#boundaries as fans and shippers

[stormblessed95]

Of the many things that bother me about fansites, the main one is probably that the boys don't get to approve which photos of them are published or used for merchandise when it's not official content. The second thing is that we see how they get mobbed at airports and how much pressure they're under to act friendly and smile for photos no matter how they feel. Especially since big hit has asked fans not to show up at airports and the only reason we know when they're traveling is because the information gets leaked without their consent.

When I saw people supporting black n white I assumed that she at least followed the rules about not going to the airport and not sneaking cameras into concerts, but I've seen both types of photos from her. So I was wondering if you could explain why jikookers seem so okay with her and not other fansites?

So I'll post this ask, with the very clear statement at the beginning that I'm not opening this up for debate. Because this is one of those topics of debate that continuously circle around constantly and it's exhausting and repeating myself is something im trying to do less over here this year. My essay of an answer starts here...

Okay, so I'm pretty sure that this came from you seeing this reblog post below. But I'm curious if you actually read it. Because I'm pretty sure it answers your question. Along with the post I LINKED in my reblog because that goes into the culture of fansites in kpop even more.

But then if we want to talk about it more... we can I guess. Since you asked nicely. Fansites in kpop can kind of be linked to the equivalent of concert photographers in the US. If you know what those are/are more familiar with the concert scene in the US. Idk where you are from though. Concert photographers are in general pretty respected and hyped up in the US, even at times have their photos from the concert purchased by the artists themselves. They aren't employed by the stadium, by the artist or the artists companies though usually. They aren't shunned by fans or banned from the concerts. And they share the photos they take online and even sell them, no issues. It's basically the same thing.

Fansites are, for the most part, a very normal, expected and intricate part of kpop culture. Most of the boys often recongize, smile, wave and bow at their fansites (and no, not just at places where they are forced to act like they are okay with it when they aren't, like airports, but at concerts and award shows or going back further in time, fansigns and ISAC events). Or they will move to let the fansite get the best shot of the members they are a fansite for. Compared to when it's a known problematic fansite who are more stalker then fansite, they don't do that and there are even videos/photos of them looking uncomfortable when recognizing that fansite, rather than smiling for them. Like Headliner, for example, A JK "fansite" where we have examples of him looking displeased in her direction and an example of Jimin standing in front of JK in her line of sight, "ruining" the shot and looking right at her, hands on hips.

And because I mentioned above airports, like you did. Let's talk about that too. Because I DO have a post up here reeming people out for showing up to and crowding the boys at airports. It's horribly disrespectful and not okay. Fansites (like BnW and other respectful ones) aren't generally the people you see shoving their phones in the guys faces, they tend to hang back with the media mostly and not get so far up their asses, invading personal space. And media is tipped off when the guys are traveling so they can go and report on it. Its FANS who invade privacy to show up that's a problem, not necessarily the media or fansites, which is expected as an idol. Do I LIKE they are expected to be photographed to hell and back when leaving and entering Korea? Not really, but it's also not the same thing as invading their privacy either. Following them into the airport and onto the plane or to their destination to take photos of them on the plane, at the waiting areas or getting off the plane? Yeah, that's an invasion of privacy and then upgrades you (general you) to stalker. And here is my post about how you shouldn't go to the airport when BTS is traveling. Again, please actually read my posts I link to you.

As for the consent about the boys aproving photos/videos argument, I then have to ask are you against everyone who livestreams the concert on their phones for ARMYs who aren't there to tune in? Or all the people who put the photos up they take at concerts or other events up onto the timeline? Or because it's not a fansite photo, just a watermarked photo from some random fan account, that's then okay? I don't know you, so idk how you personally interact with everything like above, but it's food for thought. It's also something to consider to make sure if you ARE so against fansites, that you aren't liking, retreating, saving, etc photos of any of the members that come from fansites. (The jikook photo above comes from a Jimin fansite btw) Because I'm pretty sure Almost every ARMY has, intentionally or otherwise. Because MOST concert/event photos end up coming from fansigns. And the boys KNOW that and are okay with it. And the company isn't struggling anymore. If they didn't want people "filling in the gaps" of available photos, they could hire more themselves and release more too.

To address your comments about them selling or distributing merch with their photos of the boys that the boys didn't get to pre-approve. That's fair. And it's also your choice to support that or not. Personally, I probably won't buy fansite photobooks, I'd rather spend my money on what I know will go towards the boys pocket directly, or at least towards them. Such as their official photobooks, albums, DVD packages, etc. But all the photos the fansites sell, they also normally just release for free too online. At least that I've seen. And then all those photos they have, they will sometimes hold events for people to buy them as merch. But that's a customer choice for sure. And it's 100% valid to not like that and not spend your money there. BlacknWhite for example, held her own little merch photo exhibition thing last year. Idk what to call it, but I posted here so it did happen for sure. Bighit hosts these same similar types of exhibitions at the end of various eras/concerts you can also purchase from more officially too.

But also again, all idols know about fansites and often start recognizing the ones that are there for them and don't mind them (as long as they aren't crossing privacy boundaries, which I will touch on later here too). For some examples, here you've got Jimin being playful and silly with his fansite here when he saw them...

Changing to make sure the fansites could get better photos during the fansign....

Using/wearing and loving gifts given to them and sent by their fansigns

He still has these focal speakers in his studio. Which was a gift from a fansite way back when

Jikook engaging with BlacknWhite when she is there taking their photos.... AND you'll see in my reblog (first linked post) the post I shared in there, Jimin seeing, acknowledging and moving out of the way for a Hobi fansite so they can get a better shot of him too

Tae had a photo from his fansite blown up and hung on his dorm wall.

Hobi shared a photo taken by his fansite on his Instagram too

Plus, Jimins family (idk about the others, Jimins is just more in the public eye because of his dad's Cafe) had fansite photos of Jimin and BTS hanging on their cafe walls. Jimins dad recently gave a fansite photo to a visiting dignitary that he got framed.

JK blushing over seeing his first ever fansite back during their debut.

The reason Fansites will sometimes get kicked out of concerts is because they are blacklisted (which most are not) for various reasons but mostly due to proven stalking or for misconduct during a concert (which again. Doesn't happen as often as stan twt will lead you to believe.) Bighit baned all photography, so it's not even necessarily about fansites, it's about Hybe wanting to bottle and sell the air the guys breathe because they know ARMY would buy it. Lol they are a corporate company and are focused on the bottom line more than alot of fans like to think at times I believe. A lot of the hate towards fansites comes from people who don't really understand idol culture at times and almost always exlculsively from I- armys. I don't see K army fans complaining about fansites. I see BTS members complaining about media, fans and fansites following them to places like, the mall, or on the private schedules, and overcrowding them. But never about fansites being in events, concerts, or airports from afar. In fact, from the ones who aren't problems, I see the opposite from the members. Jikookers like BnW because she is a jikook fansite and focuses on getting photos of them together and seperate, so it's like a one stop party. Lol other JK and JM fansites will share photos of jikook together when they are glued at the hip (which is often) along with when they with other members too, which is also nice and you'll see plently of people sharing those with no problems either. Again, as long as they aren't problematic accounts.

Fansites who take photos of the guys on private schedules? No. Who get on planes the boys are on? No. Who shit talk the boys and use them only for the cash flow their photos bring them? No. Who stalk them and show up places they shouldn't be and turn into sasaengs and doing anything for a quick buck? No. Fansites who crowd into the boys personal space for the perfect photo or are rude to them/others? No. Fansites who don't take no for an answer? No. But that's a small portion of fansites. Not all of them. Not even close to all of them. And alot of this hate towards fansites comes off more performative for most armys then anything else. Plus saying all fansites are bad is kinda like saying all ARMYs are 15 year old girls who bully people online because a small faction are and that's what people latch onto in an effort to continue to perpetuate hate towards the fandom and BTS themselves through their fans. Not the same exactly, but similar enough I'll make the comparison.

Your opinions are your own and are very valid. I'm not trying to change your mind about liking fansites. I don't love them necessarily either because I would HATE the constant flashing lights everywhere I went ever if I was them. But I also understand the nuance here and the difference between the hysteria stan spaces have made the fansite issues sound and what they actually are and how long they've been around for. Again, your choice over how you engage with them and how you feel about them. And all choices around that are valid. In my opinion. As long as you aren't supporting antis disguised as fansites, I don't see a problem with them in general. For me personally.

Hope that helped answer your question anon. Thank you for asking it respectfully.

[selfship-vent-confessions]

I will never understand non-sharing. Their F/Os are just fictitious characters, they are not their property. :/

It's usually for comfort. Some people are just very closely attached to the characters and thus feel uncomfortable sharing them. Sometimes it's because they're ficto in some way and thus view the characters as being genuine partners cause the love for them is the same as any nonfictional relationship (which is completely valid, by the way), and sometimes it's just because they don't want to for their own reasons

Yes, some people can be rude about being not open to sharing, but not all non-sharers are aggressive about it. Most are fans just like you who want to feel safe in their community just like you do. Most don't even view the characters as their "property", they just don't feel comfortable interacting with those who have the same F/O as them. It's a boundary and should be respected just as much as people that are okay with sharing

I'm mainly answering this just to give some information, but this is a safe space for sharers and non-sharers. You gotta realize that to some people these aren't just "fictitious characters", and selfshipping is a lot more personal.

[7clubs]

made this for IG bc i'm starting to repost my work there but eh routine reminder

[svtskneecaps]

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[the-muppet-joker]

Greetings, Homosapians.

My name? Heh. Don't be so coy.

Kermit. Croaker. Joker. Clown Prince of Crime. Bro Strider. The Original Adam. Vriska Serket. I am a man of many names, so keep up unless you want to be schooled by myself or my league of dedicated followers. Mess with Croaker Nation if you dare. Don't ask me about my Pro Nouns unless you want me to roll my eyes at you and kick you. HARD. I train my kicks for hours every day, so bones WILL be broken.

♤♡◇♧

DNI:

Other Kermit/Joker kintypes

People who frequently post about Dennys (I have Dennys trauma. Genuinely fuck all of you Dennys enjoyers! Toxic.)

Anyone who kins Gonzo or Batman. Fuck you, Batsy... *voice drops to a low growl* And double fuck you, Gonzo.

Protestants. (Self Explanatory)

Klance shippers-- annoying.

Brennan Lee Mulligan apologists.

People under 21, just a personal preference, please respect it

Anyone who engages with Harry Potter-- fuck terfs and fuck JKR!

Snape apologists

Anyone who violates my previous DNI. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND RESPECT MY BOUNDARIES. It is not my job to do emotional labor for you and tell you what those boundaries are. Be respectful and figure it out.

One exception to my previous DNI, however: Women may interact with my blog. You see, I have been reading a webcomic called Homestuck and awakened a Vriska kintype in the process. It has made me realize how close minded I have been and that hating an entire gender based on shallow stereotypes is reductive and harmful.

Men DNI. I am an advocate for the feminist movement and have made it my sworn duty to destroy those who oppose it.

Good Omens fans. Y'all are annoying.

Tumblr user Strange Aeons. DO NOT INTERACT or I will get you with my sword. Consider yourself warned.

As for those of you who are afraid of seeing what real darkness and depravity looks like? Heh........

Run While You Can.

[fo-sama]

Shoutout to self shippers who keep seeing highly triggering fanon (or even parts of canon) regarding their f/os.

Your f/o adores you and they would never do anything to hurt you in any way!

No matter what popular fan headcanons say your f/o is like and what they would/wouldn’t do in a relationship, you are your f/o’s lover and you know them best!

you are your f/o’s most beloved treasure and favourite person who they will always treat with the utmost care and respect, just as you do for them.

They will always respect your boundaries, always be healthily protective of you and always respect any triggers you might have, even if others won’t.

They deeply love you beyond what words could ever say! your safety and comfort is their absolute top priority!<3

[helpallthenamesaretaken]

The Judo Flip Scene; The Scene that Divided the Percy Jackson Fandom: What Went Wrong?

Annabeth grabbed his wrist and flipped him over her shoulder. He slammed into the stone pavement. Romans cried out. Some surged forward, but Reyna shouted, “Hold! Stand down!”

Annabeth put her knee on Percy’s chest. She pushed her forearm against his throat. She didn’t care what the Romans thought. A white-hot lump of anger expanded in her chest—a tumor of worry and bitterness that she’d been carrying around since last autumn.

“If you ever leave me again,” she said, her eyes stinging, “I swear to all the gods—”

Percy had the nerve to laugh. Suddenly the lump of heated emotions melted inside Annabeth.

“Consider me warned,” Percy said. “I missed you, too.

-Mark of Athena

This scene is one of the, if not most, controversial scenes in the entirety of Rick Riordan's books. It has caused many fans to go deep into the morality of the scene--into the question of boundaries, whether it is just a good boundaries into Percy and Annabeth's relationships or just abusive behaviour. In this post, I will talk about my opinion on, 'What went wrong?'

First, let us dissect this scene, shall we? We have Annabeth, who has lost her only proof of permanence for six months. The guy she was dreading would die for five years before she thought they had their happy ending was suddenly snatched in a time where she thought life couldn't get any better. During this time;

she saw jason falling in love with piper and was stressed that percy would be doing the same without her

she was stressed percy would never even remember her.

she canonically spent hundreds and thousands of drachmas (and probably time too) on iris messaging every monster and god she could just so that she could find him

she spent a WHOLE lot of energy on this.

she was probably advised by people in camp to find another guy, probably got these comments regularly

she was also troubled by athena's roman form to find athena parthenos statue and ditch finding percy, which must have been hard to handle

she was in charge of helping build a WHOLE WAR SHIP

she was also in charge of rebuilding the home of the gods

And you know what? It makes sense that she would have all of these emotions buried inside her. It makes sense that she would be angry, stressed, and depressed and that she would bury all of this inside. "During their separation, something had happened to Annabeth’s feelings. They’d grown painfully intense—like she’d been forced to withdraw from a life-saving medication. Now she wasn’t sure which was more excruciating—living with that horrible absence, or being with him again" Yep, homegirl was going through some stuff.

Though we don't know what his thoughts were on his point of view, from the fact that he laughs and never brings it up later, we can conclude that Rick wanted us to know that he didn't care, and that these interactions are common between both of them, though one could argue that isn't really reliable.

So; Annabeth having an outburst of emotions is a completely normal reaction, judging the amount of things she has gone through, even though it isn't the right way to express her feelings. But, why is the judo flip scene actually bad? Why did it give even percabeth shippers the ick?

The Way Rick Wrote It: Rick treated the scene as if it was funny, Annabeth was such a girly girlboss who did it to keep Percy in his place. "I only judoflip my boyfriend". And people were mad. Mad that girls are portrayed to be girlbosses by making them violent. Mad that this violence was against a guy who was implied to be abused in his childhood.

My Argument: This scene was written in a time where media with violent comedy was popular among kids (tom and jerry, oggy and the cockroaches, i see you), and that it aged badly. Another important thing: a lot of the fandom also thought of it as percabeth's most romantic moments, and hyped it up so much, which contributes towards the whole ick of the scene.

My Argument: One thing to take into account was that the romans were really on guard when the greeks arrived. they were scared it was going to be an ambush. so when annabeth judoflips percy, their nerves took over. i fully believe the humor of 'i only judoflip my bf' was just their way of diffusing a potentially dangerous situation of misunderstanding.

But in the end I do agree, the way this was written was a major disservice to the feelings that Annabeth was experiencing that time. Rick failed to portray that scene as an exhausted traumatised teenager having an unhealthy outburst of emotions, which is what it really was. Instead, he tried to make it a funny type of scene, and the fandom carried it forward by hyping the scene up as if it was one of percabeth's most romantic moments, and even though the intentions were good, he failed to convey the meaning behind what they said properly.

So now that we've answered the question this post was made for, I'd like to end this post with a positive note. I'd like to point out that in cotg, there is no moment that annabeth physically hurted (hurted is too much of an overstatement) percy if you think about it, which shows that she has improved. If you want proof, I searched any time where Annabeth teased percy physically when he said something 'stupid' and what I found was 'nudged me with her toe' and 'lightly pinched me'. So, even though Rick messed up in writing that one scene more than ten years ago, it's safe to say he has improved.

****************************************************************

[darcytaylor]

Nicola Coughlan Bet on Herself - and Won (Time Article)

What a great read! Nicola's TIME interview offers a glimpse into her journey from struggling actress to Bridgerton star, while also talking about how she handles the pressures of fame. From her views on the double standards in Hollywood to the ongoing speculation about her personal life.

Nicola is very candid about the pressures that come with fame. While she’s grateful for the opportunities Bridgerton has afforded her, she speaks openly about the uncomfortable scrutiny she faces. The public obsession with every detail of her life, including her weight, is something she calls out in the interview.

This interview also came before her statement about not filming strangers in public (although it is a possibility that they added this to the interview afterwards), when her location was leaked and she was filmed leaving a theatre. The incident prompted her to make a story about in on her Instagram.

It’s a reminder that her boundaries probably weren’t newly formed - they were already in place, and the incident in New York likely pushed her to call it out publicly.

Some have questioned why Nicola responded to that particular incident and not others. But as I’ve written about before on my blog, the specific circumstances in New York - her location being leaked - likely made her feel particularly vulnerable and triggered her decision to speak out.

Another layer that I think could be worth mentioning about Nicola speaking on the leaking of real-time locations, is the issue that Luke had over the summer with his friend group sharing his location in real-time. While Nicola doesn’t directly address that, it’s possible that witnessing how this played out could have contributed to her sensitivity regarding location leaks. Even if she wasn't directly referring to that particular incident, it's likely she felt strongly about it.

One of the most talked about moments in this article is when she discusses her relationship with Luke. I found it hilarious how she worded everything. She praises her “gorgeous friendship” with Luke but strategically avoids confirming or denying any romantic involvement. While she acknowledges their close bond, she sidesteps the dating rumours, offering just enough insight to keep fans interested without revealing too much. This is classic Nicola – it leaves fans room to speculate, but it also reinforces that a deep connection between a man and woman doesn’t always have to be romantic.

(So, my Lukola shipper followers, feel free to keep guessing - Nicola’s phrasing suggests she doesn’t mind the speculation!)

Another part of Nicola’s story, is the influence of her late father. He helped shape her worldview, giving her a perspective on why it's important to speak out. And why she speaks out about the causes she does.

Although Nicola hasn’t explicitly linked the passing of her father to her views on privacy, it’s possible that such a personal loss has influenced her approach to life, family, and relationships. Losing someone so close might have made her more protective of the people she holds dear and more determined to set firm boundaries when it comes to her personal life.

I loved this article and also the photographs that came along with it! Also - The duo have more intimate moments in Season 4 and will also have something else to manage: Polin’s “crazy cute” onscreen baby. YES!!! Bring on season 4 married Polin!

[stormblessed95]

When Couples are being overly Couplely on Social Media.....

I'm not saying it's true for everyone, but I agree here. And I think that some sects of fans want a relationship to be performed online for THEM, while forgetting that a relationship isn't and shouldn't be performative. It's not private, it's just not overly amped up to the point of being fake for you.

Couldn't find the OG video, so ignore the video on the right. I'm just here to share what they are saying on the left lol

[theunsinkableship1]

Help! I'm in a parasocial relationship with Lukola.

⚠️DISCLAIMER: This is LUKOLALAND only. Skip this if you're not a shipper. This is only my point of view. No harm intended.

Like many of us in Lukolaland, I fell for POLIN first, their fictional chemistry was attractive, and it pulled me in. But it wasn’t long before I fell harder for LUKOLA captivated by their real-life magnetic chemistry, the undeniable connection between the actors behind the characters which is absolutely based on friendship, but which I also believe is so much more than that. LUKOLA is now an increasingly significant part of my daily life, and while I don’t exactly know how or why I got here, here I am, steady aboard this ship. As someone experiencing this for the first time and seeing a lot of criticism towards the Lukola fandom, I wanted to reflect on what’s really going on here. After already delving into the negativity within the fandom in two previous posts, I now want to focus on the broader conversation about the legitimacy of our community.

A parasocial relationship is a one-sided connection where one party, usually a fan, becomes emotionally invested in a celebrity, fictional character, or public figure who doesn’t reciprocate that same level of personal connection. It’s a common phenomenon, especially in the digital age, where media blurs the lines between public personas and real people.

People often criticize shipping real people, like Luke and Nicola, claiming it’s “weird” or even invasive. I’ll admit, there’s a strangeness to it, and boundaries are important. But is it fair to label us as crazy for simply being invested in a connection we perceive? If we think about it, we “ship” people in our real lives all the time rooting for our friends to get together, hoping our favorite colleagues will hit it off. It’s human nature to be invested in connections we care about.

People say that the World Tour was only PR and that we are delusional to think they are together in real life. Most of us don’t think they’re together now that’s exactly why we’re shipping them, we saw something exceptional between them and we definitely think that they should be together, that’s the point. We can differentiate actors from characters that’s why we call them LUKOLA and not POLIN. There may have been some blurred lines and some real-life mirroring but that’s not the bulk of it.

It is true that the way the promotion was handled for season 3 intentionally blurred those lines. The marketing campaign, press interviews, and social media content often leaned heavily into the chemistry between the leads, with subtle implications that left room for fan speculation about a real-life relationship.

It’s important to address why dismissing the dynamic between Luke and Nicola as mere PR or labeling those who see a genuine connection as "crazy" is not okay.

The connection between Luke and Nicola has been evident for years, not just during the World Tour but also in their past public interactions and behind-the-scenes footage. Observers have noted consistent emotional undertones like shared glances, supportive gestures, and a natural intimacy that goes beyond professional behavior, suggesting a bond that isn't easily fabricated by PR. Their closeness has been acknowledged by some cast, crew, and even friends and family members, further validating what fans have perceived.

Many dismiss their relationship as PR due to biases rooted in celebrity culture, where staged romances are common. This skepticism often leads people to view all interactions as scripted, making it easier to label the connection as fake rather than recognizing the complexities of genuine human emotions unfolding under public scrutiny. Critics often struggle to separate the actors' real-life bond from their on-screen personas, overlooking the authenticity of their unscripted moments. Calling fans “crazy” for believing in their connection imposes a narrow view on what is clearly a nuanced and personal dynamic between Luke and Nicola.

It’s worth questioning why shipping fictional characters whose fates are pre-written and often predictable is more accepted than shipping real people who exhibit real chemistry and connection, on-screen and off. Fictional characters are constructed for our entertainment and should have a lesser impact on our reality, but when it comes to real-life dynamics, the thrill often lies in the authenticity and unpredictability.

Those dismissing the Lukola fandom often do so from a place of bias, without recognizing that many fans are deeply invested and knowledgeable about what they see behind the scenes, during interviews, and on social media. To us, the connection between Luke and Nicola isn’t just a fleeting fantasy, it’s something rooted in countless interactions that we’ve seen unfold publicly and sometimes even subtly in their private behaviors.

Some people also dismiss Lukola because they can’t fathom the connection due to their own preconceptions, like claiming Nicola isn’t Luke’s “type” based on superficial judgments. But connection often defies typecasting; it’s about shared moments, mutual respect, and chemistry that goes beyond looks or what we think we know about a person’s preferences. Critics often label fans as “crazy” for seeing a genuine connection between Luke and Nicola, imposing their own biases on them. These narrow views overlook the real, evolving nature of personal connections. Nicola's or Luke’s perceived divergences from the “ideal” partner is often unfairly judged, reflecting broader societal biases, including gendered scrutiny and fan projections. These misperceptions say more about public expectations than about Luke and Nicola’s real relationship, which is a deeply personal and nuanced relationship; Dismissing their bond because it challenges existing narratives. Recognizing the authenticity of their bond isn’t about fantasy; it’s about understanding the complexities of human relationships, especially under public scrutiny.

The Lukola fandom isn’t just a collection of people projecting their fantasies; it’s a group that sees a unique, genuine bond between two people, one that even some of their castmates, crew members, and close friends have noticed and commented on. Our community is about celebrating that bond and exploring the emotions it evokes, not just blindly fantasizing about it. The criticisms we face often come from people who view things through a biased lens, dismissing our perceptions often because they don’t align with theirs.

Lukola fandom provide an outlet for creativity, where fans can engage in discussions, create fan art, write fanfiction, and explore different interpretations of the interactions they love. It offers a sense of belonging and community, connecting people with shared interests. For many of us, being part of this fandom provides a supportive environment where we can express ourselves without being called crazy or delusional.

We can celebrate the content we love, helping to promote and keep the interest alive in Lukola and Bridgerton, and their other projects. This can contribute to the longevity of the careers and even influence future productions. The Lukola fandom has a right to exist and can be a positive community as long as its members engage responsibly. The key is maintaining a healthy balance between enjoying the content and respecting the personal lives of those involved in its creation.

We as fans should strive to maintain an objective perspective, appreciating Lukola’s work and interactions without crossing into invasive and illegal activities, entitlement or unrealistic expectations.

We should approach this with more tact and care, very demurely very mindfully, avoiding putting too much pressure on them to prevent any unintended consequences. It's important to keep our content within our community and minimize direct interactions, such as tagging or sharing posts with them, as much as possible. Let’s create a respectful space that doesn’t intrude on their personal boundaries.

In the end, it’s not about whether it’s right or wrong to ship real people; it’s about respecting the emotional investment of others and recognizing that these connections whether real or imagined bring joy, comfort, and community to many of us in Lukolaland.

[pan-withnoplan]

@lakewillowmerewraith let me tell you something about boundaries.

I run a confession blog for a different fandom. It's mostly a positive environment, but as with most fandoms, there are also ship wars, people who thirst for "negative" characters, and occasionally rotten takes. Since the first day, I knew I had to set boundaries, but I also knew that I couldn't let those boundaries be about me and my personal preferences and dislikes. It wouldn't be fair if I deleted positive confessions about my notp/criticising my ships/depicting nsfw headcanons/shipping a beloved character with a hated character.

Because that was a blog that I made, but I made it for everybody in my fandom to feel welcome, not just those who I believed shipped/held the "correct, pure, unproblematic" ships/opinion, and it isn't fair to police real people because of fictional characters. What confessions I could reject, were those who actively hated on real people. For example: “This female character whom some people see as a transfem allegory canonically had a brief relationship with a black woman, so people who ship her with this white male character who was mean to her and "deadnamed" her are all racist, homophobic, and abuse apologists”. And “All X shippers are racist/misogynist/homohobic/etc etc” and “people who say [perfectly harmless thing] are gross/cringe. touch grass” and “stop being so damn [ableist slur]”. Those are the things I need to protect and shield my followers from, not the thirst confessions about the villain who manipulated and betrayed the female character. I also have an extensive tag system that allows people to avoid things they don't want to see. I get inbox that I don't like every day and still, as long as they aren't harmful to real people, I publish them all because it's not about what I want from my blog, it's about enriching my fandom and giving a voice to everybody. I've fucked up occasionally, but I am proud to say that mostly I have been praised for keeping a welcoming, safe, and positive space.

This is what I mean when I say that @elainarcheronweek's mods that have pushed for the decision to have certain Elain ships banned are partial, biased, and unfit to run an event that's supposed to belong to all Elain fans, not just the mods, not just the ones who they believe ship her with the correct character. It's not Healthy Elain Week, it's just Elain Week. And it's despicable that they can just decide to reject fanworks on which real people spent time and energy and feelings, just because they don't like the pairing or they make them feel icky. Because it's just that, right? You said it yourself. Not "fans feel uncomfortable about tamlain and beronlain", it's "the mods have the right to lead their event how they want to". And I say no, it's not only their event, it's Elain's event, Elain's fans's event, and no, they don't have the right to lead that event how they want to if that means punishing fans and creators because of a personal dislike. As I said, they didn't like the "icky" ships and decided to make it everyone else's problem. They "eliminated" the threat of big bad "toxic" elain ships, but they've done nothing to silence the people who accuse tamlain and beronlain shippers of being abuse apologists even when those works contain Tamlin and/or Beron redemption. This is not letting darkfic have the right to exist, it's purity culture. Denying those works a place on the platform out of a personal preference is quite literally censorship.

"But fans really have been feeling uncomfortable with tamlain and beronlain! What about them?" So use the fucking tag system. Make a post where you explain there will be works thay might trigger people and tell them to block the tamlain and beronlain tags. Ask people to suggest other potential triggers so you can update the list. Include the list of potential triggering tags in the master post. It's that simple and it would have saved the whole fandom a lot of drama and disappointment. It's always so baffling for me to think that grown ass people refuse to curate their own browsing experience or ignore the things that they dislike.

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Dear Raven ven venny ven, do you have any favourite ships in the twst cast? If so, why?

I don’t have any ships among the TWST cast that I’m crazy about! That doesn’t mean I “hate” all the combinations, it’s just that I feel neutral about most of them. I would say I’m pretty open to considering rare pairs and all kinds of tropes (enemies to lovers, childhood friends, etc.), but I’ve yet to find one in TWST that solidly lands with me.

Certainly there are dynamics I enjoy—the Science Club boys, for example—but do I see them being romantically engaged with one another? Eeeeeh, debatable. I could really go either way.

It’s actually easy to (temporarily) influence my takes on certain ships 😂 Sometimes I’ll listen to my friends talk ad nauseam about a ship they’re super into and their excitement is so infectious that it rubs off on me. I’ll go, “Wow, that really is a cute interaction! I can see why you ship them.” This had happened before with Malleus x Cater a few years back, though now I’ve returned to a neutral state on it since the shipper friend hasn’t been as active talking about the two. I appreciate my friends for popping off because even if I don’t have the same passion as they do for the ship, it helps me see the characters and their interactions under a new lens or from a different angle. (I actually wrote a fic where Cater takes Malleus to a maid cafe, inspired by my friend’s speeches about the duo. It’s meant to be platonic, but I think it could also be read as romantic if you choose to view it that way.)

I get easily influenced by fan art too, even if I don’t know the creator on a personal level. A few weeks back, I saw this Jade x Jamil post and it was so wholesome and tooth rottingly sweet (even though it was a ship I did not gave the time of day to before) 😭 And then I started to think about their similarities (both vice dorm leaders, both passive aggressive, both manipulators, etc.) and gradually convinced myself “Hey, it could work!” Now that I’ve had some time to be weaned off of the fan art though, I’m back to that baseline feeling of neutrality. It’s the exposure therapy wearing off/j

On the topic of Yuu (they’re technically a part of the TWST cast), I’m particularly lukewarm about any ships involving them—and Yuu ships are the only exception to my “I’m easily influenced to change my mind” rule; I’m always neutral about Yuu ships. They’re a blank slate, so the dynamics they have with other characters changes drastically depending on what “kind” of Yuu they are. I don’t have a Yuusona of my own, nor do I project onto Yuu, so I find little value in their character (or lack thereof). This extends to ships too; because I don’t see (my) Yuu as a “real” character, I also don’t see the potential in shipping them with those in the cast. I’ll support everyone’s right to their own Yuu and related ships, but I don’t necessarily get gung-ho about them unless I know the creators well. This is because the familiarity I have with them then extends to their Yuus; I can see bits of them and their own personalities and experiences in their Yuus, and that makes me feel like I have a more meaningful bond with whatever their interpretation (and romantic involvement!) is.

Of course, there are also some ships that I don’t like or that personally make me uncomfortable (for example, incest ships) 💦 I don’t want to like… yuck your yums, so I won’t go into explicit detail about which other ships I’m not a fan of or would prefer as platonic. Regardless of how I may feel about those, I don’t want to give the impression that I’m going to judge you for what you do or don’t ship. You do you—just be sure to respect boundaries and don’t push what you ship onto others, especially if they have indicated they’re not into the same things you are.

Just to make things clear, please do NOT send me asks like “Here is my ship and here is why you should consider it!” and “How do you feel about [Character A] x [Character B]?” or any variant (which includes polycules, love triangles, etc.). I will also not be responding to asks pressing me for which ships I dislike. I won’t be providing a tier list either since there are way too many possible combinations to account for. Shipping talk with strangers/the public makes me anxious and I’d rather not have that level of stress on a consistent basis.

Thank you for understanding ^^

[nqueso-emergency]

Re: "buddies aren't hurting anyone with their theories"

Yes but no. Some of these bigger blogs are putting huge amounts of effort into convincing people that buddie is definitely happening and eddie is definitely gay. Making up shit on the spot and declaring it as fact. Then a bunch of people (a lot of which are very young) believe them and get sucked into it. And then those fans get worked up and inevitably really upset when it turns out not to happen.

And then there's the harassment and the boundary crossing with the cast etc.

So, yeah, if a buddie shipper is just chilling and coming up with fun theories, then sure that's great. But if they're declaring those theories to be fact, denying real statements and events, and just lying to people; that's manipulation and yes it's harmful.

And it leads to extreme behaviour towards the cast, writers and to other fans. Harassing people with CP in their inbox is harm, actually.

Things have gotten way out of hand. People need to start speaking up more, especially from that side.

[ikykwklk-ash]

⚠️⚠️this is really important!!!⚠️⚠️

please read!!

I've really reached the limit of my endurance. How can you allow yourself to ask such things to someone? skz fans, but also all kpop groups out there, should really be ashamed for asking such questions to an idol. like... how can you SERIOUSLY ask "do you sleep with leeknow?" GIRL- that's enough. it's his private life, he's not your brother, he's not your friend, HE'S A PERSON LIKE ALL OF US!!!!!! I understand you ship minsung, but that's a fan thing, don't bring it up in front of them! Shipping is meant to be a silly fun and UNSERIOUS thing, the second you start to take it too seriously things go downhill and you start doing stupid shit like asking a real person to his face if he sleeps with his friend, these people piss me tf off and I'm saying this as a shipper myself. now when lee know and han stop interacting as much because you wanna open your fat fucking mouth i dont wanna hear it. RESPECT these idols, they’re people, not puppets.

some stays tend to ruin EVERYTHING the boys share with us and at some point they will just be tired and stop sharing stuff with us since some ppl can’t act normal without crossing boundaries.. bring back shame why are you acting like a weirdo???

stop letting skz talk to weirdo freaks that copy tattoos and ask them disrespectful things like calling them “mommy”. what could you possibly gain by making them uncomfortable?

I repeat: SHOW RESPECT!!! Do you have any idea how he might feel after all this??? I mean... YOU COULD SEE he was uncomfortable, YOU COULD SEE he was disappointed by this person's behavior. How can you really allow yourself to behave like this?????? How can you even call yourself a "respectful fan" if you act like this?

[scoupsahoy]

i wanna talk about The Ship War going on right now in the 911 fandom (largely on tiktok and twitter) and i'm not a bnf especially in this fandom (and i wouldn't want to be) but i'm kind of hoping people on both sides are willing to read this post anyway because i cannot be the only one completely turned off by it

i finished writing this so i wanna clarify: this is officially aimed at buddie shippers (i am one of you) because i genuinely want to have meaningful discussion and also i'm not exactly defending tommy here. but! i think if bucktommy shippers were interested in reading, there is stuff in here for you too

i have to split this up into sections which is annoying but i won't be able to make any sense without sections so. sorry

1. pre-tommy buddie shipping

so like a lot of people i knew about 911 and buddie entirely through tumblr osmosis, and there was a general attitude of confidence: buddie WILL become canon. if it doesn't... something something. i don't really know the season 6 finale was hard for a lot of you. and after watching, i do really understand why. but.

from an outside perspective, this fandom attitude was nothing like i'd ever really experienced before. i stopped watching supernatural around season 11, several years before gaycas, when confirmed bisexual dean was genuinely outside the realm of possibility.

i was a tjlc believer. i was an episode 4 conspiracist. i have been delusional about gays on my television screen before. so i was really apprehensive at the way buddie fans were moving. not only was buddie GOING to happen, but if it didn't it would be a failure of the network and the showrunners and the actors and it could have been the greatest love story ever told and shipping was not ENOUGH. it had to be canon in order to matter. shipping anything else was fruitless and offensive. this was what i was seeing. and i was like. well there's no way that's going to happen

and then season 7 started airing and there was this reignited hope

and then 7x4 aired.

2. the birth of bucktommy

so i started watching 911 after 7x4 aired. a lot of people did. i'll be honest i did genuinely think that eddie was out and gay and i was like "oh shit is it finally happening??" and then i realized it was some other guy and spend like 4 straight days tumblr deepdiving into it

like i said i was almost exclusively following buddie shippers so my consensus was like. buck and tommy are cute but it's obviously (TO ME) a steppingstone for buddie. after watching the entire show i do still feel that way.

here's the thing though: shipping isn't about what is going to be canon. i'm a marvel fan. my first fandom was fucking icarly, okay, my track record of shipping non-canon couples that actually end up together starts and ends with nbc sitcoms and even then barely. shipping to me is about character analysis and smooshing barbie dolls together with my friends. shipping to me is putting some guy in a blender and another guy performing frankenstein experiments on them

it doesn't matter to me actually that a ship isn't going to end up together, even if i like them. i'm not saying some bucktommy fans don't overstep certain boundaries (that i'll get into) but a FAIR BIT of them know this. a fair bit of them were buddie shippers and a fair bit of them still are. and there's a reason theyre put off

3. social media discourse

the first real piece of morality discourse came from tiktok. i won't namedrop this creator but if you're on tiktok you know who i'm talking about.

this person started the tiktok talking about something that i genuinely do agree with: fans who love tommy but hated all of buck's ex girlfriends should probably perform some self-reflection on the very real misogyny problem in 911 fandom and fandom in general. this i am 1000% behind. a call-in of sorts: hey guys! check yourselves! it is really easy to fall into misogyny especially with gay shipping. though i will argue that buddie shippers could stand to do the same thing (looking at you, people who write fanfic where ana flores is ableist for no reason)

they went on, however, to say that bucktommy shippers Must only like bucktommy because they are a gay ship, And Also Therefore, these people Must Be gay fetishists, as the only reason you would like bucktommy over buddie is because you just want to see men make out with each other. You People don't like gay shipping in the Correct way that i do, you like to gay ship in a nasty fetish way (only slightly exaggerating). you saw that buck and tommy kissed online and you watched the entire show just to watch men make out with each other which is Bad And Wrong.

aside from the fact that this person also literally started watching the show after 7x4 aired (and like i said so did a lot of people. one would think this is a morally neutral thing to do), this struck a nerve with me. this take (which was repeated ad nauseam by everyone in their circle) is just plainly irresponsible.

it is inappropriate to suggest that someone is like. morally reprehensible for *checking my notes* shipping a canon television couple. is tim minear a gay fetishist for writing the bucktommy kiss? is the average viewer a gay fetishist for going "oh i didn't see that coming! they seem like a nice couple"? is my mom a gay fetishist? are you calling my mom a gay fetishist??

this is an argument that i've seen happen in a billion different ways over the past decade and a half of being in fandom spaces by the way. are women allowed to read gay fanfiction? what about gay porn? what if they get off to it? are they allowed to write it themselves? what if they're not straight? what if they're not women? was casey mcquiston fetishizing gay men when they wrote red white and royal blue? is the romance genre allowed to exist with gay men and straight women in it? do you have to check everyone's gender or sexual identity at the login page for ao3 and tumblr dot com to determine if it is morally okay for them to participate in fandom at all?

and then there was the comparisons between bucktommy and buddie fic stat breakdowns: bucktommy's are writing more smut And That's Bad and buddie fans are writing stories with plot And That's Good.

it. is. irresponsible. it is oversimplifying. it is judgmental and above all else it is irrelevant. people could like bucktommy because they think they're hot or because they think theyre interesting or because buck realized he was bisexual or because they think tommy has potential as a character. it is a ship. creating a dichotomy where one ship is the morally good thing to ship and one ship is the morally bad thing to ship is irresponsible and not in the spirit of fandom.

morality and purity conversations in fandom are like. an entirely different can of worms to talk about and this is going to be long enough already. but bucktommy shippers shot back with the same energy:

if you don't like bucktommy then you are homophobic because tommy is gay

i did see quite a bit of this argument because a number of people that id been following did get into bucktommy and i do still follow and like these people

i covered most of my feelings about this type of argument above but to reiterate: it is possible to like different ships without making it a morality competition. it's disingenuous and annoying.

especially that brief stint where people were saying that the bucktommy shipname was a slur against gay men. you can just not like it. you can just not like it and have it end there. it's an ugly shipname but you don't have to make it a moral issue.

especially because then buddie shippers pulled out the trump card:

4. the tommy problem

because these people just watched the entire show in like four weeks (again, neutral statement, i did the same fucking thing) they remember tommy from hen and chimney begins. and. okay

i'm not about to be taken out of context here. i watched bp's video when it came out, i think what was said was wrong, i'm not about to say that being racist was like. cool or excusable 20 years ago. i think there is a discussion to be had here about this though. there's a reason i'm typing this out carefully:

i want to say firstly that there IS a conversation to be had about the social landscape in 2005 and especially pre-obama america for the purposes of a bunch of 20 years olds who were not alive or fully conscious yet. people told casually racist jokes (casual in that they are told casually without intent for violence, not that they are not violent. all racism is violence) and there were fewer social ramifications for those racist jokes in 2005. that does not make them Magically Not Racist. they were. it was not okay. it was, however, Extremely Common. does that make it okay? no.

i'm saying that largely because it seems to ME that tim or whoever wrote that particular episode wrote that joke to paint a picture of where the characters are in the story. chimney is not under bobby. he is not being treated with respect. he is 15 years in the past (from when the episode aired. whatever) it is different. it wasn't supposed to matter who said it

(it did matter and it does matter that it's tommy who said it by the way. because that's like. the universe of the show)

(though my theory - and i'm just being stupid for a sec indulge me it's 3am - is that tim and ryan both LOVE writing in guys named tommy. seriously i've been rewatching glee and when i watched 911 i noticed this too that there are so many characters that we never even meet named tommy. abby's ex for one. my theory is that tim wanted to bring in some guy named tommy for buck's awakening and he realized he already had one. lol.)

SECONDLY. sorry that was longwinded. secondly, i am a person who believes that people are capable of change. 20 years is a long time to grow. even as an adult. again, this does not excuse racism, but it is important anyway.

this is all theoretical but i want you to walk with me: it is possible for a 20-30 year old closeted gay white man with a homophobic captain pre-obama to pick up and not experience consequences for inappropriate comments and casual racism and even be seeking out a parent-like validation from someone who encourages it AND THEN, after 20 years wherein he realizes he's gay, comes out of the closet, i believe it is POSSIBLE for him to unpack his internalized racism, apologize, and grow as a person

obviously these are fictional characters but it is important to my fucking philosophy of life that people are capable of change and having empathy or understanding that in fictional characters is so fucking baseline.

it is important that we as a society can agree that someone's behavior, ideology, and/or biases can change. that like. that just HAS to be possible.

caveat #1 that does not mean that any people of color who are fans of the show have to like tommy or even forgive him (or even like. hen and chim lmao it's kind of clear to me that at least hen doesn't) and i am not going to tell them to

caveat #2 i also understand that there is no explicit acknowledgment of this on screen (i think this is because tim forgot which i find funny but like i said. it still matters that it's tommy regardless of intent) and because of that there technically is nothing To forgive

ALL OF THAT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

even if we are assuming that tommy has learned nothing and has not changed at all. the leap from "tommy is/was racist" to "shipping bucktommy or finding tommy interesting Makes You Racist" is heinous to me.

sometimes people like characters who are shitty people. some of you like tony stark. sorry

it's ridiculous to me because there are plenty of other reasons to dislike bucktommy that doesn't like. vilify random people on the internet. he's not even framed as a particularly good boyfriend! we don't even know if they're boyfriends, for one thing!

i've been complaining about buddie shippers for this entire time but i literally am one of you and that's what pisses me off. you threw the first blow in the morality competition and you are bigger - and you KNOW you are bigger because you are proud of the fact - and you are winning.

you are right about a lot of it: tommy isn't a good guy. there is an active racism problem in this fandom. there is a misogyny problem in this fandom. but by and large buddie shippers have been in the game longer and have much larger followings and there is nasty shit i'm seeing which brings me to

5. social media discourse 2 electric boogaloo: twitter edition

twitter is a cesspool in the best of times but i have seen some shit in the past two weeks that makes me never want to write fanfiction for this fandom or even interact with most of the fans ever again. and i'm serious

there is a big buddie fanfic writer who is like. beloved. if you read buddie fanfiction you've read their work for sure. they started writing bucktommy and buddietommy fics around april. and people are being so nasty about them on twitter it is actually fucking embarrassing.

AND LIKE. god. fandom etiquette is so simple.

when i first started reading buddie fanfic the first thing i noticed was how many fics are locked. and i was like "i wonder why that is"

just look at these tweets. i have kept the author's handle here uncensored but please be normal do not bother this person. i'm sure their ao3 comments are hell enough already

what the fuck is your people's problem i'm serious

i'm like actually appalled. this is embarrassing. this isn't even the most embarrassing thing i've seen buddie stans do recently and it is NOT uncommon. it is not small accounts. you guys are the majority. these tweets have hundreds of likes.

i don't give a shit what this person was writing. i actually don't care. their fics are locked. they write for free.

to take someone's fic outside ao3 is considered bad fandom etiquette. to talk about an author where they don't have an account is generally considered bad fandom etiquette. to complain about fanfiction openly is bad fandom etiquette. i don't care if this is y'all's first fandom. in what world are you going to take to twitter and openly complain about someone writing fanfiction for a ship you don't like.

if i were them i would delete all of the buddie fics or never write buddie again i'm so serious. this is so ridiculous.

and this is sort of the nail in the coffin for me, seeing this tweet the other day:

this tweet has over a thousand likes

this is a larger fandom issue as of recent with the use of like. mental health terms as insults but it actually fucking disgusts me!

i looked at mark's twitter. it's pretty clear to me that he's a troll/having fun/provoking people on purpose but on TOP of that his tweets get at most 35 likes. i checked and this tweet got 21 likes. and over a thousand likes calling him schizophrenic. 24 replies doubling down. 25 retweets. 47 quote tweets. 62 bookmarks. over a thousand likes.

and buddie shippers are the good guys

it is ridiculous to me that as a fandom buddie shippers have created a space where it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about fandom misogyny, racism, of homophobia because everyone who disagrees with you is morally opposed to you, and yet it is this side of the fandom with enough traction and support to openly bully and mock these people that you have decided are morally reprehensible.

6. in conclusion i'm sorry i know no one read this

fandom in general post-covid has become less of a community based in sharing creativity and the love of something (and i know this intimately as a kpop stan lol). online spaces in general have become something i don't recognize or want to participate in. which sucks. i've been here for a long time.

i know there's not really any way for that group of like 5 or so tiktokers that complain about tommy ad nauseam to see this or even take it seriously. i know there's not any way for those people on twitter to magically understand fandom etiquette or just block the people they don't want to see.

everyone would be happier if they just. blocked and moved on. i know i would. and i have! in a lot of cases. there's a reason i blocked out the names on those tweets (note: i blocked mark's twitter handle. the person who screenshotted it so he wouldn't be notified and then called them schizophrenic did not. because they do not care) because it's not about THEM it's about the whole fucking thing.

and a lot of these people want to be mad. it's why they're so hung up on tommy. like i'm sorry if any bucktommy fan is still reading this but GOD TOMMY HAS BEEN ON SCREEN FOR LIKE TEN MINUTES TOTAL IN THE ENTIRE SHOW. HE DOESN'T EVEN MATTER. JUST ADMIT THIS IS ABOUT A SHIP WAR. IT ISN'T ABOUT HOW GOOD OF A PERSON YOU ARE OR ANYONE IS. IT'S JUST A SHIP WAR. and they want to be miserable. they want to sit in their little echochamber of morally upright big name fans and they want to provoke bucktommy fans into saying something shitty and they love it because they don't really fucking care about the show.

you know how i know? because tommy is the least important part of chimney begins. that is in the best 3 episodes of this entire television show and none of y'all have anything to say about it. because you're just as obsessed with tommy as they are.

[soubiapologist]

i was friends with this person on twitter for a long time and i was surprised to learn they also liked loveless because RED FLAG especially since they were REALLY into seimei and i was like ??!! and they were like no no i'm normal about it and i was like okay 💗 yay 💗 but they always had like. this weird kind of sardonic vibe about the way they talked about him but i was like oh but they said they're normal about loveless and they seem to have a nuanced view on everything, they just like seimei! :)

anyway one day they blew up my feed with final fantasy incest and not even like The Tragedy Of Incest Incest i mean like Yay Incest Incest

the amount of times i've thought of a funny little story about my dogshit life i could tell and almost posted about it and then got a searing vision of someone responding with "not beating the nisei kinnie allegations" and got really mad about it and decided against it cannot be understated