. Half ascendant and half trapped by his mortal form.

Like Christ was Jesus of Nazareth before being the Son of God, s2 Viktor is stuck in the middle of The Scientist and The Herald. Not quite mortal, not fully deity.

Something's gotta give, someone has to hammer the last nail in his coffin (or the crucifix in this instance), someone has to be the Betrayer for Viktor to be the Redeemer. And would we really want it to be anyone other than Jayce?

Would Viktor want it to be anyone other than Jayce? Someone other than his partner, the first man he saved on his path to ascendance. The man killing him with compassion because the Viktor of before had never wanted this.

And it's fascinating to me that within the parallel to Christianity, the differences in Arcane's story give Jayce and Viktor a far more lovely, compassionate ending than Judas and Jesus ever had. At least in the mainstream canon.

It's why I compared jayvik to Rev Mari's JUDAS instead of the basic story. JUDAS's queer themes and Rev Mari's lyricism reframe Judas in a kinder light and humanize Jesus in ways that make me so happy.

Lyric examples:

Because queerness, especially in gender, is so deeply about compassion, and living true to ourselves, and killing what is keeping us from growing into our own identities.

And the fact that Viktor and Jayce, with all their allegorical connections to the Savior and Betrayer, got such a beautiful, transcendent, and queer ending is. Meaningful

Wayyy more analysis under the cut! YAY

go to the next pink if you only want my main conclusion :]

Because Judas's story ended in him taking his own life, and Jayce was given a near rebirth when Viktor saved him from taking his own.

Judas's betrayal was predestined as a tool for Jesus's ascension to Christ the Son, while Jayce's betrayal was that he actively went against Viktor's decision and Viktor's autonomy. When Jayce killed the in-between Viktor he was repenting for that betrayal, and in doing so he was saving himself. In the Christian sense of the word, where Salvation is of the soul.

Only, in the Christian sense of the word, Jayce's salvation would have to come from the Savior. He would be praying for guidance, even if from that in-between Viktor.

But he doesn't put the onus on Viktor to forgive him, he doesn't compromise his devotion to his partner Viktor at the behest of this new Viktor that came from Jayce's betrayal.

When Judas sent Jesus off to die, that was his greatest sin. Jayce's was forcing Viktor to live in spite of Viktor's wishes.

The popular belief is that Judas was condemned to eternal damnation, punishment for a betrayal that Christ needed to ascend. And I think that is the saddest, most hopeless thing in the world.

If Christ couldn't– or wouldn't– save his friend and follower who fell so deep into guilt when his led to Jesus of Nazareth's death that he killed himself, how could anyone trust in their own salvation? If Judas was condemned to rot in Hell when his "loving" deity was done using him, why the fuck would anyone want that Salvation?

pink text indicating the conclusion

So Jayce and Viktor, in this fucking fundamentally queer story, saving each other and knowing each other and finding each other in every fucking reality like their souls could never exist apart is beautiful to me.

Neither of them were the passive objects of the other's Salvation. We know this because Jayce's original betrayal and the Herald's reality shifting "fixes" didn't save the other, nor did those actions condemn themselves.

Neither were helpless, or groveling for "forgiveness", or forced to fundamentally alter who they were at the core in order to be worthy of goodness.

They weren't exactly Jesus of Nazareth and Judas Iscariot, because Jayce and Viktor were written with a fundamentally queer compassion many refuse to apply to their faith.

Neither Jayce nor Viktor were purely Salvation or Forgiveness.

They were better. Jayce and Viktor saved each other, and themselves, when instead of forgiveness they offered acceptence and compassion.

I read it as:

There is nothing to forgive, because there is nothing wrong with you. I'm sorry I tried to change you, there is nothing wrong with you. I will prove in every reality that there is nothing wrong with you.

I found you again, and I'll find you again, because you held my soul so gently your hands left shining, iridescent marks that guide me to you in every reality.

There is no Jayce without Viktor, and no Viktor without Jayce, because they made it so. They chose to be soulmates, in whatever way you want to read it. And that means so much to me.

tl;dr arcane showed us the kinda religion we'd get if they let jesus be trans and have a boyfriend

#jayvik #i also think theres FOR SURE DISABILITY THEMES HERE but im nit the guy to do that regarding physical disabilities #sending a link to the song and tagging the mutual in a reblog!#jayce talis #arcane jayce #viktor arcane #arcane spoilers #arcane season 2 #arcane s2 #arcane #i have religious guilt by proxy #bc chicana catholic family passed down undiagnosed anxiety disorders and religious guilt #grew up in small rural town of mostly christians and catholics until age 10 #and im queer in the usa so idk what to tell u #harp rambles #man i really figured out my feelings about the end to jayviks story during this lol okay talk about processing #cw religious themes #cw sui mention #oh i forgot to clarify I grew up being raised without a religion in a town where everyone was some sorta religious.#whether they were christians or a member of the indigenous tribe that practiced their tribe's faith #which i wont specify cause thatd triangulate my old town for sure bc it was right by the reservation #anyways when everyone around you is raised in a faith you wonder what the fuss is about #but you were raised by avid readers who encouraged skepticism and therefore really really cannot fathom what the fuss is about #you internalize things in a weeeeiiiiird way #like no i dont believe in a higher power but like tell that to the part of me who listened when ppl talked about sin

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batsplat · 5 months ago

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do you have a favorite bit of motogp gossip that you either want to know is it’s true, or you just enjoy as a stand alone piece, no need for further investigation?

one of those where I initially stared at and like. lost all motogp knowledge in my brain. and then stuff did come back to me. this is all very much low hanging fruit and I'll add to it when I remember more interesting/quirky ones. BUT here are some things I want to know:

y'know how casey randomly suggests in his autobiography that valentino was sabotaged in the 2006 title decider? so, personally, I don't really buy this, because 'why' and also 'casey girl you are SO paranoid' - though, sure, if given the option I'd like to double check if valentino had a dud tyre (completely plausible) and also if somebody really deliberately gave him one (?? casey idk about this one). but what I'm REALLY curious about is... there's a change in his autobiography?? like I've seen this book excerpt float around online and the text is different from what's in my book!! mine's from the paperback version so I assume there may have been some edits for that, so that would make it the newer version... but like. this is a real editorial change. check this out:

version posted on the internet, from the hard cover edition???

version in my book, first paragraph is the same

But as soon as the lights went out Valentino was in trouble. I was one of six riders to pass him on the first lap and if you watch the footage you can see how much he is struggling to even keep up with us. His rear and front tyres were just not working together and on lap five the front inexplicably folded and he went down, right behind me. I couldn't help but wonder how he could be having such problems with his tyres. Could he really have been stitched up? It seemed so improbable, but I remember watching that race back in the motorhome that evening and thinking, Welcome to my world, mate.

this isn't 'gossip' because I haven't found anyone else who has spotted this, but like? that's a substantive change? if my one really is the newer one? ...?

let's set aside the fascinating insight you get into casey's knotty and at times bizarre valentino rossi complex with him adding the line "welcome to my world, mate" (oh my god. please just take him to dinner. I will crowd fund this I literally just need to be able to listen in. casey come on CALL him I NEED you to do the dinner thing, YOU suggested it not me). like we're not going to even touch that. but if my version really is the updated one, then he's kinda softened his stance, no?? "convinced he was stitched up" to "could he really have been stitched up"

what happened?? who wanted this change? casey? an editor? did dorna give casey a call? did some poor bloke from pr have to politely ask whether casey could please not state in his autobiography that the most popular rider ever had had a title stolen from him by the establishment?

(casey was talking about valentino's stolen tenth BEFORE it was popular. he did it even before valentino did, bless)

"there are a lot of commercial interests in the sport" also didn't make the jump to the 'new version', mind you. did Big America get to casey

come on you guys have to admit this is an odd change?? does nobody else thing this is weird??

okay fine moving on

Did Valentino Literally Curse Sete

(like. not literally as in did he curse curse sete, literally as in did he say it)

(though if he did literally literally curse curse sete, I suppose I'd also like to know that bit)

the commentators in 2003 brno say so and I'm inclined to believe them, but I need to double check whether sete and valentino really were partying on ibiza together right after that very painful valentino loss at the sachsenring. such a fascinating little detail, that's not something post-2004 valentino does I reckon

I mean, look, obviously a bunch of things from that time period I want to have fact checked. including valentino's friend hearing sete say in late 2003 that valentino wasn't going to be smiling so much after joining yamaha. classic bit of gossip, did it actually happen though

I've referenced this a few times before, but y'know how valentino said that marc's manager alzamora told him after sepang 2015 that marc had been angry at valentino for killing his title charge? I just want. to know. if this conversation actually happened. I don't think valentino would pluck a lie like that out of thin air, especially something so specific about somebody on marc's team, and he has known alzamora for decades but like. maybe almazora just said something valentino misinterpreted? I just find this such a bonkers thing from alzamora if it's true that I would like it confirmed for my own sanity, you know?

yeah look I would like to know if marc really did get casey kicked out of honda, obviously I've discussed this before and it's very he said she said but yeah it'd be fun to know the truth

this is literally peak gossip because I can't find a source for it but I swear a journalist did say it: the rumour is that marc blocked joan mir from joining honda in 2019. like, I'm only including this because I was explicitly asked for gossip as I just cannot find where it was said... but it is something that is. out there. and... again, just curious. like I buy it, but also it could be bullshit!

on a similar note, did he ever make clear to honda he didn't want either vinales or rinsy on his team circa 2016? was it just a vibe in the paddock or was this an actual demand from marc?

speaking of!! the whole thing about alzamora basically rigging the moto3 teammate situation between rinsy and alex marquez to ensure the latter won the title that year. what was that all about, how far did they go there

switching to valentino now. this doesn't quite fit the remit of the question because it IS something I've investigated. and my conclusion is basically a big *shrug*

did valentino block casey from joining yamaha in either 2005 or 2006, and did he attempt to block jorge?

there are completely contradictory sources on the timeline here that do make me feel like there's a chance yamaha was just fucking with casey at the very least in 2006 and valentino had fuck all to do with it, which a recent interview from casey did actually hint at too... he made it sound like maybe yamaha was just using him to try to drive down the price of another rider (which would then presumably be jorge)

I just want to know! and the thing is, it was a matter of open paddock discussion that valentino blocked casey (jorge explicitly references it in in 2007), but something doesn't quite add up between what jorge, casey, colin edwards, articles from the time and lin jarvis have said on the subject! my current pet theory is that valentino blocked casey in 2005 from joining the satellite yamaha team in 2006 (weirdly casey doesn't really imply valentino was responsible for this one in his autobiography, but whatever) but NOT in 2006 (casey does imply valentino was responsible here, you see my problem). and yamaha was fucking around with all four of valentino, casey, jorge and edwards in late 2006/2007. but. yeah. I have unanswered questions

the entire 'alex marquez blocked from yamaha' situation.... again. something is off there. you know the story from late last year about how he was blocked in 2019 from joining the petronas team in 2021? this completely threw me, because there was an entirely different story about this YEARS back in 2018!! I initially assumed the two stories were about the same event, but it can't have been! one's him being blocked in 2019 for 2021, one's him being blocked in 2018 for 2019

from the descriptions of both there's also no confusing them. the 2018 story has to be about the 2018 contract cycle because that's quite literally when it was published, and the 2023 story has to be about the 2019 contract cycle because it explicitly references the space fabio would create by moving to the factory team for 2021, which obviously wouldn't make sense before fabio's actual rookie season. like they have to be about different stories

and in that same 2018 story, marc said that back in 2016 lin jarvis told him no marquez would be joining yamaha:

again, this was in 2018!!

plus, he did say back in 2016 that he'd spoken to jarvis, which kinda backs up this is a conversation that did happen and marc isn't just misremembering the timeline/lying (the notion of marc joining yamaha in 2017 is fantastic, what an absolutely horrendous idea):

now what marc says in 2018 about his conversation with lin jarvis is very similar to petronas yamaha boss razali saying in 2023 that he'd been told by yamaha no marquez was allowed at yamaha. suggests that this is a thing that did happen!!

but again... razali was told that in 2019... after marc had already been told the same thing three years before that, and the exact same deal had already been blocked one year earlier... does nobody else think this is weird?? like, I'm not saying yamaha hq covered themselves in glory here, but is it not a little strange the satellite yamaha squad had basically almost signed a contract with the younger marquez again without checking in with yamaha, just ONE YEAR after this same contract had already been blocked???

again this isn't actually gossip because I'm apparently the only person going ?? about this but I'll say it: ??

kinda been annoying me since december last year, like I know it doesn't matter but I'm just curious about it! why's nobody else talking about the 2018 story!

idk my best guess here is that petronas yamaha was faffing about and playing weird games with the factory team, that the deal was never as likely to happen as they made it sound to the marquez camp. zero proof, that's me spreading rumours yeah... time to create some of my own unfounded gossip

(also of course I'm curious if valentino did have any actual involvement in this. like if lin jarvis was telling marc this in the year of our lord 2016, I'm assuming valentino didn't have to explicitly say to jarvis that 'inviting marc to the team for 2017' wasn't exactly high on his christmas wish list. it is interesting that marc frames it as jarvis making this about. like. all the marquez's way back in 2016, and again, would this really have been on valentino's radar at the time? that feels a bit...? alex marquez was thirteenth in that moto2 season? would certainly be very... thorough for valentino to already have had that particular talk with jarvis)

(mind u there's a fun moment in a 2019 presser where valentino is sitting between the two marquez brothers and the younger marquez is being asked about his contract situation, the implication being he'd had a motogp deal and no longer had a motogp deal. and he's answering and marc's doing his freak stare and valentino is Right There sitting between them... I <3 mess)

man did valentino actually ever fucking block anyone from joining his manufacturer #notmygoat. I still think he didn't know about jorge until the deal was basically done, had nothing to do with the younger marquez, at most blocked casey the one time but then yamaha wasn't actually seriously intending on signing casey in 2006 and was just using it as a play in their jorge negotiations, which.... idk. bit disappointing if true icl. I hope he blocked someone, I'll say it

(also. okay. I don't want to sound awful here because I do have a lot of sympathy for baby!casey but. ignoring the morality for a second, I do LOVE the idea that valentino blocked casey from getting a satellite yamaha seat fresh off his 250cc runner up season because it would conclusively prove valentino did ABSOLUTELY rate casey!! like he didn't even want casey to come close to being his teammate!! not even a sniff at his data!!) (genuinely this is the rumour I'm choosing to believe, I know there's a chance valentino didn't successfully block anyone and was just a complete flop but I want the 2005 one to be true. it really adds something to the rivalry idk... like ugh valentino saw how dangerous casey was proper early when much of the paddock wasn't yet convinced... cute)

moving on

there was a rumour in 2015 that valentino approached dani after aragon to complain about how sturdy his defence was, like moaning about denying him points and shit. now, there's exactly one article about this in marca that is the sole origin point for the rumour, and it says that valentino also interrupted a honda party after phillip island to complain to marc. this does not match up at all with anything either marc or valentino have said since then - and would mean you have to believe that marc wasn't actually blindsided by that presser... also feels a bit unlikely we would have heard NOTHING from any other source if vale was really gatecrashing a honda party

of course, neither dani nor valentino have spoken about this supposed post-aragon 2015 meeting either, not even when dani was kinda accusing valentino of hypocrisy during sepang 2015, but I suppose you could say maybe dani's just not the type of guy to bring it up again. however.... I do reckon occam's razor kinda applies here and if one of these stories is bullshit then they probably both are, plus it's not like marca is exactly a neutral source. still would love to be certain!! instinctively I don't really think that's valentino's style at all, but of course it'd be intriguing if the story were true because it'd be a sign of how 2015 kinda messed with him. but I still feel 2015 is more about him falling back on past tools he'd mostly discarded - rather than, like, acting wildly out of character, which again... well, this brings us back to how that kind of behaviour isn't really valentino's style. basically, I don't buy it, but that's kinda why I am so curious about it? because I feel like it would be really interesting and quirky if he had actually done that. does this make any sense

speaking of, again this doesn't really count because I did kinda investigate it last year.... but you know when valentino in that podcast referenced a conversation with marc around the time of sepang 2015, where marc stared blankly at him? I have a hunch about when that conversation happened, want to know if it's right. this also isn't really 'gossip' because this is a conversation I'm having with myself but

y'know when bez was injured on the ranch late-ish last year? a bunch of journalists pointed out how hush hush they were about what actually happened to bez - like they repeatedly drew attention to that because god knows THEY love some gossip lol. which probably means nothing, but I'm curious what the journalists' theory here is, like do they think it was an embarrassing injury?? OR. look. I suppose the conspiracy theory would be that pecco caused it (obviously accidentally!!) and everyone at the ranch knew it'd be a terrible look if they admitted that because of the whole title fight situation. call me casey stoner because those dots are not real and definitely have not been connected

okay, you know how there were rumours in the spanish tabloids bez said some real ugly stuff to marc at valencia last year, and bez didn't directly address it but freaked a little and did a sort of blanket denial that he'd said anything that bad? I don't actually think he did tbh, but again. would just like to check!

while we're already on bez, there was one report that the switch to aprilia was partly motivated by marc to factory ducati. again, not entirely sure I buy that this would factor into his thinking beyond the obvious 'this means the route to that factory ducati seat looks even more closed than it already did' angle'.... it's very much down my list of priorities but I'd quickly confirm/deny it if given the chance yeah

that's all for now lol

#these all feel INCREDIBLY boring but i'm stuck 2/3 of the way through a bunch of different asks and this was fast and fun so #anon i will return to this when i think of more interesting ones. my brain gave up on me. these are all so basic bleh #man i'm gonna miss lin i swear he was always up to some shit #i see u buddy. i know u were flat out lying to colin edwards for like. half a year. i see u #//#brr brr #batsplat responds #“welcome to my world mate” caseyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy #every day i wake up and think about Her (all the things casey wants to tell valentino but has never gotten the chance to)#like he canonically factually actually wants valentino to know what casey's pov on that rivalry was... doesn't that make you CRAZY #he doesn't want to interrogate valentino he wants to confess to him... he wants valentino to Understand... makes me ill #u know it's also like... because valentino literally has said Nothing substantive about that rivalry since mid 2013 #has casey like... noticed? I'm sure he doesn't WANT valentino to keep insulting him but idk it's kind of a bit. hm #like if you ARE looking for closure and YOU are still talking about it a lot but the other guy is just. Not. would that bother you?#idk!! maybe it really is completely a confessional impulse for him. casey constantly wanting to get his story out there #and not really caring what valentino contributes. that he's stopped contributing at all. orrrrr WOULD he like valentino to *respond*#does he want confirmation valentino is even seeing this stuff!! sending it out into the ether and waiting for the echo gahhhhh #what was this post about again #THE FUNDAMENTAL ALIENATION OF FEELING UNSEEN BY YOUR FOIL WHO SHOULD UNDERSTAND YOU BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE #alien tag

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